UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Other High Profile Cases and Persons of Interest => The murder of landscape architect Joanna Yeates in Bristol in December 2010. => Topic started by: mrswah on April 01, 2017, 01:47:29 PM
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I am attaching a document obtained from Avon Fire and Rescue Service. It gives details of vehicles, equipment and the number of personnel deployed to help the police recover Joanna Yeates' body from Longwood Lane.
It seems, to me, that , even though it would have been difficult to move a frozen body that was surrounded by snow, an excess of staff and equipment was used for this task.
It makes me wonder whether Joanna's body was, in fact, found where we were told it was found, ie on a verge at the roadside, or whether it was discovered somewhere far less accessible. A number of people who live locally, and who know Longwood Lane (which I do not) have commented (on other fora) that they cannot believe Joanna's body was by the roadside for 8 days without being discovered, as Longwood Lane is very popular with dog walkers.
Only the "Daily Mail" and ITN news commented on the fire engines at the scene-----the rest of the media were very quiet about it.
I do realise that none of this discounts Vincent Tabak as being Joanna's killer, but it seems odd, all the same.
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I am attaching a document obtained from Avon Fire and Rescue Service. It gives details of vehicles, equipment and the number of personnel deployed to help the police recover Joanna Yeates' body from Longwood Lane.
It seems, to me, that , even though it would have been difficult to move a frozen body that was surrounded by snow, an excess of staff and equipment was used for this task.
It makes me wonder whether Joanna's body was, in fact, found where we were told it was found, ie on a verge at the roadside, or whether it was discovered somewhere far less accessible. A number of people who live locally, and who know Longwood Lane (which I do not) have commented (on other fora) that they cannot believe Joanna's body was by the roadside for 8 days without being discovered, as Longwood Lane is very popular with dog walkers.
Only the "Daily Mail" and ITN news commented on the fire engines at the scene-----the rest of the media were very quiet about it.
I do realise that none of this discounts Vincent Tabak as being Joanna's killer, but it seems odd, all the same.
It is odd mrswah 8 appliances over 4 days and over 20 Fire Service Personnel involved, why are the coordinates missing from the PDF??? That shouldn't be a problem, should it???
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It is odd mrswah 8 appliances over 4 days and over 20 Fire Service Personnel involved, why are the coordinates missing from the PDF??? That shouldn't be a problem, should it???
According to the Wikipedia article about Joanna Yeates and their source, Avon & Somerset Constabulary, the full coordinates were 353516 171403. This turns out to be on the grass verge, just as we have been led to believe, but much further south than the spot directly above the quarry tunnel where people left their tributes after Longwood Lane had been opened to the public again. I was very surprised when I followed this up just a few moments ago. Doesn't this just add to the mystery?
For all I know, it is standard practice for the police to give misleading co-ordinates in all murder cases, and for Fire & Rescue Services to omit the last three digits of the co-ordinates, to avoid revealing that the police are anxious to deceive actual or potential criminals. From my knowledge of this specific case, though, I am convinced that the body lay in a much less accessible, much less conspicuous position than the jury was told.
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Only the "Daily Mail" and ITN news commented on the fire engines at the scene-----the rest of the media were very quiet about it.
I do realise that none of this discounts Vincent Tabak as being Joanna's killer, but it seems odd, all the same.
What were the journalists from all the other news media thinking of as they sat there patiently freezing at the entrance to Longwood Lane when the convoy of fire appliances arrived? Surely some of them were brave enough to ask a senior police officer? What kind of answer did they get that led all but the Daily Mail and ITN to suppress any mention of the size of the turnout? Was this a conspiracy too far?
We think it is only us who read the Daily Mail, but many of the jurors must have researched the case online before they knew they were going to serve on this jury. Many a lawyer's clerk would have eagerly noted the picture of the 1.5 ton crane that the Mail assured its readers was used to raise the body of Joanna Yeates.
Misleading the jury about the place where the body was actually found was, in this particular case, a serious criminal conspiracy by itself. Willy nilly. It invalidates the entire trial, not just the parts that concerned themselves with the dumping of the body. Why should the police, the lawyers, and the news media, go to such great lengths to falsify the facts if the defendant really were guilty anyway?
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According to the Wikipedia article about Joanna Yeates and their source, Avon & Somerset Constabulary, the full coordinates were 353516 171403. This turns out to be on the grass verge, just as we have been led to believe, but much further south than the spot directly above the quarry tunnel where people left their tributes after Longwood Lane had been opened to the public again. I was very surprised when I followed this up just a few moments ago. Doesn't this just add to the mystery?
For all I know, it is standard practice for the police to give misleading co-ordinates in all murder cases, and for Fire & Rescue Services to omit the last three digits of the co-ordinates, to avoid revealing that the police are anxious to deceive actual or potential criminals. From my knowledge of this specific case, though, I am convinced that the body lay in a much less accessible, much less conspicuous position than the jury was told.
Look at the screen shot attached even with part of the missing coordinates are as follows:
X Co-ordinate 0353 ***
Y Co-Ordinate 0171 ***
Which differ slightly with a Zero proceeding it...
There should be no reason NOW for them to hide the Co-ordinates.... should there ???
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One of my sons was a Fire Fighter for a while, and he say that this is quite ordinary to have so many appliances, especially as Joanna was in a ditch, bordering on deeper water.
It seemed to me at the time that who ever dumped her body did fall short of where he intended for her to fall, and then probably not found for much longer than actually happened. She finished up too close to the road to go unnoticed for very long.
Manslaughter or Murder? If you inadvertently kill someone in the process of committing what you might have hoped would be a lesser crime, then you are guilty of Murder. You can't just say, oh whoops, I never meant that to happen.
I don't know if he killed her, but he didn't have to admit to Manslaughter if he didn't do it. British Justice doesn't work like that.
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One of my sons was a Fire Fighter for a while, and he say that this is quite ordinary to have so many appliances, especially as Joanna was in a ditch, bordering on deeper water.
It seemed to me at the time that who ever dumped her body did fall short of where he intended for her to fall, and then probably not found for much longer than actually happened. She finished up too close to the road to go unnoticed for very long.
Manslaughter or Murder? If you inadvertently kill someone in the process of committing what you might have hoped would be a lesser crime, then you are guilty of Murder. You can't just say, oh whoops, I never meant that to happen.
I don't know if he killed her, but he didn't have to admit to Manslaughter if he didn't do it. British Justice doesn't work like that.
