Author Topic: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?  (Read 62122 times)

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Offline Dexter

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #900 on: July 18, 2021, 03:59:50 PM »
Yes he did give evidence in court. Naturally so. You can look up many reports around Jodi's mothers evidence in court. There is mention of Ovens also. Of the court being shown CCTV footage, of the call taken by himself. Brief and basic as the media were interested more in reporting on her mothers evidence. Which tells us it happened on the same day. That blind side yet again played on. Of there being nothing that actually states, when he took the stand, but neither do they state they simply read from his statements. He was there in person, he gave evidence.

And before the inevitable, "why should I believe you" - again it matters not whether you believe the Crowns evidence, or anything else out in the public domain over time via forums such as this. Any source of information. And if we take the stance of "Who knows" over evidence led, from Mr Ovens, who stated he told Mitchell she had already left to meet him. But to draw your attention to all this nonsense of buried statements, of Ovens not being a witness. To all the nonsense from Ms Lean around his actual statements. Of what Luke claimed he said over what Ovens said. - So we are left with whom do we put trust in? Liars?

To Lianna Mackie who claims to have been friends with this girl, nonsense is it not. So you are perhaps correct, that she maybe knew them, saw them around the playground, shared a class. To the nonsense she puts out, of Ovens and all else. Where she puts herself on some pedestal of worth by claiming to know them - so that people will look and say things, such as "interesting she believes Luke is innocent" A clear case of, listen to me, I know everything but does not even know the basics. That she could not answer a simple question, with anything other than misinformation and blatant lies. That she is telling people that Ovens did not give evidence, that he said in his statement "They left".  As you say, interesting. The blind leading the blind?

Peden and Fergie - the people who called Lean out for lying? Where some other alias has popped up, Nikki Weir, who claims to have reported her for taking advantage of a vulnerable adult, of claiming they too see CM on a daily basis. That she is very ill. That the statement put out could not have been from LM, as his grammar was far better? Articulate lad. Full of the same, being threatened for 18yrs for speaking out, spat on, attacked in shops - those are Leans words. Is this Weir simply a copycat? - someone else vying for the lying?

If LP had been totally wrong, then you can be sure that something would have come forward, directly from Lean herself. Does one really imagine she would be sitting on her laurels with it? - She would be letting everyone know, If LM had told her it was wrong. Perhaps she still will, once Luke eventually converses with her, or answers this Mackie person?

What I will say, if Lean actually does not know Ovens was in court giving evidence (cough) then she has held even less in her hands, and written a hell of lot more assumption and nonsense around all that is missing. - That blind faith around the unknown? Filled in with the nonsense.

You might have already explained so sorry if I'm covering points already mentioned. You seem to know the case extremely well and make some interesting points. What is your connection to the case? Have you followed it right from the start ?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 04:03:03 PM by Dexter »

Offline mrswah

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Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #901 on: July 18, 2021, 05:09:40 PM »
Yes he did give evidence in court. Naturally so. You can look up many reports around Jodi's mothers evidence in court. There is mention of Ovens also. Of the court being shown CCTV footage, of the call taken by himself. Brief and basic as the media were interested more in reporting on her mothers evidence. Which tells us it happened on the same day. That blind side yet again played on. Of there being nothing that actually states, when he took the stand, but neither do they state they simply read from his statements. He was there in person, he gave evidence.

And before the inevitable, "why should I believe you" - again it matters not whether you believe the Crowns evidence, or anything else out in the public domain over time via forums such as this. Any source of information. And if we take the stance of "Who knows" over evidence led, from Mr Ovens, who stated he told Mitchell she had already left to meet him. But to draw your attention to all this nonsense of buried statements, of Ovens not being a witness. To all the nonsense from Ms Lean around his actual statements. Of what Luke claimed he said over what Ovens said. - So we are left with whom do we put trust in? Liars?

