UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Nora Quoirin (15) was an Irish-French teenage girl with special needs who disappeared on 4 Aug 2019 while on holiday with her parents in Malaysia. => Topic started by: John on August 12, 2019, 05:33:49 PM

Title: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: John on August 12, 2019, 05:33:49 PM
Please be advised that this topic has been given its own thread in the current news board...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10965.msg550928#msg550928
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 13, 2019, 09:58:09 PM
Please be advised that this topic has been given its own thread in the current news board...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10965.msg550928#msg550928

Unfortunately, Verti seems to have gone off the boil on this one.  Pity, as it is throwing up some curious stuff.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 13, 2019, 10:00:43 PM
Unfortunately, Verti seems to have gone off the boil on this one.  Pity, as it is throwing up some curious stuff.

The poor girl has been found dead.. I see that as tragic... Not curious
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 13, 2019, 10:04:57 PM
Unfortunately, Verti seems to have gone off the boil on this one.  Pity, as it is throwing up some curious stuff.
What the hell are you on about now?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 13, 2019, 11:08:19 PM
The poor girl has been found dead.. I see that as tragic... Not curious

She has indeed.

Under curious circumstances.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 14, 2019, 02:14:18 PM
As Verti seems to have given up posting links to this case, here is the latest effort from the Beeb.

Body found 2km away by a stream, no clothes, post mortem underway.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49330000
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 14, 2019, 02:16:57 PM
As Verti seems to have given up posting links to this case, here is the latest effort from the Beeb.

Body found 2km away by a stream, no clothes, post mortem underway.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49330000

In what way are those circumstances curious
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 14, 2019, 02:29:48 PM
In what way are those circumstances curious

2km away and no clothes are curious.  A post mortem isn't.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on August 14, 2019, 02:33:41 PM
Hopefully we'll get an official police statement soon which might  address some of the oddities.

added

Only the Daily Mail -
"Medics in Malaysia say the results of a post-mortem exam on tragic teenager Nora Quoirin (left) will be revealed Thursday at the earliest, after eight hours of tests failed to establish how she had died. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7356299/Nora-Quoirin-Parents-anguish-cause-death-unknown.html
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 14, 2019, 03:05:23 PM
2km away and no clothes are curious.  A post mortem isn't.

Not at all curious... But very sad and tragic
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 14, 2019, 10:08:24 PM
Hopefully we'll get an official police statement soon which might  address some of the oddities.

added

Only the Daily Mail -
"Medics in Malaysia say the results of a post-mortem exam on tragic teenager Nora Quoirin (left) will be revealed Thursday at the earliest, after eight hours of tests failed to establish how she had died. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7356299/Nora-Quoirin-Parents-anguish-cause-death-unknown.html

I find this difficult to believe "Chief Che Zakaria said that, despite eight hours of tests, doctors could still not be sure how the 15-year-old died, and that results would be announced on Thursday at the earliest. "

Her body would have showed up something. strangulation or physically assaulted would leave tell tale marks. Interesting they think the body was moved. If we are to believe news paper reports.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 15, 2019, 01:32:09 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49355188

Cause of death is given as internal bleeding with a perforated ulcer.  Foul play is not suspected.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 02:08:46 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49355188

Cause of death is given as internal bleeding with a perforated ulcer.  Foul play is not suspected.

a perforated ulcer is extremely uncommon in a teenager ....afaiaa
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 15, 2019, 02:23:41 PM
a perforated ulcer is extremely uncommon in a teenager ....afaiaa
We used to get perforated ulcers in young pigs.  (in  the 1990s)  Some were areas of bleeding mainly in the stomach.  It was a dietary thing from memory, but it was very serious disease.  Could her condition also result in dietary abnormalities?
(https://www.pigprogress.net/PageFiles/33728/3000x2000Gastric%20Ulcers%20-%20Index%208.jpg)

That is a very severe ulcer.   

https://www.pigprogress.net/Health/Health-Tool/diseases/Gastric-ulcers/#Causes
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 02:25:18 PM
We used to get perforated ulcers in pigs.  Some were areas of bleeding mainly in the stomach.  It was a dietary thing from memory, but it was very serious disease.  Could her condition also result is dietary abnormalities?
(https://www.pigprogress.net/PageFiles/33728/3000x2000Gastric%20Ulcers%20-%20Index%208.jpg)

That is a very severe ulcer. 

https://www.pigprogress.net/Health/Health-Tool/diseases/Gastric-ulcers/#Causes

I know exactly what it is but it seems a very odd cause of death in such a young person..
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 15, 2019, 02:34:41 PM
I know exactly what it is but it seems a very odd cause of death in such a young person..

Yes, it does. However, she may have had food digestive issues.;as she does display many complex cognitions. It may well be the family will have a second independant PM when their daughter is released to them.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 15, 2019, 02:39:34 PM
a perforated ulcer is extremely uncommon in a teenager ....afaiaa

I haven't checked into it in any detail, so these are first thoughts.

The time taken to develop such an ulcer is how long?

Does a person with such an ulcer show little or no signs of ill-health until the latter stages of development?

Could Nora have developed such an ulcer shortly before her holiday, or after her disappearance, meaning it went unnoticed by her parents?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
I haven't checked into it in any detail, so these are first thoughts.

The time taken to develop such an ulcer is how long?

Does a person with such an ulcer show little or no signs of ill-health until the latter stages of development?

Could Nora have developed such an ulcer shortly before her holiday, or after her disappearance, meaning it went unnoticed by her parents?

I havent checked it in any detail either....it all sounds very strange to me. ive heard of lots of peole afsting and hunger strikes...never a burst ulcer
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 15, 2019, 03:55:51 PM
I havent checked it in any detail either....it all sounds very strange to me. ive heard of lots of peole afsting and hunger strikes...never a burst ulcer

The link below explains it well. Forget about the eating disorder diagnosis part. it is related to starving to death -basically how it can happen by starving in a short space of time.

http://www.eatingdisorderexpert.co.uk/stomachproblemsforanorexicsandbulimics.html
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 04:13:32 PM
The link below explains it well. Forget about the eating disorder diagnosis part. it is related to starving to death -basically how it can happen by starving in a short space of time.

http://www.eatingdisorderexpert.co.uk/stomachproblemsforanorexicsandbulimics.html

Your link is for anorexic and bullimics... No indication of either of those... They are long term conditions and damage is long term... This isn't.. It's short term. Just doesn't seem right... And why are the mentioning stress
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 15, 2019, 04:27:55 PM
Your link is for anorexic and bullimics... No indication of either of those... They are long term conditions and damage is long term... This isn't.. It's short term. Just doesn't seem right... And why are the mentioning stress

Davel, I specifically said to ignore the  diagnosis of AN and Bulimia! I am not insunuating this is a reason.

It describes the affects on the stomach of starving and losing weight at  speed.

 "the effects of malnutrition including a weakening of the stomach muscles, ulcers, and stomach “


and this

"often lose a great amount of weight in a short amount of time, leaving them at least 15% below a weight that would be considered healthy for their age and height. This weight loss leaves them with little body fat, but it can also reduce general muscle mass and tone as well, including a weakening of the stomach muscles and possible damage to the nerves which signal the stomach to digest and pass food. If this occurs there can be delays in how efficiently the stomach empties when food is introduced. This situation is often referred to as delayed stomach emptying or gastroparesis."


It would be very strange indeed if this child was not suffering from stress in its most severe form, I would imagine! Being lost in a jungle- foreign country...
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 04:32:31 PM
Davel, I specifically said to ignore the  diagnosis of AN and Bulimia! I am not insunuating this is a reason.

It describes the affects on the stomach of starving and losing weight at  speed.

 "the effects of malnutrition including a weakening of the stomach muscles, ulcers, and stomach “


and this

"often lose a great amount of weight in a short amount of time, leaving them at least 15% below a weight that would be considered healthy for their age and height. This weight loss leaves them with little body fat, but it can also reduce general muscle mass and tone as well, including a weakening of the stomach muscles and possible damage to the nerves which signal the stomach to digest and pass food. If this occurs there can be delays in how efficiently the stomach empties when food is introduced. This situation is often referred to as delayed stomach emptying or gastroparesis."


It would be very strange indeed if this child was not suffering from stress in its most severe form, I would imagine! Being lost in a jungle- foreign country...

The article you quoted describes damage over a period of time.. Not several days.. They seem to be blaming stress as a contributing factor to the ulcer... Again it doesn't add up.

There will probably be another autopsy to get to the truth
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 15, 2019, 04:37:36 PM
Your link is for anorexic and bullimics... No indication of either of those... They are long term conditions and damage is long term... This isn't.. It's short term. Just doesn't seem right... And why are the mentioning stress

Some reporter or other came up with a line from the Mayo clinic that stress can cause an ulcer to burst.

First, one needs to get an ulcer!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 15, 2019, 04:40:10 PM
The article you quoted describes damage over a period of time.. Not several days.. They seem to be blaming stress as a contributing factor to the ulcer... Again it doesn't add up.

There will probably be another autopsy to get to the truth

The French have opened up a criminal investigation case, because the father is French this is a normal proceedure. (not against the father I may add)

I lost the bloody cite.  Its in yahoo/huff post. I will retrieve it later.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 04:42:04 PM
Some reporter or other came up with a line from the Mayo clinic that stress can cause an ulcer to burst.

First, one needs to get an ulcer!

Im not sure if there's a lot of truth in that... But again that would be a longstanding ulcer... The ulcer has to eat through the lining... That takes time not days
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 15, 2019, 04:49:57 PM
Im not sure if there's a lot of truth in that... But again that would be a longstanding ulcer... The ulcer has to eat through the lining... That takes time not days

Hmmm yeah, we don't have access to her medical records regarding any prescribed drugs which may have caused a stomach ulcer over a period of time.  She was a poor wee soul. It is hard to believe she survived in that jungle all that time without  being bitten/attacked by animals.

The police have been criticized for using the mums voice to call out to her daughter. I think that was a fantastic idea,especially as she had been exposed to terror in that jungle. Hearing her mums voice if she were alive and wandering,she  would have been able to call out  for help.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
Hmmm yeah, we don't have access to her medical records regarding any prescribed drugs which may have caused a stomach ulcer over a period of time.  She was a poor wee soul. It is hard to believe she survived in that jungle all that time without  being bitten/attacked by animals.

The police have been criticized for using the mums voice to call out to her daughter. I think that was a fantastic idea,especially as she had been exposed to terror in that jungle. Hearing her mums voice if she were alive and wandering,she  would have been able to call out  for help.

It's hard to believe if she was alive she wasn't found... On this case I'm a sceptic

I've heard of several autopsies where the first is completely contradicted by the second
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 15, 2019, 08:25:17 PM
The article you quoted describes damage over a period of time.. Not several days.. They seem to be blaming stress as a contributing factor to the ulcer... Again it doesn't add up.

There will probably be another autopsy to get to the truth
What about a low grade ulcer already present, then starvation making it acutely worse?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 08:30:05 PM
What about a low grade ulcer already present, then starvation making it acutely worse?

why would a young person her age have  a low grade ulcer...it all seems a little far fetched to me and the signs are the family arent happy with the explanation.....why would a young girl go for a walk in the forest at night ....where are her clothes...why was she found naked... we will have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2019, 08:50:13 PM
why would a young person her age have  a low grade ulcer...it all seems a little far fetched to me and the signs are the family arent happy with the explanation.....why would a young girl go for a walk in the forest at night ....where are her clothes...why was she found naked... we will have to wait and see.
You’d have to question the abilities of the tracker dogs too.  Bloody useless in this case it would seem.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 15, 2019, 08:51:15 PM
why would a young person her age have  a low grade ulcer...it all seems a little far fetched to me and the signs are the family arent happy with the explanation.....why would a young girl go for a walk in the forest at night ....where are her clothes...why was she found naked... we will have to wait and see.
Pigs used to get ulcerations I saw a lot in the 1990's.  OK it didn't seem as common in the more recent times, and it was an unknown cause then too.  Was this better husbandry?
The girl had some underlying issue. 

"She was described by her family as vulnerable having been born with holoprosencephaly, a disorder which affects brain development." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49355188

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2019, 08:54:32 PM
Pigs used to get ulcerations I saw a lot in the 1990's.  OK it didn't seem as common in the more recent times, and it was an unknown cause then too.  Was this better husbandry?
The girl had some underlying issue. 

"She was described by her family as vulnerable having been born with holoprosencephaly, a disorder which affects brain development." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49355188

It doesnt seem right to me...you seem to want to make the police findings fit...they may or may not...but It just doesnt seem right to me.


What happened to....when a child disppears it susually the parents who are responsible and should be looked at first.....its what sceptics repeatedly say
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 15, 2019, 09:05:35 PM
It doesnt seem right to me...you seem to want to make the police findings fit...they may or may not...but It just doesnt seem right to me.


What happened to....when a child disppears it susually the parents who are responsible and should be looked at first.....its what sceptics repeatedly say
If on autopsy there was massive bleeding from the ulcer her body would have been very pale too. The pigs basically bled to death from their ulcers.  I had noticed in pigs a definite correlation between pallor of the carcass and the size of the ulcer.  There was never any signs of frank blood in the stomach.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 15, 2019, 09:16:15 PM
You’d have to question the abilities of the tracker dogs too.  Bloody useless in this case it would seem.

I'm not sure one would.

If one knew about tracker dogs, and how to beat them.

But it will take more information to emerge before a judgement can be made.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 15, 2019, 09:28:16 PM
Holoprosencephaly  can be rather a nasty condition.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 10:02:09 PM
I am reserving any sort of judgement on this until much later down the line.

We are led to believe Nora was found barefooted so will be interesting to know what the pathologist had to say about the soles of her feet.

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2019, 10:05:28 PM
I am reserving any sort of judgement on this until much later down the line.

We are led to believe Nora was found barefooted so will be interesting to know what the pathologist had to say about the soles of her feet.
A week in the jungle and her body would have been scratched and bitten and covered in leeches, especially if she was unclothed.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 10:15:52 PM
A week in the jungle and her body would have been scratched and bitten and covered in leeches, especially if she was unclothed.

Especially given her mother claims her medi condition meant her coordination was poor ie the potential for stumbling and falling.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 16, 2019, 07:17:53 PM
Especially given her mother claims her medi condition meant her coordination was poor ie the potential for stumbling and falling.
are you suggesting the Malaysian police are mistaken
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 16, 2019, 07:25:45 PM
I am reserving any sort of judgement on this until much later down the line.

We are led to believe Nora was found barefooted so will be interesting to know what the pathologist had to say about the soles of her feet.
I had just read she was found naked.  Did she start off naked?  So if not, where are her clothes?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 06:30:31 AM
It seems the parents have appointed a spokesman and believe that Nora was abducted whilst the local police say no evidence of abduction
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 07:08:53 AM
It seems the parents have appointed a spokesman and believe that Nora was abducted whilst the local police say no evidence of abduction

Believing something happened doesn't mean it did. The Malaysian police quite correctly looked for evidence and so far have found none.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 07:13:54 AM
Believing something happened doesn't mean it did. The Malaysian police quite correctly looked for evidence and so far have found none.

Perhaps they didn't look hard enough
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 07:14:19 AM
Believing something happened doesn't mean it did. The Malaysian police quite correctly looked for evidence and so far have found none.
Funny old world isn’t it, where a sceptic who accepts nothing, believes noone and wants confirmation of everything blithely accepts and believes the words of a foreign police force without question.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 07:17:18 AM
Believing something happened doesn't mean it did. The Malaysian police quite correctly looked for evidence and so far have found none.

Let's see how good your judgement is... I'm sure there is more to this than the police realise... Thete is evidence... And it doesn't add up. Why are you unable to see that
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 07:18:53 AM
This has similarities to the McCann case. I think it's clear that the parents would like to say more but fear upsetting the Malaysian authorities
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 07:21:58 AM
This has similarities to the McCann case. I think it's clear that the parents would like to say more but fear upsetting the Malaysian authorities
Things could certainly turn nasty for them if they did.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 07:48:49 AM
Funny old world isn’t it, where a sceptic who accepts nothing, believes noone and wants confirmation of everything blithely accepts and believes the words of a foreign police force without question.

The fact that you included the word "foreign" in your reply is revealing. Would you believe them if they were British?

I didn't say I believed them, by the way. I pointed out that the family is relying on belief, but the police rely on evidence. If they can't find any that's it, the case won't progress.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 07:55:34 AM
The fact that you included the word "foreign" in your reply is revealing. Would you believe them if they were British?

I didn't say I believed them, by the way. I pointed out that the family is relying on belief, but the police rely on evidence. If they can't find any that's it, the case won't progress.
Unless their is proof then it is still only a belief based on the evidence... The families belief is also based on evidence.
First thete needs to be a second post mortem as the initial one seems suspect
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 07:57:56 AM
The fact that you included the word "foreign" in your reply is revealing. Would you believe them if they were British?

I didn't say I believed them, by the way. I pointed out that the family is relying on belief, but the police rely on evidence. If they can't find any that's it, the case won't progress.
It is revealing because the constant theme we get on these boards from sceptics is that by comparion to British police forces, foreign police forces are beyond reproach simply it seems for being foreign, like any criticism of them can be dismissed as zenophobia (sic).  That’s why I deliberately included the word.  You obviously trust the Malay police’s reading of the evidence, the Quoirin family apparently do not.  Who do you trust?  No one surely?!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 08:33:28 AM
It is revealing because the constant theme we get on these boards from sceptics is that by comparion to British police forces, foreign police forces are beyond reproach simply it seems for being foreign, like any criticism of them can be dismissed as zenophobia (sic).  That’s why I deliberately included the word.  You obviously trust the Malay police’s reading of the evidence, the Quoirin family apparently do not.  Who do you trust?  No one surely?!

