Prosecution evidence?

[Angelo222]

John you have raised two important points of evidence...

the shopping was in the house that Joanna bought
Childs handprint in blood

Could you tell us where you got this information from

You can add to this the evidence by Antonio Leandro the partner who stated that there was no need to send Joana to the shop for milk as he himself had stocked up on that product.

Not forgetting too that Leandro told the court that Joao confessed to him and Leonor told an entirely different story to him when he visited her in prison sending him out back to search for a body.  Are you going to tell me these are the actions of 'innocents' ??

[Mr Gray]

You can add to this the evidence by Antonio Leandro the partner who stated that there was no need to send Joana to the shop for milk as he himself had stocked up on that product.

Not forgetting too that Leandro told the court that Joao confessed to him and Leonor told an entirely different story to him when he visited her in prison sending him out back to search for a body.  Are you going to tell me these are the actions of 'innocents' ??

im asking where the information comes from...yours as well while we are at it...the more I look at this case the more I think they are innocent

[Mr Gray]

I would go even further...there is no real evidence that either committed a crime,  despite the claims of a large number of blood stains ..no dna match...

[Angelo222]

I would go even further...there is no real evidence that either committed a crime,  despite the claims of a large number of blood stains ..no dna match...

Just out of curiosity Dave what would you call real evidence?  Was their refusal to speak in court a clue for you??

[Mr Gray]

Just out of curiosity Dave what would you call real evidence?  Was their refusal to speak in court a clue for you??

Still no answer to the source of the so called evidence..real evidence..blood dna match...the fact that it doesn't indicates she did not bleed at the supposed murder scene

[Angelo222]

Still no answer to the source of the so called evidence..real evidence..blood dna match...the fact that it doesn't indicates she did not bleed at the supposed murder scene

The source of the evidence is the court.  I agree that the forensics were unable to get a DNA match for the blood found on the door frame, walls and floors as the Ciprianos used petrol and bleach to mask the contaminant.

Why would Joao tell Leandro that he killed her and fed the remains to the pigs if it was a load of nonsense?

[Mr Gray]

The source of the evidence is the court.  I agree that the forensics were unable to get a DNA match for the blood found on the door frame, walls and floors as the Ciprianos used petrol and bleach to mask the contaminant.

 So you have the court transcripts

[Carana]

I've just realised that quite a bit of the Supreme Court document hasn't been translated...

[Mr Gray]

The source of the evidence is the court.  I agree that the forensics were unable to get a DNA match for the blood found on the door frame, walls and floors as the Ciprianos used petrol and bleach to mask the contaminant.

Why would Joao tell Leandro that he killed her and fed the remains to the pigs if it was a load of nonsense?

its all about what is and isn't true ...so whats the source for this statement

[Carana]

The source of the evidence is the court.  I agree that the forensics were unable to get a DNA match for the blood found on the door frame, walls and floors as the Ciprianos used petrol and bleach to mask the contaminant.

Why would Joao tell Leandro that he killed her and fed the remains to the pigs if it was a load of nonsense?

That seems to be the prosecution's hypothesis.

Not proved:
15- that arguida BB used detergent and bleach to wash the wall and the floor where blood spots from CC were;

And she didn't even buy this petrol/kerosene, whatever it was, until 18 Sept.


aad) on the 18th of September, arguida BB bought petrol and a steel scrub-cloth, with which she washed the house, thus seizing the opportunity to erase almost all vestiges of what had happened there, and only traces of human blood which had been contaminated by the products that were used, remained inside the house;

[Mr Gray]

it seem there are a lot of claims being made that do not have any credence...myths basically

[Angelo222]

it seem there are a lot of claims being made that do not have any credence...myths basically

Most certainly not myths.  Its not my fault that you cannot research Portuguese reporting on the day of the trial.  Its all there in black and white in the CdM and the other dailys.  I find it amusing that everyone can research the McCann case but the minute the language changes to Portuguese they all run away claiming there is no evidence.

Fact: Petrol and bleach were used to clean blood from the surfaces.  It was up to the jury to decide why?

Fact: Leandro gave evidence to the court that Joao confessed to him that he did the the murder.  It was up to the jury to decide whether he was a credible witness.

Fact: Leandro gave evidence to the court that some of his tools including a hacksaw disappeared along with Joana.  Again it was down to the jury to make the connection.

All circumstantial evidence certainly but evidence all the same.

[Carana]

Only the first few witness statements seem to have been translated.

In the missing ones, (if I've understood the gist) is one (MM who seems to be Leandro's stepfather) which seems to be stating that a woman had phone saying she was Leonor at about 12:30 am to ask about Joana as she'd disappeared and he saw her crying the next day on her way to or from the police station to make the official report.

[Carana]

Most certainly not myths.  Its not my fault that you cannot research Portuguese reporting on the day of the trial.  Its all there in black and white in the CdM and the other dailys.  I find it amusing that everyone can research the McCann case but the minute the language changes to Portuguese they all run away claiming there is no evidence.

Fact: Petrol and bleach were used to clean blood from the surfaces.  It was up to the jury to decide why?

Fact: Leandro gave evidence to the court that Joao confessed to him that he did the the murder.  It was up to the jury to decide whether he was a credible witness.

Fact: Leandro gave evidence to the court that some of his tools including a hacksaw disappeared along with Joana.  Again it was down to the jury to make the connection.

All circumstantial evidence certainly but evidence all the same.

It is a fact that it was alleged that bleach and petrol had been used. There doesn't appear to be any forensic evidence for that in the court document.

See my earlier post...

[Mr Gray]

Most certainly not myths.  Its not my fault that you cannot research Portuguese reporting on the day of the trial.  Its all there in black and white in the CdM and the other dailys.  I find it amusing that everyone can research the McCann case but the minute the language changes to Portuguese they all run away claiming there is no evidence.

Fact: Petrol and bleach were used to clean blood from the surfaces.  It was up to the jury to decide why?

Fact: Leandro gave evidence to the court that Joao confessed to him that he did the the murder.  It was up to the jury to decide whether he was a credible witness.

Fact: Leandro gave evidence to the court that some of his tools including a hacksaw disappeared along with Joana.  Again it was down to the jury to make the connection.

All circumstantial evidence certainly but evidence all the same.

from what I can see you are getting all this from newspapers..the same papers who said things like Gerry wasn't maddies real father