Was Jodi Jones Murdered Due To Identifying As A Goth?

[Brietta]

Sorry, it was a response to the thread title. By the reference to reading other threads I meant those which contain more likely theories than just being a Goth. J wasn't killed for that. She wasn't a true Goth anyway.

No need for apology.  We all make posts which need explanation from time to time ... I'm probably higher up the scoreboard for it than most.

[Holly Goodhead]

Were those attacks you've posted links to in Jodi's neighbourhood?  Again, it would be like me posting links to racist attacks on blacks in London to justify a theory that Damilola Taylor was killed in a racist attack - you need to do a bit better than that. 

Did Jodi's clothes and hair represent "Goth Culture"  - perhaps you can elucidate on this.  IMO, Goth fashion is quite extreme, with white panstick, black eyeliner and lipstick, big scary black hair, multiple piercings and studded leather items, all black clothing, how much of this was Jodi desporting on the evening of her death?

Only a few online images exist.  One such image depicts J J with braids and a lip piercing.  I have also read she was wearing black baggy clothing.  I believe these adornments and attire represent goth culture.

We know individuals are singled out and physically assaulted as a result of identifying with goth culture as so many examples exist. 

It could be a case that the perp called out some derogatory term, J J responded in kind and the whole thing escalated.  Seems more plausible to me than L M being responsible imo.

https://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/13379720.mcdonalds-customer-sought-over-hate-crime-goth-attack/

[Venturi Swirl]

Only a few online images exist.  One such image depicts J J with braids and a lip piercing.  I have also read she was wearing black baggy clothing.  I believe these adornments and attire represent goth culture.

We know individuals are singled out and physically assaulted as a result of identifying with goth culture as so many examples exist. 

It could be a case that the perp called out some derogatory term, J J responded in kind and the whole thing escalated.  Seems more plausible to me than L M being responsible imo.

https://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/13379720.mcdonalds-customer-sought-over-hate-crime-goth-attack/

You think the nature of the attack, the grotestque mutilations etc were the result of a spat over some perceived insult?  I don't.  But - if you're prepared to believe a simple tit for tat of insults was the cause of the grotestque, near beheading of the victim why does this make it less likely that LM was involved?

Incidentally, you'll be pleased to know that Nina in coronation Street will (in a soon to be aired episode) be the victim of a Goth hate crime for the way she dresses. That's almost proof you're right, innit?

[Holly Goodhead]

You think the nature of the attack, the grotestque mutilations etc were the result of a spat over some perceived insult?  I don't.  But - if you're prepared to believe a simple tit for tat of insults was the cause of the grotestque, near beheading of the victim why does this make it less likely that LM was involved?

Incidentally, you'll be pleased to know that Nina in coronation Street will (in a soon to be aired episode) be the victim of a Goth hate crime for the way she dresses. That's almost proof you're right, innit?

I didn't say what you've stated in your first sentence.  I said it could have played out like that.  Numerous cases exist where individuals have been murdered over queue jumping, car parking spaces and garden boundaries so why not some insult? 

There's nothing whatsoever in LM's background to suggest he was capable of such a crime.  J J described him as a "sweet guy" and there's no evidence he was in any way abusive towards her. 

The pathologist was only asked to comment about this crazy idea that LM reenacted the Black Dahlia murder.  He was not asked if the soc represented a goth attack.  Why was J J's hair pulled out and her clothes removed?  Both represent goth culture.  Did J J have tattoos representing goth culture?  If so were some or all of her injuries around these sites?

[Venturi Swirl]

I didn't say what you've stated in your first sentence.  I said it could have played out like that.  Numerous cases exist where individuals have been murdered over queue jumping, car parking spaces and garden boundaries so why not some insult? 

There's nothing whatsoever in LM's background to suggest he was capable of such a crime.  J J described him as a "sweet guy" and there's no evidence he was in any way abusive towards her. 

The pathologist was only asked to comment about this crazy idea that LM reenacted the Black Dahlia murder.  He was not asked if the soc represented a goth attack.  Why was J J's hair pulled out and her clothes removed?  Both represent goth culture.  Did J J have tattoos representing goth culture?  If so were some or all of her injuries around these sites?

True, but how many of those murders resulted in grotesque mutilation of the body?  I mean, have you read the list of injuries to Jodi’s body? 

[Holly Goodhead]

True, but how many of those murders resulted in grotesque mutilation of the body?  I mean, have you read the list of injuries to Jodi’s body?

