Author Topic: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail  (Read 162414 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sika

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #285 on: August 17, 2015, 04:33:12 PM »
How much time had elapsed, between the first drive past and the fateful second ?

Was there evidence of any contact between Tongo and the two hijackers, during this period of time?

If not, did the two hijackers arrive late and wait in the hope, that the car would make a return visit?

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #286 on: August 17, 2015, 04:42:13 PM »
A couple of hours, give or take. Tongo dropped them at Surfside and Dewani said he'd call Tongo when they were ready to leave. Phone records show lots of call and text contact between Tongo and Mbolombo in that time period, and lots of contact between Mbolombo and the hijackers. I cannot recall with certainty but I don't think Tongo contacted the hijackers directly. That was Mbolombo's job. 

The two hijackers didn't even get to the hijack spot the first time.

On the second occasion the hijackers engaged the help of a guy at the shebeen who drove them to the location. They were there with time to spare and one or both of them were urinating when Tongo's car came into view.

Offline mercury

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #287 on: August 17, 2015, 10:45:11 PM »
A couple of hours, give or take. Tongo dropped them at Surfside and Dewani said he'd call Tongo when they were ready to leave. Phone records show lots of call and text contact between Tongo and Mbolombo in that time period, and lots of contact between Mbolombo and the hijackers. I cannot recall with certainty but I don't think Tongo contacted the hijackers directly. That was Mbolombo's job. 

The two hijackers didn't even get to the hijack spot the first time.

On the second occasion the hijackers engaged the help of a guy at the shebeen who drove them to the location. They were there with time to spare and one or both of them were urinating when Tongo's car came into view.

How can phone traffic between these people after they initially failed to turn up though prove that Dewani hadn't arranged the whole episode.? but rather prove their own plot?
Pretty amateur of them not to get there in the first place for this rich robbery,( IIRC the engagement ring was worth £25k?  )but luckily got a ride the second time

PS Thanks  realise on skim reading you replied to a few of my posts over the last few days which I didn't answer, was a bit short for time, but will reread and reply if still relevant

PPS I hope you realise that most people don't "want" people go be guilty of a heinous crime but if there is doubt/a chance, people will analyse what is there, until they are satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt, outwith the courts if it has gone beyond that,as no one can agree with someone getting away with murder if that is the case. Opposite applies too for innocent people being convicted.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:30:27 PM by John »

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #288 on: August 17, 2015, 10:55:28 PM »
How can phone traffic between these people after they initially failed to turn up though prove that Dewani hadn't arranged the whole episode.? but rather prove their ther own plot?

The phone traffic doesn't prove anything. I answered Sika's question but was unsure of the relevance. Sika may have thought of something that no one else has.......

Sika?

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #289 on: August 18, 2015, 09:10:40 AM »

PPS I hope you realise that most people don't "want" people go be guilty of a heinous crime

Hi Mercury,

Yes, I understand what you are saying. We would not defend a character like Dewani, unless we were convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that he was innocent of all involvement in the crime. He is clearly a dislikeable, dishonourable person in many ways.

Allow me to inject a little perspective on the sentiment you have expressed. You are clearly a level headed clear thinking person and I understand that you personally do not "want" anyone to be falsely labeled guilty of a heinous crime. The problem in the Dewani case, is that many people did  (and do) want him to be guilty.

Remember that the backdrop to this murder was a wildly successful, peaceful world cup tournament in which Cape Town proved the doubters wrong. In this context, Anni's murder was a huge blow for the country and the handling of the case makes it readily apparent that.....

- SAPS wanted a foreigner to be the perpetrator, rather than local thugs.
- The NPA wanted the same.
- South Africa's police commissioner at the time certainly wanted Dewani to be the culprit - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8191642/Honeymoon-murder-Shrien-Dewani-is-a-monkey-says-South-African-police-chief.html
- The media clearly wanted Shrien to be guilty (see True (44) as the "murdering gay husband" narrative sold lots of papers and commercials
- The SA public also wanted Shrien to be guilty, as it absolved their society of the blame for this young girl's murder. In addition, many South Africans feel exactly the same as Passer-by. They formed an opinion on this murder within a nanosecond of it hitting the news, confirmation bias has driven them ever since and they are wedded to that narrative. We will never convince some people that Dewani is innocent. We know that.