Eleanor.... you have said twice that she was in a DITCH now... Do you know something we don't????
If she was in a Ditch bordering deep water , then she wasn't on the verge.... So where was she???
Because as you say:
She finished up too close to the road to go unnoticed for very long.
So WHY did it take 8 DAYS????????
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I don't know if he killed her, but he didn't have to admit to Manslaughter if he didn't do it. British Justice doesn't work like that.
People from all walks of life admit to things they never did... even in this country..
As for British Justice, Stefen Kizco would disagree with you on that score!!
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Eleanor.... you have said twice that she was in a DITCH now... Do you know something we don't????
Did I say that twice? Not that it matters. I am only here because I was trying to help, and I know a teensy bit about The Fire Service.
Good Heavens, the little rat bag does know only too much about that. He nearly bores me witless.
Was she in a ditch? You tell me if she wasn't. It looked like a ditch to me.
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Did I say that twice? Not that it matters. I am only here because I was trying to help, and I know a teensy bit about The Fire Service.
Good Heavens, the little rat bag does know only too much about that. He nearly bores me witless.
Was she in a ditch? You tell me if she wasn't. It looked like a ditch to me.
Eleanor, I'm grateful for your input, it is always good when people take an interest... But how could she be on a verge without being noticed on a busy road for 8 days??
Maybe your little rat bag can be of help to people with questions ?{)(**
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People from all walks of life admit to things they never did... even in this country..
As for British Justice, Stefen Kizco would disagree with you on that score!!
Sorry. The McCann Forum calls. It is now looking not half as awful as I first thought.
Or can you explain to me why Tabak said he did it when he didn't actually have to?
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Sorry. The McCann Forum calls. It is now looking not half as awful as I first thought.
Or can you explain to me why Tabak said he did it when he didn't actually have to?
What's not looking half as awful as you first thought??
As for why Dr Vincent Tabak made a Plea... I cannot answer that question.. If I could maybe there would already be a retrial... But with that we are going off topic. ?{)(**
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Eleanor, I'm grateful for your input, it is always good when people take an interest... But how could she be on a verge without being noticed on a busy road for 8 days??
Maybe your little rat bag can be of help to people with questions ?{)(**
Joanna appears to have been snowed over, and a bit indiscernible on a country lane.
The little rat bag would be delighted to help, but I am not sure if John would allow him to post on my account. Or even if John would allow him to become a member in his own right on my IP. We only have my lap top between us. And never kid yourselves that John can't see.
It might suggest a conflict of interest, you see. Robin most definitely often doesn't agree with me. Rotten little rat bag.
But he does know about The Fire Service, which seems to me to be a protection of themselves. They have to protect themselves in these situation. Make sure that they don't contaminate a crime scene, and then extract..
I'll tell you what. I will talk to John about this. And then Robin can take over.
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What's not looking half as awful as you first thought??
As for why Dr Vincent Tabak made a Plea... I cannot answer that question.. If I could maybe there would already be a retrial... But with that we are going off topic. ?{)(**
The McCann Forum isn't looking half as awful. I came here for a bit of peace. No chance.
I will talk to John.
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Thank you for your input, Eleanor.
I did write to the Avon Fire and Rescue Service recently, and they were good enough to reply, although they didn't add anything new! I blatantly asked them why so many vehicles, personnel and equipment had been needed to recover one body. They said they were "assisting the police" !! Fair enough---I suppose they are not allowed to give out information to any old Tom, Dick or Harry, and they don't know me from Adam!
I have been looking through various media reports: some say Joanna's body was found in a ditch, some say on a verge-----so none the wiser!
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Thank you for your input, Eleanor.
I did write to the Avon Fire and Rescue Service recently, and they were good enough to reply, although they didn't add anything new! I blatantly asked them why so many vehicles, personnel and equipment had been needed to recover one body. They said they were "assisting the police" !! Fair enough---I suppose they are not allowed to give out information to any old Tom, Dick or Harry, and they don't know me from Adam!
I have been looking through various media reports: some say Joanna's body was found in a ditch, some say on a verge-----so none the wiser!
As far as I was able to see, there was deeper water just beyond the ditch, and certainly the body would have been harder to see if it had been dumped a bit further from the road.
I assumed that it was heavy, and so it dropped a bit too close.
Not that this has much to do with anything. There was more to do with what Vincent Tabak was up to at the time.
He certainly didn't go across The Clifton Bridge, but there is another bridge closer to where the body was found, and closer to where they know he was at the time.
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In the Wikipedia article about the case, ref. 164 is a police link to a live map, dating from shortly after the discovery of the body, showing (in blue) the position of each of the key locations in the case:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?t=h&f=q&oe=UTF8&geocode&hq&msa=0&source=embed&ie=UTF8&hnear=Longwood%20Ln%2C%20Failand%2C%20Bristol%2C%20Avon%20BS8%203TQ%2C%20United%20Kingdom&mid=1hHOmq1r2FiwLoHSQ8ioerpSlwJc&ll=51.448780243465905%2C-2.634984499999973&z=14
The blue balloon showing the position where they claimed the body was found, however, is at a significantly different position from later sources.
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There does appear to be some confusion within the press and media as to where exactly the body was found but I believe the two photos below depict correctly where Joanna was found.
(http://i.imgur.com/Sd64r2o.jpg)
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01798/LongwoodLane_1798377c.jpg)
Beyond the wall is a steep drop to the quarry so undoubtedly the police had some difficulty in their search for clues because of the difficult conditions and the terrain.
(http://i.imgur.com/RTiqLZs.jpg)
The same location photgraphed more recently.
https://goo.gl/maps/oDMHjLwGwdC2
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There does appear to be some confusion within the press and media as to where exactly the body was found but I believe the photo below is accurate.
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01798/LongwoodLane_1798377c.jpg)
Beyond the wall is a steep drop to the quarry so undoubtedly the police had some difficulty in their search for clues because of the difficult conditions and the terrain.
That is a very good photo, as it gives a good perspective of the sloping verge. The grass beside the roadway has been trampled, but you can see that the verge slopes down towards the tarmac, so that a body would have to be deposited on to it with some care to prevent it from rolling down into the path of the traffic. However, the people who placed their tributes obviously had other thoughts in their minds.
