Prosecution evidence?

[Carana]

@ John.

You said:
* Leandro Silva gave evidence that a saw had gone missing from the Cipriano family home just after Joana disappeared.

Where did you read that?

[John]

@ John.

You said:
* Leandro Silva gave evidence that a saw had gone missing from the Cipriano family home just after Joana disappeared.

Where did you read that?

Daily trial reports by CdM.

ANTÓNIO LEANDRO
O padrasto de Joana deslocou-se pela segunda vez ao Tribunal, agora a pedido do Colectivo, para confirmar se existiam em sua casa os instrumentos que João Cipriano disse terem sido usados para esquartejar o corpo. Leandro disse que tinha uma serra idêntica à que foi mostrada e admitiu que teria em casa facas com lâminas semelhantes à da fotografia. A serra, disse, desapareceu desde aquela noite.

ANTONIO LEANDRO
Joana's stepfather moved the Court for a second time, now claim the Collective, to confirm that there were in his house instruments that João Cipriano said to have been used to dismember the body. Leandro said he had a saw similar to that shown and admitted that it would have at home knives with blades similar to photography. Sierra said, gone since that night.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/acusacao-pede-24-anos

[Carana]

Daily trial reports by CdM.

A linkypoo, maybe?

That doesn't correspond to what I'd read, hence my question.

[Carana]

@ John.

* Joana's shoes remained in the family home and in particular the red ones she was wearing on the day she supposedly disappeared.

I'm not sure about that.


Another piece of evidence found at Joana's house by the PJ were the red shoes that Joana was supposed to be wearing the day she disappeared. The PJ believe that the mother and uncle forgot to hide the shoes, just as they did the purchases from the store. The posters put up by the family said that she was wearing red shoes.

Sara Rosado: "No one knows what the child was wearing, especially the shoes."

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-without-trace-of-joana.html

[Redblossom]

@ John.

* Joana's shoes remained in the family home and in particular the red ones she was wearing on the day she supposedly disappeared.

I'm not sure about that.


Another piece of evidence found at Joana's house by the PJ were the red shoes that Joana was supposed to be wearing the day she disappeared. The PJ believe that the mother and uncle forgot to hide the shoes, just as they did the purchases from the store. The posters put up by the family said that she was wearing red shoes.

Sara Rosado: "No one knows what the child was wearing, especially the shoes."

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-without-trace-of-joana.html

The defence put their case, they lost.....and not just once, lost every appeal, start up a blog carana called leonor and joao are innocent why dont you? Failing  that fill in your own thread called the defence....and why the prosecution was wrong, nite now.....oh and have a thnk about the ONLY defence here....are all confessions tortured out false? If thats what happened

[Carana]

Daily trial reports by CdM.

ANTÓNIO LEANDRO
O padrasto de Joana deslocou-se pela segunda vez ao Tribunal, agora a pedido do Colectivo, para confirmar se existiam em sua casa os instrumentos que João Cipriano disse terem sido usados para esquartejar o corpo. Leandro disse que tinha uma serra idêntica à que foi mostrada e admitiu que teria em casa facas com lâminas semelhantes à da fotografia. A serra, disse, desapareceu desde aquela noite.

ANTONIO LEANDRO
Joana's stepfather moved the Court for a second time, now claim the Collective, to confirm that there were in his house instruments that João Cipriano said to have been used to dismember the body. Leandro said he had a saw similar to that shown and admitted that it would have at home knives with blades similar to photography. Sierra said, gone since that night.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/acusacao-pede-24-anos

There's something that I find a bit strange.

He said that he had similar saw to whatever he was shown... Well, most people in rural communities would have saws, wouldn't they?

If he had one similar, would it be safe to think that the prosecution hadn't found the alleged murder weapon?

[John]

@ John.

* Joana's shoes remained in the family home and in particular the red ones she was wearing on the day she supposedly disappeared.

I'm not sure about that.


Another piece of evidence found at Joana's house by the PJ were the red shoes that Joana was supposed to be wearing the day she disappeared. The PJ believe that the mother and uncle forgot to hide the shoes, just as they did the purchases from the store. The posters put up by the family said that she was wearing red shoes.

Sara Rosado: "No one knows what the child was wearing, especially the shoes."

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-without-trace-of-joana.html

Sara Rosado was Leonor's lawyer.  Hardly impartial?

In any event Leandro knew what shoes she usually wore and if any were missing.

[Carana]

The defence put their case, they lost.....and not just once, lost every appeal, start up a blog carana called leonor and joao are innocent why dont you? Failing  that fill in your own thread called the defence....and why the prosecution was wrong, nite now.....

What was the defence in the murder trial? I started a thread on that one, I think it's still empty.

[Carana]

Sara Rosado was Leonor's lawyer.  Hardly impartial?

