Poll

Do you have reservations as to Dr Vincent Tabak's guilt as a murderer?

Guilty as Charged
10 (55.6%)
Guilty of Manslaughter not Murder
3 (16.7%)
Think he could be Innocent
3 (16.7%)
He is Innocent
2 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: April 06, 2017, 02:30:27 PM

Author Topic: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?  (Read 32204 times)

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Offline mrswah

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Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2017, 02:01:57 PM »
Are we NOT supposed to have FACTS to back up a PLEA????

Hm-----apparently not!

Offline John

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2017, 09:44:17 PM »
Are we NOT supposed to have FACTS to back up a PLEA????

Actually no.  That's why when someone is clinically sane and pleads guilty we don't require a trial.  Tabal pled guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter which would have seen him get out of jail after several years but the CPS went for murder thus the trial and the life sentence which will see him spend at least 20 years in prison.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 02:38:19 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2017, 08:30:47 PM »
Actually no.  That's why when someone is clinically sane and pleads guilty we don't require a trial.  Tabal pled guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter which would have seen him get out of jail after several years but the CPS went for murder thus the trial and the life sentence which will see him spend at least 20 years in prison.

Yes ... but when was he given his Mental state assessment??????? The answer to that appears to be NEVER!!! No such medical assessment was heard at court..

Not one assessment to even state he was clinically sane... Did they not check his mental health, as apparently he was put on suicide watch and put in a perspex fronted cell... Bit like a goldfish... but on a human level...

I can tell you when I got flooded I was well fed up with people gawping in my windows, I felt like a sideshow!!!


Offline AerialHunter

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2017, 12:53:39 PM »
The Joanna Yeates case fell squarely into our current investigation into the murders of a number of women in quite specific areas, particularly Bristol. Due to Tabak's conviction our investigation never started, even though Yeates met all the parameters, but now we have read all the viewpoints on here we are generating an inquiry, just a couple of folders so far with not a lot in them, but it's a start. Avon and Somerset Constabulary (A&S Const.) have known since 1981 they had a rogue killer out there but they were just quite without the ability, intellectual or otherwise, to resolve the issue, adopting as they have the functional, self deceiving, methodology of the Ostrich. The nature of the injuries inflicted on Yeates bear a striking familiarity to other women who have died at the hands of our primary suspect. This case against Tabak is unusual in that A&S Const. would have been desperate for a success, it doesn't matter whether they have the right man or not, they had to be seen to do something, anything. The next point is, "Why did Tabak submit a manslaughter plea?" Would a Dutch speaking (and I know the Dutch are excellent in their use of English) short term immigrant to the UK understand the nuances of the English Legal system, I doubt it personally. Would his command of English allow him to interpret correctly what anyone talking in police type slang was actually saying, I doubt that too, especially if you haven't been trained in R2I and are left disorientated by continuous questioning by changing pairs of officer's after many hours of sleep deprivation. This smacks of the standard hard guy, friendly guy, double act on the part of the interviewing police officers. Who put the idea into his head that his best option is to enter a plea of guilty to manslaughter, effectively removing the risk of a prosecution for murder, certainly not his advising solicitor, he'd have know that was utter nonsense. However, it would have been the police's best option to convince him that he would be protecting himself from the risk of going to trial on a murder charge by entering a false plea and suggesting how he could explain it away. Once Tabak had entered the plea he had enough sense to realise that withdrawing the plea was not going to be an option thereby risking a charge of murder being thrown straight back at him. What no-one had explained to him is that the judge in a UK court is at liberty to change any charge at any point. Another pyrrhic victory for the corruption that claims to represent justice if the truth turns out to be different.
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2017, 01:15:37 PM »
The Joanna Yeates case fell squarely into our current investigation into the murders of a number of women in quite specific areas, particularly Bristol. Due to Tabak's conviction our investigation never started, even though Yeates met all the parameters, but now we have read all the viewpoints on here we are generating an inquiry, just a couple of folders so far with not a lot in them, but it's a start. Avon and Somerset Constabulary (A&S Const.) have known since 1981 they had a rogue killer out there but they were just quite without the ability, intellectual or otherwise, to resolve the issue, adopting as they have the functional, self deceiving, methodology of the Ostrich. The nature of the injuries inflicted on Yeates bear a striking familiarity to other women who have died at the hands of our primary suspect. This case against Tabak is unusual in that A&S Const. would have been desperate for a success, it doesn't matter whether they have the right man or not, they had to be seen to do something, anything. The next point is, "Why did Tabak submit a manslaughter plea?" Would a Dutch speaking (and I know the Dutch are excellent in their use of English) short term immigrant to the UK understand the nuances of the English Legal system, I doubt it personally. Would his command of English allow him to interpret correctly what anyone talking in police type slang was actually saying, I doubt that too, especially if you haven't been trained in R2I and are left disorientated by continuous questioning by changing pairs of officer's after many hours of sleep deprivation. This smacks of the standard hard guy, friendly guy, double act on the part of the interviewing police officers. Who put the idea into his head that his best option is to enter a plea of guilty to manslaughter, effectively removing the risk of a prosecution for murder, certainly not his advising solicitor, he'd have know that was utter nonsense. However, it would have been the police's best option to convince him that he would be protecting himself from the risk of going to trial on a murder charge by entering a false plea and suggesting how he could explain it away. Once Tabak had entered the plea he had enough sense to realise that withdrawing the plea was not going to be an option thereby risking a charge of murder being thrown straight back at him. What no-one had explained to him is that the judge in a UK court is at liberty to change any charge at any point. Another pyrrhic victory for the corruption that claims to represent justice if the truth turns out to be different.