I suppose the spot much further along the Lane (in the direction shown in this photo) whose co-ordinates the police originally published on their website was false information intended to mislead the perpetrator. A yellow mark was eventually painted on the road to mark the spot, some time after this photo was taken, but I don't really believe that this was really where Joanna was found either. No crane, nor fire engines, would have been needed to recover her body, if it really had been dumped here - and anyway, Roxy the Labrador would have nosed her out long before Christmas day.
It is only speculation that the police looked for clues on the other side of the wall. No such clues were ever reported at the trial.
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For heavens sake Nine, Jo was not in plain view on a verge. Towards the end of Longwood Lane (the Clarken Coombe end) the wall starts to curve to the right the grass verge goes straight on. There is a ditch which used to have a wooden fence in front of it, Jo was I believe over the fence and in the ditch by the wall. Not in plain view.
Unfortunately she would have been spotted but it snowed around 2.30am, this is why it took eight days to find her.
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For heavens sake Nine, Jo was not in plain view on a verge. Towards the end of Longwood Lane (the Clarken Coombe end) the wall starts to curve to the right the grass verge goes straight on. There is a ditch which used to have a wooden fence in front of it, Jo was I believe over the fence and in the ditch by the wall. Not in plain view.
Unfortunately she would have been spotted but it snowed around 2.30am, this is why it took eight days to find her.
Welcome Nina....
Have you a picture of the fence where she was placed over... because I would love to see it....
The fence is never mentioned in trial as far as I am aware... there are differing opinions as to where her body actually was... And it wasn't under the Forensic tents!
Andrew Mott never mentions getting his leg over any fence whilst his unwieldly broom handle could have made contact with the body of Joanna Yeates, therefore possibly transferring evidence onto the wall behind her...
The picture I have attached has as far as I know been the Offical line as to where her body lain....
[attachment deleted by admin]
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For heavens sake Nine, Jo was not in plain view on a verge. Towards the end of Longwood Lane (the Clarken Coombe end) the wall starts to curve to the right the grass verge goes straight on. There is a ditch which used to have a wooden fence in front of it, Jo was I believe over the fence and in the ditch by the wall. Not in plain view.
Unfortunately she would have been spotted but it snowed around 2.30am, this is why it took eight days to find her.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8826662/Joanna-Yeates-trial-snow-covered-body-found-by-dog-walker.html
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For heavens sake Nine, Jo was not in plain view on a verge. Towards the end of Longwood Lane (the Clarken Coombe end) the wall starts to curve to the right the grass verge goes straight on. There is a ditch which used to have a wooden fence in front of it, Jo was I believe over the fence and in the ditch by the wall. Not in plain view.
Unfortunately she would have been spotted but it snowed around 2.30am, this is why it took eight days to find her.
Hi Nina
Thank you for your post---I don't know the area, and haven't heard that before-----some of the papers mention a verge, and some a ditch!
Perhaps you are the right person to explain to us all why so many fire engines, and personnel, and so much equipment was used to recover the body.
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mrswah all I can tell you about that is that in Bristol if someone jumps from the bridge all emergency services are called out. This also goes for retrieving things and people.
You have maybe heard of the young men found dead in the rivers in Bristol and Bath, well I don't know about Bath but Bristol has all services responding to retrieving these bodies, so quite honestly I see nothing weird about them all being at L/Lane, including the boat you say was there!
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mrswah all I can tell you about that is that in Bristol if someone jumps from the bridge all emergency services are called out. This also goes for retrieving things and people.
You have maybe heard of the young men found dead in the rivers in Bristol and Bath, well I don't know about Bath but Bristol has all services responding to retrieving these bodies, so quite honestly I see nothing weird about them all being at L/Lane, including the boat you say was there!
The boat the Avon Fire and Rescue Service says was there! Perhaps the fire engines just carry them automatically---I just don't know.
But Joanna was not found in water, was she?
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You're right there is usually one fire engine that has it permanently on board. I suppose they don't know where they will be called to next.
Living in Clifton I may just be able to help with the timings.
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You're right there is usually one fire engine that has it permanently on board. I suppose they don't know where they will be called to next.
Living in Clifton I may just be able to help with the timings.
Thanks Nina!
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Just thought I'd add this image to this topic as people may skim the threads...
This is an image of a Fire Serviceman wearing A Rope Access harness... If they were recovering her from the verge on the side of the road... why on earth would the Fire Service need Rope Access Harness ???
She had to be inaccessible... Period!
I've attached 2 screenshots from the PDF that mrswah posted... makes a little more sense now.....
It says they help in the recovery of a body and also that 2 harnesses were used.... Up until now I assumed because there was no other way to prove differently... That the information about straps and harness related to the straps they said they used to lift her from the verge...
But since I discovered the image of the Fireman wearing his rope access harness.. I am now of the opinion that there must have been at least 2 Fire Service personel who adorned this equipment...
The question is why.... Why would you need 2 Fire Service personel wearing Rope Access Harness's to recover Joanna Yeates from a Grass Verge????
The only reason for the use of such equipment is that she was located over the wall down into the quarry... Or there was something else over the wall they needed to recover...
They may list it as Animal harness's ... but we can clearly see that it is not!!!
Why is the Incident Catergory Classed as "Special Service" ????
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8188.msg404562#msg404562
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Hm.
That is all I can say-----------Hm !!!
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Hm.
That is all I can say-----------Hm !!!
It's starting to show through mrswah.... The Fire Services involvement was far more significant than they have lead the PUBLIC to believe...
The images comes from a News Agency... It's a screen shot of one of their reports at the time... It may have even been screened live at the time ??
Now you know why you can't find any pictures of The Fire Service and what they were doing.... You never know what you may find!!!
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It's starting to show through mrswah.... The Fire Services involvement was far more significant than they have lead the PUBLIC to believe...
The images comes from a News Agency... It's a screen shot of one of their reports at the time... It may have even been screened live at the time ??
Now you know why you can't find any pictures of The Fire Service and what they were doing.... You never know what you may find!!!
The vast majority of the public know nothing whatsoever about the fact that the fire and rescue service played such a big part in the recovery of Joanna Yeates' body.
A few weeks ago, a poster called Nina, who knows the Longwood Lane area well, was able to tell us a little more about the location of the body. As soon as we invited her to elaborate, she disappeared!
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"Special Services"... That was the Catergory the Fire Service had listed as their involvement in this incident...
I'm trying to establish, how this Special Service would be applied in this case....
So far I have discovered that it would be chargeable.... So how much did it cost to have 8 Vehicles and 27 men attend Longwood Lane over 4 days???
Plenty I would imagine...