I find it hard to believe that your understanding of other's post is really as poor as it seems. I can only assume, therefore that it's a deliberate ploy. No-one to my knowledge has ever indicated that foreign police forces are beyond reproach simply for being foreign.

Indeed I don't trust what people say. I trust facts and so far they are few.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on August 17, 2019, 08:36:00 AM
Unless their is proof then it is still only a belief based on the evidence... The families belief is also based on evidence.
First thete needs to be a second post mortem as the initial one seems suspect


How so, a report yesterday had a Irish representative at it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 08:50:47 AM

How so, a report yesterday had a Irish representative at it.

you need to look a little closer...an irish policeman perhaps,,...
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 17, 2019, 10:46:22 AM
are you suggesting the Malaysian police are mistaken

I don't have enough info to suggest anything.  I do not know which country Nora's body will be returned to: England, France or Ireland but I wonder if the family might request a second post-mortem?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 10:50:47 AM
I don't have enough info to suggest anything.  I do not know which country Nora's body will be returned to: England, France or Ireland but I wonder if the family might request a second post-mortem?

I understand the family have already suggested it. At the moment they have to be very careful not to upset the Malaysian authorities. I think we know enough to understand there may be more to this case than woke and wandered
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 06:43:48 PM
I find it hard to believe that your understanding of other's post is really as poor as it seems. I can only assume, therefore that it's a deliberate ploy. No-one to my knowledge has ever indicated that foreign police forces are beyond reproach simply for being foreign.

Indeed I don't trust what people say. I trust facts and so far they are few.
No one has said it but that is how it appears.  If I criticize a foreign police force some sceptic will be along in a minute to claim that the British police are at least as bad or far worse and that my criticism is disgracefully xenophobic.  It happens with great regularity, perhaps it is you with the comprehension issues.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens
Foreign police saying no foul play and ortopsy showing death by natural causes..
Family claiming abduction... And an open window
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 07:08:20 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens
Foreign police saying no foul play and ortopsy showing death by natural causes..
Family claiming abduction... And an open window

I don't see what can happen. They can't force the Malaysian police to believe them.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 07:11:59 PM
I don't see what can happen. They can't force the Malaysian police to believe them.
There is plenty that can happen, do you think the matter has been resolved satisfactorily?  Surely you have some doubts, some questions, some things you consider odd or strange?  The police have not closed the case and there is still a hotline for information in place. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 07:12:19 PM
I don't see what can happen. They can't force the Malaysian police to believe them.

would depend on the results of the familys independent ortopsy for one........you need to think outside the box
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on August 17, 2019, 07:37:03 PM
would depend on the results of the familys independent ortopsy for one........you need to think outside the box


If, indeed, one takes place.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 17, 2019, 08:27:24 PM
would depend on the results of the familys independent ortopsy for one........you need to think outside the box
Don't they spell autopsy as ortopsy and not autopsy these days?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 09:45:51 PM
Don't they spell autopsy as ortopsy and not autopsy these days?

they do...i looked at it and knew something was wrong...as I said im slightly dyslexic...but so was Einstein so Im in good company
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 10:28:39 PM
they do...i looked at it and knew something was wrong...as I said im slightly dyslexic...but so was Einstein so Im in good company

Ah, but he was a genius.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 17, 2019, 10:30:27 PM
Ah, but he was a genius.

so its an accepted fact that a highly intelligent person can be dyslexic
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 11:03:32 PM
so its an accepted fact that a highly intelligent person can be dyslexic

You seem obsessed with intelligence. I'm just watching someone I find extremely intelligent; Billy Connolly. Intelligence is found in all sorts of people and is lacking in all sorts of people too.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 11:19:31 PM
You seem obsessed with intelligence. I'm just watching someone I find extremely intelligent; Billy Connolly. Intelligence is found in all sorts of people and is lacking in all sorts of people too.
How profound.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2019, 06:40:39 PM
This has similarities to the McCann case. I think it's clear that the parents would like to say more but fear upsetting the Malaysian authorities


I am  more inclined to think they  do not want to claim abduction in case they are proved wrong. Nóra has been found and there are certainly many questions to be answered.

I can't imagine her body being bought to the UK she is not a UK citizen.




Thank you Rob for taking this off  thread with mindless,banal chat.  Perhaps as with forum rules, you will delete appropriatly?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 20, 2019, 06:44:46 PM

I am  more inclined to think they  do not want to claim abduction in case they are proved wrong. Nóra has been found and there are certainly many questions to be answered.

I can't imagine her body being bought to the UK she is not a UK citizen.




Thank you Rob for taking this off  thread with mindless,banal chat.  Perhaps as with forum rules, you will delete appropriatly?

She may well return to Ireland or France. I think there is more to come from this and I find the autopsy result strange
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2019, 06:48:08 PM
She may well return to Ireland or France. I think there is more to come from this and I find the autopsy result strange

I agree the information is very difficult to make sense of. She may have died of starvation, I accept that, but there are too many other things that do not add up. So stating she only died of starvation and no other marks ,is strange indeed. I also find it interesting reports about where her body was found.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2019, 06:48:51 PM
I read something very puzzling in the paper today and that is that there is a question mark over exactly where she was found.  Couldn’t make head nor tail of the report tbh.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 20, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
I agree the information is very difficult to make sense of. She may have died of starvation, I accept that, but there are too many other things that do not add up. So sating she only died of starvatin and no other marks is strange indeed. I also find it interesting reports about where her body was found.

its possible to go for a couple of weeks without food
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2019, 07:09:37 PM
I read something very puzzling in the paper today and that is that there is a question mark over exactly where she was found.  Couldn’t make head nor tail of the report tbh.

Yes, same here, difficult to get acurate info.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 20, 2019, 08:54:50 PM

I am  more inclined to think they  do not want to claim abduction in case they are proved wrong. Nóra has been found and there are certainly many questions to be answered.

I can't imagine her body being bought to the UK she is not a UK citizen.




Thank you Rob for taking this off  thread with mindless,banal chat.  Perhaps as with forum rules, you will delete appropriatly?
I'll do an ortopsy first.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 20, 2019, 09:19:23 PM
I'll do an ortopsy first.

I wonder how long that will keep your little brain going
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2019, 02:33:21 AM
I wonder how long that will keep your little brain going
Did you work it out?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2019, 07:22:35 PM
its possible to go for a couple of weeks without food

Yes it is, but what about water. According to her parents she didn't have the capacity to feed herself or know how to  source water and drink it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 21, 2019, 07:42:06 PM
Yes it is, but what about water. According to her parents she didn't have the capacity to feed herself or know how to  source water and drink it.

That's where location comes into play.

Reports suggest she was near a stream and a waterfall.  If she was, she had access to water.  If she wasn't, those reports are highly suspect.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 21, 2019, 07:45:28 PM
Yes it is, but what about water. According to her parents she didn't have the capacity to feed herself or know how to  source water and drink it.

I think water is no longer than around 3 to 4 days... So she must have drank water
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2019, 08:04:50 PM
That's where location comes into play.

Reports suggest she was near a stream and a waterfall.  If she was, she had access to water.  If she wasn't, those reports are highly suspect.

Indeed I agree SIL. How long was she at the waterfall and having access to drink it? Location- again in an inacessible place, and that area having been checked already 'alledgedly'.

I am confused why British police are involved with the investigation- None of them are British.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 09:34:23 AM
Has Nora's body been repatriated?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 09:38:24 AM
Has Nora's body been repatriated?

I dont think it has. From what I can see the parents are not sure what to do next.
another PM in malaysia or bring her home and another PM in UK. The problem is the admissibility of evidence from a PM in the UK
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 10:00:48 AM
I dont think it has. From what I can see the parents are not sure what to do next.
another PM in malaysia or bring her home and another PM in UK. The problem is the admissibility of evidence from a PM in the UK

A diplomatic problem I guess.  If a PM is carried out elsewhere and contradicts initial pm where's the evidence that the first pm isn't capable of being challenged?

Is it possible a pathologist from elsewhere could carry out a pm in Malaysia?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 10:04:43 AM
A diplomatic problem I guess.  If a PM is carried out elsewhere and contradicts initial pm where's the evidence that the first pm isn't capable of being challenged?

Is it possible a pathologist from elsewhere could carry out a pm in Malaysia?

a PM will find clinical signs that can be photographed...histology that can be photographed....dna evidence...lots of things taht can be recorded/ It then becomes more than opinion. for instance...what was the state of her feet...were they compatible to 9 days or so walking in the jungle
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 10:32:15 AM
a PM will find clinical signs that can be photographed...histology that can be photographed....dna evidence...lots of things taht can be recorded/ It then becomes more than opinion. for instance...what was the state of her feet...were they compatible to 9 days or so walking in the jungle

Yes but there's nothing like witnessing the body first hand at pm.  At Bamber's trial the Home Office pathologist who carried out the pm's, Dr Vanezis, was called to give evidence.  The defence called pathologist Prof Bernard Knight but it was made clear to jurors he was somewhat at a disadvantage as he did not actually witness the bodies.  Instead he had to rely on pm images and the reports.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 10:48:31 AM
I dont think it has. From what I can see the parents are not sure what to do next.
another PM in malaysia or bring her home and another PM in UK. The problem is the admissibility of evidence from a PM in the UK

Where are you getting your info from about the parents not being sure what to do next?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 10:53:35 AM
Yes but there's nothing like witnessing the body first hand at pm.  At Bamber's trial the Home Office pathologist who carried out the pm's, Dr Vanezis, was called to give evidence.  The defence called pathologist Prof Bernard Knight but it was made clear to jurors he was somewhat at a disadvantage as he did not actually witness the bodies.  Instead he had to rely on pm images and the reports.

Im talking about a second pathologist doing a second post mortem...photographs of her feet would show their condition...dna evidence...histology...is solid evidence that can be produced at  a later date
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 11:19:39 AM
Im talking about a second pathologist doing a second post mortem...photographs of her feet would show their condition...dna evidence...histology...is solid evidence that can be produced at  a later date

So where would suggest a second pathologist to perform a second post mortem is drawn from?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 11:29:54 AM
So where would suggest a second pathologist to perform a second post mortem is drawn from?
It's not me it's the parents... They have a right to ask fir a second in Malaysia but I think from what I've read they would prefer a european... French or british
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 11:33:08 AM
It seems the police used shaman in a two hour ceremony to ask the spirits for help... But of course we can't criticise another countries police force
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: John on August 22, 2019, 11:33:53 AM
I dont think it has. From what I can see the parents are not sure what to do next.
another PM in malaysia or bring her home and another PM in UK. The problem is the admissibility of evidence from a PM in the UK

I might be wrong but I understood that a post mortem is undertaken as a matter of policy when a British citizen is returned to the UK following a sudden or suspicious death abroad?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 11:35:51 AM
I might be wrong but I understood that a post mortem is undertaken as a matter of policy when a British citizen is returned to the UK following a sudden or suspicious death abroad?

Could well be
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 11:41:22 AM
I'm not really getting starvation as its possible to go for much longer without food and survive.  Staying hydrated is different. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 11:54:35 AM
I'm not really getting starvation as its possible to go for much longer without food and survive.  Staying hydrated is different.

If she drank from a stream she would quite likely get food poisoning... And die from dehydration... That's not what the PM found however

So where did she find drinking water
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 12:08:38 PM
If she drank from a stream she would quite likely get food poisoning... And die from dehydration... That's not what the PM found however

So where did she find drinking water

Yes I agree if she drank from an unpurified source but based on what I've read about her learning difficulties I am not sure she would have the wherewithal to seek out water from any source. 

I'm very sceptical about all of it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2019, 01:08:23 PM
It seems the police used shaman in a two hour ceremony to ask the spirits for help... But of course we can't criticise another countries police force
Who actually found her?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2019, 01:19:41 PM
It seems the police used shaman in a two hour ceremony to ask the spirits for help... But of course we can't criticise another countries police force

We don't know if they got involved with the blessing of the police or not, do we?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
We don't know if they got involved with the blessing of the police or not, do we?

why so defensive
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2019, 01:41:01 PM
why so defensive

Why so accusatory?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 01:44:49 PM
Why so accusatory?

im reporting what has been reported
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 01:46:17 PM
im reporting what has been reported

But then when asked for links you just say 'Google it'. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 01:53:49 PM
But then when asked for links you just say 'Google it'.

I cant provide links to every article i have read....its easy to google to find information...i also did not claim any fact....just from what I can see
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 01:58:57 PM
I cant provide links to every article i have read....its easy to google to find information...i also did not claim any fact....just from what I can see

Please just provide one then.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 02:05:44 PM
Please just provide one then.
I don't see why you cannot Google it yourself
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 02:08:03 PM
I don't see why you cannot Google it yourself

Maybe I'm getting you mixed up with another but I thought you were keen on providing cites?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 02:08:48 PM
Maybe I'm getting you mixed up with another but I thought you were keen on providing cites?

I provide lots.. Some don't
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 02:20:24 PM
I provide lots.. Some don't

Davel are you able to link me to a newspaper article please re your claims? 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 02:31:47 PM
Davel are you able to link me to a newspaper article please re your claims?

Davel I'm beginning to think the unthinkable...are these claims you are referring to from The Sun?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2019, 02:32:43 PM
Davel are you able to link me to a newspaper article please re your claims?

yes but I cant be bothered
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
yes but I cant be bothered

oh I see  %#&%4%
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2019, 05:31:51 PM
This seemed like the crucial decision:  "Over the weekend it was revealed the search radius in southern Negeri Sembilan state will be reduced from 12km to 4km, so personnel can concentrate on a more focused area.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/12/malaysian-shaman-called-nora-quoirin-search-says-lured-genie-10558586/?ito=cbshare

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2019, 07:28:41 PM
This seemed like the crucial decision:  "Over the weekend it was revealed the search radius in southern Negeri Sembilan state will be reduced from 12km to 4km, so personnel can concentrate on a more focused area.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/12/malaysian-shaman-called-nora-quoirin-search-says-lured-genie-10558586/?ito=cbshare
Even a radius of 4 km  covers quite a lot of area and if it is jungle that makes it even harder to search, for how do you keep track of where you've searched.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on August 28, 2019, 08:50:28 AM
For those following this case, this site might be of interest -

https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/27/nora-quoirin-why-the-abduction-theory-makes-no-sense-and-why-its-time-to-talk-about-what-really-happened/
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2019, 09:44:42 AM
For those following this case, this site might be of interest -

https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/27/nora-quoirin-why-the-abduction-theory-makes-no-sense-and-why-its-time-to-talk-about-what-really-happened/

So there was a downstairs bedroom. Is that where she slept I wonder. Given Nora's problems I wondered if she was on medication and wondered why her family never mentioned the fact. Gastrointestinal problems are associated with her condition.
https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/16/the-critical-detail-in-the-nora-quoirin-case-that-everyone-is-missing/
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2019, 09:53:35 AM
For those following this case, this site might be of interest -

https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/27/nora-quoirin-why-the-abduction-theory-makes-no-sense-and-why-its-time-to-talk-about-what-really-happened/
What really happened then?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on August 28, 2019, 10:00:23 AM
What really happened then?

Rather like the McCann case, nobody knows as yet.  Just facts, theories and suppositions.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2019, 10:07:00 AM
Rather like the McCann case, nobody knows as yet.  Just facts, theories and suppositions.
That website you linked to seems to claim to know what really happened and invites people to talk about it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on August 28, 2019, 10:09:02 AM
That website you linked to seems to claim to know what really happened and invites people to talk about it.

Their claim, not mine.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2019, 11:24:57 AM
Their claim, not mine.
Sorry, I thought you were recommending it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 28, 2019, 06:29:45 PM
Sorry, I thought you were recommending it.
I find Nick van der Leek's style of writing awkward to read.  I'm surprised he is well read author.  Maybe the problem is mine!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2019, 06:54:18 PM
I find Nick van der Leek's style of writing awkward to read.  I'm surprised he is well read author.  Maybe the problem is mine!
Is he one of those armchair detective cum self-published author cum [ censored word ]s that proliferate the internet? 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2019, 11:29:09 AM
So there was a downstairs bedroom. Is that where she slept I wonder. Given Nora's problems I wondered if she was on medication and wondered why her family never mentioned the fact. Gastrointestinal problems are associated with her condition.
https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/16/the-critical-detail-in-the-nora-quoirin-case-that-everyone-is-missing/


Thank ypou for this Jassi and G.

We were talking about this last week at work:

  from a poster @ https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/16/the-critical-detail-in-the-nora-quoirin-case-that-everyone-is-missing/


"proton pump inhibitors. stops stomach acid production. I’ve taken omeprazole for a low grade ulcer and gastritis. If you need it, it’s not a good idea to stop taking it abruptly. "
Julie W
AUGUST 17, 2019 AT 5:13 PM
Well I think it might explain the internal bleeding referred to in the pm as being caused by hunger and stress. Which sounded a bit odd. If you need these your stomach acid is causing inflammation in your stomach lining or gastro intestinal tract. This risks very bad inflammation or ulcers that can then lead to a GI bleed which is a medical emergency. If you need them and abruptly stop taking them your stomach acid is going to be pumping out and further damaging the area that was already at risk. Sadly it is also painful and makes you feel very sick.


