Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[G-Unit]

Amarals opinion was not based on facts..
The point im making is its possible to know for certain someone is guilty but not be able to orove it in a court of law... That is a fact.... And perhaps that applies to Wolters

Amaral's opinion may not have been based on facts in your opinion, but in the opinion of the Portuguese courts it was;

80. The facts related to the criminal investigation of Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the defendant Goncalo Amaral refers in the book, in an interview with the newspaper Correio da Manha and in the documentary are mostly facts that occurred and are documented in this investigation (clauses 27 and 28 of the instruction basis) .
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0 page 30

It isn't relevant what Wolters thinks or believes, it's what he says that is relevant.

[Mr Gray]

Amaral was not a public official, but Wolters is, and that's an important difference.

Do you realise Wolters has rights under article 10...or are you only interested in those of CB

[Mr Gray]

Amaral's opinion may not have been based on facts in your opinion, but in the opinion of the Portuguese courts it was;

80. The facts related to the criminal investigation of Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the defendant Goncalo Amaral refers in the book, in an interview with the newspaper Correio da Manha and in the documentary are mostly facts that occurred and are documented in this investigation (clauses 27 and 28 of the instruction basis) .
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0 page 30

It isn't relevant what Wolters thinks or believes, it's what he says that is relevant.

Youve misunderstood the statement... It says based mainly on facts... That makes a difference.....but in fact they wete not facts. Do you really understand what is meant by proven facts... I dont. Perhaps you could explain and also explain what the caveat.. Alinia... as I recall means.. It doesn't appear in the other proven facts

[misty]

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media/137337/police-law-defamation.pdf

[Venturi Swirl]

There's a difference between Amaral and Davel too. Amaral's opinion was based on facts recorded in the PJ files and publicly available. I don't know what Davel's opinion is based on.

you really are unbelievable.  If you don't know what Davel's opinion is based on, why are you telling him categorically that he can't publicly name this person and state that they are a thief?

[Venturi Swirl]

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media/137337/police-law-defamation.pdf

I like this part:
"You are presumed to be of good character"
Does that apply to a convicted rapist and paedophile I wonder...?

[Mr Gray]

you really are unbelievable.  If you don't know what Davel's opinion is based on, why are you telling him categorically that he can't publicly name this person and state that they are a thief?

Precisely... Based on zero information gunit has decided I can be sued.. That isnt a very sensible thing to do.

If she knew what evidence I had she would agree with me..

Now who said that..

[misty]

I like this part:
"You are presumed to be of good character"
Does that apply to a convicted rapist and paedophile I wonder...?

Fulscher would probably provide Brueckner with a decent character reference!
Seriously, though - Wolters speaks with the full backing of BKA and has absolute privilege. It's astounding that certain people can't see the difference between his rights to free speech compared to those of the ex-PJ Inspector bound by a duty of reserve.
As far as Brueckner's right to a fair trial is concerned, does that mean he's anticipating being charged with more crimes? As a German prisoner, he must know that the Public Prosecutor is legally bound to consider evidence of innocence as well as guilt before any recommendation the accused faces trial? (Guilty until proven innocent in German courts).

[Mr Gray]

Amaral's opinion may not have been based on facts in your opinion, but in the opinion of the Portuguese courts it was;

80. The facts related to the criminal investigation of Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the defendant Goncalo Amaral refers in the book, in an interview with the newspaper Correio da Manha and in the documentary are mostly facts that occurred and are documented in this investigation (clauses 27 and 28 of the instruction basis) .
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0 page 30

It isn't relevant what Wolters thinks or believes, it's what he says that is relevant.

Amarals opinion was not based on facts...but his failure to understand the evidence and listen to the experts. That isnt opinion its fact. The SC actually thought his opinion was based on facts...it wasnt therefore the SC is wrong .

[G-Unit]

Youve misunderstood the statement... It says based mainly on facts... That makes a difference.....but in fact they wete not facts. Do you really understand what is meant by proven facts... I dont. Perhaps you could explain and also explain what the caveat.. Alinia... as I recall means.. It doesn't appear in the other proven facts

The proven facts are decided upon by the judge and given to the lawyers. If there are no objections they become the agreed facts and are used by the judge to reach their judgement. In this case the judge was Maria Emília de Melo e Castro, the judge of the first instance.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/ReadingFacts_21_01_2015.htm

Where does the word 'alinia' appear?