So why did they need them for so long??? That is a really important question... Joanna Yeates body had been recovered by 4:45pm on the 25th December 2010.. So that should have been the end of the Fire Service's involvement....
I haven't found Avon and Somerset's Call charges... But I'm sure they would be similar to other Fire Services around the country... so I'm linking a pdf with Costs of such services ...
http://www.wyfs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Special-Service-Charges.pdf
Take NOTE... these charges are by the HOUR!!!
Again.. I have found a quote from a pdf from another Fire Service :
North Yorkshire Fire & Rescue Service
Special Service Calls Standard Operating Procedure
Page 2 of 5
Please note this is the website version of this document. If you are a member of NYFRS staff please use the intranet version
to the public or general public misfortune arises from a natural disaster.
(iii) Removing chimney pots etc which have become a danger to the public or
have not arisen as a result of a natural disaster.
(iv) The sheeting of roofs where the damage is not a result of storms or other
natural disasters.
(iv) Services which involve trapped animals or birds, etc.
(vii) Replenishing water supplies.
(viii) Filling of swimming pools etc.
(ix) Taking part in a media production.
(x) Providing safety cover at a media production.
(xi) Providing standby cover at large Public Events
https://www.northyorksfire.gov.uk/useruploads/files/financial_transparency/special_service_calls_procedure.pdf
As far as I can see... In this instance... it was completely chargeable..... They were not saving someone life or putting out a fire...
Again it makes you question.... Why 8 Appliances... and Why 27 Personnel??? Who are Charging by the Hour!!
Another little point... Apparently if it is a none emergency they are Not allowed to travel at speed and use their sirens.... I don't know if they did!!!
EDIT..... what would the recovery of a body on a Grass Verge come under in their list of Chargeable Services???? And how can having so many appliances out of action be justified... (not being disrespectful)..
When it was only one person on a Grass Verge
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Ok.... I've found something and don't know quite what to make of it....
It's a pdf.... I used FRS Incident Number: 019064-25122010 to find it ..... It seems to pertain to the recover even though it's not as detailed as mrswah's...
I'll link the Pdf... But I have taken screen shots of the information... you will understand when you look at the pdf why I have done it this way...
Why has the pdf of mrswah only got one incident number???
If they had attended for different reasons and different days... surely they would have more than one incident number.....
I've attached 3 images of incidents around the same time that have had request for them I cannot confirm if they are related or not.... but they just peaked my interest... One of the screenshot is the same Ref Number as mrswah's ...
But it got me thinking because it only had one date attached to it.... Being 25th December 2010...when they covered 4 days .....
And the other two... even though they have different numbers roughly being at the time made me wonder...
1018680-18122010 18/12/2010 15:59:19 SpecialService Other outdoors (including land)
019064-25122010 25/12/2010 13:04:48 SpecialService Grassland, woodland & crops
019333-28122010 28/12/2010 04:54:08 SpecialService Outdoor structure
As I say I cannot be 100% sure that these are all in Bristol ..... but it just had me thinking.... This pdf cannot be for the whole country can it?????
There are 82 pages to this pdf... with 3 incidents per page covering .... years 2009- 2013 So that is ....
82 x3 = 246 incidents
246 divided by 4 = 88 incidents a year.. roughly... or roughly 1 and a quarter incidents a week....
So being part of the same PDF I deduced that it must be for the same Fire Service... and as mrswah's FRS Incident Number: 019064-25122010 is there.. I thought it must be either Avon and Somerset or Bedminster...
But it could also be simply requests people have made.... Do people make request like this all the time ???
Incident number Date/time Incident Type Property Type 01/04/2013 02 ...
This quote is what google listed when I put mrswah's number in... That was how I came across the pdf!
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/246979/response/611634/attach/4/fofi%202938%20CODE.pdf
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hello mrswuh, well I suppose I did disappear but it was because the weather had turned and I am working. What do you want to know about L/Lane?
What I can do is to give you all an apology for my description of Joanna being found in a ditch, which gives the impression of quite a deep hole. Not so, I was talking to a friend who travels down L/Lane twice daily along with hundreds of other people, he told me that it was more like a slight impression in the ground (that was already there) where Joanna was placed. The rest of the description is right the slight curve etc. I was going by memory from 2009. So again my apologies.
You need to know that L/Lane has no street lights at all, so I don't know how Tabak managed to see whatever he was trying to do. Also that half of L/Lane has no residential houses and before you all start putting pictures of buildings up these are commercial/agricultural buildings. Therefore any CCTV points not towards the entrance gates but the buildings. Hope that this may add something to this very sad event (for both parties). If I can help in any way ask away, unfortunately it was on my doorstep.
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Nine was asking about the paper rack in Bargain Booze it contained the Bristol Evening Post and I don't know what the headlines were you have to pay money for that sort of info from the Post archives! The picture was obviously from CCTV and the date 17/12/10 so Joanna was not missing at that point and as far as I remember Bristol had no serial maniacs running around at that time (polite cough) apart from V.Tabak.
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Nine was asking about the paper rack in Bargain Booze it contained the Bristol Evening Post and I don't know what the headlines were you have to pay money for that sort of info from the Post archives! The picture was obviously from CCTV and the date 17/12/10 so Joanna was not missing at that point and as far as I remember Bristol had no serial maniacs running around at that time (polite cough) apart from V.Tabak.
There is no evidence that Vincent Tabak was a "serial maniac". Not even the police have ever claimed that. As for there being no serial maniacs in Bristol at the time, well, we don't know, do we? I couldn't say if we have any in my part of the world either, for that matter.
However, thanks for the info about Longwood Lane, Nina. I have never been there, and it is interesting to hear from someone who actually knows the place. I had looked on Google maps, 192, etc, and had deduced that many of the buildings were commercial ones.
Interesting what you say about there being no street lighting. It makes me wonder whether whoever killed Joanna dumped the body during daylight hours. Covering a body with leaves, etc is not likely to be an easy thing to do in the dark.
As a matter of interest (and, of course, I will understand if you don't want to answer), how does your friend know exactly where Joanna's body was found?
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hello mrswuh, well I suppose I did disappear but it was because the weather had turned and I am working. What do you want to know about L/Lane?
What I can do is to give you all an apology for my description of Joanna being found in a ditch, which gives the impression of quite a deep hole. Not so, I was talking to a friend who travels down L/Lane twice daily along with hundreds of other people, he told me that it was more like a slight impression in the ground (that was already there) where Joanna was placed. The rest of the description is right the slight curve etc. I was going by memory from 2009. So again my apologies.
