Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 165779 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #375 on: February 21, 2019, 04:17:59 PM »
Why is this gangland killing so infamous?  Is it the fact that it involved 3 murders ?  That they were caught unaware or what? 

How frequently do gangland killings occur?  How are they carried out, where and why?

If we can look back on past killings it might produce some clues if we can show the Rettendon murders deviate from what normally occurs. 

The only gangland killings that spring to mind are the recent ones here and old 'Goldfinger'.  All of whom were shot at or near their homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #376 on: February 21, 2019, 05:26:05 PM »
Why is this gangland killing so infamous?  Is it the fact that it involved 3 murders ?  That they were caught unaware or what? 

How frequently do gangland killings occur?  How are they carried out, where and why?

If we can look back on past killings it might produce some clues if we can show the Rettendon murders deviate from what normally occurs. 

The only gangland killings that spring to mind are the recent ones here and old 'Goldfinger'.  All of whom were shot at or near their homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/
We don't exist ooop North!... what about the recent killing of Salford's Paul Massey and John Kinsella by the Iceman, now sentenced to a whole life term like fellow Mancunian Stephen Seddon ?  Trust him to rear his ugly mug again!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/murder-paul-massey-how-mr-15641732

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fellows-paul-massey-jail-murder-15691057

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/paul-massey-mr-big-salford-15691678

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #377 on: February 22, 2019, 09:12:24 AM »
Why is this gangland killing so infamous?  Is it the fact that it involved 3 murders ?  That they were caught unaware or what? 

How frequently do gangland killings occur?  How are they carried out, where and why?

If we can look back on past killings it might produce some clues if we can show the Rettendon murders deviate from what normally occurs. 

The only gangland killings that spring to mind are the recent ones here and old 'Goldfinger'.  All of whom were shot at or near their homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/

Good question, I ask myself that question sometimes. Why am I interested?  I think the fact that it started as a bit of a mystery helped it go that way.. perfect story.. 3 villains down a dark, cold and snowy lane blasted whilst sitting in a Range Rover ... the link to the Leah Betts story which was already front page news... The fact that these guys had a colourful background and not like some of the other villains  (in the shadows somewhat).  Then the subsequent supergrass story and the gruesome crime scene photos being available.. I think it's just a mixture of things and the films... I think as time goes by there appears to be more people talking about it than the early years and there's still questions to be asked to this date..

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #378 on: February 22, 2019, 10:29:40 AM »

However if we move on to the police interviewing Sarah Saunders they mislead her about the 18.44 call which they have no evidence for or if they do it appears to have been withheld:

DC NORTON
Then I would urge you that that this is the time and the place to speak your mind and tell us why. The other bit of particular interest from Darren NICHOLLS' evidence is that he will say when Michael STEELE returned to the car having shot Pat, he said to NICHOLLS words to the effect of you can't believe what that silly cow's Sarah's just done, she's phoned Pat on the mobile on the way here. You phoned Pat TATE at 6.44/45 pm on the 6th December, is that correct.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
We believe at that time Michael STEELE was in company with Patrick TATE, and they were driving towards Rettendon and that at approximately 7 o'clock Craig, Pat and Tony were shot dead by Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES (pause) you unfortunately Sarah, phoned Pat (pause) during the last moments of his life (pause). We will show that mobile phones, I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite, and we will show that the phones that evening of Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES were firstly in the area of Brentwood, in the area of Childerditch where they met Pat, Tony and Darren, Pat, Tony and Craig at the Half Way House, they then drove to the Hungry Horse at Rayleigh where Mickey STEELE left his car and got in the back of the car with Pat and that when they left there on the way to Rettendon is when you phoned him (pause). Michael STEELE' s phone was showing as being in the area at the right time, Darren NICHOLLS says that Mickey STEELE was with Pat, Tony and Craig, the beacons show the phones being in the relevant area at the time (pause). Donna JAGGERS will give evidence that they were going to meet Mickey STEELE that night (pause) and I believe that in, if you're to believe, I think at the back of your mind there's a nagging doubt that Michael STEELE killed Pat, Tony and Craig, was there at the time when they were shot dead (pause). Are you alright.




