Author Topic: The Earlier Reports Made about the case  (Read 27053 times)

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Offline mrswah

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Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2017, 08:41:04 PM »
Excellent article---I don't think I had seen this before!

Offline Leonora

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2017, 09:18:03 PM »
"I find it strange Jo left the pub so early on a Friday night when all she was going back to was an empty flat.
And when I walked into the Bargain Booze where she stopped, I wondered why she bought TWO small bottles of cider.
That strikes me as something she would do if she had made last-minute plans to meet another person.
We know she sent a text to an old friend that night asking if he was about for a drink but he didn’t reply.
Perhaps she got hold of someone else."

Why doesn't this ex-Chief Super have a name? As he has been to the Ram pub and talked to the staff, he must have asked them, "Why did she leave so early?" and they must have answered, "- Because we don't do bar food on Fridays, and you could see how hungry she was, so she went out in search of grub". I suppose the ex-Chief Super only has anorexic daughters of his own, so he hasn't grasped that a girl has to eat.

On the other hand, experience certainly counts. Years went by before it occurred to me that there could have been a mysterious 4th male whom she texted from Bargain Booze, whose response prompted her to buy the second bottle of cider on the spot, and grab a pizza in nearby Tesco. Yet your ex-Chief Super reasoned this out for himself within days of researching the case, after walking the route himself.

But notice that he doesn't actually draw the obvious conclusion - that DCI JONES ISN'T GOING TO TELL THE JURY ABOUT THIS 4TH MALE!!!

Instead, ex-Chief Super comes with all sorts of seemingly polite remarks about what the experienced DCI Jones will have done, and whom he will have interviewed, in a way that conveys that he and we know very well that DCI Jones has done no such thing, nudge nudge, wink wink.

I agree with mrswah, this Mirror article is a brilliant find. How could I have missed it?

Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2017, 09:52:33 PM »


On the other hand, experience certainly counts. Years went by before it occurred to me that there could have been a mysterious 4th male whom she texted from Bargain Booze, whose response prompted her to buy the second bottle of cider on the spot, and grab a pizza in nearby Tesco. Yet your ex-Chief Super reasoned this out for himself within days of researching the case, after walking the route himself.

But notice that he doesn't actually draw the obvious conclusion - that DCI JONES ISN'T GOING TO TELL THE JURY ABOUT THIS 4TH MALE!!!


I agree with mrswah, this Mirror article is a brilliant find. How could I have missed it?

I have mentioned before about Joanna Yeates answering a text message in Bargain Booze... I can't find the video I saw her mother talking about her trip to Bargain Booze...

Her mum had said she had picked up one bottle of cider .. then looked at her phone and went back to pick up a second bottle of cider... This action had made Joanna Yeates mum smile...

So... going to buy the Pizza had alway been a possibility that she was expecting someone or meeting them...

Glad you like the article... been looking at loads today waiting for my new topic to be approved... i hope it is...

Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2017, 12:46:35 AM »
I've been looking for something about this...

Quote
The two women had discussed their plans to meet up a week later on Christmas Eve, and Miss Yeates had also said she wanted to visit Miss Scott in Swansea that night.
But Miss Scott, who described her friend and Mr Reardon as ‘the perfect couple’, told the court: ‘I had been out that day and saw all the buses and trains were cancelled. I told her it would be a nightmare.’


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050063/Vincent-Tabak-strangled-Jo-Yeates-20-seconds-stifle-scream-arm-her.html#ixzz4gcwP0YkM

I know leonora has already written about this .. but I like links and quotes to confirm it....

I'm sure there was an earlier report about Joanna Yeates wanting to go meet up with Rebecca Scott on Friday 17th December 2010

The Trains being cancelled always threw me... I'm sure I've posted before about one of Joanna Yeates male friends being at Temple mead Station.... I'll edit this when I find it.... But I can't remember where he was going.... It's possible only certain trains were cancelled ..


Edit.............

Quote
Jurors also heard a statement from Peter Lindsell, a former colleague of Miss Yeates at BDP, who she had also texted that evening.

Mr Lindsell said he was standing on a platform at Bristol Temple Meads station waiting for a train to Reading, where he was attending a wedding that weekend, when he received a message from Miss Yeates at 8.12pm.

