Author Topic: Barry George revisited.  (Read 167603 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 04:13:05 PM »
Are you claiming the police initially went after George because they didn't like him?

"Jonathan Laidlaw QC, prosecuting, said Dando's death had been the result of the actions of "a loner, a man acting alone with no rational motive to kill".

He said George, 48, had a history of complex medical problems and had told police he had a "personality disorder".

"He had a fixation with the famous and with celebrities," the prosecutor said. "For many years, he lived out the fantasy by calling himself after, and adopting the names of, various entertainers."

George changed his name twice by deed poll, once to Paul Gadd, the real name of the singer Gary Glitter, and then to Steve Majors, an amalgamation of Steve Austin, the protagonist of the TV programme The Six Million Dollar Man, and Lee Majors, the actor who played the role.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/jun/09/ukcrime

What was the personality disorder, does anyone know and is it because of "a personality disorder" that George was a convicted sex offender?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline John

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2018, 04:16:30 PM »
Barry George was wrongly convicted which is not the same as a miscarriage of justice, as I understand it

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/may/11/barry-george-compensated-supreme-court

The whole thing was a disgrace frankly that someone like George could ever be seen as being capable of such a crime without leaving a forensic footprint behind.  SY has lost much credibility over this case and still haven't provided George with an appropriate apology.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 04:19:24 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Should Barry George face a retrial?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2018, 04:26:53 PM »
The whole thing was a disgrace frankly that someone like George could ever be seen as being capable of such a crime without leaving a forensic footprint behind.

If you can keep an open mind for the time being and put aside what you have read about Barry George and concentrate on the facts of the evidence I'd be grateful. We can revisit SY at some point.

Bob Woffinden -2002
"In July 2001, Barry George was convicted of the murder of Jill Dando, after a year-long police investigation and an eight-week trial. Many of the lawyers and reporters who attended the trial had anticipated an acquittal, but the jurors convicted on a 10:1 majority.
The evidence against George - resting primarily on an invisible particle of explosives residue found on the lining of his coat - was remarkably thin. He lived in a cluttered and uncleaned flat. He was inept, disorganised and had suffered learning difficulties all his life. He had a number of personality disorders (the prosecution claimed to have identified at least six). He was not only unemployed, but unemployable, and had not had a job for more than 20 years.

The murder, on Monday, April 26 1999, bore the hallmarks of a ruthless and well thought-out operation. And, only three days earlier, British and US planes had bombed the Radio-Television Serbia building in Belgrade, killing 16 employees in an attack described by Tony Blair as "entirely justified". Earlier that month, Dando had made a high-profile BBC appeal on behalf of Kosovan Albanian refugees. Before long, there was speculation that the two events were linked, and that Dando had been killed in retaliation for the Nato bombing of Serbian journalists.

Following George's conviction, the case continued to be beset by controversy. One of the officers involved in the inquiry resigned after failing to disclose a media contact (he was later reinstated on appeal); a second officer was accused of harassment by a witness, although she later withdrew her allegations. The conviction hangs on that speck of explosives residue that might, as Mansfield argued in court, have come from almost anywhere. It might have been fireworks, or the coat could have become contaminated while in police custody (it was photographed before forensic analysis, so the possibilities for contamination were considerable). As such, the conviction joins a lengthening list of cases in which forensic evidence has been allowed to overwhelm other pieces of evidence.

At least the man who may be ultimately responsible for Dando's death is no longer in a position to wreak further slaughter - Slobodan Milosevic is now at the Hague, standing trial for war crimes.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jul/06/jilldando.weekend7
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 09:31:26 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Eleanor

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2018, 04:36:16 PM »
Are you claiming the police initially went after George because they didn't like him?

"Jonathan Laidlaw QC, prosecuting, said Dando's death had been the result of the actions of "a loner, a man acting alone with no rational motive to kill".

He said George, 48, had a history of complex medical problems and had told police he had a "personality disorder".