We (myself and my dewanifacts partners) struggle to understand this mindset as two of us were in the exact same boat. The difference with us was that we were open minded to admitting that our intuition had been wrong.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:35:10 PM by John »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #290 on: August 18, 2015, 10:15:18 AM »
How much time had elapsed, between the first drive past and the fateful second ?

Was there evidence of any contact between Tongo and the two hijackers, during this period of time?

If not, did the two hijackers arrive late and wait in the hope, that the car would make a return visit?

Sika they went to the Township allegedly to see 'the Real Africa' (even though Anni was over-dressed for Strand, never mind a Township) on the way to a dinner reservation near Strand.  There is nothing much to see n the Township except poor people's houses and a bar/restaurant called Mzoli's which Jamie Oliver once visited:  it sells barbequed meat and the punters sit on plastic chairs under a wriggly-tin roof - it shut at 7pm, over an hour before the Dewanis left their hotel.

They didn't turn up for the dinner reservation, instead they went to a Sushi Bar in Strand (an Afrikaner holiday resort certainly not the 'real Africa').  Then on the return journey Anni allegedly spontaneously decided she would like to see 'the real Africa' again.  Perhaps she thought nightlife in the Township kicked-off after 9.45pm and the previously deserted streets would be full of life, who knows?

And we can only speculate that they didn't have a proper sit-down 3 course meal at the restaurant that they had reserved but instead grabbed a few pieces of Sushi because a sit-down 3 course meal takes ages to cook and eat and they wouldn't be back at the Township for at least a couple more hours - so might miss the hijackers on the return trip as well.

Did you see the photos I posted of the Township higher up or are they lost in the Black Hole of the middle of this thread?

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #291 on: August 18, 2015, 10:35:10 AM »
Unfortunately Passer-by continues to perpetuate falsehoods.

It is only the second (fatal) trip that was preceded by a discussion in which Anni allegedly insisted on seeing the real Africa.

There has never been any suggestion that the first Gugulethu driveby was due to Anni wanting to see the real Africa. Tongo knew that mentioning Jamie Oliver was a surefire way to get a British tourist to agree to the suggestion and he needed them to agree because his hijack was planned to occur on that first pass through. Mzolis kitchen may have been closed (I cannot recall the exact details but this issue has been extensively examined in other online discussions) but the music, drinking and partying carries on for hours afterwards around Mzolis location.

As for the Dewanis outfits being too smart and overdressed for their eventual destinations. This is much ado about nothing. Europeans dress up to go out at night when on holiday. Visit a cheap mass tourism hotspot like Marbella or Malaga and you will see people dressed up for a simple paella by the beach. There was nothing unusual about Anni being dressed the way she was. When she left the hotel, she thought she would go for dinner at an upmarket restaurant at Winery Road and do a driving tour around a few sights. They may not have intended to step out of the car. The fact that she ended up being overdressed proves nothing other than that the Dewanis amended their dinner and destination plans midway through the evening, and the evidence strongly suggests that those amendments were made largely due to the suggestions of the ever helpful trusted tour guide - Tongo.   

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #292 on: August 18, 2015, 11:06:55 AM »
Clearly, Passer-by's interpretation could in theory indicate a deceitful Dewani. The problem is that there could also be a totally innocent explanation. For example, Anni agreeing to Tongo's suggestion to see some real African nightlife.

If Passer-by's point was bolstered by a wealth of other evidence showing Dewani to be guilty then it would be a valid point. Conversely if unsupported by any credible evidence (which is why the case was thrown out), then it can only be "deeply significant" to someone who is clutching wildly for something....anything....to feed their confirmation bias.

Some of you may be temporarily fooled by Passer-by's speculative mining for deceptive intent in Dewanis words but given the rest of the circumstances, the hitman story cannot be believed to be true. Both passes through Gugulethu were enacted by Tongo the friendly tour guide, the man in control of the car. The first time he offered to show them Mzolis, a place recommended by Jamie Oliver and they drove past and did a U-turn. That was when the hijack was first supposed to occur. Then after dinner, helpful Tongo again drove them into the township where his hijackers were waiting, quite possibly at Anni's unwilling, unknowing insistence.

Even if you disregard every other point on our site, the two points below make it clear that there was no agreement between Dewani and Tongo. Passer-by will say that they contain "speculation" but every detail was agreed by all parties; the judge, the defence, and the prosecution. None of the details below are in dispute.  Don't take my word for it. Rather see what a senior judge had to say.

http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAWCHC/2014/188.html

Paragraphs below all make it very clear that there was no agreement between Tongo and Dewani.

