Author Topic: The less talked about sighting on N’battle Rd by M O’Sullivan & D Hamilton...  (Read 34575 times)

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Offline Nicholas

And we have his time with the boys. Which was remarkably shorter than usual. LM claimed to be home by 9pm, his mother claimed he was home by then. Therefore LM had left the boys much earlier than this time - being in their actual company for around an hour. That he was looking more kempt than his usual, scruffy, manky self. And he had been smoking dope. And Jodi had ingested cannabis - and that LM was the person with whom she would usually be smoking this with. And contrary to both LM and his mothers claims - LM was seen arriving home around 10pm.


Luke Mitchell was apparently out of the house when he received the first text message from JuJ - so where had he been at 10.39/41pm when this text was received?

He claimed to have been watching TV

So what was he doing out of the house at this time ?

He couldn’t have been walking the dog from 10.00pm to 10.39/41pm because Corinne made claim to James English he was only gone for about 5 minutes 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 11:58:44 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Parky41

And to further clarity what I had stated before. Of clear reasons as to why the police were suspicious of LM. That one such area was this contrast in statements. That they were far from being in harmony with that of LM's. That whilst this search trio may have mentioned actions of this dog at this V break, it was LM who was using alert, led to and air sniffing. That his account, his scenario was that his dog had alerted him, pretty much to where Jodi actually lay. That this search trio had given details of his actions upon entering this woodland at this V break. And also that he had looked into the woodland, prior to this at the Gino spot.

That the simplest route, if there had in fact been harmony with LM's account would be showing exactly what this search trio had said, in sequence, in their scenario of what had happened. This has not been shown, for it can not be shown - as they were not saying the same thing as LM, at all.

And this was pretty much the case with that  entire evening. We had LM claiming he was at home, that Jodi was coming to his after his dinner, around 6pm. We had Jodi's mother saying that Jodi had left home much earlier than this. That she did not know she was getting out earlier until her arrival home from school. That Jodi had told her mother, that they (LM and Jodi) would be "mucking around up here". That there had been that exchange of texts, that only LM would have known that Jodi was getting out earlier. She had not contacted anyone else. We have LM who is claiming he was simply waiting around for Jodi to arrive, of walking this path to meet with him. We have Jodi's mother saying that Jodi was not supposed to walk this path alone. We have LM saying he had left home around 5.45pm to meet with Jodi for 6pm. We have Jodi's parents saying LM had phoned, and we have LM saying he made this call from the Abbey entrance, which put him leaving home around 5.30pm for this meet at 6pm. We have this short time of waiting for her, walking this path alone, and it's isolation - to being from around 5.30pm until he was in the company of the boys around 7.30pm. We have LM being told that Jodi had already left to meet him. We have LM saying "she is not coming out" "thought maybe she had dumped me" and "I thought you had grounded her"  We have LM not phoning back when she did not arrive after that long period of time, and we have LM phoning the boys back when they were slightly late.

We already know the ever changing scenario of the alibi. - That there was this relaxed, very detailed dinner account, that had CM home around five past five. We have SM changing his story to fit exactly in with this, of his mother arriving home around five past five. Of speaking with his mother, of waiting around ten mins until dinner was ready and so forth. Which changed to CM being home no earlier than 5.15pm. Of LM leaving home for 5.30pm rather than 5.45pm. Of SM then having to leave earlier than LM, for he did not see his brother on his way out of the estate or at the estate entrance. So every fine detail of this relaxed dinner tale, it's change, had to fit very neatly into less than 15mins. And we know that the dinner was claimed not to ready, further cooking had to be done. Then of course we have the porn, and of listening out for anyone at home. That SM had, as the police knew, had been correct in his first statement and of his testimony in court - that he did not see his brother Luke that day around dinner time at all. - LM was not at home.

And we have his time with the boys. Which was remarkably shorter than usual. LM claimed to be home by 9pm, his mother claimed he was home by then. Therefore LM had left the boys much earlier than this time - being in their actual company for around an hour. That he was looking more kempt than his usual, scruffy, manky self. And he had been smoking dope. And Jodi had ingested cannabis - and that LM was the person with whom she would usually be smoking this with. And contrary to both LM and his mothers claims - LM was seen arriving home around 10pm.

And there was a fire going in the Mitchell garden that evening, evidence of this at different intervals. LM did carry knives, a lot. And there is still a missing knife. There is still a missing jacket - and coincidently, both the new knife and jacket bought - were replicas of the missing items. And there was both a sighting by AB and F&W who ID LM. And these sightings did coincide with the time Jodi left to meet with LM. And they were, at either end of RDP. The Easthouse's end and the Newbattle end - and in the middle, is where this poor girl met sadly met her end.  And there were noises heard by LK from behind this wall around 5.15pm.

