How Many More Have to Die?

[Miss Taken Identity]

For the benefit  of readers here, this is the usual rant from a unionist who is really really  worried about the rise of the vote for independence.
None of the above rant bears any semblance to the truth.

Nice to see you addressing your millions of followers there Erngarth, Must be great to be you, having all that power and using it wisely.   

[Miss Taken Identity]

UK Covid deaths: Why the 100,000 toll is so bad https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757790 if you want to know why our death rate is so high.  As I said, a complex issue.  Just blaming the government won’t do and is a quite dangerous position to adopt IMO as it overlooks other important contributing factors.

I AM NOT A CONSPIRITORY THEORIST- However, A few things should be discussed and indeed investigated.

It has been suggested (I don't have evidence, yet, sorry) that the NHS Scotland was marking as' Covid Death' for anyone who died with flu like conditions. Many were never actually tested and some tested and covid blamed although it was not as a direct result of the covid virus. I believe that bumped up figures in stats.

The virus is real and CAN KILL some people, however the majority have survived which means It is containable, and the full lockdowns may not have been neccessary.

"The truth is that MI posts utter rubbish.....That is only YOUR truth.

.ranting about spewing hatred for the English and the spouting lies and all the "whataboutery" about soldiers.   hahahaha really? trying to get brownie points from your many millions of followers?
Nicola's broadcasts each day have been informative, honest, reassuring and non political.

Nicola and honest in the same sentence ... really?  lol

 We didn't need any help from Prime Minister Johnstone with vaccine roll out. We are well ahead of all the targets for the various cohort groups"

OOps wee SNPEEE lies snuck in there for effect eh?

Such hatred from you is evidence of you and your ilk of being intolerant of others. how quaint.

xxx for your millions of followers!

[Venturi Swirl]

I AM NOT A CONSPIRITORY THEORIST- However, A few things should be discussed and indeed investigated.

It has been suggested (I don't have evidence, yet, sorry) that the NHS Scotland was marking as' Covid Death' for anyone who died with flu like conditions. Many were never actually tested and some tested and covid blamed although it was not as a direct result of the covid virus. I believe that bumped up figures in stats.

The virus is real and CAN KILL some people, however the majority have survived which means It is containable, and the full lockdowns may not have been neccessary.

"The truth is that MI posts utter rubbish.....That is only YOUR truth.

.ranting about spewing hatred for the English and the spouting lies and all the "whataboutery" about soldiers.   hahahaha really? trying to get brownie points from your many millions of followers?
Nicola's broadcasts each day have been informative, honest, reassuring and non political.

Nicola and honest in the same sentence ... really?  lol

 We didn't need any help from Prime Minister Johnstone with vaccine roll out. We are well ahead of all the targets for the various cohort groups"

OOps wee SNPEEE lies snuck in there for effect eh?

Such hatred from you is evidence of you and your ilk of being intolerant of others. how quaint.

xxx for your millions of followers!

Erm...are you sure it was my post you meant to respond to?  I know all us supporters look alike to you but really...

[Miss Taken Identity]

Erm...are you sure it was my post you meant to respond to?  I know all us supporters look alike to you but really...

um... well,  did you type this?

"Figures show there were 50.5 deaths per million in Scotland in the week to 15 November, compared to 40.6 in England"


and  this...
"Does this mean that Nicola Sturgeon's government have handled the pandemic worse than Boris and his government?"


If so, I was replying with suggestion that the figures are not accurate... and Getting in there any accusation of being a conspiracy theorist.. ya don't mind do ya? 

[Venturi Swirl]

um... well,  did you type this?

"Figures show there were 50.5 deaths per million in Scotland in the week to 15 November, compared to 40.6 in England"


and  this...
"Does this mean that Nicola Sturgeon's government have handled the pandemic worse than Boris and his government?"


If so, I was replying with suggestion that the figures are not accurate... and Getting in there any accusation of being a conspiracy theorist.. ya don't mind do ya? 

What was the second half of your post all about though?  Not sure but it seemed like a rant directed at me, rather unfairly I thought.

