Author Topic: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.  (Read 64055 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #225 on: October 05, 2017, 09:56:25 PM »
You cannot be declared a suspect in a theoretical crime. The disappearance of a child is not a crime in itself.

You missed the IMO. IMO if the police suspect a crime has taken place then even if they don’t know what it specifically is they can still arrest on suspicion in order to question.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline misty

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #226 on: October 05, 2017, 10:09:29 PM »
You missed the IMO. IMO if the police suspect a crime has taken place then even if they don’t know what it specifically is they can still arrest on suspicion in order to question.

The McCanns were not under arrest. They had to be made arguidos in order for the PJ to ask more searching questions than were allowed for witnesses. In order to arrest someone, the nature of the crime first has to be established.
You will note in the Sept 2007 interviews that all questions to Kate regarding events before 5.30pm on 3/5/07 were asked of her as a witness but those relating to events after 5.30pm were under arguido status.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #227 on: October 05, 2017, 11:14:15 PM »
The McCanns were not under arrest. They had to be made arguidos in order for the PJ to ask more searching questions than were allowed for witnesses. In order to arrest someone, the nature of the crime first has to be established.
You will note in the Sept 2007 interviews that all questions to Kate regarding events before 5.30pm on 3/5/07 were asked of her as a witness but those relating to events after 5.30pm were under arguido status.

As you appeared to be talking generally so was I.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline misty

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #228 on: October 05, 2017, 11:27:33 PM »
As you appeared to be talking generally so was I.

Would you accept that the McCanns are as innocent of an unspecified crime as all the paedophiles, M Green, D Groom & Murat's associates who were investigated but never made arguidos?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #229 on: October 06, 2017, 08:35:15 AM »
Would you accept that the McCanns are as innocent of an unspecified crime as all the paedophiles, M Green, D Groom & Murat's associates who were investigated but never made arguidos?

Again that is not a general question and off topic.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #230 on: October 06, 2017, 12:11:30 PM »

I will be removing any further Off Topic Posts.

Offline misty

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #231 on: October 06, 2017, 12:49:52 PM »
Again that is not a general question and off topic.

Ok. I'll phrase it another way. Would you agree that the McCanns are more innocent than Cristovao who was facing charges whilst also serving a suspended sentence but now has been granted the presumption of innocence whilst said charges are re-investigated?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #232 on: October 06, 2017, 01:11:20 PM »
Ok. I'll phrase it another way. Would you agree that the McCanns are more innocent than Cristovao who was facing charges whilst also serving a suspended sentence but now has been granted the presumption of innocence whilst said charges are re-investigated?

Anyone going into a trial has a presumption of innocence until the prosecution provides sufficient proof of guilt. The police do not have to presume anyone is innocent, their job is to find evidence that will help to prove guilt (or innocence to remove someone from the enquiry). I am not going to comment on specific cases.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline sadie

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #233 on: October 06, 2017, 01:30:25 PM »
Anyone going into a trial has a presumption of innocence until the prosecution provides sufficient proof of guilt. The police do not have to presume anyone is innocent, their job is to find evidence that will help to prove guilt (or innocence to remove someone from the enquiry). I am not going to comment on specific cases.
I thought that this thread was about an individual case.  Cristovaos.


All misty did was compare his case to the Mccanns, which after all is what this board is about.

Are you saying that we are not allowed to compare the two cases?

We are not allowed to expose what seem to be gross injustices between the treatment of Cristovao and The Mccanns?

Cristovao, a proven criminal and up on other very nasty charges .... and The Mccanns who are guilty of nothing at all.     In fact there is nothing against them except for a group with suspicious minds ....

So the criminal, Cristovao, is entitled to be called innocent, but Madeleines family, with NOTHING against them can have all sorts of accusations aimed at them.


That's OK is it ?   Do you think that is OK Slarti?

Offline misty

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #234 on: October 06, 2017, 01:32:04 PM »
Anyone going into a trial has a presumption of innocence until the prosecution provides sufficient proof of guilt. The police do not have to presume anyone is innocent, their job is to find evidence that will help to prove guilt (or innocence to remove someone from the enquiry). I am not going to comment on specific cases.

In other words, if a person has never faced charges or trial, it is unjust of any Supreme Court judge to state that one person is not as innocent as any other citizen who was questioned but never charged  in connection with an undetermined crime.

Offline John

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #235 on: October 06, 2017, 02:29:10 PM »
Appeals Court maintains decision not to try Paulo Pereira Cristóvão for corruption.



By Lusa
Published 4th October 2017



The Lisbon Court of Appeals (TRL) on Wednesday upheld the decision not to bring to trial the former Sporting vice-president Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, who was accused of corruption, for obtaining sensitive data from soccer referees.

In February, the Public Prosecution Service (MP) appealed against a "non-judgmental decision" issued by a former Criminal Investigation Court (TIC) judge, who was also a former inspector of the Judicial Police (PJ) of Lisbon.

"The Lisbon Court of Appeal dismissed the appeal by the Public Prosecutor's Office that the defendant Paulo Pereira Cristóvão was pronounced in this case, also for a crime of corruption, confirming the decision of the Judge of Instruction that did not pronounce him for this crime," the TRL said in a response sent this afternoon to Lusa.

Contacted by Lusa, the lawyer of Paulo Pereira Cristóvão was satisfied with the judgment of the TRL.

