UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on July 05, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
Thats a toughie.
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I don't think he's involved in MM's disappeance.
I've always thought OG will be wound up next year when MM turns 18 yoa.
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I don't think he's involved in MM's disappeance.
I've always thought OG will be wound up next year when MM turns 18 yoa.
Madeleine is ward of court, imo thats the reason OG can't go with her death, its up to the court to decide, obviously no evidence or the Germans haven't produced it.
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Thats a toughie.
Indeed and in my mind you can’t believe one without accepting the other.
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
Any sensible person wouldnt make any decision without knowing what the evidence is...but feel free to carry on.
Grange will stop when they have nothing worthwhile to investigate...its that simple.
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Any sensible person wouldnt make any decision without knowing what the evidence is...but feel free to carry on.
grange will stop when they have nothing worthwhile to investigate...its that simple.
At this point there certainly isn’t enough evidence to charge Brueckner and there may never be. TBH I’m not sure the thread applies to you as as things stand I don’t think you believe he was involved.
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
As long as the McCanns are not implicated in any way, I'm sure supporters will accept anything.
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At this point there certainly isn’t enough evidence to charge Brueckner and there may never be. TBH I’m not sure the thread applies to you as as things stand I don’t think you believe he was involved.
I think its quite possible he was involved based what his friends have said...based on his previous convictions...but it depends what this concrete evidence is. Im sure you are aware of the phrase..."the police are not looking for anyone else in this case"
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As long as the McCanns are not implicated in any way, I'm sure supporters will accept anything.
They are not implicated as things stand
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I don’t really understand what point the OP is trying to make. If Operation Grange is terminated without resolution then why wouldn’t I accept it? What choice would anyone have anyway?
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I think its quite possible he was involved based what his friends have said...based on his previous convictions...but it depends what this concrete evidence is. Im sure you are aware of the phrase..."the police are not looking for anyone else in this case"
Hewlett’s criminal record was just as horrific, we had stories from friends and he wasn’t far from PDL on the 3rd of May yet he had no part in Madeleine’s disappearance. Brueckner could be another Hewlett.
There is no concrete evidence or the German police would have charged him.
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I think its quite possible he was involved based what his friends have said...based on his previous convictions...but it depends what this concrete evidence is. Im sure you are aware of the phrase..."the police are not looking for anyone else in this case"
It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
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I think its quite possible he was involved based what his friends have said...based on his previous convictions...but it depends what this concrete evidence is. Im sure you are aware of the phrase..."the police are not looking for anyone else in this case"
Where have investigating authorities said they're not looking for anyone else?
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It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
Then I think your judgement is extremely poor....unless you think rape and paedophilia are trivial...and then I know your judgement is poor
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Where have investigating authorities said they're not looking for anyone else?
Where have I said they have said that
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It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
What on EARTH are you on about? On what grounds have you decided that his convictions for child abuse and rape are bogus?
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Hewlett’s criminal record was just as horrific, we had stories from friends and he wasn’t far from PDL on the 3rd of May yet he had no part in Madeleine’s disappearance. Brueckner could be another Hewlett.
There is no concrete evidence or the German police would have charged him.
Thats merely your opinion...and imo an opinion based on ignorance
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Thats merely your opinion...and imo an opinion based on ignorance
Your constant use of insults does you no favours.
Every other police force in the world charge a suspect when they have concrete evidence, the Germans aren’t. What other reason could explain this other than no concrete evidence?
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Hewlett’s criminal record was just as horrific, we had stories from friends and he wasn’t far from PDL on the 3rd of May yet he had no part in Madeleine’s disappearance. Brueckner could be another Hewlett.
There is no concrete evidence or the German police would have charged him.
I agree. However, Hewlett’s phone had not been traced to the vicinity of 5A.
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I agree. However, Hewlett’s phone had not been traced to the vicinity of 5A.
Neither has CB's.
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Neither has CB's.
Are the German police lying then, in your view?
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Your constant use of insults does you no favours.
Every other police force in the world charge a suspect when they have concrete evidence, the Germans aren’t. What other reason could explain this other than no concrete evidence?
You stated your opinion as fact....and as such your opinion is based on your ignorance of the facts...thats not an insult its a fact.
I'm sure I read early on that if the question or charge him they have to reveal all the evidence they hold against him...and thats why they were waiting until after their appeals for further information
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I agree. However, Hewlett’s phone had not been traced to the vicinity of 5A.
Not 5a PDL. There is a difference.
I know that you are quite keen on Brueckner as the culprit. Would you be happy with the termination of OG ?
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Not 5a PDL. There is a difference.
I know that you are quite keen on Brueckner as the culprit. Would you be happy with the termination of OG ?
I would be perfectly happy with the termination og OG if it had no further leads....there would not be any choice
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What on EARTH are you on about? On what grounds have you decided that his convictions for child abuse and rape are bogus?
He is 43 yoa and for most of his life he has been a free man. If he was committing serious offences he would have spent large chunks of his life incarcerated.
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He is 43 yoa and for most of his life he has been a free man. If he was committing serious offences he would have spent large chunks of his life incarcerated.
Not if you commit those crimes in Portugal it seems...are you rally suggesting hes only a petty criminal...thats absurd
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You stated your opinion as fact....and as such your opinion is based on your ignorance of the facts...thats not an insult its a fact.
I'm sure I read early on that if the question or charge him they have to reveal all the evidence they hold against him...and thats why they were waiting until after their appeals for further information
I’m sorry but if there is concrete evidence that proves Brueckner’s guilt then Brueckner knowing about it is not going to change that evidence.
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Are the German police lying then, in your view?
Where have the German police said anything about a phone linked to CB in the vicinity of 5A?
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Where have the German police said anything about a phone linked to CB in the vicinity of 5A?
On the 60 minute documentary, HCW said so. You really need to brush up.
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He is 43 yoa and for most of his life he has been a free man. If he was committing serious offences he would have spent large chunks of his life incarcerated.
So the child abuse and rape convictions are petty crimes or didn’t happen, is that what you are saying?
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Where have the German police said anything about a phone linked to CB in the vicinity of 5A?
I believe the masts around PDL wouldn’t have been that precise.
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Not if you commit those crimes in Portugal it seems...are you rally suggesting hes only a petty criminal...thats absurd
And yet it seems the Portuguese convicted him of fuel theft?
Portugal is a modern democratic country where the rule of law applies. Its not some under developed, lawless, sub-saharan African state.
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I believe the masts around PDL wouldn’t have been that precise.
That's very much my understanding.
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And yet it seems the Portuguese convicted him of fuel theft?
Portugal is a modern democratic country where the rule of law applies. Its not some under developed, lawless, sub-saharan African state.
he committed rape in portugal...he's been found guilty of that
he exposed himself to children and masturbated in front of them in portugal...no charges
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So the child abuse and rape convictions are petty crimes or didn’t happen, is that what you are saying?
Where's the evidence he has spent more than a few months in jail at any given time?
From the BKA website:
Between 1995 and 2007 he lived more or less permanently in the Algarve, including for a few years in a house between Lagos and Praia da Luz. During this period, he pursued several odd jobs in the Lagos area, including in the catering trade. There are also indications that he also made his living by committing crimes such as burglary theft in hotel complexes and holiday apartments as well as drug trafficking.
Furthermore, the suspect has been sentenced to imprisonment on multiple occasions for the sexual abuse of children. Most of his contacts should not be aware of this.
- For 12 years he was living in Portugal
- Indications he made his living by committing crimes
- Indication?
- Imprisonment on multiple occasions for the sexual abuse of children
- When? Not all the time he lived in Portugal. If multiple from his time in Germany then why were the sentences not getting longer for repeat offending?
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he committed rape in portugal...he's been found guilty of that
he exposed himself to children and masturbated in front of them in portugal...no charges
Where's the evidence of the rape conviction and where's the evidence he exposed himself and masturbated in front of children in Portugal?
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Where's the evidence of the rape conviction and where's the evidence he exposed himself and masturbated in front of children in Portugal?
Evidence has been provided but unless he did it in front of you I dont think you would accept it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r53DQ_DFewo&feature=youtu.be
21.20
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Where's the evidence he has spent more than a few months in jail at any given time?
From the BKA website:
Between 1995 and 2007 he lived more or less permanently in the Algarve, including for a few years in a house between Lagos and Praia da Luz. During this period, he pursued several odd jobs in the Lagos area, including in the catering trade. There are also indications that he also made his living by committing crimes such as burglary theft in hotel complexes and holiday apartments as well as drug trafficking.
Furthermore, the suspect has been sentenced to imprisonment on multiple occasions for the sexual abuse of children. Most of his contacts should not be aware of this.
- For 12 years he was living in Portugal
- Indications he made his living by committing crimes
- Indication?
- Imprisonment on multiple occasions for the sexual abuse of children
- When? Not all the time he lived in Portugal. If multiple from his time in Germany then why were the sentences not getting longer for repeat offending?
So the child abuse and rape convictions are petty crimes or didn’t happen, is that what you are saying?
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So the child abuse and rape convictions are petty crimes or didn’t happen, is that what you are saying?
Please refer to the BKA website. It makes no mention of a rape conviction.
If he was sentenced for child sex abuse in Germany on multiple occasions I'm wondering why the sentences were not getting progressively longer for repeat offending, which begs the question how he has spent so much of his time with his liberty in tact.
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Please refer to the BKA website. It makes no mention of a rape conviction.
If he was sentenced for child sex abuse in Germany on multiple occasions I'm wondering why the sentences were not getting progressively longer for repeat offending, which begs the question how he has spent so much of his time with his liberty in tact.
There is no mention of the rape conviction because although he was found guilty on overwhelming evidence he has appealed on a technicality re his extradition for the trial...he carried out the rape.
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Please refer to the BKA website. It makes no mention of a rape conviction.
If he was sentenced for child sex abuse in Germany on multiple occasions I'm wondering why the sentences were not getting progressively longer for repeat offending, which begs the question how he has spent so much of his time with his liberty in tact.
Basically it seems to me that you believe the German police are perpetuating a giant fraud on the world. Could you explain why they would do this?
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Basically it seems to me that you believe the German police are perpetuating a giant fraud on the world. Could you explain why they would do this?
perhaps Holly thinks it could involve MI5
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And yet it seems the Portuguese convicted him of fuel theft?
Portugal is a modern democratic country where the rule of law applies. Its not some under developed, lawless, sub-saharan African state.
Have you been to Sub-Saharan Africa?
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There is no mention of the rape conviction because although he was found guilty on overwhelming evidence he has appealed on a technicality re his extradition for the trial...he carried out the rape.
Cite please.
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Where's the evidence of the rape conviction and where's the evidence he exposed himself and masturbated in front of children in Portugal?
The mother of the child said so.
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Basically it seems to me that you believe the German police are perpetuating a giant fraud on the world. Could you explain why they would do this?
In which case why have I referred to and relied upon the BKA website?
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The mother of the child said so.
She would be better talking to law enforcement than SF.
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Neither has CB's.
Why are you disregarding what German officials’ evidence show? To me, it seems that German police came across material of Madeleine, while investigating the case of Inga Gehricke.
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Evidence has been provided but unless he did it in front of you I dont think you would accept it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r53DQ_DFewo&feature=youtu.be
21.20
These people need to take it up with law enforcement then especially now they can put a name to the face.
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Cite please.
Are you saying you aren't aware of this..
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Why are you disregarding what German officials’ evidence show? To me, it seems that German police came across material of Madeleine, while investigating the case of Inga Gehricke.
Where are the coordinates from German officials placing CB and his phone in close proximity to 5A?
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Cite please.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/04/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-fled-police-in-1995
Please say thank you
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Are you saying you aren't aware of this..
Where are the press reports from Germany and Portugal reporting on the trial and conviction?
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Where are the coordinates from German officials placing CB and his phone in close proximity to 5A?
Holly, why are you questioning the coordinates?
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Where are the press reports from Germany and Portugal reporting on the trial and conviction?
Read the Guardian article....
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Where are the press reports from Germany and Portugal reporting on the trial and conviction?
Why would you trust press reports...why are you not insisting on official court documents...originals..not copies..with certified official translation from a recognised licenced court translator...you seem to have gone a bit sloppy
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In which case why have I referred to and relied upon the BKA website?
What DO you think is going on then?
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The mother of the child said so.
Where did you read this ?
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Read the Guardian article....
I've read it previously and used the search facility for the German paper but unable to turn anything up for the rape:
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/suche/
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Why would you trust press reports...why are you not insisting on official court documents...originals..not copies..with certified official translation from a recognised licenced court translator...you seem to have gone a bit sloppy
Press reports would be a start to show a trial actually took place.
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And yet it seems the Portuguese convicted him of fuel theft?
Portugal is a modern democratic country where the rule of law applies. Its not some under developed, lawless, sub-saharan African state.
[/b]
Really? I suggest you study and familiarise yourself with these areas.
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Press reports would be a start to show a trial actually took place.
How would you go about finding a press report of a rape in Germany in which neither the accused nor the victim are named?
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Press reports would be a start to show a trial actually took place.
If you think it didn't you must be daft...read the Guardian
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/04/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-fled-police-in-1995
Please say thank you
Obrigado Davel x
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How would you go about finding a press report of a rape in Germany in which neither the accused nor the victim are named?
Theres a German reporter who followed the case closely...I could dig her name out but I really can't be bothered.
If holly wants to think this is all another 911hoax she's best left to it
Bettina Thoenes, a reporter for the Braunschweiger Zeitung, who followed the rape trial, described him as “a man of intelligent appearance, dressed in a simple grey shirt and slightly oversized jeans”. She said he was eloquent, and quoted frequently from legal text books
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If you think it didn't you must be daft...read the Guardian
I've read the Guardian article twice Davel. It refers to a journalist by the name of Bettina Thoenes who it claims reported on the trial for the following paper but a search doesn't turn up anything on the rape.
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Theres a German reporter who followed the case closely...I could dig her name out but I really can't be bothered.
If holly wants to think this is all another 911hoax she's best left to it
Bettina Thoenes, a reporter for the Braunschweiger Zeitung, who followed the rape trial, described him as “a man of intelligent appearance, dressed in a simple grey shirt and slightly oversized jeans”. She said he was eloquent, and quoted frequently from legal text books
How do you know this woman actually exists?
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I've read the Guardian article twice Davel. It refers to a journalist by the name of Bettina Thoenes who it claims reported on the trial for the following paper but a search doesn't turn up anything on the rape.
It's all being hushed up by the Illuminati ...but the Guardian report said they had seen the court papers...best read it again
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I've read the Guardian article twice Davel. It refers to a journalist by the name of Bettina Thoenes who it claims reported on the trial for the following paper but a search doesn't turn up anything on the rape.
Shes on Facebook, why not send her a message and ask her if she’s part of the conspiracy?
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I've read the Guardian article twice Davel. It refers to a journalist by the name of Bettina Thoenes who it claims reported on the trial for the following paper but a search doesn't turn up anything on the rape.
you don’t look very hard do you?
