UK Justice Forum

Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Teams_UP on February 04, 2021, 09:40:12 AM

Title: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 04, 2021, 09:40:12 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to the board; thanks for accepting me.  I'm after a favour!  Full disclosure; I'm currently writing a book about contentious cases and, of course, Jeremy's case features. 

The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty, but to look into forums like this and ask posters what it is that motivates them to discuss the case.  Does anyone have any thoughts or would be willing to chat to me about it?

Also I'll be honest - I find this and the Blue Forum quite confusing, could explain a bit of the history for me? 

Thank you so much in advance  8(0(* 8((()*/
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 10, 2021, 09:29:00 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to the board; thanks for accepting me.  I'm after a favour!  Full disclosure; I'm currently writing a book about contentious cases and, of course, Jeremy's case features. 

The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty, but to look into forums like this and ask posters what it is that motivates them to discuss the case.  Does anyone have any thoughts or would be willing to chat to me about it?

Also I'll be honest - I find this and the Blue Forum quite confusing, could explain a bit of the history for me? 

Thank you so much in advance  8(0(* 8((()*/

Hi Helen - welcome to the board  8((()*/

Am interested to know why you appear to deem Bamber’s case ‘contentious’ ?

He’s clearly committing innocence fraud and has been doing so for over 3 decades!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=smTH371hP5o
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: colsville on February 10, 2021, 11:30:31 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to the board; thanks for accepting me.  I'm after a favour!  Full disclosure; I'm currently writing a book about contentious cases and, of course, Jeremy's case features. 

The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty, but to look into forums like this and ask posters what it is that motivates them to discuss the case.  Does anyone have any thoughts or would be willing to chat to me about it?

Also I'll be honest - I find this and the Blue Forum quite confusing, could explain a bit of the history for me? 

Thank you so much in advance  8(0(* 8((()*/


From a legal point of view, there is nothing contentious about the Jeremy Bamber case. There is very strong, and even overwhelming evidence that points to guilt on Jeremy's part.  Evidence against him has got even stronger over the years as forensic analysis has become more advanced.

This has been tested many times in court over the last 35 years. 

It is the legal right of every prisoner in the UK to access all the evidence on his or her case, and to contest their guilt, even if the evidence forwarded to the legal authorities is weak, complete nonsense, or even faked evidence.

Jeremy Bamber has been submitting faked and fabricated evidence to the legal authorities over the last 35 years.  His latest effort was dismissed by the CCRC as 'pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations'   

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-bid-rejected-7681474.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-bid-rejected-7681474.html)

So, if anything about this case is contentious, it's about whether Jeremy Bamber should be allowed to submit faked evidence or not.  And should newspapers be printing his press releases pretty much verbatim, without applying any analysis?

Your subject matter is very narrow.  Just out of interest, who is going to buy a book on the subject of 'why people talk about Jeremy Bamber on forums?' 

Do you have a publisher, or is this a self published effort?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 10, 2021, 12:00:16 PM
and, of course, Jeremy's case features. 

The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty, but to look into forums like this and ask posters what it is that motivates them to discuss the case

Why ‘of course Jeremy’s case’ ?

And what motivates you?

Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?

Daniel was found with his thumb in his mouth Helen..

Have your read the letters Bamber sent to Nicholas and Daniel’s father Colin (Another of his victims) from his prison cell?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/features/in-cold-blood-the-white-house-farm-murders-38871349.html

I see you’re also planning to include the Amanda Knox and Menendez brothers cases - is this to help with the work you do or is their another motivation?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 10, 2021, 12:28:59 PM

From a legal point of view, there is nothing contentious about the Jeremy Bamber case. There is very strong, and even overwhelming evidence that points to guilt on Jeremy's part.  Evidence against him has got even stronger over the years as forensic analysis has become more advanced.

This has been tested many times in court over the last 35 years. 

It is the legal right of every prisoner in the UK to access all the evidence on his or her case, and to contest their guilt, even if the evidence forwarded to the legal authorities is weak, complete nonsense, or even faked evidence.

Jeremy Bamber has been submitting faked and fabricated evidence to the legal authorities over the last 35 years.  His latest effort was dismissed by the CCRC as 'pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations'   

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-bid-rejected-7681474.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-bid-rejected-7681474.html)

So, if anything about this case is contentious, it's about whether Jeremy Bamber should be allowed to submit faked evidence or not.  And should newspapers be printing his press releases pretty much verbatim, without applying any analysis?

Your subject matter is very narrow.  Just out of interest, who is going to buy a book on the subject of 'why people talk about Jeremy Bamber on forums?' 

Do you have a publisher, or is this a self published effort?  Just curious.