"As I said before leaving the Court of Criminal Investigation of Lisbon in February, it is good to note that the investigation phase still serves something, even if there has to be a decision of the Relation to confirm it," said Rui Costa Pereira .

The lawyer lamented, however, that this decision of the Lisbon Relation "only arose because of an incomprehensible decision of the Public Prosecution Service - guarantor of legality - of appealing a decision, which affirmed precisely the legality."

In April 2016, the MP accused the former leader of active corruption for allegedly obtaining sensitive data from almost 200 soccer referees through finance officials, also accused in the process, and his defense required the opening of education , alleging that his client was already being tried for these facts in the case known as the 'Cardinal case' and that he could not be tried twice for the same facts.

Margarida Gaspar, the judge in charge of the criminal investigation of the TIC in Lisbon, gave a reasoning in the defense decision of Pereira Cristóvão and did not pronounce the former manager of Sporting.

The TIC of Lisbon argued that the facts attributed to Paulo Pereira Cristóvão in this indictment have already been tried in the 'Cardinal case', in which the former vice-president of Sporting was sentenced to a suspended sentence of four and a half years in prison and to the payment of 25,000 euros to former assistant referee Jose Cardinal.

A different opinion had the deputy prosecutor of the prosecution MP, Vera Camacho, who at the investigation stage argued that they were dealing with different crimes, which is why he argued that all defendants should be pronounced and tried in this case of corruption, reason by which he brought an appeal, now denied by the judges adjudicating the Lisbon Relation.

The initial lawsuit had 13 defendants, but is now on trial for 11 defendants, without Paulo Pereira Cristóvão and without a lawyer, to whom the Lisbon ITC had provisionally suspended proceedings.

Among the 11 defendants, there were two lawyers, an engineer, two accountants, a commercial, a graphic and a collaborator of a bank who, through their functions, obtained, through three employees of a Lisbon finance office , personal, patrimonial, banking and fiscal elements, in exchange for money.

The three employees were working in the same finance division and, according to the Public Prosecutor's Office, will have collected close to 1.3 million euros unlawfully.

Already in the case known as the 'Cardinal case', Paulo Pereira Cristóvão was convicted of two crimes of embezzlement, one of illegitimate access and one of slanderous denunciation.

The defendant appealed against this judgment to the TRL which would confirm, in this case, the suspended sentence of four and a half years, but reduced the compensation from 40,000 to 25,000 euros.

In the 'Cardinal case', Pereira Cristóvão will have asked his collaborator Rui Martins to go to Funchal to make a deposit of 2,000 euros in José Cardinal's account, and later accuse him of having been bribed before a match between Sporting and Marítimo.

In addition, he was also tried for creating a list containing personal data of arbitrators, 35 of whom claimed civil damages as they felt intimidated by the disclosure of the same.

The TRL also confirmed that the former sports manager will have to pay € 500 to each of these 35 referees, for a total of € 17,500.

https://www.jn.pt/justica/interior/relacao-de-lisboa-mantem-decisao-de-nao-julgar-paulo-pereira-cristovao-por-corrupcao-8820396.html
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 02:46:39 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #236 on: October 06, 2017, 02:37:40 PM »
So the presumption of innocence only applies to people who are charged with a crime. What is the legal status of people who are not charged with a crime, especially a crime which cannot even be defined?

Persons of interest?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #237 on: October 06, 2017, 02:45:48 PM »
You asked-So the presumption of innocence only applies to people who are charged with a crime.

The answer is Yes! exactly.

Let me explain.  You saw me standing at a bus stop and the glass was smashed- you call the police and they arrest me because you have accused me, you believe I am responsible for this crime. ( note the word believe because you didn't actually see me do it) Only I know if I did it or not.
On your say so I am arrested on suspicion of committing a crime ( this mean I am a suspect)- this is the important part- The police can only suspect me and then go find evidence and eye witnesses of me committing this crime- during this time I am to be presumed innocent -in other words they can't go to the press and say I did it. If no evidence is found  I cannot be charged with a crime but I can still be suspected of doing it for the rest of my life. It would be a theory as to why and how I did it ,but that would just be a theory.

I do hope this clears up this whole the McCanns were not presumed innocent diatribe. It is so boring and it comes across as being genuine when it is not.

So to summarise: the McCanns were suspects in their daughters disappearance, the PJ had a theory. Full stop. 8(>((


Despite what we have been led to believe according to various pronouncements emanating from police sources in Lisbon and London, should that not be "are still suspects" given the recent ruling by the Portuguese Supreme Court on innocence and the fact that nothing has actually changed since the arguido status pertaining to Murat and the McCanns was lifted?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 02:49:41 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline misty

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #238 on: October 06, 2017, 03:21:10 PM »
Despite what we have been led to believe according to various pronouncements emanating from police sources in Lisbon and London, should that not be "are still suspects" given the recent ruling by the Portuguese Supreme Court on innocence and the fact that nothing has actually changed since the arguido status pertaining to Murat and the McCanns was lifted?

Again, I ask what right has the SC to pass judgement on the innocence of POI's in a criminal case which has never been tried because no criminal act had been identified at the time of the archiving report they referred to?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
« Reply #239 on: October 06, 2017, 06:31:51 PM »
Again, I ask what right has the SC to pass judgement on the innocence of POI's in a criminal case which has never been tried because no criminal act had been identified at the time of the archiving report they referred to?

It didn’t, it just pointed out that they hadn’t been cleared as had been claimed.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.