Author Topic: Discussion about interpreter services.  (Read 27896 times)

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Offline DCI

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Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2013, 07:03:13 PM »
In her book Kate says that the translator of her statements made several mistakes when taking down her statement. These were hopefully corrected  when the statement was read back but in reality Kate would not know for certain if her answers had been recorded accurately

Exactly, so how many more made several mistakes, and were they corrected?
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Offline DCI

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Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2013, 07:05:01 PM »

Nobody was able to translate the question into English so I couldn't give an informed response as required by the regulations.

What are the chances John, of the same happening to statements made in Portugal?  >@@(*&)

Because there wasn't one professional translator used.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 07:08:51 PM by DCI »
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Offline Luz

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2013, 07:08:10 PM »
Now the "poor"  thing was wrongly translated, is that it?!

What about she did it on purpose?
That woman can speak futile things when she wants to, on TV shows.

Offline John

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2013, 07:08:52 PM »
Did you read the translation with the interpreter before signing ?

Later in Madrid I had that opportunity but the Scottish Crown Office either construed or ignored what was agreed.

I would say that there are many errors in the Portuguese statements because some words just don't translate literally.  With respect to Luz, you only need to read what she writes sometimes to see this.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 07:10:46 PM by John »
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Offline Luz

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2013, 07:09:19 PM »
Exactly, so how many more made several mistakes, and were they corrected?

How could she know? She didn't differentiate sadness from happiness in her child?!

Offline Luz

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2013, 07:16:03 PM »
Later in Madrid I had that opportunity but the Scottish Crown Office either construed or ignored what was agreed.

I would say that there are many errors in the Portuguese statements because some words just don't translate literally.  With respect to Luz, you only need to read what she writes sometimes to see this.

Any translation, to be well accomplished involves changing the words, otherwise it doesn't respect the original thought. That's why when I venture to translate directly I deform the sense when trying to be literal.
In police investigations the translators are advised to be as literal as possible and to leave the interpretation to the investigators. But inevitably it involves inaccuracies.

It happens when you are being interrogated by someone that speaks your own language, how could it not happen with a foreigner?

Offline Luz

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2013, 07:19:56 PM »
Nevertheless, the discussion about the translations is devoid of meaning since in the rogatory interrogations by Leicestershire Police, that was all they did...to check what they had said before and to correct it.

Those were, in my opinion, a JOKE. They made fools of the PJ - that's why Rebelo abandoned UK before the circus was over.

Offline DCI

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Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2013, 07:38:02 PM »
The PJ needed no help in being made fools of though, they did that all by themselves.

Rebelo abandoned UK visit because of the leaks while he was away, it was no coincidence the leak had occurred while Rebelo was in the UK interviewing witnesses in the case.

check the dates.

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Offline Carana

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2013, 07:54:05 PM »
I guess my view is a little different as I find it important to try to bear in mind the context.

It was all hands on deck on Thursday night in a village. The urgency for the GNR and later the PJ was to try to understand what had happened.

Contrary to the idea propagated that everyone in the Algarve speaks English, none of the officers present from police force seemed to have done (unless there is an exception that I can't recall at the moment).

Silvia must speak reasonable English and was no doubt trying to do her best, even if she may have sometimes misunderstood a bunch of panic-stricken Brits, some of whom have regional accents, speaking in colloquial English that aren't always easy to understand for non-native English speakers.

In the circumstances of that evening, I don't find it reasonable to expect local police forces to hire professional interpreters, nor do I find that it would have been expedient.

Concerning the initial statements at the PJ station on 4 May, as far as I recall, the PJ officers taking those statements were not those in PdL that night. If that's the case, they wouldn't have been familiar with, e.g., the layout of the apartment and is quite likely to have been taking notes or drawings as a visual aid.

From the sound of various descriptions, the station didn't initially seem to have many resources at hand.

They had to quickly find someone who could help interpret at short notice, which they did. I have no what experience this lady had. Was she a professional interpreter, translator, a private contact who could help out?