It has all gone a bit quiet on the newsfront?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2019, 01:10:12 PM

Thank ypou for this Jassi and G.

We were talking about this last week at work:

  from a poster @ https://crimerocket2.com/2019/08/16/the-critical-detail-in-the-nora-quoirin-case-that-everyone-is-missing/


"proton pump inhibitors. stops stomach acid production. I’ve taken omeprazole for a low grade ulcer and gastritis. If you need it, it’s not a good idea to stop taking it abruptly. "
Julie W
AUGUST 17, 2019 AT 5:13 PM
Well I think it might explain the internal bleeding referred to in the pm as being caused by hunger and stress. Which sounded a bit odd. If you need these your stomach acid is causing inflammation in your stomach lining or gastro intestinal tract. This risks very bad inflammation or ulcers that can then lead to a GI bleed which is a medical emergency. If you need them and abruptly stop taking them your stomach acid is going to be pumping out and further damaging the area that was already at risk. Sadly it is also painful and makes you feel very sick.


It has all gone a bit quiet on the newsfront?

Apparently the family have left for an unknown destination and funeral arrangements are underway.
https://extra.ie/2019/08/29/news/irish-news/nora-quoirin-funeral
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2019, 09:17:35 PM
Apparently the family have left for an unknown destination and funeral arrangements are underway.
https://extra.ie/2019/08/29/news/irish-news/nora-quoirin-funeral

Hmm strange they have not announced an independant  autopsy being carried out OR the results.  I understand they will want privacy at this very sad time,but believing she was abducted they would want to highlight this surely.

Before anyone asks or tells me what I think.  I do not know what happened, I wasn't there. I don't hate the parents and I don't think they murdered their daughter.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 17, 2019, 07:04:42 PM
Parents of Nora Quoirin say there was a ‘criminal element’ in daughter’s death
UK News | Published: Less than an hour ago


Police in Malaysia said they found no evidence of abduction or kidnapping.

The parents of a teenager found dead in a Malaysian jungle while on a family holiday say they believe there was a “criminal element” involved in the death of their daughter.

Speaking publicly for the first time since the death, Meabh and Sebastian Quoirin say they want “truth and justice” for their daughter Nora, who was found dead after a 10-day search around the Malaysian jungle resort of Dusun in August.

In the exclusive interview with Ireland’s state broadcaster RTE, Ms Quoirin said that she has many questions about her 15-year-old daughter’s death.

However, police in Malaysia said they found no evidence of abduction or kidnapping.

Ms Quoirin said during Tuesday’s interview, that it would have been “impossible physically mentally to imagine that she could have got any distance at all”.

“For us something very complex happened,” she added.

“We have insisted from the beginning that we believe there was a criminal element to what happened.

“And crucially we’re struggling because it was difficult to get resources in place fast enough to investigate a criminal angle.

“While a post mortem when it comes through may give us answers, and has already given us some basic answers around what caused Nora’s death, it doesn’t explain any of how she could possibly have got to where she was found.”

A post-mortem examination revealed Nora died from internal bleeding probably caused by hunger and stress.

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/uk-news/2019/12/17/parents-of-nora-quoirin-say-there-was-a-criminal-element-in-daughters-death/
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 17, 2019, 08:25:45 PM
I wonder if Nora’s parents’ insistence that Their daughter was the victim of crime will be met with the same level of ridicule and abuse as the McCanns?  I certainly hope not, and that they get the answers they seek.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
I wonder if Nora’s parents’ insistence that Their daughter was the victim of crime will be met with the same level of ridicule and abuse as the McCanns?  I certainly hope not, and that they get the answers they seek.

I don't think anyone seriously believes that Nora's parents dunnit, so no, they're not likely to be ridiculed & abused in the same way as the McCanns.

However, I do think it was rather foolish of them, taking their severely mentally handicapped daughter to a bleedin jungle. She'd have been much safer in PDL IMO.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 17, 2019, 08:49:14 PM
I don't think anyone seriously believes that Nora's parents dunnit, so no, they're not likely to be ridiculed & abused in the same way as the McCanns.

However, I do think it was rather foolish of them, taking their severely mentally handicapped daughter to a bleedin jungle. She'd have been much safer in PDL IMO.
She was not “severely mentally handicapped” and it was a luxury resort, not a tent in the forest.  Apart from that I’m sure your criticism was perfectly justified. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
She was not “severely mentally handicapped” and it was a luxury resort, not a tent in the forest.  Apart from that I’m sure your criticism was perfectly justified.

Her family said she wasn't independent & didn't go anywhere alone.
She had learning disabilities, couldn't speak or coordinate properly.
Couldn't make or receive phone calls or wash her hair.

Sounds severely mentally handicapped to me.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on December 17, 2019, 09:07:43 PM
Guardians says -  "The body of the 15-year-old, who had severe learning difficulties, was discovered less than two miles from an eco-holiday resort where her family had been staying."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/17/nora-quoirin-family-dismiss-unhelpful-speculation-over-death
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 17, 2019, 09:30:45 PM
Guardians says -  "The body of the 15-year-old, who had severe learning difficulties, was discovered less than two miles from an eco-holiday resort where her family had been staying."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/17/nora-quoirin-family-dismiss-unhelpful-speculation-over-death

I am bemused.  What are members suggesting here?  Is it the expectation that the obviously much loved Nora should have been treated as sub-human and deprived of the enjoyment of a holiday in the company of her family?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on December 17, 2019, 09:35:06 PM
I am bemused.  What are members suggesting here?  Is it the expectation that the obviously much loved Nora should have been treated as sub-human and deprived of the enjoyment of a holiday in the company of her family?

What a weird interpretation of a factual statement.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 17, 2019, 09:52:22 PM
What a weird interpretation of a factual statement.

Don't you think this is a weird statement ??

"However, I do think it was rather foolish of them, taking their severely mentally handicapped daughter to a bleedin jungle. She'd have been much safer in PDL IMO."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10966.msg565782#msg565782

If not ... can you explain why you agree that Nora should not have been taken on a luxury holiday with her family?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 10:03:09 PM
Don't you think this is a weird statement ??

"However, I do think it was rather foolish of them, taking their severely mentally handicapped daughter to a bleedin jungle. She'd have been much safer in PDL IMO."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10966.msg565782#msg565782

If not ... can you explain why you agree that Nora should not have been taken on a luxury holiday with her family?

The jungle is full of dangerous stuff like spiders & snakes & waterfalls & stuff.

What's wrong with Butlins?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 17, 2019, 10:08:53 PM
The jungle is full of dangerous stuff like spiders & snakes & waterfalls & stuff.

What's wrong with Butlins?

Why do you advocate that people with disabilities should be unlawfully discriminated against.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 10:10:02 PM
Why do you advocate that people with disabilities should be unlawfully discriminated against.

I'm just being realistic, the jungle is clearly no place for the handicapped.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 17, 2019, 10:12:27 PM
Her family said she wasn't independent & didn't go anywhere alone.
She had learning disabilities, couldn't speak or coordinate properly.
Couldn't make or receive phone calls or wash her hair.

Sounds severely mentally handicapped to me.
So you concur with her parents that there is no way she would have left the apartment alone to go wandering in the jungle? 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 10:18:48 PM
So you concur with her parents that there is no way she would have left the apartment alone to go wandering in the jungle?

Nope, I think she was slightly more able than her parents might have imagined.

I think she has woken up before her parents, gone looking for that waterfall she was excited about seeing, she got lost & died of exposure/starvation.

It's either that or some abductor has come along & taken her away for no apparent reason, then changed their mind & left her.

I know which scenario seems more likely to me.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 17, 2019, 10:26:50 PM
I'm just being realistic, the jungle is clearly no place for the handicapped.
 
You obviously haven't bothered to check out the reviews on the internet.

Nor I suspect have you bothered to check out the link provided by Jassie from which she omitted the really important information released by Nora's parents.

Snip
On Saturday, the family issued a statement via the Lucie Blackman Trust – a charity that supports British nationals in crisis overseas – saying: “The family of Nora Quoirin would like to clarify several comments that have been attributed to the family or to people claiming to act on behalf of the family.

“They wish it to be made absolutely clear that the only comments and statements relating to the disappearance, death, investigation and any other matters that are actually from the family are those released via Matthew Searle of the Lucie Blackman Trust.”

It added: “Any other comments and views are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect the views of the immediate family or an accurate portrayal of the facts.”

It continued: “Nora’s family are concerned that continued reporting of comments such as those recently reported are unhelpful and may hinder any investigations, as well as causing confusion and distress for them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/17/nora-quoirin-family-dismiss-unhelpful-speculation-over-death
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 17, 2019, 10:37:50 PM
Nope, I think she was slightly more able than her parents might have imagined.

I think she has woken up before her parents, gone looking for that waterfall she was excited about seeing, she got lost & died of exposure/starvation.

It's either that or some abductor has come along & taken her away for no apparent reason, then changed their mind & left her.

I know which scenario seems more likely to me.
So she wasn’t severely mentally handicapped then.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 10:39:22 PM
So she wasn’t severely mentally handicapped then.

You've got to have something wrong to go wandering half naked & barefoot through a jungle imo
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: misty on December 17, 2019, 10:47:59 PM
You've got to have something wrong to go wandering half naked & barefoot through a jungle imo

Tarzan did precisely that. He's a hero to many children (and a few adults).
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 17, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJ-TGWRBhN4ISn0GUwBOge4--V0CMm8Dgerwgq84W1t7HtuXkE&s)

(https://rileklah.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/images/2019/08/15/node-4063/The-Dusun-Seremban-Malaysia-Travel-Mermaid-59-1024x768.jpg?itok=CRpSSbey)

Despite the tragedy which befell Nora and her family ... in my opinion and having read the holiday reviews which no doubt her parents did before booking it ... the holiday destination with all its sensory stimulation was in my opinion an ideal holiday destination which Nora's parents chose with care taking her needs into consideration.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 17, 2019, 10:57:03 PM
You've got to have something wrong to go wandering half naked & barefoot through a jungle imo
It must be comforting to the parents to know that there are complete strangers out there who knew their daughter so well, who knew what she was capable of, and who knew what was best for her. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 17, 2019, 11:39:02 PM
It must be comforting to the parents to know that there are complete strangers out there who knew their daughter so well, who knew what she was capable of, and who knew what was best for her.

Do you think it likely her parents are reading this?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 17, 2019, 11:42:07 PM
Do you think it likely her parents are reading this?
You’re just one of thousands of know-it-alls on the net, I’m sure they’re aware of the judgmental, critical comments.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 12:26:09 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJ-TGWRBhN4ISn0GUwBOge4--V0CMm8Dgerwgq84W1t7HtuXkE&s)

(https://rileklah.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/images/2019/08/15/node-4063/The-Dusun-Seremban-Malaysia-Travel-Mermaid-59-1024x768.jpg?itok=CRpSSbey)

Despite the tragedy which befell Nora and her family ... in my opinion and having read the holiday reviews which no doubt her parents did before booking it ... the holiday destination with all its sensory stimulation was in my opinion an ideal holiday destination which Nora's parents chose with care taking her needs into consideration.

Perhaps a bit too much sensory stimulation.
Hence the reason she went exploring on her own.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 12:28:08 AM
You’re just one of thousands of know-it-alls on the net, I’m sure they’re aware of the judgmental, critical comments.

Maybe I'm wrong & the police will catch her abductor.
But I wouldn't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 07:32:50 AM
Maybe I'm wrong & the police will catch her abductor.
But I wouldn't hold your breath.
I won’t.  For that to happen the Malaysian police would have to play ball and frankly I wouldn’t hold out any hope whatsoever of that happening. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 08:41:35 AM
I won’t.  For that to happen the Malaysian police would have to play ball and frankly I wouldn’t hold out any hope whatsoever of that happening.

So you seriously believe she was abducted do you?

For what purpose?  Just to take her for a walk around the jungle?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 09:03:15 AM
So you seriously believe she was abducted do you?

For what purpose?  Just to take her for a walk around the jungle?
I don’t know if she was abducted or not.  Her parents seem to think so.  A walk around the jungle?    Perhaps she was taken with the intention of holding her for ransom, or to be abused, or to be used in witchcraft, or to punish the tourists, there are other reasons apart from “a walk in the jungle”. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 11:33:25 AM
I don’t know if she was abducted or not.  Her parents seem to think so.  A walk around the jungle?   Perhaps she was taken with the intention of holding her for ransom, or to be abused, or to be used in witchcraft, or to punish the tourists, there are other reasons apart from “a walk in the jungle”.

I think Nora's parents find it more comforting to believe in a criminal element as oppose to accepting they may have failed her by way of taking her to a dangerous area & not preventing her from wandering off.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 11:53:06 AM
I think Nora's parents find it more comforting to believe in a criminal element as oppose to accepting they may have failed her by way of taking her to a dangerous area & not preventing her from wandering off.
You also think that a "severely mentally handicapped" half naked, barefoot 15 year old who "can't even brush her own hair" was able to survive independently in rugged jungle terrain for over a week AND managed to find her own way to the waterfall.  I'm not really very impressed by what you think tbh. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 11:59:46 AM
You also think that a "severely mentally handicapped" half naked, barefoot 15 year old who "can't even brush her own hair" was able to survive independently in rugged jungle terrain for over a week AND managed to find her own way to the waterfall.  I'm not really very impressed by what you think tbh.


Given the fact that the autopsy found no abuse or foul play, her wandering off & starving to death is the most likely scenario.
It's either that or the waterfall guides/child abductors took her away & gave her a stomach ulcer.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 11:59:52 AM
On what planet is it more comforting to believe that your child was stolen by strangers than simply wandered off by herself?  In both cases you would blame yourself for not being there for your child to protect her -  the thought of your child being violated by malevolent human beings is surely as horrific to contemplate as any other scenario?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
On what planet is it more comforting to believe that your child was stolen by strangers than simply wandered off by herself?  In both cases you would blame yourself for not being there for your child to protect her -  the thought of your child being violated by malevolent human beings is surely as horrific to contemplate as any other scenario?

It's absolves them of responsibility if they believe & claim the waterfall guides/child abductors took her.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:06:28 PM
You also think that a "severely mentally handicapped" half naked, barefoot 15 year old who "can't even brush her own hair" was able to survive independently in rugged jungle terrain for over a week AND managed to find her own way to the waterfall.  I'm not really very impressed by what you think tbh.
In fairness, and I know almost nothing about this case and don't intend to learn, but being found 1.6 miles from the base, in a clear state of malnourishment, I doubt foul play is a factor. Water is not a problem in the jungle, neither is food, but it's obviously alive with all sorts of harmful shit, any of which she may have come in to contact with.
I'd expect a fully cognisant adult to last weeks in the jungle if they don't have an accident, receive a toxic bite or eat some poisonous shit.
A vulnerable, mentally impaired, semi-clad child? Days.

*edit: depending on the time of day, walk 10 metres in to the primary jungle and you could find any lights shining externally will probably not be visible.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 12:09:46 PM
It's absolves them of responsibility if they believe & claim the waterfall guides/child abductors took her.
They are absolved of all responsibility whatever happened.  I don't see anyone attempting to charge them with anything do you?  What crime have they committed in your opinion?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on December 18, 2019, 12:12:13 PM
They are absolved of all responsibility whatever happened.  I don't see anyone attempting to charge them with anything do you?  What crime have they committed in your opinion?

Of course they aren't.
They had a responsibility of care.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 18, 2019, 12:17:01 PM
They are absolved of all responsibility whatever happened.  I don't see anyone attempting to charge them with anything do you?  What crime have they committed in your opinion?

I'm not talking criminal responsibility.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 12:17:57 PM
In fairness, and I know almost nothing about this case and don't intend to learn, but being found 1.6 miles from the base, in a clear state of malnourishment, I doubt foul play is a factor. Water is not a problem in the jungle, neither is food, but it's obviously alive with all sorts of harmful shit, any of which she may have come in to contact with.
I'd expect a fully cognisant adult to last weeks in the jungle if they don't have an accident, receive a toxic bite or eat some poisonous shit.
A vulnerable, mentally impaired, semi-clad child? Days.
According to her parents Nora had serious coordination problems and was wholly dependent on her family, yet she managed to survive more than a week in hostile terrain, in a jungle crawling with spiders and snakes, in thick vegetation, steep hills too.  It seems from reports that her body was not badly marked despite her week long exposure to insects, animals, vegetation, etc.  She also managed to get herself to the waterfall - this a girl who according to Spam was "severely mentally handicapped".  Surely some pause for thought there, or does that all seem perfectly plausible to you?  I guess it does, but it is a matter of opinion.  From the latest report it seems that another post mortem was conducted (if I'm reading it right) so maybe that will shed more light...
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on December 18, 2019, 12:20:57 PM
In fairness, and I know almost nothing about this case and don't intend to learn, but being found 1.6 miles from the base, in a clear state of malnourishment, I doubt foul play is a factor. Water is not a problem in the jungle, neither is food, but it's obviously alive with all sorts of harmful shit, any of which she may have come in to contact with.
I'd expect a fully cognisant adult to last weeks in the jungle if they don't have an accident, receive a toxic bite or eat some poisonous shit.
A vulnerable, mentally impaired, semi-clad child? Days.