WOW........

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2017, 06:08:48 PM »
The Joanna Yeates case fell squarely into our current investigation into the murders of a number of women in quite specific areas, particularly Bristol. Due to Tabak's conviction our investigation never started, even though Yeates met all the parameters, but now we have read all the viewpoints on here we are generating an inquiry, just a couple of folders so far with not a lot in them, but it's a start. Avon and Somerset Constabulary (A&S Const.) have known since 1981 they had a rogue killer out there but they were just quite without the ability, intellectual or otherwise, to resolve the issue, adopting as they have the functional, self deceiving, methodology of the Ostrich. The nature of the injuries inflicted on Yeates bear a striking familiarity to other women who have died at the hands of our primary suspect. This case against Tabak is unusual in that A&S Const. would have been desperate for a success, it doesn't matter whether they have the right man or not, they had to be seen to do something, anything. The next point is, "Why did Tabak submit a manslaughter plea?" Would a Dutch speaking (and I know the Dutch are excellent in their use of English) short term immigrant to the UK understand the nuances of the English Legal system, I doubt it personally. Would his command of English allow him to interpret correctly what anyone talking in police type slang was actually saying, I doubt that too, especially if you haven't been trained in R2I and are left disorientated by continuous questioning by changing pairs of officer's after many hours of sleep deprivation. This smacks of the standard hard guy, friendly guy, double act on the part of the interviewing police officers. Who put the idea into his head that his best option is to enter a plea of guilty to manslaughter, effectively removing the risk of a prosecution for murder, certainly not his advising solicitor, he'd have know that was utter nonsense. However, it would have been the police's best option to convince him that he would be protecting himself from the risk of going to trial on a murder charge by entering a false plea and suggesting how he could explain it away. Once Tabak had entered the plea he had enough sense to realise that withdrawing the plea was not going to be an option thereby risking a charge of murder being thrown straight back at him. What no-one had explained to him is that the judge in a UK court is at liberty to change any charge at any point. Another pyrrhic victory for the corruption that claims to represent justice if the truth turns out to be different.

Areialhunter..... I cannot believe your post.... 

I have prayed, not that I am religous... but I just needed someone else to look at this in a different light and you have....

I don't know Dr Vincent Tabak from Adam or Andrew.... but I believe I know what is right.... And to me this is my wish... that somebody looks at the tripe that is the offical line, and says.... Why would A Placid Dutch National even do that.....

Offline Leonora

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2017, 06:38:26 PM »
WOW........
How refreshing to hear from someone seriously prepared to suspect that Joanna Yeates was murdered by a rogue killer ("Mr X"), and not by a placid Dutch engineer with a PhD! Welcome to a very exclusive club Aerial Hunter.

"A&S Const. would have been desperate for a success, it doesn't matter whether they have the right man or not, they had to be seen to do something, anything." That is certainly how it seems, when you look at the suspects who were arrested: (1) Christopher Jefferies, (2) Vincent Tabak. However, for a quick and dirty conviction, they needed to look no further than Joanna's boyfriend - who had no alibi for approx. 7 hours - a window during which she could have been killed, if only Vincent Tabak hadn't subsequently told the court he had killed her two days earlier. There is much more to this case than meets the eye, as a glance at the thread titled "The Hundred Questions" reveals.