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article227897265/Vergewaltigungsprozess-Gericht-setzt-Verfahren-nicht-aus.html
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https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article227939701/Sieben-Jahre-Haft-wegen-brutaler-Vergewaltigung-in-Portugal.html
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https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/braunschweig_harz_goettingen/Vergewaltigung-in-Portugal-Mann-vor-Gericht,aktuellbraunschweig3482.html
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you don’t look very hard do you?
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article227897265/Vergewaltigungsprozess-Gericht-setzt-Verfahren-nicht-aus.html
No I didn't but thanks for turning up.
Where's the verdict?
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https://regionalheute.de/72-jaehrige-vergewaltigt-misshandelt-und-ausgeraubt/
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Is that enough evidence that the rape trial actually happened or do we think these reports were faked back in December, in preparation for the massive hoax now being perpetrated by the German authorities?
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https://regionalheute.de/72-jaehrige-vergewaltigt-misshandelt-und-ausgeraubt/
Where's the verdict?
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No I didn't but thanks for turning up.
Where's the verdict?
Just in case you missed it the first time
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article227939701/Sieben-Jahre-Haft-wegen-brutaler-Vergewaltigung-in-Portugal.html
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Where's the verdict?
You’re quite lazy aren’t you?
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Where's the verdict?
This is from the German paper...the verdict
BRUNSWICK. The Braunschweig public prosecutor's office is investigating Maddie McCann's case against a German who was convicted of rape.
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Is that enough evidence that the rape trial actually happened or do we think these reports were faked back in December, in preparation for the massive hoax now being perpetrated by the German authorities?
Where's the ref to the rape on the BKA website:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11633.msg601327#msg601327
Thanks for turning up the articles re the court case but Where's the verdict?
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Where's the ref to the rape on the BKA website:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11633.msg601327#msg601327
Thanks for turning up the articles re the court case but Where's the verdict?
For the THIRD time here is the verdict. Are you blind, lazy or just trolling?
https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article227939701/Sieben-Jahre-Haft-wegen-brutaler-Vergewaltigung-in-Portugal.html
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For the THIRD time here is the verdict. Are you blind, lazy or just trolling?
https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article227939701/Sieben-Jahre-Haft-wegen-brutaler-Vergewaltigung-in-Portugal.html
Thanks. First time I've seen the verdict.
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Thanks. First time I've seen the verdict.
It’s the third time I’ve posted it this evening but you’re welcome. Now you have to figure out a way of dismissing it. Good night.
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Thanks. First time I've seen the verdict.
Now we have established that your claim that Breukner is just a petty criminal is wrong....your claim that a search for the rape in the German papers is wrong...do you understand that now
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Now we have established that your claim that Breukner is just a petty criminal is wrong....your claim that a search for the rape in the German papers is wrong...do you understand that now
You obviously don't read my posts.
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You obviously don't read my posts.
im not sure you do...so from that I presume you have admitted you are wrong..
I dont see anty post by you admitting you are wrong
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im not sure you do...so from that I presume you have admitted you are wrong..
I dont see anty post by you admitting you are wrong
Wrong about what?
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Wrong about what?
Dovyou consider the brutal and sadistic rape of a 72 year old woman to be “petty crime”?
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Wrong about what?
that he was merely a petty criminal
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Dovyou consider the brutal and sadistic rape of a 72 year old woman to be “petty crime”?
I think you and I have been here before when I described CB as having a "very dodgy" past and you chose to omit "very"?
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I've read the Guardian article twice Davel. It refers to a journalist by the name of Bettina Thoenes who it claims reported on the trial for the following paper but a search doesn't turn up anything on the rape.
a search does tiurn up the details of the rape
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a search does tiurn up the details of the rape
I know VS turned up yesterday. I've never denied the rape charge just sought further clarification.
Myster will confirm very early on I pointed out (wrongly according to Myster) that CB lived in close proximity to the victim.
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I know VS turned up yesterday. I've never denied the rape charge just sought further clarification.
Myster will confirm very early on I pointed out (wrongly according to Myster) that CB lived in close proximity to the victim.
You claimed he was only guilty of petty crimes...rape is not a petty crime...therefore you were denying the rape. its no use denying it...your posts are all there
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You claimed he was only guilty of petty crimes...rape is not a petty crime...therefore you were denying the rape. its no use denying it...your posts are all there
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11593.msg596339#msg596339
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11593.msg596339#msg596339
I've put him down as a burglar but I'm not sure if he has convictions for burglary?
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I've put him down as a burglar but I'm not sure if he has convictions for burglary?
Well now you know he has a rape conviction so he is not just a petty criminal
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I think you and I have been here before when I described CB as having a "very dodgy" past and you chose to omit "very"?
A couple of days you described him as a petty criminal and you had seen no evidence of a conviction for rape. Why are you re-writing history?
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It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
^^^^. your words. Were you drunk when you wrote them?
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Well now you know he has a rape conviction so he is not just a petty criminal
The rape conviction is yet to be imposed.
To date his prison sentences are commensurate with petty crime.
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The rape conviction is yet to be imposed.
To date his prison sentences are commensurate with petty crime.
pathetic excuse...the conviction has been made on strong evidence...not sure why you want to make excuses for such a vile person.
he has aconviction for paedophilia in germany ...if you dont want to accept the truth thats fine
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^^^^. your words. Were you drunk when you wrote them?
To date his prison sentences are commensurate with petty crime.
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To date his prison sentences are commensurate with petty crime.
did he not serve a prison sentence for paedophilia in germany..is that a petty crime too
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pathetic excuse...the conviction has been made on strong evidence...not sure why you want to make excuses for such a vile person.
he has aconviction for paedophilia in germany ...if you dont want to accept the truth thats fine
How am I making excuses for him when on 4th June I made the following post:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11593.msg596339#msg596339
We're talking a sparsely populated area with a 'new' suspect who had two distinctive vehicles and made/received mobile calls in the area some 1/2 hours before MM went missing. He was a known burglar/drug dealer/sex offender. OG have had some 7 years and 12 million and this is what they've come up with but no charges!
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did he not serve a prison sentence for paedophilia in germany..is that a petty crime too
The length of sentence is usually a reliable determinant of severity.
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How am I making excuses for him when on 4th June I made the following post:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11593.msg596339#msg596339
We're talking a sparsely populated area with a 'new' suspect who had two distinctive vehicles and made/received mobile calls in the area some 1/2 hours before MM went missing. He was a known burglar/drug dealer/sex offender. OG have had some 7 years and 12 million and this is what they've come up with but no charges!
so now you take back you claim re him only being a petty criminal
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The length of sentence is usually a reliable determinant of severity.
so we have established taht your values include paedophilia as being a petty crime...thats very revealing...a paedophilia apologist
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How am I making excuses for him when on 4th June I made the following post:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11593.msg596339#msg596339
We're talking a sparsely populated area with a 'new' suspect who had two distinctive vehicles and made/received mobile calls in the area some 1/2 hours before MM went missing. He was a known burglar/drug dealer/sex offender. OG have had some 7 years and 12 million and this is what they've come up with but no charges!
Pathfinder posted this in another thread.
04.07.2020
Madeleine McCann
Prosecutors do not apply for a warrant
There is "currently no urgent suspicion".
Braunschweig - In the missing case of Madeleine McCann, the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig sees no way of issuing an arrest warrant against the accused Christian B. There is "currently no urgent suspicion of crime," the first prosecutor told Spiegel.
According to the public prosecutor, there is also no time pressure during the investigations. "We assume that Christian B. will remain in custody at least until the beginning of 2021 for other crimes," it said.
The investigators had recently sought public witnesses again. Investigators suspect that the girl was kidnapped and killed in Portugal in 2007.
The accused is currently serving a sentence in Kiel for a drug offense. On July 16, the European Court of Justice will decide whether a further rape conviction should be brought into line with the International Legal Assistance Act. B. makes use of his right to remain silent.
https://newsburger.de/madeleine-mccann-staatsanwaltschaft-beantragt-keinen-haftbefehl-128364.html
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so now you take back you claim re him only being a petty criminal
I've never referred to him as a petty criminal.
I said I doubt his previous involves more than petty crime and until the rape charge is imposed I believe this to be correct based on the sentences that have been imposed ie months as opposed to years or decades.
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I've never referred to him as a petty criminal.
I said I doubt his previous involves more than petty crime and until the rape charge is imposed I believe this to be correct based on the sentences that have been imposed ie months as opposed to years or decades.
so you think his conviction for paedophilia is a petty crime...I think thats a total insult to the children involved and you should be ashamed of yourself..
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so we have established taht your values include paedophilia as being a petty crime...thats very revealing...a paedophilia apologist
I think you will find that's how the courts regard the type of offences he has been convicted of based on the sentences handed down.
The BKA website refers to:
Furthermore, the suspect has been sentenced to imprisonment on multiple occasions for the sexual abuse of children.
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so you think his conviction for paedophilia is a petty crime...I think thats a total insult to the children involved and you should be ashamed of yourself..
I think you're just trying to be emotive Davel.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg604648#msg604648
Yes Dave Barclay said about 600 had been identified and elininated.
What's your definition of a paedophile? As revolting as it is to you and me sadly it's a fact of life a significant number of men from all walks of life derive sexual gratification from looking at images of pre-pubescent youngsters.
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I think you will find that's how the courts regard the type of offences he has been convicted of based on the sentences handed down.
The BKA website refers to:
Furthermore, the suspect has been sentenced to imprisonment on multiple occasions for the sexual abuse of children.
Cite for paedophilia being regarded a spetty crime by the court. Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous imo. Paedophilia is not apetty crime and is about time you realised that
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I think you're just trying to be emotive Davel.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg604648#msg604648
Yes Dave Barclay said about 600 had been identified and elininated.
What's your definition of a paedophile? As revolting as it is to you and me sadly it's a fact of life a significant number of men from all walks of life derive sexual gratification from looking at images of pre-pubescent youngsters.
You can think what you like...im not too impressed with your thought processes.
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You can think what you like...im not too impressed with your thought processes.
I wouldn't bother about my thought processes since I have zero sway over the courts.
I have posted previously that the term 'child sex abuse' covers a range of crimes from viewing grade 1 (lowest) pornograpgy through to rape. Many viewing child pornograpgy will only receive a suspended sentence.
https://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/court-watch/radlett-man-sentenced-for-child-pornography-1-5999617
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Cite for paedophilia being regarded a spetty crime by the court. Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous imo. Paedophilia is not apetty crime and is about time you realised that
Tell the courts then when they hand out suspended sentences for viewing child pornograpgy.
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To date his prison sentences are commensurate with petty crime.
Spectacular goalpost shifting and entirely predictable.
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Tell the courts then when they hand out suspended sentences for viewing child pornograpgy.
that doesnt follow taht they regard the offence as petty..its a non sequitur...breukner was given a custodial sentence
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I wouldn't bother about my thought processes since I have zero sway over the courts.
I have posted previously that the term 'child sex abuse' covers a range of crimes from viewing grade 1 (lowest) pornograpgy through to rape. Many viewing child pornograpgy will only receive a suspended sentence.
https://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/court-watch/radlett-man-sentenced-for-child-pornography-1-5999617
I can link to another where 250,000 images were found, the police stopped counting,he also received a suspended sentence.
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I could turn up hundreds of cases where crimes such as viewing pornograpgy and indecent exposure only result in a suspended sentence. Seems to me the courts regard these crimes as 'petty' if not they would impose custodial sentences.
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I could turn up hundreds of cases where crimes such as viewing pornograpgy and indecent exposure only result in a suspended sentence. Seems to me the courts regard these crimes as 'petty' if not they would impose custodial sentences.
breukner wasnt viewing pornography and he was given youth custody
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I can link to another where 250,000 images were found, the police stopped counting,he also received a suspended sentence.
are you another paedophile apologist who sees the crime as petty
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I could turn up hundreds of cases where crimes such as viewing pornograpgy and indecent exposure only result in a suspended sentence. Seems to me the courts regard these crimes as 'petty' if not they would impose custodial sentences.
Child molestation and performing a sex act in front of a child for which he did receive a custodial sentence - as a youth (they tend not to get such long sentences, in cas you hadn't realised).
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I can link to another where 250,000 images were found, the police stopped counting,he also received a suspended sentence.
Exactly. How are lay people supposed to regard these crimes when the courts do not even impose custodial sentences? I would imagine for most the shame and humiliation of having their name associated with such material is a greater punishment than anything the courts could hand out.
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Child molestation and performing a sex act in front of a child for which he did receive a custodial sentence - as a youth (they tend not to get such long sentences, in cas you hadn't realised).
I think its quite worrying that two posters here see paedophilia as petty
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I think its quite worrying that two posters here see paedophilia as petty
And yet twiddling a nipple and sucking on a finger is the most disgusting thing they have ever encountered. It's quite bizarre.
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And yet twiddling a nipple and sucking on a finger is the most disgusting thing they have ever encountered. It's quite bizarre.
At least you admit it happened.
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are you another paedophile apologist who sees the crime as petty
You're just being emotive and attempting to stir up trouble on the forum Davel.
If you're unhappy with the way the courts deal with these crimes I suggest you take it up with your MP/MEP.
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At least you admit it happened.
How do you work that one out Genius?
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At least you admit it happened.
I would say it happened but what wa sits significance
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I think its quite worrying that two posters here see paedophilia as petty
You're just being emotive and attempting to stir up trouble on the forum Davel.
If you're unhappy with the way the courts deal with these crimes I suggest you take it up with your MP/MEP.
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You're just being emotive and attempting to stir up trouble on the forum Davel.
If you're unhappy with the way the courts deal with these crimes I suggest you take it up with your MP/MEP.
Simple question: knowing what you now know about CB would you still describe him as a petty criminal?
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I would say it happened but what wa sits significance
Christ knows. Utterly inexplicable.
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You're just being emotive and attempting to stir up trouble on the forum Davel.
If you're unhappy with the way the courts deal with these crimes I suggest you take it up with your MP/MEP.
more rubbish from you making assumptions about me. Are you a parent...that might expalin things
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Christ knows. Utterly inexplicable.
a discussion about breast feeding
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You're just being emotive and attempting to stir up trouble on the forum Davel.
If you're unhappy with the way the courts deal with these crimes I suggest you take it up with your MP/MEP.
in general i think the courts deal with it quite well...i just take issue with thos ewho describe it as petty
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a discussion about breast feeding
Of course. Makes sense in that context, given that MM was nearly 4.
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Of course. Makes sense in that context, given that MM was nearly 4.
Wrong.
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Of course. Makes sense in that context, given that MM was nearly 4.
parents discuss incidents in the past re their children. If you want to believe Gerry was dsicussing the sexual abuse of his own daughter..openly in front of the gaspars...then thats up to you
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parents discuss incidents in the past re their children. If you want to believe Gerry was dsicussing the sexual abuse of his own dauhjter..openly in front of the gaspars...then thats up to you
And of course if he was, then this makes him a shoe-in for body occulter, unlike sweet little CB, who only done rape, torture, child molestation and other such petty crimes.
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parents discuss incidents in the past re their children. If you want to believe Gerry was dsicussing the sexual abuse of his own daughter..openly in front of the gaspars...then thats up to you
I'm sure you do. A bit odd, but crack on.
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Wrong.
Wrong about MM’s age or wrong that it was a discussion about breast feeding?