In any event Leandro knew what shoes she usually wore and if any were missing.

What makes you think that Leandro (who was also an arguido, and who wasn't there when she disappeared) would know what sandals his step-daughter wore to run an errand that evening?

[Redblossom]

What was the defence in the murder trial? I started a thread on that one, I think it's still empty.

See your post 2 on here, some of the defense is there, why ask US???? As if anyone here knows....WE do NOT have access to the trial transcripts CARANA as well YOU know

Ta


Go off and research.......and do let us know what you find.......if anything, night dear



OH BTW you did NOT  ask what the defence was in THIS trial in your thread, you asked what evidence might a defence produce in a murder trial... different and neutral...TOTALLY different question and context, hmmm, best to be forthright next time

!!!




 

[John]

What makes you think that Leandro (who was also an arguido, and who wasn't there when she disappeared) would know what sandals his step-daughter wore to run an errand that evening?

The PJ took him and Joana's aunt along to inspect which clothing or shoes if any were missing.

The Judicial Police (PJ) spent the afternoon and early evening yesterday, a total of about seven hours in a row, in the house where he lived Joana Cipriano, who disappeared 39 days ago in the village of Figueira (Portimão). With inspectors were also the stepfather of the child and an aunt of this, 17 years.

According to the learned DN, one aspect of the PJ led these new and protracted investigations, which included the presence of two elements of the Scientific Police - what happens for the third time in the space of a month - has to do with clothing and shoes commonly used by smaller. PJ wanted to know in particular whether the cabinet Joan missing some clothes, besides he wore at the time of his disappearance.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.dn.pt/inicio/interior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D586629&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djoana%2Bcipriano%2Bsapatos%2Bvermelhos%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D9JV%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official

[Carana]

The PJ took him and Joana's aunt along to inspect which clothing or shoes if any were missing.

The Judicial Police (PJ) spent the afternoon and early evening yesterday, a total of about seven hours in a row, in the house where he lived Joana Cipriano, who disappeared 39 days ago in the village of Figueira (Portimão). With inspectors were also the stepfather of the child and an aunt of this, 17 years.

According to the learned DN, one aspect of the PJ led these new and protracted investigations, which included the presence of two elements of the Scientific Police - what happens for the third time in the space of a month - has to do with clothing and shoes commonly used by smaller. PJ wanted to know in particular whether the cabinet Joan missing some clothes, besides he wore at the time of his disappearance.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.dn.pt/inicio/interior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D586629&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djoana%2Bcipriano%2Bsapatos%2Bvermelhos%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D9JV%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official

Thanks. The link doesn't seem to work. I'd hoped to be able to go to the original.

Anyway, I'm trying to understand this. The PJ went to check her clothes and shoes... 39 days after she'd disappeared. Did I read that correctly?

[Carana]

See your post 2 on here, some of the defense is there, why ask US???? As if anyone here knows....WE do NOT have access to the trial transcripts CARANA as well YOU know

Ta


Go off and research.......and do let us know what you find.......if anything, night dear



OH BTW you did NOT  ask what the defence was in THIS trial in your thread, you asked what evidence might a defence produce in a murder trial... different and neutral...TOTALLY different question and context, hmmm, best to be forthright next time

!!!

You were replying to this post of mine... and sorry, you lost me.

Quote from: Carana on Today at 09:55:52 PM

    What was the defence in the murder trial? I started a thread on that one, I think it's still empty.



Doesn't matter, the thread in question seems to have gone walkies anyway.

[John]

Sorry Carana, here's the original and yes a lot of time was lost both by the GNR and then the PJ.

http://www.dn.pt/inicio/interior.aspx?content_id=586629


I think we need to look at the Joana Cipriano case very carefully so I suggest we come up with a strategy to accomplish this.  I am compiling a list of known facts in the case so that we can at least get rid of the myths.

We don't have original court records but we do have the daily reporting from the court which is the next best thing and if we interpolate between reports we can usually get to the facts.

The trial only lasted 20 hours so there can't be that much beyond our reach even now.

[Mr Gray]

Sorry Carana, here's the original and yes a lot of time was lost both by the GNR and then the PJ.

http://www.dn.pt/inicio/interior.aspx?content_id=586629


I think we need to look at the Joana Cipriano case very carefully so I suggest we come up with a strategy to accomplish this.  I am compiling a list of known facts in the case so that we can at least get rid of the myths.

We don't have original court records but we do have the daily reporting from the court which is the next best thing and if we interpolate between reports we can usually get to the facts.

The trial only lasted 20 hours so there can't be that much beyond our reach even now.

 John you have raised two important points of evidence...

the shopping was in the house that Joanna bought
Childs handprint in blood

Could you tell us where you got this information from