"Would a Dutch speaking (and I know the Dutch are excellent in their use of English) short term immigrant to the UK understand the nuances of the English Legal system?" IMO this wasn't the problem. Tabak's command of English was excellent - his PhD thesis was written in English, and he had spent four years working with English-speaking professionals, not to mention living with his educated English girlfriend for 15 months. Furthermore, we know many of the forthright questions he was asked after his arrest, and they were easy to understand - and equally easy for him to answer "No comment" to. We know he did that. We also know that the (unidentified) duty solicitor who sat in on his interrogation believed in his innocence and produced three very specific statements for him to sign. She was no slouch. We know the names of the two detectives who might have tried to play "hard guy, friendly guy", but they didn't get away with it.

Nevertheless, Tabak seems to have sacked her company, Crossman & Co, after they changed their minds about applying for bail. Something fishy took place involving the so-called prison chaplain he consulted, and the lawyers who took over, Kelcey & Hall and William Clegg Chambers. In any event, I have produced evidence on another thread that it was not actually Tabak himself who entered the plea, some 4 months later, but an imposter.

William Clegg QC is a formidably competent barrister who could explain anything to anybody - including a suicidal Dutchman with a PhD. Mr Clegg could also persuade anyone of anything, if he so chose. His behaviour in this case was amazing. He could have told his client to withdraw his plea - but instead he did the opposite.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 07:52:03 PM by Leonora »

Offline mrswah

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Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2017, 07:35:22 PM »
Haven't a clue who you are, Ariel Hunter, and I am not going to ask!

I have had a frivolous afternoon , spending money in the sales. I wouldn't say I had lost all hope here, but I reckoned I could afford to waste an afternoon!

Then, I came on here and saw your post, and what can I say??????  I had been hoping for something like this, which was why I started  the thread.

I have been trying to make contact with Vincent Tabak since November, and the Prisoner Location Service have continued to fob me off. This morning, I asked for a useful reply to my request by the middle of next month, otherwise, I will write to my MP.
Not that I think my MP will be in any way helpful, but what more can I do?

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2017, 10:15:21 AM »
The Joanna Yeates case fell squarely into our current investigation into the murders of a number of women in quite specific areas, particularly Bristol. Due to Tabak's conviction our investigation never started, even though Yeates met all the parameters, but now we have read all the viewpoints on here we are generating an inquiry, just a couple of folders so far with not a lot in them, but it's a start. Avon and Somerset Constabulary (A&S Const.) have known since 1981 they had a rogue killer out there but they were just quite without the ability, intellectual or otherwise, to resolve the issue, adopting as they have the functional, self deceiving, methodology of the Ostrich. The nature of the injuries inflicted on Yeates bear a striking familiarity to other women who have died at the hands of our primary suspect. This case against Tabak is unusual in that A&S Const. would have been desperate for a success, it doesn't matter whether they have the right man or not, they had to be seen to do something, anything. The next point is, "Why did Tabak submit a manslaughter plea?" Would a Dutch speaking (and I know the Dutch are excellent in their use of English) short term immigrant to the UK understand the nuances of the English Legal system, I doubt it personally. Would his command of English allow him to interpret correctly what anyone talking in police type slang was actually saying, I doubt that too, especially if you haven't been trained in R2I and are left disorientated by continuous questioning by changing pairs of officer's after many hours of sleep deprivation. This smacks of the standard hard guy, friendly guy, double act on the part of the interviewing police officers. Who put the idea into his head that his best option is to enter a plea of guilty to manslaughter, effectively removing the risk of a prosecution for murder, certainly not his advising solicitor, he'd have know that was utter nonsense. However, it would have been the police's best option to convince him that he would be protecting himself from the risk of going to trial on a murder charge by entering a false plea and suggesting how he could explain it away. Once Tabak had entered the plea he had enough sense to realise that withdrawing the plea was not going to be an option thereby risking a charge of murder being thrown straight back at him. What no-one had explained to him is that the judge in a UK court is at liberty to change any charge at any point. Another pyrrhic victory for the corruption that claims to represent justice if the truth turns out to be different.

I've been reading your other posts and find interesting what you have said... Do you think the Glenis Caruthers case has any baring on this case?

Just re-reading about Glenis Caruthers Case.. cannot see why a young girl would leave a party and go out side walking on her own in the pitch black... someone must have accompanied her.. Someone she probably trusted..

I remember with The joanna yeates case the Police were looking at connections between the two...