And we do hear of all these scenarios of what one feels this girls family should have been doing? "armed with this knowledge of being up here" - Which we can see clearly, has neither time nor room for thought in the slightest, to fit into this 50mins. That the only thing that was prominent in this period of time - was that Jodi was missing, her boyfriend was telling her mother that she failed to turn up, turn up in Newbattle. That he did offer to search, that he would look on the this path. That it was him that introduced this path into their thought process. That she had barely been reported missing and he is on this path. That the police then attended at Jodi's house, that they had barely stepped out the door - and bang, Jodi is found dead. And she was found by LM within this very short period of time. (10mins) That he did introduce the woodland in to the search at the first break. Then upon reaching the next break, the accessible one - LM entered this woodland, that he had taken around 10-15 steps in line with the search trio, on the path side - and he shouted out. 


And we know he gave testimony to this red hair bobble, the tree, the socks and the clothing - we know Jodi had changed. That she did wear school colours. We do hear each and every extraordinary reasoning for this. Of reporters and the police letting him know. Of items being moved around and bodies being "rolled".

We have to this point discussed those irrelevant phone calls and the such - which have given room to some pretty extraordinary assumptions. Of attempting to tie LM's version of what happened in this search with that of Jodi's family. Of Ignoring the testimony he gave to bring him back to this V - rather than where he clearly stated, in which he was, without a shadow of a doubt lying. He never claimed to be at this V whilst the search trio always had. Now we move onto the meet. Of Ms Lean attempting to tie the search trio in with LM's version of events. That he had been on/at this path by 10.59pm. That it takes on average around 11mins to walk this path. Therefore she attempts to bring the search trio onto this path by this time. Thus stating they could not have left Mayfield around 11.05pm when JuJ had phoned her mothers landline. And of confusion as to when AW knew that Judith had phoned the police, and of letting her mother know that LM was on RDP. And of this search trio being in the complex at 11.18pm. And of them heading to meet with LM on RDP. What is prominent in what I am going to put up from Ms Lean - is 6mins by her timings that would take the call to the emergency services up to 11.40pm, rather than when it was made at 11.34pm. And of that use of phone logs not tying with the witness accounts - Which has her stating that they were being dishonest - I know, pretty dam ironic is it not?

The straightforward version - Jodi is missing. The police are phoned. Judith speaks with them, with her mother and with LM. The last conversation with LM is 10.59pm he is on/at RDP. AW's landline is phoned at 11.04pm. - The search trio who are ready to leave, to head out to search. Leave Mayfield. There is a further logged call given from the defence papers - of the search trio, of heading from this complex. A call that is relevant to them heading to meet with LM on RDP. As is the one just after 11pm - when they know LM is at this path and on it. AW knows which path he means. It is not simply down to that she knows which path Jodi would have used, it is down to LM being on this path. The path that connects Easthouses to Newbattle. Firstly from this 11.18pm conversation in the complex backwards from the call to the emergency services.

From going over the V and walking this 10-15 ft no more - it takes mere seconds. Ms Lean gives the search party a full two minutes each. LM, SK and AW. LM goes over, JaJ and SK walk this 10-15ft. And run back. This is well under a minute. As with SK. Well under a minute. The only one who takes longer is AW. She needs a helping hand over. And she goes the full 44ft. Contrary to the arms and legs added - AW wants to go close to check for sure that it is Jodi. And it is around this time the call is made to the emergency services, 11.34pm - there were screams heard in the call. We can take this 4mins or so off and we are around 11.30pm. The approx time this search party reached this V break. Ms Lean talks of the slower pace and adds 2 mins onto the 7mins timed from the junction of the paths to this V. This slower pace is in relevance to the brisk pace that this trio had walked to reach the junction of the paths, nothing more. Four people. Walking at an even pace. Every part of that search divided. It is not a difficult search. Shining their torch to the undergrowth on either side of this path and into the field. And the search party were slightly down from the junction of the paths when they met. We take this 7mins off and the time is around 11.23pm. Ms Lean gives a full 5mins to reach the junction from the complex from 11.18pm. This full five mins is all it took for the search trio to reach the junction of the paths. And for every part of those very brief conversations. Of reaching the junction of the paths. Of AW knowing which path, it is RDP, the one to Newbattle. There is no two mins required here at all. Of stepping in this direction and them seeing LM approach by torchlight and him them. They walk to meet. Of this very brief conversation yet again, of LM asking if they had anything of Jodi's to scent with and, of AW wanting to check the path properly whilst there. She mentions this estimate given by them, which is "no more than two mins" And we can see clearly from this very basic brief discussion - that this again takes mere seconds. And of what it did take, was around 5mins to head out this complex, to reach the junction of the paths, to meet and walk down together.

Of leaving Mayfield. To being in this complex and heading out. - AW stays in a small housing scheme which is directly next to Scotts Caravan park (the Mitchell family business) And nowhere near where Ms Lean bides, which is what is classed as the 'top of Mayfield'. And very much uphill. (top) To the right of this family business is a petrol station. To the right of the petrol station,  a minute or twos walk is the start of this complex. It takes a 3/4 minutes to get to this garage from AW's house and little less to be in this complex. It takes around 5mins to walk through this complex to reach Morris R'd where the high school is. Is takes less than 2mins to reach the junction of these paths - Lady Path and RDP. The estimation given was around 10-15mins. The search party left Mayfield around 11.05pm. The call in the complex was 11.18pm. All downhill and they told of the brisk walk they were taking. Which take the search trio to being at the junction of the paths around 11.21. of that very brief discussion of meeting with LM and heading down RDP together.