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Wrong about MM’s age or wrong that it was a discussion about breast feeding?
I think breast feeding is far more likely...it totally fits the afcts...than Gerry discussing the sexual abuse of his daughter openly with Dr gasper in attendance...I don't think her husband agreed with her
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I think breast feeding is far more likely...it totally fits the afcts...than Gerry discussing the sexual abuse of his daughter openly with Dr gasper in attendance...I don't think her husband agreed with her
But reportedly he was asked to be extra vigilant with regards to ensuring there was an additional adult there at bath time, all the same. Does he comment on that request or just his wife - I honestly can’t remember.
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This is a Brueckner Thread. Take comments on The Gaspers to the right place.
I shall be deleting any further Gaspar Comments.
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And of course if he was, then this makes him a shoe-in for body occulter, unlike sweet little CB, who only done rape, torture, child molestation and other such petty crimes.
Sentences are usually commensurate with the severity of crimes committed. Save the rape charge to date CB's custodial sentences have amounted to months as opposed to years/decades/life.
The rape charge is yet to be imposed. If/when imposed it amounts to 7 years when the maximum possible is 15 years. I have asked previously why such a lenient sentence when the crime appears to involve aggravating factors such as pre-planning and "torture"?
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This is a Brueckner Thread. Take comments on The Gaspers to the right place.
I shall be deleting any further Gaspar Comments.
*%^^&
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Sentences are usually commensurate with the severity of crimes committed. Save the rape charge to date CB's custodial sentences have amounted to months as opposed to years/decades/life.
The rape charge is yet to be imposed. If/when imposed it amounts to 7 years when the maximum possible is 15 years. I have asked previously why such a lenient sentence when the crime appears to involve aggravating factors such as pre-planning and "torture"?
You would need to ask the judge. A rape in Portugal attracted only a suspended sentence...does that mean it was only a petty crime
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You would need to ask the judge. A rape in Portugal attracted only a suspended sentence...does that mean it was only a petty crime
I’m sorry but please can you stop implying that Holly is calling rape or child abuse “petty”. She clearly isn’t saying that imo. She is asking genuine questions about CB’s convictions.
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*%^^&
Thank You for complying.
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I’m sorry but please can you stop implying that Holly is calling rape or child abuse “petty”. She clearly isn’t saying that imo. She is asking genuine questions about CB’s convictions.
Holly has clearly stated that Breukners has only been found guilty of petty crimes...I don't class paedophilia as a petty crime. holly is quite able to clarify this ...it is Holly who is implying paedophilia as a petty crime
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I think its quite worrying that two posters here see paedophilia as petty
I think you've misunderstood their posts. Holly was clearly speaking about the courts;
Seems to me the courts regard these crimes as 'petty' if not they would impose custodial sentences.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607021#msg607021
Barrier was also taking about the authorities, not himself;
I can link to another where 250,000 images were found, the police stopped counting,he also received a suspended sentence.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607020#msg607020
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I think you've misunderstood their posts. Holly was clearly speaking about the courts;
Seems to me the courts regard these crimes as 'petty' if not they would impose custodial sentences.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607021#msg607021
Barrier was also taking about the authorities, not himself;
I can link to another where 250,000 images were found, the police stopped counting,he also received a suspended sentence.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607020#msg607020
I've misunderstood nothing you have...I will supply the link shortly where Holly is quite clear
Holly posted..
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
rather than admit her mistake holly tried to show courts see paedophilia as a petty crime
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=18.0
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I've misunderstood nothing you have...I will supply the link shortly where Holly is quite clear
Please do. It's not acceptable to accuse other members unless you have evidence to support them.
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Please do. It's not acceptable to accuse other members unless you have evidence to support them.
I wouldn't do it unless I had proof...never mind evidence...you obviously didn't see the post
uote from: Davel on July 05, 2020, 07:14:57 PM
I think its quite possible he was involved based what his friends have said...based on his previous convictions...but it depends what this concrete evidence is. Im sure you are aware of the phrase..."the police are not looking for anyone else in this case"
It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
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I wouldn't do it unless I had proof...never mind evidence...you obviously didn't see the post
uote from: Davel on July 05, 2020, 07:14:57 PM
I think its quite possible he was involved based what his friends have said...based on his previous convictions...but it depends what this concrete evidence is. Im sure you are aware of the phrase..."the police are not looking for anyone else in this case"
It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
Thank you, although I'm not sure that proves the poster believes that paedophilia is a petty crime.
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Thank you, although I'm not sure that proves the poster believes that paedophilia is a petty crime.
You would need to read the whole exchange of posts to have a valid opinion. I don't see any reason to try and argue that courts see paedophilia as a petty offence...I don't see that they do
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You would need to read the whole exchange of posts to have a valid opinion. I don't see any reason to try and argue that courts see paedophilia as a petty offence...I don't see that they do
Thousands of men go before the courts in developed democratic countries for possession of child pornograpgy, indecent exposure and child molestation which do not even result in custodial sentences.
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-with-child-porn-given-suspended-sentence-4943658-Dec2019/
https://www.cps.gov.uk/west-midlands/news/former-parliamentary-candidate-given-suspended-sentence-child-sexual-abuse
http://www.ekathimerini.com/239160/article/ekathimerini/news/man-convicted-of-child-molestation-handed-suspended-sentence
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Any posts that refer to members here as paedophile apologists will be removed on sight. Those that persist will receive warning points.
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Thousands of men go before the courts in developed democratic countries for possession of child pornograpgy, indecent exposure and child molestation which do not even result in custodial sentences.
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-with-child-porn-given-suspended-sentence-4943658-Dec2019/
https://www.cps.gov.uk/west-midlands/news/former-parliamentary-candidate-given-suspended-sentence-child-sexual-abuse
http://www.ekathimerini.com/239160/article/ekathimerini/news/man-convicted-of-child-molestation-handed-suspended-sentence
I understand that...there was a rape in Portugal that resulted in a suspended sentence...that doesn't make rape a petty crime.
Just to clear up the supposed misunderstanding do you see paedophilia as a petty crime
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Seems like now they are saying they have no evidence to charge him surprise surprise.
Although I know it has already been posted its the bit about the mccs that has surprised me now you can read it in full.
Despite the recent call for witnesses to "Case number XY ... unresolved", the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig does not have enough incriminating material in Madeleine McCann's case for an arrest warrant against the German Christian B. "Spiegel" reports this, citing the responsible public prosecutor Christian Wolters. He is quoted as saying that "there is currently no urgent suspicion". The investigators presented 43-year-old B. as a suspect at the beginning of June. The sex offender, who has been convicted several times, is silent on the allegations.
So far, no body has been found. British authorities have therefore announced that they believe it is possible that the girl who disappeared in 2007 is still alive. The case had caused a sensation worldwide, also because the parents of the then three-year-old child did nothing for years to find their daughter.
https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Kein-dringender-Verdacht-gegen-Christian-B-article21889317.html?fbclid=IwAR3qUzJwj7q_KCWg2OmevC4tPSlX3cseyao4Ajs6BrH4yM5ApQeSJekRsR8
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Seems like now they are saying they have no evidence to charge him surprise surprise.
Although I know it has already been posted its the bit about the mccs that has surprised me now you can read it in full.
Despite the recent call for witnesses to "Case number XY ... unresolved", the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig does not have enough incriminating material in Madeleine McCann's case for an arrest warrant against the German Christian B. "Spiegel" reports this, citing the responsible public prosecutor Christian Wolters. He is quoted as saying that "there is currently no urgent suspicion". The investigators presented 43-year-old B. as a suspect at the beginning of June. The sex offender, who has been convicted several times, is silent on the allegations.
So far, no body has been found. British authorities have therefore announced that they believe it is possible that the girl who disappeared in 2007 is still alive. The case had caused a sensation worldwide, also because the parents of the then three-year-old child did nothing for years to find their daughter.
https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Kein-dringender-Verdacht-gegen-Christian-B-article21889317.html?fbclid=IwAR3qUzJwj7q_KCWg2OmevC4tPSlX3cseyao4Ajs6BrH4yM5ApQeSJekRsR8
" British authorities have therefore announced that they believe it is possible that the girl who disappeared in 2007 is still alive "
I reckon it would cost the current DCI his pension to say otherwise 8(0(*
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Direct quote from the NTV article above...
"The case had caused a sensation worldwide, also because the parents of the then three-year-old child did nothing for years to find their daughter."
it does make you wonder if SY has been doing nothing ...a really strange think to say.
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Seems like now they are saying they have no evidence to charge him surprise surprise.
Although I know it has already been posted its the bit about the mccs that has surprised me now you can read it in full.
Despite the recent call for witnesses to "Case number XY ... unresolved", the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig does not have enough incriminating material in Madeleine McCann's case for an arrest warrant against the German Christian B. "Spiegel" reports this, citing the responsible public prosecutor Christian Wolters. He is quoted as saying that "there is currently no urgent suspicion". The investigators presented 43-year-old B. as a suspect at the beginning of June. The sex offender, who has been convicted several times, is silent on the allegations.
So far, no body has been found. British authorities have therefore announced that they believe it is possible that the girl who disappeared in 2007 is still alive. The case had caused a sensation worldwide, also because the parents of the then three-year-old child did nothing for years to find their daughter.
https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Kein-dringender-Verdacht-gegen-Christian-B-article21889317.html?fbclid=IwAR3qUzJwj7q_KCWg2OmevC4tPSlX3cseyao4Ajs6BrH4yM5ApQeSJekRsR8
As you've posted it and think it's important could you explain what....no urgent suspicion...means
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The case had caused a sensation worldwide, also because the parents of the then three-year-old child did nothing for years to find their daughter.
it does make you wonder if SY has been doing nothing ...a really strange think to say.
That's obviously rubbish you are posting
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As you've posted it and think it's important could you explain what....no urgent suspicion...means
Well it's clearly lost in translation. He meant there's no real urgency.
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As you've posted it and think it's important could you explain what....no urgent suspicion...means
Just what it says....no urgent suspicion.
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Well it's clearly lost in translation. He meant there's no real urgency.
I agree..because he's locked up..so nothing of interest in the article
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Well it's clearly lost in translation. He meant there's no real urgency.
Apart from at the beginning there never seems to have been any urgency about the case, which is strange. If a live child is being sought, you would have thought there would be the utmost urgency.
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Just what it says....no urgent suspicion.
It doesn't make any sense...as the general has pointed out
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I understand that...there was a rape in Portugal that resulted in a suspended sentence...that doesn't make rape a petty crime.
Just to clear up the supposed misunderstanding do you see paedophilia as a petty crime
I was referring to the charge sheet presented by the DM and a reference to:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8417001/Portugal-NEVER-interviewed-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-disappearance.html
'The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he'd been convicted of which didn't raise any alarm bells in May 2007.'
I'm not going to answer your question when my posts make quite clear my views on paedophilia and all you're attempting to do is score cheap points.
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It doesn't make any sense...as the general has pointed out
Well, a month ago they had him tried and convicted it seemed as if he was the abductor.
Now it seems to me they are losing interest as nothing is urgent any more as in they haven't got what they were hoping to get.
IMO its the boy from Cologne they were more interested in ...but Maddie is known worldwide and it paid off because the UK Media jumped on it straight away
It makes you wonder as well what part SY are playing in all this....why are they asking for more money.
What part are they playing I doubt very much they are paying the germans or putting up the reward money.
When it seems like the germans doing all the work
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DCI Mark Cranwell is on record saying the MET had worked on the CB theory for 2 years!
I think the public appeal amounted to a fishing expedition hoping that someone or something would turn up.
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Wrong about MM’s age or wrong that it was a discussion about breast feeding?
Wrong about the age Madeleine was at the time of the discussion and who knows what was being discussed though it was probably something dodgy as you'd expect when two paedo dads get together for a chinwag*.
*Joke.
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Sentences are usually commensurate with the severity of crimes committed. Save the rape charge to date CB's custodial sentences have amounted to months as opposed to years/decades/life.
The rape charge is yet to be imposed. If/when imposed it amounts to 7 years when the maximum possible is 15 years. I have asked previously why such a lenient sentence when the crime appears to involve aggravating factors such as pre-planning and "torture"?
You're asking the wrong people mate
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I was referring to the charge sheet presented by the DM and a reference to:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8417001/Portugal-NEVER-interviewed-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-disappearance.html
'The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he'd been convicted of which didn't raise any alarm bells in May 2007.'
I'm not going to answer your question when my posts make quite clear my views on paedophilia and all you're attempting to do is score cheap points.
You do your credibility more damage by not answerring the question
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DCI Mark Cranwell is on record saying the MET had worked on the CB theory for 2 years!
I think the public appeal amounted to a fishing expedition hoping that someone or something would turn up.
I think something has turned up...the concrete evidence...we will just have to wait and see.
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You do your credibility more damage by not answerring the question
I refuse to get embroiled in your attempt to goad and score cheap points save to say if you think my posts could in any way be seen to condone child sex abuse, in any form, I could level the same accusation at yourself over child neglect in terms of the Mc's leaving their 3 young children night after night in an unsecured apartment.
We'll leave it there.
Any further posts re accusing other members of condoning child sex abuse/neglect will be removed on sight. Repeat offenders will receive warning points.
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I refuse to get embroiled in your attempt to goad and score cheap points save to say if you think my posts could in any way be seen to condone child sex abuse, in any form, I could level the same accusation at yourself over child neglect in terms of the Mc's leaving their 3 young children night after night in an unsecured apartment.
We'll leave it there.
Any further posts re accusing other members of condoning child sex abuse/neglect will be removed on sight. Repeat offenders will receive warning points.
Not condoning - minimising, playing down. You are going to some lengths to portray CB as nothing more than a petty criminal. Why?
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I refuse to get embroiled in your attempt to goad and score cheap points save to say if you think my posts could in any way be seen to condone child sex abuse, in any form, I could level the same accusation at yourself over child neglect in terms of the Mc's leaving their 3 young children night after night in an unsecured apartment.
We'll leave it there.
Any further posts re accusing other members of condoning child sex abuse/neglect will be removed on sight. Repeat offenders will receive warning points.
I don't think the McCanns should have left their children..so please do not accuse me of condoning child negelect.
I hope you will remove on sight anymore posts accusing me of condoning child neglect
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I refuse to get embroiled in your attempt to goad and score cheap points save to say if you think my posts could in any way be seen to condone child sex abuse, in any form, I could level the same accusation at yourself over child neglect in terms of the Mc's leaving their 3 young children night after night in an unsecured apartment.
We'll leave it there.
Any further posts re accusing other members of condoning child sex abuse/neglect will be removed on sight. Repeat offenders will receive warning points.
Well said Holly. Should have happened pages back.
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Well said Holly. Should have happened pages back.
I think alot should have happened pages back
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from the Mirror today...
A mother has told how Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner chillingly spoke to her daughter while exposing himself in a playground.
Brueckner was caught with his trousers down under a slide in San Bartolomeu de Messines, 40 miles from Praia da Luz, Portugal, where Madeleine, three, went missing.
He was arrested in 2017 for carrying out a sex act in front of four youngsters.
what a horrible vile person
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Apart from at the beginning there never seems to have been any urgency about the case, which is strange. If a live child is being sought, you would have thought there would be the utmost urgency.
