Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or Self Defence?

[Wonderfulspam]

Kyle Rittenhouse.  Murder or Self Defence?

On August 25, 2020, amid the Kenosha unrest, Kyle Rittenhouse, a then 17-year-old male from Antioch, Illinois, shot and killed two people and wounded another during multiple confrontations at two locations.

He was armed with an AR-15 style rifle and one of those shot had a handgun.

At the first location, Rittenhouse was pursued by a group, a gunshot was fired into the air by a third party, a person lunged at Rittenhouse and attempted to take his rifle, and Rittenhouse fired at him four times. At the second location, Rittenhouse tripped while fleeing, three people rushed toward Rittenhouse and physically confronted him, and Rittenhouse fired another four times.

Kenosha resident Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Silver Lake resident Anthony Huber, 26, were killed, while West Allis resident Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, lost his bicep.

Two other people present at the protest also chased and confronted Rittenhouse, and he either did not shoot at them, or missed.

Rittenhouse was arrested and charged with multiple counts of homicide and unlawful possession of a firearm, while Dominick Black was arrested and charged with unlawfully supplying Rittenhouse's rifle.

Rittenhouse's attorneys say he acted in self-defense upon hearing firearm discharge and in response to the numerous physical confrontations by protesters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting


A trial date is now set for November 2021


Watch the video evidence & you decide.  Murder or Self Defence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkTnQfjRvk0

[Wonderfulspam]

My opinion,

1) The first shooting was justifiable self defence, the rioter was pursuing him & posed an imminent threat.

2) The second decedent had hit Rittenhouse with a skateboard & was attempting to take his firearm, posing an imminent threat.

3) The armed man appeared to surrender, lowered his fire arm, Rittenhouse lowered his, then the man went for  Rittenhouse again, only Rittenhouse was faster to draw.

IMO, all 3 instances were legally justified self defence.

This will be another interesting trial & is bound to split opinion in the states IMO

[Miss Taken Identity]

My opinion,

1) The first shooting was justifiable self defence, the rioter was pursuing him & posed an imminent threat.

2) The skateboarder was about to skull smash Rittenhouse & posed an imminent threat.

3) The armed man appeared to surrender, lowered his fire arm, Rittenhouse lowered his, then the man went for  Rittenhouse again, only Rittenhouse was faster to draw.

IMO, all 3 instances were legally justified self defence.

This will be another interesting trial & is bound to split opinion in the states IMO

I agree all 3 self defence.

[Venturi Swirl]

Can we have some context for this incident please, like the circumstances leading up to the incidents.  Why was he pursued, why was he armed in the first place, etc.

[Wonderfulspam]

Can we have some context for this incident please, like the circumstances leading up to the incidents.  Why was he pursued, why was he armed in the first place, etc.

It isn't entirely clear, but what is clear is that an angry mental patient who wanted to burn down a petrol station chased after a dude who was armed with an AR-15. Probably not the most sensible thing to do but then we have to make allowances because he was mental.

https://youtu.be/tkTnQfjRvk0?t=158

And I imagine he carried a gun like a lot of other people at the riot, to defend himself.

[Wonderfulspam]

Rittenhouse was at one point among a number of armed civilians at the gas station trying to protect it.

The mental guy (Rosenbaum)was infuriated by this challenging them to "shoot me nigga"

https://youtu.be/tkTnQfjRvk0?t=158


First major confrontation

The beginning of the first confrontation between Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum was witnessed by Daily Caller reporter Richie McGinniss. According to McGinniss, it seemed that Rosenbaum and other protesters were moving toward Rittenhouse, who was trying to evade them; Rosenbaum then tried to "engage" Rittenhouse, but Rittenhouse managed to avoid this by sidestepping and running away.

The remainder of Rosenbaum's confrontation, and the following incidents with Huber and Grosskreutz, were recorded in cellphone footage from multiple angles, including the moments of the shooting.Video footage showed Rittenhouse being pursued across a parking lot by Rosenbaum, who threw something in Rittenhouse's direction identified as a plastic bag. As Rittenhouse was running from Rosenbaum, two shots could be heard, one from an unknown third party, fired for an unknown reason, and one from Joshua Ziminski, who fired a self-described "warning shot" into the air,causing Rittenhouse to stop running and turn towards the sound of Ziminski's shot. McGinniss has since stated that the sound of the shot was the moment Rittenhouse "went from running away to aiming his weapon." Then, according to Kenosha County prosecutors, Rosenbaum engaged Rittenhouse and tried to take his rifle from him. Rittenhouse then fired four shots, hitting Rosenbaum in the groin, back, and left hand. The bullets fractured Rosenbaum's pelvis, perforated his right lung and liver, and caused additional minor wounds to his left thigh and forehead. Rittenhouse remained near the fatally wounded Rosenbaum as McGinniss began administering first aid. Rittenhouse then made a phone call and was heard saying "I just killed somebody," and then fled as more protesters arrived.

Second major confrontation

Video from another angle then showed Rittenhouse being chased down the street by several protesters, one of whom allegedly struck him from behind in the head, knocking off his cap, shortly after which Rittenhouse tripped and fell to the ground. According to the criminal complaint, at that point, protesters were heard on two different videos yelling "Beat him up!," "Get him! Get that dude!," and "Get his ass!" One of the men who had been chasing him allegedly jumped and kicked Rittenhouse while he was still on the ground – Rittenhouse fired twice but missed the man.