Sorry - I hadn’t listened to your podcast when I posted my previous questions/posts above 👆🏽 Helen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cea8Qt08J5o

Helen has written to Bamber and received a letter from him and is ‘hoping to correspond with him a bit

She’s also hoping to send her proposals out to a publisher apparently - so it doesn’t look like it will be a self published effort colsville

Will be interesting to hear what she hopes to achieve by writing her book and also learn more about the type of person she is
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 10, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to the board; thanks for accepting me.  I'm after a favour!  Full disclosure; I'm currently writing a book about contentious cases and, of course, Jeremy's case features. 

The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty, but to look into forums like this and ask posters what it is that motivates them to discuss the case.  Does anyone have any thoughts or would be willing to chat to me about it?

Also I'll be honest - I find this and the Blue Forum quite confusing, could explain a bit of the history for me? 

Thank you so much in advance  8(0(* 8((()*/

Who said to you ‘Cases like this always bring out the nuts’ ?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: colsville on February 10, 2021, 02:03:04 PM
Sorry - I hadn’t listened to your podcast when I posted my previous questions/posts above 👆🏽 Helen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cea8Qt08J5o

Helen has written to Bamber and received a letter from him and is ‘hoping to correspond with him a bit

She’s also hoping to send her proposals out to a publisher apparently - so it doesn’t look like it will be a self published effort colsville

Will be interesting to hear what she hopes to achieve by writing her book and also learn more about the type of person she is


I still don't see the point of writing a book about people who use forums to talk about true crime. Like...who cares? I can see why people write books about true crime though (kerching - although I have huge respect for Carol Ann Lee).

One of her questions was "Where do they find the time to write on these forums?"

Well....

Where do people find the time to watch telly?
Where do people find the time to play computer games?
Where do people find the time to write a blog?
Where do people find the time to post to their Instagram account?
Where do people find the time to read books?

And so on and so on....

Still, she gets to correspond with a famous murderer, that'll be nice for her.  She made it sound as though she was flattered that he replied....She should ask him about Ann Eaton and Julie Mugford....wind him up and let him go...She'll get the full force of his inner rage if she does.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:09:02 AM
Hi both, and thank you for your replies.  Also thank you for taking the time to listen to the podcast I recorded recently which as you say may have answered a few questions, but I'll try and answer some of the others below.

Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
Why ‘of course Jeremy’s case’ ?

And what motivates you?

Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?

Daniel was found with his thumb in his mouth Helen..

Have your read the letters Bamber sent to Nicholas and Daniel’s father Colin (Another of his victims) from his prison cell?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/features/in-cold-blood-the-white-house-farm-murders-38871349.html

I see you’re also planning to include the Amanda Knox and Menendez brothers cases - is this to help with the work you do or is their another motivation?

Firstly, the fact that the case is still being debated nearly 36 years later to me makes it contentious.  I've chosen 6 different cases to discuss; this one, Amanda Knox, Darlie Routier, The Menendez Brothers, JonBenet Ramsey and Lizzie Borden.  This is on the basis that they still hold a fascination and people continue to discuss them.

Secondly, at no point did I say that I thought or think that Jeremy is innocent.  I am in no way 'promoting' him. 
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:20:37 AM
Who said to you ‘Cases like this always bring out the nuts’ ?

It's a quote from one of the forums I'm on; I think this one actually refers to the Darlie Routier case.  Ironically, it was posted by one of the forum members talking about others who don't agree with her; it's not my opinion.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:23:54 AM

Still, she gets to correspond with a famous murderer, that'll be nice for her.  She made it sound as though she was flattered that he replied....She should ask him about Ann Eaton and Julie Mugford....wind him up and let him go...She'll get the full force of his inner rage if she does.

There's nothing 'nice' for me writing to convicted murderer.  I wasn't flattered, I was pleased from a professional point of view.  Again, at no point have I said that I think he is innocent.  I'm writing to him as I'm interested to hear what he thinks about the discussions which take place around his case.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:29:08 AM

Will be interesting to hear what she hopes to achieve by writing her book and also learn more about the type of person she is

I'm the type of person who has an interest in true crime, and the psychology behind our fascination with it.  But I understand that my motivation is not necessarily the same as everyone else's which is why I've decided to write this book.  Would you be happy to tell me what you gain personally from discussing the case on here?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:32:21 AM

Your subject matter is very narrow.  Just out of interest, who is going to buy a book on the subject of 'why people talk about Jeremy Bamber on forums?' 

Do you have a publisher, or is this a self published effort?  Just curious.

Thanks Colville, I've just covered this in another reply but I've chosen 6 cases; Jeremy's is no more prominent than the other 5.  The subject matter is not just about the forums, it's about what happened in each case, why (or why not) the person was convicted, and public reaction to it from then on.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:34:40 AM

I still don't see the point of writing a book about people who use forums to talk about true crime. Like...who cares? I can see why people write books about true crime though (kerching - although I have huge respect for Carol Ann Lee).


