Author Topic: Bamber and public interest immunity documents  (Read 2524 times)

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thedarkman

  • Guest
Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« on: December 01, 2012, 03:52:24 PM »
As will be seen from this article,

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/338039

I have no problem with Bamber's guilt. I do though think it is important not to overstate the case against him. The fact that he behaved oddly after the crime was discovered is neither here nor there. People often behave in bizarre manners following tragedy or trauma. Many women who have genuinely been raped do things you wouldn't believe, and neither do the police half the time.

There is one thing I do have some problems with, these claims about the police withholding PII documents. Does anyone know what this is about and what might be in them? I've looked far and wide with no luck.

Offline John

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2012, 04:16:44 PM »
As will be seen from this article,

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/338039

I have no problem with Bamber's guilt. I do though think it is important not to overstate the case against him. The fact that he behaved oddly after the crime was discovered is neither here nor there. People often behave in bizarre manners following tragedy or trauma. Many women who have genuinely been raped do things you wouldn't believe, and neither do the police half the time.

There is one thing I do have some problems with, these claims about the police withholding PII documents. Does anyone know what this is about and what might be in them? I've looked far and wide with no luck.

An interesting article Alexander, you seem to have summarised the Bamber case quite nicely.

The PII documents which include written statements and photos relate to post murder investigations and enquiries.  You will know that the police initially messed up quite badly in this case and rather made quite the fool of themselves on site while the bodies lay in situ.  I am not in the least surprised that the authorities want to keep much of this information as secret as possible and not have it plastered all over the www.

There have been two enquiries into what happened following the investigation, trial and conviction of Jeremy Bamber following the murders at White House Farm. Both have resolved that there was no case to answer as far as Essex Police and any cover-up or conspiracy was concerned.

The CCRC will also have have free access to this material and have consistently concluded that they have no relevance to the eventual outcome of the case.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2012, 04:20:11 PM »
You were right to point out that Jeremy Bamber by his own actions  created a situation whereby the assailant could only have been him or his sister Sheila.

Sheila was forensically neutral when discovered and could not have partaken in any of the shootings or the fight with Nevill rendering Jeremy guilty by default.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2012, 04:28:40 PM »
You were right to point out that Jeremy Bamber by his own actions  created a situation whereby the assailant could only have been him or his sister Sheila.

Sheila was forensically neutral when discovered and could not have partaken in any of the shootings or the fight with Nevill rendering Jeremy guilty by default.

That pretend telephone call from Neville was necesaary to set up Sheila.  When Jeremy phoned Colchester Police station to report the matter he had to have a reason to do so and that telephone call provided that reason?   It also placed him at home in Goldhanger as part of an alibi.
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline goatboy

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2012, 06:09:14 PM »
As will be seen from this article,

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/338039

I have no problem with Bamber's guilt. I do though think it is important not to overstate the case against him. The fact that he behaved oddly after the crime was discovered is neither here nor there. People often behave in bizarre manners following tragedy or trauma. Many women who have genuinely been raped do things you wouldn't believe, and neither do the police half the time.

There is one thing I do have some problems with, these claims about the police withholding PII documents. Does anyone know what this is about and what might be in them? I've looked far and wide with no luck.

An interesting article Alexander, you seem to have summarised the Bamber case quite nicely.

The PII documents which include written statements and photos relate to post murder investigations and enquiries.  You will know that the police initially messed up quite badly in this case and rather made quite the fool of themselves on site while the bodies lay in situ.  I am not in the least surprised that the authorities want to keep much of this information as secret as possible and not have it plastered all over the www.

There have been two enquiries into what happened following the investigation, trial and conviction of Jeremy Bamber following the murders at White House Farm. Both have resolved that there was no case to answer as far as Essex Police and any cover-up or conspiracy was concerned.

The CCRC will also have have free access to this material and have consistently concluded that they have no relevance to the eventual outcome of the case.