23.1.71
23.1.78
23.1.79   
23.1.86
23.1.87

For further verification, the State and Defence Heads of Argument can also be found on our new "Useful links" page. 

TRUE (33)

On the night of the fatal robbery, Zola Tongo made two “passes” through Gugulethu, with the Dewanis travelling in his taxi. The hijacking was supposed to occur on the first pass, however it didn’t eventuate because Qwabe and Mngeni failed to get a ride to the agreed location by the agreed time. After stopping for dinner, the hijacking was re-scheduled and took place later in the evening during the second pass through Gugulethu. Tongo admitted, under oath, that he made no attempt to ascertain whether the money was in the car prior to the first pass through Gugulethu, and since the Dewanis sat in the back of the taxi, Tongo knew with 100% certainty that the money could not be in the cubbyhole. This point is of great importance, given Zola Tongo’s claim that an integral part of the plan was for Dewani to leave an “agreed” R15,000 in the car’s cubbyhole (glovebox) for the hijackers. So despite knowing that the key element of his own version, the price of the hit, was not in place he was content to drive to the hijacking spot anyway. This is solid proof that there was no “agreed” sum, and that this was in fact a robbery/kidnapping operation of which Shrien Dewani had absolutely no knowledge. Paragraphs 23.1.71 and 23.1.78 of the Judgement detail this crucial point, and highlight Tongo’s deception.
 
True (35)

Shrien Dewani did not even have the allegedly “agreed” R15,000 with him when the car was hijacked. In other words, the “hitman” story alleged that not only did Dewani arrange for the murder of his wife, but he then attempted to short-change the two unknown, armed, dangerous gunmen who were carrying out his wishes, all whilst he was still in the taxi with them, completely at their mercy. His alleged masterplan would also see him ejected from the taxi, alone and with no phone or money, lost in the middle of a township at night.

Passer-by has indeed bolstered it with a wealth of other circumstantial evidence highlighting the extreme unlikelihood that a tourist would visit this Township, including posting links to newspaper articles saying it was rare to see tourists there and pointing out what the millions of other tourists who visit Cape Town do right on their doorstep.  A small Barbeque restaurant cannot cater for millions of tourists - if it could, it would move to the Waterfront.  All circumstantial evidence could have been used in court:  for some reason Dewanifacts thinks if that if my circumstantial evidence was valid, I would have been called as a witness at the trial - which is a rather weird suggestion - ergo, as I wasn't called as a witness the circumstantial evidence isn't valid.   I think any rational person would realise the prosecution would/should have invited someone from the Tourism Office to testify some statistics about what percentage of tourists visit which attractions, and then Mzoli himself to testify as to how many tourists he gets on average at his restaurant to work out the unlikeliness of millionaires visiting his restaurant in their first 24hrs in Cape Town.

But Dewanifacts dismisses all this as just 'tourist information' and Dewani himself scoffed at the idea that he took a risk when he corrected the facts of the BBC reporter.  In case you missed the posts, that particular Township has averaged a murder every 2.5 days in the last 5 years, and in an article in the Guardian local women said they don't go out at night because it's so dangerous.

There is other evidence where Dewani damns himself. 

There were text messages between him and the Taxi driver whilst they were driving around that evening discussing Dewani leaving money in the car for the Taxidriver.  We have no idea why he would be sitting in the car with the driver next to his wife texting the driver, we can only speculate.  Dewani later alleged it was because the Taxidriver was secretly arranging a surprise for his wife.  That surprise may have been a helicopter trip.  I have provided detailed information about the helicopter trip, which departs from the Waterfront about 5mins walk from the Dewani's hotel, which has advertising all over the Waterfront and in hotels, and which takes telephone bookings and payment by credit card over the phone.  That is all we know - but Dewanifacts speculates that Dewani was naive enough to think this poor Taxidriver from the Townships had the contacts to do a 'special' trip and illegally land on Table Mountain.  This is pure speculation - and it takes us further and further away from the fact that on the night of the murders Dewani was texting the Taxidriver about leaving money in the car whilst his wife sat next to him oblivious.