I think what's funny here is DC Norton asking Sarah Saunders if she knows how mobile phones work and then proceeding to explain it completely wrong.. "I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite,"

I don't thing I'm wrong here but no satellites are used in Cell transmissions, certainly not local call connections. He obviously has a loose grasp of this technology and is basically blagging her at this point. His point about connecting to the nearest mast is subjective also. It doesn't work like that for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure also when he mentions beacons whether he means the masts? Mobile phone beacons perform a different function but I'm sure he must mean masts.

Incidentally, there's also another way of tracking by use mobile phone pinging which can be initiated by someone trying to find the location of phone.. this pinging method needs to be done in real time and basically the initiator send a ping message to the phone which doeesn't involve the handset ringing but the phone responds with details of the signal strength relative to the mast.. a number of these are sent which collect data from a number of masts in the area and triangulate the position to give a more accurate location.

This is used real time to track suspects movements and is transparent to the end user. Whether this type of surveillance was being used on any of the interested parties at the time I don't know. But if it was and wasn't considered to put them in the location then obviously it would be withheld.

We know they were under surveillance but did it include phone pinging? The reason I mention this is because DC Norton mentions "beacon" . Whether that is just a slip or a term used for a mast I'm not sure.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #379 on: February 22, 2019, 12:17:33 PM »
I think what's funny here is DC Norton asking Sarah Saunders if she knows how mobile phones work and then proceeding to explain it completely wrong.. "I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite,"

I don't thing I'm wrong here but no satellites are used in Cell transmissions, certainly not local call connections. He obviously has a loose grasp of this technology and is basically blagging her at this point. His point about connecting to the nearest mast is subjective also. It doesn't work like that for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure also when he mentions beacons whether he means the masts? Mobile phone beacons perform a different function but I'm sure he must mean masts.

Incidentally, there's also another way of tracking by use mobile phone pinging which can be initiated by someone trying to find the location of phone.. this pinging method needs to be done in real time and basically the initiator send a ping message to the phone which doeesn't involve the handset ringing but the phone responds with details of the signal strength relative to the mast.. a number of these are sent which collect data from a number of masts in the area and triangulate the position to give a more accurate location.

This is used real time to track suspects movements and is transparent to the end user. Whether this type of surveillance was being used on any of the interested parties at the time I don't know. But if it was and wasn't considered to put them in the location then obviously it would be withheld.

We know they were under surveillance but did it include phone pinging? The reason I mention this is because DC Norton mentions "beacon" . Whether that is just a slip or a term used for a mast I'm not sure.
I think he was probably referring to transmitting masts... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beacon

Differences between cellular and satellite phones...  https://www.getgds.com/resources/blog/cellular-vs-satellite-understanding-the-differences
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #380 on: February 25, 2019, 10:03:25 AM »
We don't exist ooop North!... what about the recent killing of Salford's Paul Massey and John Kinsella by the Iceman, now sentenced to a whole life term like fellow Mancunian Stephen Seddon ?  Trust him to rear his ugly mug again!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/murder-paul-massey-how-mr-15641732

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fellows-paul-massey-jail-murder-15691057

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/paul-massey-mr-big-salford-15691678

Yes I posted a link to the case ooop North but I doubt anyone will bother with films/books etc or that it will find itself entering local folklore in quite the same way as the 'Essex Boys' case has. 

An explanation for this might be because the Essex case involved 3 individuals taken out in 1 hit whereas afaik other cases involve 1 individual per hit.  Eg the cases ooop North involve 2 members of the same gang taken out in 2 separate incidences.

I guess it's the fact the trio were lured to their deaths under some pretence and were caught completely unaware.      3 steroid taking body builders known to have access to firearms, and not averse to using them to further their own ends, all taken out with brutal efficiency in seconds.


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #381 on: February 25, 2019, 10:26:51 AM »
I think what's funny here is DC Norton asking Sarah Saunders if she knows how mobile phones work and then proceeding to explain it completely wrong.. "I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite,"

I don't thing I'm wrong here but no satellites are used in Cell transmissions, certainly not local call connections. He obviously has a loose grasp of this technology and is basically blagging her at this point. His point about connecting to the nearest mast is subjective also. It doesn't work like that for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure also when he mentions beacons whether he means the masts? Mobile phone beacons perform a different function but I'm sure he must mean masts.