To Lianna Mackie who claims to have been friends with this girl, nonsense is it not. So you are perhaps correct, that she maybe knew them, saw them around the playground, shared a class. To the nonsense she puts out, of Ovens and all else. Where she puts herself on some pedestal of worth by claiming to know them - so that people will look and say things, such as "interesting she believes Luke is innocent" A clear case of, listen to me, I know everything but does not even know the basics. That she could not answer a simple question, with anything other than misinformation and blatant lies. That she is telling people that Ovens did not give evidence, that he said in his statement "They left".  As you say, interesting. The blind leading the blind?

Peden and Fergie - the people who called Lean out for lying? Where some other alias has popped up, Nikki Weir, who claims to have reported her for taking advantage of a vulnerable adult, of claiming they too see CM on a daily basis. That she is very ill. That the statement put out could not have been from LM, as his grammar was far better? Articulate lad. Full of the same, being threatened for 18yrs for speaking out, spat on, attacked in shops - those are Leans words. Is this Weir simply a copycat? - someone else vying for the lying?

If LP had been totally wrong, then you can be sure that something would have come forward, directly from Lean herself. Does one really imagine she would be sitting on her laurels with it? - She would be letting everyone know, If LM had told her it was wrong. Perhaps she still will, once Luke eventually converses with her, or answers this Mackie person?

What I will say, if Lean actually does not know Ovens was in court giving evidence (cough) then she has held even less in her hands, and written a hell of lot more assumption and nonsense around all that is missing. - That blind faith around the unknown? Filled in with the nonsense.

Thanks for answering my questions, Parky.

I didn't get any info re Ovens from Sandra Lean, actually, but from various people on other forums and on You Tube. Some say he gave evidence, and some say he didn't.

As I say, I don't follow the "campaigners" very  much. Don't really like campaigns. I did hear, however that it is true that Corrinne Mitchell has been in hospital, so presumably she has been ill-----don't know the details, though.

Offline Dexter

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #902 on: July 18, 2021, 05:35:53 PM »
Thanks for answering my questions, Parky.

I didn't get any info re Ovens from Sandra Lean, actually, but from various people on other forums and on You Tube. Some say he gave evidence, and some say he didn't.

As I say, I don't follow the "campaigners" very  much. Don't really like campaigns. I did hear, however that it is true that Corrinne Mitchell has been in hospital, so presumably she has been ill-----don't know the details, though.

I have seen the comments about giving evidence or not. Would be interested to know which version is true.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #903 on: July 18, 2021, 05:40:52 PM »
Yes he did give evidence in court. Naturally so. You can look up many reports around Jodi's mothers evidence in court. There is mention of Ovens also. Of the court being shown CCTV footage, of the call taken by himself. Brief and basic as the media were interested more in reporting on her mothers evidence. Which tells us it happened on the same day. That blind side yet again played on. Of there being nothing that actually states, when he took the stand, but neither do they state they simply read from his statements. He was there in person, he gave evidence.

And before the inevitable, "why should I believe you" - again it matters not whether you believe the Crowns evidence, or anything else out in the public domain over time via forums such as this. Any source of information. And if we take the stance of "Who knows" over evidence led, from Mr Ovens, who stated he told Mitchell she had already left to meet him. But to draw your attention to all this nonsense of buried statements, of Ovens not being a witness. To all the nonsense from Ms Lean around his actual statements. Of what Luke claimed he said over what Ovens said. - So we are left with whom do we put trust in? Liars?

To Lianna Mackie who claims to have been friends with this girl, nonsense is it not. So you are perhaps correct, that she maybe knew them, saw them around the playground, shared a class. To the nonsense she puts out, of Ovens and all else. Where she puts herself on some pedestal of worth by claiming to know them - so that people will look and say things, such as "interesting she believes Luke is innocent" A clear case of, listen to me, I know everything but does not even know the basics. That she could not answer a simple question, with anything other than misinformation and blatant lies. That she is telling people that Ovens did not give evidence, that he said in his statement "They left".  As you say, interesting. The blind leading the blind?