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2017, 10:29:56 AM »
Here's a quote about Glenis Caruthers:

Quote
One almost felt that it was a mistake thinking this was a murder case.' The pathologist could only find a small abrasion on the throat. It seemed like an indecent assault from behind with a hand to the throat.

Wasn't Dr Vincent Tabak, supposed to have strangled Joanna Yeates with one hand????

But I do remember when the Police questioned Dr Vincent Tabak, they asked if he had strangled her from behind:

Quote
:: Whether he had been invited into her flat.

:: Whether he had made sexual advances to her.

:: Whether he had done anything to stop her screaming.

:: Whether he had strangled her from the front or behind.

:: Whether he had attempted to revive her.

:: Why he needed to put his hands around her throat.

:: Where the strangulation took place.

:: Whether he had a conversation with her.

:: Whether he went into the bedroom or lounge.

:: Whether she had done anything to lead him on.

:: Was she dead when he put her in the boot of the Renault Megane.

:: When did he take her to Longwood Lane.

:: Whether his drinking had increased following her death.

Why would the police even ask Dr Vincent Tabak if he had strangled Joanna Yeates from behind???? Surely the evidence would show how she had been strangled....

Does these questions make you ask... Was Joanna Yeates Strangled from behind?????





http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-yeates-murder-trial-vincent-275169


https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/5324888496

Offline AerialHunter

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2017, 10:30:37 AM »
Leonora,

In answer to some of your points:

At present we are looking at one individual who we consider may have been responsible for a large number of attacks. The attacks all have a particular signature, the victims are a means to and end, not the primary objective. As this, at present, is our line of inquiry I must not yet consider the boyfriend, the missing 7 hours and the missing pizza. If Yeates didn't die in the hours after arriving home that may account for the missing pizza and so on. Let us look first at our own line of inquiry and if it doesn't come to anything then we'll come back to this. The issue for me is why admit to manslaughter in the first place?? For the time being I am going to ignore this but its a hard one to find a way around.

RGDS

AH
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2017, 10:48:07 AM »
Leonora,

In answer to some of your points:

At present we are looking at one individual who we consider may have been responsible for a large number of attacks. The attacks all have a particular signature, the victims are a means to and end, not the primary objective. As this, at present, is our line of inquiry I must not yet consider the boyfriend, the missing 7 hours and the missing pizza. If Yeates didn't die in the hours after arriving home that may account for the missing pizza and so on. Let us look first at our own line of inquiry and if it doesn't come to anything then we'll come back to this. The issue for me is why admit to manslaughter in the first place?? For the time being I am going to ignore this but its a hard one to find a way around.

RGDS

AH


Reading into this I would believe that whoever did the crime and other crimes was keeping someone quite... Did Joanna Yeates know something she wasn't supposed to know .. or was she about to spill some beans????

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2017, 11:00:25 AM »
So... going with the possibility that Joanna Yeates was strangled from behind, could someone have put her in a choke hold?????

Wouldn't that incapacitate her???? And the police originally said that there were NO significant injuries!!

There really doesn't seem to have been much of a struggle and it all appears to have happened relatively quickly...

I keep going back to why Dr Vincent Tabak would move a body that many times and to me it doesn't make sense... But if Joanna Yeates was know to her killer moving her makes all the sense in the world.....


I think i'll say, someone out there knows who really killed Joanna Yeates.... I don't believe that it was Dr Vincent Tabak!!


Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2017, 11:08:14 AM »
Our new poster has got me thinking.... I don't know who did this... but there are ways in which someone could have been able to dispose of a body without suspicion...


I was trying to think of vehicles that could go on Longwood Lane without causing suspicion if they stopped...

Rescue services

Taxi's

Police

Council Wagons

Any vehicle connected to the quarry....

Maybe it the mode of transport that needs looking at... rather than who killed her... who deposited her, maybe a better way of looking at it....

Offline mrswah

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Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2017, 12:31:36 PM »
I've been reading your other posts and find interesting what you have said... Do you think the Glenis Caruthers case has any baring on this case?

Just re-reading about Glenis Caruthers Case.. cannot see why a young girl would leave a party and go out side walking on her own in the pitch black... someone must have accompanied her.. Someone she probably trusted..

I remember with The joanna yeates case the Police were looking at connections between the two...

They were, and they questioned CJ about Glenis. He was very lucky to have good friends and lawyers, as he could so easily have been stitched up, IMO. Not only would his DNA have been in Joanna's flat, as he was her landlord, but he is also old enough (and I believe, was living in the area at the time) to be considered a suspect for the Glenis murder------unlike VT.