Incidentally, there's also another way of tracking by use mobile phone pinging which can be initiated by someone trying to find the location of phone.. this pinging method needs to be done in real time and basically the initiator send a ping message to the phone which doeesn't involve the handset ringing but the phone responds with details of the signal strength relative to the mast.. a number of these are sent which collect data from a number of masts in the area and triangulate the position to give a more accurate location.

This is used real time to track suspects movements and is transparent to the end user. Whether this type of surveillance was being used on any of the interested parties at the time I don't know. But if it was and wasn't considered to put them in the location then obviously it would be withheld.

We know they were under surveillance but did it include phone pinging? The reason I mention this is because DC Norton mentions "beacon" . Whether that is just a slip or a term used for a mast I'm not sure.

Well certainly no satellites involved in this case.  We know this for certain from expert David Bristow(e) who explains how the mobile phones in question receive and transmit phone calls ie essentially radio waves.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240

The cases above from oooop North involve the killer wearing a GPS device which he used for running this would identify his position to within a few metres unlike mobile phone cell data which can only provide data showing the mobile was used within the range of cell masts. 

Yes I've read about the strength of mobile phone signals being used which I think David Bristowe used to some degree in his evidence.

I'm not sure how experts are expected to respond when providing evidence.  Do they simply respond to points put to them by defence counsel or do they seek to look at the bigger picture?  I simply don't understand why all concerned seem to focus on 3 phone calls ie Tate's received call at 18.44 and the calls made/received between Whomes/Nicholls at 18.59. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #382 on: February 25, 2019, 10:38:06 AM »
It seems to me Essex Police seized on the above 3 x calls as it supported their theory.  Anything which contradicted this theory or info they could have sought which may have contradicted this theory was simply ignored or not disclosed.



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #383 on: February 25, 2019, 03:27:46 PM »
JUDGE HIDDEN: We come to the forensic scientist John Burns. He has been a forensic scientist since 1966 and has worked exclusively in that time in examination of firearms since 1977. He works at the laboratory at Huntingdon and is an (inaudible) chemist. He did a threefold examination: the scene first, then the garage at South Woodham Ferrers police station and then the post-mortem. The scene is shown in photograph 7 of two that you have seen already and in 7(a) which was the corrected sketch which I asked you to look at just now. He examined the scene with Inspector Hughes and Dr Lannas who you remember was the lady pathologist who attended who I will remind you of in a moment.

The Range Rover was at the end of the farm track, as Mr Burns described it, it was fringed by bushes and small trees. Blood had dripped from the vehicle particularly on the nearside and run downwards in puddles of water towards the farm gate. There were five 12-bore cartridges on the ground by the vehicle - one near the front off-side wheel, two some three feet from the vehicle's mid-point on the off-side and two in the region of the nearside rear corner. So that is the position which is in fact shown on Exhibit 7 (a) which I am just holding up so you can see it. The dots are there. The three deceased were in the positions that he described. The rear nearside window of the door had the rear portion fallen out. The vehicle was taken to the police garage for further examination. Removal of the bodies revealed they had all three suffered head injuries consistent with being caused by a shotgun. Those are the head injuries that he mentioned, the further shotgun wound observed in the right side of Tate's torso. He spoke of blood splattering on the inside of the vehicle and of close range shotgun damage from within 2 feet, he put it, caused to the front off-side edge of the driver's head rest. You remember seeing that in a photograph. It was consistent, that damage, with the pellets continuing on their course and causing injury to the driver, Rolfe's, head or face. There were two fired shotgun cases in the vehicle - one on the floor near the rear off-side door, and the other in the front off-side door pocket. You saw a photograph of a little earlier.

