Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or Self Defence?

[Wonderfulspam]

It will be interesting if the jury doesn't agree...

They had no reasonable grounds to stop him, never informed him they were making a citizens arrest, from the victims perspective in that moment it was simply a lynching.

It will be interesting to see the verdict but if I was a jury member I wouldn't be able to get past them having no good reason to suspect or pursue him.

[Wonderfulspam]

Joanne Fiedler, a woman in the Rittenhouse group even slipped under oath.

She talks of Mr Yellow Pants (The guy who claimed Rittenhouse pointed a gun when he was jumping on a car & has not given testimony in the trial)

"He pointed a gun at us first".....!!!!

This incident is not filmed & from the later videos of Mr Yellow pants that evening he is totally unarmed.

Fact: Rittenhouse pointed a gun (either with or without laser pointer) at Mr Yellow pants.

So, either the first decedent Rosenbaum saw this, or Rittenhouse also pointed at Rosenbaum in the hours prior to the shooting.

[Wonderfulspam]

The claim that Rosenbaum threatened to kill Rittenhouse & others if he got them alone is also not supported by Mrs Fiedler, she claims Rosenbaum was there, aggressive throwing things but made no mention of specific threats to kill.

Dominic Black, who gave Rittenhouse the gun & was supposedly on the roof the whole time, doesn't mention seeing Rosenbaum anytime either!

In his testimony he does not recall Mr Yellow Pants being aimed at. (convenient) but his nonsense about the unknown guy with big laser pen supports the fact that someone was.

Conclusion: The first decedent may not have threatened to kill Rittenhouse earlier in the evening.

[Wonderfulspam]

I've viewed the videos in evidence again & neither Rittenhouse nor any of his group are in the gas station when Rosenbaum is challenging people to shoot him.

It appears Rosenbaum is challenging them simply because one armed man put out a dumpster fire & because they were protecting the gas pumps.

[Wonderfulspam]

I've viewed the videos in evidence again & neither Rittenhouse nor any of his group are in the gas station when Rosenbaum is challenging people to shoot him.

It appears Rosenbaum is challenging people because an armed man put out a dumpster fire & because they were protecting the gas pumps.

I've viewed gas station clips again, again...

During the clip Rittenhouse is heard at the gas station a few minutes (maybe 2-3) after the burning dumpster Rosenbaum incident, the Ziminskis & Greusskreutz are also shown at one point during this clip. 

Rittenhouse is heard off screen saying 'Anybody need Medical?'  He can be heard again asking the live streamer if he needs medical, (who replies no I'm good) then a minute or two later is finally shown on screen.

The state didn't point any of this out to the jury during prosecution, in other videos he pauses & say's let the jury be in no doubt this is Rossenbaum, or Ziminskis, Greusskreutz etc.

.......

The significance of all this is that Rittenhouse remained silent when he handed himself into police.

He has never given an account of his movements that evening, he has had the benefit of a year tailoring his story to fit the video evidence & his account of his time spent during the evening at the gas station is limited to that which he has sworn to at the trial.

By his testimony, in the minutes prior to the shooting he had just arrived & lost then started looking for his friend, Ryan Baulch, inside the gas station & could not find him (he runs right past him in the clip) He had recieved a call from Dominic Black directing him to the car source lot (which was unguarded) where the first shooting takes place.

Dominic Black is unsure how he gained the information that protesters were starting fires at the car lot requiring Rittenhouse (alone) to head that way. (convenient)

I can only guess that someone in Rittenhouse's group was watching live streams & saw the rioters there or heading that way, then directed Rittenhouse that way so he could confront the people with his weapon & provoke an attack on himself in the context he was alone innocently putting out a fire when unreasonably attacked.

So much of this case remains unclear due to the reluctance of those involved to talk & the sketchy stories of those associated with Rittenhouse.

One thing that is known is that the evenings prior to this incident, Rittenhouse & Black had been at Black's house watching live streams of the protests, they saw a man putting out a fire then having his jaw broken by protesters.
(This from Rittenhouse's testimony & it actually did happen to a store owner).