You need to know that L/Lane has no street lights at all, so I don't know how Tabak managed to see whatever he was trying to do. Also that half of L/Lane has no residential houses and before you all start putting pictures of buildings up these are commercial/agricultural buildings. Therefore any CCTV points not towards the entrance gates but the buildings. Hope that this may add something to this very sad event (for both parties). If I can help in any way ask away, unfortunately it was on my doorstep.
Hi Nina...
How would it be possible for a body to be left on Longwood Lane undetected for 8 days?
And if you can remember how deep was the snow ?
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No you're right he isn't a `serial' killer, my apologies again.
Google maps are good but given that the ones most are looking at were taken in summer it makes the topography `wrong' if you know what I mean.
I doubt very much whether Joanna was put there during the day too many cars around. Putting leaves on would have been a pretty hard job, but I don't know whether the moon was out or full or obscured that night. Depends, don't you think?
I don't mind answering your question because he wasn't even in Bristol that weekend. After L/Lane was opened there were cones around just one spot quite a small spot apparently.
Hope this has answered some of your questions. I will try not to be so flippant about V.Tabak in the future, but he did say he did it and I believe him. However I will answer anything I can truthfully.
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Nine, how on earth would I know about the 8 days? I mean I wasn't going up and down L/Lane each day but I can hazard a guess, my friend told me that no gritting had been done there so you have vehicles throwing that first lot of snow onto the verge, which froze, then we had more snow. That's the best I can do for that question.
I will ask my friend when I next see him about the approx. depth of the snow, as he travelled from Monday 20th to the Friday morning down L/Lane, so if he remembers he might be able to give us a good idea about it.
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Many thanks for your help, Nina--much appreciated!
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Just thought I'd add this image to this topic as people may skim the threads...
This is an image of a Fire Serviceman wearing A Rope Access harness... If they were recovering her from the verge on the side of the road... why on earth would the Fire Service need Rope Access Harness ???
She had to be inaccessible... Period!
I've attached 2 screenshots from the PDF that mrswah posted... makes a little more sense now.....
It says they help in the recovery of a body and also that 2 harnesses were used.... Up until now I assumed because there was no other way to prove differently... That the information about straps and harness related to the straps they said they used to lift her from the verge...
But since I discovered the image of the Fireman wearing his rope access harness.. I am now of the opinion that there must have been at least 2 Fire Service personel who adorned this equipment...
The question is why.... Why would you need 2 Fire Service personel wearing Rope Access Harness's to recover Joanna Yeates from a Grass Verge????
The only reason for the use of such equipment is that she was located over the wall down into the quarry... Or there was something else over the wall they needed to recover...
They may list it as Animal harness's ... but we can clearly see that it is not!!!
Why is the Incident Catergory Classed as "Special Service" ????
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8188.msg404562#msg404562
I would say the latter, they needed to find out if anything had been thrown over the wall.
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I would say the latter, they needed to find out if anything had been thrown over the wall.
Why didn't they just the gate opened and go round to see.... obvious answer really
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Why didn't they just the gate opened and go round to see.... obvious answer really
There was a big drop over the other side of the wall into the quarry below so I surmise the only way the area could be surveyed properly and safely was by using a hoist supplied by the Fire & Rescue Service. Nothing sinister and little if anything to do with the recovery of the victim imo.
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There was a big drop over the other side of the wall into the quarry below so I surmise the only way the area could be surveyed properly and safely was by using a hoist supplied by the Fire & Rescue Service. Nothing sinister and little if anything to do with the recovery of the victim imo.
Wholeheartedly agree with on this point John, no point anyone taking risks at this juncture and they would have to conduct a proper search of the area.
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I did write to the Avon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Service a little while ago, and they sent me the same report!
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I did write to the Avon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Service a little while ago, and they sent me the same report!
Something else that you can ask Avon and Somerset Fire Services... Is what charges they made for the `Service they provided over the Xmas Period to this event... Or expenditure it cost for the same period ...
Also the coordinates shouldn't be redacted..... There is No reason for this..... I've been talking to "Random Firemen"...
Quite simply it would be easy enough to change anything on the pdf you received ..... They would just need to copy it on to another IRS form... to send it basically.... "Not saying this is what happened ...just that it's possible... as who ever sends the report just Logs In onto the IRS system...
Back to "The Rope Access Firemen"...And Stretcher and board
Firstly...unless it an emergency... the Fire Service will always use "Health and Safety Proceedure First...
And to use The Rope Access equipment,.. would mean that the situation would be a personal danger to them... The Fireman I talked too stated about the stretcher... with the info I gave him he said it was more likely to be a body board that was used and the straps are connected to the body board... There are handles which the Firemen would use to carry the board...
The rope access equipment would be used to stead the Firemen carry the board... As health and Safety would deem...
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I have Just posted this... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8056.msg412321#msg412321
Which had me trying to work out how long on the 25th December 2010 each "Fire Station Applicance was at the scene"
And it makes for an extremely interesting read....
(1):Image 1: Apparentley it only took them 6 seconds to get to the scene...
(2):Image 2: The "Rescue Tender" Is the only Fire Appliance used for more than a few minutes... it is there between
13:20:49 and 15:09:06
(3): Image 3: Water Pump Ladder... that was there between 13:17:37 and 15:07:23
These Two Appliances (IMO)... Are the Appliances used to retreive Joanna yeates body....from a location different to the one they let us believe she was found (IMO)....
All the other "Fire Appliances" were there for "SHOW".. (IMO)... Or used to "Block" vision to "THE MEDIA" !! (IMO)...
All the other Appliances are only there for a short time ranging from... All on the 25th December 2010
(1): Pumping - Water tender ladder
Time at scene: 13:20:45
Time available: 14:07:59 = 47 mins
(2): Boat - Safety boat
Time at scene: 13:18:23
Time available: 13:36:22 = 18 mins
(3): Pumping - Water tender (a different water tender)
Time at scene: 13:19:28
Time available: 13:36:38= 17 mins
(4): Pumping - Water tender
Time at scene: 14:59:03
Time available: 15:29:51 =30 mins
So out of 6 Attending Fire Appliance ... Only 2 were actually used in the Recovery... The rest were there for the "Media" (IMO)... Never saw any Pictures of the Recsue Boat Attending !!!!