And we have talk of the search trio stopping and waiting of deciding which path and of being dishonest. Of arguing? They reached the junction of these paths. Neither Kelly or JaJ - knew the path that led to Newbattle. AW did, she knew which one LM would be on. Remember here. This Junction is a path going down and one across (LP) There is no walking anywhere or waiting as such. The had stopped briefly. AW deciding it is down the way and they see LM coming up it. All pretty much happening at the same time - they walk to meet with him. Of shouting "who is that?"  They were not considering a different path, there was slight confusion only with JaJ as she did not know these paths. To which path LM was on. Nothing more.

And their "claimed reasons for going straight to the path to look for Jodi do not stand up to scrutiny?" MM, Ms Leans scrutiny, well that is hardly surprising? - we know with this simple choice of words alone - that the family made it perfectly clear why they were heading to the path - to meet with LM. And of course those phone logs - which are on par with the missing one to the aunt from AW's - which Ms Lean has used in a disingenuous fashion - to disperse doubt upon this families honesty - why? To cover up LM's lies. To draw attention away from LM still being on RDP.
Quote
I know the timings section of the book is very confusing, but the 11.18 call is disputed, both in where the search trio was when it was answered and what was said in the call. In short, the walk from the junction of the paths to the V point at a "brisk pace" in daylight was timed at 7 minutes. Allowing a couple of minutes extra for the discussion when the trio met with Luke at the junction of the path (no more than 2 minutes, according to the statements) and another couple of minutes for the slower walk in the darkness (all of the statements referred to the slow pace), the return journey down the path required at least 11 minutes. If the trio were in the "complex" at 11.18, they would not have reached the junction of the paths until 11.23 - add the 11 minutes required to get to the V point and the time is 11.34 - almost the exact time Luke called 999 the first time. But there's no time for the three members of the search party climbing over the wall, one at a time, finding Jodi, getting back to the V point and climbing back over etc. Even allowing 2 minutes each (and all of the searchers spoke of the struggle AW had getting over the wall, so it's likely to be more than that), the first 999 call would have to be around 11.40pm, based on these timings (which are, in turn, based on the search trio's own statements). That's after the police call back to Luke. There's a lot to take in about this aspect of the case - might be better as a stand alone question!

the return journey down the path required at least 11 minutes. If the trio were in the "complex" at 11.18, they would not have reached the junction of the paths until 11.23 - add the 11 minutes required to get to the V point and the time is 11.34.

Why did the search trio stop at the junction of the paths? If, as Alice originally claimed, they intended to meet Luke "halfway,"  why stop and wait? The argument that they were trying to decide between Roan's Dyke and Lady Path also undermines Alice's claim that they planned to meet Luke "halfway" - why would they consider a different path if the plan was to meet up with him on Roan's Dyke path. Clearly, these claims about an arrangement to meet Luke were dishonest.

At 23:00, Judith was talking to Luke - she hadn't called her mother back yet, her mother hadn't told her to call the police yet and, when she did call her mother back, it was on Alice's landline, so Alice had to still be in her own house after 23.00

The family search trio's account of their movements that evening, and their claimed reasons for going straight to the path to look for Jodi do not stand up to scrutiny - according to phone logs, etc, when compared to statements from the search trio and other members of Jodi's family, the search trio arrived at the start of the path before they actually set out to search, and, by their own admissions, they headed for an area they would not have expected Jodi to be that evening, having been told explicitly that she was expected to be in the opposite direction entirely, and an area which they tried to claim jodi was not allowed to use, and would not have used alone. (At the time they made these claims, they were of the opinion that Jodi had not been with Luke that night, so they had no reason to believe that, had she been on the path with someone, that someone was Luke Mitchell.


We can see clearly the ample time this search trio had to get to RDP. We know there is absolutely nothing that puts them anywhere else, that AW had spoken with her daughter, several times on her landline. We can see clearly from what Ms Lean states, that this search party had told exactly of what had happened. That she attempts to disperse doubt upon this by way of missing phone logs. By attempting to add the maximum times on to take us 6mins over. - What she is not doing is explaining why LM was prepped and ready for the off. Of why he was on/at this path by 10.59pm. Of why he was still on this path by 11.20pm - when she and his mother clearly state. "he wanted up and off this path as quickly as possible" "that he was fit and fast". - Well, he may have been fast - but he was still on this path, but it completely wipes out these claims of looking. And we do not know if LM was home when that text came through - and we do know without a shadow of a doubt - that LM lied about everything. - So this scraping, these attempts to show that this search parties account, had to be false, as Ms lean pushes a whole 6mins onto the time, to the emergency services. -And she clearly attempts to bring this search party to RDP to tie in with LM reaching the top, at the time he should have - not the search trio.