[Mr Gray]

The proven facts are decided upon by the judge and given to the lawyers. If there are no objections they become the agreed facts and are used by the judge to reach their judgement. In this case the judge was Maria Emília de Melo e Castro, the judge of the first instance.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/ReadingFacts_21_01_2015.htm

Where does the word 'alinia' appear?

That link does not explain how the proven facts were arrived at... They are obviously 100%not proven..
Alinea AR appears in the proven facts relating to thr alerts.
If we understood what that meant we might understand how the so called proven facts were arrived at

[misty]

We haven't discussed Grime's dogs for a few days and I stumbled across the case below whilst searching for something else.
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/cadaver-dogs-alerted-at-home-of-man-whose-wife-disappeared-8-years-ago-fbi-consultant-says.html

Updated: Sep. 01, 2020, 5:44 p.m. | Published: Sep. 01, 2020, 4:37 p.m.

Two cadaver dogs alerted on suspected traces of human decomposition and blood during a search eight years ago at the Cumberland County home of a man whose wife disappeared, a consultant to the FBI testified Tuesday afternoon.

Martin Grimes, who testified via video feed from his home in Oxford, England, said one of his dogs, Morse, alerted on an ax in the basement of Hap Seiders’ house on Willow Mill Park Road in Silver Spring Township during the search in July 2012.

Grimes said Morse, who was trained to detect latent odors of the decomposition of human remains, also alerted in the center of the basement, first and second-floor bathrooms, plumbing access panels and on a wool mask beneath a safe in an office.

His other dog, Keela, trained in the detection of minute traces of human blood, alerted on a stainless-steel knife in the drawer of a cabinet in the master bedroom, Grimes said.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Courtney Hair LaRue is claiming Seiders, 66, who is on trial for homicide, killed his wife, Rabihan, 53, in late March 2012 and burned her body in the home’s fireplace.

Defense attorney George Matangos is countering that Rabihan might not be dead but could instead have fled the U.S. with $3 million worth of her husband’s property, including a cache of gold coins.

Under Matangos’s questioning, Grimes said the dogs did not alert on the fireplace where LaRue claims Rabihan Seiders’ corpse was incinerated. Matangos also raised the idea that the dogs’ alerts were “false positives.” Grimes said both dogs, which have since died, had track records of accuracy.

Dr. Susan Marvin, an FBI metallurgist, testified under questioning by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Robinson that three rivets found in box of ashes seized from the Seiders home in April 2012 came from clothing produced by the firm Brittania.

A metal zipper found in the same box couldn’t be tied to any specific clothing line, Marvin said.

On cross-examination, Marvin said she could not tell whether the rivets, which had been in a fire, came from male or female clothing since Brittania produces both. She said it appeared the rivets had been attached to a thick material, perhaps denim or leather.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither a living Rabihan nor her corpse has ever been located. Her daughter lied to the original investigation team. The prosecution's murder case was not consistent the dogs' alerts.

Hap Seiders was acquitted of all charges.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/jury-acquits-cumberland-county-man-accused-of-killing-wife-who-disappeared-in-2012.html

[Icanhandlethetruth]

We haven't discussed Grime's dogs for a few days and I stumbled across the case below whilst searching for something else.
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/cadaver-dogs-alerted-at-home-of-man-whose-wife-disappeared-8-years-ago-fbi-consultant-says.html

Updated: Sep. 01, 2020, 5:44 p.m. | Published: Sep. 01, 2020, 4:37 p.m.

Two cadaver dogs alerted on suspected traces of human decomposition and blood during a search eight years ago at the Cumberland County home of a man whose wife disappeared, a consultant to the FBI testified Tuesday afternoon.

Martin Grimes, who testified via video feed from his home in Oxford, England, said one of his dogs, Morse, alerted on an ax in the basement of Hap Seiders’ house on Willow Mill Park Road in Silver Spring Township during the search in July 2012.

Grimes said Morse, who was trained to detect latent odors of the decomposition of human remains, also alerted in the center of the basement, first and second-floor bathrooms, plumbing access panels and on a wool mask beneath a safe in an office.

His other dog, Keela, trained in the detection of minute traces of human blood, alerted on a stainless-steel knife in the drawer of a cabinet in the master bedroom, Grimes said.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Courtney Hair LaRue is claiming Seiders, 66, who is on trial for homicide, killed his wife, Rabihan, 53, in late March 2012 and burned her body in the home’s fireplace.