Yes I have read the pathologist's description of the injuries.  Are the injuries around sites of make-up, piercings and tattoos representing goth cullture?  Certainly J J's hair pulled out and clothes removed might support such.

[Venturi Swirl]

Yes I have read the pathologist's description of the injuries.  Are the injuries around sites of make-up, piercings and tattoos representing goth cullture?  Certainly J J's hair pulled out and clothes removed might support such.

You seem to be putting forward two motives - a spat because of an insult thown out by Jodi and a goth hate crime.  Jodi was 14 - I don’t believe she had any tattoos (though her boyfriend had an illegal one).  mMurdered women quite often have their clothes removed or hair pulled out if there was a struggle, even ones that aren’t Goths.  What goth make up was Jodi wearing that night? 

[Holly Goodhead]

You seem to be putting forward two motives - a spat because of an insult thown out by Jodi and a goth hate crime.  Jodi was 14 - I don’t believe she had any tattoos (though her boyfriend had an illegal one).  mMurdered women quite often have their clothes removed or hair pulled out if there was a struggle, even ones that aren’t Goths.  What goth make up was Jodi wearing that night?

I said it is possible the perp called out some derogatory term aimed at J J due to identifying as a goth with her responding in kind and the whole thing escalated.  Either way I think its possible the murder was effectively a hate crime due to identifying as a goth.

We do not have the full facts from the pathologist re tattoos, permanent and semi-perm, piercings, nail varnish, make up, jewellery, clothes and any other attire and adornments. 

Clothes are usually removed where the crime involves a sexual element. 

The jury heard one explanation for the mutilation and that involved L M reenacting the Black Dahlia murder despite the fact J J's injuries are incompatible with this.  The jury did not get to hear the fact J J may have been the victim of a hate crime due to identifying as a goth. 

[Holly Goodhead]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-56886887

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40628457

[Holly Goodhead]

https://images.app.goo.gl/Djn5RnxKx5z1g8GN7

https://images.app.goo.gl/FUg2pe8187Zumkb57

[Venturi Swirl]

Your theory that she was murdered for being a Goth has no  more legitimacy than the theory that she was murdered for being a girlfriend or for being female.  I could certainly provide hundreds more examples of the latter two than there are of Goths being murder victims.  What you need to provide for your theory is actual evidence - have you got any?

[Holly Goodhead]

Your theory that she was murdered for being a Goth has no  more legitimacy than the theory that she was murdered for being a girlfriend or for being female.  I could certainly provide hundreds more examples of the latter two than there are of Goths being murder victims.  What you need to provide for your theory is actual evidence - have you got any?

Can you identify cases where females have been murdered solely for being a girlfriend or female?

The prosecution was able to advance a theory about L M reenacting the black dahlia murder.  Had the defence advanced a theory about a potential goth attack we might not be discussing the case right now.  The black dahlia theory has no more credence than a goth attack by unknown individual(s).

Here's a case where a man attacked girls and women for wearing lycra

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9530459/Cyclist-sexually-assaulted-10-women-two-girls-two-days-jailed-three-years.html

[Venturi Swirl]

Can you identify cases where females have been murdered solely for being a girlfriend or female?

The prosecution was able to advance a theory about L M reenacting the black dahlia murder.  Had the defence advanced a theory about a potential goth attack we might not be discussing the case right now.  The black dahlia theory has no more credence than a goth attack by unknown individual(s).

Here's a case where a man attacked girls and women for wearing lycra

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9530459/Cyclist-sexually-assaulted-10-women-two-girls-two-days-jailed-three-years.html

you cannot be serious?!

[Nicholas]

Can you identify cases where females have been murdered solely for being a girlfriend or female?

See: The Femicide Census, founded by Karen Ingala Smith and Clarissa O’Callaghan

[Seratonia]

I don’t think Jodi was killed due to identifying as a goth. However, I do feel that some of the goth/metal music both Jodi and Luke listened to could have been important.

Does anyone know if the Murderdolls and Slipknot lyrics were ever looked at during the investigation?

The Slipknot masks, particularly the masks of Corey Taylor?
https://www.metalsucks.net/2017/05/31/which-slipknot-mask-is-corey-taylors-personal-favorite/ - Some Corey Taylor masks. The second from left was his 2003 mask.

Joey Jordison was in both Slipknot as their drummer and Murderdolls as their guitarist in 2003.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Jordison