Next, according to court records and video footage, another protester, Anthony Huber, "made contact" with Rittenhouse's left shoulder with a skateboard as they struggled for control of the gun. As Huber was pulling on the rifle, Rittenhouse fired once, hitting Huber in the chest, perforating his heart and right lung, causing his rapid death.

Third major confrontation and Rittenhouse's departure

Gaige Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse while he was still on the ground but stopped and put his hands up when Huber was shot. According to a complaint filed by the Kenosha County Clerk of Courts, Grosskreutz appeared to have a handgun.[48] Grosskreutz later confirmed he was holding a handgun.[49] When Grosskreutz moved again towards Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz in the arm, severing most of his bicep.

At least 16 gunshots from other sources were heard on video during the time that Rittenhouse was on the ground.

Rittenhouse subsequently got back to his feet and walked towards police with his hands up and the Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 rifle strapped across his chest. The police either allowed him to leave or appeared not to acknowledge him, though several witnesses and other protesters shouted for him to be arrested. When asked at a press conference why Rittenhouse was not stopped, Kenosha Sheriff David Beth said, "In situations that are high-stress, you have such incredible tunnel vision" and implied officers may not have realized he had been involved in the shooting. Likewise, Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis said that "there was nothing to suggest this individual was involved in any criminal behavior" due to the fact that someone walking towards the police with their hands up was "no longer abnormal" in the wake of the protests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting#First_major_confrontation

[Venturi Swirl]

It isn't entirely clear, but what is clear is that an angry mental patient who wanted to burn down a petrol station chased after a dude who was armed with an AR-15. Probably not the most sensible thing to do but then we have to make allowances because he was mental.

https://youtu.be/tkTnQfjRvk0?t=158

And I imagine he carried a gun like a lot of other people at the riot, to defend himself.

you keep linking to videos - do they show people actually being killed?  I don’t want to watch that if so.

[Wonderfulspam]

you keep linking to videos - do they show people actually being killed?  I don’t want to watch that if so.

Yes, the subject matter is about a riot in which a guy shot 3 people, killing two, in apparent self defence.

My apologies, I forget some people are sensitive about seeing death, personally I've seen enough lynching & burning videos from Africa, plus Mexican cartels chopping living people into gradually smaller pieces that I'm quite immune to a simple gunshot death.

[Venturi Swirl]

Yes, the subject matter is about a riot in which a guy shot 3 people, killing two, in apparent self defence.

My apologies, I forget some people are sensitive about seeing death, personally I've seen enough lynching & burning videos from Africa, plus Mexican cartels chopping living people into gradually smaller pieces that I'm quite immune to a simple gunshot death.

Ain’t the internet a wonderful thing.

[Wonderfulspam]

Ain’t the internet a wonderful thing.

It's either that or cat videos.

I must confess I was a little distressed at times by the constant repetition of George Floyd pleading for his life while watching the trial but I sucked it up because like I said, I've seen infinitely worse.

There's something about when broadcasters edit & refuse to show life & death in full detail that I'm slightly against.

I think if more people were exposed to true incidents of horrific murders, as opposed to just seeing a fake version via Hollywood, people might be less inclined to commit such heinous acts.

[Venturi Swirl]

It's either that or cat videos.

I must confess I was a little distressed at times by the constant repetition of George Floyd pleading for his life while watching the trial but I sucked it up because like I said, I've seen infinitely worse.

There's something about when broadcasters edit & refuse to show life & death in full detail that I'm slightly against.

I think if more people were exposed to true incidents of horrific murders, as opposed to just seeing a fake version via Hollywood, people might be less inclined to commit such heinous acts.

I don’t need to watch horrific murders on video to put me off committing them thanks.

[Wonderfulspam]

I don’t need to watch horrific murders on video to put me off committing them thanks.

I'll hold you to that.

[Venturi Swirl]

I'll hold you to that.

A quote from “Planet Of The Apes” immediately sprang to mind...

[Angelo222]

My opinion,

1) The first shooting was justifiable self defence, the rioter was pursuing him & posed an imminent threat.

2) The skateboarder was about to skull smash Rittenhouse & posed an imminent threat.

3) The armed man appeared to surrender, lowered his fire arm, Rittenhouse lowered his, then the man went for  Rittenhouse again, only Rittenhouse was faster to draw.

IMO, all 3 instances were legally justified self defence.

This will be another interesting trial & is bound to split opinion in the states IMO

Under the state law he had the right to defend himself against those property damaging louts.  I have no sympathy whatsoever for rioters and hooligans, they deserve all they get and more!

[Wonderfulspam]

The most one sided Guardian article ever.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/08/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony

They laid out the prosecution without mentioning how this witness was obliterated by the defense.

Mr Grosskreutz admitted Rittenhouse did not shoot him until he (Grosskreutz) had pointed his fire arm at him.

He lied in his statements to the police, completely omitting that he even had a firearm when he approached Rittenhouse when he was shot & then remained silent when asked to give another statement to investigators.

He also filed a state & federal lawsuits for $10 million, which make no mention of his possession of a firearm either.

The prosecution case has fallen apart, they never had one in the first place & the media reporting on the facts is utterly shameful.

View below to see a state prosecution witness destroy his own case against Rittenhouse.

Geige Grozkreutz cross examination.

https://youtu.be/I72jgoC-emw?t=8825