"He had a fixation with the famous and with celebrities," the prosecutor said. "For many years, he lived out the fantasy by calling himself after, and adopting the names of, various entertainers."

George changed his name twice by deed poll, once to Paul Gadd, the real name of the singer Gary Glitter, and then to Steve Majors, an amalgamation of Steve Austin, the protagonist of the TV programme The Six Million Dollar Man, and Lee Majors, the actor who played the role.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/jun/09/ukcrime

No.  I am saying that The Prosecution Case was Flawed.

The Prosecuting QC said....  What he said doesn't make Barry George a Murderer.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2018, 04:47:48 PM »
No.  I am saying that The Prosecution Case was Flawed.

The Prosecuting QC said....  What he said doesn't make Barry George a Murderer.

Point me to a case where a prosecution isn't flawed or rather point me to a case where a prosecution is 100 per cent spot on.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2018, 05:31:18 PM »
No.  I am saying that The Prosecution Case was Flawed.

The Prosecuting QC said....  What he said doesn't make Barry George a Murderer.

Can you point me to the trial transcripts and the Judgement handed down in the original trial please

I've found this http://www.scienceandjusticejournal.com/article/S1355-0306(13)00059-2/fulltext but I want to go back to the beginning before the media muddied the waters..
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:37:14 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Eleanor

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2018, 05:41:05 PM »
Can you point me to the trial transcripts and the Judgement handed down in the original trial please

I've found this http://www.scienceandjusticejournal.com/article/S1355-0306(13)00059-2/fulltext but I want to go back to the beginning before the media muddied the waters..

No, I can't.  I am basing my opinion on the fact that The Appeal Court overturned his conviction.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2018, 05:45:04 PM »
No, I can't.  I am basing my opinion on the fact that The Appeal Court overturned his conviction.

So your opinion is based on part of the picture as opposed to the full picture, or have I misunderstood?

There's an interesting article here re the autism spectrum

"Little is known about the prevalence of violence and autistic spectrum disorders. This article reviews findings of current research on Asperger's disorder and violence. Criteria for diagnosing Asperger's disorder are given. Three cases are presented in which defendants with diagnosed Asperger's disorder were charged with murder. Specific symptoms in this disorder are discussed as they relate to issues of diminished capacity and criminal responsi

https://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Understanding-What-Defendant-Asperger’s-Syndrome-Understood
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:47:18 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2018, 05:52:25 PM »
The whole thing was a disgrace frankly that someone like George could ever be seen as being capable of such a crime without leaving a forensic footprint behind.  SY has lost much credibility over this case and still haven't provided George with an appropriate apology.

Can you point me to where I can see for myself a list of what the police originally gathered from the crime scene? The exhibits seized and all items tested etc..

Whilst the courts are stating George isn't innocent enough I doubt he'll get an apology. I imagine Jill Dando's murder investigation will need re-opening
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:54:56 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2018, 06:07:37 PM »
So your opinion is based on part of the picture as opposed to the full picture, or have I misunderstood?

There's an interesting article here re the autism spectrum

"Little is known about the prevalence of violence and autistic spectrum disorders. This article reviews findings of current research on Asperger's disorder and violence. Criteria for diagnosing Asperger's disorder are given. Three cases are presented in which defendants with diagnosed Asperger's disorder were charged with murder. Specific symptoms in this disorder are discussed as they relate to issues of diminished capacity and criminal responsi

https://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Understanding-What-Defendant-Asperger’s-Syndrome-Understood

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1362361315583411

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, Barry George has Asperger's syndrome (Nugnug posted this over on blue)
 
Robert Napper has been diagnosed with aspergers and paranoid schizophrenia, he's currently serving time in Broadmoor.

Why was someone like Barry George sent to prison as opposed to a secure hospital in the first place? And did his family ever attempt to have him transferred to a mental health facility during the time he was in prison?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

https://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/18571-barry-george-has-aspergers/
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 06:31:27 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2018, 06:21:02 PM »
You cannot say that someone isn't innocent enough just because you don't like him.

