Author Topic: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd  (Read 30927 times)

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Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #150 on: April 12, 2021, 05:52:47 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 3 Day 1 pre-testimony debate

Before the start of proceedings today in Minneapolis, Defence Counsel Eric Nelson raised a number of issues.

Firstly, he raised an objection to prosecution witness Prof. Seth Soughton giving evidence today on the basis that such would cover extensive ground already covered by other use of force experts. Ultimately the judge decided to permit him to testify albeit in very narrow terms.

The second issue related to drug dealer Morries Hall who was with George Floyd the day he died and who fled the State thereafter. Morries gave a statement in Texas where he had been arrested on the 2 June 2020 in relation to what occurred with George Floyd including having a $20 in his (Hall's) possession. Video shown to the court previously showed Hall in the cup Foods store acting suspiciously before passing something to a nervous Floyd. Hall denies giving tablets to Floyd.

Hall has basically incriminated himself and has now sought to take the 5th Amendment. Argument ensued as to what Hall can or cannot now testify about. Suggested that testimony be restricted to what occurred in the Mercedes SUV between Hall and Floyd. Judge deferred a decision until after lunch.

Finally, Nelson raised the issue of jurors security given overnight killing of another black man by police in Minneapolis. Specifically that the jurors could be exposed to external pressures given the event. Requested jurors to be instructed to avoid ALL media. State opposed the motion saying it is a different case, basically that shit happens and that they can't change the process because of outside influences. That such an order would be unworkable. Judge denies motion as is a totally different case. Adds he will only go to sequestration if a juror is interfered with. [Note: Sequestration of a jury means they are put up in a hotel together away from outside influences]
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 07:01:04 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #151 on: April 12, 2021, 06:44:13 PM »
As we start the 11th full day of the Derek Chauvin trial, the state is rapidly approaching the end of its presentation for its case in chief. We are therefore nearing what could be the last significant testimony for the prosecution.

The court heard on Friday that George Floyd died not of any single cause but of multiple forces acting together. His profound heart disease, his dangerous hypertension, his deadly-levels of fentanyl complicated by methamphetamine and ultimately his decision to forcibly resist the efforts of four police officers attempting to make a lawful arrest.  But also, of course, that force used by police, including the subdual restraint.

There’s a second condition that must also be met in order for that conduct that may have made a significant contribution to Floyd’s death to be a crime and that is the conduct itself must in some manner be legally wrongful.  If the conduct was lawful, it cannot be the basis for criminal liability.

The State need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin’s actual conduct was a significant contributory cause of Floyd’s death AND that Chauvin’s conduct was not reasonable under the totality of the circumstances, given the facts known to Chauvin at the time and in the context of his training and experience.
do you have a cite for “profound heart disease”?  The medical expert on the stand today says Floyd had a strong heart and did not die of a heart attack.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #152 on: April 12, 2021, 07:04:57 PM »
do you have a cite for “profound heart disease”?  The medical expert on the stand today says Floyd had a strong heart and did not die of a heart attack.

Very serious then. I don't recall anyone saying he had a strong heart because that wasn't the case. He had an enlarged heart, his coronary arteries were severely compromised due to a build up of fatty substances. I believe his right coronary artery had a 90% blockage.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12012.msg647369#msg647369
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 07:13:05 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #153 on: April 12, 2021, 08:11:58 PM »
Very serious then. I don't recall anyone saying he had a strong heart because that wasn't the case. He had an enlarged heart, his coronary arteries were severely compromised due to a build up of fatty substances. I believe his right coronary artery had a 90% blockage.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12012.msg647369#msg647369

: Doctor testifies Floyd did not die of heart attack or overdose
Cardiologist Jonathan Rich earlier told the court that in his professional opinion, George Floyd did not die of a heart attack or drug overdose.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #154 on: April 12, 2021, 08:13:11 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 5

First in the witness stand today was Dr Jonathan Rich, a cardiologist at the Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago, Illinois and an associate professor of medicine at Northwestern University.

Direct examination by Jerry Blackwell.

Witness stated that he was giving evidence as an expert cardiologist, to provide opinion as to how George Floyd died. Asked if he had ever testified in a court previously, admitted it was his first time. Adds that his job at Northwestern is mostly clinical work involving patient care and teaching resident doctors. Also involved in clinical research.

Witness states that he is the lead cardiologist who oversees patients in the ICU. Involved in determining cause of death of patients. Also participates in a committee that looks at deaths and near deaths in order to improve future prospects of patients. Has knowledge of patients who die from low oxygen levels. Involved in heart transplant post death investigations.