And of this trio reaching the path before they had actually headed out to search? - Confused, I am? - And it is hardly surprising one tangles themselves in knots - when one is clearly attempting to match witness testimony, to the wrong phone logs or ignores the phone logs completely? - And of heading to an area that, that "by their own admission they headed to an area that they would not have expected Jodi to be that evening" - What a tangled web of blatant deceit. Jodi Jones left her house to meet with LM. LM from the off claimed that she was to be going to Newbattle. That she failed to turn up. That he was on RDP looking for her. That he led the search trio to this very path, on this basis. - It could not be any clearer - (Occam's Razor) This girls family were led to this path by LM. They were led directly to her body by LM. - This family did not have time to think of "up here" - their thoughts, in their worry - completely overtaken with LM's claims. She left to meet with him and that they did not meet - In Newbattle.

Offline Nicholas

We have to this point discussed those irrelevant phone calls and the such - which have given room to some pretty extraordinary assumptions. Of attempting to tie LM's version of what happened in this search with that of Jodi's family. Of Ignoring the testimony he gave to bring him back to this V - rather than where he clearly stated, in which he was, without a shadow of a doubt lying. He never claimed to be at this V whilst the search trio always had. Now we move onto the meet. Of Ms Lean attempting to tie the search trio in with LM's version of events. That he had been on/at this path by 10.59pm. That it takes on average around 11mins to walk this path. Therefore she attempts to bring the search trio onto this path by this time. Thus stating they could not have left Mayfield around 11.05pm when JuJ had phoned her mothers landline. And of confusion as to when AW knew that Judith had phoned the police, and of letting her mother know that LM was on RDP. And of this search trio being in the complex at 11.18pm. And of them heading to meet with LM on RDP. What is prominent in what I am going to put up from Ms Lean - is 6mins by her timings that would take the call to the emergency services up to 11.40pm, rather than when it was made at 11.34pm. And of that use of phone logs not tying with the witness accounts - Which has her stating that they were being dishonest - I know, pretty dam ironic is it not?

I view it as malicious

She has used similar tactics for years
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 01:45:49 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

We can see clearly the ample time this search trio had to get to RDP. We know there is absolutely nothing that puts them anywhere else, that AW had spoken with her daughter, several times on her landline. We can see clearly from what Ms Lean states, that this search party had told exactly of what had happened. That she attempts to disperse doubt upon this by way of missing phone logs. By attempting to add the maximum times on to take us 6mins over. - What she is not doing is explaining why LM was prepped and ready for the off. Of why he was on/at this path by 10.59pm. Of why he was still on this path by 11.20pm - when she and his mother clearly state. "he wanted up and off this path as quickly as possible" "that he was fit and fast". - Well, he may have been fast - but he was still on this path, but it completely wipes out these claims of looking. And we do not know if LM was home when that text came through - and we do know without a shadow of a doubt - that LM lied about everything. - So this scraping, these attempts to show that this search parties account, had to be false, as Ms lean pushes a whole 6mins onto the time, to the emergency services. -And she clearly attempts to bring this search party to RDP to tie in with LM reaching the top, at the time he should have - not the search trio.

Based on what has been said on this in the past it appears Luke Mitchell wasn’t in his house when he received the text message from JuJ - to Jodi - telling her to say goodnight to Luke

So where was he and what was he doing?

At 10.00pm Luke was seen by his neighbour returning home

Returning home from where?

There has only ever been mention of an alleged ‘5 minute’ dog walk (Corinne to James English) - so what time did he take Mia out for a walk and where did Luke go on this walk?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 02:45:42 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

And of this trio reaching the path before they had actually headed out to search? - Confused, I am? - And it is hardly surprising one tangles themselves in knots - when one is clearly attempting to match witness testimony, to the wrong phone logs or ignores the phone logs completely? - And of heading to an area that, that "by their own admission they headed to an area that they would not have expected Jodi to be that evening" - What a tangled web of blatant deceit. Jodi Jones left her house to meet with LM. LM from the off claimed that she was to be going to Newbattle. That she failed to turn up. That he was on RDP looking for her. That he led the search trio to this very path, on this basis. - It could not be any clearer - (Occam's Razor) This girls family were led to this path by LM. They were led directly to her body by LM. - This family did not have time to think of "up here" - their thoughts, in their worry - completely overtaken with LM's claims. She left to meet with him and that they did not meet - In Newbattle.

What lessons, if any, did Sandra Lean learn following the exposure of Simon Halls guilt in 2012/2013?

15th November 2010
Sandra Lean
‘I am finished with MoJ work. I intended to bow out in October, but was talked around by many people at the UAI day. That was a mistake. I will finish Luke's case, and that's it. I have nothing left to give.