Dewani also damns himself by spending 45 minutes alone with the Taxidriver a few hours before the murders, whilst Anni was sunbathing by the pool.  Despite being a minute's walk from more than half a dozen banks and cashpoints at the Waterfront, he had the Taxidriver drive a few minutes into 'the Central Business District' (recently renovated:  it used to be a no-go zone about 12 years ago, so is very eclectic with many businesses which operated when it was a dangerous area still on a long lease next to trendy boutiques and bars).  Then, despite being literally adjacent to several large banks, he changed his money at a 'jewellers' - I'll be told off if I tell you what it's like inside (it will be dismissed as Tourist Information) even though I've been inside:  it's a small, pokey, dusty Alladins Cave and looks like a pawnbrokers.  They will give you cash for gold and also buy and sell - how shall we put this - 'pre-loved' jewelry.  By law they are meant to record transactions, obviously - but obviously they don't and the owner admitted on oath that she forgot to record this one.  Apparently she changed the millionaire Dewani's dollars into South African Rand, but there is no record to confirm what took place or whether he traded cash or jewelry or how much money he was given.  It's interesting she was adamant it was dollars, which is a bit awkward because he claimed to only have sterling on him whilst accounting for money he took for his holiday.  Also at court it came out that her Assistant had made a statement to police saying she had been given gold to take to the back of the shop to turn into rands.  Gold? U.S. dollars? Definitely not sterling.  Possibly this why it couldn't be done in the branch of First National Bank next door.
http://citizen.co.za/257708/dewani-trial-currency-exchange-store-owner-testifies/

I've always found it odd that he didn't give the Taxidriver the cash for the 'surprise' then.  Or, given he was already away from Anni, just asked Tongo to run him round to the tip of the Waterfront so he could pop in for a chat with the helicopter tour operators and pay them himself there and then.

There are, of course, any number of reasons we could speculate why he might have behaved like this - you'll find them posing as 'facts' on Dewanifacts' blog.  But the reality is, we don't know why and all the witnesses in this case are proven liars.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 10:03:12 PM by John »

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #293 on: August 18, 2015, 11:14:55 AM »
Almost everything above is anecdotal evidence, which is not the same as circumstantial evidence.

Anecdotal evidence carries little weight and in most instances clouds rather than clarifies the truth. That is why it is seldom heard in court and that is why no-one from the tourism office testified in the trials of Mngeni or Dewani.

As a matter of interest; what do you consider more improbable, Passer-by. A tourist making the unusual decision to visit a dangerous township? Or a man asking a taxi driver to murder his wife of 2 weeks?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #294 on: August 18, 2015, 11:26:12 AM »
Unfortunately Passer-by continues to perpetuate falsehoods.

It is only the second (fatal) trip that was preceded by a discussion in which Anni allegedly insisted on seeing the real Africa.

There has never been any suggestion that the first Gugulethu driveby was due to Anni wanting to see the real Africa. Tongo knew that mentioning Jamie Oliver was a surefire way to get a British tourist to agree to the suggestion and he needed them to agree because his hijack was planned to occur on that first pass through. Mzolis kitchen may have been closed (I cannot recall the exact details but this issue has been extensively examined in other online discussions) but the music, drinking and partying carries on for hours afterwards around Mzolis location.

As for the Dewanis outfits being too smart and overdressed for their eventual destinations. This is much ado about nothing. Europeans dress up to go out at night when on holiday. Visit a cheap mass tourism hotspot like Marbella or Malaga and you will see people dressed up for a simple paella by the beach. There was nothing unusual about Anni being dressed the way she was. When she left the hotel, she thought she would go for dinner at an upmarket restaurant at Winery Road and do a driving tour around a few sights. They may not have intended to step out of the car. The fact that she ended up being overdressed proves nothing other than that the Dewanis amended their dinner and destination plans midway through the evening, and the evidence strongly suggests that those amendments were made largely due to the suggestions of the ever helpful trusted tour guide - Tongo.

I think you've just tied yourself up in a knot whilst trying to call me a liar.

I have already provided evidence that Mzoli's shut at 7pm - over an hour before the Dewanis set off. This is the trouble with there being 3 of you posting under one name:  you haven't bothered to read what's happened whilst you were off shift.

That's the whole darn point:  they had already been to the Township and seen everything was shut so why would Anni ask to go back later?

Employee of MZOLI's told News24 they shut at 7pm everyday:
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Murdered-tourist-looking-for-real-Africa-20101116

This report has some photographs to show you the kind of area Anni had already driven around and allegedly asked to go back to:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1329361/Newlywed-Britons-wife-shot-dead-robbers-hijack-South-Africa.html

Interesting final paragraph in this report by th New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/world/africa/16honeymoon.html?_r=0
"If the chauffeur’s confession is to be believed, then Shrien Dewani overpaid by offering $2,200. A third of that would have been enough, the reporters found."