Of course, you may be right and no-one will want to read it.  But I am finding it a fascinating subject to write about so from a personal point of view I have achieved a long standing goal.  That's enough for me, but I also strongly believe it is a subject of interest to others.  Also, it's not just about talking about true crime; I do this my self and am fascinated by it.  But my motivation will not be the same as others; are you happy to tell me what you gain from discussing the case on here?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 09:40:23 AM

One of her questions was "Where do they find the time to write on these forums?"

Well....

Where do people find the time to watch telly?
Where do people find the time to play computer games?
Where do people find the time to write a blog?
Where do people find the time to post to their Instagram account?
Where do people find the time to read books?

And so on and so on....


I'm not quite sure what your point is here; of course I could choose to ask any of those questions but I didn't, I chose the subject of true crime forums.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Firstly, the fact that the case is still being debated nearly 36 years later to me makes it contentious.  I've chosen 6 different cases to discuss; this one, Amanda Knox, Darlie Routier, The Menendez Brothers, JonBenet Ramsey and Lizzie Borden.  This is on the basis that they still hold a fascination and people continue to discuss them.

Secondly, at no point did I say that I thought or think that Jeremy is innocent.  I am in no way 'promoting' him.

By writing about Bamber you are ‘promoting’ him
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
Who said to you ‘Cases like this always bring out the nuts’ ?

It's a quote from one of the forums I'm on; I think this one actually refers to the Darlie Routier case.  Ironically, it was posted by one of the forum members talking about others who don't agree with her; it's not my opinion.

What’s ironic about it - can you explain some more?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 01:57:50 PM
There's nothing 'nice' for me writing to convicted murderer.  I wasn't flattered, I was pleased from a professional point of view.  Again, at no point have I said that I think he is innocent.  I'm writing to him as I'm interested to hear what he thinks about the discussions which take place around his case.

Can you explain what you mean by being ’pleased’ by this?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 02:17:03 PM
I'm the type of person who has an interest in true crime, and the psychology behind our fascination with it.  But I understand that my motivation is not necessarily the same as everyone else's which is why I've decided to write this book.  Would you be happy to tell me what you gain personally from discussing the case on here?

Are you then of the view people who post on these types of forums also have an interest in true crime?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 03:04:27 PM
Thanks for replying, I’ll answer all at once for clarity.

I disagree that I’m promoting Jeremy Bamber.  Writing a book proclaiming his innocence and campaigning for his release would be a promotion, in my opinion.  That’s not what I am writing

The forum in question involves people who think someone is guilty arguing with people who think they are innocent.  The irony of the comment is that each side thinks the other is ‘nuts’. 

I wrote the letter hoping for a response, which is what I got.  Therefore, I was pleased. 

If I am being naïve, it’s that I thought you might be happy to share your experiences and thoughts with me.  I honestly didn’t expect such defensiveness and I’m a bit baffled as to where it’s come from.

As I have answered your questions will you answer mine?  Can you explain what you gain personally from participating in these discussions?  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 03:06:41 PM
Are you then of the view people who post on these types of forums also have an interest in true crime?

No.  You're putting words in my mouth.  You were wondering what type of person 'she' is (I presume you meant me) so I was replying to let you know.

Are you saying you don't have an interest in true crime?  I genuinely don't know why you are so defensive; I would be really interested to hear what your thoughts are.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: puglove on February 22, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
Thanks for replying, I’ll answer all at once for clarity.

I disagree that I’m promoting Jeremy Bamber.  Writing a book proclaiming his innocence and campaigning for his release would be a promotion, in my opinion.  That’s not what I am writing

The forum in question involves people who think someone is guilty arguing with people who think they are innocent.  The irony of the comment is that each side thinks the other is ‘nuts’. 

I wrote the letter hoping for a response, which is what I got.  Therefore, I was pleased. 

If I am being naïve, it’s that I thought you might be happy to share your experiences and thoughts with me.  I honestly didn’t expect such defensiveness and I’m a bit baffled as to where it’s come from.

As I have answered your questions will you answer mine?  Can you explain what you gain personally from participating in these discussions?  Thanks in advance.

Hi Teams Up.

For me it stretches my brain a bit, because I spend most of my time shovelling up different types of plop. I did get very involved (not so much now, everything has been done to death) because so many Bamber supporters come across as blinkered and ignorant of the basic facts of the case. And a lot of them are just total fruitloops and their posts (on the blue forum) are very funny!

Good luck with what you're doing.     8((()*/
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 05:05:09 PM
And a lot of them are just total fruitloops and their posts (on the blue forum) are very funny!

Good luck with what you're doing.     8((()*/

Thanks puglove! Your job sounds fun  8(0(*

Yes, I kind of got the impression that the Blue forum is 'pro' as opposed to the Red Forum, but equally lots of you also post on the Blue is that right?

If you don't mind me asking, what would you say the motivation of this forum is in general? Given that Jeremy is already in prison and not going anywhere then I guess it's not a sense of justice not served?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 05:30:42 PM
because so many Bamber supporters come across as blinkered and ignorant of the basic facts of the case. And a lot of them are just total fruitloops and their posts (on the blue forum) are very funny!