Thanks for sharing that point John- we are led to believe by Bamber's supporters that the PII documents contain evidence that will prove his innocence and that is the reason why they are withheld. It's interesting to know that the CCRC could have seen these documents, yet still stand by the guilty verdict.

I agree about Bamber's behaviour, in isolation of course it is no indicator of guilt or lack of it. But combined with the rest of the circumstantial evidence I feel it could not be ignored. Alarm bells would have been less likely to ring with DS Jones and the extended family if he had behaved less suspiciously.

Offline abs

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2012, 07:53:14 PM »
We can speculate why so many documents are withheld, but since no one except the police department has laid eyes on them, it is open to any kind of speculation what is in them. Not a healthy situation in my opinion.
I also have a problem with the fact that all physical evidence was destroyed in 1996 - exactly when DNA testing was gaining ground.
You get the impression that the Essex Police Department is indeed hiding something.

Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2012, 09:45:10 PM »
As will be seen from this article,

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/338039

I have no problem with Bamber's guilt. I do though think it is important not to overstate the case against him. The fact that he behaved oddly after the crime was discovered is neither here nor there. People often behave in bizarre manners following tragedy or trauma. Many women who have genuinely been raped do things you wouldn't believe, and neither do the police half the time.

There is one thing I do have some problems with, these claims about the police withholding PII documents. Does anyone know what this is about and what might be in them? I've looked far and wide with no luck.

I see your point Darkman; there is nowt as queer as folk but some of Bamber's behaviour after the murders was beyond the pale and showed a distinct callousness and highlighted his narcissistic personality (disorder?).

His partying and money grabbing may not reflect directly on his guilt or innocence but Bamber trying to sell the nude photos of his dead sister to the tabloids are the actions of a guilty man .... in my opinion!

Offline John

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2012, 09:52:10 PM »
We can speculate why so many documents are withheld, but since no one except the police department has laid eyes on them, it is open to any kind of speculation what is in them. Not a healthy situation in my opinion.
I also have a problem with the fact that all physical evidence was destroyed in 1996 - exactly when DNA testing was gaining ground.
You get the impression that the Essex Police Department is indeed hiding something.

No-one abs?  Not even Ewen Smith at the CCRC?

There is more than enough physical evidence to eliminate Sheila several times over in my opinion regardless of what was burned after the fact or later disposed of.  Remember that Jeremy himself was quite insistent that the carpets be burned so that he could get back into the house as soon as possible.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 11:02:31 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline abs

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 12:47:35 PM »
We can speculate why so many documents are withheld, but since no one except the police department has laid eyes on them, it is open to any kind of speculation what is in them. Not a healthy situation in my opinion.
I also have a problem with the fact that all physical evidence was destroyed in 1996 - exactly when DNA testing was gaining ground.
You get the impression that the Essex Police Department is indeed hiding something.

No-one abs?  Not even Ewen Smith at the CCRC?

There is more than enough physical evidence to eliminate Sheila several times over in my opinion regardless of what was burned after the fact or later disposed of.  Remember that Jeremy himself was quite insistent that the carpets be burned so that he could get back into the house as soon as possible.

First of all, we cannot blame Jeremy for the burning of carpets and other things. The police should have known better than that! Seriously. Or was it in their interest to burn evidence of a disaster of an initial response with masses of officers wading through the house for training purposes!
The destruction of evidence in 1996 (not quite legally, mind) and the fact that photos and documents are withheld fuel the conspiracy theories. I wonder how the family feels about that.

Padgates staff

  • Guest
Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2012, 01:32:43 PM »
Documents and objects placed in PII, what happens to it? Does it get destroyed? Is it stored? I know a lot of things is stored in warehouses all over the place (or so they told me at the MJ day but they don't like people knowing the locations).

Offline Angelo222

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 01:52:49 PM »
We can speculate why so many documents are withheld, but since no one except the police department has laid eyes on them, it is open to any kind of speculation what is in them. Not a healthy situation in my opinion.
I also have a problem with the fact that all physical evidence was destroyed in 1996 - exactly when DNA testing was gaining ground.
You get the impression that the Essex Police Department is indeed hiding something.