Works with cardiac pathologists regularly reviewing autopsies. Puts much store on clinical backgrounds when undertaking autopsy reviews. Has published more than 200 combined abstracts, original manuscripts, reviews and book chapters on wide ranging topis related to cardiology.

States that he was contacted by the State of Minnesota to give his opinion as to the way Floyd died. States that he has not received any compensation for his input as he felt that his input would be meaningful. Adds that he receives $1200 each day he is away from home as a result of testifying in this case.

Witness has reviewed all the medical records, autopsy reports, videos etc. Has formed the opinion that Floyd died from a cardiopulmonary arrest caused by low oxygen level which were caused by the prone restraint and positional asphyxiation that he was subjected to. Considered whether a primary heart event or ingestion of drugs had contributed to Floyd's death.asphyxia

Concluded that Floyd had not died from a primary heart event or a drugs overdose. (Note: this conflicts with the evidence given on Friday by the doctor who actually carried out the post mortem on George Floyd).

Agrees that Floyd suffered from hypertension, anxiety and struggled with substance abuse. States that Floyd had no diagnosis of heart disease while alive. Found no abnormalities wrt Floyd's heart after reviewing records. States that high blood pressure is not a heart condition. States that Floyd had "an exceptionally strong heart". (Note: this again was based on historical records).

Witness gave evidence in respect of the video footage he viewed. States that Floyd didn't appear to have any medical problem when he exited the SUV. Saw no evidence of a cardiac issue as police attempted to put Floyd in the squad car. Saw no sign of heart arrhythmia. Observed that Floyd was restrained in a life threatening measure in the prone position. That Floyd went into a cardiopulmonary arrest. Witness adds that he checked to see if Floyd went into a primary cardio event or if he deterioration was slower. He opined it was the latter.

Witness agrees that Floyd had coronary artery disease. States that none of the arteries were totally occluded as one would find in a heart attack. Added that the heart muscle showed no signs of damage. States there was no evidence of a previous heart attack. Asked about the arteries, agreed that there were partial blockages, that left coronary artery showed no platelets. Agreed that there was a plaque buildup in the heart arteries. Agreed that Floyd's heart was mildly enlarged and thickened, it was an expected finding in someone with high blood pressure. Agreed that the primary cause if death was not his heart.

As to the toxicology report, agreed that there were signs of fentanyl and methamphetamine. Added that he found that fentanyl played no role in Floyd's death. Opined that Floyd had a higher degree of tolerance due to his opiate abuse. Adds that he saw no signs of an opiate overdose. Floyd was awake, alert, talking.

Also states that the methamphetamine level in Floyd's system was low and did not trigger the cardiopulmonary arrest. Says that Floyd's death was "absolutely preventable".

Says that being in the prone position contributed to Floyd's death. Opined that meaningful survival was low by the time the paramedics had arrived. Asked if Floyd would have lived had it not been for Chauvin holding him on the ground for over 9 minutes, witness says he would have lived. Asked if a normal healthy person would have survived the restraint, defence objected and was sustained.

Direct ends.

Mid morning break followed.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:34:54 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #155 on: April 12, 2021, 08:15:46 PM »
: Doctor testifies Floyd did not die of heart attack or overdose
Cardiologist Jonathan Rich earlier told the court that in his professional opinion, George Floyd did not die of a heart attack or drug overdose.

Seems we have two doctors giving contradictory opinion. Dr Baker, who carried out the autopsy, was adamant that Floyds enlarged heart and clogged arteries CONTRIBUTED to his death, he didn't say it cause it. Dr Rich is basing his opinion on historic clinical records which are minimal and certainly don't reveal the state of his heart at death.

I think these doctors are putting a play on words, should be interesting going forward.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 08:31:21 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Online Eleanor

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #156 on: April 12, 2021, 08:42:14 PM »

I thought it was common knowledge that Expert Witnesses rarely agree.  In fact I sometimes wonder why they bother.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #157 on: April 12, 2021, 09:13:39 PM »
I thought it was common knowledge that Expert Witnesses rarely agree.  In fact I sometimes wonder why they bother.

In opposing counsel yes but these guys are both prosecution witnesses.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Online Eleanor

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #158 on: April 12, 2021, 09:17:40 PM »
In opposing counsel yes but these guys are both prosecution witnesses.

Yes, I know.  That makes it all even more pointless.

Offline number1barber

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #159 on: April 12, 2021, 09:30:29 PM »
I watched the body cam footage i saw him complain he couldnt breathe almost the second they tried to put him in their car. I watched him resist and kick at the officers as they put him on the floor. I have choked people and put people in sleepers the funny thing about both is its impossible to say you cant breathe whilst being choked because you cant breathe and a sleeper takes seconds. i have no issue with the knee on the neck as stupid as it was right up until george passes out. If as a police officer you continue to kneel on someones neck after the person passes out you deserve some time for totally failing in your role.

