Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.

[misty]

It didn’t, it just pointed out that they hadn’t been cleared as had been claimed.

Cleared of what? No crime had ever been determined.

[slartibartfast]

Cleared of what? No crime had ever been determined.

Of being involved.

[misty]

Of being involved.

The disappearance of someone is not a crime. The PJ could find no evidence any crime. Corpus delicti.

[slartibartfast]

The disappearance of someone is not a crime. The PJ could find no evidence any crime. Corpus delicti.

Let’s spell it out, it was said that the McCanns had been cleared of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance, the SC corrected that misconception but reiterated that they had not lost the presumption of innocence. Happy?

[misty]

Let’s spell it out, it was said that the McCanns had been cleared of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance, the SC corrected that misconception but reiterated that they had not lost the presumption of innocence. Happy?

No, because clearly that misconception was detrimental to the McCanns right to a good name especially when the very person opining on their innocence via a theory was the same one who was instrumental in formulating the theory.

[slartibartfast]

No, because clearly that misconception was detrimental to the McCanns right to a good name especially when the very person opining on their innocence via a theory was the same one who was instrumental in formulating the theory.

The misconception was that they were cleared?

[barrier]

No, because clearly that misconception was detrimental to the McCanns right to a good name especially when the very person opining on their innocence via a theory was the same one who was instrumental in formulating the theory.

The SC do not hold that view.

[misty]

The misconception was that they were cleared?

According to the archiving report, the nature of any crime, if indeed there was one, had not been determined so there was nothing to be cleared of. The McCanns right to a good reputation was the same as anyone else's in Luz on 3/5/2007, in the circumstances. Therefore, it was inappropriate & unjust for the SC to suggest otherwise.

[barrier]

According to the archiving report, the nature of any crime, if indeed there was one, had not been determined so there was nothing to be cleared of. The McCanns right to a good reputation was the same as anyone else's in Luz on 3/5/2007, in the circumstances. Therefore, it was inappropriate & unjust for the SC to suggest otherwise.

On whose say so?

[Miss Taken Identity]

According to the archiving report, the nature of any crime, if indeed there was one, had not been determined so there was nothing to be cleared of. The McCanns right to a good reputation was the same as anyone else's in Luz on 3/5/2007, in the circumstances. Therefore, it was inappropriate & unjust for the SC to suggest otherwise.

With all due resspect Misty, What are you on about I am confused.
With regards to 'presumed innocent' which is being banded about  in connection with Maddies parents Human rights  being affected in some way, it is a bit rich for you to post on a public forum
quote
 Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
unquote
 are you complaining about his right to a good name or his human rights regarding his right to a good name? well No!  you didn't even bother to put the word in alledged in that sentence. So quite happy to stick a sword in his back because?...

With regards to your claim about no crime,
quote
 the nature of any crime, if indeed there was one,
unquote
again this is  a strange get up on words considering it is the very pepole who you are  and have been defending of their claim that their child was abducted. Which kind of makes your  words  fall out of sync with all your other supporting/defending posts of the parents.

So, just to recap on the crime or no crime quiz..

Kate  n Gerry claim to have had a daughter, claimed they took said daughter on holiday, claimed she was abducted from her bed while on this holiday, notified the police  as they belived a 'crime' had been commited. The police believe the couple in so far as: they did have a daughter and she was missing AND decided to investigate the claims made.. am I going to fast?    is there any part of this NOT making sense?  because the way I see it the police DO accept a crime was commited and they also S U S  P E C T the parents as being involved in some way of that occurance-whatever that occurance  is.  Their good name is just as good as  Paulo Pereira Cristovao. because he hasn't been found guilty of anything yet!

So can we summerise:
Parents are suspected of being involved in their daughters disappearance- which they claimed  was an abduction, the police have a theory as to what happened and they wrote about it claiming the parents were involved in some way- the McCanns lawyer states that the McCanns are innocent according to the file- the file and the court says no the files does not say that.

There all cleared up now.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Despite what we have been led to believe according to various pronouncements emanating from police sources in Lisbon and London, should that not be "are still suspects" given the recent ruling by the Portuguese Supreme Court on innocence and the fact that nothing has actually changed since the arguido status pertaining to Murat and the McCanns was lifted?

Indeed, that still stands John. Untill we are told otherwise, the McCanns are still suspected of being involved in their daughters disappearance.

Which the parents claimed a crime was commited against their daughter, which caused her disappearance, after questioning and investigating that is the conclusion of the PJ.

[misty]

With all due resspect Misty, What are you on about I am confused.
With regards to 'presumed innocent' which is being banded about  in connection with Maddies parents Human rights  being affected in some way, it is a bit rich for you to post on a public forum
quote
 Former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery.
unquote
 are you complaining about his right to a good name or his human rights regarding his right to a good name? well No!  you didn't even bother to put the word in alledged in that sentence. So quite happy to stick a sword in his back because?...