Peden and Fergie - the people who called Lean out for lying? Where some other alias has popped up, Nikki Weir, who claims to have reported her for taking advantage of a vulnerable adult, of claiming they too see CM on a daily basis. That she is very ill. That the statement put out could not have been from LM, as his grammar was far better? Articulate lad. Full of the same, being threatened for 18yrs for speaking out, spat on, attacked in shops - those are Leans words. Is this Weir simply a copycat? - someone else vying for the lying?

If LP had been totally wrong, then you can be sure that something would have come forward, directly from Lean herself. Does one really imagine she would be sitting on her laurels with it? - She would be letting everyone know, If LM had told her it was wrong. Perhaps she still will, once Luke eventually converses with her, or answers this Mackie person?

What I will say, if Lean actually does not know Ovens was in court giving evidence (cough) then she has held even less in her hands, and written a hell of lot more assumption and nonsense around all that is missing. - That blind faith around the unknown?

Filled in with the nonsense.

There are multiple mentions in the MSM of Alan Ovens dialogue with Luke on the 30th of June in court, none however from his own lips which is strange. Multiple reports of the rest of the family giving direct evidence in court, none at all involving Alan Ovens.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline rulesapply

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #904 on: July 20, 2021, 02:01:40 PM »
I have seen the comments about giving evidence or not. Would be interested to know which version is true.

According to this article Allen Ovens spoke directly to the court

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12411779.she-gave-me-a-kiss-and-went-out-i-never-saw-jodi-again-mother-tells-murder-trial-of-phone-calls-to-accused-after-daughter-went-missing/


Offline faithlilly

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #906 on: July 20, 2021, 04:11:04 PM »
According to this article Allen Ovens spoke directly to the court

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12411779.she-gave-me-a-kiss-and-went-out-i-never-saw-jodi-again-mother-tells-murder-trial-of-phone-calls-to-accused-after-daughter-went-missing/

Thank you. Interesting link. Is there any evidence of this second call in the phone data to Luke after [Name removed] made the initial call to him at 10.40pm?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #907 on: July 21, 2021, 02:05:53 PM »
According to this article Allen Ovens spoke directly to the court

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12411779.she-gave-me-a-kiss-and-went-out-i-never-saw-jodi-again-mother-tells-murder-trial-of-phone-calls-to-accused-after-daughter-went-missing/

Sandra Lean (yesterday)
‘There was a discussion recently about whether AO (Jodi's mother's partner) gave evidence at trial. I wasn't able to answer definitively, because I couldn't remember seeing any media coverage and I know I hadn't seen transcripts, but neither of those confirm the situation one way or another.
Someone very kindly found the article below and shared it with me, so now we have the answer- he did (albeit reported in the middle of Jodi's mum's evidence in this article)



She also included a link to the Nov 2004 media article you posted rulesapply
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #908 on: July 21, 2021, 03:30:49 PM »
Sandra Lean (yesterday)
‘There was a discussion recently about whether AO (Jodi's mother's partner) gave evidence at trial. I wasn't able to answer definitively, because I couldn't remember seeing any media coverage and I know I hadn't seen transcripts, but neither of those confirm the situation one way or another.
Someone very kindly found the article below and shared it with me, so now we have the answer- he did (albeit reported in the middle of Jodi's mum's evidence in this article)



She also included a link to the Nov 2004 media article you posted rulesapply

As a ‘mother of two girls’ - how is this headline ⬇️ not etched on Sandra Leans mind?

She gave me a kiss and went out. I never saw Jodi again
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 03:33:09 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Rusty

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #909 on: July 21, 2021, 04:07:55 PM »
Sandra Lean (yesterday)
‘There was a discussion recently about whether AO (Jodi's mother's partner) gave evidence at trial. I wasn't able to answer definitively, because I couldn't remember seeing any media coverage and I know I hadn't seen transcripts, but neither of those confirm the situation one way or another.
Someone very kindly found the article below and shared it with me, so now we have the answer- he did (albeit reported in the middle of Jodi's mum's evidence in this article)