So on The 25th December 2010... These are according to the PDF given as part of 'The Freedom of Information Act" I have used to demonstrate.. what Appliances were in Attendance...
This is "The Offical PDF relating to The Fire Service Attending "LONGWOOD LANE" in relation to Joanna yeates .. Just Clarifying it... because i don't believe it somehow!!!.. (IMO)...
I will post further on the IRS FORM and why it doesn't add up.... (IMO)...
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IRS Report PDF.... Part 1..........
Ok.... The IRS.... Report doesn't appear to come up to Scratch..... (IMO)...
I have found another IRS Report online... which refers to a different Incident... and the Information given is differs... Now I don't mean the information as in people and vehicles etc......
I have the Pdf's from "Both Incidents"..... The Joanna Yeates Case seems to be lacking some Detail!!!
(1): Image One Page 1 of Joanna Yeates report ..
(2): Image Two Page 1 "Peterhead Report"...
The Most Noticable thing to me "Firstly" is: Recording Officer..... This is missing entirely from the Joanna Yeates Case report.... I could never understand why it didn't have the Recording Officers Name on The Joanna yeates IRS Report...
Where as on The Peterhead Report".... Recording office is named as :SG-BrianE..... might not be a full name... But "THE RECORDING OFFICER " as "A Section" to be filled in... is completely "VOID" on The Joanna Yeates IRS Report...
Secondly why so Much Information on Page 1 of the Joanna Yeates Report... It contains too much information... It already lists Attendance and Location of Incident on Page 1.... where as "The Peterhead "
one doesn't...
I'll do this in parts.. because it may become too long.....
And at the end of the Posts The last post I will attach both of the Pdf's.... In one way or another ...
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IRS Report PDF.... Part 2......
Again The differences between the 2 Reports..
(1): Image One Page 1... Joanna Yeates IRS Report
(2): Image Two Page 2.. Peter head IRS Report
Why is the Attendence and Cordinates on Page 1 of The Joanna Yeates report?? when Clearly in the Peterhead Report... That information appears on Page 2..
Another point of Interest....
"Missing" From "The Joanna Yeates" Report... Is The Location.....
Which is clear to see in "The Peterhead ' Report...
Below is how the "Location of Incident"... Is reported in the "Joanna Yeates " report...
Location of incident
X-coordinate: 0353***
Y-coordinate: 0171***
Compared to "The Peterhead" Report..
Location description:FRESH CATCH LTD,KIRK SQUARE,PETERHEAD
X-coordinate: 0413089
Y-coordinate: 0846000
Now again TWO Interesting points here....
Firstly... "Location Decription".. Is Missing from The Joanna Yeates Report...
Secondly... "The Coordinates have been Redacted on "The Joanna Yeates report.....
Now I don't know what it is abut the "Information" on The "Joanna Yeates" Report, But it allows me to copy and paste text... Yet when i try to do the same on "The Peterhead" pdf... I cannot copy The text to... copy and paste????
What does that mean??? That "The Joanna Yeates Report has been made up and not a Genuine" Report???
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IRS Report PDF.... Part 3....
Again Two Images with discrepencies...
(1): Image One... Joanna Yeates Report..
(2): Image Two... Perterhead Report....
Again Information seems to be "MISSING"... from The Joanna Yeates Report!!!
THE..... 'FRS Call Sign Number... Is "Missing From "The Joanna Yeates Report... which is clearly visible on "The Peterhead Report"...
And funnily enough I have found another IRS Report which I will attach at the end... This report is Exactly Like 'The Peterhead Report.."
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IRS Report PDF Part 4.....
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8061.msg394112#msg394112
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/193549/response/486607/attach/3/Fresh%20Catch%20Peterhead.pdf
Below is "Another IRS Report From a Fire Service that I have found ...
Containing...
(1): Location Description..
(2): Full Coordinates
(3): Recording Fire Officer:
(4):FRS Callsign
All of these "Missing"... from The Joanna Yeates Report!!!
I have attached similar sreenshots from 'The ThirdReport I have found"..
http://www.cheshirefire.gov.uk/Assets/002064%20irs%20430%20response.pdf
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I have NOW... Found The PDF.. That "ALL"... Fire Service Personal fill out when they LogIn to the IRS online form...
Obviously some updates... But... December 2010 to December 2011 no updates to this system happened ...
So the 3 examples I have given should be exactly the same in regards to certain Information... Mainly..
(1): Location Description..
(2): Full Coordinates
(3): Recording Fire Officer:
(4):FRS Callsign
On the forms the following fields are displayed/ entered:
4.2a – Building Name/Number
4.2b – Postcode
4.2c – Flat/Unit Name/Number
4.2d – Street
4.2e – Locality
4.2f – Town
4.2g - County
Note: 4.2a, 4.2d are always required. At least one field of 4.2e, 4.2f and 4.2g is required.
Well they didn't use the "REQUIRED FIELDS" when filling out The Joanna Yeates Report!!
Image 1: Shows the start page and Login
Image 2: Shows The IRS Versions and Relese dates of the sysytem
Image 3 Is a continuation of Image 2.. It also shows.. That There were No ammendments to this IRS Login between: 24th June 2010 and 28th March 2012
Which further goes to show that there are MAJOR Discrepencies between The Pdfs... (IMO)...
Edit..... If 4.2d – Street... Is a required Field.... why didn't it say "Longwood Lane"?????
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11806/Incident_Recording_System_-_Questions_and_Lists_-_Version_1.6_-__XML_Schemas_v1-0p__in_use_from_April_2012.pdf
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: Time of call: 25 December 2010 13:01:46
Late call: No
Date/time of stopped message: 25 December 2010 16:23:22
Date/time closed: 29 December 2010 13:55:15
If the Date/Time of Stopped Message is 25th December at 16:23:22
Why are the other dates and Times not Included ???
The Incident gets Closed on 29th December at 13:55:15 ... Does anyone understand why the Times and Dates differ??
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The Coordinates that were missing from the pdf... I wondered if they were missing???
I thought I would try something different..... I thought the numbers may be a grid reference, so I put in the coordinates and it brought me to somewhere completely different...
But this area was not too far from 'The Harbourside...."
I have attached an image of a map with the reference Number I used...
Everytime I try to use Google Maps to get as close as I can to the pin on the map... I land in this area....
Image 2.....
I have always wondered if Joanna Yeates was in a different location, as I believed that she would easily be found on Longwood Lane... (IMO)..