This appears to be Rittenhouse's inspiration, if he can get himself alone with protesters, put out a fire & have them attack him for it, he can then use lethal force to protect himself.

There is more to this story which I will detail further later.

[Wonderfulspam]

Closing arguments today, around 3pm GMT.

Having reviewed the entire trial, almost everything hinges on the moments before Rosenbaum began pursuing Rittenhouse.

The defence claim is that Rittenhouse was confronted by the Zimiskis for attempting to put out a fire & was recognised from an earlier incident, prompting Rosenbaum to pursue.

The prosecution allege, using a grainy, pixilated, long distance image, that Rittenhouse pointed his gun at Joshua Ziminski, causing Rosenbaum to pursue him. Ziminski has not given testimony supporting this, neither has anyone else, I find this totally bizarre since the Ziminski incident is their entire case in the first shooting.

[Wonderfulspam]

Closing Arguments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Z_0iXha3k

[Wonderfulspam]

Judge dismisses count 6: unlawful possession of firearm.

Judge Bruce Schroeder has granted a defence motion to dismiss a misdemeanour gun charge against Mr Rittenhouse.

The motion pertained to the sixth count against Mr Rittenhouse, possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, punishable by up to nine months in jail.

The judge said the Wisconsin law in question was poorly written, and that Mr Rittenhouse was not in violation because of his rifle’s shorter barrel length.

[Wonderfulspam]

A lot hinges on reasonable belief.

Was it reasonable to believe when being chased by an angry guy, who is undeterred by having a gun pointed at him, that person was about to effect great bodily harm?

Seems it might be reasonable to me.

However, if Rittenhouse provoked the attack unlawfully (this is unproven either way), did he exhaust all reasonable possibilities to escape before using force?

He ran away, his path ahead was partially blocked by a car & behind that a mob of armed protesters, however he may still have been able to continue running, but turned after Ziminski shot in the air.

I'm unsure how this will go.


The first charge against him also hinges on him showing an utter disregard for human life.

He quite possibly done that, firing 4 total bullets at Rosenbaum when he fell on the first (all happened in 0.76 seconds) then phoning his friend & not an ambulance, then later showing absolutely no remorse for his actions or sympathy for the lives he took, instead posing for pictures with far right groups. 

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not on the jury or Kyle Rittenhouse.

[Wonderfulspam]

Watching the grainy video, it seems Rittenhouse may well have pointed his gun at Ziminski imo.

Given the supporting evidence earlier in the evening that he already pointed at Mr Yellow pants this seems most likely.

Again though, neither Joshua Ziminski nor his partner were ever called to the stand to confirm this very important detail, so the jury must rely on the pixilated video.

[Wonderfulspam]

The prosecution are going to debunk the claim of Rosenbaum's alleged threats to kill Rittenhouse earlier in the evening, which I already had doubts about due to the inconsistency within the Rittenhouse groups account of the threats.

[Wonderfulspam]

Rossenbaum's alleged threats to kill Rittenhouse.

Rittenhouse & Baulch claim to have heard this threat, Joanne Fiedler's account isn't entirely clear whilst Dominic Black, Nick Smith & Justin Luckowski who were all in the immediate area either never saw Rosenbaum (Smith, Black) at all, or saw him but never heard any threats (Luckowski).

Without the prior threat to kill Rittenhouse's defence is weakened, it shows the jury he may untruthful & that his account of the subsequent incident involving the Ziminskis' is in doubt.

[Wonderfulspam]

The Ziminskis.

It was revealed during closing yesterday that Kelly Ziminski was available to be called as a witness but the state chose not to call her. This despite her witnessing the incident that led up to the first shooting in which the state allege Rittenhouse pointed his gun at Joshua Ziminski.

So the strength of the provocation element hinges on a pixilated image, in which incidentally, the defence claim if true, Rittenhouse would have to be holding his firearm left handed, for the first & only time in that evening.

[Wonderfulspam]

After 3.5 days deliberation, not guilty on all counts.

I fully expect the state to rebuild their case & have another go.

[barrier]

After 3.5 days deliberation, not guilty on all counts.

I fully expect the state to rebuild their case & have another go.

Can they ?