She also included a link to the Nov 2004 media article you posted rulesapply


 @)(++(* Well that is a coincidence  @)(++(*

 

Offline Nicholas

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #910 on: July 22, 2021, 08:47:28 AM »
Sandra Lean (yesterday)
‘There was a discussion recently about whether AO (Jodi's mother's partner) gave evidence at trial. I wasn't able to answer definitively, because I couldn't remember seeing any media coverage and I know I hadn't seen transcripts, but neither of those confirm the situation one way or another.
Someone very kindly found the article below and shared it with me, so now we have the answer- he did (albeit reported in the middle of Jodi's mum's evidence in this article)



She also included a link to the Nov 2004 media article you posted rulesapply

She adds

Sandra Lean
MA He wasn't the last person to see her, M. According to his statements,  he saw Jodi in the living room when he came in from work, then went to the bathroom. Jodi left while he was still in there, so the last people to see her (according to their statements) were her mum and brother and then the two independent witnesses who saw her being followed closely by stocky man around 5 past 5

M
Sandra Lean that’s very interesting Sandra , usually the last  person to see the victim was involved, are we sure that the independent witness actually seen Jodi ? Or was that someone else as AB make a mistake on the identity of Jodi and Luke , plus I am really sorry ur not involved any more , u r truly an amazing woman ,  no one could have done what u have for Luke xxx

Sandra Lean
MA One of the independent witnesses knew Jodi, so that's a fairly solid identification (compared to AB who said she didn't know Jodi or Luke, didn't see either of their faces and described people completely different to Luke and Jodi). Makes you wonder where this case might have gone if they'd accepted the other witnesses' sighting, doesn't it???
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 08:49:58 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #911 on: July 22, 2021, 10:14:03 AM »
She adds

Sandra Lean
MA He wasn't the last person to see her, M. According to his statements,  he saw Jodi in the living room when he came in from work, then went to the bathroom. Jodi left while he was still in there, so the last people to see her (according to their statements) were her mum and brother and then the two independent witnesses who saw her being followed closely by stocky man around 5 past 5

M
Sandra Lean that’s very interesting Sandra , usually the last  person to see the victim was involved, are we sure that the independent witness actually seen Jodi ? Or was that someone else as AB make a mistake on the identity of Jodi and Luke , plus I am really sorry ur not involved any more , u r truly an amazing woman ,  no one could have done what u have for Luke xxx

Sandra Lean
MA One of the independent witnesses knew Jodi, so that's a fairly solid identification (compared to AB who said she didn't know Jodi or Luke, didn't see either of their faces and described people completely different to Luke and Jodi). Makes you wonder where this case might have gone if they'd accepted the other witnesses' sighting, doesn't it???


Makes you wonder why AB’s sighting was chosen ahead of someone who knew Jodi? Of course if Jodi was seen without Luke at 5.05pm  then that blows the case wide open.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #912 on: July 22, 2021, 06:12:11 PM »
Makes you wonder why AB’s sighting was chosen ahead of someone who knew Jodi? Of course if Jodi was seen without Luke at 5.05pm  then that blows the case wide open.


What were/are the names of these ‘two independent witnesses’ and was the reason their evidence wasn’t used in court anything to do with their ‘evidence’ not holding up?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline rulesapply

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #913 on: July 22, 2021, 06:17:55 PM »

What were/are the names of these ‘two independent witnesses’ and was the reason their evidence wasn’t used in court anything to do with their ‘evidence’ not holding up?

A "fairly" solid identification. If it "was" Jodi. The witness either positively identified Jodi or they didn't. One of them may have known Jodi but it doesn't sound as though that person was positive Jodi was the girl they saw.

Offline rulesapply

Re: Is DR Sandra Lean a credible source?
« Reply #914 on: July 22, 2021, 06:21:52 PM »

What were/are the names of these ‘two independent witnesses’ and was the reason their evidence wasn’t used in court anything to do with their ‘evidence’ not holding up?

What I meant to say is, if I know someone and I'm sure I saw them then I'm not fairly sure. I'm sure.