Author Topic: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd  (Read 31049 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2021, 08:56:33 PM »
What did the training experts say?

Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) training coordinator Mr Mercil told the court that officers are taught to use force in proportion to a suspect's level of resistance and it was "very important to be careful with the person".

"We tell officers to stay away from the neck when possible" he said, adding that officers are told to place body weight on a suspect's shoulders when reasonable.

Mr Mercil testified that based on the training that officers receive, Mr Chauvin should only have used that manner of neck restraint if there was "active aggression" involved.

He said that Mr Floyd had no ability to resist or show aggression once he was face down on the ground.

Mr Mercil told the court that Mr Chauvin should have recognised that it was "time to de-escalate the [level of] force" once Mr Floyd fell unconscious, and that Mr Floyd should have been moved into a different position to avoid asphyxiation.

Earlier in the day, Sgt Ker Yang, a crisis intervention training coordinator, confirmed that Mr Chauvin had completed the department's 40-hour practical training course and his "ultimate goal" should have been to assess Mr Floyd's medical condition during his arrest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56653065

I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2021, 09:02:16 PM »
Use of force experts opinion: The force was excessive (& the sky is also blue)


For Angelo,

Apologies, there were more than 2 male bystanders as I previously claimed.



But I still don't agree this was a threatening mob.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 09:09:55 PM by Wonderfulspam »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2021, 09:09:35 PM »
Use of force experts opinion: The force was excessive (& the sky is also blue)

Problem being that they have no way of knowing what pressure if any Chauvin applied. If Chauvin had applied pressure the suspect would have reacted. Floyd was almost incapacitated by the illicit drugs he swallowed, they alone had the ability to kill him according to the medical experts.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 09:11:49 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2021, 09:15:03 PM »
Problem being that they have no way of knowing what pressure of any Chauvin applied.

Agreed, however the act of applying the knee was still knowingly dangerous & unnecessary in itself & as testified by his superior......

"We tell officers to stay away from the neck when possible".

"Mr Floyd had no ability to resist or show aggression once he was face down on the ground."

Sgt Ker Yang: Mr Chauvin had completed the department's 40-hour practical training course and his "ultimate goal" should have been to assess Mr Floyd's medical condition during his arrest.

I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2021, 06:25:38 AM »
Interesting that Morries Hall, the alleged drug dealer and counterfeiter who was in the Cup Foods store with George Floyd and in the front passenger seat of his SUV when police arrived apparently fled Minnesota after the killing but has since been arrested on a string of felony charges. Seems he even pled guilty to attempted strangulation of his pregnant girlfriend in 2019 and as part of a plea agreement was ordered to stay away from her. He was stopped by police in March and the woman was found in the car.

Morries appeared by Zoom from custody yesterday at the Chauvin trial. His attorney told the judge that Morries intends to take the Fifth Amendment against self incrimination if called to testify. She told the court that Morries is potentially facing third degree murder, counterfeiting and other charges in connection with the death of George Floyd.

Doesn't the s..mbag look pretty in a suit and tie as he sits in the county jail?

« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 06:36:46 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2021, 06:40:16 AM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 2

Today was a terrible day for the prosecution. After the judge dismissed Mercil from the witness stand, Prosecutor Schleicher appeared visibly shaken and angry given the mauling his case had just received.  At one point Mercil testified the he himself had personally kept a suspect physically restrained until EMS had arrived on scene, behavior which the state has been arguing for over a week was misconduct on the part of Chauvin.

Even worse, not only did the cross-examination of MacKenzie by the defence also go badly for the prosecution, it went so badly that Nelson informed the court that he intended to re-call MacKenzie as a defence witness when he presented his case in chief.

There were two other witnesses today, neither of which went particularly badly for the state, although in the case of one it was only because the prosecution was saved by the bell when the court recessed early in the day—that doesn’t save the prosecution, that witness will be back tomorrow. I anticipate that the defence is going to have a field day with him on cross-examination, as well.

Morries Hall 5th Amendment Argument

Before the jury was brought into the courtroom today, some discussion about the complication of Morries Hall, the reported drug dealer in the Floyd’s Mercedes SUV, announcing he was going to plead the 5th Amendment if called to testify in the Chauvin trial.

Hall has a real problem.  If he provided Floyd with the drugs that likely were the actual cause of death, under Minnesota law Hall is looking at 3rd degree murder.  Naturally, he doesn’t want to testify in the Chauvin trial only to have that testimony used against him in his own trial.

There’s no doubt that Judge Cahill will respect Hall’s right to assert the 5th.  The only question is whether there might be some areas of questioning in which Hall could participate that do not incriminate him.

