Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.

[puglove]

Now that the circumstances surrounding the events at WHF on that fateful night have been established I look forward to a proper documentary being made which will end the speculation for ever.  Bamber must not be allowed to get away with this fiasco indefinitely.   

I don't think that there is enough interest in Bamber to justify another documentary, David. The last one achieved absolutely b....r all.

[simon]

Now that the circumstances surrounding the events at WHF on that fateful night have been established I look forward to a proper documentary being made which will end the speculation for ever.  Bamber must not be allowed to get away with this fiasco indefinitely.   

I don't think that there is enough interest in Bamber to justify another documentary, David. The last one achieved absolutely b....r all.

Quite agree hun.     Hes toasted cheese by the looks of it fantasies and all.   

[Padgates staff]

I do think there is room for a documentary (albeit, it's never going to happen) and I think it should be 60 minutes in length, half telling people how he did it and half for the defense and see what people make of it. There hasn't really been what anyone could call a decent documentary done about this case, the crimes that shook britain episode never really showed people how he did it and then we had a real crime which I cant remember seeing that episode and then another concerning his sentance being in 'doubt'. All what I've seen has been piss poor.

[puglove]

Now that the circumstances surrounding the events at WHF on that fateful night have been established I look forward to a proper documentary being made which will end the speculation for ever.  Bamber must not be allowed to get away with this fiasco indefinitely.   

I don't think that there is enough interest in Bamber to justify another documentary, David. The last one achieved absolutely b....r all.

Quite agree hun.     Hes toasted cheese by the looks of it fantasies and all.   

Maybe a documentary might be a good idea, on second thoughts. This forum could put some questions to him, I'm sure that we could all think of some pertinent ones. Like....why didn't he attend his patents' memorial service, considering how much he doted on them? No photo opportunities for his "sad orphan" face, I suppose.

[insider]

I do think there is room for a documentary (albeit, it's never going to happen) and I think it should be 60 minutes in length, half telling people how he did it and half for the defense and see what people make of it. There hasn't really been what anyone could call a decent documentary done about this case, the crimes that shook britain episode never really showed people how he did it and then we had a real crime which I cant remember seeing that episode and then another concerning his sentance being in 'doubt'. All what I've seen has been piss poor.

Its already started Joanne.   

[puglove]

I do think there is room for a documentary (albeit, it's never going to happen) and I think it should be 60 minutes in length, half telling people how he did it and half for the defense and see what people make of it. There hasn't really been what anyone could call a decent documentary done about this case, the crimes that shook britain episode never really showed people how he did it and then we had a real crime which I cant remember seeing that episode and then another concerning his sentance being in 'doubt'. All what I've seen has been piss poor.

Its already started Joanne.   

Has the family agreed to it, insider?

[insider]

I do think there is room for a documentary (albeit, it's never going to happen) and I think it should be 60 minutes in length, half telling people how he did it and half for the defense and see what people make of it. There hasn't really been what anyone could call a decent documentary done about this case, the crimes that shook britain episode never really showed people how he did it and then we had a real crime which I cant remember seeing that episode and then another concerning his sentance being in 'doubt'. All what I've seen has been piss poor.

Its already started Joanne.   

Has the family agreed to it, insider?

It's at an early stage I believe Shona but location doesn't appear to be an issue.

[Myster]

I do think there is room for a documentary (albeit, it's never going to happen) and I think it should be 60 minutes in length, half telling people how he did it and half for the defense and see what people make of it. There hasn't really been what anyone could call a decent documentary done about this case, the crimes that shook britain episode never really showed people how he did it and then we had a real crime which I cant remember seeing that episode and then another concerning his sentance being in 'doubt'. All what I've seen has been piss poor.

Its already started Joanne.   

I've got to admire the way you keep us all in suspenders.... it's like a twenty-first century "What's My Line ?"

Does the analysis and location concentrate on White House Farm, or are we talking more about the antipodean adventures?

Is there anything that we don't already know going to be revealed?

Has B***t C*****s agreed to take part, and/or are interviews with former officers on the cards?

(crosses fingers hoping to get a non-confuzzling reply without a wink)

[Matthew Wyse]

I do think there is room for a documentary (albeit, it's never going to happen) and I think it should be 60 minutes in length, half telling people how he did it and half for the defense and see what people make of it. There hasn't really been what anyone could call a decent documentary done about this case, the crimes that shook britain episode never really showed people how he did it and then we had a real crime which I cant remember seeing that episode and then another concerning his sentance being in 'doubt'. All what I've seen has been piss poor.

Its already started Joanne.   

I've got to admire the way you keep us all in suspenders.... it's like a twenty-first century "What's My Line ?"

Does the analysis and location concentrate on White House Farm, or are we talking more about the antipodean adventures?

Is there anything that we don't already know going to be revealed?

Has B***t C*****s agreed to take part, and/or are interviews with former officers on the cards?

(crosses fingers hoping to get a non-confuzzling reply without a wink)

By the looks of it Brett has disappeared into the Australian bush.