I've realised you've already answered this to a certain extent 👆🏻a need to try and educate supporters perhaps?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: puglove on February 22, 2021, 06:17:09 PM
Thanks puglove! Your job sounds fun  8(0(*

Yes, I kind of got the impression that the Blue forum is 'pro' as opposed to the Red Forum, but equally lots of you also post on the Blue is that right?

If you don't mind me asking, what would you say the motivation of this forum is in general? Given that Jeremy is already in prison and not going anywhere then I guess it's not a sense of justice not served?

Thanks!

I'm permanently banned from blue (think Rowley Birkin) and John very kindly lets me dick about on here.

It's a cyclical thing with Bamber - every few years he gets "discovered", there's a little flurry of indignant excitement (always the same - Julie, Sheila's mental health and the phone log), Bamber promises to be out by that Christmas, then it all dies down. Some people feel very protective towards the memories of Sheila and her boys. Carol Ann Lee's book and the subsequent TV series did a lot of good.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Myster on February 22, 2021, 06:25:48 PM
Yep, this board is full of ill-legal immigrants (except me) but they had to flee from the Barnsley Burglar's clutches somehow... otherwise their brains would have been prematurely addled.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 06:36:06 PM
One of her questions was "Where do they find the time to write on these forums?"

Well....

Where do people find the time to watch telly?
Where do people find the time to play computer games?
Where do people find the time to write a blog?
Where do people find the time to post to their Instagram account?
Where do people find the time to read books?

And so on and so on....

I'm not quite sure what your point is here; of course I could choose to ask any of those questions but I didn't, I chose the subject of true crime forums.

Colsville may answer this post but in the meantime

You stated during the podcast ‘I don’t know how they find the time


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cea8Qt08J5o


And also - ‘because they’re not going to change the course of a case at all’

What makes you think this?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 07:38:20 PM
Yep, this board is full of ill-legal immigrants (except me) but they had to flee from the Barnsley Burglar's clutches somehow... otherwise their brains would have been prematurely addled.

Thanks Myster, so now I'm more confused, who is the Barnsley Burglar?!
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 07:41:21 PM
I'm permanently banned from blue (think Rowley Birkin) and John very kindly lets me dick about on here.

It's a cyclical thing with Bamber - every few years he gets "discovered", there's a little flurry of indignant excitement (always the same - Julie, Sheila's mental health and the phone log), Bamber promises to be out by that Christmas, then it all dies down. Some people feel very protective towards the memories of Sheila and her boys. Carol Ann Lee's book and the subsequent TV series did a lot of good.

I'm guessing that being permanently banned is not necessarily a bad thing?! I agree, Carol Ann Lee's book is the source I've used for reference; excellent detail and also the TV drama following it has heightened the profile of the case too.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 07:45:50 PM
Colsville may answer this post but in the meantime

You stated during the podcast ‘I don’t know how they find the time

And also - ‘because they’re not going to change the course of a case at all’

What makes you think this?

This is getting a bit tedious now (although I suspect that is your aim). Are you saying that you think you can singlehandedly change the outcome of a court case?  Although, on that note, Jeremy is already in prison, what are you trying to prove?!  I note that you have still not answered any of my questions although I've done you the courtesy of answering yours.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: puglove on February 22, 2021, 07:46:14 PM
Thanks Myster, so now I'm more confused, who is the Barnsley Burglar?!

Ah, this made me laugh! Myster means Mike Tesko, boss of blue. There's a video of him on here somewhere, sitting on his sister's toilet and talking in an American accent!
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 07:50:43 PM
Ah, this made me laugh! Myster means Mike Tesko, boss of blue. There's a video of him on here somewhere, sitting on his sister's toilet and talking in an American accent!

 @)(++(* the plot thickens!  Mike seems to be a bit of an enigma!!  One thing I don't understand which you may be able to help with?  There is a sub on here described as 'A forum by Jeremy Bamber supporters dedicated to having his conviction overturned. Created by Mike Teskowski' but he doesn't seem to have anything to do with it or have ever posted on it?  Sorry I'm probably asking stupid questions but trying to make sense of it all!!
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
Bamber promises to be out by that Christmas, then it all dies down.

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought there was a parallel here with Donald Trump - 'we won this election, just wait the proof will be revealed soon...'   *tumbleweed*
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: puglove on February 22, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
@)(++(* the plot thickens!  Mike seems to be a bit of an enigma!!  One thing I don't understand which you may be able to help with?  There is a sub on here described as 'A forum by Jeremy Bamber supporters dedicated to having his conviction overturned. Created by Mike Teskowski' but he doesn't seem to have anything to do with it or have ever posted on it?  Sorry I'm probably asking stupid questions but trying to make sense of it all!!