There were fragments of plastic cartridge wadding present and several pellets in various areas of the front of the vehicle. He spoke of the gun shot wounds to each of the passengers saying those to Tucker were at close range from 18 inches to 2 foot 6. The cartridge cases all came from seven 12-bore vantage cartridges with a loading of seven and a half size shot lead shot. Then importantly he examined the firing marks on all of those cartridges microscopically and was satisfied that all seven were fired using the same firearm which he said was almost certainly a pump-action or self- loading 12-bore shotgun. The wads and pieces of wadding were derived from 7 plastic wads of the type that is loaded into 12 bore vantage shotgun cartridges and thus could have emanated from those 7 cases.

The sample of hair from Tate, the back seat passenger, indicated that the shot which caused the injury to his head, the actual injury, had actually passed through glass prior to causing the injury. The only broken glass was of course on the nearside.

He concluded that 8 shots from a 12-bore shotgun appeared to have been fired at the scene: 2 into the right hand side of Tucker, the front passenger, 1 into the back of his head; 2 into the right side of the head and face of Rolfe, the driver; and 3 at the rear passenger Tate - 1 into the right torso, 1 across back of the head and 1 into the left side of the head. He thought that most of the shots appeared to have been fired from close range through the open rear off-side door of the vehicle. One of the shots to the head and face of Rolfe having first passed through the right hand corner of the driver's head rest as you see in the photograph. The shot fired across the head of Tate appeared to have passed through the glass on the rear nearside door. The shot into his head appeared to be fired from the nearside of the vehicle through the same glass. The angle of the shot into his right torso suggested that he was in a position similar to where he was found when the shot was fired. All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel. It was not possible to state with any certainty what order the shots were fired in, but then he made an assumption -- not particularly scientific you may think, and he said that later -- it was a reasonable assumption that one shot was fired at each victim in turn before the other shots were fired. He said from the relaxed positions of the deceased three it appeared to have happened very rapidly. There was not time for special movement or something to move them from their comfortable positions. He told you a bit more about the positions later on.

Then he moved to tell you about how a shotgun is fired. Some of you may have known already and some may not. He said a shotgun cartridge is fired by the bottom half inch of the cartridge containing the propellant and the base being fitted with a primer in the centre which was of soft metal. If the primer was struck a very sharp blow the chemicals ignite and those chemicals in the primer ignite the main propellant. It is the firing pin that causes the sharp blow. Different weapons leave different marks. The pump action has a single barrel with a magazine below it and a wooden (inaudible). The mechanism of an ordinary shotgun as opposed to a self-loading or pump was that you loaded a cartridge from a magazine into the chamber by pulling to the rear and then back to the front. The self-loading was very similar but this time with a tubular magazine. He said in this case of a self loading gun or a pump gun the energy from the discharge was used to transfer the cartridge into the chamber - one was ejected and one was transferred.

As to the ejection of a cartridge in each case he said for a pump-action you get quite a variable distance. That is a variable distance on how far the ejected case is thrown. The longest being between 5 and 6 feet, but sometimes the cartridge would just drop out of the gun. In the self-loading gun there would be a little difference but there is a tendency for the cartridges to eject somewhat further.

As to the damage to Tate's head he said he thought the offside shot struck Tate's head first before striking the window, but the other nearside shot into the head was fired through some of the glass in the window.

Then he moved entirely from everything he had been saying before, and I cannot make that distinction more clear, onto the shotgun found at Meadow Cottage, Exhibit 1O3. He said that was a Mossberg New Haven 600 18, 12-bore pump-action shotgun in working order subject to the requirements of Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968. You have heard the admission that it is a firearm governed by the Act.

Cross-examined by Mr Parkins Mr Burn said this: he agreed that a defence expert, a doctor at Remshore, was experienced in the field of firearms and had attended at Mr Burn's laboratory on 19th August 1997 being afforded all facilities there, and there was nothing between the two experts except for one or two details. Having heard anything about those details they clearly are not important. Mr Burns said that whoever carried out the killing it was a reasonable assumption that they were well versed in the use of such a shotgun. It happened very quickly, probably so quickly the two in front did not have time to appreciate what was going on. The suggestion he had made that each deceased received a disabling shot before the other shot was his opinion based on the findings of the scene. There would be a very loud noise and a total of 8 shots. He would expect a rapid succession and anyone hearing the shots would hear a quick succession of discharges. They could be heard for a distance certainly greater than a mile. Whether someone would hear any whimpering would depend on how quickly the shots came. There would be a gap between the shots.