1st January 2011 - re Simon Hall’s appeal verdict
Sandra Lean - ‘skeleton statements’
Conviction overturned, no re-trial

We are obviously delighted that the Court of Appeal has finally recognised what we have been telling them  all along – Simon was always innocent of this crime. There will be many issues to be addressed in the coming months, including questions regarding why evidence pointing to other suspects was never properly investigated, and why it has taken so long to get to this stage. Bearing in mind that the real perpetrators may yet be brought to trial, and they deserve a fair trial, which is something not afforded to Simon, I cannot go into too much detail about the other evidence at this time. However, should the authorities fail to re-open the investigation into Mrs Albert’s death and pursue the real murderers, then we will not hesitate to make public everything we have uncovered. One way or another, the whole truth will come out, we will make sure of it.

Conviction quashed, Re-trial ordered.
‘Although we are pleased that the Court of Appeal has finally recognised that the conviction of Simon was flawed, we are disappointed in the decision to stage a re-trial. Although I am unable to say too much at this stage, the CPS knew about several other pieces of evidence pointing away from Simon and towards another perpetrator right from the beginning of this case.
It is shameful that it has taken this long for them to admit this conviction was unsafe, and an outrage that an innocent  man must remain in prison awaiting another trial, when the original case against him has collapsed. Simon has already lost more than eight years of his life to this disgrace, and now must wait for the system to set up yet another ordeal in his fight to prove his innocence.
However, we are confident that the re-trial will exonerate Simon completely, and he will finally walk out of prison the way he walked in – innocent.
Sandra Lean, who featured Simon’s case in her book “No Smoke” said this morning, “What today’s  decision means is that the British Justice system would rather allow murderers to walk among us, and innocent men to languish in jails for crimes they did not commit, than simply admit they got it wrong. Given that the DPP himself said that without the fibre evidence, there was no case, this re-trial appears to be nothing more than a face-saving exercise from a prosecution machine that cannot accept its own failings. Perhaps the best that can be said about it is that it offers the opportunity for Simon to finally clear his name.”


Conviction Upheld
This decision is an affront to justice. The CPS knows that there was another burglary that evening in Capel. They know that the SOCOs went directly from  that crime scene to the murder scene. They know that there was DNA on the knife that did not belong to Simon, that the original fibre investigation concluded no match for the fibres, and that the jury was misled into believing that the knife that was used to kill Mrs Albert must have come from an opened drawer in her own kitchen.
They also know that another man confessed to this murder. So why do they insist on keeping an innocent man in prison, and refusing to acknowledge the existence of this other evidence? What can possibly be gained by allowing the real perpetrators to remain free and unpunished?
We will not rest until the whole truth of this case has been made public, and that includes the collusion and cover-up which has allowed this gross miscarriage of justice to persist for so long, and which, sadly, in light of today’s decision, will be allowed to continue.
We will never give up the fight for justice for Simon. The truth will come out – all of it. The DPP himself said that without the fibre evidence, there was no case. The fibre evidence has now been discredited – why is Simon to remain in prison for another man’s crime?
Sandra Lean, who featured Simon’s case in her book “No Smoke” said this morning, “This is a dark day for British Justice. This decision tells us that the justice system in this country would rather allow murderers to walk among us, and innocent men to languish in prison for crimes they did not commit, than simply admit, “We got it wrong.” Any other industry behaving in this way would be closed down – the justice industry is answerable to no-one. The fight for Simon Hall’s freedom goes on.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 11:45:55 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

What lessons, if any, did Sandra Lean learn following the exposure of Simon Halls guilt in 2012/2013?

15th November 2010 - Sandra Lean

‘I am finished with MoJ work. I intended to bow out in October, but was talked around by many people at the UAI day. That was a mistake. I will finish Luke's case, and that's it. I have nothing left to give.


⬆️ Mixed messages ⬇️

November 2010
‘Incident’ between Sandra Lean and Billy Middleton - Middleton moved back to Shetland

⬇️

23rd November 2010
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8086.msg383377.html?PHPSESSID=dvneetci1lddlqb21ie9g1l694#msg383377

8th Feb 2011 - Sandra Leans youngest daughter
‘I have been keeping an eye on whats going on on forums, and my mum's facebook page. I would like to speak to you, person to person
[/i]’

9th Feb 2011 - Sandra Lean
Your partnership with John is as transparent as it is dangerous for you, but you will be unable to see that what I am saying is out of concern. I have worked very hard, for a very long time, to be able to do what I do, and I will not stand by and let you trash that’
[/i].
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 03:44:02 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Parky41

Quote
Sandra Lean, who featured Simon’s case in her book “No Smoke” said this morning, “This is a dark day for British Justice. This decision tells us that the justice system in this country would rather allow murderers to walk among us, and innocent men to languish in prison for crimes they did not commit, than simply admit, “We got it wrong.” Any other industry behaving in this way would be closed down – the justice industry is answerable to no-one. The fight for Simon Hall’s freedom goes on.”