She wrote: "Where art thou?"

Mr Lindsell said he replied immediately and said he was at the station waiting for his train.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-murder-trial-victim-274748




Offline Leonora

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2017, 10:44:30 AM »
Joanna Yeates murder: Who did she share pizza with?
Ex Chief Super retraces last night to ask key questions

SHARE
BYMIRROR.CO.UK
00:00, 9 JAN 2011

I have tracked this splendid Ex Chief Super down. He was Chief Superintendant Dai Davies:

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2016-01-05/former-met-police-chief-and-missing-persons-expert-offers-insight-into-search-for-adrian-lynch/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223806/Who-Middletons-think-Royalty-Pippas-book-venue-vetted-palace-protection-officers.html

More power to his elbow!


Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2017, 12:49:45 PM »
Back to the sock....

Quote
Hunt for grey ski sock that was missing from her body
Jo found with no coat or boots proving she returned home
Architect was excited about spending weekend cooking and shopping
Man arrives at couple's flat and hands police sock
Police investigating thousands of lines of enquiry
ITV news banned from press conference after 'irresponsible' report

By Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED: 17:47, 5 January 2011

Question.... How does he manage to hand in the sock on the same day as the Appeal for the Missing Sock starts???

Quote
'However at the present time the sock has not been found. It has not been found at Longwood Lane and it has not been found at her home address.'

Question... how do they KNOW that it isn't her sock on the same day as the Appeal for the Missing Sock is aired.. when they cannot possibly have tested it...

It may look slightly different... but not everyone wears a PAIR of socks...  So how was it discounted with such haste??

And if they HAD TESTED it... why then show the image of the man handing in a GREY SOCK and the story of him handing in the GREY SOCK in the first place ????


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344276/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Strangled-sock.html#ixzz4gfwD3RH2


Edit.... You have to question when this man found the GREY SOCK he hands in.... the Police have been searching high and low for this "Missing Sock"... And with there powers of deduction and experience they cannot find it in the 11 days that they have been searching for it's disappearance after finding Joanna Yeates on Longwood Lane ...

So what did he do????    Magically he thought to himself as he walks down the street... Oh Look a grey sock I'll pick that up and see when it may come in handy!!!

Or... He deftly checked all charity shops and rubbish bins that the Police must have missed and saw a "Grey Sock " after he heard it on the Police Appeal that morning.... and rushed around to Canygne Road to hand it in!!!!

Absolute Tosh.... (IMO)... That is not even a "Probability never mind a Possibility!!!


Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2017, 12:58:44 AM »
I'm cross referencing various things at the moment... but came across this..   (Please accept my apology for the long post ).... The quotes are there to back the information...

Quote from Leveson Inquiry COLIN PORT the Chief Constable of Avon and Somerset Constabulary of Portishead,

Quote
The SIO made an entry in his policy
book on 29 December which reads "Christopher Jefferies will be arrested on
suspicion of the murder of Joanna Yeates tomorrow morning (30.12.10)
during the hours of darkness at approximately 07:00 hours. DS (name) will oversee the arrest and search of his flat and seizure of his two motor cars.

The SIO he is refering too I believe is DCI Phil Jones ....

Quote from leveson Inquiry Phil Jones
Quote
Upon promotion to Detective Chief
Inspector in October 2008, I was posted to the Constabulary’s Major Crime
Investigation Team as a Senior Investigating Officer ("SIO"). This team takes
the investigative lead for all homicides within the Avon and Somerset force area

He goes on to state :

Quote
As an SIO i have led numerous Homicide investigations within a diverse range
of circumstances and communities, These investigations have varied in
complexity and have ranged from Category A+ murders such as the Joanna
Yeates investigation where the offender is unknown and there is a high level of
media interest and public concern, to Category C murders where the identity of
the offender is apparent at the outset of the investigation and/or evidence can
be secured easily. (1)

So I think I'm correct in saying That Colin Port is referring to DCI Phil Jones ....

I'm not sure when Christopher Jefferies made his 2nd witness statement... but they have acted incredibly fast...

Did CJ make his statement after they had released the post mortem results... I would imagine that was more than likely...  But I cannot be sure..

What other evidence had they collated to arrest CJ in the first place???