He had arrived at the scene at five minutes to midday. He went into the field and there was some tyre marks which had led through the gate at some time, but all he could say was there was some tyre marks there. He never saw a spent cartridge in the position on the nearside in diagram 7. He turned to diagram 7(a), the diagram that Mr Bettis had remarked from Mr Hughes' diagram, and he said 7 (a) was in general the position where he himself had found the cases. There was a foot mark visible possibly at the open door. Most shots were discharged from the rear off-side door. Hughes' diagram correctly shows Tate's position. Rolfe had a wound at the side of his face. Then he was asked about the possibility of Tate's head being turned to his right and he said this: Mr Burns could not exclude that Tate's head was turned to the right as the shot was fired and he tended to support the view that his head was somewhat to the right. He was asked about the grazes on Tate's head and he said this: he did not think he could entirely exclude the possibility that that round then went on to hurt Tucker, but having said that he said (although he could not entirely exclude the possibility) the three injuries to the head of Tucker did not show any dispersion of elements which he would expect if one shot had first gone across Tate's head, nor any deposits of blood and hair which he would expect. He said, "It is less likely, but I cannot exclude it." A pump-action gun ejects to the right.

He conducted an examination with scenes of crime officers who were present both before, during and after the removal of the bodies. Somebody had found a cartridge case in the floor well. He considered how it was found there. He excluded the shot from the nearside as getting there because that was very unlikely. If it ejected normally he could not explain the two cartridges found in the car. Hughes cannot agree entirely with the deposit of cartridges. He would normally only expect one cartridge case at the nearside. The angle of discharge to the right varies, and it just failed to go out through the opened rear door and fell into the front door pocket. He said if the gun is sufficiently far into the car the cartridge case would end up in the vehicle.

Turning to a different topic he said the seven and a half size is popular in clay pigeon shooting. He had examined a number of other weapons that had been brought in, several shot guns, none of which fired those cartridges. He examined a revolver and ammunition found at Tate's home address at Gordon Road, Basildon. The revolver was in working order and well capable of firing ammunition. There was also a machine gun from an address at Mill Green (?) Basildon -- you will remember that is the one in connection with Donna Evans that we shall hear about later -- and other weapons which he mentioned having examined. None of those other guns had fired the cartridges he examined.

He was at the post-mortem which was full and comprehensive. He was asked about the time of death. Again he did not come to getting any evidence of it. He said his own explanation would not indicate the time of death conclusively.

He would expect it to be the invariable practice for doctors to attempt to estimate the time of death. Tucker had 3 fatal wounds; Rolfe 2, certainly 1, maybe 2; and Tate 2 fatal wounds and 1 superficial. He could not discount the possibility that one of Tate's wounds went on after hitting him to hit Tucker. All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

In re-examination he said there was no way for him to distinguish from the wounds themselves whether a long barrel or a short barrelled gun was used. That was being asked about wounds themselves could you tell, he had of course already said that the likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired (inaudible) suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

He said the car door would be open when the majority of the shots were fired and the door would be an obstruction to the right. But the shot that grazed Tate's head to have gone on to hit Tucker, Tate's head would have had to be between the open door and Tucker. If a shot strikes a glancing blow the pellets would be disrupted. At close range the body of the shot goes in the same direction. If there is a glancing impact the pellet ceased to remain as a closed mass and become disturbed and there is no sign in the wound to Tucker of that. There is nothing to indicate any material from Tate's head in relation to what was found in Tucker's head. So that was his evidence in relation to the ballistics of wounds and the shots fired in and about in, that is the Range Rover. The cartridge case is found in and about the Range Rover.

Re the following from the above:

There was also a machine gun from an address at Mill Green (?) Basildon -- you will remember that is the one in connection with Donna Evans that we shall hear about later -

Who was/is Donna Evans?  In O'Mahoney' books he refers to Rolfe's partner, Donna Jaggers, as Dianne Evans? 

Are Donna Evans, Diane Evans and Donna Jaggers one and the same?  If not how are Donna Evans and Diane Evans relevant to the case?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #384 on: February 27, 2019, 09:49:56 AM »
I've taken the following from another forum.  In answer to the question at the bottom my response is 'How can anyone believe Steele and Whomes are guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'?