[Myster]

I personally don't find the crimes hearts and coronets site factual,but that is just my opinion.

Actually, it is reasoned and fairly accurate account of the White House Farm murders, IMHO
The author only reveals himself as Israel Rank (posted by Connedro), a pseudonym based on the name of a novel from which the film 'Kind Hearts and Coronets' was made.

His bibliography includes a reference to the following transcript taken from Total Essex (online news) :-
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MALDON: Detective rejects new evidence 'Bambi' went 'berserk' as farcical

Thursday, August 12, 2010

CLAIMS of vital new evidence that could clear Jeremy Bamber of five horrific murders have been dismissed by the former detective at the heart of the investigation as "farcical".

Bamber is reported to have uncovered a police phone log that he hopes will show he was innocent of the shooting deaths of five members of his family on August 7, 1985.

Reports in a national newspaper suggest the missing phone log shows Bamber's adoptive father Nevill, 61 – who died with his wife June, Bamber's adopted model sister Sheila "Bambi" Caffell and her six-year-old twin boys – called police at 3.26am to alert them that Sheila had gone berserk with a gun.

It was ten minutes ahead of Jeremy Bamber's call to the police station at Chelmsford – timed in a log at 3.36am – in which he said his father had called him and also claimed Sheila had gone berserk.

But former detective sergeant Stan Jones, a 30-year veteran of the force, said the note of the timing was a mistake and there was only one call.

"All this came out in the original Chelmsford Crown Court trial," he told the Chronicle. "It is irrelevant.

"The only person who telephoned the police was Jeremy Bamber. There is no way his father phoned. To suggest it is farcical," said Mr Jones, who still lives in the Maldon area.

Although the logs are said to have been uncovered by Bamber sorting through 100,000 pieces of paper in his cell at Full Sutton Prison near York, Mr Jones said that all the paperwork, including statements that were not used in the trial, were given to the defence.

The family died in White House Farm, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, in a massacre that has become notorious worldwide.

Bamber, now 50 and serving a whole life sentence, has always protested his innocence and says Sheila, who suffered from schizophrenia, was responsible.

New evidence is being examined by the Criminal Cases Review Commission to see whether there should be a third appeal after Bamber's conviction in 1986, but a decision is not expected for some time.

Mr Jones, now 71, said it came out at the trial that Jeremy had even telephoned his girlfriend Julie Mugford at around 3am – before the call to the police – to tell her "something had happened at the farm."

At first, police did think Sheila, 28, had carried out the shootings before turning the gun on herself.

But they switched the focus of the investigation a month later when Bamber's girlfriend Julie Mugford came forward with vital new information and told them Jeremy had discussed killing his family.

Mr Jones said he was always sceptical of Bamber's innocence and raised his concerns at a meeting of detectives.

"On the second day after the shooting I spoke out and said it was Bamber who did it. I was ostracised and (I) spent a month of hell.

"When I chatted to Bamber I didn't get the reaction of someone who had lost all his family. On the day of the discovery I was chatting to him at his home in Goldhanger when Julie turns up."

As the couple spoke he thought he heard Bamber laugh.

"I thought 'was that a laugh or a cough' and later she confirmed it was a laugh and Jeremy said 'what an actor I am'."

Mr Jones said: "I knew the family were not happy and I was not happy."

He took possession of what became vital evidence, a silencer found in a cupboard, on which he noticed red paint stains and blood.

Mr Jones said the red paint came front the home's mantelpiece where he noticed scratches on the underside, scratches which were later vital in Bamber's conviction.

In February this year, a forensic expert claimed new photographic evidence would clear Bamber.

During Bamber's trial the jury was shown a close-up image of the scratch marks allegedly made by a silencer fitted to a .22 Anschutz semi-automatic rifle.

Prosecution lawyers said the marks were made during a violent struggle between tenant farmer Nevill and Bamber.

However, the forensic expert's analysis of negatives of early images, some never used in evidence, found no trace of the scratch marks.

Bamber's expert claimed the photo shown to the jury was taken 34 days after the murders.

Sheila was found upstairs with the .22 gun with no silencer. She had been shot twice.

Mr Jones pointed out that her manicured fingernails were still intact, but the killer would have had to have reloaded the gun at least twice.

Sheila's blood was also found in the silencer, but it would have been impossible for her to shoot herself with it attached as she wouldn't have been able to reach the trigger.

Mr Jones said there was a pile of circumstantial evidence which eventually pushed the detectives to their conclusion.

"Bamber consistently presents material which has already been discussed and adjudicated on in court and appeal hearings.

"It seems wrong to me that he should be allowed an appeal on the recent things he has mentioned.