"than simply admit we got it wrong"


What is truly abhorrent around Simon's case - Not only for his victim for the family left behind. That once his fight had been lost, that only then was he overcome with guilt in all that he had done. That upon admitting his guilt, and of subsequently taken his life - Is Ms Leans point blank refusal In accepting this guilt. Of every part she played in this and of all she said. Of her simply admitting, she got it wrong. This man did not kill himself through innocence, if he had simply given up - it would have been this message he put out, not of admitting his guilt. -That is the stark reality, and yet she still strives to attempt to disperse doubt. - of blaming the system, of laying blame with others but not upon herself. Of this "we do not know the circumstances" - The circumstance were, that SH was not going to gain his freedom from the crime in which he was guilty of. That it was this guilt that made him confess and end his life.

She has gotten the LM case demonstrably wrong. - Whatever thoughts, whatever manipulation used in those attempts, to stick to her guns from day dot. Of the total pigs ear she has made and the power struggle she has had - upon having those defence case notes placed in her hands. Of that desperate need to be proven right - of manipulating others on board? To hear what she has to say, to plant her questions into their heads. - all based upon wrongful premise?

We know the legal and professional side - the argument for human rights and so forth - The rest of the deciphering, the scrutiny of what she holds - has developed into fantasy. Of using these innocent people in the most appalling manner. And I will highlight these aunts yet again. For every wrongful discussion, for every piece of wrongful accusations placed upon their heads. On the simple basis of irrelevance - That DF chose not to have the actual phone log, of AW's call to her daughter, in his defence of LM V HMA. And we can see clearly from here - of how easy and at will she uses information such as this - across the board. That half of what has been put out, is on the total basis of the factual irrelevance it holds.

Of using the non erection of a tent at the locus - which has gave way to putting the most appalling blame upon the police for all and everything. Of showing this clear error and using it to build upon. Of LM being segregated. Nonsense - LM was sitting with the others, cadging fags and the such, after he had been asked by the police to show them where. Happily texting away on his phone. He and Ms Lean uses this being asked to go over the wall - to incriminate him, to leave his DNA behind. Do they not? - this ludicrous, obtuse thinking. That the police had it in for him from that moment? - Certainly taken note of how he was, his demeanor and the like. Of being whisked away to Dalkeith police station - nonsense. LM still had his phone long before he was taken to Dalkeith police station, and was in his possession when he scrubbed the rest of the data. Around 12.30am. LM was still at RDP at this point. As were the others. And he still had the phone when he eventually was taken to Dalkeith police station - for easy access and location for his mother. He was not stripped of his clothing. He was asked for it.  - all of this guilt and suspicion placed upon his head - came from him and from this author. Their thoughts in the mind of the guilty. He suspected everything the police were doing, towards him - as he was guilty and this is what was playing in his head. - Not what was actually./factually happening.

And of this crime scene management. It is dark, it is unfamiliar territory to the police and the emergency services. It is by no means an easy locus to manage. We are being forced to zone in on the negative. Of not erecting a tent, of this obese coroner. Of items being moved and a body being "rolled" - Of bleaching the scene - Stop for a moment and think. This is Ms Leans deciphering remember - this person who has opened up possibilities of Jodi being murdered elsewhere - as nowhere near 5 1/2 litres of blood, was recovered from the crime scene?? - - Not the ground, the wall and so forth. This woodland with wet soil after heavy bouts of rain. Over the course of this evening up until the police attended at the scene. Of showing us that she knows how the crime scene looked prior to moving anything - which tells us clearly, as at trial that photographs were taken - prior to movement, prior to branches being cut back - to allow for the videographer equipment. We know that advice would have been given and acted upon. From the obese coroner until the second one arrived - not in our favour to show us this however, as it would show a completely different account of what is being pushed out. We know CD remarked upon how fine the crime scene was managed - he did not say this falsely and he did not fold under DF's scrutiny. This dark strip of woodland. Who knows what evidence lay amongst it. The one clear area that had already been accessed was via this V, and down that very narrow passage on the inside of this wall - It is ludicrous to suggest, that they should have trampled everywhere in the dark - attempting to access elsewhere - it needed cordoned off, and it needed preserved. "Rolled" indeed. We know the injuries this girl sustained - she was not rolled anywhere. Carefully place upon sheeting yes. Respectively. To preserve evidence, of which we are given no indication of instructions given, to do so. - No tent thus everything else must have been done wrongly? - What we do know, is that whatever actions were taken - were taken with preservation in mind. -  We know there was already shelter, from the trees, that large Oak LM described and of the wall itself. - Lots of things to consider, outwith a tent, an obese coroner and gaining access elsewhere - which would have potentially done more harm than

Offline Nicholas

"than simply admit we got it wrong"


What is truly abhorrent around Simon's case - Not only for his victim for the family left behind. That once his fight had been lost, that only then was he overcome with guilt in all that he had done. That upon admitting his guilt, and of subsequently taken his life - Is Ms Leans point blank refusal In accepting this guilt. Of every part she played in this and of all she said. Of her simply admitting, she got it wrong. This man did not kill himself through innocence, if he had simply given up - it would have been this message he put out, not of admitting his guilt. -That is the stark reality, and yet she still strives to attempt to disperse doubt. - of blaming the system, of laying blame with others but not upon herself. Of this "we do not know the circumstances" - The circumstance were, that SH was not going to gain his freedom from the crime in which he was guilty of. That it was this guilt that made him confess and end his life.

