Author Topic: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others  (Read 7303 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #165 on: January 18, 2021, 04:57:47 PM »
Nóra Quoirin death: Girl's body 'placed in the jungle'

"I suppose the easiest one to dwell on was the fact there was an open window [in the family's chalet]," said Mrs Quoirin, who is originally from Belfast.

"Someone opened that window, it wasn't any of us. That is totally unexplained."

"Nóra always looked to someone else for reassurance on what she should do next so the idea that she would have climbed out a window - even found a window or seen a window in the pitch black - is in our view crazy," Mrs Quorin said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55697156

So now it's 'Crazy' to think that Nora would have seen a window, found a window or opened a window herself.

Was there no end to this girls incapacity?

It's a wonder she ever remembered to inhale & exhale.
Free Martin Brueckner

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #166 on: January 20, 2021, 10:48:04 AM »
I tend to agree with the mother, she knew Nora best, she knew what she was and was not capable better than the Malaysian authorities and better than online WUMs.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #167 on: January 20, 2021, 11:34:06 AM »
I tend to agree with the mother, she knew Nora best, she knew what she was and was not capable better than the Malaysian authorities and better than online WUMs.

Mothers may be closer to their children than others, but that doesn't mean their opinions are always right. Children can behave differently with different people and in different situations. Behaviour which a mother sees as normal could just be a habitual response to a protective mother.
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #168 on: January 20, 2021, 11:38:27 AM »
Mothers may be closer to their children than others, but that doesn't mean their opinions are always right. Children can behave differently with different people and in different situations. Behaviour which a mother sees as normal could just be a habitual response to a protective mother.
Just remember that next time someone cites Kate's mother saying Madeleine would have screamed the place down if she'd beem in the process of being abducted, 'kay?
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #169 on: January 20, 2021, 12:30:54 PM »
Just remember that next time someone cites Kate's mother saying Madeleine would have screamed the place down if she'd beem in the process of being abducted, 'kay?

I was actually thinking of Kate McCann saying her daughter wouldn't leave their apartment despite having told her friends that the patio doors were left unlocked specifically so that her daughter could do just that. A mother who actually contradicts her own opinion of her daughter.

A family source said: "Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted and simply didn’t get up and wander off to her fate.

"To suggest this is almost ridiculous.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-cop-believes-madeleine-mccann-16340466

she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up'
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

I remember Gerry saying that they did not treat the matter with urgency and only stated that Madeleine must have left on her own and that she would be back later. It was so frustrating, Madeleine did not do things like that, she was not that kind of girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #170 on: January 20, 2021, 01:34:23 PM »
I was actually thinking of Kate McCann saying her daughter wouldn't leave their apartment despite having told her friends that the patio doors were left unlocked specifically so that her daughter could do just that. A mother who actually contradicts her own opinion of her daughter.

A family source said: "Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted and simply didn’t get up and wander off to her fate.

"To suggest this is almost ridiculous.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-cop-believes-madeleine-mccann-16340466

she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up'
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

I remember Gerry saying that they did not treat the matter with urgency and only stated that Madeleine must have left on her own and that she would be back later. It was so frustrating, Madeleine did not do things like that, she was not that kind of girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Sorry, which one of those is a direct quote from Kate?
And - are you now arguing that no one would know how a specific child would react to being carried out of their bed and apartment by an abuctor despite you previously using Kate's mother's interview as evidence that Madeleine would have screamed the place down?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 01:36:56 PM by Vertigo Swirl »
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #171 on: January 20, 2021, 07:58:53 PM »
Sorry, which one of those is a direct quote from Kate?
And - are you now arguing that no one would know how a specific child would react to being carried out of their bed and apartment by an abuctor despite you previously using Kate's mother's interview as evidence that Madeleine would have screamed the place down?

No-one knows another person completely, not even the person's mother.
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #172 on: January 20, 2021, 08:14:51 PM »
No-one knows another person completely, not even the person's mother.
And a person’s grandmother even less so.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #173 on: January 20, 2021, 11:12:53 PM »
And a person’s grandmother even less so.

Quoting what someone says doesn't indicate agreement with them.
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #174 on: January 20, 2021, 11:49:14 PM »
Quoting what someone says doesn't indicate agreement with them.
strange  you would refer to it so regularly then.  On at least three separate occasions that I can see using a very basic search.  Good to know you don’t agree with it though and that you don’t now accept that Madeleine would definitely have behaved as her grandmother described.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #175 on: January 21, 2021, 10:11:04 AM »
strange  you would refer to it so regularly then.  On at least three separate occasions that I can see using a very basic search.  Good to know you don’t agree with it though and that you don’t now accept that Madeleine would definitely have behaved as her grandmother described.