It would be great if they would provide some evidence of a 'live child' just as the McCanns demand evidence of a dead child. With Great urgency, do they have any clues as to where this live child may be? well No, if they did she would be found.
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I refuse to get embroiled in your attempt to goad and score cheap points save to say if you think my posts could in any way be seen to condone child sex abuse, in any form, I could level the same accusation at yourself over child neglect in terms of the Mc's leaving their 3 young children night after night in an unsecured apartment.
We'll leave it there.
Any further posts re accusing other members of condoning child sex abuse/neglect will be removed on sight. Repeat offenders will receive warning points.
Agreed, bang out of order. Well said.
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It would be great if they would provide some evidence of a 'live child' just as the McCanns demand evidence of a dead child. With Great urgency, do they have any clues as to where this live child may be? well No, if they did she would be found.
Seems Fritz has evidence shes dead and the perps bannged up in Stalag 17....so unless hes digging a tunnel under the vaulting horse...theres no rush
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from the Mirror today...
A mother has told how Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner chillingly spoke to her daughter while exposing himself in a playground.
Brueckner was caught with his trousers down under a slide in San Bartolomeu de Messines, 40 miles from Praia da Luz, Portugal, where Madeleine, three, went missing.
He was arrested in 2017 for carrying out a sex act in front of four youngsters.
what a horrible vile person
Aww, come on, he was only fiddling with himself in front of young children - hardly the crime of the century as Jassi pointed out the other day.
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Aww, come on, he was only fiddling with himself in front of young children - hardly the crime of the century as Jassi pointed out the other day.
Perhaps hes guilty of the crime of the century.
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Perhaps hes guilty of the crime of the century.
Oh do you think he is right wing facist or racist? thems the real crimes.
I would not be the least upset if an accident should befall that creature. Why this is/was not treated with the seriousness I believe it deserves is shameful. However, when it comes to rape and sexual assaults against women and children the courts just don't seem to place them high on the crime list. Some people get off very lightly for sourcing child porn. More disturbingly, there is a huge market for this kind of crime!
I could be convinced he knows something- just not convinced he is the ONE.
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Oh do you think he is right wing facist or racist? thems the real crimes.
I would not be the least upset if an accident should befall that creature. Why this is/was not treated with the seriousness I believe it deserves is shameful. However, when it comes to rape and sexual assaults against women and children the courts just don't seem to place them high on the crime list. Some people get off very lightly for sourcing child porn. More disturbingly, there is a huge market for this kind of crime!
I could be convinced he knows something- just not convinced he is the ONE.
So you wouldn't rule him out...as others seem to want to
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So you wouldn't rule him out...as others seem to want to
I would rule him out as being an abductor of MBM. on the basis of the time line and witness statements, and lack of any physical evidence of the window entry/exit., as claimed by the parents.
As a paedophile, he may know something or has seen something.
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I would rule him out as being an abductor of MBM. on the basis of the time line and witness statements, and lack of any physical evidence of the window entry/exit., as claimed by the parents.
As a paedophile, he may know something or has seen something.
How would Maddie have got into the hands of s paedophiles apart fro abduction
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Oh do you think he is right wing facist or racist? thems the real crimes.
I would not be the least upset if an accident should befall that creature. Why this is/was not treated with the seriousness I believe it deserves is shameful. However, when it comes to rape and sexual assaults against women and children the courts just don't seem to place them high on the crime list. Some people get off very lightly for sourcing child porn. More disturbingly, there is a huge market for this kind of crime!
I could be convinced he knows something- just not convinced he is the ONE.
I don't want him to suffer any kind of accident. I want him cossetted in cotton wool ... I don't want a thing to happen to a hair of his head. I want to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann or anyone else he might have some knowledge about and like the Germans, until eliminated by the evidence, he is my prime suspect too at the moment.
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I don't want him to suffer any kind of accident. I want him cossetted in cotton wool ... I don't want a thing to happen to a hair of his head. I want to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann or anyone else he might have some knowledge about and like the Germans, until eliminated by the evidence, he is my prime suspect too at the moment.
Well I doubt he is going to get the luxury of being cossetted in cotton wool B
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Well I doubt he is going to get the luxury of being cossetted in cotton wool B
As I understand he is being kept in solitary
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Hewlett’s criminal record was just as horrific, we had stories from friends and he wasn’t far from PDL on the 3rd of May yet he had no part in Madeleine’s disappearance. Brueckner could be another Hewlett.
There is no concrete evidence or the German police would have charged him.
You come across desperate that CHristian Bruerbeck won’t be charged: why is that?
Don’t you think given his previous, plus the evidence they have so far makes him a prime suspect? Or do you think he should get away with it, even though you’ve no idea at all where he was that night? His phone placed him outside: he has no alibi...yet you roar that he’s not guilty until proven so. How do you think police find suspects before charging them? They’re not guilty until they’ve been to court.
Every single person I’ve spoken to have all said he’s a despicable, vile paedophile (and that’s been proven — he even pleaded guilty) so why do you take this stance?
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I don't want him to suffer any kind of accident. I want him cossetted in cotton wool ... I don't want a thing to happen to a hair of his head. I want to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann or anyone else he might have some knowledge about and like the Germans, until eliminated by the evidence, he is my prime suspect too at the moment.
"eliminated by the evidence "
What evidence is there of him entering the apartment via a window- grabbing MBM leaving via same window . Running off into the night with a 'sleeping' 4 year old child with not one witness? Would you like to take a stab at pinpointing when this could have occurred within the T9 Timeline?
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"eliminated by the evidence "
What evidence is there of him entering the apartment via a window- grabbing MBM leaving via same window . Running off into the night with a 'sleeping' 4 year old child with not one witness? Would you like to take a stab at pinpointing when this could have occurred within the T9 Timeline?
How do you know he entered and left via the window?
We’re you there?
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
These things take time...do you think they’d wrap it up within days? Please, don’t be silly
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You come across desperate that CHristian Bruerbeck won’t be charged: why is that?
Don’t you think given his previous, plus the evidence they have so far makes him a prime suspect? Or do you think he should get away with it, even though you’ve no idea at all where he was that night? His phone placed him outside: he has no alibi...yet you roar that he’s not guilty until proven so. How do you think police find suspects before charging them? They’re not guilty until they’ve been to court.
Every single person I’ve spoken to have all said he’s a despicable, vile paedophile (and that’s been proven — he even pleaded guilty) so why do you take this stance?
He lived in the area so why wouldn't his phone be with him?
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I don't think he's involved in MM's disappeance.
I've always thought OG will be wound up next year when MM turns 18 yoa.
You don’t think Jeremy Bamber is guilty, either, despite him being found guilty 35 years ago & having lost several appeals...
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How do you know he entered and left via the window?
We’re you there?
"I'm not going into the detail, but I can say that Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape, and to do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily."
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/mccann-family-reverse-story-over-break-in-evidence-26327114.html
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Madeleine is ward of court, imo thats the reason OG can't go with her death, its up to the court to decide, obviously no evidence or the Germans haven't produced it.
Being a ward of court has nothing whatsoever to do with finding the murderer of MM, and the German police update regularly to say CB killed her...
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Being a ward of court has nothing whatsoever to do with finding the murderer of MM, and the German police update regularly to say CB killed her...
They say he killed her but can't even arrest him for questioning. That's a load of bollox!
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Hewlett’s criminal record was just as horrific, we had stories from friends and he wasn’t far from PDL on the 3rd of May yet he had no part in Madeleine’s disappearance. Brueckner could be another Hewlett.
There is no concrete evidence or the German police would have charged him.
The German police have said they do indeed have evidence CB killed Maddie, and even know how he did it
Maybe you’re not au fait with criminal proceedings, but the police like to obtain every bit of evidence before charging a prime suspect with murder.
They’re not going to publicly reveal everything they know...they’re not THICK. They don’t reveal everything for nonentities to start posting ludicrous “armchair detective” disputes that he may be innocent on website forums...
Your views are of no relevance...and when CB is charged they’ll still be irrelevant.
You don’t know him
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It's all tabloid/media fodder imo which you see with all these cases. The tabloids would have us believe Amanda Knox was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher on the basis she performed some cartwheels shortly afterwards:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-did-cartwheels-after-merediths-death-28468668.html
I doubt very much his previous amounts to anything other than petty crime.
There was a whole heap more evidence against that Fox woman than cartwheels
You seem to always side with the accused or convicted: why is that?
Aftearl all, SOMEONE murdered these victims...yet you say the prime suspects never did....weird.
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Being a ward of court has nothing whatsoever to do with finding the murderer of MM, and the German police update regularly to say CB killed her...
update regularly to say CB killed her...
Keep up ...they seem to be backtracking now.
Despite the recent call for witnesses to "Case number XY ... unresolved", the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig does not have enough incriminating material in Madeleine McCann's case for an arrest warrant against the German Christian B. "Spiegel" reports this, citing the responsible public prosecutor Christian Wolters. He is quoted as saying that "there is currently no urgent suspicion". The investigators presented 43-year-old B. as a suspect at the beginning of June. The sex offender, who has been convicted several times, is silent on the allegations.
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Then I think your judgement is extremely poor....unless you think rape and paedophilia are trivial...and then I know your judgement is poor
If Holly thinks child sex abuse and raping/torturing an elderly woman is trivial It makes one wonder what she thinks of Bamber shooting dead all his family? Maybe she thinks it was a peccadillo and he should have just got a slapped wrist...
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What on EARTH are you on about? On what grounds have you decided that his convictions for child abuse and rape are bogus?
Holly hasn’t assimilated it, maybe?
Same way she point blank refuses to believe what JB did.
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Thats merely your opinion...and imo an opinion based on ignorance
Strange how he denies facts the German police have stated...
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Your constant use of insults does you no favours.
Every other police force in the world charge a suspect when they have concrete evidence, the Germans aren’t. What other reason could explain this other than no concrete evidence?
Giddy up....
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Neither has CB's.
Wow, how you dispute facts is hilarious
You do it all the time
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Holly hasn’t assimilated it, maybe?
Same way she point blank refuses to believe what JB did.
This is not The Jeremy Bamber Forum, so leave it out, if you please.
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I agree. However, Hewlett’s phone had not been traced to the vicinity of 5A.
Yards away...Just YARDS away...
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Not 5a PDL. There is a difference.
I know that you are quite keen on Brueckner as the culprit. Would you be happy with the termination of OG ?
What don’t you understand about “being in the vicinity - just yards away” from the crime scene?
What do you think Christian Buerbeck was actually DOING hanging around for an hour by the complex? He wasn’t with anyone; wasn’t eating or drinking anywhere nearby; so what was he doing just hanging around outside?
Do YOU stand outside holiday complexes at night on a street, when it’s nippy and windy talking on your mobile for half an hour?
Why wouldn’t you be sat in your car?
In a restaurant or bar?
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What don’t you understand about “being in the vicinity - just yards away” from the crime scene?
What do you think Christian Buerbeck was actually DOING hanging around for an hour by the complex? He wasn’t with anyone; wasn’t eating or drinking anywhere nearby; so what was he doing just hanging around outside?
Do YOU stand outside holiday complexes at night on a street, when it’s nippy and windy talking on your mobile for half an hour?
Why wouldn’t you be sat in your car?
In a restaurant or bar?
How do you know he wasn't in a car?
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He is 43 yoa and for most of his life he has been a free man. If he was committing serious offences he would have spent large chunks of his life incarcerated.
As it happens, CB has seventeen convictions and has indeed spent terms in prison
He’s even had INTERPOL arresting him TWICE ...that’s more than pinching a tankful of fuel.
He’s been sent back to Germany TWICE by the police..not for pinching apples off a tree...
Interpol don’t look for “petty offenders” like you’re trying to pretend he is
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So the child abuse and rape convictions are petty crimes or didn’t happen, is that what you are saying?
I’m absolutely sickened that Holly says Christian Buerbeck’s crimes of child sexual abuse are TRIVIAL??
My God, how can ANYONE say that?!!!!!
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I believe the masts around PDL wouldn’t have been that precise.
Are you knowledgable enough to know that, eh?
The German police have used experts in their field of competence, and here’s you saying they’re wrong...
Why don’t you contact the GP and tell them they’re wrong?
What’s your career, out of curiosity?
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"eliminated by the evidence "
What evidence is there of him entering the apartment via a window- grabbing MBM leaving via same window . Running off into the night with a 'sleeping' 4 year old child with not one witness? Would you like to take a stab at pinpointing when this could have occurred within the T9 Timeline?
a child was snatched from a bath in the Uk whilst her mother popped into another room. you seem fixated by the window...he amy have entered by it...it seems thht was his MO for burglary but left by the front door.
If hed planned the burglary or abduction best time would be early on. Could have been straight after gerrys 9.05 check....
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As it happens, CB has seventeen convictions and has indeed spent terms in prison
He’s even had INTERPOL arresting him TWICE ...that’s more than pinching a tankful of fuel.
He’s been sent back to Germany TWICE by the police..not for pinching apples off a tree...
Interpol don’t look for “petty offenders” like you’re trying to pretend he is
Keep up the good work...you're getting on some poeples nerves...thats not a bad thing. Say it like it is
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Yards away...Just YARDS away...
Who said that? Apart from you, of course.
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when was the last time maddie was actually seen in her bed by any of the tapas
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And yet it seems the Portuguese convicted him of fuel theft?
Portugal is a modern democratic country where the rule of law applies. Its not some under developed, lawless, sub-saharan African state.
Have you been to Portugal m Holly?
I have.
I think it’s backwards in many, many ways...Just my opinion comparing it to many countries all over the world.
For starters, hardly any of them are taught English in schools, hence why so few speak it; unlike most countries who learn English like we do French.
Many are poor with very low incomes, which leaves them vulnerable to the enticement of crime.
Oh, I’m not going to send this thread off topic, but Portugal is certainly not the modern democratic country you suggest it is. Nor are they all law-abiding. Even some of the top people in police, government and business are known to be corrupt. Have you read about the appalling paedophile rings out there and how it’s a magnet for evil paedos? Why d’you think paedos go there? Eh?
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he committed rape in portugal...he's been found guilty of that
he exposed himself to children and masturbated in front of them in portugal...no charges
Yes, Davel...that’s all been proven and records show it
The Portuguese Police have it on file
But you’ll still get FlatEarther type characters whose brains are on 5% battery who can’t grasp that.
Shame you can’t reboot brains after charging up to 100%
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There is no mention of the rape conviction because although he was found guilty on overwhelming evidence he has appealed on a technicality re his extradition for the trial...he carried out the rape.
It’s all in B&W, Davel
Why can’t Holly grasp it???
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It’s all in B&W, Davel
Why can’t Holly grasp it???
Holly is entitled to her opinions.
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These people need to take it up with law enforcement then especially now they can put a name to the face.
They did
And Christian Buerbeck was found guilty
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Where are the press reports from Germany and Portugal reporting on the trial and conviction?
You said you didn’t trust press reports
So why ask for them?
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I've read it previously and used the search facility for the German paper but unable to turn anything up for the rape:
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/suche/
FGS....even HE admits to it!
What’s your beef?
