Author Topic: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?  (Read 166203 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #645 on: February 25, 2020, 01:14:35 PM »
Uncorroborated evidence gleamed from cadaver and CSI dogs is admissible in Scottish courts so I see no reason why it shouldn't have been provided by the prosecution at Gilroy`s trial. However, I also believe the jury should have been informed of Gilroy`s predisposition towards domestic violence too.

There are snippets about the case on the forum which can be found using a quick search.
According to the SCCRC the alerts should not have been admitted...what other cases are there where the alerts have been admitted...I haven't seen any

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #646 on: February 25, 2020, 01:17:25 PM »
The evidence is that the dog alerted. It's possible to make an informed decision as to what it was alerting to. If the dog has a proven track record it's not unreasonable to decide that it alerted to the scent it was trained to find.

The informed decision is the one made by grime...he said it's possible the alert is to cadaver that's all...and had no evidential reliability

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #647 on: February 25, 2020, 01:19:08 PM »
The evidence is that the dog alerted. It's possible to make an informed decision as to what it was alerting to. If the dog has a proven track record it's not unreasonable to decide that it alerted to the scent it was trained to find.

That's your opinion stated as fact again...and imo...based on all the evidence...absolute rubbish.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #648 on: February 25, 2020, 01:22:34 PM »
The evidence is that the dog alerted. It's possible to make an informed decision as to what it was alerting to. If the dog has a proven track record it's not unreasonable to decide that it alerted to the scent it was trained to find.

I think it's totally unreasonable to decide Eddie alerted to cadaver contaminant in luz. And is testament to your understanding of the issue. Grime said it may be cadaver scent...but you think you know better

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #649 on: February 25, 2020, 01:37:09 PM »
That's because the blood dog didn't alert on many so it is elementary why Grime's professional opinion was alerts to cadaver scent from a cadaver dog  @)(++(*


'False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 01:41:14 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Admin

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #650 on: February 25, 2020, 01:39:44 PM »
Yes, Davel and I have both listened and , I think I can be permitted to speak for us both, found it most entertaining and informative.
I would be most interested in participating in such a board.

I haven't listened to it as yet so it would be helpful if you could list the arguments which claim to lend support to Gilroy.
   
These can then be used to start a new thread.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #651 on: February 25, 2020, 01:46:12 PM »
That's because the blood dog didn't alert on many so it is elementary why Grime's professional opinion was alerts to cadaver scent from a cadaver dog  @)(++(*


'False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

That doesn't mean Eddie has never given a false alert...you and others have misunderstood it

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #652 on: February 25, 2020, 01:47:27 PM »
That's because the blood dog didn't alert on many so it is elementary why Grime's professional opinion was alerts to cadaver scent from a cadaver dog  @)(++(*


'False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Grime never said his opinion was that the alerts were to cadaver scent

Offline The General

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #653 on: February 25, 2020, 01:53:14 PM »
I haven't listened to it as yet so it would be helpful if you could list the arguments which claim to lend support to Gilroy.
   
These can then be used to start a new thread.
I'd have to review it. I binge listened about 3 months ago.
You're right though, the podcast never really mentioned his 'violent past'. He comes across as very convincing. There's hours of phone interviews with him and he's very eloquent and assertive.
The podcast, in my opinion, as per the current trend, attempts to inject some suspense to the narrative for the unwitting listener.

From memory, the main crux of the defence is the lack of 'definitive' CCTV, a 'speeding car' leaving the scene at almost exactly the same time frame, the total lack of forensics in the basement, the dog alerts uncorroborated (despite the car being given the Domestos treatment) and the apparent corroboration in regard to his movements to the school in the afternoon and the reason for him going home to pick something up.

The fella narrator has an annoying voice too.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #654 on: February 25, 2020, 01:59:18 PM »
I'd have to review it. I binge listened about 3 months ago.
You're right though, the podcast never really mentioned his 'violent past'. He comes across as very convincing. There's hours of phone interviews with him and he's very eloquent and assertive.
The podcast, in my opinion, as per the current trend, attempts to inject some suspense to the narrative for the unwitting listener.

From memory, the main crux of the defence is the lack of 'definitive' CCTV, a 'speeding car' leaving the scene at almost exactly the same time frame, the total lack of forensics in the basement, the dog alerts uncorroborated (despite the car being given the Domestos treatment) and the apparent corroboration in regard to his movements to the school in the afternoon and the reason for him going home to pick something up.

The fella narrator has an annoying voice too.

There was a total lack of forensics in the whole basement....having said that the rest of the real evidence was enough to convict

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #655 on: February 25, 2020, 02:01:29 PM »
That doesn't mean Eddie has never given a false alert...you and others have misunderstood it

He made many alerts not one and if you think they are all false then keep living in fantasyland!
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #656 on: February 25, 2020, 02:12:19 PM »
He made many alerts not one and if you think they are all false then keep living in fantasyland!
I think none are to cadaver...just like in Jersey...just like the alert to Cuddle Cat...no real alerts.....

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #657 on: February 25, 2020, 02:18:35 PM »
The evidence is that the dog alerted. It's possible to make an informed decision as to what it was alerting to. If the dog has a proven track record it's not unreasonable to decide that it alerted to the scent it was trained to find.
You can’t identify an absent cadaver by the bark of a dog.  If Shannon Matthews had been sold into white slavery never to be seen again a jury might conclude she’d been murdered in some grotty flat in Dewsbury, and was not out there somewhere in the big wide world waiting to be rescued.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline The General

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #658 on: February 25, 2020, 02:24:50 PM »
There was a total lack of forensics in the whole basement....having said that the rest of the real evidence was enough to convict
That's what I said.
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Offline The General

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #659 on: February 25, 2020, 02:32:13 PM »
You can’t identify an absent cadaver by the bark of a dog.  If Shannon Matthews had been sold into white slavery never to be seen again a jury might conclude she’d been murdered in some grotty flat in Dewsbury, and was not out there somewhere in the big wide world waiting to be rescued.
I reckon the bark of a dog can. Woof!
....and wasn't the dog right in the Shannon Matthews case? The couch had a dead dude on it and was 2nd hand? Not sure about the case, so......
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