It reminds me of an awful case where a girl kept trying to kill herself in prison so the guv told the screws not to interfere as she is just seeking attention. So she hung herself and they filmed it on there phones until she had passed out and gone blue and was very much dead. Nothing happened to the screws they just said they were following orders

The point is regardless of the type of role at some point you engage your humanity and stop what your doing and help the person or else you rightly goto jail. I think this point would have been when george passed out not waiting until a while after you are told by a emt there is no pulse

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #160 on: April 12, 2021, 10:00:00 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 5 cont'd...

Cross examination by Defence attorney Eric Nelson.

Witness confirms he is not a pathologist, that most of his patients are still alive. Asked if he agrees that people die if their arteries have a 90% blockage, witness says "no sir...well everyone dies eventually but not from the 90% blockage".

Witness agrees that heart attack and heart failure are completely different terms. Agrees that people with a 90% blockage may have a cardiac event and might die. Agrees that people might not experience pain as a result of an arrhythmia. Also agrees absolutely that Floyd had coronary heart disease. Explains that plaque rupturing would have a more dramatic effect because Floyd had narrowed coronary arteries.

Asked about methamphetamine in relation to George Floyd, agreed that there was a record of abuse. States that use of methamphetamine over a long period of time can contribute to coronary heart disease, can constrict blood vessels and can have a host of effects on other parts of the body including the heart. That methamphetamine can make the heart work faster. That adrenaline can make the heart work faster. Agreed that Floyd had a record of high blood pressure. That Floyd had been prescribed high blood pressure medication.

When asked if Floyd's records were limited, agreed that one's he reviewed only went back to 2018. Witness agreed that he was not qualified to speak about effects of using fentanyl with methamphetamine. Agrees that on more than one occasion that Floyd had complained about shortage of breath before being put in the prone position. Witness opined that Floyd would not have died had he not been subject to the positional restraint on the street in the prone position. Asked if Floyd had got into the squad car he would be alive, witness "am...I think my answer remains the same." Witness adds that he saw no reason why Floyd couldn't have gone home or wherever he was going that night if he had complied with police instead of fighting with them.

Asked about the prone position, agrees that it can be dangerous but not for the average person. Says that patients in the ICU are only put in the prone position as a last resort. Asked if someone can respire after the heart stops, responds that a patient can take one or two breaths for up to several seconds.

End of cross examination.

Re direct by Blackwell.

Witness explains the term blockage. Explains that usually uses the term narrows and would use the term in relation to Mr Floyd as narrowings. Explains the term incidentals.

Witness states that high blood pressure can cause death because of their impact on the heart. States no absolutely no damage to Floyd's heart muscle.

End of re direct.

Re cross examination by Nelson.

Nelson asks witness if all medical and drugs circumstances were taken into account without the struggle and restraint could death have occurred, witness responds that he found no evidence to suggest this.

Re cross examination ends.

Break for lunch.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 11:49:48 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline carlymichelle

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #161 on: April 12, 2021, 10:00:57 PM »
im not  defending the police officers but george was fighting the police and wouldnt get in the  car  etc and was  saying he  was claustiphobic  even though he had just been in his friends  car   again   im not  defending what the police      did  but they  had to try and subue george  to a degree    did they go  around it the   right  way??  no  in my opinion

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #162 on: April 12, 2021, 10:06:14 PM »
im not  defending the police officers but george was fighting the police and wouldnt get in the  car  etc and was  saying he  was claustiphobic  even though he had just been in his friends  car   again   im not  defending what the police      did  but they  had to try and subue george  to a degree    did they go  around it the   right  way??  no  in my opinion

The defence attorney has just implied that part of the reason Floyd was acting up was to distract the officers, thus giving his 2 drug dealer friends time to dump their stash.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Online Eleanor

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #163 on: April 12, 2021, 10:06:43 PM »
I'm still wondering how he could repeatedly say he couldn't breathe if he couldn't breathe.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #164 on: April 12, 2021, 10:10:52 PM »
I'm still wondering how he could repeatedly say he couldn't breathe if he couldn't breathe.

An expert gave evidence on this subject yesterday & apparently it isn't strictly true that if you can speak you can breathe.

You can still talk to some extent even as less & less oxygen is being absorbed.

If Floyd had said he couldn't breathe enough, that would have been more accurate.


Medical experts: Floyd's speech didn't mean he could breathe

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/medical-experts-floyds-speech-breathe-71701574#:
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 10:13:34 PM by Wonderfulspam »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.