Since you do not know much about the case you will not have noticed the rough terrain footwear being worn I think without exception by those walking in the jungle paths.

Did the post mortem identify insect bites ~ scratches from vegetation ~ lacerated feet or any other signs of jungle living on Nora's body.

The fact that the lack of food in her stomach appears to be the only noteworthy conclusion is in my opinion something which raises many questions requiring satisfactory answers which satisfy Nora's parents.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 12:21:02 PM
Of course they aren't.
They had a responsibility of care.
Which IMO they acquitted perfectly well, except in the eyes of judgemental b........s on the internet.  No doubt they blame themselves anyway.  It can't be easy losing a child in such circs, and I'm sure their pain is not lessened knowing that the chattering classes are putting the boot into them somewhere in cyberspace at any given moment. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 12:22:25 PM
In fairness, and I know almost nothing about this case and don't intend to learn, but being found 1.6 miles from the base, in a clear state of malnourishment, I doubt foul play is a factor. Water is not a problem in the jungle, neither is food, but it's obviously alive with all sorts of harmful shit, any of which she may have come in to contact with.
I'd expect a fully cognisant adult to last weeks in the jungle if they don't have an accident, receive a toxic bite or eat some poisonous shit.
A vulnerable, mentally impaired, semi-clad child? Days.

*edit: depending on the time of day, walk 10 metres in to the primary jungle and you could find any lights shining externally will probably not be visible.
I would say water is a massive problem... Clean water that is. Drinking water from a stream would almost certainly cause dysentery with death in a couple of days
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:29:01 PM
I would say water is a massive problem... Clean water that is. Drinking water from a stream would almost certainly cause dysentery with death in a couple of days
Clean water is generally abundant in tropical conditions. No streams required (although you could climb upstream and check for carcasses of dead animals, etc)
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:34:27 PM
According to her parents Nora had serious coordination problems and was wholly dependent on her family, yet she managed to survive more than a week in hostile terrain, in a jungle crawling with spiders and snakes, in thick vegetation, steep hills too.  It seems from reports that her body was not badly marked despite her week long exposure to insects, animals, vegetation, etc.  She also managed to get herself to the waterfall - this a girl who according to Spam was "severely mentally handicapped".  Surely some pause for thought there, or does that all seem perfectly plausible to you?  I guess it does, but it is a matter of opinion.  From the latest report it seems that another post mortem was conducted (if I'm reading it right) so maybe that will shed more light...
4 days wasn't it? Sounds about right.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 12:38:38 PM
Clean water is generally abundant in tropical conditions. No streams required (although you could climb upstream and check for carcasses of dead animals, etc)

I understand  clean water is readily available... rainwater on leaves etc... But I doubt she would realise that and take the plentiful option... Streams

The locals can drink stream water but tourists cant
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 12:40:53 PM


Given the fact that the autopsy found no abuse or foul play, her wandering off & starving to death is the most likely scenario.
It's either that or the waterfall guides/child abductors took her away & gave her a stomach ulcer.
..depends how reliable the PM was... It sounds decidely dodgy to me
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:41:27 PM
I understand  clean water is readily available... rainwater on leaves etc... But I doubt she would realise that and take the plentiful option... Streams
Stop it now. See water drink water. I don't think she had the capacity to think any deeper than that. As you stated, rain water is on leaves, ffs. It's EVERYWHERE!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 12:44:04 PM
Stop it now. See water drink water. I don't think she had the capacity to think any deeper than that. As you stated, rain water is on leaves, ffs. It's EVERYWHERE!

See water.. Drink water... Streams ...contaminated with bacteria harmless to locals but not to tourists.
You aren't the only one to have been in a jungle
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:45:59 PM
..depends how reliable the PM was... It sounds decidely dodgy to me
Of course it does. But consider the scrutiny on the coroner from the world's press, the Malaysian PM, etc. You'd better make this the best autopsy you've ever frickin done pal!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:47:06 PM
See water.. Drink water... Streams ...contaminated with bacteria harmless to locals but not to tourists.
You aren't the only one to have been in a jungle
Nobody walks past water to find water. Not even you.

....and Rocket Pool doesn't quite count as 'the jungle'.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on December 18, 2019, 12:50:34 PM
Police to contact Nora Quoirin’s family on claims made in foreign media (Updated)
Charles Ramendran /
18 Dec 2019 / 20:22 H.

https://www.thesundaily.my/local/police-to-contact-nora-quoirin-s-family-on-claims-made-in-foreign-media-updated-HH1801292

added
  "The full post-mortem report on the teenager’s death is expected to be ready next year."
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 12:51:23 PM
Nobody walks past water to find water. Not even you.
The whole episode seems odd.... The parents certainly think so.  The PM result seems odd . I think there could be more to this than the authorities have led us to believe.  I'm keeping an open mind
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 18, 2019, 12:52:27 PM
Things can be missed in searches the first time like that body. If there was any evidence of foul play then you should know about it. They did a post mortem.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
Nobody walks past water to find water. Not even you.

....and Rocket Pool doesn't quite count as 'the jungle'.

You have no idea, where I've travelled and that's the way it will stay
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:57:57 PM
The whole episode seems odd.... The parents certainly think so.  The PM result seems odd . I think there could be more to this than the authorities have led us to believe.  I'm keeping an open mind
I am too. I've got no info apart from knowledge of the terrain (not Malaysia). There may be foul play, but it's equally likely that she wandered off, disorientated, then once under the canopy you're more or less fcked without help.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 12:59:53 PM
You have no idea, where I've travelled and that's the way it will stay
But you've just told me you've been to the jungle, so I now know that, despite your vow not to tell me.
And you've been to Rocket Pool, Wulvuramtpun.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 01:00:38 PM
I am too. I've got no info apart from knowledge of the terrain (not Malaysia). There may be foul play, but it's equally likely that she wandered off, disorientated, then once under the canopy you're more or less fcked without help.

It seems there may be the results of a second PM in the new year.  That may we'll be interesting.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on December 18, 2019, 01:02:54 PM
But you've just told me you've been to the jungle, so I now know that, despite your vow not to tell me.
And you've been to Rocket Pool, Wulvuramtpun.
Never heard of Rocket Pool and my only visit to Wolverhampton will be when they play the football team I follow
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 01:19:15 PM
4 days wasn't it? Sounds about right.
No, not 4 days.  Her body was found 10 days after going missing, and had not been in situ very long.  You do the math.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 01:25:08 PM
No, not 4 days.  Her body was found 10 days after going missing, and had not been in situ very long.  You do the math.
7 days? 8? And the post mortem is now accurate? Or just this part was measured correctly? As I said, I know nothing.
She's done very well to get to 8 / 9 days, unless she stumbled across some semblance of uninhabited infrastructure at some point.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 01:56:15 PM
7 days? 8? And the post mortem is now accurate? Or just this part was measured correctly? As I said, I know nothing.
She's done very well to get to 8 / 9 days, unless she stumbled across some semblance of uninhabited infrastructure at some point.
I believe the place where her body was found had been searched the day before and her body was not there then.  So maybe as many as 9 days yes.  A very long time for a “severely mentally handicapped “ child with co-ordination problems to survive in the jungle alone, virtually naked and barefoot.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on December 18, 2019, 02:00:12 PM
I believe the place where her body was found had been searched the day before and her body was not there then.  So maybe as many as 9 days yes.  A very long time for a “severely mentally handicapped “ child with co-ordination problems to survive in the jungle alone, virtually naked and barefoot.
Seemingly, yes. As I say, don't know any facts about the resort, proximity to infrastructure, habitation, jungle trails - don't know.
But as I stated earlier, she would succumb in days rather than weeks, but probably not of thirst.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 02:21:29 PM
Seemingly, yes. As I say, don't know any facts about the resort, proximity to infrastructure, habitation, jungle trails - don't know.
But as I stated earlier, she would succumb in days rather than weeks, but probably not of thirst.
Despite some people's certainty that the child was not a victim of anything other than "parental neglect", I would say that the matter is far from settled.  Perhaps the post mortem will give closure, or perhaps it will trigger more heartache for the parents as they try and get the Malaysian authorities to re-open the investigation. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on December 18, 2019, 02:28:07 PM
She may well be victim to more than parental neglect, but  evidence of that has yet to be demonstrated.  IMO
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 18, 2019, 02:37:12 PM
She may well be victim to more than parental neglect, but  evidence of that has yet to be demonstrated.  IMO
The fact that you go along with the "parental neglect" angle is beyond belief imo, though I don't know why I should be surprised really.  Did you used to watch over your kids all night long to make sure they didn't come to mischief?  If not, why not?  They could have climbed out of the window and plummeted to their deaths, or fallen down the stairs to their deaths, or gone into the kitchen and stabbed themselves to death with a knife.  Or stuck their fingers into a plug socket and fried themselves to death.  Or wrapped a dressing gown cord around their necks and hanged themselves. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on December 19, 2019, 10:18:02 PM
Things can be missed in searches the first time like that body. If there was any evidence of foul play then you should know about it. They did a post mortem.

Indeed. The news coming out was; they could not have missed seeing Nora as the place was almost inaccessible.

I think someone is making the claim that someone passed by that area while searching at an earlier time and Nora wasn't there. This could be very misleading.


I find the situation to be very strange, I am very inclined to believe Nora did wander off. I don't think the parents were neglectful, but they may have underestimated her abilities somewhat.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 05, 2020, 09:22:07 PM
The family are suing the resort,also it says another PM was done and results are awaited.


Nóra Quoirin’s parents file civil claim against Malaysian resort

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/n%C3%B3ra-quoirin-s-parents-file-civil-claim-against-malaysian-resort-1.4130836

The Quoirins are also still awaiting the results of a second postmortem, carried out in London.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 05, 2020, 09:25:47 PM
The family are suing the resort,also it says another PM was done and results are awaited.


Nóra Quoirin’s parents file civil claim against Malaysian resort

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/n%C3%B3ra-quoirin-s-parents-file-civil-claim-against-malaysian-resort-1.4130836

The Quoirins are also still awaiting the results of a second postmortem, carried out in London.

Cue the... This is all about money posts.... It's nothing to do with money.. Imo
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 05, 2020, 09:29:19 PM
Cue the... This is all about money posts.... It's nothing to do with money.. Imo

Strange your thought process immediately goes to it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 05, 2020, 09:32:59 PM
Strange your thought process immediately goes to it.

As I said... I can predict what some will post.. At first glance it looks that way but I'm sure it isn't.  It's about getting people in court and forcing them to answer questions...
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 08:18:58 AM
The family are suing the resort,also it says another PM was done and results are awaited.


Nóra Quoirin’s parents file civil claim against Malaysian resort

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/n%C3%B3ra-quoirin-s-parents-file-civil-claim-against-malaysian-resort-1.4130836

The Quoirins are also still awaiting the results of a second postmortem, carried out in London.

I think it's reasonable to expect locking windows, but guards, CCTV and 'safety features'? In my opinion clients could only expect those if it was common or the law required holiday compounds to have them.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2020, 09:51:13 AM
I think it's reasonable to expect locking windows, but guards, CCTV and 'safety features'? In my opinion clients could only expect those if it was common or the law required holiday compounds to have them.

The court will decide what's reasonable based on the circumstances
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 10:11:34 AM
The court will decide what's reasonable based on the circumstances

Or maybe they won't.A file has been submitted,thats it at the moment.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2020, 10:32:41 AM
Or maybe they won't.A file has been submitted,thats it at the moment.

My opinion is that the main point of this action is to get people into court where they will be under pressure to answer questions..
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 11:36:17 AM
My opinion is that the main point of this action is to get people into court where they will be under pressure to answer questions..


I think that is the most logical reason for the parents taking action.  They want answers and who could blame them.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2020, 11:57:20 AM

Anyone's fault but their own.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
Anyone's fault but their own.

To find out what had happened to their child in her last days and hours.  Not in my opinion an unreasonable thing.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 06, 2020, 12:49:04 PM
To find out what had happened to their child in her last days and hours.  Not in my opinion an unreasonable thing.

Do you think the holiday company will be party to that information ?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Do you think the holiday company will be party to that information ?

I would think the court will have the power to call other witnesses. Where the police have failed to launch a criminal enquiry then a civil case can be useful in forcing people to answer questions
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 05:37:48 PM
Anyone's fault but their own.
The parents were not at fault in any way, correct.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2020, 05:42:41 PM
The parents were not at fault in any way, correct.

Nope, obviously it was their fault, for taking her on holiday.

If they'd have stayed at home..........
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
Nope, obviously it was their fault, for taking her on holiday.

If they'd have stayed at home..........
Anything could have happened.  She could have been stolen from the bath, fallen down the stairs, been electrocuted, burnt to death, and you would have been first in the queue to blame the parents for that as well.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 05:48:32 PM
I would think the court will have the power to call other witnesses. Where the police have failed to launch a criminal enquiry then a civil case can be useful in forcing people to answer questions

I thought in Civil Cases the complainants and defendants called the witnesses. In this case the questions arising are whether the owners of the holiday compound were negligent in some way.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2020, 05:51:59 PM
I thought in Civil Cases the complainants and defendants called the witnesses. In this case the questions arising are whether the owners of the holiday compound were negligent in some way.

the complainants...the family...can call witnesses. They could use these witnesses to show in court the possibility of a criminal action
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 06:18:00 PM
the complainants...the family...can call witnesses. They could use these witnesses to show in court the possibility of a criminal action

Did anyone say it was impossible?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2020, 06:21:40 PM
Did anyone say it was impossible?

the decision by the police was natural causes and no criminal activity
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 06, 2020, 06:46:52 PM
Are witnesses obliged to appear or answer questions ?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2020, 06:56:08 PM
Are witnesses obliged to appear or answer questions ?

this is malaysia...may well be similar to the uk for that reason..

a witness is obliged to attend and has no right to silence
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 06, 2020, 08:05:26 PM
I think it's reasonable to expect locking windows, but guards, CCTV and 'safety features'? In my opinion clients could only expect those if it was common or the law required holiday compounds to have them.

This new information has saddened me some. Here we are again discussing 'broken windows, kidnapped, and the 'child' could not have wandered off.AND a blame game involving money.

It is sickening to the core.  I do not blame the family from wanting to find out what happened, but it seems they do not need to know as they have already made up their minds as to what happened. They take no blame what so ever.

I would argue; the security, if this was a priority to the family, should have been mentioned when first noticed OR should have been highlighted as a   pre condition on booking the holiday! Like perhaps asking the question- what protection do we have from the jungle animals?

"Window latch broken
The statement of claim states that, on or about March 18th, 2019, the plaintiffs booked and paid for a three-night stay at the Dusun resort from August 3rd until August 6th, 2019.

The family had intended to spend three days at the resort before travelling around Malaysia.

After travelling from overseas, Meabh and Sebastien Quoirin checked into the resort with Nóra and their two other younger children on August 3rd. After the journey “they were exhausted and went to bed”, their claim states.

The next morning, at or about 8 am, Nóra’s parents discovered she was missing and noticed that the window in the living area of the bungalow in which they were staying was ajar.

Their statement of claim alleges that the latch on the window was broken and the window could easily be opened by anyone from outside.

It is also alleged that the perimeter fencing was not secured and the entrance gate of the Dusun was kept open at all times and no security personnel were in place to guard the property.

Furthermore, it alleges that there was no closed-circuit television and no other safety facilities were installed at the resort.

It notes that Nóra was born with a medical condition known as holoprosencephaly which left her with balancing and coordination difficulties. “In addition her motor skills and core strength were very poor, and the deceased was unable to walk without the help of an adult. The mental age of the deceased at the time of death was about five or six years old only.”

Postmortems
After the postmortem on Nóra’s body, Malaysian police said on August 15th that there was no evidence of foul play. The police said the cause of death was upper gastrointestinal bleeding due to a duodenal ulcer complicated with perforation. The bleeding in Nóra’s intestine was most likely caused by prolonged hunger and stress, Negeri Sembilan police chief Mohamad Mat Yusof said.

The final results of the postmortem carried out in Malaysia, including the toxicology reports, have not yet been released.

The Quoirins are also still awaiting the results of a second postmortem, carried out in London.

Nóra’s parents have said they believe there was a criminal element in the disappearance and death of their daughter and have called on the Malaysian authorities to open an inquest.

Mr Nair says he suspects that Nóra was abducted."



says  it all. VERY similar to McCanns.

It will be interesting to read the London PM report and the response to that.

However Nóra left the holiday home, it is real strange that she 'survived' in a jungle for all that time, knowing her   cognitive mental conditions and functioning capacity as expressed by the parents.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2020, 08:22:20 PM

Anything could have happened.  She could have been stolen from the bath, fallen down the stairs, been electrocuted, burnt to death, and you would have been first in the queue to blame the parents for that as well.  That’s what you do, victim blame. 

So who's fault is it that Nora wandered off?  The Boogey Man's?

It's the owners & workers of the resort I feel sorry for,they are victims here, going to have their reputation dragged through the jungle thanks to these parents inability to accept that their daughter went for a morning safari whilst under their care.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
This new information has saddened me some. Here we are again discussing 'broken windows, kidnapped, and the 'child' could not have wandered off.AND a blame game involving money.

