Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 106876 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2019, 05:08:39 PM »
Whomes conceded that he was in Rettendon that night at 7pm.   He reckons he was helping Nicholls with his car which had broken down. 

He failed to offer up this explanation in any of his police interviews.  It was only once they’d all seen the telephone logs, that they concocted their stories.

I believe Whomes conceded he was in the vicinity of Rettendon on the day/time in question.  This may or may not have been in relation to their dealings with the murdered trio but even it was in relation to the murdered trio does it necessarily mean Whomes was in any way responsible for the murders? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2019, 05:17:48 PM »
Steele found himself in a very difficult situation.  Tates girlfriend, Sarah Saunders, had made a point of arranging a meeting with Steele so that she could warn him of Tates threat to kill him. 

Tate was displaying particularly unpredictable behaviour at this point.  Steele obviously took the threat seriously.

As I said I don't believe SS was Tate's girlfriend at the time of the murders.  What evidence exists showing Tate had threatened to murder Steele and if this was the case what was Tate's motive?  Why would Whomes dirty his hands for Steele to the extent he would get involved with murder knowing if he was caught he was looking at a very long prison sentence? 

It seems Tait was a complete liability but Tucker was at one time a soldier with legitimate business interests at the time; he may have acted as somewhat of a restraining influence on his childhood friend.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2019, 05:19:12 PM »
How many people had mobile phones in 1995?

Which geographic location?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline Caroline

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2019, 07:53:03 PM »
Which geographic location?

From 1996 - 1997 only 16% of households had mobile phones in the whole of the UK

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289167/mobile-phone-penetration-in-the-uk/


Offline Caroline

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2019, 07:55:48 PM »
I believe Whomes conceded he was in the vicinity of Rettendon on the day/time in question.  This may or may not have been in relation to their dealings with the murdered trio but even it was in relation to the murdered trio does it necessarily mean Whomes was in any way responsible for the murders?

If it was in relation to the victims, what reason would he have for not stating so at the time?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2019, 08:31:43 PM »
From 1996 - 1997 only 16% of households had mobile phones in the whole of the UK

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289167/mobile-phone-penetration-in-the-uk/

What's the point you're making?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2019, 08:34:40 PM »
If it was in relation to the victims, what reason would he have for not stating so at the time?

They were all criminals and meets usually involved committing crime.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline Caroline

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2019, 12:39:15 AM »
They were all criminals and meets usually involved committing crime.

Big difference when you're accused of murdering criminal colleagues.

Offline Caroline

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2019, 12:46:36 AM »
What's the point you're making?

The point is that in 1995, mobile phones were no where near as mainstream as they are now so phone mast traffic wouldn't be an issue.  However, as the issue was cleared up by Silka the point is now moot.

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2019, 01:33:40 AM »
As I said I don't believe SS was Tate's girlfriend at the time of the murders.  What evidence exists showing Tate had threatened to murder Steele and if this was the case what was Tate's motive?  Why would Whomes dirty his hands for Steele to the extent he would get involved with murder knowing if he was caught he was looking at a very long prison sentence? 

It seems Tait was a complete liability but Tucker was at one time a soldier with legitimate business interests at the time; he may have acted as somewhat of a restraining influence on his childhood friend.
Tate and Saunders had a volatile, "on off" relationship. 

Records show that Saunders called Tate just a few minutes before the assumed time of death.  They spoke for around 3-4 minutes.  At trial, much was made of this call.  Steele, who was sitting next to Tate in the Range Rover whilst he spoke with Saunders, went on to tell Nicholls about the conversation.  Nicholls was then able to cite this incident in one of his Police interviews, long before he was confronted with the call logs. 

According to Saunders, Tate had threatened "to send Mickey up north".  She told Steele this at a meeting in Chelmsford.

Steele and Whomes had invested a great deal in their smuggling operation.  Tate and Tucker posed a real threat to this.  They were out of control. 



Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2019, 10:00:31 AM »
Big difference when you're accused of murdering criminal colleagues.

We don't know at what stage they were asked about the murders.  They, Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and others were also under investigation for importing large quantities of drugs across the channel which carry the potential for similar penalties as murder:

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2019, 10:23:09 AM »
The point is that in 1995, mobile phones were no where near as mainstream as they are now so phone mast traffic wouldn't be an issue.  However, as the issue was cleared up by Silka the point is now moot.

How many phone masts do you think existed in 1995?  I believe the number of masts grew in response to increase demand for mobile telephony.  In any event what you have is a fixed item ie phone mast and a mobile item ie mobile phone.  A mast can only cope with a certain amount of traffic once it reaches max users are automatically redirected to other masts.  In this case Whomes mobile records showed he made calls to Nicholls as follows:

Each mobile telephone making or receiving a call does so by way of a radio signal, which is routed through one of many local transmitters, commonly called 'cell sites', which provide a general coverage throughout the country. Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation. Both calls were made from Whomes' mobile to Nicholls' mobile on the evening of 6th Dec; both calls were made at 18.59. The first call was made at 18.59.21, the outgoing call was routed through the Ingatestone cell site, this call lasted one second. The second call was at 18.59.32, the outgoing call was routed through the Hockley 3 cell site, this call lasted 4 seconds.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CWorkhouse%20Ln,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.594598%7C51.659120%7CtoNode=0%7CHockley,%20UK%7C%7C0.651664%7C51.607887
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvVdTlA23w&list=RDYpkv0HeUvTc&index=2  @ 22nd Aug '21.

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2019, 10:24:02 AM »
I believe Whomes conceded he was in the vicinity of Rettendon on the day/time in question.  This may or may not have been in relation to their dealings with the murdered trio but even it was in relation to the murdered trio does it necessarily mean Whomes was in any way responsible for the murders?
I do take your point Holly. 

Without Nicholls testimony you are left with a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence, but enough to convict?  I don't think so.

Even having borne in mind Nicholls undoubted history of dishonesty, I still find his account of the importations and murders utterly convincing.  He was able to go into minute detail with his account matching up with call logs, others statements, etc.  Some have inevitably suggested that Nicholls was fed this information by the police.  Even if you believe that, I, feel sure that Nicholls would not have been able to stand up to several days of cross examination. 

It was interesting that the jury believed his account of the murders and importations, whilst disbelieving his story about supplying a weapon to Steele. 

Like many other cases, there is a plethora of mis information to be found about this case.  However, available also are an enormous amount of transcripts taken from dozens of police interviews, statements and the trial itself.  Reading through these will give you your best hope of uncovering the truth. 


Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2019, 10:35:17 AM »
We don't know at what stage they were asked about the murders.  They, Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and others were also under investigation for importing large quantities of drugs across the channel which carry the potential for similar penalties as murder:

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
They were arrested on 13/5/96 in relation to the drug importations.  Steele was further arrested for the murders the following day at 22.45 towards the end of his second interview.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 10:53:24 AM by sika »

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2019, 10:50:34 AM »
We don't know at what stage they were asked about the murders.  They, Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and others were also under investigation for importing large quantities of drugs across the channel which carry the potential for similar penalties as murder:

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
Steele had been convicted in 1985 for smuggling.  He was handed a 9 year sentence.