This seems unlikely, and of course Hall’s own attorney doesn’t want him to be compelled to say a word about anything, but Judge Cahill has asked the defence and state to write down the questions they’d like to ask Hall, and Cahill will decide if any of them will be allowed.

It’s worth noting that Hall “appeared in court” via a Zoom video link from jail where he is currently awaiting trial on other charges.

(Summary acknowledgment Attorney Andrew Branca)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:16:49 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2021, 07:09:00 AM »
Problem being that they have no way of knowing what pressure if any Chauvin applied. If Chauvin had applied pressure the suspect would have reacted. Floyd was almost incapacitated by the illicit drugs he swallowed, they alone had the ability to kill him according to the medical experts.
The two post mortem reports do not put his death down to a drugs overdose but to his having been knelt on.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2021, 07:24:13 AM »
The two post mortem reports do not put his death down to a drugs overdose but to his having been knelt on.

The medical examiner's report does not mention asphyxiation. According to prosecutors, in charging documents, early results "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

PS. Neither post mortem report made any reference to having been "knelt on"!
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2021, 07:27:44 AM »
The medical examiner's report does not mention asphyxiation. According to prosecutors, in charging documents, early results "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

PS. Neither post mortem report made any reference to having been "knelt on"!
OK, what do they both conclude was the cause of death? A fatal drug overdose?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2021, 07:36:26 AM »
OK, what do they both conclude was the cause of death? A fatal drug overdose?

Time will tell what exactly was the cause of death but CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST is stated on the medical examiner's report.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 07:48:51 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2021, 07:50:08 AM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 2 cont'd...

First state's witness was MPD Sergeant Ker Yang, Crisis Intervention Training Coordinator.

Yang’s testimony, focused on crisis intervention policies of MPD, did little to advance any narrative of guilt for the state, especially after the defence on cross examination of Yang was able to get him to concede that all these policies were contingent on practicability and safety of the scene.

Next up was MPD Lieutenant Johnny Mercil, Use-of-Force Trainer.

Mercil testified at the start that he was currently on medical leave.

In any case, he was active as a trainer during the period preceding the Floyd events during which Chauvin would have received his department use-of-force training and policy instruction, which is what makes Mercil’s testimony relevant.

Mercil is also a genuine fan of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (B[Name removed]), saying (as many practitioners do, in my experience) that he had “fallen in love with the sport.”  This was elicited on direct, led by Prosecutor Schleicher, no doubt to buttress Mercil’s credibility, as was the direct testimony of Mercil about his expertise in hand-to-hand force techniques as both a trainer and a street cop, and his mastery of MPD use-of-force policies.

Schleicher made use of the MPD use of force continuum. If at this level of the continuum, officer can do this, but not that, correct. Mercil answered in the affirmative. But if at that level of the continuum, officer can do that, but not this. Again, yes.

Schleicher would also pose simplified and hypothetical scenarios only minimally representative of what occurred with Floyd and ask if the use of, say, a neck restraint in that hypothetical would be reasonable.  Of course, the answer from Mercil, as intended that narrow and specific question, would be, no, unreasonable.

Missing from all of this direct, of course, was any context around the complex dynamics and circumstances that often surround a police use of force event.  That Schleicher wants to avoid any such discussion is understandable, because doing so provides an appearance for at least reasonableness, if not outright justification, for Chauvin’s use-of-force decisions and conduct with respect to Floyd.

Another common routine from Schleicher when doing direct on state’s witnesses who have any purported use-of-force expertise is to show them the photo of Chauvin apparently (but perhaps not actually) kneeling on Floyd’s neck and asking, “Is this an MPD trained neck restraint?”  Invariably the answer is in the negative.

Once again, Schleicher touched on positional asphyxia, and once again note that this doesn’t really help the state prove Chauvin’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in the context of Floyd’s ingestion of a three-fold fatal dose of fentanyl. 

Defence attorney Nelson began by asking questions related to Mercil’s time as a street cop, with a particular emphasis on the tendency of suspects being subject to arrest to come up with all kinds of nonsense about why they shouldn’t be arrested that day.

Dangerous job, being a police officer? Yes. Are people generally unhappy about being arrested? Very rarely are they happy, Mercil answered.  Do suspects frequently engage in a wide variety of behaviors to avoid arrest, including fighting, arguing, making excuses?  Yes, they do, answered Mercil.

Indeed, when asked if he himself had ever disbelieved a suspect’s claim of a medical emergency as an apparent effort to avoid arrest, Mercil answered that he personally had done so.

