Author Topic: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.  (Read 8332 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 11:07:03 AM »
Huge what?

Interesting study from Hong Kong university suggesting masks can have  a huge effect in reducing the transmission of the covid-19 virus

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 01:49:57 PM »
I thought the UK tracing app was coming along, but it seems there are some hiccups along the way, fair enough.


But then...

The U.K.’s COVID-19 Contact Tracing App: Everything You Need To Know
Kate O'Flaherty
Kate O'FlahertySenior Contributor
Cybersecurity
I’m a cybersecurity journalist.

Contact-tracing-UK-privacy

The contact tracing app will track your movements and if someone you’ve come into contact with tests ...
  • NurPhoto via Getty Images


It’s official—COVID-19 is going to be part of our lives at least until a vaccine is found. As governments seek to find a way to exit lockdown, the U.K. has settled on a strategy of “test, track and trace.”

At the heart of this is the NHS’ contact tracing app, which is being tested on the Isle of Wight this week. If successful, the app is expected to go live across the U.K. in a few weeks. For the app to work, around 60% of the population—or 80% of smartphone users—will need to install it.

But that’s not its only problem. The contact tracing app failed clinical safety and cybersecurity tests and could be a danger to people’s privacy, according to a report published in the Health Service Journal this week.

Meanwhile, questions remain about the involvement of the shadowy Cambridge Analytica-linked analytics firm Palantir in the NHSX app. At the same time, there are fears that growing levels of surveillance will open the door to a dystopian future that no one imagined would arrive so soon.

“Only time and hindsight will tell which countries’ responses to the pandemic were right, but it is fair to say that the U.K.’s approach to automated contact tracing has flaws, both technical and legal,” says Rowenna Fielding, a privacy expert and head of individual rights and ethics at Protecture.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/05/06/the-uks-covid-19-contact-tracing-app-everything-you-need-to-know/#3bf4796dda4d

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 01:53:48 PM »
Interesting study from Hong Kong university suggesting masks can have  a huge effect in reducing the transmission of the covid-19 virus

Do you have a link?

Edinburgh Uni has also done a test using different types of masks.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-21/coronavirus-face-masks-can-reduce-spread-of-person-s-breathe-by-90-new-research-finds/


Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 08:03:02 PM »
Getting back to tracing seems to be a good step forward. The app appears to have a few hiccups, but human tracers have been recruited.

I'm not sure how this would actually work, though.

I get the idea that you get contacted by someone if you have symptoms, who will then attempt to trace who you've been in contact with.

But with an average incubation period of 5 days (up to 2 weeks in some cases, according to the WHO), how is anyone supposed to remember?

What about people who spend time in the company of strangers, e.g., on public transport or elsewhere? How will the tracers find potential "contacts"?


Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2020, 09:05:51 PM »
Do you have a link?

Edinburgh Uni has also done a test using different types of masks.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-21/coronavirus-face-masks-can-reduce-spread-of-person-s-breathe-by-90-new-research-finds/
If you Google hamsters... Corona virus... Hong-Kong University you should find it

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2020, 09:26:55 PM »
Getting back to tracing seems to be a good step forward. The app appears to have a few hiccups, but human tracers have been recruited.

I'm not sure how this would actually work, though.

I get the idea that you get contacted by someone if you have symptoms, who will then attempt to trace who you've been in contact with.

But with an average incubation period of 5 days (up to 2 weeks in some cases, according to the WHO), how is anyone supposed to remember?

What about people who spend time in the company of strangers, e.g., on public transport or elsewhere? How will the tracers find potential "contacts"?
We've been asked to keep a diary of those we have been in contact with.
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Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 10:41:14 AM »
If you Google hamsters... Corona virus... Hong-Kong University you should find it

Ok, will do. I'm guessing you're having problems posting links?

Offline Mr Gray


Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2020, 11:07:43 AM »
We've been asked to keep a diary of those we have been in contact with.

Although probably most effective, I doubt that the privacy-invasive tracing would be acceptable in western societies.

A combination of using Google Maps (which I balked at for years, but eventually found useful) and a manual diary updated twice a day, could be useful. Although even then, some people may end up with some explaining to do to their spouse, or teenagers to their parents. 

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2020, 11:08:28 AM »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2020, 11:11:14 AM »
Although probably most effective, I doubt that the privacy-invasive tracing would be acceptable in western societies.

A combination of using Google Maps (which I balked at for years, but eventually found useful) and a manual diary updated twice a day, could be useful. Although even then, some people may end up with some explaining to do to their spouse, or teenagers to their parents.

I love Google maps....I hired  a car in central Bangkok and drove to the coast....with the help of Google Maps

Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2020, 12:14:15 PM »
I love Google maps....I hired  a car in central Bangkok and drove to the coast....with the help of Google Maps

I used to be horrified by the Big Brother impression I got, but I'm getting used to it. I still have an ancient TomTom which I sometimes use.

An annoying feature of Google Maps is when it tells you in the middle of fast-moving traffic to head north onto xyz street. How the hell am I supposed to know where north is? And there are hardly ever any street names posted where you need them.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2020, 12:15:19 PM »
Although probably most effective, I doubt that the privacy-invasive tracing would be acceptable in western societies.

A combination of using Google Maps (which I balked at for years, but eventually found useful) and a manual diary updated twice a day, could be useful. Although even then, some people may end up with some explaining to do to their spouse, or teenagers to their parents.
You could just miss those bits out.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana


Offline Carana

Re: The Government's mishandling of the Covid-19 epidemic.
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2020, 01:54:11 PM »
I think the TTI concept needs a bit of, erm, refining.

People who have no symptoms of coronavirus must be prepared from June 1 to “do their bit” by self-isolating for 14 days if told they could be a carrier, the Health Secretary warned today.

Writing exclusively in the Evening Standard , Matt Hancock revealed the move to “test and trace” will impose a new social responsibility on the public to stay at home for two weeks even if they feel well.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/matt-hancock-healthy-people-isolate-tracked-a4448376.html

There's no way in hell you can expect people just out of months of confinement to agree to 2 more weeks, extended according to however many more alerts crop up. And how will people get back to work?

IMO:

1. "Soft" tracking will inevitably miss some, but it's better than nothing at this stage.

- Even then, tracers MUST ask the right questions re known / potential symptoms (not always starting with fever & cough); tracking needs to cover realistic pre-symptomatic phase (not necessarily just tracking contacts from a "couple of days" prior to onset; and further quarantine needs to be based on latest info as to continued infectious state post-symptomatic phase (can be more than a few days).

- If a contact gets an alert, they could be anywhere at the time. Trackers need to trace the contacts until they can get home (commuting, picking up kids, shopping...).

2. Testing needs to be ramped up: getting tests to the potential patient when the result is most likely to show positive (seemingly testing too soon can lead to false negatives;, ramping up the lab capabilities to get test results back as soon as possible; and ditto for contacts.

That means a massive amount of tests that can be turned around as quickly as possible to reduce the number of people who may need to self-isolate and how long for.