It is sickening to the core.  I do not blame the family from wanting to find out what happened, but it seems they do not need to know as they have already made up their minds as to what happened. They take no blame what so ever.

I would argue; the security, if this was a priority to the family, should have been mentioned when first noticed OR should have been highlighted as a   pre condition on booking the holiday! Like perhaps asking the question- what protection do we have from the jungle animals?

"Window latch broken
The statement of claim states that, on or about March 18th, 2019, the plaintiffs booked and paid for a three-night stay at the Dusun resort from August 3rd until August 6th, 2019.

The family had intended to spend three days at the resort before travelling around Malaysia.

After travelling from overseas, Meabh and Sebastien Quoirin checked into the resort with Nóra and their two other younger children on August 3rd. After the journey “they were exhausted and went to bed”, their claim states.

The next morning, at or about 8 am, Nóra’s parents discovered she was missing and noticed that the window in the living area of the bungalow in which they were staying was ajar.

Their statement of claim alleges that the latch on the window was broken and the window could easily be opened by anyone from outside.

It is also alleged that the perimeter fencing was not secured and the entrance gate of the Dusun was kept open at all times and no security personnel were in place to guard the property.

Furthermore, it alleges that there was no closed-circuit television and no other safety facilities were installed at the resort.

It notes that Nóra was born with a medical condition known as holoprosencephaly which left her with balancing and coordination difficulties. “In addition her motor skills and core strength were very poor, and the deceased was unable to walk without the help of an adult. The mental age of the deceased at the time of death was about five or six years old only.”

Postmortems
After the postmortem on Nóra’s body, Malaysian police said on August 15th that there was no evidence of foul play. The police said the cause of death was upper gastrointestinal bleeding due to a duodenal ulcer complicated with perforation. The bleeding in Nóra’s intestine was most likely caused by prolonged hunger and stress, Negeri Sembilan police chief Mohamad Mat Yusof said.

The final results of the postmortem carried out in Malaysia, including the toxicology reports, have not yet been released.

The Quoirins are also still awaiting the results of a second postmortem, carried out in London.

Nóra’s parents have said they believe there was a criminal element in the disappearance and death of their daughter and have called on the Malaysian authorities to open an inquest.

Mr Nair says he suspects that Nóra was abducted."



says  it all. VERY similar to McCanns.

It will be interesting to read the London PM report and the response to that.

However Nóra left the holiday home, it is real strange that she 'survived' in a jungle for all that time, knowing her   cognitive mental conditions and functioning capacity as expressed by the parents.


Indeed.

I wonder if the family read all the info on the resort before booking?

Did it ever claim to have CCTV & security guards?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
So who's fault is it that Nora wandered off?  The Boogey Man's?

It's the owners & workers of the resort I feel sorry for,they are victims here, going to have their reputation dragged through the jungle thanks to these parents inability to accept that their daughter went for a morning safari whilst under their care.
If Nora (who could barely walk unaided according to her family) managed to wander off into the jungle on her own then it is no one’s fault, it’s just one of those tragic events that could not have been anticipated.  Obviously you’d rather slag off the parents which makes me wonder if you have an issue with parents generally. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 06, 2020, 09:46:15 PM
If Nora (who could barely walk unaided according to her family) managed to wander off into the jungle on her own then it is no one’s fault, it’s just one of those tragic events that could not have been anticipated.  Obviously you’d rather slag off the parents which makes me wonder if you have an issue with parents generally.

(who could barely walk unaided according to her family)

It will be easy to check- did they use wheelchair for their daughter while travelling or other aids? walking stick /crutches, walking frame/with without wheels?

evidence of any of these found in the apartment or claimed to be missing?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
(who could barely walk unaided according to her family)

It will be easy to check- did they use wheelchair for their daughter while travelling or other aids? walking stick /crutches, walking frame/with without wheels?

evidence of any of these found in the apartment or claimed to be missing?

It will be interesting to see how it all works out. The resort isn't suitable for people with walking difficulties due to it's hilly location. 'Locking up' the houses wouldn't appear to be a priority as some of them are designed to be open to the breezes to keep cool, paticularly at night.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on January 06, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
If Nora (who could barely walk unaided according to her family) managed to wander off into the jungle on her own then it is no one’s fault, it’s just one of those tragic events that could not have been anticipated.  Obviously you’d rather slag off the parents which makes me wonder if you have an issue with parents generally.

I may be wrong, but I thought she was in a bedroom which was up a spiral staircase.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 11:38:24 PM
I may be wrong, but I thought she was in a bedroom which was up a spiral staircase.

Reports were unclear about that, I thought.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on January 06, 2020, 11:55:43 PM
Reports were unclear about that, I thought.

It was an early news report.  And I'm dubious about early news reports as being worthy sources of information.

Luxury resort with a bedroom up a spiral staircase?  Hmmm.   *%87

Girl with learning difficulties who manages to sneak out past her parents?  Hmmm.   *%87

Abductor who manages to spirit her away?   Hmmm.   *%87
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 07, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
I came across this promotional video for the Dunsun Resort in Malaysia. It shows the spiral staircase and how open plan the bungalows are.

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2020, 11:18:08 AM
I came across this promotional video for the Dunsun Resort in Malaysia. It shows the spiral staircase and how open plan the bungalows are.


As I understood it the parents were on the first floor and an attic room was mentioned as being where the children slept. Maybe Nora was in the ground floor bedroom?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 05:51:16 PM

Lovely looking resort, think I've found a future holiday destination. Might need to sell a kidney or two though.

The aerial footage really gives a sense of just how dense that jungle is, & I can see why someone would be eager to explore & then easily find themselves lost in there. Little wonder she wasn't found for 10 days imo.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 05:54:59 PM
I wonder why the tracker dogs were so completely useless at tracking her down. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 05:57:36 PM
I wonder why the tracker dogs were so completely useless at tracking her down.

Maybe the abductor masked her scent somehow.

Or it could just be that tracker dogs aren't 100% effective, particularly in such a dense & scent rich environment.

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 06:09:05 PM
Maybe the abductor masked her scent somehow.

Or it could just be that tracker dogs aren't 100% effective, particularly in such a dense & scent rich environment.
Why is a jungle more scent rich than a city or a forest?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
Why is a jungle more scent rich than a city or a forest?

IDK, maybe all the decomposing vegetation, the animals & creatures, the moist & muggy environment, possibly.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 06:20:45 PM
IDK, maybe all the decomposing vegetation, the animals & creatures, the moist & muggy environment, possibly.
Forests have those too, cities have millions of people, fumes, rats, fast food, rubbish -  I don’t buy it. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 07, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
It seemed to have been a strange choice of accommodation for a youngster who apparently couldn't walk unaided?  If she slept downstairs with the parents in what was effectively an open plan layout in a relatively small area, how on earth could she have been abducted?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 06:31:19 PM
It seemed to have been a strange choice of accommodation for a youngster who apparently couldn't walk unaided?  If she slept downstairs with the parents in what was effectively an open plan layout in a relatively small area, how on earth could she have been abducted?

According to the reports she was sharing a room with her siblings.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 06:32:31 PM
It seemed to have been a strange choice of accommodation for a youngster who apparently couldn't walk unaided?  If she slept downstairs with the parents in what was effectively an open plan layout in a relatively small area, how on earth could she have been abducted?
She was sleeping upstairs.  Her parents were downstairs.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 07:49:11 PM
She was sleeping upstairs.  Her parents were downstairs.
They picked the most precarious staircase in Malaysia for their disabled daughter to negotiate continually.
Stay classy guys.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 07:51:24 PM
They picked the most precarious staircase in Malaysia for their disabled daughter to negotiate continually.
Stay classy guys.

then perhaps she was less physically disabled than we ve been told....This is a typical drawing conclusions based on little evidence...or perhaps its irony
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 07:54:32 PM
then perhaps she was less physically disabled than we ve been told....This is a typical drawing conclusions based on little evidence...or perhaps its irony
You seeing in to the future again, Nostradavros?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 08:09:19 PM
You seeing in to the future again, Nostradavros?

Yes....with enough knowledge of past events its relatively easy to make predictions of future events..thts how intelligent people operate
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 08:09:29 PM
They picked the most precarious staircase in Malaysia for their disabled daughter to negotiate continually.
Stay classy guys.
Negotiate continually??  They were meant to be there for three days - did they plan to just go up and down the staircase for the duration of their trip?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 07, 2020, 08:10:06 PM
Information about her disabilities came from her family.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 08:11:40 PM
Information about her disabilities came from her family.

what exactly were those disabilities....i predict i wont get an answer general
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 07, 2020, 08:19:01 PM
One would expect her parents to have been truthful and accurate about her limitations.

If no, why not ?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 08:23:59 PM
Yes....with enough knowledge of past events its relatively easy to make predictions of future events..thts how intelligent people operate
One of them must have told you that little nugget.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 08:24:38 PM
One would expect her parents to have been truthful and accurate about her limitations.

If no, why not ?
One would expect that a child with the condition she had would have been known by many medical personnel over the years who would easily be able to confirm or refute the parents claims, so IMO it would be extremely foolish of them to lie about it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 07, 2020, 08:26:42 PM
One would expect that a child with the condition she had would have been known by many medical personnel over the years who would easily be able to confirm or refute the parents claims, so IMO it would be extremely foolish of them to lie about it.

Patient confidentiality perhaps ?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 08:28:18 PM
Patient confidentiality perhaps ?
The patient is dead, in case you hadn’t noticed.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 08:31:50 PM
One would expect her parents to have been truthful and accurate about her limitations.

If no, why not ?

again...what precisely  were the parents claims
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
MISSING teenager Nora Quoirin is so disabled, she struggles to walk or even balance and “would go nowhere alone”, her family said yesterday.

Her parents say she is virtually incapable of wandering off and believe she must have been abducted.

In a statement released by the Lucie Blackman Trust on behalf of Nora’s family, including mother Meabh and father Sebastian, they said: “She is not like other teenagers.

“She is not independent and does not go anywhere alone.”

They told how Nora, of Balham, south London, was born with holoprosencephaly, a condition which leaves her struggling to walk, balance and look after herself.

They also revealed “her verbal communication is limited” and that she “cannot write more than a few words”.

The statement added: “Nora is very sensitive. Outside the family, she is very shy and can be quite anxious.

“Every night, her special time is for cuddles and a night-time story with her mum.

“Nora was born with holoprosencephaly. This means that she has a smaller brain. All of her life, she has spent a lot of time in hospital.”

The statement added: “She has been to Asia and many European countries before and has never wandered off or got lost.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1164076/nora-quoirin-missing-search-malaysia
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 08:34:22 PM
MISSING teenager Nora Quoirin is so disabled, she struggles to walk or even balance and “would go nowhere alone”, her family said yesterday.

Her parents say she is virtually incapable of wandering off and believe she must have been abducted.

In a statement released by the Lucie Blackman Trust on behalf of Nora’s family, including mother Meabh and father Sebastian, they said: “She is not like other teenagers.

“She is not independent and does not go anywhere alone.”

They told how Nora, of Balham, south London, was born with holoprosencephaly, a condition which leaves her struggling to walk, balance and look after herself.

They also revealed “her verbal communication is limited” and that she “cannot write more than a few words”.

The statement added: “Nora is very sensitive. Outside the family, she is very shy and can be quite anxious.

“Every night, her special time is for cuddles and a night-time story with her mum.

“Nora was born with holoprosencephaly. This means that she has a smaller brain. All of her life, she has spent a lot of time in hospital.”

The statement added: “She has been to Asia and many European countries before and has never wandered off or got lost.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1164076/nora-quoirin-missing-search-malaysia
so not  a statement by her parents
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 08:34:45 PM

"All her life she has spent a lot of time in hospital. When she was born, she needed operations to help her (breathe). She has specialists that monitor her growth, her physical abilities and her strength, and especially her mental capacity," they said in a statement released by the Lucie Blackman Trust, a British charity that supports people involved in crises overseas.

"She is not like other teenagers. She is not independent and does not go anywhere alone," they said. "Nora likes to walk with her family, but her balance is limited and she struggles with coordination. She has been to Asia, and many European countries before, and has never wandered off or got lost."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/10/london-teen-missing-malaysia-isnt-independent-has-difficulty/
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 08:36:01 PM
so not  a statement by her parents

Where did the Lucy Blackman Trust get their information?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 07, 2020, 08:37:45 PM
The patient is dead, in case you hadn’t noticed.

I think it still applies.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 08:40:47 PM
I think it still applies.
yes it does, admittedly, but in a criminal investigation police can apply to see patient records.  Also, I don’t think teachers of deceased children are bound by pupil confidentiality.  And then there are friends and extended family members who may take a dim view of the parents misrepresenting their relative’s abilities.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 08:43:57 PM
Where did the Lucy Blackman Trust get their information?

So your quote wasn't from the parents..
Probably unsteady alone but fine holding someone's hand
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 07, 2020, 08:48:53 PM
One thing her parents have never said is that she could not have simply walked off on her own... Which would suggest she could
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 08:55:45 PM

Meabh said that it would have been "impossible physically, mentally to imagine that she [Nora] could have got any distance at all".

"She never even walked as far as our neighbours' front door by herself," she added.

"To think that Nora might get up in the middle of the night, naked, barefoot, get out of the bungalow into the jungle, bearing in mind the terrain is extremely steep and dangerous, in total darkness, makes absolutely no sense," he told RTÉ.

"We think it is absurd to think about this possibility."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50829844
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: carlymichelle on January 07, 2020, 08:58:06 PM
Patient confidentiality perhaps ?

or denial on the parents  part??
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 09:03:53 PM

In this interview her father confirms her bedroom was upstairs.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1217/1101725-we-want-truth-and-justice-for-nora-quoirin-family/


Full interview on RTE Player, only available for the next 9 days.

https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/quoirin-interview/121261608142
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: carlymichelle on January 07, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
as  you   guys might know i have cerebal palsy and other  things including  severe scoliosis i can  walk by myself and do stairs  but it  depends on what type of  stairs    i also cant  walk long   distances     i  wonder if  nora was limited in physical ways like  me??
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 09:13:05 PM
Meabh said that it would have been "impossible physically, mentally to imagine that she [Nora] could have got any distance at all".

"She never even walked as far as our neighbours' front door by herself," she added.

"To think that Nora might get up in the middle of the night, naked, barefoot, get out of the bungalow into the jungle, bearing in mind the terrain is extremely steep and dangerous, in total darkness, makes absolutely no sense," he told RTÉ.

"We think it is absurd to think about this possibility."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50829844


Nora's father didn't discover she was missing until 8am, therefore she wouldn't necessarily have had to left the bungalow "in the middle of the night, in total darkness",  it being August at the time it was probably light by 5:30 or 6 am imo.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 09:16:52 PM
One thing her parents have never said is that she could not have simply walked off on her own... Which would suggest she could
Yeh, it's getting old now.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2020, 09:32:56 PM

Nora's father didn't discover she was missing until 8am, therefore she wouldn't necessarily have had to left the bungalow "in the middle of the night, in total darkness",  it being August at the time it was probably light by 5:30 or 6 am imo.

You are wrong.  Time of sunrise for August 2019 averages around 7.10am.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/malaysia/seremban?month=8&year=2019
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 09:35:33 PM

Approx 40:00

'Nora wouldn't know that she needed to eat & drink to stay alive.'

https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/quoirin-interview/121261608142
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 09:39:36 PM
You are wrong.  Time of sunrise for August 2019 averages around 7.10am.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/malaysia/seremban?month=8&year=2019

Twilight would begin some time before 7:00 then, IMO it wouldn't be total darkness until 7:00.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 10:24:58 PM
Twilight would begin some time before 7:00 then, IMO it wouldn't be total darkness until 7:00.
Twilight in Malaysia is very short, around 30 minutes at most.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 10:56:35 PM
Supposing she left at first light, let's say anywhere between 6:30, 7:00. That would still give her a couple of hours head start before any search parties were organised & out IMO.

Even with some limited mobility she could still make a fair distance in that time IMO.

After that it's like looking for a needle in the jungle. She could have gone in any number of directions.

I just can't buy the criminal element theory, assuming her post mortem was accurate, no bruising, no sexual abuse & she was found lying with her head on her hands as if she were sleeping.

Whatever happened it's a tragedy & I don't believe it's the fault of the resort, however I wouldn't be surprised if the Quoirins are successful in some way with their civil suit.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 12:07:04 AM
I feel for the family, but it seems wrong that another family should suffer too by being sued. This resort is a family affair and it's purpose is to enable others to share the unique setting, the peace and the wildlife and it provides some local employment. Children under 12 yoa stay free. It's not a purely commercial venture.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2020, 01:33:24 AM
Supposing she left at first light, let's say anywhere between 6:30, 7:00. That would still give her a couple of hours head start before any search parties were organised & out IMO.

Even with some limited mobility she could still make a fair distance in that time IMO.

After that it's like looking for a needle in the jungle. She could have gone in any number of directions.

I just can't buy the criminal element theory, assuming her post mortem was accurate, no bruising, no sexual abuse & she was found lying with her head on her hands as if she were sleeping.

Whatever happened it's a tragedy & I don't believe it's the fault of the resort, however I wouldn't be surprised if the Quoirins are successful in some way with their civil suit.