Simon Hall brutally murdered JA - the women who lost her life at his hands - but by choosing to not admit his guilt Hall created further victims. Some people were prepared to lie for him - including his mother and brother - not dissimilar to the Mitchell’s.

It’s unlikely Hall’s confession was grounded in ‘guilt’ per se, especially given the fact his guilt was already being exposed by those who knew him around the time he murdered.

Killers confess for various reasons and it can be linked to having the power and control of any given situation.

Sandra Lean made a conscious choice to continue with the Luke Mitchell campaign

”The decision about whether to take up, or continue to carry, the baton for claimed Miscarriages of Justice is a matter for the person deciding to do so, and their own conscience.”
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8086.msg382961.html#msg382961

But there won’t be any ‘independent inquiry’ because many people are seeing through this charade.

Although it’s not really a ‘charade’ - it’s been thought over in great detail hasn’t it and some ideas have clearly stemmed from the various other cases/campaigns over the years  *&^^&

He suspected everything the police were doing, towards him - as he was guilty and this is what was playing in his head. - Not what was actually./factually happening.

Of course he knew. He attempted to out smart everyone, from the search party to the police - who he ‘never did trust’

Why not?

Why did this 14 year old going on 15 never trust the police?

Where did this come from?

I suspect for Sandra Lean to simply admit she ‘got it wrong’ it may be too much for her ego
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 06:12:41 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Brietta

"than simply admit we got it wrong"


What is truly abhorrent around Simon's case - Not only for his victim for the family left behind. That once his fight had been lost, that only then was he overcome with guilt in all that he had done. That upon admitting his guilt, and of subsequently taken his life - Is Ms Leans point blank refusal In accepting this guilt. Of every part she played in this and of all she said. Of her simply admitting, she got it wrong. This man did not kill himself through innocence, if he had simply given up - it would have been this message he put out, not of admitting his guilt. -That is the stark reality, and yet she still strives to attempt to disperse doubt. - of blaming the system, of laying blame with others but not upon herself. Of this "we do not know the circumstances" - The circumstance were, that SH was not going to gain his freedom from the crime in which he was guilty of. That it was this guilt that made him confess and end his life.

She has gotten the LM case demonstrably wrong. - Whatever thoughts, whatever manipulation used in those attempts, to stick to her guns from day dot. Of the total pigs ear she has made and the power struggle she has had - upon having those defence case notes placed in her hands. Of that desperate need to be proven right - of manipulating others on board? To hear what she has to say, to plant her questions into their heads. - all based upon wrongful premise?

We know the legal and professional side - the argument for human rights and so forth - The rest of the deciphering, the scrutiny of what she holds - has developed into fantasy. Of using these innocent people in the most appalling manner. And I will highlight these aunts yet again. For every wrongful discussion, for every piece of wrongful accusations placed upon their heads. On the simple basis of irrelevance - That DF chose not to have the actual phone log, of AW's call to her daughter, in his defence of LM V HMA. And we can see clearly from here - of how easy and at will she uses information such as this - across the board. That half of what has been put out, is on the total basis of the factual irrelevance it holds.

Of using the non erection of a tent at the locus - which has gave way to putting the most appalling blame upon the police for all and everything. Of showing this clear error and using it to build upon. Of LM being segregated. Nonsense - LM was sitting with the others, cadging fags and the such, after he had been asked by the police to show them where. Happily texting away on his phone. He and Ms Lean uses this being asked to go over the wall - to incriminate him, to leave his DNA behind. Do they not? - this ludicrous, obtuse thinking. That the police had it in for him from that moment? - Certainly taken note of how he was, his demeanor and the like. Of being whisked away to Dalkeith police station - nonsense. LM still had his phone long before he was taken to Dalkeith police station, and was in his possession when he scrubbed the rest of the data. Around 12.30am. LM was still at RDP at this point. As were the others. And he still had the phone when he eventually was taken to Dalkeith police station - for easy access and location for his mother. He was not stripped of his clothing. He was asked for it.  - all of this guilt and suspicion placed upon his head - came from him and from this author. Their thoughts in the mind of the guilty. He suspected everything the police were doing, towards him - as he was guilty and this is what was playing in his head. - Not what was actually./factually happening.