Defense attorney George Matangos is countering that Rabihan might not be dead but could instead have fled the U.S. with $3 million worth of her husband’s property, including a cache of gold coins.

Under Matangos’s questioning, Grimes said the dogs did not alert on the fireplace where LaRue claims Rabihan Seiders’ corpse was incinerated. Matangos also raised the idea that the dogs’ alerts were “false positives.” Grimes said both dogs, which have since died, had track records of accuracy.

Dr. Susan Marvin, an FBI metallurgist, testified under questioning by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Robinson that three rivets found in box of ashes seized from the Seiders home in April 2012 came from clothing produced by the firm Brittania.

A metal zipper found in the same box couldn’t be tied to any specific clothing line, Marvin said.

On cross-examination, Marvin said she could not tell whether the rivets, which had been in a fire, came from male or female clothing since Brittania produces both. She said it appeared the rivets had been attached to a thick material, perhaps denim or leather.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither a living Rabihan nor her corpse has ever been located. Her daughter lied to the original investigation team. The prosecution's murder case was not consistent the dogs' alerts.

Hap Seiders was acquitted of all charges.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/jury-acquits-cumberland-county-man-accused-of-killing-wife-who-disappeared-in-2012.html

Hey Misty, I'll tell you what, I will bet anything you wish (maybe all the gold coins in Kyrgyzstan) that Rabihan will never be seen alive anywhere in the world.
Just my gut feeling after reading the court papers on this case last year.

[Venturi Swirl]

We haven't discussed Grime's dogs for a few days and I stumbled across the case below whilst searching for something else.
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/cadaver-dogs-alerted-at-home-of-man-whose-wife-disappeared-8-years-ago-fbi-consultant-says.html

Updated: Sep. 01, 2020, 5:44 p.m. | Published: Sep. 01, 2020, 4:37 p.m.

Two cadaver dogs alerted on suspected traces of human decomposition and blood during a search eight years ago at the Cumberland County home of a man whose wife disappeared, a consultant to the FBI testified Tuesday afternoon.

Martin Grimes, who testified via video feed from his home in Oxford, England, said one of his dogs, Morse, alerted on an ax in the basement of Hap Seiders’ house on Willow Mill Park Road in Silver Spring Township during the search in July 2012.

Grimes said Morse, who was trained to detect latent odors of the decomposition of human remains, also alerted in the center of the basement, first and second-floor bathrooms, plumbing access panels and on a wool mask beneath a safe in an office.

His other dog, Keela, trained in the detection of minute traces of human blood, alerted on a stainless-steel knife in the drawer of a cabinet in the master bedroom, Grimes said.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Courtney Hair LaRue is claiming Seiders, 66, who is on trial for homicide, killed his wife, Rabihan, 53, in late March 2012 and burned her body in the home’s fireplace.

Defense attorney George Matangos is countering that Rabihan might not be dead but could instead have fled the U.S. with $3 million worth of her husband’s property, including a cache of gold coins.

Under Matangos’s questioning, Grimes said the dogs did not alert on the fireplace where LaRue claims Rabihan Seiders’ corpse was incinerated. Matangos also raised the idea that the dogs’ alerts were “false positives.” Grimes said both dogs, which have since died, had track records of accuracy.

Dr. Susan Marvin, an FBI metallurgist, testified under questioning by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Robinson that three rivets found in box of ashes seized from the Seiders home in April 2012 came from clothing produced by the firm Brittania.

A metal zipper found in the same box couldn’t be tied to any specific clothing line, Marvin said.

On cross-examination, Marvin said she could not tell whether the rivets, which had been in a fire, came from male or female clothing since Brittania produces both. She said it appeared the rivets had been attached to a thick material, perhaps denim or leather.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither a living Rabihan nor her corpse has ever been located. Her daughter lied to the original investigation team. The prosecution's murder case was not consistent the dogs' alerts.

Hap Seiders was acquitted of all charges.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/jury-acquits-cumberland-county-man-accused-of-killing-wife-who-disappeared-in-2012.html

I guess this proves the adage that without corroborating forensic evidence the dog alerts are basically worthless as evidence in themslves.

[Eleanor]

Well, there's room for a bit of interesting discussion.  But the dogs didn't alert to the fireplace.