Again Colin Port

Quote
The facts that on 31 December police successfully applied to
magistrates for a 72 hour extension to question Mr Jefferies further
and that he was released on police bail the following day, 1st January
2011, would I believe both have come from the police.

If they had successfully applied for a 72 hour extension... then why did they release him the next day ????

This is Colin Port confirming the above information is correct

Quote
This is correct. A statement was released to the media on 31
December confirming that the police had been granted more time to
question a 65 year old man.

Within the leveson inquiry Colin Port like to confirm whether a statement is true or not....

So back to releasing CJ.....  They cannot have had a match on the DNA sample that Dr Vincent Tabak provided on the 31st December 2010 .. if we are to believe that the sample on Joanna Yeates took weeks to enhance...

So what possible reason would they feel.. after applying for a 72  hour extension that they should release CJ so promptly the next day ???

It's not because they felt he was Innocent... they kept him on Police bail until March 2011...
Well again ...Lyndsey Lennen says 48 hrs to turn around all the DNA... suspects, Joanna Yeates etc...  And I am believing this more and more.... even more than before if thats possible...

It makes the Interview in Holland seems all the more suspicious than before after understanding they had applied for the 72 hour extension on CJ... Then sent him on his merry way the day after...(IMO)....
So... he was arrested on the 30th December 2010... they held him for 24 hr... the applied for a further 72 hour extension.. bring the detention time to the maximum 96 hours...

Quote
The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you.

They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you’re suspected of a serious crime, eg murder.

But if you think 72 hours... you would probably count it from him being arrested on the 30th January 2011...
When in fact the 72 hours start from the 31st January 2011...

So when it's reported in the papers .. they get the information around midnight...(IMO).. because the minutes they go to press.. the release date in the paper becomes the 2nd January 2011.... when in actual fact CJ was released on the 1st January 2011..  That info has come from the mouth/hand of Colin Port!!

And here we have been hoodwinked again.....

Quote
Mark Townsend
@townsendmark
Sunday 2 January 2011 00.39 GMT
From the Guardian...  Time 39 minutes past midnight...

Here's one report bang on Midnight!!

Quote
Joanna murder: landlord released on police bail
Christopher Jefferies released as victim's family expresses confidence that police will find her killer
By Andrew McCorkell Sunday 2 January 2011 00:00 GMT

The article goes on to say.....

Quote
The retired schoolteacher arrested in connection with the murder of Joanna Yeates was let go last night after being questioned by police for three days. Christopher Jefferies, 65, was released on police bail, pending further inquiries, more than 60 hours after his arrest on Thursday morning at his flat in the Clifton area of Bristol.


What is more than 60 hours after his arrest ??
Everyone is used to a 72 hour detention.. but maybe not everyone would realise they had the power to hold him for 96 hours... And when everyone reads the papers in the morning they believe that CJ was released on the 2nd January 2010

I wonder why they would want people to think that ?? I always got confused on the date he was released because I looked at the date of the papers articles...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-murder-landlord-released-on-police-bail-2174155.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/01/chris-jefferies-released-on-bail

https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/how-long-you-can-be-held-in-custody

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Witness-Statement-of-DCI-Phillip-Jones.pdf

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Witness-Statement-of-Chief-Constable-Colin-Port.pdf

Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2017, 01:33:05 AM »
This report became slightly more helpful in a way I did not expect....

Quote
AN EX-HEADMASTER of the college where Chris Jefferies taught English leapt to his defence yesterday as he faces his fourth day in custody on ­suspicion of murdering landscape architect Joanna Yeates.

By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Jan 2, 2011

Quote
“I can quite believe that under cross examination he would give confusing answers because he is a bit of a nutty professor, you might say, always wanting to qualify any statements he makes for fear of getting it wrong,” he said.

And there goes your answer for the possible reason that they did not call CJ as a witness in court..... He might have put them correct about a few thing!!!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/220620/Jefferies-not-a-killer-says-former-head

Offline Leonora

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2017, 02:16:23 PM »
...
I'm not sure when Christopher Jefferies made his 2nd witness statement... but they have acted incredibly fast...

Did CJ make his statement after they had released the post mortem results... I would imagine that was more than likely...  But I cannot be sure..
This is good.

