Author Topic: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?  (Read 423 times)

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Offline Davel

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2021, 10:43:44 AM »
As you have acknowledged, someone's guilt or innocence is a matter of opinion, not necessarily of fact. I agree with the Supreme Court judges; the McCanns were not cleared by the archiving dispatch as has been claimed. I don't know if they are guilty or innocent of involvement in their daughter's disappearance, but I'm pretty sure they weren't eliminated. If CB is ever tried, I will do my best to understand the evidence and decide what I think about it. Until that happens I can't predict my response.

You already have predicted your response.  You may not be willing to accept the verdict of the German court.
As regards the SC... It would depend how they define cleared. ...when even a court verdict after a full trial doesn't necessarily mean cleared

It seems even if the mccanns we're tried and found not guilty tjst would not amount to being clrared in some peoples eyes

Offline Brietta

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2021, 11:03:58 AM »
So if CB was found guilty of MMs abduction and murder.... Would that completely clear the McCanns?

If there had ever been the slightest doubt centring on Madeleine's parents, logic dictates the emergence of an individual packing the baggage carried by Brueckner being found guilty when the evidence is evaluated makes the answer to the question very plain indeed.

Or at least one would think so.

Then one must bear in mind that there are still those who are very set in their ways despite recognising the actuality.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2021, 11:06:55 AM »

What evidence???

Just get back to me when Brueckner is convicted, or charged, or questioned even.
Gays For Palestine

Offline Eleanor

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2021, 11:08:39 AM »
You already have predicted your response.  You may not be willing to accept the verdict of the German court.
As regards the SC... It would depend how they define cleared. ...when even a court verdict after a full trial doesn't necessarily mean cleared

It seems even if the mccanns we're tried and found not guilty tjst would not amount to being clrared in some peoples eyes

Cleared, Smeared.  Do me a favour.  The McCanns weren't even so much as arrested.  And after all of the colossal effort put in by The PJ to implicate them, you might think that was enough.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2021, 11:16:53 AM »
Cleared, Smeared.  Do me a favour.  The McCanns weren't even so much as arrested.  And after all of the colossal effort put in by The PJ to implicate them, you might think that was enough.

But they were questioned as arguidos, whereas Brueckner hasn't even had so much as an informal chat with the BKA, which is remarkable when you consider the enormous weight of evidence against him.
Gays For Palestine

Offline Brietta

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2021, 11:24:19 AM »
As you have acknowledged, someone's guilt or innocence is a matter of opinion, not necessarily of fact. I agree with the Supreme Court judges; the McCanns were not cleared by the archiving dispatch as has been claimed. I don't know if they are guilty or innocent of involvement in their daughter's disappearance, but I'm pretty sure they weren't eliminated. If CB is ever tried, I will do my best to understand the evidence and decide what I think about it. Until that happens I can't predict my response.

So when you boil it down, according to you everyone is guilty of everything anyone wishes to accuse them of whatever the evidence and without setting foot in a court of law where such decisions are normally taken.
Very strange.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2021, 11:27:54 AM »
You already have predicted your response.  You may not be willing to accept the verdict of the German court.
As regards the SC... It would depend how they define cleared. ...when even a court verdict after a full trial doesn't necessarily mean cleared

It seems even if the mccanns we're tried and found not guilty tjst would not amount to being clrared in some peoples eyes

Why should I accept the verdict of a court when others don't?

The SC judges didn't define 'cleared', they responded to the claims of the McCann's lawyer, who said they were;

"already cleared before through the filing dispatch of a criminal investigation" (page 40) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.0

The judge's reply was;

"let not be said, too, that the appellants were cleared by the order of filing the criminal proceedings."
(page 70) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Eleanor

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2021, 11:34:47 AM »
But they were questioned as arguidos, whereas Brueckner hasn't even had so much as an informal chat with the BKA, which is remarkable when you consider the enormous weight of evidence against him.

A lot of people were questioned as Arguidos.  Breuckner wasn't questioned at all.  Why was that, I wonder?