BTW, not sure if it’s you or Gunit, but I’ve been sent two warnings within just one hour...for sweet fanny adams
If this carries on I’ll just post on Twitter...
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update regularly to say CB killed her...
Keep up ...they seem to be backtracking now.
Despite the recent call for witnesses to "Case number XY ... unresolved", the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig does not have enough incriminating material in Madeleine McCann's case for an arrest warrant against the German Christian B. "Spiegel" reports this, citing the responsible public prosecutor Christian Wolters. He is quoted as saying that "there is currently no urgent suspicion". The investigators presented 43-year-old B. as a suspect at the beginning of June. The sex offender, who has been convicted several times, is silent on the allegations.
In translation, context is important. Since Brückner will not be granted parole, German authorities ‘don’t see any urgency’ because he is not going anywhere soon.
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In translation, context is important. Since Brückner will not be granted parole, German authorities ‘don’t see any urgency’ because he is not going anywhere soon.
precisely
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Direct quote from the NTV article above...
"The case had caused a sensation worldwide, also because the parents of the then three-year-old child did nothing for years to find their daughter."
it does make you wonder if SY has been doing nothing ...a really strange think to say.
For the benefit of my fellow mods, I have restored this post as it is a direct translation from the German NTV Panorama article.
I find it very interesting that the Germans have picked up on this point that the parents never actually went searching for Maddie but encouraged others to do it for them.
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In translation, context is important. Since Brückner will not be granted parole, German authorities ‘don’t see any urgency’ because he is not going anywhere soon.
I wouldn't count on it.
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For the benefit of my fellow mods, I have restored this post as it is a direct translation from the German NTV Panorama article.
I find it very interesting that the Germans have picked up on this point that the parents never actually went searching for Maddie but encouraged others to do it for them.
It doesnt say that though does it...it says they did nothing to find their daughter...which isnt true. Do you have a link to the statement in german and in context
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‘I know that you are quite keen on Brueckner as the culprit’.
Faithlilly, I would hate for Brückner to be the ‘culprit’ for obvious reasons. What is your take on this?
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It doesnt say that though does it...it says they did nothing to find their daughter...which isnt true. Do you have a link to the statement in german and in context
I would like to see that as well.
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I wouldn't count on it.
Why not?
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I wouldn't count on it.
Then if he is released he may well be arrested...we will have to wait and see. The point is there is no urgency to arrest or question him at the moment
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As it happens, CB has seventeen convictions and has indeed spent terms in prison
He’s even had INTERPOL arresting him TWICE ...that’s more than pinching a tankful of fuel.
He’s been sent back to Germany TWICE by the police..not for pinching apples off a tree...
Interpol don’t look for “petty offenders” like you’re trying to pretend he is
Interpol is an office based resource, they don't do arrests or look for anyone.
"There are no Interpol agents. Interpol is an international association of governments with the mission of assisting and coordinating law enforcement efforts among its members. It has no police powers itself. Each member country designates a point of contact, a liaison to the other members."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Interpol
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I would like to see that as well.
It was posted on the thread earlier.
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For the benefit of my fellow mods, I have restored this post as it is a direct translation from the German NTV Panorama article.
I find it very interesting that the Germans have picked up on this point that the parents never actually went searching for Maddie but encouraged others to do it for them.
the fact is that it is atranslation...and if its as bad as...no urgent suspicion...it may well not be accurate
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It was posted on the thread earlier.
Does it say that The McCanns never went searching. I don't think so.
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It was posted on the thread earlier.
do you have a link to the original..its unrelaible without a link
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I've read it previously and used the search facility for the German paper but unable to turn anything up for the rape:
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/suche/
Spritsch oder liest du Deutsch, Holly?
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Press reports would be a start to show a trial actually took place.
He leaned guilty
No trial
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Does it say that The McCanns never went searching. I don't think so.
It stated that the parents never went looking for years.
"Der Fall hatte weltweit für Aufsehen gesorgt, auch weil die Eltern des damals dreijährigen Kindes jahrelang nichts unternommen hatten, um ihre Tochter zu finden."
https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Kein-dringender-Verdacht-gegen-Christian-B-article21889317.html?fbclid=IwAR3qUzJwj7q_KCWg2OmevC4tPSlX3cseyao4Ajs6BrH4yM5ApQeSJekRsR8
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do you have a link to the original..its unrelaible without a link
No, I think VS might have posted it. I know I read it.
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It stated that the parents never went looking for years.
I would say its obviously wrong
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I would say its obviously wrong
I would say it's totally correct. 8(0(*
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Theres a German reporter who followed the case closely...I could dig her name out but I really can't be bothered.
If holly wants to think this is all another 911hoax she's best left to it
Bettina Thoenes, a reporter for the Braunschweiger Zeitung, who followed the rape trial, described him as “a man of intelligent appearance, dressed in a simple grey shirt and slightly oversized jeans”. She said he was eloquent, and quoted frequently from legal text books
Yes, he read up on “all his legal rights”!
Cunning, sly, slippery...he will fight to the death.
He’s a twisted freak and he’ll be taken out, I suspect
Someone will get him
Inmates despise nonces/child murderers...and whilst those inmates may be conmen & crooks, they don’t have any sympathy at all for evil s..m like that...and who does, except warped misfits?
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I would say it's totally correct. 8(0(*
then we disagree..
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FGS....even HE admits to it!
What’s your beef?
BTW, not sure if it’s you or Gunit, but I’ve been sent two warnings within just one hour...for sweet fanny adams
If this carries on I’ll just post on Twitter...
You were given one warning today for repeatedly bringing up Bamber on the McCann board. Didn't you read the message from John earlier.
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then we disagree..
The McCanns couldn't get out of Portugal quick enough and only slipped back to attend the libel trial involving Amaral. They themselves have made no attempt to search for Maddie in the country unlike the Needhams who travelled constantly to Kos to search for their child.
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you don’t look very hard do you?
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article227897265/Vergewaltigungsprozess-Gericht-setzt-Verfahren-nicht-aus.html
I thought Holly was a sleuth 😳
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Then if he is released he may well be arrested...we will have to wait and see. The point is there is no urgency to arrest or question him at the moment
Let's face it, had there been any incriminating evidence on him they would have wheeled it out long ago for the world to see. As it is, the German prosecutors are looking distinctly silly imo.
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Let's face it, had there been any incriminating evidence on him they would have wheeled it out long ago for the world to see. As it is, the German prosecutors are looking distinctly silly imo.
I obviously dont agree and have explained several times why the germans want to keep thier powder dry. We will see.
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Let's face it, had there been any incriminating evidence on him they would have wheeled it out long ago for the world to see. As it is, the German prosecutors are looking distinctly silly imo.
Not as silly as The PJ.
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That report is actually interesting and explains a lot...
It took the police 13 YEARS before the Portuguese police gave over Christian Buerbecks’s DNA to German police.
I’m not a conspirator, but given how corrupt some of the Portuguese have been in the past, and how they cover up those in top ranks, it makes one wonder how they allowed CB free reign to do almost what he wanted out there...and how they didn’t even question him after Maddie disappeared.
Why would that be, I wonder?
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The McCanns couldn't get out of Portugal quick enough and only slipped back to attend the libel trial involving Amaral. They themselves have made no attempt to search for Maddie in the country unlike the Needhams who travelled constantly to Kos to search for their child.
I disagree with all that too. Its all been discussed before.
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That report is actually interesting and explains a lot...
It took the police 13 YEARS before the Portuguese police gave over Christian Buerbecks’s DNA to German police.
I’m not a conspirator, but given how corrupt some of the Portuguese have been in the past, and how they cover up those in top ranks, it makes one wonder how they allowed CB free reign to do almost what he wanted out there...and how they didn’t even question him after Maddie disappeared.
Why would that be, I wonder?
Hope it was just incompetence.
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Just in case you missed it the first time
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/braunschweig/article227939701/Sieben-Jahre-Haft-wegen-brutaler-Vergewaltigung-in-Portugal.html
Someone’s a sucker for punishment...
How can’t anyone understand CB was charged and convicted of rape?!
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The McCanns couldn't get out of Portugal quick enough and only slipped back to attend the libel trial involving Amaral. They themselves have made no attempt to search for Maddie in the country unlike the Needhams who travelled constantly to Kos to search for their child.
I think your comment is false. Kate has gone back to PdL many times, because she said it is the place where she felt closest to Madeleine.
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This is from the German paper...the verdict
BRUNSWICK. The Braunschweig public prosecutor's office is investigating Maddie McCann's case against a German who was convicted of rape.
I read he admitted killing Maddie..
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The McCanns couldn't get out of Portugal quick enough and only slipped back to attend the libel trial involving Amaral. They themselves have made no attempt to search for Maddie in the country unlike the Needhams who travelled constantly to Kos to search for their child.
the lead detective in teh Needham case didnt write a book accusing the Needhams of guilt. Amaral made sure the McCanns were not welcome in portugal
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Let's face it, had there been any incriminating evidence on him they would have wheeled it out long ago for the world to see. As it is, the German prosecutors are looking distinctly silly imo.
I expect they're busy ploughing through the irrelevances their appeal for information triggered. Such as how he stared at someone;
A British mother-of-one has claimed Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'targeted her' a month after the British three-year old went missing.
Angie Dawes was 32 when she said Brueckner suddenly appeared in the Portuguese village of Foral, Silves, where her family lived...
Ms Dawes told The Sun the paedophile did odd jobs at her family's gated £200,000 home in exchange for showers and meals.
At one point she remembered Brueckner was so obviously staring at her that her father made a comment about him liking her.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395507/British-woman-claims-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-targeted-her.html
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For the benefit of my fellow mods, I have restored this post as it is a direct translation from the German NTV Panorama article.
I find it very interesting that the Germans have picked up on this point that the parents never actually went searching for Maddie but encouraged others to do it for them.
Please note ... the quote is wrong. It is a mistranslation.
Snip
Posted this correction further up:
Its simply a translation mistake. The actual text says:
Der Fall hatte weltweit für Aufsehen gesorgt, auch weil die Eltern des damals dreijährigen Kindes jahrelang nichts unversucht ließen, ihre Tochter doch noch zu finden.
"The case caused a world wide attention, also because the parents of the at the time three year old daughter left nothing untried, in the attempt to find their daughter."
I'm guessing it's the double negation - nichts unversucht / nothing untried - that is causing the misunderstanding. Actually the meaning is that they tried everything. German is super complicated so automatic translations shouldn't be trusted.
Edit: this is the completely literal translation, the more beautiful translation would be something along the lines of:
Because the parents of the then 3 year old daughter left no stone unturned in the attempt of finding her.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/hlolqy/no_evidence_against_christian_b/fx0y2of/
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Please note ... the quote is wrong. It is a mistranslation.
Snip
Posted this correction further up:
Its simply a translation mistake. The actual text says:
Der Fall hatte weltweit für Aufsehen gesorgt, auch weil die Eltern des damals dreijährigen Kindes jahrelang nichts unversucht ließen, ihre Tochter doch noch zu finden.
"The case caused a world wide attention, also because the parents of the at the time three year old daughter left nothing untried, in the attempt to find their daughter."
I'm guessing it's the double negation - nichts unversucht / nothing untried - that is causing the misunderstanding. Actually the meaning is that they tried everything. German is super complicated so automatic translations shouldn't be trusted.
Edit: this is the completely literal translation, the more beautiful translation would be something along the lines of:
Because the parents of the then 3 year old daughter left no stone unturned in the attempt of finding her.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/hlolqy/no_evidence_against_christian_b/fx0y2of/
So the comment repeated previously on this Thread was a totally incorrect translation. And the Deletion should not have been Restored as it was Libel, if not worse.
Thank you.
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So the comment repeated previously on this Thread was a totally incorrect translation. And the Deletion should not have been Restored as it was Libel, if not worse.
Thank you.
It is a complete reversal of what was actually said.
Even if Brueckner is found to be as white as the driven snow ... I am finding it really extraordinary that some posters haven't yet clocked onto thinking that if not him it is highly likely that someone who fits a similar profile to him is a far more feasible candidate for the crime committed against Madeleine than her parents ever were.
The unbridled malice directed towards Kate and Gerry McCann who must be about out of their minds for Madeleine just now is presenting an unedifying impression on me. I simply do not understand it.
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F1 *&(+(+
ww
that he was merely a petty criminal
Christian Buerbeck’s psychiatrist said that CB loved the power he got from raping, and it wasn’t just an age thing although he was attracted to little children : he targeted the weak and vulnerable — young children/older ladies — because that was what gave him s (&^&
He loved to instil fear in them, torture them....and enjoyed playing “God”. That was his ultimate power...
It’s all on YouTube where his psychiatrist speaks about him
CB is a psychopath, and a sadist too. He gets thrills from hurting and inflicting pain.
How anyone in their right mind can jump to defend him simply shows they’re either unintelligent or they too find what he did before Maddie was “petty”. Heaven knows what environment they live in if they fine heinous rape “petty”!
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FGS....even HE admits to it!
What’s your beef?
BTW, not sure if it’s you or Gunit, but I’ve been sent two warnings within just one hour...for sweet fanny adams
If this carries on I’ll just post on Twitter...
Please don't leave us. Your posts are well thought out and refreshing. We need more like you
sadie x
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F1 *&(+(+
Christian Buerbeck’s psychiatrist said that CB loved the power he got from raping, and it wasn’t just an age thing although he was attracted to little children : he targeted the weak and vulnerable — young children/older ladies — because that was what gave him s (&^&
He loved to instil fear in them, torture them....and enjoyed playing “God”. That was his ultimate power...
It’s all on YouTube where his psychiatrist speaks about him
CB is a psychopath, and a sadist too. He gets thrills from hurting and inflicting pain.
How anyone in their right mind can jump to defend him simply shows they’re either unintelligent or they too find what he did before Maddie was “petty”. Heaven knows what environment they live in if they fine heinous rape “petty”!
The person you refer to above isn't CB's psychiatrist. He's a pundit as follows:
https://www.mark-thorben-hofmann.de/en/
These sorts of people are always wheeled out for the media, low budget docu/dramas etc, obviously for a fee!
The 7 year sentence for rape is yet to be imposed and begs the question why so lenient if it involved pre-planning and "torture". The max possible sentence for rape in Germany is, I understand, 15 years.
His crimes against children appear to involve child pornograpgy, no idea at what level, indecent exposure and child molestation?.
There's no evidence linking CB to the disappearance of MM.
No one knows the motive for MM's disappearance.
I'm with former MET officer Ian Horrock's who believes in all liklihood MM was taken by someone to raise as their own. Ian Horrock's spent 30 years in the MET. He also visited PDL to carry out a review for dare I say it... The Sun 8)><(. Anyway his opinions are not to be taken lightly imo:
Ian, in common with the others at BGP had a successful 30 year career within London’s Metropolitan Police, prior to moving to the private sector in 2007.
He is an accredited senior investigating officer for homicide, as well as having experience in high value and multinational fraud and other major crime. For the last five years of his service he led one of Scotland Yard’s Kidnap and Specialist Investigations teams.
He is a qualified and accomplished crime scene examiner and is able to utilise this experience in the assessment of major crime scenes.
Following his retirement from the MPS he was the European Director for a renowned business security and risk consultancy based in Hong Kong. He has since been involved in the provision of security advice and guidance to international corporations and individuals as well as advising on crisis management and business continuity.
From his report into the disappearance on MM:
I still believe on balance that when all the available information is examined logically and objectively, that Madeleine was not taken by a paedophile.
In conclusion, I still obviously cannot dismiss the possibility that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile for a sinister purpose, and that she is now dead. However, I remain of the opinion that this is not the case, and have shown my reasons why. Also, as an investigator, I think it is important to believe that the person you are searching for is alive, however unrealistic some people may think this is. Until such time as a body is found, or there is irrefutable evidence that she is dead, there must always be hope. Hopefully those continuing the investigation continue to share this belief.
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What date did Ian Horrocks give his assessment and what is his view on the matter since Bruckner surfaced as a suspect?
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What date did Ian Horrocks give his assessment and what is his view on the matter since Bruckner surfaced as a suspect?
May 2017.
On what basis would he change his views?
I haven't changed my views. Those that believe Mc's responsible haven't changed their views.
I can't see why anyone would change their views because there's nothing to substantiate claims CB was involved.
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May 2017.
On what basis would he change his views?
I haven't changed my views. Those that believe Mc's responsible haven't changed their views.
I can't see why anyone would change their views because there's nothing to substantiate claims CB was involved.
Correct me if I'm wrong ... but isn't that an amended statement from the original. If so it would show that he tends to update articles as new information becomes available.
I have just checked ... and I am not wrong on this ... so he definitely has shown precedence for going with the flow.
IAN HORROCKS 2 MADELEINE MCCANN REPORTS 03/07/2012 & 14/10/2013 COMPARISON
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Ian_Horrocks.htm
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Correct me if I'm wrong ... but isn't that an amended statement from the original. If so it would show that he tends to update articles as new information becomes available.
I have just checked ... and I am not wrong on this ... so he definitely has shown precedence for going with the flow.
IAN HORROCKS 2 MADELEINE MCCANN REPORTS 03/07/2012 & 14/10/2013 COMPARISON
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Ian_Horrocks.htm
Yes of course he updated his report to reflect the development with 'Tannerman' but his overall views remain unchanged.
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Yes of course he updated his report to reflect the development with 'Tannerman' but his overall views remain unchanged.
He says the idea of a random burglar taking maddie is unlikely and I agree. Do we know what his thoughts are now that Breukner is on the scene...a man with a history of burgary...paedophilia...sexual assault... . I would think this will have altered his views considerably
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The person you refer to above isn't CB's psychiatrist. He's a pundit as follows:
https://www.mark-thorben-hofmann.de/en/
These sorts of people are always wheeled out for the media, low budget docu/dramas etc, obviously for a fee!
The 7 year sentence for rape is yet to be imposed and begs the question why so lenient if it involved pre-planning and "torture". The max possible sentence for rape in Germany is, I understand, 15 years.
His crimes against children appear to involve child pornograpgy, no idea at what level, indecent exposure and child molestation?.
There's no evidence linking CB to the disappearance of MM.
No one knows the motive for MM's disappearance.
I'm with former MET officer Ian Horrock's who believes in all liklihood MM was taken by someone to raise as their own. Ian Horrock's spent 30 years in the MET. He also visited PDL to carry out a review for dare I say it... The Sun 8)><(. Anyway his opinions are not to be taken lightly imo:
Ian, in common with the others at BGP had a successful 30 year career within London’s Metropolitan Police, prior to moving to the private sector in 2007.
He is an accredited senior investigating officer for homicide, as well as having experience in high value and multinational fraud and other major crime. For the last five years of his service he led one of Scotland Yard’s Kidnap and Specialist Investigations teams.
He is a qualified and accomplished crime scene examiner and is able to utilise this experience in the assessment of major crime scenes.
Following his retirement from the MPS he was the European Director for a renowned business security and risk consultancy based in Hong Kong. He has since been involved in the provision of security advice and guidance to international corporations and individuals as well as advising on crisis management and business continuity.
From his report into the disappearance on MM:
I still believe on balance that when all the available information is examined logically and objectively, that Madeleine was not taken by a paedophile.
In conclusion, I still obviously cannot dismiss the possibility that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile for a sinister purpose, and that she is now dead. However, I remain of the opinion that this is not the case, and have shown my reasons why. Also, as an investigator, I think it is important to believe that the person you are searching for is alive, however unrealistic some people may think this is. Until such time as a body is found, or there is irrefutable evidence that she is dead, there must always be hope. Hopefully those continuing the investigation continue to share this belief.
The guilty verdict for rape is a matter of record...as is the violence used. His appeal is due to a legal techicality re his extradition as to whether Germany had the right to try him....nothing to do with challenging the evidence
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He says the idea of a random burglar taking maddie is unlikely and I agree. Do we know what his thoughts are now that Breukner is on the scene...a man with a history of burgary...paedophilia...sexual assault... . I would think this will have altered his views considerably
Why would he change his views when there's nothing to substantiate CB's involvement?
Are you seeing any of the 'sceptics' changing their views?
The fact CB lived in the locale with such a profile is irrelevant unless there's something connecting him to MM's disappearance.
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The guilty verdict for rape is a matter of record...as is the violence used. His appeal is due to a legal techicality re his extradition as to whether Germany had the right to try him....nothing to do with challenging the evidence
I'll reserve judgement until the sentence is imposed.
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I'll reserve judgement until the sentence is imposed.
Shouldn't have too long to wait.
I saw somewhere that the case was going to be heard in the ECJ on 16th July.
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Why would he change his views when there's nothing to substantiate CB's involvement?
Are you seeing any of the 'sceptics' changing their views?
The fact CB lived in the locale with such a profile is irrelevant unless there's something connecting him to MM's disappearance.
Thats your opinion not his.....My opinion is that it would be astonishing if this does not affect his opinion giving the facts we have about Breukner.
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I'll reserve judgement until the sentence is imposed.
Your judgement is of absolutely no importance...the facts are there for all to see. Guilty of a violent rape...appeal on a legal technicality. Many cites alraedy supplied
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What date did Ian Horrocks give his assessment and what is his view on the matter since Bruckner surfaced as a suspect?
The facts revealed re breukner will certainly have to have affected his view...his view will be based on the available evidence and the available evidence has changed
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Shouldn't have too long to wait.
I saw somewhere that the case was going to be heard in the ECJ on 16th July.
Thanks. I've put it in my electronic diary ?>)()< 8(>((
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Your judgement is of absolutely no importance...the facts are there for all to see. Guilty of a violent rape...appeal on a legal technicality. Many cites alraedy supplied
As I said I'll reserve judgement.
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If the appeal goes in his favour, can he be tried again for this crime ?
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The facts revealed re breukner will certainly have to have affected his view...his view will be based on the available evidence and the available evidence has changed
He has considered paedophiles and burglars and paedophile/burglars and in his opinion MM was taken by someone to raise as own. No new evidence has surfaced to alter his views. CB living in the locale is meaningless given there's nothing that connects him with MM's disappearance.
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If the appeal goes in his favour, can he be tried again for this crime ?
I doubt anyone here can give adefinitive answer but I would think he could....we will know soon. I would think double jeapordy only applies when found innocent
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He has considered paedophiles and burglars and paedophile/burglars and in his opinion MM was taken by someone to raise as own. No new evidence has surfaced to alter his views. CB living in the locale is meaningless given there's nothing that connects him with MM's disappearance.
again...do you understand everything you are posting is merely your opinion....and my opinion...which is equally valid...is that you are wrong
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If the appeal goes in his favour, can he be tried again for this crime ?
No idea but you can bet your life his defence team will be upping their game given all the media coverage.
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If the appeal goes in his favour, can he be tried again for this crime ?
Perhaps Portugal would like him back. He would likely get a Suspended Sentence, if they convicted him at all.
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I doubt anyone here can give adefinitive answer but I would think he could....we will know soon. I would think double jeapordy only applies when found innocent
And imo you're wrong too!
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And imo you're wrong too!
Thats fair enough....it woiuld be interesting to know what he actually thinks now Breukner is on the scene
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Perhaps Portugal would like him back. He would likely get a Suspended Sentence, if they convicted him at all.
It begs the question why he's only being sentenced to 7 years in Germany if what we're being told about the rape is true ie pre-planning and "torture". The max for rape in Germany is 15 years. I wonder if the German courts use sentencing guidelines from Portugal given that's where the crime was committed?
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Thats fair enough....it woiuld be interesting to know what he actually thinks now Breukner is on the scene
Words like 'desperation' and 'fishing expedition' I would think.
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The guilty verdict for rape is a matter of record...as is the violence used. His appeal is due to a legal techicality re his extradition as to whether Germany had the right to try him....nothing to do with challenging the evidence
It's very unusual for EU countries to extradite people; they tend to use EAW's. If Germany issued an EAW then it would have to mention the crime which he was wanted for. If it wasn't mentioned they were not allowed to proceed against him;
In general, a person surrendered may not be prosecuted, sentenced or otherwise deprived of his or her liberty for an offence committed prior to the surrender other than that for which the person was surrendered. This is the rule of speciality, set out in Article 27 of the Framework Decision on EAW.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52017XC1006%2802%29
I found this;
He is appealing the conviction while he is in jail for a drug trafficking conviction arguing that his extradition was unlawful as it was for the drug conviction and not the rape conviction.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395677/Italian-police-set-trap-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html
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Words like 'desperation' and 'fishing expedition' I would think.
words like....that changes everything..I would think
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words like....that changes everything..I would think
What changes are you referring to?
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It's very unusual for EU countries to extradite people; they tend to use EAW's. If Germany issued an EAW then it would have to mention the crime which he was wanted for. If it wasn't mentioned they were not allowed to proceed against him;
In general, a person surrendered may not be prosecuted, sentenced or otherwise deprived of his or her liberty for an offence committed prior to the surrender other than that for which the person was surrendered. This is the rule of speciality, set out in Article 27 of the Framework Decision on EAW.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52017XC1006%2802%29
I found this;
He is appealing the conviction while he is in jail for a drug trafficking conviction arguing that his extradition was unlawful as it was for the drug conviction and not the rape conviction.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395677/Italian-police-set-trap-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html
i think it may well ahve been an EAW......and thats his reason for appeal...which may well be succesful. what happens then remains to be seen. What cannot be denied is he was found guilty of a violent rape
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What changes are you referring to?
The identification of Breukner as a suspect...and all the facts surrounding that suspicion
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It begs the question why he's only being sentenced to 7 years in Germany if what we're being told about the rape is true ie pre-planning and "torture". The max for rape in Germany is 15 years. I wonder if the German courts use sentencing guidelines from Portugal given that's where the crime was committed?
I don't know. But I do think that Germany dropped a clanger. Perhaps The ECHR will offer a solution.... ie this is the responsibility of Portugal where The Crime was committed.
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The identification of Breukner as a suspect...and all the facts surrounding that suspicion
What connects CB to MM's disappearance?
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What connects CB to MM's disappearance?
Why do you ask when you know full well that you will pooh-pooh any attempt to reiterate the connections?
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What connects CB to MM's disappearance?
theres actually quite alot...its all in the public domain and everyone on the forum is aware of it.I dont want to spend the whole day arguing about it though...it took almost a whole day to convince you of the simple fact hed been found guilty of rape.
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Why do you ask when you know full well that you will pooh-pooh any attempt to reiterate the connections?
If there was anything substantive he would be charged.
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theres actually quite alot...its all in the public domain and everyone on the forum is aware of it.I dont want to spend the whole day arguing about it though...it took almost a whole day to convince you of the simple fact hed been found guilty of rape.
If there was anything substantive he would be charged and the rape sentence is yet to be imposed.
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If there was anything substantive he would be charged and the rape sentence is yet to be imposed.
They cant impose the rape sentence due to a legal technicality which everyone seems to be aware of but he was found guilty
there is no urgency to charge as the police have anounced. Once more some opinion as fact
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If there was anything substantive he would be charged and the rape sentence is yet to be imposed.
He's in prison where he ought to be. They can argue until the cows come home for me. But I wouldn't like to be him if they have to let him out.
And No, I have no thoughts on him being responsible for the abduction of Madeleine McCann.
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They cant impose the rape sentence due to a legal technicality which everyone seems to be aware of but he was found guilty
The Ciprianos were found guilty but you don't believe them to be.
there is no urgency to charge as the police have anounced. Once more some opinion as fact
I thought the authorities had admitted there's currently a lack of evidence to charge?
From the MET:
“While this male is a suspect we retain an open mind as to his involvement and this remains a missing person inquiry.
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The Ciprianos were found guilty but you don't believe them to be.
I thought the authorities had admitted there's currently a lack of evidence to charge?
From the MET:
“While this male is a suspect we retain an open mind as to his involvement and this remains a missing person inquiry.
In each case I look at the evidence...cipriano...no evidence
Breukner... evidence
If you think he's not involved that's up to you..others have other opinions and they are perfectly valid
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They cant impose the rape sentence due to a legal technicality which everyone seems to be aware of but he was found guilty
there is no urgency to charge as the police have anounced. Once more some opinion as fact
The Germans have got him for another six months, but I don't think Portugal wants him. Portugal could argue that his Rape Conviction in Germany has breached his Human Rights making a Fair Trial impossible.
Just as a matter of interest, does Germany have the right to try him for The Madeleine McCann Abduction since that also would have happened in Portugal? Personally, I think not even if The Germans do find enough evidence.
Mind you, Portugal could apply for Extradition on that one, I think.
Oh Dear Oh Dear, what a laugh. If only it were funny.
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It's very unusual for EU countries to extradite people; they tend to use EAW's. If Germany issued an EAW then it would have to mention the crime which he was wanted for. If it wasn't mentioned they were not allowed to proceed against him;
In general, a person surrendered may not be prosecuted, sentenced or otherwise deprived of his or her liberty for an offence committed prior to the surrender other than that for which the person was surrendered. This is the rule of speciality, set out in Article 27 of the Framework Decision on EAW.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52017XC1006%2802%29
I found this;
He is appealing the conviction while he is in jail for a drug trafficking conviction arguing that his extradition was unlawful as it was for the drug conviction and not the rape conviction.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395677/Italian-police-set-trap-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html
There are exceptions to the rule of speciality and if you think about there has to be.
Imagine a suspect with an EAW in jail then six months later evidence of a serious crime comes to light. There had to be a provision to charge and try for a further offence
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The Ciprianos were found guilty but you don't believe them to be.
I thought the authorities had admitted there's currently a lack of evidence to charge?
From the MET:
“While this male is a suspect we retain an open mind as to his involvement and this remains a missing person inquiry.
This is a Brueckner Thread and nothing to do with Leonor Cipriano.
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The Germans have got him for another six months, but I don't think Portugal wants him. Portugal could argue that his Rape Conviction in Germany has breached his Human Rights making a Fair Trial impossible.
Just as a matter of interest, does Germany have the right to try him for The Madeleine McCann Abduction since that also would have happened in Portugal? Personally, I think not even if The Germans do find enough evidence.
Mind you, Portugal could apply for Extradition on that one, I think.
Oh Dear Oh Dear, what a laugh. If only it were funny.
Germany has the right to try him for the Maddie case ...I'm sure but can't be bothered to find where I read it so can't provide a cite
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Germany has the right to try him for the Maddie case ...I'm sure but can't be bothered to find where I read it so can't provide a cite
It isn't important at the moment. I am not asking for a Cite. Although they do come in handy now and again, as already witnessed on this Thread re that totally incorrect translation of The German Language which never said that The McCanns had done nothing to find Madeleine.
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It's very unusual for EU countries to extradite people; they tend to use EAW's. If Germany issued an EAW then it would have to mention the crime which he was wanted for. If it wasn't mentioned they were not allowed to proceed against him;
In general, a person surrendered may not be prosecuted, sentenced or otherwise deprived of his or her liberty for an offence committed prior to the surrender other than that for which the person was surrendered. This is the rule of speciality, set out in Article 27 of the Framework Decision on EAW.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52017XC1006%2802%29
I found this;
He is appealing the conviction while he is in jail for a drug trafficking conviction arguing that his extradition was unlawful as it was for the drug conviction and not the rape conviction.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395677/Italian-police-set-trap-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html
As I understand it the conviction is based on CB's associate saying he appeared in a vid which seemed to depict him raping a woman but the vid was destroyed before law enforcement had a chance to view?
The forensic evidence is based on a single body hair found in the victim's bed said to originate from CB determined by DNA tests. CB's explanation for this is that the hair might have been innocently transferred from petting the victim's cat. An expert thought this was an unlikely explanation.
Questions:
1. I thought the victim was a tourist from US so how come she had a cat?
2. Given the case involved a brutal rape it might be expected there would be further biological samples: semen, scrapings from the victim's nails if she scratched him in an attempt to defend herself, other body and head hair from CB?
3. I read the victim did not want to be involved in the trial but could she not have identified him from photos and/or voice recordings?
4. I assume he wore gloves given it seems numerous objects were handled and I haven't seen/heard anything about fingerprints?
5. If the rape involved pre-planning eg the wearing of a mask and "torture" why such a lenient sentence of 7 years?
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As I understand it the conviction is based on CB's associate saying he appeared in a vid which seemed to depict him raping a woman but the vid was destroyed before law enforcement had a chance to view?
The forensic evidence is based on a single body hair found in the victim's bed said to originate from CB determined by DNA tests. CB's explanation for this is that the hair might have been innocently transferred from petting the victim's cat. An expert thought this was an unlikely explanation.
Questions:
1. I thought the victim was a tourist from US so how come she had a cat?
2. Given the case involved a brutal rape it might be expected there would be further biological samples: semen, scrapings from the victim's nails if she scratched him in an attempt to defend herself, other body and head hair from CB?
3. I read the victim did not want to be involved in the trial but could she not have identified him from photos and/or voice recordings?
4. I assume he wore gloves given it seems numerous objects were handled and I haven't seen/heard anything about fingerprints?
5. If the rape involved pre-planning eg the wearing of a mask and "torture" why such a lenient sentence of 7 years?
You are not saying that The Rape didn't happen, are you.
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You are not saying that The Rape didn't happen, are you.
No.
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You are not saying that The Rape didn't happen, are you.
What if anything do you think about the points raised above?
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What if anything do you think about the points raised above?
Nothing at all. I just think he is a very unpleasant man.
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You come across desperate that CHristian Bruerbeck won’t be charged: why is that?
Don’t you think given his previous, plus the evidence they have so far makes him a prime suspect? Or do you think he should get away with it, even though you’ve no idea at all where he was that night? His phone placed him outside: he has no alibi...yet you roar that he’s not guilty until proven so. How do you think police find suspects before charging them? They’re not guilty until they’ve been to court.
Every single person I’ve spoken to have all said he’s a despicable, vile paedophile (and that’s been proven — he even pleaded guilty) so why are you trying to protect him? You’re very strange protecting a convicted paedophile...why is that???
Well I see Holly’s rule about posting that members are supporting paedophiles didn’t last long.
And why are you so desperate to see him charged ? There appears to be something of the [ censored word ] in your post. Surely a miscarriage of justice serves no one at this point ?
You appear to have missed my point re-Hewlett. He had a charge sheet every bit as horrific as Brueckner, was near PDL at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance, so we were told, and was a prime candidate for the crime.....expect it wasn’t him.
I would love to see Brueckner brought to book for the crimes he has carried out, who wants a dangerous paedophile on the streets. What I don’t want is the case to be taken to court and for there to be insufficient evidence to convict. That would be the worst of all possible scenarios.
If there is enough evidence the police would have charged him by now. There obviously isn’t....and yes he is owed the presumption of innocent....on this case. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think that he is a dangerous predator and the world would be all the safer with him behind bars....but for crimes he’s committed.
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He's in prison where he ought to be. They can argue until the cows come home for me. But I wouldn't like to be him if they have to let him out.
And No, I have no thoughts on him being responsible for the abduction of Madeleine McCann.
If they take him to court with insufficient evidence that is exactly what is going to happen.
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If they take him to court with insufficient evidence that is exactly what is going to happen.
They aren't going to. I would have thought that this much was obvious.
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They aren't going to. I would have thought that this much was obvious.
And if not, much like the parents, he will be owed a substantial libel payout from the tabloids.
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And if not, much like the parents, he will be owed a substantial libel payout from the tabloids.
I would like to see him try.
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I would like to see him try.
Why wouldn’t he ? If the stories they have printed about him are false he is entitled to be recompensed. Libel laws don’t just apply to good people. Ironically after the debacle Madeleine will be no nearer to being found and Brueckner will be a wealthy man.
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Why wouldn’t he ? If the stories they have printed about him are false he is entitled to be recompensed. Libel laws don’t just apply to good people. Ironically after the debacle Madeleine will be no nearer to being found and Brueckner will be a wealthy man.
Convicted Paedophile, Rapist and Drug Dealer sues for Loss of Reputation.
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Why wouldn’t he ? If the stories they have printed about him are false he is entitled to be recompensed. Libel laws don’t just apply to good people. Ironically after the debacle Madeleine will be no nearer to being found and Brueckner will be a wealthy man.
Which stories are false?
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He’ll need to be a rich man already to start a lawsuit against British tabs. Perhaps it’s time for his defence team on here to start that Crowdfunder.
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He’ll need to be a rich man already to start a lawsuit against British tabs. Perhaps it’s time for his defence team on here to start that Crowdfunder.
I was thinking that. He should get plenty of support for his legal costs.
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From today’s Times wrt to Johnny Depp’s libel case against the Sun:
“A defamation action is a civil law claim and can be brought if someone publishes to other people a statement about you which has either caused your reputation serious harm or is likely to cause it serious harm.
There are four possible defences to defamation. Firstly, that the statement about you is true. Secondly, that it was not a statement of fact but an honest opinion. Thirdly, that publication was justified because it was on a matter of public interest, and finally that it was protected by "privilege".
However, defamation actions work differently from many civil actions such as breach of contract, where the burden of proving the "wrong" lies with the person bringing the claim. In defamation, that person has to show that the statement about them has a defamatory meaning - ie that it lowers them in the minds of right-thinking members of society.
"Meaning" is now decided by a judge at an early, pre-trial stage. Many cases settle after the judge has ruled on meaning, but if a claim does go to trial, the burden then lies with the publisher to prove, for example, that the statement was substantially true. This is when the gloves come off and personal reputations and behaviour come under intense scrutiny”
Do we think that the news coverage of the child abuser and rapist has damaged his reputation?
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Convicted Paedophile, Rapist and Drug Dealer sues for Loss of Reputation.
Ridiculous I know but that’s the law.
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I was thinking that. He should get plenty of support for his legal costs.
Where do I donate?
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Where do I donate?
We are all waiting for you to start it.
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If there was anything substantive he would be charged and the rape sentence is yet to be imposed.
Mr Wolters is appealing to the public for more information on Brückner. Like so many here have argued; the reason him not been charged is that the moment they do so, his lawyer is entitled to see the evidence against him and German authorities want to prevent that since they know he will be denied parole and that will give them another, at least, six months to gather information.
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Mr Wolters is appealing to the public for more information on Brückner. Like so many here have argued; the reason him not been charged is that the moment they do so, his lawyer is entitled to see the evidence against him and German authorities want to prevent that since they know he will be denied parole and that will give them another, at least, six months to gather information.
With the greatest respect that is absolute nonsense. The evidence they have is the evidence they have. If it is strong enough there will be nothing his defence can do. In this country we have disclosure. https://www.cps.gov.uk/disclosure.
I’ve never heard of a suspect not being charged in case the defence find out what evidence the prosecution have.
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With the greatest respect that is absolute nonsense. The evidence they have is the evidence they have. If it is strong enough there will be nothing his defence can do. In this country we have disclosure. https://www.cps.gov.uk/disclosure.
I’ve never heard of a suspect not being charged in case the defence find out what evidence the prosecution have.
Anthro is absolutely correct...HCW said exactly this three or four weeks ago. I've posted this several times since.
Of course the amateur lawyers and amateur detectives here think they know more than HCW
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Incredible isn’t it? The same people who waited with baited breath for Amaral to flourish his ace now refusing to accept that the Germans haven’t already laid all their cards on the table!
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With the greatest respect that is absolute nonsense. The evidence they have is the evidence they have. If it is strong enough there will be nothing his defence can do. In this country we have disclosure. https://www.cps.gov.uk/disclosure.
I’ve never heard of a suspect not being charged in case the defence find out what evidence the prosecution have.
Your highlighted words are meaningless, since you regard me as someone who ‘wants’ Brückner to be involved with Madeleine’s disappearance. It is way more complex than what you are trying to portray. To me, they are appealing for information because they have some pivotal information related to Madeleine. They are buying themselves some time, trusting that more evidence will be forthcoming.
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Your highlighted words are meaningless, since you regard me as someone who ‘wants’ Brückner to be involved with Madeleine’s disappearance. It is way more complex than what you are trying to portray. To me, they are appealing for information because they have some pivotal information related to Madeleine. They are buying themselves some time, trusting that more evidence will be forthcoming.
It’s not complex at all. If they had concrete evidence of his guilt they would have charged him. It’s actually very simple and I’ll predict he’ll never be charged.
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Where do I donate?
You can write him a cheque and send it to him in prison right now, what’s stopping you?
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You can write him a cheque and send it to him in prison right now, what’s stopping you?
I need the full address of the prison he's being held in.
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I need the full address of the prison he's being held in.
Christian Brückner
Faeschstraße 8,
24114 Kiel,
Germany
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Christian Brückner
Faeschstraße 8,
24114 Kiel,
Germany
Thanks very much, I'll get on it right away.
I'll sooner donate to him than the McCanns shed roof fund any day.
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Your highlighted words are meaningless, since you regard me as someone who ‘wants’ Brückner to be involved with Madeleine’s disappearance. It is way more complex than what you are trying to portray. To me, they are appealing for information because they have some pivotal information related to Madeleine. They are buying themselves some time, trusting that more evidence will be forthcoming.
As I remember there is a piece of information they do not want to disclose to Breukner until the last minute...and as has been confirmed there is no urgency
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It’s not complex at all. If they had concrete evidence of his guilt they would have charged him. It’s actually very simple and I’ll predict he’ll never be charged.
The situation is probably more complex than it seems.
For argument’s sake, suppose the German police unearthed a memory stick containing images of a man who appeared to CB shooting a child who looked uncannily like Madeleine. The images, uploaded onto said memory stick, originated from a phone police are almost sure was used by the suspect at the time but proof is needed.
AFAIK a person cannot be prosecuted using images alone where identification & crime cannot be 100% proven. The police have a suspect in a probable crime but no known crime scene, body or murder weapon to assist the investigation. Furthermore, they have no forensic evidence linking the suspect to the apartment from which the child was taken. The child may even have been delivered to the suspect by another party, a gun held to his head & an order issued to shoot the child whilst being filmed by A N Other. We just don't know until the Germans complete their investigation then question the suspect.
All my opinion.
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The situation is probably more complex than it seems.
For argument’s sake, suppose the German police unearthed a memory stick containing images of a man who appeared to CB shooting a child who looked uncannily like Madeleine. The images, uploaded onto said memory stick, originated from a phone police are almost sure was used by the suspect at the time but proof is needed.
AFAIK a person cannot be prosecuted using images alone where identification & crime cannot be 100% proven. The police have a suspect in a probable crime but no known crime scene, body or murder weapon to assist the investigation. Furthermore, they have no forensic evidence linking the suspect to the apartment from which the child was taken. The child may even have been delivered to the suspect by another party, a gun held to his head & an order issued to shoot the child whilst being filmed by A N Other. We just don't know until the Germans complete their investigation then question the suspect.
All my opinion.
That's just what I have been thinking to
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You come across desperate that CHristian Bruerbeck won’t be charged: why is that?
Don’t you think given his previous, plus the evidence they have so far makes him a prime suspect? Or do you think he should get away with it, even though you’ve no idea at all where he was that night? His phone placed him outside: he has no alibi...yet you roar that he’s not guilty until proven so. How do you think police find suspects before charging them? They’re not guilty until they’ve been to court.
Every single person I’ve spoken to have all said he’s a despicable, vile paedophile (and that’s been proven — he even pleaded guilty) so why do you take this stance?
He is without doubt a sick depraved individual but he also might have never set eyes on Madeleine McCann. Certainly the absence of any DNA or the smallest piece of evidence would appear to support this possibility. Had this guy been involved I would have expected something to have been found by now.
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He is without doubt a sick depraved individual but he also might have never set eyes on Madeleine McCann. Certainly the absence of any DNA or the smallest piece of evidence would appear to support this possibility. Had this guy been involved I would have expected something to have been found by now.
They have something...we just dont know what it is.
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They have something...we just dont know what it is.
I have no doubt that if the German prosecutors had some tangible evidence against him in respect of Madeleine's disappearance that we would have heard about it long ago. Their desperation to solve this case is clouding their judgement imo.
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He’ll need to be a rich man already to start a lawsuit against British tabs. Perhaps it’s time for his defence team on here to start that Crowdfunder.
If it's a slam dunk the lawyers will probably agree a no win no fee agreement. I believe the Mc libel lawyers worked on this basis?
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If it's a slam dunk the lawyers will probably agree a no win no fee agreement. I believe the Mc libel lawyers worked on this basis?
I dont see he has any case whasoever. Who will he sue and on what grounds...please quote relevant german libel law
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If it's a slam dunk the lawyers will probably agree a no win no fee agreement. I believe the Mc libel lawyers worked on this basis?
The Lawyers won't get much, if anything at all.
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From today’s Times wrt to Johnny Depp’s libel case against the Sun:
“A defamation action is a civil law claim and can be brought if someone publishes to other people a statement about you which has either caused your reputation serious harm or is likely to cause it serious harm.
There are four possible defences to defamation. Firstly, that the statement about you is true. Secondly, that it was not a statement of fact but an honest opinion. Thirdly, that publication was justified because it was on a matter of public interest, and finally that it was protected by "privilege".
However, defamation actions work differently from many civil actions such as breach of contract, where the burden of proving the "wrong" lies with the person bringing the claim. In defamation, that person has to show that the statement about them has a defamatory meaning - ie that it lowers them in the minds of right-thinking members of society.