[Miss Taken Identity]

What was the second half of your post all about though?  Not sure but it seemed like a rant directed at me, rather unfairly I thought.

My apologies VS. That wasn't my intention at all.

 The last part was directed at Ergh. I was on the phone mid sentence and forgot to add a post script. :(  Ooops

[Carana]

It’s not complex. The government failed to heed the advice of its experts and locked down too late three times while also letting households mix at Christmas even though they knew that a new variant of the virus which was more virulent was infecting people. Eat out to help out also helped push numbers up. It really is rather simple why we have the highest death rate in the world, we had a woefully incompetent government.

As you appear to disagree with my conclusions why do you think that we have so many dead ?

For the record I think Labour’s record in opposition during the pandemic has also been woeful.

And as we are now engaging would it be too much to ask if we could try to debate without the insults?

- IMO, back in early March 2020 BoJo's attitude to Covid was hair-raising (e.g., saying on TV that he'd carry on shaking hands with everyone, and intimated that he'd already done so with Covid patients in a hospital (which wasn't true). A few weeks later, he could well have died from it. I totally agree that he should have listened (as opposed to just 'heard') what his experts were saying and been decisive. Perhaps even turned up to some of the COBRA meetings.

- Allowing some Xmas festivity (or other religious / festive events) was a hard decision for many governments, no doubt trying to juggle between political optics, economic fallout, behavioural psychology, and all the rest.

- I'm not sure where the idea that the UK had the highest death rate in the world comes from. At around this time last year - from memory - I'd found that it was indeed heading that way, but was below Belgium and Italy (and that's just in Europe).

[Miss Taken Identity]

So what is the truth?

Will this independent Scotland have it's own currency, nuclear deterrent & armed forces or will there need to be some sort of union with England, Wales & N.I?

A hard border is order of the day.. long way to Europe- not having permission to go via England-  air land or sea.. Hell of a journey. What will our pass ports lok like I wonder. Sturgeons face on the front cover?


Oh I am being called names and not a warning insight. a slanderous name at that as I am not a 'Unionist' I am a subject of the United a Kingdom. AND proud of that.

[faithlilly]

I posted this in January this year.

“As we today reach more than 100,000 deaths in this country due to coronavirus, the largest death toll in the world, sadly  my prediction that Johnson and his hideously incompetent government’s handing of this pandemic would lead to hundreds of thousands unnecessary deaths has proved correct. Every other country on this planet with the ability to collate the data has faired better than us....even China.

I once said that the British had a tendency to masochism and the fact the the Conservatives are still neck and neck with Labour in the polls seems to bear this out. How many of our citizens will have to die due to this government’s incompetence before we say enough is enough?”

Of course I was called a Tory basher and a naysayer. If only more had spoken up.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-serious-errors-by-ministers-and-scientific-advisers-cost-thousands-of-lives-during-pandemic-says-report-by-mps-12431778

[Venturi Swirl]

I posted this in January this year.

“As we today reach more than 100,000 deaths in this country due to coronavirus, the largest death toll in the world, sadly  my prediction that Johnson and his hideously incompetent government’s handing of this pandemic would lead to hundreds of thousands unnecessary deaths has proved correct. Every other country on this planet with the ability to collate the data has faired better than us....even China.

I once said that the British had a tendency to masochism and the fact the the Conservatives are still neck and neck with Labour in the polls seems to bear this out. How many of our citizens will have to die due to this government’s incompetence before we say enough is enough?”

Of course I was called a Tory basher and a naysayer. If only more had spoken up.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-serious-errors-by-ministers-and-scientific-advisers-cost-thousands-of-lives-during-pandemic-says-report-by-mps-12431778

Are you kidding?!  “If only more had spoken up”?!  There was been wall-to-wall criticism of the government pretty much since day one and what has it achieved?  Nothing.  What must be incredibly galling for leftists like you is that the ordinary British people (who the likes of you clearly despise) are much more forgiving and understanding of this government’s actions (in-actions and mistakes as clearly many of them were) than you could ever possibly be, it must really hurt but that’s life.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/02/05/who-do-britons-hold-responsible-covid-19-deaths-uk

[faithlilly]

Covid cases yesterday:

France: 1,120
Spain: 1,277
Italy: 1,561
Germany: 4,872

UK: 40,224

[Venturi Swirl]

Covid cases yesterday:

France: 1,120
Spain: 1,277
Italy: 1,561
Germany: 4,872

UK: 40,224

So what do you suggest?  Another lockdown?