I don't believe George is "innocent enough" because I have doubts. It has nothing to do with my dislike of him or his sister, if that is what you are alluding to and everything to do with what I have learned over the past few years.





« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 06:23:39 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 07:32:46 PM »
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1362361315583411

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, Barry George has Asperger's syndrome (Nugnug posted this over on blue)
 
Robert Napper has been diagnosed with aspergers and paranoid schizophrenia, he's currently serving time in Broadmoor.

Why was someone like Barry George sent to prison as opposed to a secure hospital in the first place? And did his family ever attempt to have him transferred to a mental health facility during the time he was in prison?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

https://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/18571-barry-george-has-aspergers/

There's been very little research carried out in relation to understanding "Aggression and sexual offense in Asperger's syndrome" which is one reasons why I have doubts
https://search.proquest.com/openview/333e42d6d1df4c1ab0b160be5cb0d043/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=47717

.


Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2018, 07:35:49 PM »
No.  I am saying that The Prosecution Case was Flawed.

The Prosecuting QC said....  What he said doesn't make Barry George a Murderer.

What was the prosecution QC referring to? You've lost me

"Jonathan Laidlaw QC, prosecuting, said Dando's death had been the result of the actions of "a loner, a man acting alone with no rational motive to kill"

What makes a murderer Eleanor and are you suggesting someone with aspergers does not murder?

According to research - "[ censored word]ocial acts, including aggression and sexual offense, are not considered to be common in this disorder." Yet George had a spent conviction for a sexual offense?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 07:44:12 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2018, 08:01:48 PM »
I wasn't aware BG had been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome. 

I don't know much about the case to have any views either way but I know Prof Simon Baron-Cohen is a world leading expert on Aspergers.  The following vid is brill IMO and can maybe account for many acts of 'evil':

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=zeros+degree+of+empathy+YouTube&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2018, 09:07:07 PM »
"I think anyone who has been vilified like me is going to feel very stressed at times and I do. I am not going to say I am angry because I am not angry, certainly not at society. I would use the word disgusted. I am disgusted at how I am treated by certain elements of the media. I am disgusted at how they can do that to someone. I would not give them the satisfaction of my anger, but sometimes I get so wound up – how am I supposed to deal with it?"

"Upon his release he lived in a flat in Hackney which cost him £310 a week in rent. He paid for it not, as was suggested, by claiming benefits, but by using the proceeds he was paid to do a tabloid interview on the day of his release (the one which described him as "bug-eyed" and an "oddball").

"At times Mr George is incredibly articulate. But due to his Asperger's he sometimes struggles for words and will gesticulate wildly as if searching for them in the air. His reading of body language is poor and it is a struggle to move him from one topic to the next. Often his mind wanders and he goes off on a tangent. When the topic is the media he is hard to stop. Mr George has fought their allegations in the courts, winning libel actions against two Fleet Street titles. But the stories hurt him.

"They are trivial things when it is just one thing, but it is 101. It is things like they said I wear a Superman T-shirt. I have never owned a Superman T-shirt. They said I was buying books about Jill Dando when I was buying a book about civil law."

Jill Dando. During three hours together the name is scarcely mentioned. But like it or not, Mr George will forever be known as the man once convicted of murdering the Crimewatch presenter. He knows this, but says: "I cannot change history and I am not going to begin to try."

He also knows that some people still think he did kill her.

"I cannot do anything about that," he says. "And I am not going to try because in a court of law my innocence has been proven on all the evidence. It frustrates me, because I feel like I am being asked to prove my innocence over and over. But I cannot control what people think."https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/barry-george-i-am-not-angry-certainly-not-at-society-but-i-would-use-the-word-disgustedrsquo-1987499.html
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 09:16:30 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation