Author Topic: A reasonable viewpoint  (Read 3083 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2021, 02:50:53 PM »
I think you can work out which bits can be relied on. Inventing possible witnesses to support a story is a bit of a desperate move imo.

Who "INVENTED" possible witnesses.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2021, 02:56:29 PM »
I think you can work out which bits can be relied on. Inventing possible witnesses to support a story is a bit of a desperate move imo.
Who invented possible witnesses and what is your evidence for making this claim?
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2021, 03:03:44 PM »
Who "INVENTED" possible witnesses.
Moreover, to what end?  I assume G-Unit js claiming the media manufactured a witness or witnesses to a couple of so-called German-speaking men, the question is why they would bother?  Itís hardly going to help them sell more papers being a fairly unsensational detail, is it therefore because all journalists are congenital liars and simply have to make up such details to satisfy their lust for deception?  If youíre going to make up a story though why not make it a really good one, like ďI saw Gerry stuffing a heavy bag of rubbish in a bin on the night of May 3rd says mystery witness.Ē
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline G-Unit

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2021, 05:42:18 PM »
Moreover, to what end?  I assume G-Unit js claiming the media manufactured a witness or witnesses to a couple of so-called German-speaking men, the question is why they would bother?  Itís hardly going to help them sell more papers being a fairly unsensational detail, is it therefore because all journalists are congenital liars and simply have to make up such details to satisfy their lust for deception?  If youíre going to make up a story though why not make it a really good one, like ďI saw Gerry stuffing a heavy bag of rubbish in a bin on the night of May 3rd says mystery witness.Ē

In the Crimewatch 2013 programme they said;

"On the day Madeleine disappeared, two men were seen on the balcony of a nearby empty apartment, believed to be 5C, two doors down from the McCanns."
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/crimewatch-2013-in-simple-english/

Jayne Jensen said;

"Jayne Jensen and Annie Wiltshire told how they saw two blond men in their 30s, standing on the balcony of an empty apartment only a couple of doors away from the McCanns' flat in Praia da Luz."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504950/British-witnesses-We-saw-blond-men-balcony-Madeleine-apartment.html

So where did German-speaking come from?
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Offline Brietta

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2021, 06:53:34 PM »
In the Crimewatch 2013 programme they said;

"On the day Madeleine disappeared, two men were seen on the balcony of a nearby empty apartment, believed to be 5C, two doors down from the McCanns."
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/crimewatch-2013-in-simple-english/

Jayne Jensen said;

"Jayne Jensen and Annie Wiltshire told how they saw two blond men in their 30s, standing on the balcony of an empty apartment only a couple of doors away from the McCanns' flat in Praia da Luz."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504950/British-witnesses-We-saw-blond-men-balcony-Madeleine-apartment.html

So where did German-speaking come from?

I think the problem you may be having is the supposition that everything said and done in 2007 was preserved in aspic and never subject to change.

Your mind is not open to the fact that there were continuing investigations after the Portuguese botched one and the one in which they gave up on Madeleine long before it was appropriate to do so; along with those investigations came changes in attitudes and additional information.

Madeleine's parents had to be the driving force behind this because no one else was bothering.

Real change came about when Scotland Yard adopted Madeleine's case.  Again due to Madeleine's parent's persistence and in the teeth of every obstacle sceptics like you could dream up to impede that progress and process.

By 2013 a lot more was known than was the case in 2007 and what was known brought Kate, Gerry and DCI Redwood to appear in appeals in Dutch and German television programmes.

Which brings us to 2020 and information which has been years in coming together.

Christian Hoppe from the BKA was a guest on this German Crime Programme in 2020.


In 2013, Maddie McCann's parents were guests of file number xy.

The ultimate suspicion goes back to a past consignment, file number xy , according to which there were references to the accused.

As early as 2013, references to the man had already been received, said Christian Hoppe.

Even after a report ten years after the girl's disappearance, there were indications.

In the meantime, the suspicion of suspicion has been well founded, but there is no solid evidence in addition to the evidence to convince the 30-year-old at the time of the crime.

Therefore, the BKA is now addressing the population.

Maddie McCann / Case number XY: BKA asks for help


https://newsrnd.com/news/2020-06-05-spectacular-turn-in-the-maddie-case--german-(43)-suspected-of-murder---bka-asks-for-information-on-these-traces-nbsp-.r1tvSMdhL.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2021, 07:10:57 PM »
In the Crimewatch 2013 programme they said;

"On the day Madeleine disappeared, two men were seen on the balcony of a nearby empty apartment, believed to be 5C, two doors down from the McCanns."
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/crimewatch-2013-in-simple-english/

Jayne Jensen said;

"Jayne Jensen and Annie Wiltshire told how they saw two blond men in their 30s, standing on the balcony of an empty apartment only a couple of doors away from the McCanns' flat in Praia da Luz."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504950/British-witnesses-We-saw-blond-men-balcony-Madeleine-apartment.html

So where did German-speaking come from?
Well it must have come from somewhere unless you seriously believe the journalist just plucked that detail from thin air for shits and giggles?
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Offline G-Unit

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2021, 08:08:54 PM »
Well it must have come from somewhere unless you seriously believe the journalist just plucked that detail from thin air for shits and giggles?

I have no idea, but it doesn't appear to have come from the witnesses or the police. By all means believe what you read in the papers, but I don't accept what they say without a direct quote or some other evidence. It wouldn't be the first or last time that incorrect information was printed.




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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2021, 08:22:08 PM »
I have no idea, but it doesn't appear to have come from the witnesses or the police. By all means believe what you read in the papers, but I don't accept what they say without a direct quote or some other evidence. It wouldn't be the first or last time that incorrect information was printed.
Just because the report doesnít explicitly state who said the men appeared to be German-speaking doesnít mean it must automatically be disbelieved.  There are news reports every day filled with information gleaned by journalists who donít find it necessary to name every single source or explain exactly how they came by the information.  Journalists by and large have a reputation to uphold and that reputation is made or broken on how truthful, accurate and responsible is their reporting.  One has to be exert a modicum of commonsense sometimes and consider why a journalist would invent such a relatively minor detail.  It seems highly unlikely that they would simply make it up so I exercise the benefit of the doubt and accept it was reported in good faith. 
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Online Eleanor

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2021, 08:27:36 PM »
None of this actually matters and won't convict anyone.  Just in case some of you hadn't noticed.  It is all just an exercise in personal opinion, given the rules of Free Speach.  Which happen to carry responsibilities, should some of you have forgotten that.

But it is so nice to see that the level of spoken English has vastly improved of late, mainly down to Brietta, who has taught me a thing or two.  Although I doubt that she realises.  She just does.  As so should the rest of us.

If we can't slag off someone in half decent English then we might as well not bother.

Offline G-Unit

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2021, 09:20:38 PM »
Just because the report doesnít explicitly state who said the men appeared to be German-speaking doesnít mean it must automatically be disbelieved.  There are news reports every day filled with information gleaned by journalists who donít find it necessary to name every single source or explain exactly how they came by the information.  Journalists by and large have a reputation to uphold and that reputation is made or broken on how truthful, accurate and responsible is their reporting.  One has to be exert a modicum of commonsense sometimes and consider why a journalist would invent such a relatively minor detail.  It seems highly unlikely that they would simply make it up so I exercise the benefit of the doubt and accept it was reported in good faith.

If there weren't so many examples of incorrect reporting in this case you might be justified, but the press have a terrible track record. For example;

"Kate and Gerry McCann are in a legal battle with Amaral at the European Court of Human Rights over the smears.

The McCanns have gone to the ECHR in a final effort to avoid paying Amaral £750,000 in compensation after accusing him of libel - which saw sales of his book banned for six years."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2751442/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry/

Untrue!



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Online Eleanor

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2021, 09:38:30 PM »
If there weren't so many examples of incorrect reporting in this case you might be justified, but the press have a terrible track record. For example;

"Kate and Gerry McCann are in a legal battle with Amaral at the European Court of Human Rights over the smears.

The McCanns have gone to the ECHR in a final effort to avoid paying Amaral £750,000 in compensation after accusing him of libel - which saw sales of his book banned for six years."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2751442/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry/

Untrue!

So what is true then?

Offline jassi

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2021, 09:43:57 PM »
So what is true then?

Whatever you choose to be true  ?{)(**
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Online Eleanor

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2021, 10:17:46 PM »
Whatever you choose to be true  ?{)(**

Take that to Court.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2021, 10:40:58 PM »
If there weren't so many examples of incorrect reporting in this case you might be justified, but the press have a terrible track record. For example;

"Kate and Gerry McCann are in a legal battle with Amaral at the European Court of Human Rights over the smears.

The McCanns have gone to the ECHR in a final effort to avoid paying Amaral £750,000 in compensation after accusing him of libel - which saw sales of his book banned for six years."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2751442/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry/

Untrue!
These are just sloppy interpretations  of the facts which arenít exactly false either.  Kate and Gerry are in a legal battle regarding Portugalís judgement on Amaralís smears.  What exactly is the situation wrt to paying Amaralís compensation and legal fees then? 

And here we go off on another tangent.  This thread really should be re-named The Scepticís Shopping Trolley as it bashes from one aisle of tedious cheap crap to the other.
I no longer read nor reply to posts made by those posters I perceive to be WUMS and TROLLS so if you think I'm ignoring you this may be the reason.  Best wishes.

Online Eleanor

Re: A reasonable viewpoint
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2021, 11:14:55 PM »

Amaral did Libel The McCanns and on several occasions since he was totally unable to prove that he was right.  And I don't care beyond that.

Whether or not this has anything to do with The ECHR and Portugal is of no importance to me.  It was Amaral who impugned The McCanns.

However, I very much doubt that The ECHR has the time or the patience to read it all, or to even care about individuals.  This is simply a matter of Law and not actually to do with people.

I suspect that The McCanns will lose, but only because Freedom of Speech appears to be more important at the moment.

This won't necessarily be a good thing.  But it won't convict The McCanns.