CJ telephoned the police with the essence of his 2nd witness statement early on the evening of the Tuesday, shortly after Joanna's parents had made their first tearful TV appeal. At breakfast time next day (22nd Dec.) an unnamed detective called on him to take this statement on paper. This was well before her body was found.

Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2017, 02:36:00 PM »
This is good.

CJ telephoned the police with the essence of his 2nd witness statement early on the evening of the Tuesday, shortly after Joanna's parents had made their first tearful TV appeal. At breakfast time next day (22nd Dec.) an unnamed detective called on him to take this statement on paper. This was well before her body was found.

So what reason did they have to ARREST him in the First place???? They knew he had access to all the Flats and that he also had his second witness statement before she was found...

So it took them 2 to 3 days after determining her cause of death to decide to arrest him without anymore evidence than they had by the 22nd of December 2010..

Must have been that little CCTV of a car going over Clifton suspension bridge.... But even that wouldn't really be enough!!!

That must be DC Karen Thomas... I say that because the searches of Dr Vincent Tabak are incorrect in my opinion and she hadn't visited Dr Vincent Tabak... They all had been visited early.... She wasn't getting a second witness statement of Dr Vincent tabak at this time..

Quote
Tabak left work at 5.06pm \on 22 Dec 2010
and at home he Googled
‘Los Angeles murder case’
At Line 305 of the prosecution chart
PC Karen Thomas went to 44 Canynge Road to search

Why would she be searching Tabak's house on the 22nd December ??? I thought that this must be CJ....!!!
Also... Dr Vincent Tabak didn't finish work till after 6:00pm..

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf



Offline Leonora

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2017, 04:56:44 PM »
So what reason did they have to ARREST him in the First place???? They knew he had access to all the Flats and that he also had his second witness statement before she was found...

So it took them 2 to 3 days after determining her cause of death to decide to arrest him without anymore evidence than they had by the 22nd of December 2010..

Must have been that little CCTV of a car going over Clifton suspension bridge.... But even that wouldn't really be enough!!!

That must be DC Karen Thomas... I say that because the searches of Dr Vincent Tabak are incorrect in my opinion and she hadn't visited Dr Vincent Tabak... They all had been visited early.... She wasn't getting a second witness statement of Dr Vincent tabak at this time..

Why would she be searching Tabak's house on the 22nd December ??? I thought that this must be CJ....!!!
Also... Dr Vincent Tabak didn't finish work till after 6:00pm..

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf
The public has never been told the grounds on which CJ was arrested. I personally think that the media ought to demand it, both from himself and from the police, since he has enjoyed so much publicity. But that is baying for the moon. As you yourself finally seem to have acknowledged, however, his 2nd witness statement is a ticking bomb shrouded in secrecy that would expose the entire case for what it is. I personally think that the involvement of CJ was expressly intended to silence him and prevent his 2nd witness statement from ever becoming public.

But apart from that, you have put your finger on the search of VT's and TM's flat. The jury heard VT warning TM in an e-mail on Thursday 23rd Dec that their flat was going to be searched "in case there was a body in one of the drawers". It always puzzled me how they could both spend the day at work, then be present for a visit from a search team, then drive to Cambridge in time for dinner with the Morsons. But obviously, they were told that the search, courtesy of the landlord's keys, would take place AFTER VT wearing his black coat, and TM wearing her bobble hat, had left for Cambridge, with the Dell laptop. There is no knowing what DC Thomas might have found rummaging in their drawers, since nothing was ever reported as having been found.

Offline AerialHunter

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2017, 08:31:05 PM »
The public has never been told the grounds on which CJ was arrested. I personally think that the media ought to demand it, both from himself and from the police, since he has enjoyed so much publicity. But that is baying for the moon. As you yourself finally seem to have acknowledged, however, his 2nd witness statement is a ticking bomb shrouded in secrecy that would expose the entire case for what it is. I personally think that the involvement of CJ was expressly intended to silence him and prevent his 2nd witness statement from ever becoming public.