It has been left to Germany to sort out and they do things differently.  For a start they don't beat up suspects.

Offline G-Unit

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2021, 11:35:15 AM »
So when you boil it down, according to you everyone is guilty of everything anyone wishes to accuse them of whatever the evidence and without setting foot in a court of law where such decisions are normally taken.
Very strange.

I think you are offering your interpretation of what I said. I have declared no-one guilty of anything.

Some people, on the other hand, are happy to assert that the Ciprianos were innocent of murder and Goncalo Amaral was guilty of libel despite the decisions handed down by the courts.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Eleanor

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM »
I think you are offering your interpretation of what I said. I have declared no-one guilty of anything.

Some people, on the other hand, are happy to assert that the Ciprianos were innocent of murder and Goncalo Amaral was guilty of libel despite the decisions handed down by the courts.

Amaral was found Guilty of Perjury In Writing.  Or are you saying that he didn't do it?

Offline Brietta

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2021, 11:41:51 AM »
Cleared, Smeared.  Do me a favour.  The McCanns weren't even so much as arrested.  And after all of the colossal effort put in by The PJ to implicate them, you might think that was enough.

I find the sceptic logic on this subject nothing short of risible.

A corrupt Portuguese cop tried to use nonsense as evidence against the McCanns (the technique had already worked once against Leanore Cipriano).  A competent Portuguese investigation subsequently overturned the slurs and no charges were ever laid.

How is it possible to condemn the McCanns without accusation and without them ever setting foot in a court of law for the simple reason there was never any evidence to justify that.

Yet some members of a JUSTICE forum make the comments they do regarding this 🙄
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2021, 11:46:54 AM »
A lot of people were questioned as Arguidos.  Breuckner wasn't questioned at all.  Why was that, I wonder?

It has been left to Germany to sort out and they do things differently.  For a start they don't beat up suspects.

Because of the lack of evidence Maddie was abducted, other than her parents insistence & a discredited sighting of an abductor.
Gays For Palestine

Offline Brietta

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2021, 11:55:11 AM »
I think you are offering your interpretation of what I said. I have declared no-one guilty of anything.

Some people, on the other hand, are happy to assert that the Ciprianos were innocent of murder and Goncalo Amaral was guilty of libel despite the decisions handed down by the courts.

In case you'd failed to notice - this is a discussion forum.

As such my opinion carries as much weight as yours and my honest interpretation of what you post is for me to decide as long as couched within forum rules.

If you are of the opinion that Leanore Cipriano had a fair trial ~ that is between you and your conscience.

I await with interest Goncalo Amaral's next book making the same claims his alleged freedom of speech enabled him to get away with in Portugal being published in English and sold in Britain.
I think we would then see exactly how a libel trial should be conducted.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Davel

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2021, 12:08:30 PM »
Why should I accept the verdict of a court when others don't?

The SC judges didn't define 'cleared', they responded to the claims of the McCann's lawyer, who said they were;

"already cleared before through the filing dispatch of a criminal investigation" (page 40) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.0

The judge's reply was;

"let not be said, too, that the appellants were cleared by the order of filing the criminal proceedings."
(page 70) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15

I'm not asking to.  What I'm pointing out is that is basically impossible to completely cleared of any crime so it's absurd to use this as s stick to beat kkthe McCanns
As regards the archiving report I seem to recall that the SC said it was not evidence of innocence which to me is completely  wrong
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 12:24:25 PM by Davel »

Offline G-Unit

Re: If CB was found guilty would the McCanns be completely cleared?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2021, 12:38:35 PM »
I'm not asking to.  What I'm pointing out is that is basically impossible to completely cleared of any crime so it's absurd to use this as s stick to beat kkthe McCanns
As regards the archiving report I seem to recall that the SC said it was not evidence of innocence which to me is completely  wrong

Isabel Duarte claimed that the archiving dispatch cleared the McCanns, so she obviously didn't agree with you.

I expect you have a cite for your recall of what the SC judges said about the archiving report?
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.