No-one abs?  Not even Ewen Smith at the CCRC?

There is more than enough physical evidence to eliminate Sheila several times over in my opinion regardless of what was burned after the fact or later disposed of.  Remember that Jeremy himself was quite insistent that the carpets be burned so that he could get back into the house as soon as possible.

First of all, we cannot blame Jeremy for the burning of carpets and other things. The police should have known better than that! Seriously. Or was it in their interest to burn evidence of a disaster of an initial response with masses of officers wading through the house for training purposes!
The destruction of evidence in 1996 (not quite legally, mind) and the fact that photos and documents are withheld fuel the conspiracy theories. I wonder how the family feels about that.

Oh but we can blame him. He complained to the police about the state of the house and encouraged then to have blood stained carpets removed.  This was at a time when most accepted that Sheila had done it but we all know now that she didn't do it.  It matters little about what was removed in any event as the evidence is all there which clears Sheila.  There is nothing which can change that.

Don't you think it's time you lifted your head out of the sand abs and faced the facts in the case?  We know that it came down to Jeremy or Sheila being involved and the forensics are very clear that it wasn't Sheila.  A 5-year-old could work that enigma out.

Conspiracy theories count for nothing in the case, they are all well past their sell-by date.  Bamber has cooked his goose this time, case done and dusted, time to move on.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline abs

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »
We can speculate why so many documents are withheld, but since no one except the police department has laid eyes on them, it is open to any kind of speculation what is in them. Not a healthy situation in my opinion.
I also have a problem with the fact that all physical evidence was destroyed in 1996 - exactly when DNA testing was gaining ground.
You get the impression that the Essex Police Department is indeed hiding something.

No-one abs?  Not even Ewen Smith at the CCRC?

There is more than enough physical evidence to eliminate Sheila several times over in my opinion regardless of what was burned after the fact or later disposed of.  Remember that Jeremy himself was quite insistent that the carpets be burned so that he could get back into the house as soon as possible.

First of all, we cannot blame Jeremy for the burning of carpets and other things. The police should have known better than that! Seriously. Or was it in their interest to burn evidence of a disaster of an initial response with masses of officers wading through the house for training purposes!
The destruction of evidence in 1996 (not quite legally, mind) and the fact that photos and documents are withheld fuel the conspiracy theories. I wonder how the family feels about that.

Oh but we can blame him. He complained to the police about the state of the house and encouraged then to have blood stained carpets removed.  This was at a time when most accepted that Sheila had done it but we all know now that she didn't do it.  It matters little about what was removed in any event as the evidence is all there which clears Sheila.  There is nothing which can change that.

Don't you think it's time you lifted your head out of the sand abs and faced the facts in the case?  We know that it came down to Jeremy or Sheila being involved and the forensics are very clear that it wasn't Sheila.  A 5-year-old could work that enigma out.

Conspiracy theories count for nothing in the case, they are all well past their sell-by date.  Bamber has cooked his goose this time, case done and dusted, time to move on.

A tad rude?

Offline Truth SKR1

Re: Bamber and public interest immunity documents
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2021, 11:37:57 AM »
What I found strange regarding this is that there has been no record of PII hearings or reviews regarding the release of information supposedly held by "the state". Nothing has ever been raised in the House of Commons. PII in my understanding is a state tool, but there seems to be confusion in this case regarding state use of PII and the police using "PII type powers". I've now concluded in this case it's the latter and not the PII used in Matrix Churchill and other matters pertaining to issues of national security. Notice Bamber never appeals to the home office or any state organ for disclosure. Requests are always made directly to Essex Police or to the CCRC to force disclosure by the police. The state doesn't appear to be involved in the process at all. He's effectively muddied the waters on this and made himself a martyr. With no credible source willing or able to contradict his claims he's been able to control the narrative around the number and content of documents supposedly witheld, and paint himself as a victim of the police and the state.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 11:46:29 AM by Truth SKR1 »