I think it just refers to the blue forum being created by Mike Tesko. As was the world in 7 days, and the cure for piles.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 08:45:22 PM
This is getting a bit tedious now (although I suspect that is your aim). Are you saying that you think you can singlehandedly change the outcome of a court case?  Although, on that note, Jeremy is already in prison, what are you trying to prove?!  I note that you have still not answered any of my questions although I've done you the courtesy of answering yours.

In your podcast you stated ‘course of a case” now your saying ‘court case’ ?

And also - ‘because they’re not going to change the course of a case at all’

What makes you think this?

You are wrong about your comment ‘they’re not going to change the course of a case at all’
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 22, 2021, 08:46:36 PM
I think it just refers to the blue forum being created by Mike Tesko. As was the world in 7 days, and the cure for piles.

Thank you, that makes sense!  Thanks for clarifying 8((()*/
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2021, 08:54:41 PM
I'm guessing that being permanently banned is not necessarily a bad thing?! I agree, Carol Ann Lee's book is the source I've used for reference; excellent detail and also the TV drama following it has heightened the profile of the case too.

Are you suggesting that’s a good thing ?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: colsville on February 23, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
If I haven't upset you then I seem to have triggered some sort of negative reaction towards me, unless this is how you speak to/deal with everyone who asks you a question?  Again, you've countered my question with another question.

If someone wants to answer a question with a question, so what?  Why does it bother you.  Just leave it and  move on.

Going round arguing with people isn't going to help you write your book....is it?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: APRIL on February 23, 2021, 10:35:38 AM
If someone wants to answer a question with a question, so what?  Why does it bother you.  Just leave it and  move on.

Going round arguing with people isn't going to help you write your book....is it?


How is it, that in a dialogue/debate/discussion between two people, only one of them is seen to be arguing?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 23, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
If someone wants to answer a question with a question, so what?  Why does it bother you.  Just leave it and  move on.

Going round arguing with people isn't going to help you write your book....is it?

You are mistaken colsville, I'm not arguing with anyone.  I'm asking questions.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 23, 2021, 11:19:35 AM
Can anyone tell me why some of my posts have disappeared?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: colsville on February 23, 2021, 11:26:21 AM

How is it, that in a dialogue/debate/discussion between two people, only one of them is seen to be arguing?

Publishing someone's online time, down to the number of seconds, is not helpful, and I would say, inflammatory.

If you went online about 15-20 years ago, and two people were arguing, one person might make a derogatory remark along the lines of....'don't you have anything better to so with your time?'

.....or....

'you're the one who spends all their time on this forum'' 

Those kinds of comments were designed to antagonise the other person.
Forum behaviour has matured over the years, and you rarely see those kinds of comments.

But..... that is what Helen appears to be doing, even if she doesn't realise it.  This kind of behaviour is unhelpful on forums, because it often means that tempers rise, and everything goes off topic and personal.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 23, 2021, 11:32:15 AM
Publishing someone's online time, down to the number of seconds, is not helpful, and I would say, inflammatory.

If you went online about 15-20 years ago, and two people were arguing, one person might make a derogatory remark along the lines of....'don't you have anything better to so with your time?'

.....or....

'you're the one who spends all their time on this forum'' 

Those kinds of comments were designed to antagonise the other person.
Forum behaviour has matured over the years, and you rarely see those kinds of comments.

But..... that is what Helen appears to be doing, even if she doesn't realise it.  This kind of behaviour is unhelpful on forums, because it often means that tempers rise, and everything goes off topic and personal.

In that case, I apologise for posting those stats.  Thank you for the clarification.   
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 23, 2021, 11:53:30 AM
This kind of behaviour is unhelpful on forums, because it often means that tempers rise, and everything goes off topic and personal.

I suppose it doesn't matter that Nicholas first antagonised me with:

"Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?

Daniel was found with his thumb in his mouth Helen.. "

before bothering to find out what my views were on the subject?   I find this personal and upsetting, to suggest that I don't care about the victims and even worse, assuming that I believe the 'false narrative'?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 12:04:22 PM
I suppose it doesn't matter that Nicholas first antagonised me with:

"Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?

Daniel was found with his thumb in his mouth Helen.. "

before bothering to find out what my views were on the subject?   I find this personal and upsetting, to suggest that I don't care about the victims and even worse, assuming that I believe the 'false narrative'?

Your first post stated ‘The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty’

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the board; thanks for accepting me.  I'm after a favour!  Full disclosure; I'm currently writing a book about contentious cases and, of course, Jeremy's case features. 

The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty, but to look into forums like this and ask posters what it is that motivates them to discuss the case.  Does anyone have any thoughts or would be willing to chat to me about it?

Also I'll be honest - I find this and the Blue Forum quite confusing, could explain a bit of the history for me? 

Thank you so much in advance  8(0(* 8((()*/
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 12:11:14 PM
I suppose it doesn't matter that Nicholas first antagonised me with:

"Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?