Please do not "suppose" an invented time for first light, it is unnecessary to do so when the actual time has already been indicated to you.
There is no first light until sunrise which from the 1st until the 12th of August is on record as being 07:11am; from the 13th until the 20th of August sunrise was recorded at 07:10am; until by the 31st the sun rises at 07:07.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/malaysia/seremban?month=8&year=2019

When you have an accurate time available to you why introduce a time which is wrong?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 07:27:50 AM
I feel for the family, but it seems wrong that another family should suffer too by being sued. This resort is a family affair and it's purpose is to enable others to share the unique setting, the peace and the wildlife and it provides some local employment. Children under 12 yoa stay free. It's not a purely commercial venture.
It is purely a commercial venture, it exists for no other reason that I can see.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2020, 07:30:46 AM
Please do not "suppose" an invented time for first light, it is unnecessary to do so when the actual time has already been indicated to you.
There is no first light until sunrise which from the 1st until the 12th of August is on record as being 07:11am; from the 13th until the 20th of August sunrise was recorded at 07:10am; until by the 31st the sun rises at 07:07.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/malaysia/seremban?month=8&year=2019

When you have an accurate time available to you why introduce a time which is wrong?

Sunrise is at 8:04 in the UK today, it's now 7:30 & beginning to get light,  maybe things work differently in Malaysia, the sky remains bathed in pitch darkness until god turns the lights on full at precisely 7:10.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 07:32:39 AM
Sunrise is at 8:04 in the UK today, it's now 7:30 & beginning to get light,  maybe things work differently in Malaysia, the sky remains bathed in pitch darkness until god turns the lights on full at precisely 7:10.
That’s pretty much it, you’ve obviously not spent any time in the Tropics. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2020, 07:43:32 AM


You yourself said there's 30 minutes of twilight before dawn, did you not?

Are you taking that back now?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 08, 2020, 07:54:02 AM
And you do them the same courtesy of course hence knowing nothing about sunrises near the equator.
What do you want to know?
Night time in the jungle comes like that [snaps fingers]. One minute it's gloomy, then next you can't see your hand in front of your face.
Untrained, getting lost would be the first thing you would do.

Having said that, the environs of the resort would be lit up like Vegas, surely?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
What do you want to know?
Night time in the jungle comes like that [snaps fingers]. One minute it's gloomy, then next you can't see your hand in front of your face.
Untrained, getting lost would be the first thing you would do.

Having said that, the environs of the resort would be lit up like Vegas, surely?
I lived there for years but thanks for the insight.  I doubt a six house eco resort in the middle of the jungle was lit up like Vegas in the middle of the night, silly observation imo.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 08:07:11 AM
You yourself said there's 30 minutes of twilight before dawn, did you not?

Are you taking that back now?
I was erring on the generous side possibly.  It is a much shorter interval than you are used to in Britain certainly.  It certainly wouldn’t be light that would wake up a jetlagged teenager.  When I used to go home from the UK I would sleep until after lunch on my first day back.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 08, 2020, 08:15:50 AM
I lived there for years but thanks for the insight.  I doubt a six house eco resort in the middle of the jungle was lit up like Vegas in the middle of the night, silly observation imo.
I don't know much about this case, alas, but isn't it on a complex of some sort?

....just had a look on Google Maps....you're right. Dual carriageway, no street lighting - then dense jungle / undulating terrain for miles in all directions. Probably not lit very well at all.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 08:25:50 AM
I don't know much about this case, alas, but isn't it on a complex of some sort?
Before you make any further comment I suggest you google Dusun Resort.  All will be revealed.  It’s unlikeness to Las Vegas will also become apparent.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 08:50:57 AM
It is purely a commercial venture, it exists for no other reason that I can see.

What I meant was that it's no big commercial holiday provider. The parents own the land, but their children own some of the houses. No-one's getting rich in my opinion.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 09:02:46 AM
What I meant was that it's no big commercial holiday provider. The parents own the land, but their children own some of the houses. No-one's getting rich in my opinion.
No one claimed they were.  The amount of damages being sought is in proportion, compared, say with the £43 million that Ikea has just coughed up because one of its chest of drawers fell on a child causing death.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 10:00:32 AM
What I meant was that it's no big commercial holiday provider. The parents own the land, but their children own some of the houses. No-one's getting rich in my opinion.

Presumably they will be insured but as I've said I think the action is aimed at getting people into court and getting questions answered
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 08, 2020, 10:14:52 AM
Presumably they will be insured but as I've said I think the action is aimed at getting people into court and getting questions answered
Yeh but premiums. Fatality. Fuggedaboutit.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
Presumably they will be insured but as I've said I think the action is aimed at getting people into court and getting questions answered

Suing is about blame and compensation. The questions arising are whether the owners of the compound were negligent by having a broken window catch, a poorly maintained fence, an open gate, no guards and no CCTV.

Whether Nora left under her own steam or was taken by someone else, it's true that the above measures may have prevented her from going or offered clues as to how she left.

The question is whether it was reasonable to expect those things to be provided in that compound and in that country. I think it will be difficult to sustain except possibly in relation to the window lock.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 11:58:56 AM
Suing is about blame and compensation. The questions arising are whether the owners of the compound were negligent by having a broken window catch, a poorly maintained fence, an open gate, no guards and no CCTV.

Whether Nora left under her own steam or was taken by someone else, it's true that the above measures may have prevented her from going or offered clues as to how she left.

The question is whether it was reasonable to expect those things to be provided in that compound and in that country. I think it will be difficult to sustain except possibly in relation to the window lock.
I think the owners of this resort are/were supremely naive in thinking that the houses were completely secure for tourists to stay in, being as they are completely open plan, and open to the outside world with no shutters on the verandahs, etc.  It was only a matter of time before there was a burglary or worse.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 12:10:09 PM
Suing is about blame and compensation. The questions arising are whether the owners of the compound were negligent by having a broken window catch, a poorly maintained fence, an open gate, no guards and no CCTV.

Whether Nora left under her own steam or was taken by someone else, it's true that the above measures may have prevented her from going or offered clues as to how she left.

The question is whether it was reasonable to expect those things to be provided in that compound and in that country. I think it will be difficult to sustain except possibly in relation to the window lock.

Suing is not always about compensation..... In this case I think the driving force is to get answers to questions.
The parents said there were a lot of unanswered questions and this is a way of getting some answers
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Suing is not always about compensation..... In this case I think the driving force is to get answers to questions.
The parents said there were a lot of unanswered questions and this is a way of getting some answers

The fact of the matter is that suing is about blaming someone for something. If it's successful then the person is punished both reputationally and financially. It's not something that should be used for another purpose.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 12:22:08 PM
The fact of the matter is that suing is about blaming someone for something. If it's successful then the person is punished both reputationally and financially. It's not something that should be used for another purpose.
In your opinion... I think its perfectly valid when they feel the police haven't given the answers they want. It's a perfectly valid way of forcing the issue imo
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
I think the owners of this resort are/were supremely naive in thinking that the houses were completely secure for tourists to stay in, being as they are completely open plan, and open to the outside world with no shutters on the verandahs, etc.  It was only a matter of time before there was a burglary or worse.

It's perfectly clear before booking what the resort is like. In my opinion it would be completely unrealistic for anyone expecting guards and CCTV to book a stay there. 

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 01:11:29 PM
It's perfectly clear before booking what the resort is like. In my opinion it would be completely unrealistic for anyone expecting guards and CCTV to book a stay there.
It's perfectly reasonable to expect your property and family to be safe and secure in a holiday resort of any description when paying that sort of money.  Night watchmen should have been a given, they are quite common in Malaysia.  Secure gates into the resort and high perimeter fencing is also not out of the question.  IMO. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on January 08, 2020, 01:25:34 PM
It's perfectly reasonable to expect your property and family to be safe and secure in a holiday resort of any description when paying that sort of money.  Night watchmen should have been a given, they are quite common in Malaysia.  Secure gates into the resort and high perimeter fencing is also not out of the question.  IMO.

Where do you holiday?   (&^&
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 01:37:48 PM
It's perfectly reasonable to expect your property and family to be safe and secure in a holiday resort of any description when paying that sort of money.  Night watchmen should have been a given, they are quite common in Malaysia.  Secure gates into the resort and high perimeter fencing is also not out of the question.  IMO.

I think the outcome of the case will be decided by what it's reasonable to expect in Malaysia. Their country, their rules.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 01:47:36 PM
It's perfectly clear before booking what the resort is like. In my opinion it would be completely unrealistic for anyone expecting guards and CCTV to book a stay there.

Depends on the history of crime there as to what's needed
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2020, 01:51:29 PM
In your opinion... I think its perfectly valid when they feel the police haven't given the answers they want. It's a perfectly valid way of forcing the issue imo

The answer they want is that Nóra was abducted, if there isn't any evidence that happened then I fail to see how the Malaysian police can give them that answer, they're not Scotland Yard.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
Where do you holiday?   (&^&
I lived in Malaysia for many years but I suppose my opinion counts for nothing as far as you and your pathetic collection of emoticons are concerned.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
I think the outcome of the case will be decided by what it's reasonable to expect in Malaysia. Their country, their rules.
https://asklegal.my/p/bad-holiday-from-hell-malaysia-can-i-sue
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 02:04:48 PM
The answer they want is that Nóra was abducted, if there isn't any evidence that happened then I fail to see how the Malaysian police can give them that answer, they're not Scotland Yard.

What was the level of crime in the area.... That's a good first question
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
"There are a whopping 150,000 security guards in Malaysia, even more than the police force with its 112,583 officers, according to Shaheen".
https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2013/11/11/in-arming-illegal-guards-for-cheaper-security-an-insidious-price/559861
As I said, night watchmen are quite common in Malaysia and it's not unreasonable to expect one to have been on duty in such a tourist focused resort.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 02:20:53 PM
What was the level of crime in the area.... That's a good first question
It's the jungle, so very low, however there are local Orang Asli in the area who are poor folk, some of whom worked at or likely know people who work at the resort.  Wherever there are tourists there will be the potential for crimes to be committed. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
The answer they want is that Nóra was abducted, if there isn't any evidence that happened then I fail to see how the Malaysian police can give them that answer, they're not Scotland Yard.

Suing the owners of the resort won't provide the answer either imo.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2020, 02:32:25 PM
As far as I can see the Dusun resort never claimed to have security guards on duty, so I think it would be unreasonable to expect there to be.

If they wanted to stay at a resort that had security guards then perhaps they should have booked with one that listed them in their brochure.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2020, 02:33:55 PM
What was the level of crime in the area.... That's a good first question

There could have been a cartel of crack dealers living nearby, that still wouldn't prove Nora was abducted.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 02:36:13 PM
Suing the owners of the resort won't provide the answer either imo.

It may well do... We won't know until it happens
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Eleanor on January 08, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
As far as I can see the Dusun resort never claimed to have security guards on duty, so I think it would be unreasonable to expect there to be.

If they wanted to stay at a resort that had security guards then perhaps they should have booked with one that listed them in their brochure.

What a silly remark.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
As far as I can see the Dusun resort never claimed to have security guards on duty, so I think it would be unreasonable to expect there to be.

If they wanted to stay at a resort that had security guards then perhaps they should have booked with one that listed them in their brochure.
How many holiday brochures detail the security arrangements?  A good way to put people off to say the premises is patrolled by guards and CCTV!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Eleanor on January 08, 2020, 03:56:16 PM
Suing the owners of the resort won't provide the answer either imo.

The Security will have to be looked at if they do sue, among other things.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
There could have been a cartel of crack dealers living nearby, that still wouldn't prove Nora was abducted.
What a stupid remark, IMO.  No one has suggested it would prove anything.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 08, 2020, 03:59:32 PM
What a stupid remark, IMO.  No one has suggested it would prove anything.
I think Davros is suggesting a correlation between the prevailing crime rate and the likelihood of an abduction / murder.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 08, 2020, 04:05:32 PM
I think Davros is suggesting a correlation between the prevailing crime rate and the likelihood of an abduction / murder.

Simply looking at the need for security... Obviously if there is little or no crime then security doesn't have to be so tight... If there was regular petty crime it's different .that's the sortbof question the police may have been able to avoid but will have to answer if called
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 04:59:19 PM
I think Davros is suggesting a correlation between the prevailing crime rate and the likelihood of an abduction / murder.
I don’t think he is tbh
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2020, 05:06:56 PM
Simply looking at the need for security... Obviously if there is little or no crime then security doesn't have to be so tight... If there was regular petty crime it's different .that's the sortbof question the police may have been able to avoid but will have to answer if called

If there was regular petty crime at the Dusun resort, they'd have some security by now, the place has been running for 30 years.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: The General on January 08, 2020, 05:27:40 PM
If there was regular petty crime at the Dusun resort, they'd have some security by now, the place has been running for 30 years.
Monkeys. Most of the crime, I will guarantee, will be down to monkeys.
I befriended a pygmy Proboscis Monkey, who I named Terry, who eventually became my man-servant. I had to evict him forcefully from the tent as he turned out to be a very adept, duplicitous kleptomaniac.
And he was rubbish at cooking.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 08, 2020, 05:38:30 PM
Monkeys. Most of the crime, I will guarantee, will be down to monkeys.
I befriended a pygmy Proboscis Monkey, who I named Terry, who eventually became my man-servant. I had to evict him forcefully from the tent as he turned out to be a very adept, duplicitous kleptomaniac.
And he was rubbish at cooking.
There are no Proboscis monkeys in the jungle of the peninsular.  Some gibbons though.  they're nice (though they've probably been wiped out by now).
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 10, 2020, 05:53:44 PM
The police case is closed one wonders how a civil one can proceed.
Nora Quoirin death: Parents 'shocked' by decision to close case

The teenager's parents have now learned no further action is to be taken in the case. They said it would mean that no inquest would be held.

The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51065360
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 10, 2020, 06:02:57 PM
The police case is closed one wonders how a civil one can proceed.
Nora Quoirin death: Parents 'shocked' by decision to close case

The teenager's parents have now learned no further action is to be taken in the case. They said it would mean that no inquest would be held.

The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51065360
Disgraceful, but not surprising.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 10, 2020, 06:21:54 PM
Disgraceful, but not surprising.

If they don't suspect foul play why is it either of those things.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 10, 2020, 06:30:53 PM
The police case is closed one wonders how a civil one can proceed.
Nora Quoirin death: Parents 'shocked' by decision to close case

The teenager's parents have now learned no further action is to be taken in the case. They said it would mean that no inquest would be held.

The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51065360

OJ Simpson... Criminal case not guilty... Civil case... Liable

As I've said.   They can call police as witnesses and they will have to supply answers
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 10, 2020, 06:36:43 PM
OJ Simpson... Criminal case not guilty... Civil case... Liable

As I've said.   They can call police as witnesses and they will have to supply answers

You've quoted the usa,is it the same in malaysia?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 10, 2020, 06:41:55 PM
You've quoted the usa,is it the same in malaysia?

Malaysia law is very close to uk law... That's how it works in the uk.  I said from the start the civil case could be a way of getting answers... And that's what it's looking like
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 10, 2020, 06:51:15 PM
If they don't suspect foul play why is it either of those things.
Did you actually read the article?  It sounds to me like the Malaysian authorities are very keen to brush this one under the carpet. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 10, 2020, 07:23:19 PM
Did you actually read the article?  It sounds to me like the Malaysian authorities are very keen to brush this one under the carpet.

Two sides to every story we only have The Lucie Blackman Trust's opinion.,the Malaysians say, The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 10, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
Two sides to every story we only have The Lucie Blackman Trust's opinion.,the Malaysians say, The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.
Well they would say that wouldn’t they.  So when Iran’s authorities tell you that the plane was not shot down by missiles I suppose you accept that too!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 10, 2020, 07:32:58 PM
Well they would say that wouldn’t they.  So when Iran’s authorities tell you that the plane was not shot down by missiles I suppose you accept that too!


The Lucy Blackman trust said it,not the Malaysian authorities. Iraninan propaganda is as far away from this as is the moon.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 10, 2020, 07:37:28 PM
OJ Simpson... Criminal case not guilty... Civil case... Liable

As I've said.   They can call police as witnesses and they will have to supply answers

I can't see why the police would be called in a case between the family and the resort. What evidence could they give about broken window locks, open gates, security guards or CCTV?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: carlymichelle on January 10, 2020, 07:39:15 PM

The Lucy Blackman trust said it,not the Malaysian authorities. Iraninan propaganda is as far away from this as is the moon.

clearly the  Malaysian authorities  dont think  nora  was abducted  though  IMO
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2020, 07:40:02 PM
The police case is closed one wonders how a civil one can proceed.
Nora Quoirin death: Parents 'shocked' by decision to close case

The teenager's parents have now learned no further action is to be taken in the case. They said it would mean that no inquest would be held.

The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51065360

There's only so much investigating of abduction they can do, once they don't find any abduction evidence, they're not Scotland Yard.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 10, 2020, 07:40:05 PM
I can't see why the police would be called in a case between the family and the resort. What evidence could they give about broken window locks, open gates, security guards or CCTV?