But apart from that, you have put your finger on the search of VT's and TM's flat. The jury heard VT warning TM in an e-mail on Thursday 23rd Dec that their flat was going to be searched "in case there was a body in one of the drawers". It always puzzled me how they could both spend the day at work, then be present for a visit from a search team, then drive to Cambridge in time for dinner with the Morsons. But obviously, they were told that the search, courtesy of the landlord's keys, would take place AFTER VT wearing his black coat, and TM wearing her bobble hat, had left for Cambridge, with the Dell laptop. There is no knowing what DC Thomas might have found rummaging in their drawers, since nothing was ever reported as having been found.

You might find that the police arrested CJ because of several factors all coming together. First he was in the vicinity, second, he had access to the flat and lastly if anything was admitted to the police whilst the suspect was not under caution then the evidence is invalid. Have a look at what happened to Steve Fulcher, a well respected copper who made a procedural error that cost him his whole career. They were just being over careful not to fall foul of PACE.
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline Leonora

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2017, 09:35:52 PM »
You might find that the police arrested CJ because of several factors all coming together. First he was in the vicinity, second, he had access to the flat and lastly if anything was admitted to the police whilst the suspect was not under caution then the evidence is invalid. Have a look at what happened to Steve Fulcher, a well respected copper who made a procedural error that cost him his whole career. They were just being over careful not to fall foul of PACE.
EDIT:
The full content of Christopher Jefferies's 2nd witness statement has never been made public. This means that it MUST contain evidence that both he and the police want to hide. Your suggestion that this might include an admission, or hint, of some illegal act that he had committed, had never crossed my mind. This cannot be ruled out, though most of us believe him to be squeaky clean.

Your comparison with the case of Christopher Halliwell disheartens me, as I don't think there is any legitimate comparison to be made! I do not see any officer with Steve Fulcher's integrity on the list of those participating in Operation Braid. Fulcher was in a catch-22 dilemma, and the full facts of the Halliwell case have emerged. This doesn't mean that the provision of PACE are necessarily bad - for every unspeakable criminal like Halliwell, there are hundreds of suspects who need the protection that PACE gives.

Normally, the public would not be entitled to know the reasons why a person is legitimately made a suspect initially but subsequently fully exonerated by the police without being charged. However, the exceptional circumstance of Christopher Jefferies's arrest and its aftermath do entitle the public to know the facts. I also know that this is not going to happen, because the public can never be told the real reason why the landlord was arrested.

The forensic scientists knew very well, as soon as he was released on bail, that the police had a hidden agenda, because, unlike the general public, they knew that they had found no DNA or other forensic evidence to justify his arrest. They must also have worked out the reasons for his arrest that you have listed. There are good grounds to believe that they at once put pressure on the police to their own commercial advantage.

EDIT: Or did the scientists find CJ's DNA where it shouldn't have been, but knew that the police could not reveal this because they had not cautioned him when he had offered them his 2nd witness statement? We cannot know.

Some of us are confident that DC Karen Thomas violated PACE by her failure to caution VT at Schiphol. Was it her intention to evade the provisions of PACE by interviewing him outside the UK's jurisdiction? As far as I know, the obligation to caution a suspect has become a European Human Rights requirement.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:44:58 AM by Leonora »

Offline [...]

Re: The Earlier Reports Made about the case
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2017, 08:46:15 PM »

Normally, the public would not be entitled to know the reasons why a person is legitimately made a suspect initially but subsequently fully exonerated by the police without being charged. However, the exceptional circumstance of Christopher Jefferies's arrest and its aftermath do entitle the public to know the facts. I also know that this is not going to happen, because the public can never be told the real reason why the landlord was arrested.


The question should be put to the Police... Did they ever enter Dr Vincent Tabak's Flat whilst he was away from it and before he was arrested ??

Seeing as Tanja and Dr Vincent Tabak were not at their Flat from the 23rd December 2010....

(IMO).. I think it's feasible that they entered all of the flats owned by CJ before they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak...

What Police Force gets the Neighbours to move whilst they are conducting a Murder Enquiry??

Why should the Police make it difficult For Dr Vincent Tabak and Tanja Morson to go about there lawful business??

The forensic officers were going all around the building ..Instead of using CJ entrance to his Flat and Joanna Yeats "Private Entrance to her Flat!

The Occupants of Flat 2 should have had clear access to there Flat made available to them.. whilst the Police carried out there business...


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