And with all the smoke and mirrors in this case, it wouldn't surprise me at all....
Had Joanna Yeates been in more than one location???
The other reason i say it may be a grid reference number, is when i tried to find it as Northings and Eastings ..i found an address on Longwood lane and it's coordinates where
Easting: 353538
Northing: 171809
It didn't have zero in front of it..... Now i must admit I know nothing of Eastings and Northings...
Do all of them automatically start with a zero??
I would have thought if you added a zero the coordinates would be completely different...
Can anyone explain to me??? If I am incorrect??? I don't know???
https://www.gridreferencefinder.com/
I know her friend Rebecca said she was arty... Did she like Graffiti art???
Did she do Graffiti art??? That might explain the rucksack??
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Ok.... The coordinates that I used my my above post.... are right next to Avon Fire And Rescue...
I find that a bit strange... The Graffiti area is a stones though away.....
Image 4 I have circled where The Avon Fire and Rescue Is:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Why is it that "Bedminster" Fire station, are the station that are the "recording" Fire Station for The recovery of Joanna Yeates body?? (It says on the pdf)
Why not Nailsea... If the Police asked for assistance ... why did they ask "Bedminster Fire Station" ???
The Police arranged the use of these Fire Applicances...
The type of call is listed as " Assist other agency" So it had to be arranged .. So why "Bedminster"???
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A little more info about The Fire Station at Bedminster
The Fire Station is in Bedminster, very close to the centre of Bristol. It’s been, surprisingly, a fire station, as well as a tooling workshop and a biscuit factory. The ground floor, previously a poorly designed recording studio, once hosted Jethro Tull and Damned sessions, but has now been completely gutted and rebuilt and plays home to Geoff Barrow’s Invada Studios and his record label.
For the last few years The Fire Station has been run as commercial office units. In 2012 it changed hands and is now in the process of receiving new guts and a substantial internal face lift. There are nine or so units housing screen printers, graphic designers, photographers, authors and producers.
It’s a good place to work.
http://www.bluinc.co.uk/the-fire-station/
http://www.firestationbristol.co.uk/studios
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I have located a Document on the Avon Fire Services website.......
Those Numbers on the pdf have been a painful... But starting at 000 instead of *** I can gleen the information...
The PDF is off... The numbers that they have given us slightly differ from the information I have discovered on their website...
Now I have gone back to my grid reference... And by using 000 instead of *** I have a basic start point..
They gave us the wrong number in the first place....
I have found a CVS. file that has all of the information for call out in 2010... And I need to find all of the call outs , but at the moment I am just looking at the first call out at 13;01 pm 25th December 2010..
Now the numbers are different from what they have given on the PDF... they are
X 0354 and Y 0171
When I put 000 on the end if the coordinates to give me a start point of the area that they should cover... I actually end up on The Golf Course down Providence Lane and off to the left as you walk down..
The 0353 X coordinates relate to a different area... I'll post images
But the PDF appears to be telling us an untruth....
So I believe when they first said that Joanna Yeates was found on near The Golf course ... That info was true.. she was nearer the Golf Course than Longwood Lane ...
Here I will quote from the CVs file ...
25 December 2010 13:01:46 019064-25122010 354*** 171*** NSOM Long Ashton Police Special Service Outdoor Outdoor > Grassland, woodland and crops > Roadside vegetation Assist other agencies, Other assistance to police/ambulance, Other no yes 1 0 0 0
This Information from the Avon Fire Service... Puts Joanna Yeats in "Long Ashton" The pdf mrswah posted doesn't put a "Location"
Everything else there is the same as the PDF ... They changed a digit when they gave it to mrswah.... so the X and Y Coordiantes are actually..
X 354*** Y171***
The X an Y Coordinates on the pdf are X 0353*** Y 0171***
I used the grid reference finder and put in the basic X and Y coordinates ... Image one shows both basic coordinates..
Now my understanding is if i change the last 3 digits it will move me left or right by so many yards...
Image 2 has different Coordinates of the same area ...
It doesn't matter whether I change the last 3 digits... It always puts me to the right side in Long Ashton...
The Long and The short of it..... Joanna Yeates body was in "Long Ashton" which is NOT "Failand"...
Longwood Lane is Failand.... So Joanna Yeates could not have been on Longwood lane...
I'll say again.... If Joanna Yeates was not on "Longwood Lane" then how was Dr Vincent Tabak supposed to have put her there????
So when the media originally said that Joanna Yeates was found on a Golf Course... I believe that is True!!!
That also goes with the searching Providence Lane .....
https://www.gridreferencefinder.com/
https://www.avonfire.gov.uk/documents/category/99-previous-years
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The rest of the callouts are not on the Document which is from https://www.avonfire.gov.uk/documents/category/99-previous-years
How are the different Call outs not logged on the gov.uk webpage ???
The only other possibility is that each of these call outs have a different Number to them...
The pdf is a fake as far as I can tell.... they sent a fake to mrswah
The fact that it says strangulation as cause of death on this PDF should tell us that it wrong... They only fill out whether there were fatalities or not... Not how they died.... On the gov.uk document it just says No: Fatalities..
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25 December 2010 13:01:46 019064-25122010 354*** 171*** NSOM Long Ashton Police Special Service Outdoor Outdoor > Grassland, woodland and crops > Roadside vegetation Assist other agencies, Other assistance to police/ambulance, Other no yes 1 0 0 0
This part of the quote : Assist other agencies, Other assistance to police/ambulance, Other
Is that two seperate things ...
(1): Assist other agencies
(2): Assist Police/Ambulance
That looks like two seperate form of assistance to me .... because it says Other Assistance to Police/ambulance
I'll quote the one below :
25 December 2010 13:14:07 019067-25122010 359*** 172*** BRISTOL Central Person (land line) Fire Dwelling Building > Dwelling > Purpose Built Flat/Maisonette - multiple occupancy > 10 or more storeys yes Accidental no yes Yes - occupied no Persons Accidental; Cooking - other cooking Cooking appliance -> Cooker incl oven Electric Food -> Cooking oil or fat Food -> Cooking oil or fat None None -> No firefighting. Including out on arrival no no no
This part is where on the one in relation to Joanna Yeates says assist other agencies ..
Fire alarm due to Apparatus > Human > Cooking/burnt toast
So... what agency apart from The Police and Ambulance did the fire service assist??? Or am I mistaken with this ????
It finishes with Other... So who is Other ????
