Other High Profile Cases and Persons of Interest > The murder of landscape architect Joanna Yeates in Bristol in December 2010.

Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?

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[...]:
I was wondering how close we could get to determing the possible earliest time of Joanna Yeates untimely death with the information that we are aware of....

If we start with Tesco's..

(1): 8:40 pm she is leaving Tesco's

(2): 8:45 pm She is seen at The Hophouse pub

(3): 8:50 pm gets her to Canygne Road and chats with Priest

(4): 8:55 pm she enters Flat 1

(5): 9:00 pm she takes off her coat and puts shopping in kitchen

(6): 9:05 pm she got to bedroom to change her clothes to The Patterned Pink Top and Blue Jeans

(7): 9:10 pm she puts the pizza in the oven...

There are other questions here.... did she have make up on when she was found ?? did she wear make up to work ?? The image I have attached looks like there is a make up bag on the toilet cistern...

The Defence says:
--- Quote --- Defence Counsel: Look at our timeline chart again. No 76. Jo Yeates did not get back to
her flat until 8.37 or thereabouts.
--- End quote ---
That is a completely Inaccurate Statement!!

This is why we need to glean what we can from what we know.... Instead of what we have been programmed to believe...

Lack of stomach contents doesn't indicate time of death, and we were persuaded that her last meal was indeed cheesy chips.... Was there any material that was tested to show that chessy chips were left in Joanna Yeates stomach ??

Her alcohol levels were consistant with having drunk 2 pints of cider... But when did she drink the alcohol.... And surely the "Stomach" contents would have been tested and "Cider" would have been present in the results...

But we don't get an accurate description of what was exactly in Joanna Yeates stomach... To determine anything.. But we are given just enough information for us to picture what could have taken Place and at what time "This" must have been...

You have 2 possible answers with the "Cider".... if she didn't have "Cider" in her stomach contents then she drank something else... If she had emptied her bladder she was "Killed a lot later"... If the type of Alcohol couldn't be established surely the fact that "Apples" are what "Cider is made of would have shown up on any test that was done on her stomach contents... (IMO).

I'll go back to number (2):... If we had seen the CCTV from the Caffe Nero.. we would have an even more accurate time of when she got to 'The Hophouse Pub"... I only say that it's.. 8:45pm because of the timestamp of the supposed people following her.... There is NO Time Stamp again on the image of Joanna Yeates passing "The Hopwood Pub'... so it's possible that it was later....

We have the media story about these people... But Colin Port himself states that the images are grainy and useless... (Not in those exact words)... at the leveson inquiry... Colin Port knew that the CCTV from "The Hophouse Pub" was useless at identifying even Joanna Yeates"... But it was brought to court as evidence that she indeed passed the bottom of King's Road at a certain Time... The only accurate CCTV is "The Caffe Nero" CCTV on Regent Street as she walks directly passed it with a woman and child behind her....

The woman and child do not appear on "The  Hophouse Pub".. CCTV and if they are directley behind her they should at least come into focus... (IMO)...

Again we have used the Media to create a Time Line that May Not be true (IMO)....

We know that her Parents Identify her body.... We understand, But we really needed Greg Reardon to do this, because he would have know what clothing she had last been seen wearing when he last saw her on Friday 17th December 2010

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8056.msg406480#msg406480

If we have managed to get to 9:10 pm at this point... doesn't that also indicate that Dr Vincent Tabak could not have killed Joanna Yeates..??

Somewhere I posted about the prosecution saying that Dr Vincent Tabak had Joanna Yeates in his Flat for about 1 hour before he goes to Asda...

And the defence has him leaving or at ASDA at 10:13 pm
--- Quote ---Defence Counsel: Look at our timeline chart again. No 76. Jo Yeates did not get back to
her flat until 8.37 or thereabouts. Timeline 39- you ultimately went to Asda at approx
10.13 pm.
--- End quote ---

There has to be proof that Dr Vincent Tabak was in his Flat for 1 hour before he went to ASDA... Remember the 1300 page Document contains not only "Searches" but... Landline Calls.. Texts.. Emails.. Phone calls of the 4 people from the basement Flats...

Which would leave Dr Vincent Tabak 3 minutes to not only "Kill", Joanna Yeates... but to carry her body to various locations in the flat and his, then get her in the bicycle cover/bag, collect his car and put her in the "Boot"...

That is Impossible by anyones standards" (IMO)...

--- Quote ---There were apparent blood stains on her flower patterned pink top but no signs of injuries to her genitalia, Dr Delaney said.
--- End quote ---

And the image of her coming out of the Toilet at "The Ram" shows her in a Plain Top.. Again The "Time Stamp" is missing... But Not The date..... WHY?

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killer-weeps-over-images-of-joanna-yeates-body-2370602.html

[...]:
Journey Home Part 1.............


By trying to establish time earliest time of death using the information given, I have plotted Joanna Yeates Journey home...

I'll start with the info on the Berkeley....


--- Quote ---Some, including the Berkley Wetherspoons pub, said police had looked at their videos, but not found any images of Jo. One bar manager, who did not want to be named, said: “Police had told us they were going to check all the shops and bars on her route home.
--- End quote ---

So if there are "NO" images of her going past the Berkely... Joanna Yeates had to take a different route to get to "Little Waitrose"....