Post from another forum where poster believes Steele and Whomes guilty as charged:

I have read through Jack Whome's questioning under caution. When asked what he done on the night in question his reply was simply "I have never been to Rettendon". This is a lie, phone records show not only has he been to Rettendon but he was there on the night of the murders.

What is the point of scrutinising the cell tower evidence when its not even Whomes original account? He never took the stand and never testified being at the Wheatsheaf pub in Rettedon. It was an argument the defence concocted to try and explain their clients close proximity to the murders when it took place.

If you look at the map. The SOC and the Wheatsheaf are almost parallel in relation to the Hockley cell tower. If Whomes walked or ran 100 or so feet into the field infront of the SOC to get a better signal he would literally be parallel with the Wheatsheaf. All in a place he claims he as never been!

https://i.ibb.co/ncmWNrL/rodbrmte1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/JzJppZ5/rodbrmte2.jpg


"DS WILLS: Right okay I accept that Jack and I have listened to what you say (pause). We have got a duty to ask you these questions Jack and this Caution is as much for us as it is for you alright and it says that you do not have to say anything, you don't. It also says that if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in Court it may harm your defence, now if you're not questioned then you don't get the opportunity to either mention it or not to mention it which has implications with both of us, that's why we ask the questions and I accept what you say you say to me I know nothing about I was not involved in these murders. We then ask you were you in Rettendon on the 061295 and I haven't had an answer yet (pause).

Jack WHOMES: I think I've said my piece

DS WILLS: I'm not take I don't take that as an answer to the question that's a saying you think you've said your piece

Jack WHOMES: Well I'm sorry it's best I don't answer

DS WILLS: Okay it's best you don't answer that's what you said (pause) why's that (Pause)

Paul ROACH: I'll remind you of my clients answer. When you said to him have you been to Rettendon he said no.

DS WILLS: I'm sorry is that correct Jack that you hadn't been to Rettendon

Paul ROACH: Been to Rettendon - No and also as far as

DS WILLS: I'm sorry you're answering the question, if you're saying that's what your client said, now I ask him to confirm that

Paul ROACH: No no

DS WILLS: Cause I didn't hear that

Paul ROACH: No he did say: have you been to Rettendon, he answered no

Jack WHOMES: I will clear it for you

Paul ROACH: Please

DS WILLS: I have to ask the question again cause it's getting confusing. Have you ever or were you in 061295 did you go to Rettendon at all

Jack WHOMES: I have never been to Rettendon

DS WILLS: Right "

And so, the victims told people they were going to rettendon with Mickey Steele that night. They were all found dead par Mickey Steele. When Steele and his close associates were first questioned on the matter.

Steele: "No commnet"
Nicholls: "No comment"
Whomes: "I have never been to Rettendon"

How can anyone believe the above three are innocent?


My response:

At what stage during police interviews was it put to Nicholls/Steele/Whomes they were in the frame for murder?  No one is suggesting they were law abiding citizens.  They most definitely were not having all served custodial sentences for previous crimes.  At the time of the murders they were all part of gang involved in organised crime namely the importation and distribution of cannabis.  They were known to visit the area to complete drug deals with the murdered trio.  If on the night of the murders they were in the area to complete drug deals with the murdered trio and/or others they were unlikely to fess up as to why they were in the area.  Being in the area does not necessarily equate to their involvement with the murders.  Indeed the mobile phone cell data would seem to exonerate them:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512241#msg512241

The expert concluded:

2.7. I have subsequently had the opportunity to examine a transcript of that part of the summing-up by Mr Justice Hidden which dealt with the telephone evidence. Whilst the Judge's summing up is generally in accordance with what I remember of my evidence it did not, in my view, convey the points which I had hoped to put over, namely that my interpretation of the evidence of the call detail records for December 6th 1995 was that:-

(a) if Jack Whomes 'phone had been used in Retterndon at 18:59, it might have been used at the Wheatsheaf but it is very unlikely that it was used in Workhouse Lane.