They could be called about the searches... About previous crime in the area... About what they found when they arrived at the scene... Think laterally
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 10, 2020, 07:43:18 PM
So the authorities are saying no evidence of abduction... So no abduction... So posters, seem to accept that absence of evidence is evidence of absence
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: carlymichelle on January 10, 2020, 07:45:15 PM
Nora Quoirin: Family 'shocked' as case closed into teen found dead in Malaysia jungle
The 15-year-old was found naked but authorities say there was no evidence of kidnap or sexual assault.
Sharon Marris, news reporter


News reporter @JournoKiwi

Friday 10 January 2020 14:56, UK

    Malaysia

Nora Quoirin died in Malaysia during a family holiday. Her family say there are still unanswered questions as to what happened to her






The parents of a teenager who died on a family holiday in Malaysia say they are "shocked" there will be no further action in the case.

Nora Quoirin, 15, was found dead in August, 10 days after she went missing from the rainforest resort in Seremban where she was staying with her parents and siblings.

A post-mortem found she died from internal bleeding thought to have been caused by prolonged hunger and stress.

However, her family are still puzzled about why she apparently went out alone at night.
Members of Malaysian rescue team take part in a search and rescue operation for the missing 15-year-old Franco-Irish, Nora Quoirin in Seremban on August 7, 2019. - A helicopter and dozens of people were deployed August 7 on the third day of a search for a vulnerable London teenager who went missing from a Malaysian rainforest resort, police said

Nora - who had learning difficulties - was extremely sensitive and shy and "clung to her parents and sister", her grandfather has said.

The office of Malaysia's attorney general said on Friday that her death was being classified as "no further action".

Her parents, Meabh and Sebastien, said the decision "prevents justice being done".


They said: "As we have stressed from the beginning of this case, it is crucial to understand how Nora came to be found where she was.

"As a vulnerable child, with significant physical and mental challenges, we strongly refute any conclusion that Nora was alone for the entire duration of her disappearance.

"We have repeatedly asked the police to clarify answers to our questions in this regard - and we have been repeatedly ignored.

"This stands in stark contrast with the promise of transparency that we received from the deputy prime minister and other prominent officials whom we met in Malaysia."

Mr and Mrs Quoirin said the decision was based only on a preliminary report from the coroner's office and meant there would be no inquest into Nora's death.

They have not seen the full report, which they believe could reveal other details, such as why a severe ulcer was triggered so quickly in their daughter's body.
Members of a rescue team taking part in the search for Nora on Monday
Image: Nora's body was found just over a mile from where she disappeared

Nora's parents said they were appealing to "the highest levels of Malaysian government as well as the attorney general's office to assist our quest for the truth".

The teenager, who was travelling on an Irish passport but whose French-Irish parents had lived in London for 20 years, was born with a brain defect called holoprosencephaly.

Her parents said she could not write more than a few words and was unable to do maths.

Her family discovered she was missing on 4 August, when her father went into her room and found the window open.

After her body was found naked more than a mile away, authorities said there was no evidence of kidnap or sexual assault.

Matthew Searle, chief executive of the Lucie Blackman Trust, which has been helping the family, said: "It seems unbelievable that, in a case that looks so complex and currently unexplained, that any authority could effectively close it down without even waiting for full reports.

"The idea that Nora went off, on her own, seems incredibly unlikely.

"This family need answers and at least deserve an investigation to the greatest lengths available. We are urgently seeking answers from various authorities - Nora's death needs to be explained."
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 10, 2020, 07:53:02 PM
Mr and Mrs Quoirin said the decision was based only on a preliminary report from the coroner's office and meant there would be no inquest into Nora's death.


Perhaps the authorities now have the full report.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 10, 2020, 08:21:05 PM

The Lucy Blackman trust said it,not the Malaysian authorities. Iraninan propaganda is as far away from this as is the moon.
I was referring to “no further action”, and actually the Malaysian authorities have more in common with the Iranian authorities than you might think.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 10, 2020, 08:25:35 PM
Mr and Mrs Quoirin said the decision was based only on a preliminary report from the coroner's office and meant there would be no inquest into Nora's death.


Perhaps the authorities now have the full report.

It's normal to share with the family.... Makes you think they have something to hide
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 10, 2020, 08:33:40 PM
They could be called about the searches... About previous crime in the area... About what they found when they arrived at the scene... Think laterally

The case is about whether the Dusun was negligent. Previous crimes at the compound may be relevant, but not the searches or the 'crime scene' imo.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 10, 2020, 08:37:20 PM
The case is about whether the Dusun was negligent. Previous crimes at the compound may be relevant, but not the searches or the 'crime scene' imo.

If the parents claim lax security led to a criminal offence then they can...let's wait and see
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 10, 2020, 10:46:37 PM
If the parents claim lax security led to a criminal offence then they can...let's wait and see

There's no evidence of a criminal offence, so their claim is groundless.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 08:49:24 AM
There's no evidence of a criminal offence, so their claim is groundless.

There's evidence to suspect a criminal act
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 11, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
There's evidence to suspect a criminal act

It appears the Malaysian authorities aren't of that mind.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 08:55:58 AM
It appears the Malaysian authorities aren't of that mind.

Bias
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 11, 2020, 08:56:23 AM
Have the parents ever come under suspicion? 

If not why not?

If yes on what basis? 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 09:30:47 AM
Have the parents ever come under suspicion? 

If not why not?

If yes on what basis?

How would anyone here know... It's down to the Malaysian police... It's normal for parents to be suspects in these cases
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2020, 09:55:01 AM
There's evidence to suspect a criminal act

Which evidence?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 10:10:04 AM
Which evidence?

I could present all of it but would you accept it... Based on the fact you don't accept the overwhelming evidence that smoking causes cancer I doubt it
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2020, 10:15:02 AM
I could present all of it but would you accept it... Based on the fact you don't accept the overwhelming evidence that smoking causes cancer I doubt it

If you don't present it then people are entitled to conclude you have none.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 10:17:11 AM
If you don't present it then people are entitled to conclude you have none.

Be my guest. It's of no importance... Some will already realise there us... Those that don't won't change their mind
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 07:50:17 PM
Have the parents ever come under suspicion? 

If not why not?

If yes on what basis?

 Under suspicion of what crime?  what would be the motive?

Here are the issues I am thinking about:

Her physical mobility and independent functioning level, her mental capacity.
Her body was found naked- but no sexual assault- what state were her clothes in?
A reward was put up by a wealthy Northern Irish businessman.
A fund was set up- not used to offer reward.

I am not sure if the parents did harm their daughter, I do doubt it though. However, they misinterpreted their daughters mobility and abilities and failed to secure the apartment to safeguard their children. The initial responsibility for children is their parents/guardians.

Blaming and suing the resort is disgraceful and crass IMO. It smacks of blood money and shifting blame. They lost my respect.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
Under suspicion of what crime?  what would be the motive?

Here are the issues I am thinking about:

Her physical mobility and independent functioning level, her mental capacity.
Her body was found naked- but no sexual assault- what state were her clothes in?
A reward was put up by a wealthy Northern Irish businessman.
A fund was set up- not used to offer reward.

I am not sure if the parents did harm their daughter, I do doubt it though. However, they misinterpreted their daughters mobility and abilities and failed to secure the apartment to safeguard their children. The initial responsibility for children is their parents/guardians.

Blaming and suing the resort is disgraceful and crass IMO. It smacks of blood money and shifting blame. They lost my respect.

they still have my utmost respect. They have said the police have ignored them and refused to answer questions. By raising  a civil claim they can force the police to come to court and answer questions. They have had some every good legal advice
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 07:59:57 PM
they still have my utmost respect. They have said the police have ignored them and refused to answer questions. By raising  a civil claim they can force the police to come to court and answer questions. They have had some every good legal advice


erm... they are NOT suing the police. They are suing the resort on the basis of lack of security. Which will have no police input what so ever!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 08:03:15 PM

erm... they are NOT suing the police. They are suing the resort on the basis of lack of security. Which will have no police input what so ever!

you obviously dont understand....wait and see . they are suing theresort...the police will be called as witnesses and forced to answer the questions they have so far refused to answer
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
you obviously dont understand....wait and see . they are suing theresort...the police will be called as witnesses and forced to answer the questions they have so far refused to answer

Why would the police be called as witnesses?   would this be for the defendant or pursuer. and what would they be witness to?

The family may well have to provide evidence of their daughters illness.  The resort will defend, and  I am sure some things the family didn't want brought up, will be brought up.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 08:26:59 PM
Why would the police be called as witnesses?   would this be for the defendant or pursuer. and what would they be witness to?

The family may well have to provide evidence of their daughters illness.  The resort will defend, and  I am sure some things the family didn't want brought up, will be brought up.

Shall we just wait and see...I have personal experience of this ...plus

I spoke to someone this week whose son was killed. The police say it was an accident...the parents  believe he was murdered....the police are basically useless. I advised them to take out a civil claim...the burden of proof is not as high in a civil case....and those he believes murdered his son have no right to silence in a civil court...they have to answer questions


Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 08:46:54 PM
Shall we just wait and see...I have personal experience of this ...plus

I spoke to someone this week whose son was killed. The police say it was an accident...the parents  believe he was murdered....the police are basically useless. I advised them to take out a civil claim...the burden of proof is not as high in a civil case....and those he believes murdered his son have no right to silence in a civil court...they have to answer questions


You have experience of everything- according to you.

There is no right to silence however other tricks  "I CAN'T REMEMBER" "I AM NOT SURE" Etc  are allowed. Then it comes down to who the judge believes.


So in your experience, and the known outcome of your advice to friends,  what happened to the lying police officers?


It will be interesting what blame the police can have chucked at them in  this specific case.  Any Ideas?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 08:53:17 PM

You have experience of everything- according to you.

There is no right to silence however other tricks  "I CAN'T REMEMBER" "I AM NOT SURE" Etc  are allowed. Then it comes down to who the judge believes.


So in your experience, and the known outcome of your advice to friends,  what happened to the lying police officers?


It will be interesting what blame the police can have chucked at them in  this specific case.  Any Ideas?

Yes I have lots of experience and am happy to share thedetails of this case with john.. It's a very sad case

If I sue someone for damages.. If I provide evidence... And their response is.. I can't remember.. Then they lose the case
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2020, 08:57:18 PM
Perhaps in Davel land... in reality. Why would the police be called as witnesses?   would this be for the defendant or pursuer. and what would they be witness to?

The family may well have to provide evidence of their daughters illness.  The resort will defend, and  I am sure some things the family didn't want brought up, will be brought up.

If they're going to claim their daughter was incapable of leaving on her own they will definitely need to provide evidence of that. Her condition affects everyone differently. Some of those affected are so bad they can't be carried to full term in pregnancy. At the other end of the spectrum some are so lightly affected they can live a normal lifespan.



Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 11, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
If they're going to claim their daughter was incapable of leaving on her own they will definitely need to provide evidence of that. Her condition affects everyone differently. Some of those affected are so bad they can't be carried to full term in pregnancy. At the other end of the spectrum some are so lightly affected they can live a normal lifespan.

The other side to this is,did they  inform the resort of the girls difficulties and enquire if it was suitable.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 09:01:31 PM
None of this matters in the slightest... A court case will get answers to questions
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
The other side to this is,did they  inform the resort of the girls difficulties and enquire if it was suitable.

That's a very relevant question. As are any pre-booking questions about safety and security.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 09:06:28 PM
If they're going to claim their daughter was incapable of leaving on her own they will definitely need to provide evidence of that. Her condition affects everyone differently. Some of those affected are so bad they can't be carried to full term in pregnancy. At the other end of the spectrum some are so lightly affected they can live a normal lifespan.


This is very true G.  That will be the crux of the matter. what were her cognition's and on what scale.

Did they do what I did with my mum when she had her accident (fully recovered now). When traveling we always checked disabled facilities available. Access to local interests toilets etc.

"The other side to this is,did they  inform the resort of the girls difficulties and enquire if it was suitable."
The evidence will be with the travel agents- the airport videos, etc
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 09:07:24 PM
If they're going to claim their daughter was incapable of leaving on her own they will definitely need to provide evidence of that. Her condition affects everyone differently. Some of those affected are so bad they can't be carried to full term in pregnancy. At the other end of the spectrum some are so lightly affected they can live a normal lifespan.

It might be more sensible to wait and she what evidence is provided
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 09:08:46 PM
None of this matters in the slightest... A court case will get answers to questions

It matters because all of this is relevant in a court case. The family will be asked questions as well.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM

This is very true G.  That will be the crux of the matter. what were her cognition's and on what scale.

Did they do what I did with my mum when she had her accident (fully recovered now). When traveling we always checked disabled facilities available. Access to local interests toilets etc.

"The other side to this is,did they  inform the resort of the girls difficulties and enquire if it was suitable."
The evidence will be with the travel agents- the airport videos, etc

Nora's doctors, teachers, perhaps physiotherapists are the ones to testify about her capabilities.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 09:11:31 PM
It matters because all of this is relevant in a court case. The family will be asked questions as well.

I'm sure they will.. And so will the police
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 09:18:27 PM
Nora's doctors, teachers, perhaps physiotherapists are the ones to testify about her capabilities.

Yes, that will cost some. Perhaps they will 'skype' or VC to save traveling costs.

I do wonder what questions the family will have for the police,since they are not involved with her safety as per lawsuit.

They responded to the call> raised a search> found the body> arranged a PM.  What else can be added?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: carlymichelle on January 11, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
Yes, that will cost some. Perhaps they will 'skype' or VC to save traveling costs.

I do wonder what questions the family will have for the police,since they are not involved with her safety as per lawsuit.

They responded to the call> raised a search> found the body> arranged a PM.  What else can be added?

i just hope people who  blame police for everything will never  call the police if they need  them that would be hypocritical wouldnt it?? people blame police  when they are in the  wrong themselves imo
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 09:28:36 PM
i just hope people who  blame police for everything will never  call the police if they need  them that would be hypocritical wouldnt it?? people blame police  when they are in the  wrong themselves imo

In the UK for most crimes it's not worth calling the police... Your crime will not be investigated and the criminals know they can get away Scott free
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 09:31:17 PM
In the UK for most crimes it's not worth calling the police... Your crime will not be investigated and the criminals know they can get away Scott free

This is somewhat true Davel.  However ' race crime' does get a lot of attention. The' thought police' make sure of that.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 11, 2020, 09:33:34 PM
This is somewhat true Davel.  However ' race crime' does get a lot of attention. The' thought police' make sure of that.

Race crime does get attention.. And rightly so
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 11, 2020, 09:36:30 PM
Race crime does get attention.. And rightly so

I should have added SOME race crime.  Very few Asians and Black citizens get investigated.

It isn't anywhere as serious as other crimes.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2020, 11:25:14 PM
None of this matters in the slightest... A court case will get answers to questions

Yep. The questions which relate to whether the resort was negligent.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 12, 2020, 12:16:01 AM
Yep. The questions which relate to whether the resort was negligent.

It's the same old 'blame someone else for one's own shortcomings'. The parents had a duty of care to that child but failed her miserably and now they want to make themselves feel better by pointing the finger at the hotel and the police.

The part I found peculiar was that it was the father who looked after Nora while the mother was of gallivanting abroad yet he had very little to say after the child disappeared.

Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 12:19:32 AM
It's the same old 'blame someone else for one's own shortcomings'. The parents had a duty of care to that child but failed her miserably and now they want to make themselves feel better by pointing the finger at the hotel and the police.
Failed her miserably how?  By caring for her and loving her all her life and taking her on holiday?  I suppose they should have just stuck her in a home and have done with it like used to happen in the “good ol’ days”.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 12, 2020, 12:25:44 AM
Failed her miserably how?  By caring for her and loving her all her life and taking her on holiday?  I suppose they should have just stuck her in a home and have done with it like used to happen in the “good ol’ days”.

Well let's see  *%87  ...she's dead isn't she and now they want to blame someone else and collect some compo?

Beats me how any child could be abducted from such a small open-plan chalet without anyone hearing anything and given that she was supposed to have been sleeping in the same place as her two siblings. Was anyone aware of their surroundings?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 12:54:16 AM
Well let's see  *%87  ...she's dead isn't she and now they want to blame someone else and collect some compo?

Beats me how any child could be abducted from such a small open-plan chalet without anyone hearing anything and given that she was supposed to have been sleeping in the same place as her two siblings. Was anyone aware of their surroundings?
If a child dies in whatever circumstances it doesn’t always follow that their parents “failed miserably “ as you seem to suggest.  So at precisely what point did the Quorins fail Nora miserably?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 12, 2020, 01:48:41 AM
If a child dies in whatever circumstances it doesn’t always follow that their parents “failed miserably “ as you seem to suggest.  So at precisely what point did the Quorins fail Nora miserably?

Time will tell no doubt.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: carlymichelle on January 12, 2020, 02:11:31 AM
Time will tell no doubt.

imo  some  get  too emotionally involved  with these cases  thats just  IMO
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 12, 2020, 08:44:40 AM
Time will tell no doubt.

Perhaps the police failed miserably.  It will be interesting to see what the second PM reveals.  Might be better to wait for more information before jumping to conclusions.  I think the civil case is to force the police to answer questions they have so far ignored .
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
Time will tell no doubt.
No answer then.  What’s time got to do with it?  You made a statement of fact “her parents failed her miserably” so you tell us in what way precisely they did that, or do you just make a habit of blaming the parents any time a child disappears or dies?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 09:35:41 AM
imo  some  get  too emotionally involved  with these cases  thats just  IMO
yes, why are so many people so angry and judgmental about Nora’s parents?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: barrier on January 12, 2020, 09:40:38 AM
yes, why are so many people so angry and judgmental about Nora’s parents?