Daniel was found with his thumb in his mouth Helen.. "

before bothering to find out what my views were on the subject?   I find this personal and upsetting, to suggest that I don't care about the victims and even worse, assuming that I believe the 'false narrative'?

Where have I suggested this?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 23, 2021, 12:12:18 PM
Your first post stated ‘The point of the book is not to discuss if he's innocent or guilty’

Exactly.  So why make an assumption about my feelings about the case?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 12:18:00 PM
Exactly.  So why make an assumption about my feelings about the case?

What is it you are claiming I’ve assumed about your ‘feelings about the case’?

And how is it you can write to a convicted mass murderer and child killer in a ‘professional’ capacity yet someone how lose your professionalism - as I see it - when you post on this forum?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: APRIL on February 23, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
Publishing someone's online time, down to the number of seconds, is not helpful, and I would say, inflammatory.

If you went online about 15-20 years ago, and two people were arguing, one person might make a derogatory remark along the lines of....'don't you have anything better to so with your time?'

.....or....

'you're the one who spends all their time on this forum'' 

Those kinds of comments were designed to antagonise the other person.
Forum behaviour has matured over the years, and you rarely see those kinds of comments.

But..... that is what Helen appears to be doing, even if she doesn't realise it.  This kind of behaviour is unhelpful on forums, because it often means that tempers rise, and everything goes off topic and personal.


Mmm. There's something here about cause and effect, isn't there. Person A makes a comment which appears to inflame person B and their answer comes in the form of an attack/accusation, as opposed to them asking what was the meaning of the comment. Such things have the habit of developing lives of their own.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on February 23, 2021, 01:31:47 PM
What is it you are claiming I’ve assumed about your ‘feelings about the case’?

And how is it you can write to a convicted mass murderer and child killer in a ‘professional’ capacity yet someone how lose your professionalism - as I see it - when you post on this forum?

You're assuming, because I have never told you my feelings about the case and yet you ask me 'Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?'.  That is a huge assumption.

I'm writing a non-fiction book which I hope to be published.  A publisher will, quite rightly, expect detailed research to have been carried out; I can't just write whatever I feel like.  Writing to Jeremy and posting on this forum are both forms of research; how is that unprofessional?

I'm going to step away now, as I don't think this is helping anyone.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 01:45:17 PM

I'm writing a non-fiction book which I hope to be published.  A publisher will, quite rightly, expect detailed research to have been carried out; I can't just write whatever I feel like.  Writing to Jeremy and posting on this forum are both forms of research; how is that unprofessional?

That depends on the type of publisher I suspect

How many true crime books do you know where publishers fact check everything that is written?

Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
You're assuming, because I have never told you my feelings about the case and yet you ask me 'Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?'.  That is a huge assumption.

After the above I posted

Sorry - I hadn’t listened to your podcast when I posted my previous questions/posts above 👆🏽 Helen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cea8Qt08J5o


This is a transcribe of a small part of your podcast on the book you’re writing

I thought okay I’ve got time on my hands I mean Christmas was obviously manic but I am I have got time on my hands I’ve always wanted to write a book um I used to think I wanted to write a fiction book but I’ve realised that I’m not it’s not my kind of forte and I don’t think I could ever write a book that anyone would actually want to read if that makes sense whereas non fiction true crime is just you know fits me perfectly and I've had an idea for a long time about a book that sort of delves into the world of true crime addicts erm armchair detectives web-sleuths whatever you want to call them who spend commit quite a lot of their time to basically discussing murder cases on forums and online and when I say quite a lot of the time sometimes bordering on the obsessive you know literally I don’t know what else I don’t know how they find the time erm and just like looking at why they do that what what their motivation is erm what they hope to achieve erm by doing this because you know their not going to change the course of a case at all so I’ve taken sort of six I think cases that I think are really erm that are really sort of contentious and people you know people have heard of quite a lot erm and then sort of investigated the type of people that talk about them

I recognise some of the motivations for why people post on forums - including my own

It’s not something I’m prepared to discuss/debate with you though because it’s their choice if they wish to communicate with you about their motivations

I know the history of this forum in particular (there was another forum before it) and am fairly familiar with the blue forum
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 01:57:55 PM
I can't just write whatever I feel like.

You can - and some people do - especially on ‘true crime’
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 02:09:55 PM
because I have never told you my feelings about the case

This was an indicator ⬇️

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought there was a parallel here with Donald Trump - 'we won this election, just wait the proof will be revealed soon...'   *tumbleweed*
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 02:13:38 PM
Writing to Jeremy and posting on this forum are both forms of research; how is that unprofessional?

When your write to ‘Jeremy’ do you or will you also include comments like this  ⬇️

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought there was a parallel here with Donald Trump - 'we won this election, just wait the proof will be revealed soon...'   *tumbleweed*

And if not why not?