[Carana]

- The initial UK vaccine rollout was impressive, but had nothing to do with EU restrictions as any EU country was free to make side deals (and the UK was still a member at the time).

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

- The current UK numbers do indeed seem very high compared to other western European countries. However, the number of cases can be misleading as it depends on the number of tests... which in turn can depend on whether tests are compulsory in order to work/ study / attend events / travel, or simply voluntary in the event of feeling unwell.

- As a centrist, I don't want to participate in Con/Lab spats. Any government has to work with the state of affairs that it has inherited and the competence of those in place to deal with situations / crises. Appointing people to key positions primarily on the basis of party loyalty (of whichever flavour) as opposed to competence does not, IMO, lead to a more efficient country.

- I've been to 3 EU countries recently. In two, masks were the only obligation in enclosed settings. In France,

[faithlilly]

- The initial UK vaccine rollout was impressive, but had nothing to do with EU restrictions as any EU country was free to make side deals (and the UK was still a member at the time).

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

- The current UK numbers do indeed seem very high compared to other western European countries. However, the number of cases can be misleading as it depends on the number of tests... which in turn can depend on whether tests are compulsory in order to work/ study / attend events / travel, or simply voluntary in the event of feeling unwell.

- As a centrist, I don't want to participate in Con/Lab spats. Any government has to work with the state of affairs that it has inherited and the competence of those in place to deal with situations / crises. Appointing people to key positions primarily on the basis of party loyalty (of whichever flavour) as opposed to competence does not, IMO, lead to a more efficient country.

- I've been to 3 EU countries recently. In two, masks were the only obligation in enclosed settings. In France,

I think that the Covid crisis has gone beyond partisan politics and while I appreciate your points on the collation of cases I don’t believe that that would skew the figures enough to explain the disparity in numbers.

[Venturi Swirl]

In March last year a poster wrote this


“These are already massively out of date, things have moved on at a pace since the weekend.  You can cut and paste  as many links as you like, at the end of the day the facts will speak for themselves.  If the Government’s handling of this crisis is causing unavoidable  deaths then the stats will reflect this.  So far our death rate per head of population is well down compared to other EU countries, maybe that will change, maybe it won’t.  Perhaps you’d like to give examples of governments doing a much better job at containing the virus?  China perhaps?  Are they socialists in your view?”

As we today reach more than 100,000 deaths in this country due to coronavirus, the largest death toll in the world, sadly  my prediction that Johnson and his hideously incompetent government’s handing of this pandemic would lead to hundreds of thousands unnecessary deaths has proved correct. Every other country on this planet with the ability to collate the data has faired better than us....even China.

I once said that the British had a tendency to masochism and the fact the the Conservatives are still neck and neck with Labour in the polls seems to bear this out. How many of our citizens will have to die due to this government’s incompetence before we say enough is enough?

Bad news Faithlilly -

"Britain stood out for the apparent accuracy of its official figures. The government had estimated about 150,000 excess deaths and the WHO estimate was virtually the same. By contrast, the Indian government claims it has suffered fewer than 500,000 extra deaths. The WHO said yesterday that the real figure was nearly five million.

The WHO estimates that the UK had 109 excess deaths per 100,000 people per year over a two-year period. That compared with 133 for Italy, 116 in Germany and 111 in Spain".

In the league table of excess deaths Britain was 57th, so not the worst affected country by a long shot.  Furthermore Sweden which did not pursue nearly the rigorous lockdown policy that we did in the UK had an excess death rate of around half ours, yet was criticised for its "irresponsible" policy at the time. 

As I kept saying during the pandemic, rushing to judgement and blaming the government for  its handling of the crisis was premature and unhelpful political point scoring, I also said that we wouldn't get a clear picture of exactly  how we'd fared by comparison with other countries until the dust had settled.  Looks like I was right again.