Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 721107 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10035 on: May 11, 2021, 11:17:24 AM »
Major incident investigations in the UK use a TIE strategy; trace/interview/eliminate. Those eliminated/not eliminated are marked in HOLMES2 by a code. The possibilities are;

1. Forensic elimination, eg, DNA, footwear impressions, fingerprints
2. Description (suspect parameters)
3. Independent witness (alibi)
4. Associate or relative (alibi)
5. Spouse or common law relationship (alibi)
6. Not eliminated.

Imo the only possibilities for the elimination of the McCanns are 4 & 5, which are not the most reliable. As the time of the crime isn't known, it's difficult to see how they could be recorded as eliminated.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/working-with-suspects/#elimination-criteria
Also, by your logic does that mean that no one is eliminated until another suspect is charged, tried and found guilty,  or are they still even then not really eliminated?  After all they could still have been involved somehow so best not eliminate them, eh?
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10036 on: May 11, 2021, 11:20:43 AM »
Major incident investigations in the UK use a TIE strategy; trace/interview/eliminate. Those eliminated/not eliminated are marked in HOLMES2 by a code. The possibilities are;

1. Forensic elimination, eg, DNA, footwear impressions, fingerprints
2. Description (suspect parameters)
3. Independent witness (alibi)
4. Associate or relative (alibi)
5. Spouse or common law relationship (alibi)
6. Not eliminated.

Imo the only possibilities for the elimination of the McCanns are 4 & 5, which are not the most reliable. As the time of the crime isn't known, it's difficult to see how they could be recorded as eliminated.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/working-with-suspects/#elimination-criteria
Has Robert Murat been eliminated?  If so why?
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.

Offline Davel

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10037 on: May 11, 2021, 11:45:27 AM »
Major incident investigations in the UK use a TIE strategy; trace/interview/eliminate. Those eliminated/not eliminated are marked in HOLMES2 by a code. The possibilities are;

1. Forensic elimination, eg, DNA, footwear impressions, fingerprints
2. Description (suspect parameters)
3. Independent witness (alibi)
4. Associate or relative (alibi)
5. Spouse or common law relationship (alibi)
6. Not eliminated.

Imo the only possibilities for the elimination of the McCanns are 4 & 5, which are not the most reliable. As the time of the crime isn't known, it's difficult to see how they could be recorded as eliminated.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/working-with-suspects/#elimination-criteria

I think it's all a bit silly... You still haven't said exactly what you mean by eliminated.  As the crime is unknown you could therefore argue that no one has been eliminated.  I would day the McCanns along with others have been eliminated on the present evidence but obviously if more evidence arises that could change.


The McCanns can't really be totally ruled out unless the crime is solved... Even then it could be said it's a miscarriage  of justice and the mccanns are guilty




Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10038 on: May 11, 2021, 11:56:22 AM »
You have relied heavily on the McCanns testimony, on your belief that they have been eliminated (no evidence of that) and on the fact that OG are not investigating them (because of their remit).

The main focus of the investigation in Madeleine's case moved to Brueckner ten years after Madeleine's disappearance as a result of information stemming from her parents' appeal on German television for information.

No-one with any locus or with any authority in or knowledge regarding Madeleine's case has viewed her parents with suspicion for a very - very - long time and are on record as saying so. (Google it!).

I think your constant reiteration of the sceptic shibboleth (whichever one fits your bill) becomes more threadbare with overuse as time progresses and serves only to reinforce their irrelevance.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10039 on: May 11, 2021, 11:59:13 AM »
I think it's all a bit silly... You still haven't said exactly what you mean by eliminated.  As the crime is unknown you could therefore argue that no one has been eliminated.  I would day the McCanns along with others have been eliminated on the present evidence but obviously if more evidence arises that could change.