I'm sure that she was trying her best as well, but she may have faced the same language difficulties as Silvia had, with the additional disadvantage of not knowing the layout of the apartment.

Aside from the McCanns, I'm not sure who, if anyone, had interpreters recommended by the consulate. If I remember correctly, it was a lady who worked for the consulate who assisted Gerry with the interview on 10 May (I'd need to double-check). She may not have been a professionally trained interpreter either, but the consulate presumably found her language skills adequate to deal with the situation.

Amongst those that I've heard of, I'm not aware that Gaynor was a professionally-trained interpreter, although she does seem to have some translating experience. She speaks English fluently and no doubt Portuguese as well.

Robert wasn't a professionally-trained interpreter either, but he had helped out the police in the UK with issues involved Portuguese immigrants. At least that local UK police force therefore didn't automatically call a professional service, either. The version that would have had legal value would have been the Portuguese one in any case, although although, if a case had come to court, a defence lawyer could presumably have pointed out any errors in the English.

Contrary to what I initially thought, the witnesses would not have been able to read a written translation of their statements. Logistically, there was no time, nor the resources.

I'm not aware if a printed version of the statements were translated back to the witnesses word for word, or if it was a summary. There's simply no way of knowing.

When the context and the known or likely conditions are taken into account, I don't find it all surprising that there are apparent discrepancies between the initial statements and the ones taken a week later.

I'm aware that some people are convinced otherwise, but they tend to forget that these statements were not verbatim, there were communication issues and they weren't able to calmly read back a written translated statement. Just look at the written statement of Russel's rog (when the recorder didn't work). Someone was obviously taking notes so as to being able to provide a written record, but he was able to go through it line-by-line in order to clarify misunderstandings - and there weren't even any translation issues.



AnneGuedes

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Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2013, 08:22:34 PM »
Nevertheless, the discussion about the translations is devoid of meaning since in the rogatory interrogations by Leicestershire Police, that was all they did...to check what they had said before and to correct it.

Those were, in my opinion, a JOKE. They made fools of the PJ - that's why Rebelo abandoned UK before the circus was over.
There was a recording problem and the Portugueses had a return ticket.

Offline Carana

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2013, 08:39:12 PM »
Nevertheless, the discussion about the translations is devoid of meaning since in the rogatory interrogations by Leicestershire Police, that was all they did...to check what they had said before and to correct it.

Those were, in my opinion, a JOKE. They made fools of the PJ - that's why Rebelo abandoned UK before the circus was over.

Where do you get that idea from? LP asked the questions submitted by the PJ (and any submitted by the McCanns). Going through previous statements was part of the general process.

So why do you describe it as a joke?

AnneGuedes

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Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2013, 09:01:01 PM »
Perhaps because the MP hadn't requested the previous reading, by the witnesses, of their and others' first statements ?

Offline Jazzy

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2013, 09:34:35 PM »
There was a recording problem and the Portugueses had a return ticket.

So  what was the set up with the translator service you rang last night, Anne?

Offline Carana

Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2013, 10:31:47 PM »
Perhaps because the MP hadn't requested the previous reading, by the witnesses, of their and others' first statements ?

Don't you think LP and the Portuguese authorities would have discussed procedure?

The purpose was to clarify discrepancies and obtain information that hadn't been asked in the PT interviews. An example of the latter point was to establish who the phone numbers corresponded to.

A few extacts from that very long letter (on PJ letterhead, even though presumably approved by the prosecutor's office) which sets out some of the background issues, the purpose and the list of questions:

- The information gathered at the beginning with the family and friends - a GROUP made up of a total of nine adult persons - reveals some disparities and shows that it is necessary to determine with certainty the precise way these facts have occurred.



At the end of the list of questions for various witnesses, taken at random:
* Is there any supplementary explanation that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth ?

* Any further questions deemed useful, necessary or pertinent in view of the previous replies.



I don't see any tension between LP and PT expressed there, so I still don't understand Luz's insinuation.








AnneGuedes

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Re: Discussion about interpreter services.
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2013, 11:25:07 PM »
Do you think those rogatory interviews were of any help ?