First image:... Is Journey from Park Street to Little Waitrose....

The only time I really can go from is the times "Tesco's" video"... so keeping that in mind I shall carry on with her Journey home....
Image Two... This is The IMPORTANT ROUTE..... She goes past "Caffe Nero' in the opposite direction to what we believe she did.... she has too.... because of the order in which she shops... And The woman and child behind her..To her destination of TESCO"S....



--- Quote ---411111: The investigation team reported on the full movements of Ms
Yeates as seen on CCTV from the Ram Public House to the last sighting at
the Hop House CCTV. They commented that a woman and child were visible
behind Ms Yeates on the Cafe Nero footage but by the time she was seen on
the Hop House camera, Ms Yeates was ahead of the adult and child,
--- End quote ---


(1): Image Journey from Park Street to 'Little Waitrose"

(2): Image Journey From Little Waitrose to "Nero cafe"

(3): Image Journey From "Nero Cafe to Tesco's

(4): Image Journey Tesco's to "Bargain Booze

(5): Image Journey Journey Home

By the time Joanna Yeates has gone into Tesco Express..."The Woman And Child " have carried on with their journey and are no longer visible to Joanna Yeates.... Because 'Tesco" Express is the only CCTV we have with a Time Stamp... we know from that information , she is in Tesco's till 8:40 pm....


--- Quote ---but by the time she was seen onthe Hop House camera, Ms Yeates was ahead of the adult and child,
--- End quote ---
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As she comes out of "Tesco's"... "The ADULT" And Child"... are In Front of her... Joanna Yeates may be walking briskly.. Or 'The Adult And Child may have become stationary on the Pavement... But we can see from what "Colin Port Isn't trying to say:..... That she actually has to "PASS" 'The  ADULT" and Child"... when her next appearance is going past "The Hophouse PUB... (IMO)...


I think they are correct in their order of shops... we have all just decided that because it is direct that she must have done "Bargain Booze".. before Tesco.... (IMO)...



--- Quote ---The reconstruction will be filmed on Thursday.
It will track 'Jo' leaving the Ram pub at 8pm before stopping at a Waitrose, Tesco and Bargain Booze (now called Baryah's) before heading home to her flat in Clifton.
--- End quote ---


So on to image 5.... She come out of "Bargain Booze"..... walks past "Tesco's again... but this is in the direction of home... And this journey can take up to 10 mins plus..... (IMO)

So her arrival at "HOME" has to be later than 8:45 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-may-have-frozen-to-death-after-271727

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347905/Joanna-Yeates-final-journey-filmed-Crimewatch-reconstruction.html





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[...]:
Journey home ..Part 2....

So now I believe I have established a more likely route home.... The  timings now become very different... That's why I wanted to start with what we have known from the "Tesco's CCTv.. That she leaves Tesco's at 8:40pm..

This is the only Time Stamp in all of the CCTV's that we have been made aware of....

So her Journey will start from Tesco's....

* Tesco's .... 8:40 pm

* Bargain Booze... 8 42pm...

She has to be in "Bargain Booze for at least 5 mins... and my reasoning for this is because she gets one bottle of cider , then looks at her phone... which her mother said in a "Documentary".. because her mother expressed how it made her smile when she went back to get the other bottle of cider... Then she needs to go to the counter and pay...
One thing we don't consider is did she get served straight away???? Or was there another customer before her??? We don't know??? But I'll stay with her being served straight after she has got the second bottle of Cider.. for now...

* Leaves "Bargain Booze at 8:47 pm

Journey from Bargain Booze home...  10 mins to Canygne square walking ....

* Reaches Canygne Square at 8:57 pm

Then she is a couple of mins if that to Canygne Road.... This is where The Priest meets her in the street... If they pass pleasantaries.. that would be another couple of minutes..

*Canygne Road 8:59 pm

After talking to the priest for two minutes we could gauge....

 she reached her front door at 9:02pm


That makes a huge difference already....  because of the time that is left for Dr Vincent Tabak to commit this crime...

She then needs to take off her coat... put shopping in Kitchen... Put her "Rusksack" on dining room Table..Open a bottle of cider..... Take Pizza out of packaging and put in the oven...

* To do these actions will take time... 5 mins roughly

This will now bring us to:9:07 pm She has to put the TV on..  be next in the kitchen.. Where she can see Dr Vincent Tabak passing Kitchen window.. At what must be 9:09 pm .. when she opens the door to Dr Vincent Tabak....

I haven't at this point even added the change of  Clothes she was found wearing when discovered around Longwood Lane .. which differ from the clothes she has on in the "Ram"..!!

Where he has to take his coat off... and go into the kitchen for his 10 minutes flirty chat..... I'll stop there for a minute... Now whether we believe Dr Vincent Tabak's version of how these events played out.... He at that time on entering the flat... would have had NO IDEA.. as to what Joanna Yeates Journey home was like .. Or at what time she had arrived home... "A Vital detail..  (IMO).. So 9:09 pm has to be the earliest Dr Vincent Tabak comes into contact with Joanna yeates ... (IMO).. Because she has put things away etc....