The McCanns can't really be totally ruled out unless the crime is solved... Even then it could be said it's a miscarriage  of justice and the mccanns are guilty

The crime has been determined, according to Redwood, Rowley, Wolters etc etc.
Gays For Palestine

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10040 on: May 11, 2021, 12:43:29 PM »
The crime has been determined, according to Redwood, Rowley, Wolters etc etc.
Yes, sometimes clever cops are able to deduce what crime has been committed by looking at the available evidence, even if they can't be 100% certain.  Being clever cops they have arrived at the conclusion that it's the only logical, plausible explanation and we know that they have eliminated, ruled out, and cleared the McCanns of being involved (galling as this realisation may be, and despite the fact that some people simply cannot and will not accept it).
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10041 on: May 11, 2021, 12:44:45 PM »
I think it's all a bit silly... You still haven't said exactly what you mean by eliminated.  As the crime is unknown you could therefore argue that no one has been eliminated.  I would day the McCanns along with others have been eliminated on the present evidence but obviously if more evidence arises that could change.


The McCanns can't really be totally ruled out unless the crime is solved... Even then it could be said it's a miscarriage  of justice and the mccanns are guilty

I was replying to someone who thought eliminating someone was related to actively suspecting them.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10042 on: May 11, 2021, 12:56:18 PM »
Yes, sometimes clever cops are able to deduce what crime has been committed by looking at the available evidence, even if they can't be 100% certain.  Being clever cops they have arrived at the conclusion that it's the only logical, plausible explanation and we know that they have eliminated, ruled out, and cleared the McCanns of being involved (galling as this realisation may be, and despite the fact that some people simply cannot and will not accept it).

Alternatively, as with Operation Grange, policemen investigate what they are told to investigate by their remit.

Someone's remit is the area of activity which they are expected to deal with, or which they have authority to deal with.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/remit

No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10043 on: May 11, 2021, 12:57:44 PM »
Yes, sometimes clever cops are able to deduce what crime has been committed by looking at the available evidence, even if they can't be 100% certain.  Being clever cops they have arrived at the conclusion that it's the only logical, plausible explanation and we know that they have eliminated, ruled out, and cleared the McCanns of being involved (galling as this realisation may be, and despite the fact that some people simply cannot and will not accept it).

Well they still haven't shown a shred of abduction evidence, other than a sighting of Gerry, so it's not unreasonable to believe the parents dunnit, imo.
Gays For Palestine

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10044 on: May 11, 2021, 01:34:10 PM »
Alternatively, as with Operation Grange, policemen investigate what they are told to investigate by their remit.

Someone's remit is the area of activity which they are expected to deal with, or which they have authority to deal with.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/remit
Have you any examples of serving or ex-police who were told that they couldn’t follow the evidence in a criminal investigation they were part of because their remit forbade it?   Has Murat been eliminated?
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10045 on: May 11, 2021, 01:35:45 PM »
Well they still haven't shown a shred of abduction evidence, other than a sighting of Gerry, so it's not unreasonable to believe the parents dunnit, imo.
An alleged sighting of Gerry, there have also been alleged sightings of Madeleine McCann all over the world, some by people who were 100% certain it was her.  Are they all evidence then?
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10046 on: May 11, 2021, 01:42:23 PM »
An alleged sighting of Gerry, there have also been alleged sightings of Madeleine McCann all over the world, some by people who were 100% certain it was her.  Are they all evidence then?

Yes, they are evidence of wishful thinking.
Gays For Palestine

Offline Davel

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10047 on: May 11, 2021, 01:49:51 PM »
Alternatively, as with Operation Grange, policemen investigate what they are told to investigate by their remit.

Someone's remit is the area of activity which they are expected to deal with, or which they have authority to deal with.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/remit

So you don't think that when investigating an abduction one possible result is that an abduction didn't happen

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10048 on: May 11, 2021, 01:58:14 PM »
Yes, they are evidence of wishful thinking.
So not necessarily evidence that the person identified was the person actually seen.  Thank you.
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10049 on: May 11, 2021, 02:01:32 PM »
I was replying to someone who thought eliminating someone was related to actively suspecting them.
If you don't eliminate them it's because you still suspect they may be involved.  The act of elimination is the act of removing them from any suspicion of involvement.  If there is lingering suspicion that they are involved, then of course they are not eliminated and remain suspects.  So please explain how you can not be a suspect whilst also not eliminated from suspected involvement?
Mare's eat oat's and doe's eat oat's and little lamb's eat ivy.