Nora by all accounts was vunerable because of disability's, whose responsibility would it be,of course fully realising they can't be watched 24/7.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 12, 2020, 09:45:39 AM
Nora by all accounts was vunerable because of disability's, whose responsibility would it be,of course fully realising they can't be watched 24/7.

This may be one of the things to come out at a civil trial
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 09:46:55 AM
Nora by all accounts was vunerable because of disability's, whose responsibility would it be,of course fully realising they can't be watched 24/7.
Her parents.   Now tell me in what way her parents behaved irresponsibiy?  Including her on stimulating and expensive  family holidays around the world? 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2020, 09:58:11 AM
yes, why are so many people so angry and judgmental about Nora’s parents?

Why do Nora's parents appear to be angry and judgemental?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 12, 2020, 10:02:31 AM
Why do Nora's parents appear to be angry and judgemental?

Because their daughter has disappeared and according to them the authorities have not answered the questions they have asked.. Have not held an inquest... Have not revealed full details of the PM and have decided there was no criminal involvement
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 10:02:38 AM
Why do Nora's parents appear to be angry and judgemental?
They have an emotional and physical involvement in the case and therefore it is their right, unlike thousands of Daily Mail readers.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 10:03:54 AM
Funny how on The Miscarriages of Justice Forum one is supposed to just accept the word of all foreign authorities without question.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2020, 10:11:02 AM
Because their daughter has disappeared and according to them the authorities have not answered the questions they have asked.. Have not held an inquest... Have not revealed full details of the PM and have decided there was no criminal involvement

'According to them' is exactly right. They have a theory and they want everyone to agree with it. As yet, there's no evidence that they're right and the police were wrong. It's the same with the suing of the resort. They think the resort was at fault in some way, but that doesn't mean they were.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 10:36:51 AM
'According to them' is exactly right. They have a theory and they want everyone to agree with it. As yet, there's no evidence that they're right and the police were wrong. It's the same with the suing of the resort. They think the resort was at fault in some way, but that doesn't mean they were.
It doesn’t meant they’re wrong either, so all these people passing judgement now would do well to shut their beaks.  IMO.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 12, 2020, 10:39:41 AM
'According to them' is exactly right. They have a theory and they want everyone to agree with it. As yet, there's no evidence that they're right and the police were wrong. It's the same with the suing of the resort. They think the resort was at fault in some way, but that doesn't mean they were.

How di you know what they think... In reality you don't have a clue
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2020, 10:51:44 AM

They think.........


her disappearance and death were “caused directly by the defendant’s negligence and/or recklessness,”

https://www.thejournal.ie/nora-quoirin-legal-case-4954709-Jan2020/
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 12, 2020, 10:55:50 AM
They think.........


her disappearance and death were “caused directly by the defendant’s negligence and/or recklessness,”

https://www.thejournal.ie/nora-quoirin-legal-case-4954709-Jan2020/

The family want truth and justice... What's wrong with that
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It doesn’t meant they’re wrong either, so all these people passing judgement now would do well to shut their beaks.  IMO.

So the only people allowed to 'pass judgement' are those who think the parents are right?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 11:16:15 AM
So the only people allowed to 'pass judgement' are those who think the parents are right?
If everyone stopped jumping in and passing judgement on everything, especially before the full facts are revealed, and especially about victims and their families, the world would be a kinder, more empathetic place, don’t you agree?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 12, 2020, 11:37:24 AM
So the only people allowed to 'pass judgement' are those who think the parents are right?

I haven't seen anyone passing judgement are negative ones
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2020, 11:42:33 AM
If everyone stopped jumping in and passing judgement on everything, especially before the full facts are revealed, and especially about victims and their families, the world would be a kinder, more empathetic place, don’t you agree?

You are passing judgement, although you seem to think you're not.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
You are passing judgement, although you seem to think you're not.
I didn't say I wasn't - I sit in judgement of those who sit in judgement and I find them guilty of being nasty b........s. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2020, 02:11:49 PM
I didn't say I wasn't - I sit in judgement of those who sit in judgement and I find them guilty of being nasty b......s.

In my opinion you have judged the situation and decided that the family are behaving correctly.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 12, 2020, 02:20:19 PM
In my opinion you have judged the situation and decided that the family are behaving correctly.
No, what I have judged is that there is no evidence that they failed Nora miserably and have judged that those who make such unpleasant claims to be unpleasant themselves.  Is that OK with you?  If not, why not?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 13, 2020, 01:17:59 PM
The latest news today is that Nora's parents will ask the govt to intervene so that an inquest is held.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 13, 2020, 01:44:32 PM


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/nora-quoirin-inquest-malaysia-government-call-a4332651.html

They'll never accept that she wandered out & got lost.

Much more likely that someone entered the apartment & invited her out for a stroll around the jungle, before giving her a stomach ulcer, stealing her clothes & leaving her sleeping on the ground some 2 miles away.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 13, 2020, 01:48:28 PM
Which government? UK, Irish or French? The cause of death is known, so what would an inquest add?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 13, 2020, 01:51:23 PM
Which government? UK, Irish or French? The cause of death is known, so what would an inquest add?

Why such an unsympathetic post to a bereaved parent
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 13, 2020, 01:56:45 PM
I'm surprised that there isn't an inquest, but perhaps it isn't mandatory in Malaysian law.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 13, 2020, 01:57:34 PM
Nóra Quoirin death: Parents ask for UK help in inquest call



The parents of a teenager found dead while on holiday in Malaysia have called for the UK government's support in their appeal for an inquest.

Nóra Quoirin, 15, whose mother is from Belfast, disappeared from her room at the Dusun resort on 4 August last year.

Her body was found 10 days later about 1.6 miles (2.5km) away.

The Malaysian Attorney General's Chambers has classified the case as "no further action", according to the Lucie Blackman Trust.

This means no inquest into her death will be held.

Her French-Irish parents, Meabh and Sebastien, have called for "an audible consistent call" from the Irish, French and UK governments to help them get to the truth of what happened to their daughter.

They said they had been promised "total transparency" by the Malaysian authorities but had received the "complete opposite".

Speaking on Radio 5 Live on Monday, her mother, Meabh, said: "Our respective governments in France and Ireland have given us their commitment to continue to support our request.

"We would really like to call on the British authorities to lend their support to those calls for transparency and for an inquest, so that justice can be done, so that the truth can be obtained.

"We have to get up and fight every day to get answers from Malaysia which feels so unbelievably unfair," Mrs Quoirin said.

"We are absolutely shocked at how they have chosen to conduct themselves.

Mrs Quoirin said the family had discovered through the Malaysian press that the results of a post mortem examination into her daughter's death would be released soon.

According to an earlier report, Nóra died from internal bleeding, probably caused by hunger and stress.

Nóra was born with holoprosencephaly, a disorder which affects brain development. She had learning difficulties and a physical disability which made her vulnerable.

Her mother said a post mortem examination could only explain medically what happened to Nóra; it would not explain how she could have got to where she was found.

"We know this isn't straightforward. There aren't obvious criminal angles to pursue," she said.

"Some of that is down to not looking for evidence fast enough and not carrying out forensic checks immediately upon us raising the alarm.

"The case is complex, it won't be easy to get answers, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try."

Mrs Quoirin said she and her husband fundamentally believed that their daughter had been abducted.

"She is too vulnerable a child to have gone off anywhere by herself. She was not physically or mentally capable of doing that.

"We know that how she was found is incompatible with someone being alone and exposed in a jungle with no footwear or clothes for as long as she was.

"We absolutely believe that someone took her and we want to know how that happened."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51089818
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: jassi on January 13, 2020, 02:09:51 PM
Not sure the parents would be satisfied by an inquest unless its findings were in line with there opinion.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: G-Unit on January 13, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
I'm surprised that there isn't an inquest, but perhaps it isn't mandatory in Malaysian law.

An inquest is held in England and Wales to answer four questions;

Identity of the deceased
Place of death
Time of death
How the deceased came by their death

it is not the purpose of the inquest to determine, or appear to determine, criminal or civil liability, to apportion guilt or attribute blame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquests_in_England_and_Wales#Where_an_inquest_is_needed

If Malasia is similar, then the answers to those four questions have been answered imo.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 13, 2020, 02:18:24 PM

INQUIRIES OF DEATHS

A. Introduction

1. In Malaysia, an inquiry of death is carried out when there is
reason to suspect that a person has died in the following manner:

• sudden;

• unnatural;

• by violence; or

• cause of death unknown and in situations where the law
requires an inquiry.

http://www.agc.gov.my/agcportal/uploads/files/coporate/Research_Div/Death%20Inquiries270709.pdf
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 13, 2020, 02:19:04 PM
An inquest is held in England and Wales to answer four questions;

Identity of the deceased
Place of death
Time of death
How the deceased came by their death

it is not the purpose of the inquest to determine, or appear to determine, criminal or civil liability, to apportion guilt or attribute blame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquests_in_England_and_Wales#Where_an_inquest_is_needed

If Malasia is similar, then the answers to those four questions have been answered imo.

The fourth..
How the deceased came by their death may not have been answered... That's what an inquest would look at.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 13, 2020, 02:21:01 PM

What is the objective of the inquiry?

Inquiries of deaths are held to:

• identify the dead body i.e. who the deceased was;

• to ascertain the date and time of death;

• the place where the death had occurred;

• how the death was caused;

• after what manner the deceased came by his/her death;

• the person/s who caused or carried out the act or blunder
that resulted in the death, if any; and

• inquire whether any person is criminally concerned in the
cause of such death.

http://www.agc.gov.my/agcportal/uploads/files/coporate/Research_Div/Death%20Inquiries270709.pdf
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2020, 06:11:57 PM

'VOICE TO VOICELESS' General Election candidate defends asking if special needs children should be ‘micro-chipped’ after Nora Quoirin death

INDEPENDENT Cllr Sharon Keogan has defended asking if disabled children should be micro-chipped after the death of Nora Quoirin.


(https://www.thesun.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/01/post.jpg)

Nora, 15, was found dead following an intense and high-profile ten-day search around the Malaysian jungle resort of Dusun in August after she vanished from the house where she and her family were staying.

The young teen suffered from learning difficulties.

Following her death, Ms Keogan who is a candidate for the forthcoming General Election posted on Facebook with a picture of Nora enquiring whether children with special needs should be micro-chipped.

Two posts have appeared on social media - however the election candidate has claimed that one has been edited.

The post said: "This was a tragic end for this family but should children with special needs who have poor ability to communicate be micro-chipped with GPS? Please discuss!"

She then added: "This has been asked of me by a parent of a Teenager with no verbal skills! What do you think?"

'HE WAS DISTRAUGHT'
Speaking on the Micheal Reade Show on LMFM this morning, Ms Keogan was asked by listeners as to why she wanted to discuss the matter.

In response she said: "I was approached by a father who has a son just turning to be out of his teens to a young adult.

"Following the incident of what happened to Nora he was distraught, he wanted to find ways of how he could protect his son.

'FRIEND ASKED ME TO DISCUSS'
"I would have known this man and this boy from a very young age and I would have been part of supporting the family for getting services for the young man and he just put himself in the shoes of Nora's parents and he was distraught because his son would have gone missing on a number of occasions.

"He basically asked me if I would discuss the issue in relation to GPS and some sort of GPS system - that if this child did ever happen to be on vacation and did go missing that he would be able to find that child.

"He asked me to discuss it and maybe open a conversation on it.

'IT WAS RESPECTFUL'
"I have always been a voice for those who are voiceless and I did that and you can see some of the comments on it, it was respectful.

"I didn't make any comment on it whatsoever, I didn't agree with it or disagree with it because I am not going to make judgement on it for any parent who has a child who is non-verbal.

"I admire those parents with children with abilities and disabilities. I've great admiration for them.

"At the end of the day we have to walk in their shoes to understand the struggles of their daily life that they have in coping with and dealing with very special children.

GPS SYSTEMS
"He wanted me to open the dialogue. There are a number of GPS systems out there for children who are non-verbal.

"Parents actually would have become knowledgeable about them because of the post.

"Another woman contacted me where her mother had dementia and her mother kept walking out in the middle of the night and she also got information from the post as well.

The Meath Cllr was then asked "Do you believe micro-chipping people with a GPS warrants consideration?"

'NO IDEA OF STRUGGLE'
She then said: "No, I do not believe that. They are your words Micheal."

She was then asked: "Do you believe it does not warrant consideration?"

To which she said: "I believe it is up to the individual person - how they choose a system.

"I don't have a child with special needs. I have no idea of the struggles they face every single day."

'DISCUSSION THAT WARRANTS CONSIDERATION'
Ms Keogan was then further quizzed by Micheal Reade as he said: "When I think you ask the public to discuss something under your name as a public representative, you're starting a discussion that warrants consideration."

She continued: "Is that not what I'm meant to do? Am I not supposed to give a voice to the voiceless?

"I think anything that makes our children safer warrants consideration."

PARENTS UPSET

Reade then continued to explain how her post caused some parents of disabled children to be upset.

He said: "Do you believe it was appropriate?

"I think this girl's family, friends, anyone that knew her might have found that difficult to look at because it implies that if Nora Quoiron had of been micro-chipped with GPS she might be alive."

'VOICE FOR THE VOICELESS'
The Independent Cllr replied: "Maybe that's how the parent who reached out to me took it. That's exactly why he contacted me.

"I can't help if I've upset people. I'm a voice for the voiceless.

"I haven't upset any parents have I?"

'I'M SORRY'
"They're taking that post there [the second post] and not this post here. Take the post that was originally posted.

"I would never ever set out to upset any human being in my life. If I cannot help someone in life I would certainly not go out to upset them.

"I have basically used my position to verbalise a distraught father who wanted the issue discussed in a public forum and used me as a vessel to do that.

"I'm sorry if that has upset people but it certainly wasn't my intention to do that."

NEW FB POST
In a new post on Facebook today, Cllr Keoghan wrote: "In August 2019, a father of a child with special needs who is non verbal, contacted me to ask if I would post a topic for discussion on my facebook page.

"He was distraught following the disappearance of Nora Quoirin, as his child goes missing regularly.

"He asked if I would open a dialogue to a wider audience in light of what had happened to Nora.

"He asked if I would post the following question on my page "should children with special needs who have poor ability to communicate be microchipped with GPS?"

'EDITED VERSION'
"Unfortunately, this week an edited version of the post from 6 months ago emerged and was shared on social media. The post was taken out of context.

"I understand this is a very sensitive subject and I am sorry if the post has caused offence.

"My intention was to support a member of the community who asked for my help.

"I have supported this family and their child since he was 3 years of age. I would never do anything to intentionally offend.

"Anyone who knows me and my work knows that I work hard for the community and will always give a voice to people who ask me to."

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5040249/independent-sharon-keogan-slammed-disabled-children-microchipped/
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 29, 2020, 06:17:56 PM
Have you got an alert set up Spam so that you are instantly notified of any old dribble reported in the press about this case?  Or are you just a regular Sun reader?
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2020, 06:18:31 PM
A GPS bracelet, belt or necklace doesn't sound like a terrible idea to me.
Although the obvious problem is that this can be easily removed.

I have a relative who has severe dementia, she recently wandered off but thankfully was found by a relative.
The level of her disability is such that she probably wouldn't have been able to communicate her name or address had she been found by a stranger.

But I'm not sure I could approve of a mark on the forehead & right hand.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 29, 2020, 06:20:13 PM
Why not just put a gps tracker on everyone at birth and be done with it.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
Have you got an alert set up Spam so that you are instantly notified of any old dribble reported in the press about this case?  Or are you just a regular Sun reader?

I was just scrolling through news items & saw the article.

I think the cllr raises & interesting yet controversial point.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2020, 06:23:25 PM
Why not just put a gps tracker on everyone at birth and be done with it.

Indeed, why not.

No more missing people.
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Davel on January 29, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
Indeed, why not.

No more missing people.

I dont think its a bad idea but we dont yet have the technology
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 29, 2020, 06:35:49 PM
Apart from it’s a complete infringement of civil liberties, and means that the state could monitor your whereabouts at all times a la Big Brother I’m all for it. 
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 02, 2020, 12:26:46 AM
A GPS bracelet, belt or necklace doesn't sound like a terrible idea to me.
Although the obvious problem is that this can be easily removed.

I have a relative who has severe dementia, she recently wandered off but thankfully was found by a relative.
The level of her disability is such that she probably wouldn't have been able to communicate her name or address had she been found by a stranger.

But I'm not sure I could approve of a mark on the forehead & right hand.

lol  tattoo...behave.


Yes, Housebound people with mobility issues are given an alarm which they wear around their neck to press if they fall. it  immediately transfers a call to a person who can talk to the injured person.  Perhaps disguised as a pierced earning? I see many babies with pierced ears in summer time on holiday!
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: sadie on February 03, 2020, 12:53:03 AM
lol  tattoo...behave.


Yes, Housebound people with mobility issues are given an alarm which they wear around their neck to press if they fall. it  immediately transfers a call to a person who can talk to the injured person.  Perhaps disguised as a pierced earning? I see many babies with pierced ears in summer time on holiday!
Ugh !
Title: Re: Irish teen Nóra Quoirin (15) disappears while on holiday in Malaysia.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 07:12:15 PM
Ugh !

I was joking about the tat and ear piercings on babies...     

  It is true that I have seen babies with ears pierced in their prams!