Offline Carbon Copy

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #295 on: August 18, 2015, 11:43:32 AM »
Hi Mercury,

Yes, I understand what you are saying. We would not defend a character like Dewani, unless we were convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that he was innocent of all involvement in the crime. He is clearly a dislikeable, dishonourable person in many ways.

Allow me to inject a little perspective on the sentiment you have expressed. You are clearly a level headed clear thinking person and I understand that you personally do not "want" anyone to be falsely labeled guilty of a heinous crime. The problem in the Dewani case, is that many people did  (and do) want him to be guilty.

Remember that the backdrop to this murder was a wildly successful, peaceful world cup tournament in which Cape Town proved the doubters wrong. In this context, Anni's murder was a huge blow for the country and the handling of the case makes it readily apparent that.....

- SAPS wanted a foreigner to be the perpetrator, rather than local thugs.
- The NPA wanted the same.
- South Africa's police commissioner at the time certainly wanted Dewani to be the culprit - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8191642/Honeymoon-murder-Shrien-Dewani-is-a-monkey-says-South-African-police-chief.html
- The media clearly wanted Shrien to be guilty (see True (44) as the "murdering gay husband" narrative sold lots of papers and commercials
- The SA public also wanted Shrien to be guilty, as it absolved their society of the blame for this young girl's murder. In addition, many South Africans feel exactly the same as Passer-by. They formed an opinion on this murder within a nanosecond of it hitting the news, confirmation bias has driven them ever since and they are wedded to that narrative. We will never convince someone like Passer-by that Dewani is innocent. We know that. People like her never want to admit that their intuition was misguided.

We (myself and my dewanifacts partners) struggle to understand this mindset as two of us were in the exact same boat. The difference with us was that we were open minded to admitting that our intuition had been wrong.

I went through that same journey as well.  I wouldn't call it intuition being wrong though...more an inevitable impression from the hugely biased media reporting, which later had to be corrected. 

First started to have grave doubts about the allegations when actually considered the alleged plot in it's entirety.  It's said that it's easy to hire a contract killer in SA which may well be true.  But how many of these operations involve the organiser sitting in the same taxi as the actual killers, with the "hit" money on his person!?  They could have just turned the gun on him, demanded the money, and left.  No need to be sticking around killing people, following orders.  Why risk a life sentence when could just rip-off the defenceless bloke in front of them.  He couldn't have gone to the police. 

This together with the fact that there is just no motive for Tongo and Mbolombo to be involved, other than proceeds of the robbery.  Tongo said on the stand that Dewani had promised him future business, or further business, something like that.  Hmmm and that's why he arranged a murder in his own taxi and risk life in prison if caught...on the off chance that this foreigner who he'd never met might send him a few customers from abroad?  I don't think so.  And Mbolombo was apparently just hoping that the killers would hand him some money afterwards?   Not likely.  These clowns got in over their heads...they wanted to rip off the rich tourists but they forgot how unpredictable drunken gun-touting maniacs wearing rubber washing up gloves can be. 

Re the topic of Gugulethu etc above - I don't know every minute detail but I see Tongo as a salesman, and a conman.  He's got the local knowledge and the chit chat, it wouldn't be difficult for him to manipulate the situation. 

I'd like to contribute more but just too busy at the moment.  Good luck with your quest of raising awareness etc although personal view is that it's just too far gone.  At this stage there would need to be a public enquiry, or a judge led enquiry (Traverso!?) into widespread inter-departmental corruption.  First head to roll would be Rodney de Kock (Director of Public Prosecutions Western Cape). I think you mentioned him in your site.  He's arranging these plea deals at the drop of a hat then disappearing into the sunset leaving junior counsel to take the fall. Investigate why aren't NPA able/willing to correct their mistakes?  Criminals are making a mockery of the system, which makes a mockery of the ordinary citizen.  Police incompetence, don't get me started.  Police chief mouthing off in public, lost note-books, ignoring forensic tests, surely wrong killer, planting information into confessions (my opinion).   It would take years.

With regards to your aims - rescinding plea deals for Qwabe and Tongo, can't see it. They took advantage of the system but at least they are in jail for now.  The test is Mbolombo...he's there for all to see getting away with it.  Not prosecuting Mbolombo is the same as admitting Dewani was framed. 






Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #296 on: August 18, 2015, 12:10:46 PM »
Almost everything above is anecdotal evidence, which is not the same as circumstantial evidence.

Anecdotal evidence carries little weight and in most instances clouds rather than clarifies the truth. That is why it is seldom heard in court and that is why no-one from the tourism office testified in the trials of Mngeni or Dewani.

As a matter of interest; what do you consider more improbable, Passer-by. A tourist making the unusual decision to visit a dangerous township? Or a man asking a taxi driver to murder his wife of 2 weeks?

As always, you want to control the debate and narrow the choice of evidence down to fit your agenda.

Your natty little either/or option omits so much and should read more like:
_____________________________

What do you consider more improbable:  a tourist making the unusual decision to re-visit a dangerous township late at night which they already visited an hour earlier so knew the only attraction was shut (Dewani's version)

Or

a gay man who lied by omission when 'marrying' his heterosexual wife (and who was later found not only to have used a gay prostitute but also to have surfed gay bondage websites immediately after his bride's murder) who hired a publicist notorious for twisting the truth in the media, whose story changed about how he got out of a moving car without a scratch (and over whose idea it was to visit the Township anyhow the second time after they had already been there an hour earlier and seen the only attraction shut) who whilst alone with the Taxidriver a few hours earlier conducted a dodgy money transaction instead of using a nearby bank and who secretly texted that TaxiDriver whilst sitting next to his wife about leaving money in the Taxi.(Actual version)

_______________________________

(I put 'marrying' and 'wife' in inverted commas because they weren't legally married, it was only a religious ceremony in India, they were due to legally marry in the UK later.)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 10:15:14 PM by John »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #297 on: August 18, 2015, 12:27:31 PM »
The devil is always in the detail in every case we have looked at and you certainly have picked over this one Passer-by.   Something else, I don't quite understand is why they went through the township on the way to dinner if it had only been suggested during dinner. &%+((£

From my own experience of life changing events, I have found that memories tend to be enhanced by traumatic events rather than diminished.  Any thoughts?

I would agree.  Our brains actually record every frame of what happens but day-to-day we only 'view' every few frames (I've done separate research into this in regard to my son's sensitivities with autism).  However when we are in danger our brain analyses every single frame and for this reason people experiencing a traumatic event often describing seeing it in 'slow-motion':  they see an explosion that actually took 2 seconds to reach them slowly growing and coming towards them before they even feel it and the ability to reacts in these split seconds is why some people escape terrible events whilst others are killed.  The slow-motion effect has been exploited in Guy Ritchie films like Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, and in TV series like Sherlock.  'Seeing' every 'frame' of the trauma this way etches it in the memory more and revisiting it is what causes PTSD.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 10:15:46 PM by John »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #298 on: August 18, 2015, 01:38:29 PM »
There's got to be a plausible explanation as to why Anni wanted to go back a second time to see the restaurant she knew was already closed, surely?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 10:17:22 PM by John »

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #299 on: August 18, 2015, 01:49:02 PM »
This is the trouble with there being 3 of you posting under one name:  you haven't bothered to read what's happened whilst you were off shift.

All of us read. Only one of us posts.


That's the whole darn point:  they had already been to the Township and seen everything was shut so why would Anni ask to go back later?

No. You are missing the whole darn point. Which is that Anni and Shrien were hoodwinked by Tongo. We know that the townships are a shithole but that is irrelevant. Tongo made them sound attractive and that was all it needed for Anni and Shrien to agree to his suggestions. She wasn't to know that the 3 minute Mzoli's driveby pre-dinner was as exciting as it was going to get. So far as she knew, Tongo was a good tour guide and was recommending that the townships were a good authentic experience for them to savour.

Would you like some speculative examples of possible reasons why Anni agreed to go back later?

Tongo said "If you think Mzolis looked like fun when we saw it earlier, then you will really enjoy some of the other shebeens"
Tongo said "its really fun. Its the real Africa. All my clients really like it when I show it to them"
Tongo said "the atmosphere is lovely jubbly. You will thank me for taking you there"
Tongo said "there is a circus of dancing African midgets who only come out at night. You will enjoy it"
Tongo said "Cape Town Disneyland is located only a few minutes from here. Shall I take the turnoff and show it to you?"
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 01:51:09 PM by dewanifacts »