If The Prosecution has Dr Vincent Tabak in his Fat for an hour before he went to ASDA... That means he has to be in his own flat at 9:13 pm as the Defence say he ultimatley went to Asda at 10:13 pm

That would leave Dr Vincent Tabak; Approx 4 MINUTES to Flirt.. Kill.. move from Kitchen to bedroom.. go home come back... move her to his flat... get his car off the street... put her in the boot and leave for ASDA at 10:13pm

But is that what the Defence mean when they say he Utimatley went to ASDA at 10:13pm... Is that the actual time he arrives at ASDA??? I say this ...Because he go in and out of ASDA Twice....

So if a Journey to Bedminster is around 10 mins... Dr Vincent Tabak was last in his house at 10:03pm

Lets go back a minute... If Dr Vincent Tabak is in his house for 1 hour before he goes to ASDA... then the time an hour before is .... 9:03 pm

By My Calculations.. Joanna Yeates has only just reached her home at 9:02pm... so how was it possible for Dr Vincent Tabak to kill her ???

Playing devils advocate.. If we say he saw her outside her house... dragged her into his flat killed her there .... he still would need to know where she puts her rucksack when she comes home.... Maybe pour out some beer if you want to add that... But why bother.. why not just take all her shopping and Put it in a BIN.... He could have got her keys and returned them to her flat with her belongings.. but he didn't need to take the shopping back if we believe this scenario.. And you would still need the reason for attacking her in the first place...

So if we go with what the DEFENCE Said... she let him in.. they chatted and was flirty for 10 mins... he made an advance on her... he screamed and he attacks her....

The time is not available for this (IMO)... Also all the "Screams that were heard" are before 9:00pm I think... Which would mean that she screamed in the street before actually reaching home...And Dr Vincent Tabak would not have seen her in her kitchen window ...(IMO)..

So we still haven't established the time of death... but i believe we are getting a little closer.....

If I take you back to... 9:07 pm... when her shopping is put in kitchen.. and before we think she has seen Dr Vincent Tabak... we need the time to change her clothes...say that takes 5 mins ... The earliest time that Dr Vincent Tabak could possibly see Joanna Yeates in her kitchen window is.. 9:12pm... Back to the Prosecution of Dr Vincent Tabak was in his house for 1 hour before he went to ASDA....

If he either sets of to ASDA at 10:13pm or is Actually at ASDA at 10:13 pm.... he literally cannot have come across Joanna Yeates at all..... (IMO)...







[...]:
Journey home ..Part 3



*  8:40pm Tesco's

*  8:42 pm Baragain Booze

*  8:47pm Leave Baragain Booze

*  8:57pm Reaches Canygne Square

*  8:59pm Reaches Canygne Road

*  9:02 pm Reaches front door

*  9:07 pm Shopping on counter ruskack on table

*  9:12pm Has changed her clothes ..

*  9:14pm In kitchen possibly waving  &%+((£

*  9:15 pm `opens door.. lets someone in...

Leonora:

--- Quote from: Nine.. Again on May 17, 2017, 11:09:52 AM ---I was wondering how close we could get to determing the possible earliest time of Joanna Yeates untimely death with the information that we are aware of....

If we start with Tesco's..

(1): 8:40 pm she is leaving Tesco's

(2): 8:45 pm She is seen at The Hophouse pub

(3): 8:50 pm gets her to Canygne Road and chats with Priest

(4): 8:55 pm she enters Flat 1

(5): 9:00 pm she takes off her coat and puts shopping in kitchen

(6): 9:05 pm she got to bedroom to change her clothes to The Patterned Pink Top and Blue Jeans

(7): 9:10 pm she puts the pizza in the oven...


--- End quote ---
Please don't go there, Nine.

(1) We have already established with 100 percent certainty that we do NOT know anything about Joanna's movements after she was captured inside Tesco at 8.37 p.m. - and even that CCTV, as you yourself have pointed out, may have been tampered with.

(2) We can discount the Hop House CCTV, as the person seen could be anybody.

(3) Fr Henwood told the court that he walked his dog between 8.15 p.m. and 8.30 p.m., and therefore his encounter with Joanna, if it were she, was nowhere near Canynge Road or Percival Road. He did not tell the court where he thought their paths crossed, but from what we have been told officially about her route, it must have been before she got to Bargain Booze and before she got to Tesco.

(4) You have no grounds for asserting that she got to her flat at 8.55 p.m., or at all that evening, or at all. She may have spent the night elsewhere. It is probable that she did not get back until after Vincent Tabak had an alibi. It is probable that she went back to feed the cat, unless her clothes and keys were planted in the flat by her killer. That is unlikely but it cannot be ruled out.

She could have changed her clothes, eaten the pizza, gone to the toilet, at any time during the weekend. We really do not have the facts. If Christopher Jefferies would publish his 2nd witness statement, we would know a great deal more. If the police would release the text of the Schiphol interview, we would know a great deal more. But they won't, and it is fruitless to use so much energy on speculation that cannot be verified.

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