And of this crime scene management. It is dark, it is unfamiliar territory to the police and the emergency services. It is by no means an easy locus to manage. We are being forced to zone in on the negative. Of not erecting a tent, of this obese coroner. Of items being moved and a body being "rolled" - Of bleaching the scene - Stop for a moment and think. This is Ms Leans deciphering remember - this person who has opened up possibilities of Jodi being murdered elsewhere - as nowhere near 5 1/2 litres of blood, was recovered from the crime scene?? - - Not the ground, the wall and so forth. This woodland with wet soil after heavy bouts of rain. Over the course of this evening up until the police attended at the scene. Of showing us that she knows how the crime scene looked prior to moving anything - which tells us clearly, as at trial that photographs were taken - prior to movement, prior to branches being cut back - to allow for the videographer equipment. We know that advice would have been given and acted upon. From the obese coroner until the second one arrived - not in our favour to show us this however, as it would show a completely different account of what is being pushed out. We know CD remarked upon how fine the crime scene was managed - he did not say this falsely and he did not fold under DF's scrutiny. This dark strip of woodland. Who knows what evidence lay amongst it. The one clear area that had already been accessed was via this V, and down that very narrow passage on the inside of this wall - It is ludicrous to suggest, that they should have trampled everywhere in the dark - attempting to access elsewhere - it needed cordoned off, and it needed preserved. "Rolled" indeed. We know the injuries this girl sustained - she was not rolled anywhere. Carefully place upon sheeting yes. Respectively. To preserve evidence, of which we are given no indication of instructions given, to do so. - No tent thus everything else must have been done wrongly? - What we do know, is that whatever actions were taken - were taken with preservation in mind. -  We know there was already shelter, from the trees, that large Oak LM described and of the wall itself. - Lots of things to consider, outwith a tent, an obese coroner and gaining access elsewhere - which would have potentially done more harm than

Initially I was seduced by the "botched" crime scene.  But on reflection I think the best that could have been done was to try to preserve as much of the scene as possible and the only way was to stay off it until it was light enough to see what was underfoot.

The crime scene had already been compromised by civilians led to it by Mitchell so no point in making it worse by walking all over it in the dark.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Nicholas

"The circumstance were, that SH was not going to gain his freedom from the crime in which he was guilty of. That it was this guilt that made him confess and end his life.

Simon Hall talked of his fantasies of committing further murders upon his release from prison.

Did Hall fantasise about committing murder before his fantasy became reality in December 2001? I suspect it’s very possible he did.

Did Luke Mitchell fantasise about committing murder before he carried out his deadly crimes?

What was it about satanism which appealed to him - a 14 year old? Unless he was younger when he first showed an interest?

Did Luke Mitchell wet the bed regularly as he was growing up? Bed wetting is one of the behaviours to look out for using the ‘Macdonald triad’ apparently https://www.healthline.com/health/macdonald-triad#accuracy

Would Corinne or Philip Mitchell have been aware of what warning signs to look out for in their child’s behaviour?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 08:20:43 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Initially I was seduced by the "botched" crime scene.  But on reflection I think the best that could have been done was to try to preserve as much of the scene as possible and the only way was to stay off it until it was light enough to see what was underfoot.

The crime scene had already been compromised by civilians led to it by Mitchell so no point in making it worse by walking all over it in the dark.

The poor child’s body lay naked uncovered  in the rain all night. Where was the dignity in that? Imagine it was your daughter?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

The poor child’s body lay naked uncovered  in the rain all night. Where was the dignity in that? Imagine it was your daughter?

Dignity?

Luke Mitchell murdered then mutilated [Name removed]’s body after he killed her!
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

The poor child’s body lay naked uncovered  in the rain all night.

Can you show us a sketch of the crime scene as it was on that night and show us where and how a tent could have been erected?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Dignity?

Luke Mitchell murdered then mutilated [Name removed]’s body after he killed her!

Even if that was true does that mean that it didn’t matter that Jodi’s body had more indignity heaped on it?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Even if that was true does that mean that it didn’t matter that Jodi’s body had more indignity heaped on it?

What is undignified is using this girls death to score some very invalid points towards the police handling of the crime scene. What is undignified is using words such as "rolling the body". What is undignified is using this poor girls dead body as a tool - to beat the police with. What is undignified is making claim to 10 different profiles of DNA, from sperm or semen, with the implication pushed out that it came from 10 different males!? - that it was virtually all over this poor girls dead body. Now we see this as being 5 different males!? - What is totally undignified is the way in which the books are written - that then give cause to people vying about - to see who gang raped her and so forth, of incest and every other piece of vile comments - Turning this poor girls murder by her boyfriend into every horrendous act under the sun - these are the type of things that are undignified - They stem from this very author. Who took no time to do any research - who makes claim to the results being botched up due to the female element of DNA being in semen. - By the very means of manipulating those results. to make them into something they are not - Jodi's death, the horrendous undignified way in which she was murdered. left naked and so forth by her boyfriend - to her poor family having to then see her like this, the impact and shock upon them. And of the police, the emergency services and the pathologist - That is what you class as undignified.

Not your irrational and completely invalid claims - due to no tent being erected. You, and all else who feed from this book, of it's completely undignified handling of this girls very sad death - are a disgrace.  Jodi Jones, who we hear of as this lovely young girl. her whole life ahead of her. Was brutally murdered by her boyfriend. And again by these very books and so forth - Has had her family torn to shreds - with these claims of incest and abuse and of murdering her - that is undignified.