Your above post was in response to ⬇️

, Bamber promises to be out by that Christmas, then it all dies down.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 02:37:12 PM
I suppose it doesn't matter that Nicholas first antagonised me with:

"Why would you choose to promote the 30 plus year old false narrative of a man who murdered his dad Nevill, his mum June, his sister Sheila and his 6 year old nephews Nicholas and Daniel in cold blood?

Daniel was found with his thumb in his mouth Helen.. "

before bothering to find out what my views were on the subject?   I find this personal and upsetting, to suggest that I don't care about the victims and even worse, assuming that I believe the 'false narrative'?

What about Bamber’s crimes ?

Not just the fact he murdered 5 members of his family but that he’s chosen to attempt to exploit the workings of the criminal justice system - for over 3 decades - in an attempt to free himself from prison?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 04:08:25 PM
After the above I posted

This is a transcribe of a small part of your podcast on the book you’re writing

I thought okay I’ve got time on my hands I mean Christmas was obviously manic but I am I have got time on my hands I’ve always wanted to write a book um I used to think I wanted to write a fiction book but I’ve realised that I’m not it’s not my kind of forte and I don’t think I could ever write a book that anyone would actually want to read if that makes sense whereas non fiction true crime is just you know fits me perfectly and I've had an idea for a long time about a book that sort of delves into the world of true crime addicts erm armchair detectives web-sleuths whatever you want to call them who spend commit quite a lot of their time to basically discussing murder cases on forums and online and when I say quite a lot of the time sometimes bordering on the obsessive you know literally I don’t know what else I don’t know how they find the time erm and just like looking at why they do that what what their motivation is erm what they hope to achieve erm by doing this because you know their not going to change the course of a case at all so I’ve taken sort of six I think cases that I think are really erm that are really sort of contentious and people you know people have heard of quite a lot erm and then sort of investigated the type of people that talk about them

I recognise some of the motivations for why people post on forums - including my own

It’s not something I’m prepared to discuss/debate with you though because it’s their choice if they wish to communicate with you about their motivations

I know the history of this forum in particular (there was another forum before it) and am fairly familiar with the blue forum

Oh & I don’t consider myself to be a ‘true crime addict - armchair detective or web-sleuth’

Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 04:14:59 PM
This is getting a bit tedious now (although I suspect that is your aim). Are you saying that you think you can singlehandedly change the outcome of a court case?  Although, on that note, Jeremy is already in prison, what are you trying to prove?!  I note that you have still not answered any of my questions although I've done you the courtesy of answering yours.

How and why did you make the leap from me asking ‘What makes you think this?’ in response to your claim of ‘because they’re not going to change the course of a case at all

And also - ‘because they’re not going to change the course of a case at all’
What makes you think this?

to

Are you saying that you think you can singlehandedly change the outcome of a court case?’

I’d be interested to know

Do you view a ‘court case’ and ‘course of a case’ as one and the same?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Nicholas on February 23, 2021, 04:42:05 PM
  I am in no way 'promoting' him.

This ⬇️

I'm writing to him as I'm interested to hear what he thinks about the discussions which take place around his case.

could suggest otherwise

?

Have you contacted Colin Caffell as well?
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Caroline on March 23, 2021, 02:05:14 PM
Thanks for replying, I’ll answer all at once for clarity.

I disagree that I’m promoting Jeremy Bamber.  Writing a book proclaiming his innocence and campaigning for his release would be a promotion, in my opinion.  That’s not what I am writing

The forum in question involves people who think someone is guilty arguing with people who think they are innocent.  The irony of the comment is that each side thinks the other is ‘nuts’. 

I wrote the letter hoping for a response, which is what I got.  Therefore, I was pleased. 

If I am being naïve, it’s that I thought you might be happy to share your experiences and thoughts with me.  I honestly didn’t expect such defensiveness and I’m a bit baffled as to where it’s come from.

As I have answered your questions will you answer mine?  Can you explain what you gain personally from participating in these discussions?  Thanks in advance.

Personally, I don't think people who think Bamber is innocent are nuts even though I think he's guilty. People who get personal during a debate on the other hand .....

Why do people debate anything? It's simply our topic for discussion, but it could be anything. For instance, there is a Facebook page about old school puddings which gets even more heated that the forums on Bamber  @)(++(*.

Not sure what thoughts and experiences you're after, reading the posts would probably get you what you want? However, it isn't just the Bamber case that is discussed on these forums, I'm interested to know why you have singled out that particular case? In fact on this forum, the Madeline McCann case is far more popular - so why not that one?