I expect the clue lies in what was being discussed at the time. I don't believe anyone who thinks they can predict with certainty what another person can/will do.
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #176 on: January 21, 2021, 11:03:16 AM »
I expect the clue lies in what was being discussed at the time. I don't believe anyone who thinks they can predict with certainty what another person can/will do.
I think young children and toddlers are quite unpredictable, yes, but that the older a child is, the longer you have lived with him or her (particularly one with special needs that limit their movements and attitudes to risk taking or dangers) the more likely you are to be able to judge what they are and are not likely to do.  IMO.   
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #177 on: February 24, 2021, 07:32:54 PM »
The point is: The parents are wholly responsible for the care of their children. Both Noras' parents said they heard muffled sounds but didn't go and check on their children?  The coroner said their was no evidence of abduction. For the parents to sue the resort is tacky, disgusting and shows their greed  and denial of responsibility. similar to the McCANNS other Tapas team IMO.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Brietta

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #178 on: June 16, 2021, 03:41:39 PM »
Evening Standard
Nóra Quoirin death: Judge overturns ‘misadventure’ verdict in fresh boost for family
Tristan Kirk 16/06/21

The family of a London teenager who died in the Malaysian jungle have received a boost as a judge overturned the inquest verdict that she had died of “misadventure”.

Nóra Quoirin’s body was found next to a stream in August 2019, nine days after she had gone missing from the eco-resort where she was staying with her parents.

The 15-year-old, a pupil at Garratt Park School in Earlsfield, south London, vanished from her room at the Dusun resort in Malaysia the day after they arrived on August 3, 2019.

Her parents believe the teenager, who suffered from a disorder affecting brain development, would never have left the property on her own and must have been abducted.

They say it would have been impossible for the teenager to navigate the terrain alone from their chalet to the spot where she was eventually found dead.

But to their dismay in January a coroner recorded a verdict of ‘misadventure’ and ruled out the involvement of anyone else in the death.

At the Malaysian High Court today, Judge Azizul Adnan overturned the conclusion and replaced it with an “open verdict”, saying there was “no credible evidence to support any other verdict”.

The ruling is a boost for Nóra’s parents, Meabh and Sebastien, as it leaves open the possibility of someone being involved in their daughter’s disappearance and death.

Mrs Quoirin had previous said she believes her daughter’s body was placed in the spot where she was found, saying there are "so many questions...left unanswered".

The teenager’s disappearance sparked a massive search operation in the jungle surrounding the eco-resort.

The spot where her body was eventually discovered is around 1.6 miles from the property where the family were staying, and had been searched prior to the finding of Nóra.

The family have questioned the effectiveness of the search operation, saying crucial DNA evidence was lost during the nine-day period spent hunting for Nóra.

The teenager had been wearing only underwear when she went missing, and was naked when her body was found. She had died from intestinal bleeding due to starvation and stress, pathologists found, but they could not rule out the possibility of sexual assault.

Giving evidence to the inquest, Mrs Quoirin said they heard “muffled whispering” on the night of the disappearance, and Nora was gone when they went to wake her the following morning.

She said her daughter’s disabilities would have made it impossible for her to open the window alone, and insisted if the teenager had got outside she would most likely have sat down to wait for help.

"I have a number of very precise reasons to believe that my daughter was kidnapped. How or why, I’m not qualified to say," she told coroner Maimoonah Aid.

But he went on to rule: “There was no-one involved in the death of Nora Anne.

“It is more probable than not that she died by misadventure, i.e. that she had gone out of the (cottage) on her own and subsequently got lost in the abundant palm oil plantation.”

Overturning that decision, the High Court judge found it was "not probable" Nóra would have left her chalet alone at night, nor that she could "have navigated by herself the challenging terrain in and around the location where she was eventually found".

He added she was a "shy and retiring child who was uncurious and unadventurous, and who was strongly attached emotionally to her parents", and it was "unlikely" she would go out on her own.

Following his ruling, Judge Adnan told the family: "We have not been able to assist you in finding the answers that you may have been seeking, but I hope that these proceedings would have assisted you in some way on the long road towards healing".

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/n%C3%B3ra-quoirin-death-judge-overturns-misadventure-verdict-in-fresh-boost-for-family/ar-AAL6M3z?ocid=msedgntp
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"