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Using the pdf Grid reference .. I have Located where it is on "Longwood Lane "
X 0353600
Y 0171360
See attached picture ...
Because the document from https://www.avonfire.gov.uk/documents/category/99-previous-years
States that the number is X 354*** Y 171*** then this location cannot be Longwood Lane where they say that they found Joanna Yeates... It has to be near The Golf Course and nowhere near Longwood Lane..... (IMO)
The Reference Number makes No difference whether there is a zero at the front of it.... image 2
https://www.gridreferencefinder.com/
Edit... If I use the same Grid reference and use: X 354660 Y 171360 I get 'Clarken Coombe" image 3 attached...
I have also attached an image 4 showing the difference between the 2 locations ...
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Eastings and Northings X and Y
353 and 354 are two different locations (IMO)... maybe I am wrong... But the attachment clearly shows that they are different....
Clarken Coombe and Longwood Lane come under two different Easting and Northing coordinates..
why should the pdf and the Official Document on the website say two different Coordinates ???
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Outdoor > Grassland, woodland and crops > Roadside vegetation
It's the words Roadside vegetation that makes us think Grass Verge but Roadside Vegetation covers
Vegetation on roadsides,
banks, roundabouts and
surrounding areas.
Includes trees and grasses
and other species.
So that doesn't put Joanna Yeates on the Roadside Verge....(IMO)... she could have been over the wall or nearer the golf course... Or even in the woods .....
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/421517/response/1019047/attach/3/17%2008%2008%2009.15%20Attachment.pdf
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Maybe asking for the ODF was the wrong piece of information... Maybe a "Special Services form is what we need... It will out line who called and what the nature of the call was...
Form 701 Special Services Report
I believe there are 22 pages to these reports and it shoould give a comprehensive report as to what The Police requested of the Fire Service...
6.21 Special Service Requests Made Directly to Fire Stations
Requests for a non-emergency SSC that are made directly to a fire station may be
accommodated, subject to operational exigencies. The type of service requested must be
appropriate to the WYFRS and prior approval must be obtained from the First Call Officer
before any undertaking is given to perform the service in question.
If approved, the service may only be provided subject to the prior completion of the Form
of Application (701A).
Where it is apparent to the Station Manager/Watch Manager that an immediate turnout
would enable serious loss to be averted, there will be no requirement to contact the First
Call Officer. Control should be informed of an emergency SSC and be provided with the
incident details.
Requests for a non-emergency SSC that are made directly to a fire station may be
accommodated, subject to operational exigencies.
The type of service requested must be appropriate to the Fire and Rescue Service and
prior approval must be obtained from the First Call Officer before any undertaking is given
to perform the service in question.
If approved, the service may only be provided subject to the prior completion of the Form
of Application (701A).
So the form must have been filled out.... And how long did it take to get approval?????
The type of service requested must be appropriate to the Fire and Rescue Service and
prior approval must be obtained from the First Call Officer before any undertaking is given
to perform the service in question.
So Joanna Yeates could NOT have been on a Grass Verge, because The type of service requested must be appropriate to the Fire and Rescue Service ... Therefore lifting a body from a Grass Verge would not come under their Remit....(IMO)...
So she has to at least be over the wall or somewhere inaccessible for The Fire Service to take part....!!!!
http://www.westyorksfire.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Ops-Procedure-No-16.pdf
Just another point.. does anyone who in Bristol remember a 'Suicide' happening on the 27th December 2010??
27 December 2010 20:22:02 019310-27122010 358*** 173*** BRISTOL Clifton Police Special Service Outdoor Outdoor > Other outdoors (including land) > Highway/road surface/pavement Suicide/attempts, Suicide no yes 1 0 0 0
1 equals 1 fatality.... And yes is for victims involved....
s://www.avonfire.gov.uk/documents/category/99-previous-years
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With all of The Fire and Rescue Appliances at Longwood Lane and the description we have of each appliance called, I was wondering where they sent the "Safety Boat" too??
It recorded on The pdf, But when we saw all of the footage of the Fire Appliances arriving on Longwood lane, we never saw The arrival of this "Safety Boat"...
Did they send it somewhere else??
Deployed from Home Station: Avon > Bedminster Fire Station
Boat - Safety boat
25 December 2010 13:09:32
25 December 2010 13:18:23
25 December 2010 13:36:22
No
2
Time mobile:
Time at scene:
Time available:
Demounted resource:
Number of crew:
T
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The Red Vehicle we always saw on Longwood Lane, appears to be some kind of Incident Vehicle, it is set up with Hot water and brewing facilities..
I have attached an close up image of the inside of this vehicle ....
[attachment deleted by admin]
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All those fire trucks and rope access guys have always puzzled me.... They did say that a winch was used in the recovery of Joanna Yeates..
Maybe I have stumbled across an alternative spot that Joanna Yeates was located with needing the use of rope access guys and a Fire appliance winch..
Durnford Quarry Cave
In the north face of the quarry, near the crushing plant. A vertical shaft >3m wide; the lower half is filled with yellowish deposit, bisected by the quarry face. Numerous small tubes and passages in face immediately to the west.
What is this cave like.. I cannot find any images of the cave only maps... But that in essence would mean that Joanna Yeates had been on Longwood Lane since she disappeared. Just not in the spot they said.. Does the cave actually go under Longwood lane, and were Joanna yeates was positioned represents where she was in relation to the cave ?? I don't know...
What I do know is that she wasn't lying in the open on a grass verge on Longwood Lane for 8 days, with no-ne seeing her... (imo)
The yellowish deposit would only be know to whoever was there... Reminded me of The Flat being painted Yellow and the song by Coldplay...
I wonder why there are no images inside this cave ????
http://streetmap.co.uk/grid/353670,171500,115
http://www.mcra.org.uk/registry/sitedetails.php?id=1270
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I was viewing a video and this image of the fire service attending at Longwood Lane .....
Leonora will tell me hopefully...
There appears to be some kind of what I would say is an underwater chamber/ rescue sub
Cannot read the whole web address properly but it's something along the lines of...
www.Avonfire.gov.uk (the avonfire bit I am not sure of the rest is correct...(www.-----.gov.uk)
Leonora talking of recovering something from of the water ponds at the quarry, doesn't sound so ridiculous as people had suggested...
It's an explosive image whatever... All this for a Missing Person ,who was found lying on a grass verge??
Time people questioned what really took place... Do you not think!!
[attachment deleted by admin]