With regards to your claim about no crime,
quote
 the nature of any crime, if indeed there was one,
unquote
again this is  a strange get up on words considering it is the very pepole who you are  and have been defending of their claim that their child was abducted. Which kind of makes your  words  fall out of sync with all your other supporting/defending posts of the parents.

So, just to recap on the crime or no crime quiz..

Kate  n Gerry claim to have had a daughter, claimed they took said daughter on holiday, claimed she was abducted from her bed while on this holiday, notified the police  as they belived a 'crime' had been commited. The police believe the couple in so far as: they did have a daughter and she was missing AND decided to investigate the claims made.. am I going to fast?    is there any part of this NOT making sense?  because the way I see it the police DO accept a crime was commited and they also S U S  P E C T the parents as being involved in some way of that occurance-whatever that occurance  is.  Their good name is just as good as  Paulo Pereira Cristovao. because he hasn't been found guilty of anything yet!

So can we summerise:
Parents are suspected of being involved in their daughters disappearance- which they claimed  was an abduction, the police have a theory as to what happened and they wrote about it claiming the parents were involved in some way- the McCanns lawyer states that the McCanns are innocent according to the file- the file and the court says no the files does not say that.

There all cleared up now.

Paulo Pereira Cristovao has already been convicted of various offences in the Golden Whistle case & is serving a suspended sentence of 4.5 years. He faced further charges but apparently neither the PP nor the presiding judge were aware that the investigating officers had no jurisdiction to gather the evidence. Such is the justice system in Portugal that the PP & a Super Judge did not recognise this fact.
Meanwhile, the McCanns have neither previous convictions nor do they face any charges related to the theory promoted by Amaral - because no crime, least of all the one pursued by his team, has been verified.

Your response has adequately demonstrated why the McCanns should succeed in the ECHR, since you appear to believe that even a convicted person has a right to good reputation against circumstantial allegations - see A v Norway.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Paulo Pereira Cristovao has already been convicted of various offences in the Golden Whistle case & is serving a suspended sentence of 4.5 years. He faced further charges but apparently neither the PP nor the presiding judge were aware that the investigating officers had no jurisdiction to gather the evidence. Such is the justice system in Portugal that the PP & a Super Judge did not recognise this fact.
Meanwhile, the McCanns have neither previous convictions nor do they face any charges related to the theory promoted by Amaral - because no crime, least of all the one pursued by his team, has been verified.

Your response has adequately demonstrated why the McCanns should succeed in the ECHR, since you appear to believe that even a convicted person has a right to good reputation against circumstantial allegations - see A v Norway.

The first part of your pragraph has NOTHING to do the Maddie, secondly yuo never said he was arrested for ALLEDGEDLY  armed robbery, yet you complain about the same being done to the McCanns, I find this quite stragne if I ma honest. his criminal record has nothing to do with the search for Maddie, the court is entitled to make its descisions wether they be right or wrong- again nothing to to with the search for Maddie or justice for Maddie- this is in my honest opinion a spiteful,vindictive thread to mud sling at the PJ and theit portuguese court system all because they didn't play nice to Kate n Gerry.

Regarding your last paragraph. I made no such a claim that  the McCanns or anyone has a right to a good name- I was mearly pointing out your very obvious bias in claiming  a 'right' for one person/s and denying that same equal right to another.

It is ok if you mis read or missunderstood, many readers get the gist.

[misty]

The first part of your pragraph has NOTHING to do the Maddie, secondly yuo never said he was arrested for ALLEDGEDLY  armed robbery, yet you complain about the same being done to the McCanns, I find this quite stragne if I ma honest. his criminal record has nothing to do with the search for Maddie, the court is entitled to make its descisions wether they be right or wrong- again nothing to to with the search for Maddie or justice for Maddie- this is in my honest opinion a spiteful,vindictive thread to mud sling at the PJ and theit portuguese court system all because they didn't play nice to Kate n Gerry.

Regarding your last paragraph. I made no such a claim that  the McCanns or anyone has a right to a good name- I was mearly pointing out your very obvious bias in claiming  a 'right' for one person/s and denying that same equal right to another.

It is ok if you mis read or missunderstood, many readers get the gist.

You cannot see a connection between two ex PJ officers with criminal convictions, friends in a personal as well as a professional capacity, each writing a book about the McCanns disposing of their daughter's cadaver?
You cannot see a connection between one of those two men facing kidnapping charges & Madeleine's disappearance?
You cannot see a connection  between those 2 men gracing TV studio sofas & writing newspaper articles all about Madeleine's "guilty parents" & Madeleine's disappearance?

Meanwhile, they walk free & speak unaccountably about the guilt of the McCanns whilst counting the substantial proceeds from the very freedom granted by the same justice system they were once paid to serve.
Disgusting IMO.

[Brietta]

Topic please ... Paulo Pereira Cristovao