"On top of all this he causes upset to the Bamber relatives as a result of his continued claims."
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This is the first time I've seen any recent direct comments by Stan Jones

[goatboy]

The Crime Hearts and Coronets piece is probably one of the best articles I have read on the Bamber case. Though for an impartial, balanced, detailed and unbiased piece you can't beat the Wikipedia article. I can't believe people think Starryian and Steve_UK are one and the same. The only comparison is that they both believe Bamber to be guilty. I actually think Steve is an intelligent poster but why he continues to bang his head against the wall on the blue forum I have no idea. My only criticism is he does take a lot of artistic licence with his posts. But that hardly makes him unique over there. Who was Starryian on blue? Why was he banned?

[starryian]

Isn't the author of that site Steve_uk? Or better known on this forum as starryian? It appears that he has had many of his theories scuppered on the JB forum,by some of the more knowledgeable posters! If it suits you to believe his less than factual account,then that is your choice I guess.Personally,I prefer to work with the facts of the case!

And just what is your idea of 'facts' then erm....'Cheryl'? We are all waiting in anticipation.

[starryian]

Isn't the author of that site Steve_uk? Or better known on this forum as starryian? It appears that he has had many of his theories scuppered on the JB forum,by some of the more knowledgeable posters! If it suits you to believe his less than factual account,then that is your choice I guess.Personally,I prefer to work with the facts of the case!

Starryian is banned from the blue forum. We deal with the facts of the case on this forum !!

I don't think that Steve UK and Starryian are the same posters although both are convinced of Bamber's guilt. Starryian's analysis always seemed considered and logical but Steve gets carried away with his own inventive interpretation particularly in relation to things like Sheila's personality, Nevill and June , other members of the extended family etc . Some of his posting is highly inaccurate and at times just as defamatory and offensive as some of the " We love Jeremy " brigade. For once I have to actually agree with the likes of Lookout,
Patti, Lugg etc that Steve seems to draw heavily on books written about the case and then seems to extrapolate from these.   

Dillon, you are spot on. I am not nor have ever been 'steveuk' This was bandied about simply because we seem to both believe in Bamber's guilt. In short, it was a transparent and immature smear tactic by the 'colluded and deluded' over on the blue forum in order to discredit any views on the case they dont share. Your intuitive grasp of exactly what's going on is excellent Dillon.

[starryian]

The Crime Hearts and Coronets piece is probably one of the best articles I have read on the Bamber case. Though for an impartial, balanced, detailed and unbiased piece you can't beat the Wikipedia article. I can't believe people think Starryian and Steve_UK are one and the same. The only comparison is that they both believe Bamber to be guilty. I actually think Steve is an intelligent poster but why he continues to bang his head against the wall on the blue forum I have no idea. My only criticism is he does take a lot of artistic licence with his posts. But that hardly makes him unique over there. Who was Starryian on blue? Why was he banned?

I was banned Goatboy for posting views of Bamber's guilt that they simply did not want to hear...i.e the truth. I would not for one minute go along with their laughable scenarios nor shameful, disgusting and unfounded accusations about Sheila or crackpot theories orchestrated simply to protect a clearly guilty psychopathic, child-murderer. True-to-form the forum that likes to promote the fact that it has balanced views on both sides' is simply a lie. The scenario usually goes like this; when you start posting views which contradict theirs, they start to get nasty (I personally received rather threatening and accusatory messages from their so-called 'moderators' threatening a ban virtually when I was verciferously defending a point - which they euphemistically call 'goading') They then try to sideline you and start accusing you of subversion, then the inevitable happens - one of the cronies in charge of the site promptly bans you and then they group together and gloat over it. Sychophantic, inarticulate and biased numpties such a Grahame Belton, Roch and an idiot called 'Martin regularly trawl the pages of the forum surreptitiously bullying anyone that disagrees with them. The site is nothing more than an illusion and a joke. Manned by sychophantic, self-absorbed cronies only interested in sharing and inventing deluded theories. The site has lost any modicum of respect it ever had. Some of the more astute posters have sensibly deserted the forum and have come to view it with scorn. The die-hard such as those mentioned above are now so completely deluded that if Commander-In-Thief Mike Tesko said that the world would end tomorrow they would ask in unison "at what time". Put into it's crudest terms, all Tesko has to do is fart and they would crawl up and take a crap.
On a similar note, I can say for the record, with hand on heart that I have never been 'steveuk' He is a very good poster from what I have read. But our views are somewhat different in many issues.

[goatboy]

That's right Ian. Why they vociferously defend Mike in spite of his constant BS, but worse his foul mouthed ranting when someone sees through his lies or disagrees with him, is a mystery. If you are pressed about a particular issue and you feel the need to become abusive I think it is pretty clear you have lost the argument. I must admit when I first found the blue forum and noted his attention to detail and knowledge about the minutiae of the case I was very impressed. However, not long afterwards his comments about having evidence that would prove Jeremy's innocence but failing to post them or even supply them to someone who could help Jeremy get out of prison proved he was full of s**t. Add his outright lies and nonsense about informants to the mix and you quickly realise that nothing he says is of any substance. And the worst thing is that if Bamber is a genuine miscarriage of justice (which I doubt almost entirely) then much damage would have been done to his cause by Tesco's rantings.