All of this, of course, undercuts the part of the prosecution narrative that is relying on Floyd’s purported pleas and excuses about claustrophobia and anxiety and crying out for mama. Perhaps all of that is real—but a reasonable officer must also consider that maybe much of it is simply an effort to avoid arrest.

Nelson also once again put the use of pressure and body weight techniques in a favorable light. The state wants to present Chauvin’s knee in a negative light, as deadly mechanical asphyxiation, or as a “blood choke” as attested to by MMA Williams.  In fact, however, the use of pressure and body weight to restrain a suspect was adopted by the MPD because it was a lesser intensity of force than the prior practice of using strikes—either barehanded, or with batons, or even with weighted gloves—to compel compliance.  Mercil concurred.

The take home message for the jury is that Chauvin’s knee, far from being a public execution in a public street, was a lesser force than would otherwise have been required.

Whereas Schleicher wants to pretend that all of Chauvin’s use of force and other decisions should have been based solely on the needs and desires of Floyd, Nelson once again had the state’s witness concede that under the MPD critical decision-making model the officer must consider a wide breadth of factors beyond just the suspect, including the officer himself, his partners, any bystanders—especially angry or threatening bystanders.

Schleicher had described use of force in a very static and binary way—once a suspect stops resisting, the officer should immediately stop his use of force, period. But Nelson got Mercil to agree that if that suspect had been forcibly resisting the officer only moments before, that would be a factor weighing in favor of continuing to apply force even after apparent resistance had ceased.

Additional factors that a reasonable officer would take into account in deciding how much force to apply and for how long included a disparity in size between the officer and the suspect—and as we know, the 6’ 6” 230-pound Floyd was substantially larger than the 5’ 9” 140-pound Chauvin—as well as the circumstance in which a suspect not only fought police, but fought multiple officers—exactly as Floyd did in this instance.

When asked if additional use-of-force factors included if the suspect was believed to be on drugs, and whether being on drugs could give a suspect exceptionally great strength, Mercil agreed to both statements.

When asked explicitly if any of the video of the event showed Chauvin placing Floyd in a “choke hold” (in this context meaning a respiratory choke but the term has been used with careless disregard for accuracy) Mercil was obliged to answer that it did not.

When asked if a carotid choke, or what MPD would refer to as an “unconscious neck restraint” required both of the carotid arteries to be compressed, Mercil answered that it did. So much for MMA expert Williams’ testimony to the contrary.

Further, when asked how quickly unconsciousness occurred when a carotid choke was placed, Mercil answered “less than 10 seconds.”  Clearly, then Floyd was not being subject to a carotid choke for the large majority of the 9 minutes or so Chauvin had his knee in place, and likely never during that period.

When asked if Mercil trained officers that a suspect who had become unconscious could regain consciousness, get back into the fight, and perhaps even be more aggressive than previously, Mercil responded that he did.

This, of course, is a rationale for Chauvin maintain his knee across Floyd’s back even after Floyd lost consciousness.

As noted above, Nelson also explored with Mercil whether there were circumstances in which it would be appropriate for an officer to maintain a neck restraint for a substantial period of time, and Mercil conceded that there were.

Sometimes to maintain the neck restraint for however long it took EMS to arrive, asked Nelson? Mercil answered that he, personally, had maintained restraint on suspects for the duration required for EMS to arrive.

To ensure the point: The state’s own use-of-force expert testified on cross that he personally had engaged in use-of-force conduct that the state had been using to demonise Chauvin as an unlawful killer.

Nelson also again re-emphasized the reality that the officer involved in a use-of-force event must consider not just the suspect, but also the presence of an angry and growing mob observing what might well look like an ugly use of police force, and Mercil agreed that was the case.

On the issue of providing timely medical care, an issue the state pushes with particular energy, Nelson had Mercil agree that while MPD policy is to provide care as soon as possible, that must take into consideration the safety of the scene, and that the MPD policy actually requires that it first be safe for the officer to provide care before the officer has the duty to provide that care.

Indeed, factors such as whether a suspect had just been fighting with the officers was huge in determining whether an officer could reasonably provide care—especially if that “care” would be chest compressions requiring the suspect to have their handcuffs removed.  Mercil answered in the affirmative.

Later, on re-direct, Schleiter asked Mercil if bystanders merely taking videos would constitute a reason to not provide care. The answer, of course, was no.

But that merely provided Nelson with the lay-up opportunity on re-cross to ask whether a mob shouting insults and outright threats would constitute such a reason—and that was conduct of the mob in this event—and the answer to that, of course, was yes.

Similarly, Nelson hit back on the state’s emphasis on the whole “recovery position” narrative in the context of hypothetical positional asphyxia.  Might there be circumstances that would prevent putting a suspect in a recovery position?  Mercil answered that there were.

It was at this point that Nelson showed Mercil a series of photographs captured from the body worn camera of Officer Lane, and showing Chauvin’s knee on Floyd from the angle down Floyd’s proned body.

Photo 1: Where’s Chauvin’s leg in this image? On Floyd’s neck? Or on his shoulder blades and back. Mercil: Shoulder blades and back.

And in photo 2? Same. Photo 3? Same. Photo 4? Same.

This, of course, fundamentally undercuts the prosecution’s narrative of guilt that it was Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck that killed Floyd.

Are there circumstances like those already discussed where would be appropriate to maintain presence of leg across shoulder blades and back in order to ensure control of the suspect?   Yes, there are, Mercil answered.  For as long as 10 minutes?  It’s possible.

In other words, the use of the restraint can be justified not only to compel compliance of the suspect in the first place, but to ensure that the suspect maintains compliance moving forward—especially given the experience and concern that unconscious suspects can revive and be even more violent than they were prior, even if that restraint is being held in place for as long as 10 minutes. And that’s not just for the safety of the officer, but also for the officer’s partners, for bystanders, and even for the suspect himself.

It was after Nelson was done with cross examination that Schleicher attempted to salvage something for the prosecution by showing a still photo of the bystanders, pointing to some holding phones, and asking if people taking videos was a good enough reason to maintain a restraint.  Mercil answered that video taking by bystanders was not a sufficient reason.

That’s when on re-cross Nelson pulled up the exact same photo that Schleicher had just used, and pointed out that in the picture MMA Williams was clearly being physically restrained from advancing on the officers by the arm of another bystander pulling him back.

Would the threat of imminent physical violence from bystanders be a sufficient reason to maintain restraint on a suspect? If the crowd is shouting that they’re going to slap the “F” out of you, that you’re a “p-word,” that you’re a bum, would that be sufficient to cause the officers to be alarmed about the prospect of imminent physical violence from the bystanders?

Yes, Mercil answered, it would.

(Summary acknowledgment Attorney Andrew Branca)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:23:22 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2021, 08:10:12 AM »
Time will tell what exactly was the cause of death but CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST is stated on the medical examiner's report.
So you don’t accept the conclusions of both post-mortems then?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2021, 08:23:55 AM »
So you don’t accept the conclusions of both post-mortems then?

He died from a heart attack, what can I say!
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2021, 08:27:26 AM »
He died from a heart attack, what can I say!
You don’t have to say anything more but you might like to read this

Editor’s Note (3/29/21): The murder trial of Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer charged in the death of George Floyd, began with the defense arguing that Floyd died of underlying medical conditions and drug use. This contradicts two autopsy reports—one by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office and the other by private doctors commissioned by Floyd's family—that ruled the cause of death was homicide. This story from June 2020, written by 12 physicians, explains how inaccurately portraying the medical findings from Floyd’s autopsy emboldens white supremacy under the cloak of authoritative scientific rhetoric.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/george-floyds-autopsy-and-the-structural-gaslighting-of-america/
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:30:31 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2021, 08:36:28 AM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 2 cont'd...

Next witness was MPD Officer Nicole MacKenzie, Medical Support Coordinator

Direct examination was by Schleicher, he had MacKenzie testify about how officers had a duty of care to suspects, that Chauvin had CPR and other training that would qualify him to provide emergency care, and that such care must be provided by the officer even if an ambulance has already been called.  This was all particularly the case if the suspect was unresponsive, if the suspect was in handcuffs, if the suspect was in the prone position, and so forth.

Isn’t it true, Nelson asked MacKenzie, that you train officers to consider not just the suspect, but the totality of the scene? Yes, she replied.

Isn’t it true that police officers also have a competing duty of safety to themselves, their partners, to bystanders, that paramedics, for example, don’t have?  To the point that if the scene is unsafe, if the officers haven’t already announced a code 4 “all safe,” that EMTs will stage a distance away until they are told safety has been achieved. Yes, MacKenzie replied.

And isn’t it true that the safety concern might come not from the suspect himself, but from angry bystanders? Indeed.

We keep seeing Nelson circle back to this reality, and it’s a potent view of the events around Floyd’s death. It raises the legitimate question of whether it was, in fact, the angry bystanders who in effect “killed” Floyd by interfering with the officers’ ability to provide Floyd with the attention and care which he’d otherwise have received.

Indeed, their angry presence compelled the paramedics to do a “load and scoot” of Floyd, delaying his effective treatment, and resulting in further delays when the fire department could initially not find the re-located ambulance.

Along these lines, Nelson also touched on a new issue, that of agonal breathing.  This is a kind of “last gasp” desperate type of breathing a body near death engages in, and is generally considered an ineffective form of respiration and a sign of really desperate physiological condition.

Isn’t it true, Nelson asked, that agonal breathing could be misinterpreted by officers as just breathing?  Yes, answered MacKenzie.  Would this be a more likely misinterpretation if the scene was noisy, disruptive, had the presence of a loud angry mob?  It would, answered MacKenzie.

Nelson noted that one of the CPR training slides previously shown by Schleicher on direct questioning of MacKenzie had indicated that one of the reasons an officer could justifiably cease performing CPR was if the circumstances were not safe enough to allow continued CPR.  Would this also mean that unsafe circumstances could justify not starting CPR in the first place, even where CPR would otherwise be warranted.  Yes, answered MacKenzie.

A highlight of the cross of MacKenzie occurred when Nelson pulled up another slide from the training materials.  This one showed a picture of a type seen many times, intended to illustrate in dramatic form just how lethal fentanyl is.

The picture showed a vial of heroine, with a small bit of powder in it—that small amount of heroine represented a fatal dose.  Beside it was a second vial, with a much smaller amount of a powder—that represented a fatal dose of fentanyl. Finally there was a third vial, with a truly miniscule amount of powder—that represented a fatal dose of a particular common variant of fentanyl.

One can only imagine the effect this had on a jury that is naïve to the lethality of fentanyl, especially given that death by fentanyl overdose is the obvious explanation for Floyd’s death as an alternative to Chauvin’s death knee.

The prosecution raised an objection, and there was a lengthy sidebar. When Nelson returned to cross, he immediately moved on to another topic, so perhaps Cahill upheld the state’s objection to the vials image.

Nelson began to explore the question of excited delirium with MacKenzie. This was a topic that MacKenzie trained MPD officers on, so she had expertise, and Chauvin would have received this training, so the knowledge is relevant to his decision-making with respect to Floyd.

You’ll recall that we can hear the officers discussing concerns about excited delirium on their BWC videos.

The importance of excited delirium for the defence is that it explains both a lot of Floyd’s erratic behavior, raises genuine concerns of super-human strength on the part of the already very large Floyd, provides a justification for the sustained restraint of Floyd’s entire body from foot to head as that’s part of the excited delirium protocol for police, and more.

Naturally, the prosecution objected, and there was another sidebar. When Nelson returned he again promptly moved on—but, we’ll learn, not because he was giving up on excited delirium—and not without having yet another line of questioning for MacKenzie that would prove severely damaging to the state.

Here Nelson began to ask again about the reasons that arriving paramedics might do a “load and scoot.”  Why that approach, if the patient needs care?

One reason, MacKenzie answered, was that the patient might need immediate care that could only be provided at the hospital, such as emergency surgery.

Understood, replied Nelson, but might there be another reason?

Yes, answered MacKenzie. Unfortunately, and this might be hard to believe, she said, but there have been instances in which paramedics were attacked by an angry crowd.  If that’s a concern, the paramedics might do a load and scoot purely for reasons of their safety.

Exactly as happened in the case of the paramedics arriving at the Floyd scene.

Is one of the reasons the ambulance might do a load and scoot is not just the safety of the paramedics, but that the presence of an imminently threatening crowd would make it difficult or impossible for the paramedics to focus on providing proper care to their patient?

Yes, answered MacKenzie.

On re-direct Schleicher asked MacKenzie, that officers shouldn’t expect to only have a duty to provide care under perfect circumstances?  MacKenzie agreed.

Schleicher then asked MacKenzie for her definition of a hostile crowd.

Her answer:  A growing contingent of people, yelling, being verbally abusive to those providing scene security, acting in manner that could interfere with care.

Exactly as the mob was conducting itself at the Floyd scene.

It was at this point, when both sides had completed today’s questioning of MacKenzie, that it was revealed that the state had objected to Nelson’s asking MacKenzie about excited delirium. Rather than fight that objection, Nelson took a different approach entirely.

He informed the court that he intended to recall MacKenzie as a defence witness for his own case in chief.

Not only was MacKenzie’s testimony, as a state’s witness, incredibly damaging to the state itself when Nelson was limited to the role of cross-examination, and limited by the state’s own scope on direct, Nelson was going to bring MacKenzie back as a defence witness, where he would be in control of the scope of direct, and the state would find itself limited on cross examination.

And that was it for state’s witness MacKenzie—until we next see her as defence witness MacKenzie.

(Summary acknowledgment Attorney Andrew Branca)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:24:57 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.