(b) if Michael Steel's 'phone was used in the vicinity of the Childerditch cell site at 18:03 and 18:09 it might have been used close to Bulphan, but it is unlikely that it was used at the Halfway House.

(c) Darren Nicholls statement of his whereabouts at 18:59 was unlikely to be correct.

However what is missing is mobile cell phone data for Tate's call he received from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 placing his mobile in the vicinity of Rettendon along with cell data from all other calls made/received by murdered trio along with Nicholls/Steele/Whomes.  Why did the police investigation and prosecution centre around 3 calls only of which we only have half the data for 1 of these calls ie where was Tate's mobile at 18.44? 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 09:53:54 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #385 on: February 27, 2019, 10:21:41 AM »
And if as the police claim the victims told witnesses they were going to meet with Steele on the night of the murders why did it take the police over 5 months to arrest Steele?  During which time he carried out two further importations of cannabis via his RIB.

Who were these witnesses?  Nicholls a convicted criminal who was caught red-handed with his car boot filled with cannabis and Donna Jaggers who seemed only too happy to support her partner's life of crime.  Jaggers  accompanied Rolfe on drug deals and to procure a machine gun where Rolfe apparently told her he was pleased with the machine gun and the damage it could do!  These are not reliable witnesses.  They are witnesses who wanted to ingratiate themselves with the police to avoid the full force of the law for their involvement in very serious crimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhZliTsFG5Y

IMO the guy who narrates these vids seems to take too much at face value eg Donna Jaggers didn't know what to do with the machine gun post murders so handed it in to the police.  How do we know Donna Jaggers contacted the police and handed the gun over?  It's possible the police were able to link Jaggers with the gun in some way eg others who said her and Rolfe placed it in the loft of the property and/or her fingerprints were on it.  Who owned this property and had access to it?

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #386 on: February 27, 2019, 10:48:38 AM »
And if as the police claim the victims told witnesses they were going to meet with Steele on the night of the murders why did it take the police over 5 months to arrest Steele?  During which time he carried out two further importations of cannabis via his RIB.

Who were these witnesses?  Nicholls a convicted criminal who was caught red-handed with his car boot filled with cannabis and Donna Jaggers who seemed only too happy to support her partner's life of crime.  Jaggers  accompanied Rolfe on drug deals and to procure a machine gun where Rolfe apparently told her he was pleased with the machine gun and the damage it could do!  These are not reliable witnesses.  They are witnesses who wanted to ingratiate themselves with the police to avoid the full force of the law for their involvement in very serious crimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhZliTsFG5Y

IMO the guy who narrates these vids seems to take too much at face value eg Donna Jaggers didn't know what to do with the machine gun post murders so handed it in to the police.  How do we know Donna Jaggers contacted the police and handed the gun over?  It's possible the police were able to link Jaggers with the gun in some way eg others who said her and Rolfe placed it in the loft of the property and/or her fingerprints were on it.  Who owned this property and had access to it?

Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #387 on: February 27, 2019, 11:06:15 AM »
Holly,

What's your view of why the other interesting Phone data was not made available.. we know from discussion that there was a lot more phone activity going on and if the theory is correct it could make the case against the two men unsafe.  What puzzles me is how this works in court... from what I've read it looks like the prosecution have possibly cherry picked the data they want that looks at first glance to put the two men in the frame but ignores other possible evidence that could be contrary this. I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is, can you only work with the evidence you have, supplied by the police or can you go and get your own evidence... I'm thinking this is possibly a dumb question but I have to ask it as I'm unsure why the defence never looked at all the other phone data?  thanks

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #388 on: February 27, 2019, 11:19:55 AM »
Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Ok fair enough  8((()*/

I don't find DJ's WS's at all reliable.  Eg the stat above states she gave Rolfe an ultimatum about his drug habit and yet appears to condone the procuring of a machine gun whereby she is happy to listen to Rolfe say how  happy he was with it and the damage it could cause! 

I've not seen the above before and only read it quickly so will need to read again. 

Given it seems Tucker was the leader why do we not hear more from his girlfriend, Anna Whitehead, about what he was up to? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #389 on: February 27, 2019, 11:29:37 AM »
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE: