Author Topic: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd  (Read 30981 times)

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Offline carlymichelle

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2021, 09:55:41 PM »
im watching the  court case it sounds like   georges   fentyl and meth levels  were  low i could  be misunderstanding but thats what im gathering

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2021, 11:07:26 PM »
im watching the  court case it sounds like   georges   fentyl and meth levels  were  low i could  be misunderstanding but thats what im gathering

Watching Nelson attempt to cross examine Dr Tobin was cringeworthy. I think Nelson is going to have trouble with his voice poor b....r.

Tobin has certainly damaged the fentanyl and methamphetamine cause of death argument.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:18:28 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2021, 11:20:50 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 4 cont'd...

Next state's witness is Dr Daniel Isenschmid, forensic toxicologist of NMS Labs, Horsham, Pennsylvania.

Direct examination by Erin Eldridge.

Dr Daniel Isenschmid testified that he tested blood drawn from Floyd at the hospital and urine from his autopsy, which found fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system.

Dr Isenschmid said fentanyl and norfentanyl, which is a byproduct of its breakdown, were both found in his body, as well as a 'very low' amount of methamphetamine.

He told the court that even though there was a high level of fentanyl in Floyd's bloodstream – 11ng ml where a 3ng ml could be lethal – individual tolerance had to be taken into account.

The toxicology expert suggested Floyd's tolerance had been high as a regular user.

He also pointed to the presence of norfentanyl – a metabolic of fentanyl.

Dr Isenschmid said that he wouldn't expect to see this in a case where death had occurred as a result of fentanyl overdose because the body wouldn't have had a chance to metabolize the drug.

He described the level of meth in Floyd's bloodstream – 19ng ml - as no more than he would expect to find in the blood of a patient who had consumed a single legally prescribed dose and his amphetamine was below reportable levels.

His testimony essentially rejected the defence's theory that Floyd's drug use and underlying health problems were what killed him.

Defense attorney Eric Nelson has argued that Chauvin did what he was trained to do and that Floyd's death was caused by illegal drugs and underlying medical problems that included high blood pressure and heart disease.

Putting Floyd's blood toxicology into context, Dr Isenschmid told the court that of 2345 DUI blood samples analyzed by his lab, 376 – all of whom survived - had levels of fentanyl upwards of 16ng ml in their blood stream with the highest coming in at a staggering 50ng ml.

In contrast, Floyd's blood fentanyl level was below the average and the median in the DUI cases they had analyzed.

Similarly, Floyd's levels of meth put him in the bottom 15.2 percent of 3271 DUI blood samples analyzed by the lab, with 215 drivers recording levels of methamphetamine greater than 1000ng ml. 

In a brief cross-examination, Nelson tried to strip Isenschmid's testimony of significance and keep open the door to his contention that fentanyl is what caused Floyd's death.

Nelson suggested there was no way to know how much fentanyl Floyd had ingested, and Isenschmid agreed.  Nelson also suggested that it's impossible to know the concentration of fentanyl in illegal street drugs.

'Every single pill you take, it becomes a unique experience for the person, right?' Isenschmid agreed. 

Nelson pointed out that there was no field of reference in the 19,185 post mortem cases from which Isenschmid drew median and average fentanyl levels and sought to draw comparisons to Floyd as the doctor could not give cause of death on any of them.
 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:25:52 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #123 on: April 09, 2021, 01:30:38 AM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 4 cont'd...

Last witness was Dr Bill Smock, forensic medicine specialist.

Direct by Jerry Blackwell.

Smock told the trial that when George Floyd cried out 'I can't breathe' he was exhibiting the desperation of 'air hunger'.

Building on the testimony from other prosecution witnesses earlier, Dr Smock was asked to give his medical opinion on Floyd's cause of death.

Smock knocked down any other suggesting, saying Floyd died from positional asphyxia, which he said was 'a fancy way of saying he died because he had no oxygen left in his body'.

'When the body is deprived of oxygen, in this case from pressure on this chest and back, he gradually succumbed to lower and lower levels of oxygen until he succumbed and he died,' he said.

Dr Smock said that he had considered and dismissed other causes including the defence's causes of choice – fentanyl overdose and excited delirium.

One by one, he explained the symptoms of excited delirium – including excessive sweating, being unaffected by pain and super-human strength – and dismissed them pointing out that Floyd was cold to the touch, complaining of pain from the moment he was on the ground and unable to throw the police officers from his back.

Asked by  how many of the 10 recognized symptoms he observed, Dr Smock answered: 'Zip.'

He discarded fentanyl overdose as a possible cause of death because he said, Floyd was not falling into a coma, snoring, or slowing down in breathing.

He was, instead, fighting for his life and demonstrating 'air hunger' as he struggled to breathe. He pointed to Floyd's weakening voice as evidence that the life was draining from him and recognised Floyd's dying moments in his altering facial expressions and anoxic seizure – when his legs kicked out straight behind him.

Dr Smock explained that since Floyd was a chronic drug users the levels of narcotics and their metabolites found in his blood stream really meant very little.

He said: 'You don't rely on the level, you look at the patient.'

Defence attorney Nelson pointed to the fact that there was no bruising on Floyd's neck and throat post mortem as proof that Chauvin's knee did not dig into him until the life was squeezed out of him.

But Dr Smock, who is also a specialist in strangulation, said: 'You can be fatally strangled and died of asphyxia and have no bruising.'

Blackwell also asked Dr Smock about CPR and when, in his opinion, it should have been started.

'As soon as Mr Floyd was unconscious. He should have been rolled over and we have documentation on the video that the officer says, 'I can't find a pulse',' he said.

'It should have been started way before. He should have been rolled over, check his respiration but clearly when they can't find a pulse CPR should have been started.'

In cross examination Nelson tried to undercut the validity of Dr Smock's opinion from the outset by reminding the jury that he was neither a pathologist or board certified in forensic pathology.

He asked him what evidence for positional asphyxia had been found at autopsy, Dr Smock replied, 'The evidence was not at autopsy it was on the video tape.'

Addressing the fact that Dr Smock had dismissed the levels of methamphetamine in Floyd's system as meaninglessly low, Nelson put it to him that, 'There is no safe level of methamphetamine is there?' Dr Smock agreed.

He pointed out that Floyd had said 'I can't breathe' multiple times before anyone was on his back and before he was prone on the ground.

And he reminded the jury of all of Floyd's underlying health issues – among them a 90% blockage of an artery in his heart – painting the picture of a man under attack from his own cardiac disease and the drugs that he had ingested.

As far as the levels of those drugs found in Floyd's system Nelson suggested to Dr Smock that tolerance to controlled substances was not fixed but varied according to usage.

He said, 'If someone's not using a substance for two to three months they're going to lose that tolerance…[and if they start using again] it's not going to immediately jump back up.'

Last week the court heard from Floyd's girlfriend Courtney Ross who spoke openly about the opioid addiction with which both she and Floyd had struggled. She said how both of them had tried to stop using and that only in recent months did she notice changes in his behavior that made her think he was using again.

But when Blackwell rose to question Dr Smock again on redirect, he took him through his opinions once again and once again Dr Smock stated that Floyd's death wasn't a sudden one but due to 'a gradual decrease in levels of oxygen…because of the pressure being applied to his back and his neck.'

Court ends for the day.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:48:09 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #124 on: April 09, 2021, 07:16:24 AM »
Much better reportage John, have you changed sources or has your right wing blogger stopped spinning the day’s proceedings?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline carlymichelle

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #125 on: April 09, 2021, 08:44:50 AM »
Watching Nelson attempt to cross examine Dr Tobin was cringeworthy. I think Nelson is going to have trouble with his voice poor b....r.

Tobin has certainly damaged the fentanyl and methamphetamine cause of death argument.

here in australia meth has a  few names methamphetamine  crystal meth and  ICE

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #126 on: April 09, 2021, 08:57:34 AM »

I started out feeling desperately sorry for Floyd.  Now I am not so sure.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #127 on: April 09, 2021, 09:19:18 AM »
I started out feeling desperately sorry for Floyd.  Now I am not so sure.
IMO no one deserves to die in that manner, no matter what their life choices, crimes or misdemeanours.  Once it became clear he posed no threat to himself, law officers or the public and certainly when it became obvious he was unconscious, the knee should have come off his body and rescusitation should have commenced immediately.  This did not happen and was a disastrous decision by Chauvin who will I'm sure pay for it with a long spell in prison. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline barrier

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #128 on: April 09, 2021, 09:31:09 AM »
IMO no one deserves to die in that manner, no matter what their life choices, crimes or misdemeanours.  Once it became clear he posed no threat to himself, law officers or the public and certainly when it became obvious he was unconscious, the knee should have come off his body and rescusitation should have commenced immediately.  This did not happen and was a disastrous decision by Chauvin who will I'm sure pay for it with a long spell in prison.

From John's opening summary of the trial, do you think that a jury will be convinced beyond reasonable doubt this will be the case.


The prosecution opening speech made the case that unreasonable force was used to subdue George Floyd resulting in his death by asphyxiation. They alleged that former police officer Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd by keeping his knee on Floyd's neck for some nine minutes. They allege that the officers actions were not in keeping with Minneapolis Police Department training or protocol, that they were excessive and did not represent reasonable force.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #129 on: April 09, 2021, 09:40:32 AM »
IMO no one deserves to die in that manner, no matter what their life choices, crimes or misdemeanours.  Once it became clear he posed no threat to himself, law officers or the public and certainly when it became obvious he was unconscious, the knee should have come off his body and rescusitation should have commenced immediately.  This did not happen and was a disastrous decision by Chauvin who will I'm sure pay for it with a long spell in prison.

I agree.  But it's whether or not Floyd was murdered that is in question.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #130 on: April 09, 2021, 09:46:49 AM »
From John's opening summary of the trial, do you think that a jury will be convinced beyond reasonable doubt this will be the case.


The prosecution opening speech made the case that unreasonable force was used to subdue George Floyd resulting in his death by asphyxiation. They alleged that former police officer Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd by keeping his knee on Floyd's neck for some nine minutes. They allege that the officers actions were not in keeping with Minneapolis Police Department training or protocol, that they were excessive and did not represent reasonable force.
I think so, yes.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #131 on: April 09, 2021, 04:42:26 PM »
I agree.  But it's whether or not Floyd was murdered that is in question.

I still think that involuntary manslaughter will carry the day. Remember, it only takes one juror to scuttle it and going by this morning's behind the scenes shenanigans I think the jury could be in revolt. We should find out more later.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #132 on: April 09, 2021, 04:45:19 PM »
I still think that involuntary manslaughter will carry the day. Remember, it only takes one juror to scuttle it and going by this morning's behind the scenes shenanigans I think the jury could be in revolt. We should find out more later.
What’s been occurring?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #133 on: April 09, 2021, 04:45:57 PM »
Much better reportage John, have you changed sources or has your right wing blogger stopped spinning the day’s proceedings?

I starting doing my own summary but it's intensive. I might cut back on it though.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #134 on: April 09, 2021, 04:46:40 PM »
What’s been occurring?

An issue with a juror. Should find out more soon.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.