I guess the defensiveness comes from past experience of others who have claimed similar research but have harboured ulterior motives.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on March 29, 2021, 04:38:23 PM
Thanks Caroline, I must check out the pudding site!!  @)(++(*

Just to clarify, the 'nuts' comment was taken from another forum; their thoughts not mine!  And I definitely have no ulterior motives, although I appreciate that you've got no reason to believe me as I'm a total stranger!   But I am honestly just writing a book about 6 cases which interest me personally and which seem to cause more debate than others.  There are so many to choose from; Madeline McCann as you say; I also had Michael Peterson, Shrien Dewani, Jens Soering and a few others on my original list and had to edit down to 6.   

The question of 'why do people debate anything' is pretty much what I'm trying to answer I suppose, but with these cases as examples.  I suppose I am just interested in whether anyone has an end goal in mind, i.e getting others to come round to your way of thinking?  Thanks again for replying I really appreciate it  8((()*/
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2021, 05:28:17 PM
Some people debate these cases online as part of what they consider to be “serious research” which they feel will help to solve the mysteries that they are discussing.  I guess everyone loves a “whodunnit” and trying to solve puzzles.   I think thought that some forget that there are real people involved in these tragedies and that real people can end up being hurt by the meddling and judgey bitching that surrounds each case.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on March 30, 2021, 11:30:19 AM
I guess everyone loves a “whodunnit” and trying to solve puzzles.

Thanks, and I agree I do love a 'whodunnit'!  I'm curious though, on this forum as Jeremy has already been convicted and is unlikely to win any appeal, what is there to discuss or solve, unless you think he is innocent? I'm honestly not judging or being negative, I'm genuinely interested!
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2021, 11:53:34 AM
Thanks, and I agree I do love a 'whodunnit'!  I'm curious though, on this forum as Jeremy has already been convicted and is unlikely to win any appeal, what is there to discuss or solve, unless you think he is innocent? I'm honestly not judging or being negative, I'm genuinely interested!
There are certain posters on here who are convinced he is innocent and therefore a victim of a miscarriage of justice.  At least one forum member is actively working on his campaign to be freed.  I guess they are on here trying to change opinion about Bamber (but sadly for them failing miserably as one thing forums has taught me, once you've adopted a position on any given subject you are unlikely to have your opinion changed by arguing the toss with other posters).
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on March 30, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
I guess they are on here trying to change opinion about Bamber

Yes I think that's what I'm trying to understand; I can see why those who think he is innocent have a motivation but what about the majority who agree that he is guilty?  Would you ideally like to convince his supporters otherwise?  Or is it simply a place to discuss his guilt?  Thank you for engaging with me I really appreciate it.  I'll be honest, when I first started researching I was probably viewing forums quite negatively but I've realised that there are soooo many different personal reasons for people to become involved in discussions and it's really fascinating.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: APRIL on March 30, 2021, 12:30:54 PM
Yes I think that's what I'm trying to understand; I can see why those who think he is innocent have a motivation but what about the majority who agree that he is guilty?  Would you ideally like to convince his supporters otherwise?  Or is it simply a place to discuss his guilt?  Thank you for engaging with me I really appreciate it.  I'll be honest, when I first started researching I was probably viewing forums quite negatively but I've realised that there are soooo many different personal reasons for people to become involved in discussions and it's really fascinating.

It's probably a case of each side believing themselves to be right and hoping they can persuade the other side to see sense.
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2021, 12:33:31 PM
Yes I think that's what I'm trying to understand; I can see why those who think he is innocent have a motivation but what about the majority who agree that he is guilty?  Would you ideally like to convince his supporters otherwise?  Or is it simply a place to discuss his guilt?  Thank you for engaging with me I really appreciate it.  I'll be honest, when I first started researching I was probably viewing forums quite negatively but I've realised that there are soooo many different personal reasons for people to become involved in discussions and it's really fascinating.
I can't speak for anyone else but for me forums are simply a diversion from stuff I should be getting on with in real life, a chance to have a "heated debate" with others about all sorts of topics.  I only got involved in the discussion re: Bamber because of the recent TV series and I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince anyone he's guilty - I think that goes without saying but it's quite enjoyable having one's opinions tested and challenged.  My main interest on this forum is the Madeleine McCann case.  I have always thought there is a book to be written about the online shenanigans wrt to that case - I have been involved with forums since a few weeks after she disappeared and you just wouldn't believe the craziness of that particular corner of the internet - or perhaps you would, if you've been researching this for a while...
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Teams_UP on March 30, 2021, 01:36:35 PM
I have always thought there is a book to be written about the online shenanigans wrt to that case - I have been involved with forums since a few weeks after she disappeared and you just wouldn't believe the craziness of that particular corner of the internet - or perhaps you would, if you've been researching this for a while...

Maybe that can be my next project  @)(++(*

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense  8((()*/
Title: Re: Introduction and a request please!
Post by: Caroline on April 06, 2021, 01:07:34 AM
Maybe that can be my next project  @)(++(*

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense  8((()*/

I agree with VS - it's a diversion in the main from other things and I have no interest in changing anyone's mind. I don't like the perpetuation of myths though so try and stamp them out whenever possible.