"Meaning" is now decided by a judge at an early, pre-trial stage. Many cases settle after the judge has ruled on meaning, but if a claim does go to trial, the burden then lies with the publisher to prove, for example, that the statement was substantially true. This is when the gloves come off and personal reputations and behaviour come under intense scrutiny”
Do we think that the news coverage of the child abuser and rapist has damaged his reputation?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/09/18/charles-bronson-sues-richard-madeley-libel-presenters-claims/amp/
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Mr Wolters is appealing to the public for more information on Brückner. Like so many here have argued; the reason him not been charged is that the moment they do so, his lawyer is entitled to see the evidence against him and German authorities want to prevent that since they know he will be denied parole and that will give them another, at least, six months to gather information.
The prosecutor's office/HCW hasn't mentioned CB by name so how can the be appealing for more info about him?
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/09/18/charles-bronson-sues-richard-madeley-libel-presenters-claims/amp/
what has been said about Breukner that is untrue
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Anthro is absolutely correct...HCW said exactly this three or four weeks ago. I've posted this several times since.
Of course the amateur lawyers and amateur detectives here think they know more than HCW
On what basis is Anthro correct when the prosecutor's office/HCW hasn't mentioned CB by name?
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On what basis is Anthro correct when the prosecutor's office/HCW hasn't mentioned CB by name?
HCW has identified breukner....but not by his name
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They have something...we just dont know what it is.
I'm inclined to think it might well be an empty fishing net!
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I'm inclined to think it might well be an empty fishing net!
Have The PJ searched those Wells yet? Or aren't they bothering
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I'm inclined to think it might well be an empty fishing net!
Im afraid you are inclined to thing several incorrect things
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Seems like the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office takes on the big boys too ?>)()<
Https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-ag-considers-the-indictment-by-the-braunschweig-public-prosecutors-office-to-be-unfounded-5395
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Im afraid you are inclined to thing several incorrect things
I'm not the only one then!
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Seems like the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office takes on the big boys too ?>)()<
Https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-ag-considers-the-indictment-by-the-braunschweig-public-prosecutors-office-to-be-unfounded-5395
The following doc describes the public prosecutor's office as "cavalary of the law" :
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Have The PJ searched those Wells yet? Or aren't they bothering
I would imagine search expert Mark Harrison covered them off.
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Seems like the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office takes on the big boys too ?>)()<
Https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-ag-considers-the-indictment-by-the-braunschweig-public-prosecutors-office-to-be-unfounded-5395
https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-ag-considers-the-indictment-by-the-braunschweig-public-prosecutors-office-to-be-unfounded-5395
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I would imagine search expert Mark Harrison covered them off.
What does that mean? There are several Wells near where Brueckner lived.
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What does that mean? There are several Wells near where Brueckner lived.
You reckon they'd find anything ?
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You reckon they'd find anything ?
That in itself doesn't matter. The Wells have to be searched.
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What does that mean? There are several Wells near where Brueckner lived.
I thought he had no fixed abode in May 2007?
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I thought he had no fixed abode in May 2007?
He lived in two properties during his time in Portugal. They both had several Wells around them which he will have know of. This is just plain common sense.
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What does that mean? There are several Wells near where Brueckner lived.
After all this time and the resources available in terms of £'s and person power I would have thought all wells have been excluded.
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After all this time and the resources available in terms of £'s and person power I would have thought all wells have been excluded.
The two properties he lived in were outside of Praia da Luz and since he wasn't of any interest to The Investigation I doubt they would have been considered.
It's a different story now.
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After all this time and the resources available in terms of £'s and person power I would have thought all wells have been excluded.
Can't see it myself. The Portuguese aren't interested and the British prefer to dig holes.
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Can't see it myself. The Portuguese aren't interested and the British prefer to dig holes.
You're right about Portugal not being interested. Someone will have to shame them into searching those Wells.
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The two properties he lived in were outside of Praia da Luz and since he wasn't of any interest to The Investigation I doubt they would have been considered.
It's a different story now.
The searches covered a vast area.
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The searches covered a vast area.
Not that vast for heaven's sake. And Scotland Yard concentrated mainly on the village itself. But then they didn't know that there was a paedophile come burglar running around in a camper van.
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You're right about Portugal not being interested. Someone will have to shame them into searching those Wells.
I would be amazed if MET and/or PJ haven't searched. And I wouldn't mind betting that all manner of 'enthusiasts' have visited the area to search.
It's pretty straight forward just drop a camera down:
https://youtu.be/qChpu0zCyTo
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Not that vast for heaven's sake. And Scotland Yard concentrated mainly on the village itself. But then they didn't know that there was a paedophile come burglar running around in a camper van.
MH makes ref to the wells:
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
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I would be amazed if MET and/or PJ haven't searched. And I wouldn't mind betting that all manner of 'enthusiasts' have visited the area to search.
It's pretty straight forward just drop a camera down:
https://youtu.be/qChpu0zCyTo
Have you any idea of how wild it is up in the hills and how many Wells there are.
And dropping a camera down won't cut it. Any body would have gone to bone and be under water.
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Have you any idea of how wild it is up in the hills and how many Wells there are.
And dropping a camera down won't cut it. Any body would have gone to bone and be under water.
They checked in the aftermath.
Maybe we could arrange a forum summer camp and abseil down to double check?
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They checked in the aftermath.
Maybe we could arrange a forum summer camp and abseil down to double check?
I'll pass on that one, if you don't mind.
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On what basis is Anthro correct when the prosecutor's office/HCW hasn't mentioned CB by name?
It is a procedural act. Have you not followed the thread with input from many other members? The German prosecutor will not name Brückner on any platform.
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quote author=Holly Goodhead link=topic=11656.msg607574#msg607574 date=1594148105]
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/09/18/charles-bronson-sues-richard-madeley-libel-presenters-claims/amp/
[/quote]How much did he win?
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It is a procedural act. Have you not followed the thread with input from many other members? The German prosecutor will not name Brückner on any platform.
The fishing expedition appeal has been for info on the two vehicles and tel numbers not CB as you stated:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607541#msg607541
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I thought he had no fixed abode in May 2007?
And that makes it even more complicated. His peripatetic lifestyle, offered him the opportunity to frequent any location.
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The searches covered a vast area.
The searches by the GNR extended to 15km north of PdL, to Barragem de Odiaxere.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
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I dont see he has any case whasoever. Who will he sue and on what grounds...please quote relevant german libel law
If I was him I’d start with the British tabloids and sue them in this country.
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The searches by the GNR extended to 15km north of PdL, to Barragem de Odiaxere.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
How many wells did they go down? My understanding is that to carry out such a search is an extremely difficult and highly dangerous specialist job to carry out so we would know about any they have searched
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The fishing expedition appeal has been for info on the two vehicles and tel numbers not CB as you stated:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607541#msg607541
Why the derision of normal police tactics for gathering evidence? Is your contempt in general or only in the particular case of Madeleine McCann?
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How many wells did they go down? My understanding is that to carry out such a search is an extremely difficult and highly dangerous specialist job to carry out so we would know about any they have searched
If anyone attempted to access unused wells there would be signs of earth disturbance by way of footprints and tyre tracks.
It's easy to explore wells with cameras:
https://youtu.be/qChpu0zCyTo
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Why the derision of normal police tactics for gathering evidence? Is your contempt in general or only in the particular case of Madeleine McCann?
Nothing to do with the MM case per se. Please identify another case where 13 years after the crime was committed the police are appealling for info on two vehicles and telephone numbers the suspect had access to where the whereabouts of the vehicles are known?
Although the prosecutor's office - described elsewhere as "cavalary of the law" - has upheld the law by not naming the 'suspect' its clear the amount of information released would enable the media to pick up the baton.
The MET's appeal is far more circumspect. I can see huge repercussions for the prosecutor's office. No wonder Portugal has chosen not to get involved with this madcap idea which in all probability breaks international law.
By all accounts CB is an unpleasant individual and a menace to children but he needs to be dealt with according to the law not the lynch mob.
I thought the Mc's argument with Amaral/The Lie is that it harms the search for MM if others are led to believe she's dead? So how does it help when the prosecutor's office is making the same assertion without the evidence?
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Nothing to do with the MM case per se. Please identify another case where 13 years after the crime was committed the police are appealling for info on two vehicles and telephone numbers the suspect had access to where the whereabouts of the vehicles are known?
Although the prosecutor's office - described elsewhere as "cavalary of the law" - has upheld the law by not naming the 'suspect' its clear the amount of information released would enable the media to pick up the baton.
The MET's appeal is far more circumspect. I can see huge repercussions for the prosecutor's office. No wonder Portugal has chosen not to get involved with this madcap idea which in all probability breaks international law.
By all accounts CB is an unpleasant individual and a menace to children but he needs to be dealt with according to the law not the lynch mob.
I thought the Mc's argument with Amaral/The Lie is that it harms the search for MM if others are led to believe she's dead? So how does it help when the prosecutor's office is making the same assertion without the evidence?
They say they have concrete evidence she’s dead, they just haven’t realeased it yet.
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Nothing to do with the MM case per se. Please identify another case where 13 years after the crime was committed the police are appealling for info on two vehicles and telephone numbers the suspect had access to where the whereabouts of the vehicles are known?
Although the prosecutor's office - described elsewhere as "cavalary of the law" - has upheld the law by not naming the 'suspect' its clear the amount of information released would enable the media to pick up the baton.
The MET's appeal is far more circumspect. I can see huge repercussions for the prosecutor's office. No wonder Portugal has chosen not to get involved with this madcap idea which in all probability breaks international law.
By all accounts CB is an unpleasant individual and a menace to children but he needs to be dealt with according to the law not the lynch mob.
I thought the Mc's argument with Amaral/The Lie is that it harms the search for MM if others are led to believe she's dead? So how does it help when the prosecutor's office is making the same assertion without the evidence?
The only reason the Portuguese want no part is because they're embarrassed they cocked up with their original investigation.
And Brueckner is more than just a danger to children. What about women of any age and sheep... poor old Wolfly who didn't want to be sh... eared?
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The only reason the Portuguese want no part is because they're embarrassed they cocked up with their original investigation.
And Brueckner is more than just a danger to children. What about women of any age and sheep... poor old Wolfly who didn't want to be sh... eared?
@)(++(*
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@)(++(*
It's true!... 14:40 in:
https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/pais/sexta-as-9-suspeito-da-morte-de-madeleine-mccann-conhecido-como-pedofilo-em-1994_v1242290 (https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/pais/sexta-as-9-suspeito-da-morte-de-madeleine-mccann-conhecido-como-pedofilo-em-1994_v1242290)
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The only reason the Portuguese want no part is because they're embarrassed they cocked up with their original investigation.
And Brueckner is more than just a danger to children. What about women of any age and sheep... poor old Wolfly who didn't want to be sh... eared?
Yes I too noticed the downplaying (once again) of the severity of his crimes by Ms Goodhead.
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They say they have concrete evidence she’s dead, they just haven’t realeased it yet.
What if its the dog's evidence in the files apparently the markers not legal in Portugal are in Germany.
That I believe is the only explanation for them saying its concrete evidence. Maddie is dead.
They are being so erratic with what they have and haven't got, what could it possibly be
For some reason, they wanted maximum publicity and who better to use than Maddie.
It could be possible they have skimmed through the files for background on the case. and seeing the report believe Maddie is dead. IMO
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They say they have concrete evidence she’s dead, they just haven’t realeased it yet.
In which case it begs the question why the MET is singing from a different hymn sheet:
While this male is a suspect we retain an open mind as to his involvement and this remains a missing person inquiry.
I don't believe the prosecutor's office (PO) has any evidence whatsoever that MM is dead or that CB was involved in her disappearance.
If the po has been carrying on like the "cavalry of the law" this high profile case could be its undoing!
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What if its the dog's evidence in the files apparently the markers not legal in Portugal are in Germany.
That I believe is the only explanation for them saying its concrete evidence. Maddie is dead.
They are being so erratic with what they have and haven't got, what could it possibly be
For some reason, they wanted maximum publicity and who better to use than Maddie.
It could be possible they have skimmed through the files for background on the case. and seeing the report believe Maddie is dead. IMO
You believe what you want to believe. I know it’s hard for you to let go of the dog evidence. The dog alarts are not concrete evidence of Madeleine’s death. Never have been, never will be. They are IMO completely and utterly irrelevant. Concrete evidence would be a photo or a video or a body part, IMO.
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In which case it begs the question why the MET is singing from a different hymn sheet:
While this male is a suspect we retain an open mind as to his involvement and this remains a missing person inquiry.
I don't believe the prosecutor's office (PO) has any evidence whatsoever that MM is dead or that CB was involved in her disappearance.
If the po has been carrying on like the "cavalry of the law" this high profile case could be its undoing!
Like Kizzy, you carry on believing whatever brings you comfort, I couldn’t care less what you believe tbh.
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It's true!... 14:40 in:
https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/pais/sexta-as-9-suspeito-da-morte-de-madeleine-mccann-conhecido-como-pedofilo-em-1994_v1242290 (https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/pais/sexta-as-9-suspeito-da-morte-de-madeleine-mccann-conhecido-como-pedofilo-em-1994_v1242290)
I know! When I first heard it I thought great now we have a bit of bestiality thrown in for good measure!
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Like Kizzy, you carry on believing whatever brings you comfort, I couldn’t care less what you believe tbh.
Likewise. My belief certainly gives me more comfort than believing MM met her end at the hands of a depraved individual 8(8-))
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What if its the dog's evidence in the files apparently the markers not legal in Portugal are in Germany.
That I believe is the only explanation for them saying its concrete evidence. Maddie is dead.
They are being so erratic with what they have and haven't got, what could it possibly be
For some reason, they wanted maximum publicity and who better to use than Maddie.
It could be possible they have skimmed through the files for background on the case. and seeing the report believe Maddie is dead. IMO
A totally ridiculous post...imo ...I can guarantee the Germans are not so stupid to beleieve the dogs are evidence of maddies death
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If anyone attempted to access unused wells there would be signs of earth disturbance by way of footprints and tyre tracks.
It's easy to explore wells with cameras:
https://youtu.be/qChpu0zCyTo
your post is present tense....I dont see there would be any signs of earth disturbance after 13 years
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Nothing to do with the MM case per se. Please identify another case where 13 years after the crime was committed the police are appealling for info on two vehicles and telephone numbers the suspect had access to where the whereabouts of the vehicles are known?
Although the prosecutor's office - described elsewhere as "cavalary of the law" - has upheld the law by not naming the 'suspect' its clear the amount of information released would enable the media to pick up the baton.
The MET's appeal is far more circumspect. I can see huge repercussions for the prosecutor's office. No wonder Portugal has chosen not to get involved with this madcap idea which in all probability breaks international law.
By all accounts CB is an unpleasant individual and a menace to children but he needs to be dealt with according to the law not the lynch mob.
I thought the Mc's argument with Amaral/The Lie is that it harms the search for MM if others are led to believe she's dead? So how does it help when the prosecutor's office is making the same assertion without the evidence?
I would say the prosecutors office have strong evidence maddie is dead...thats what theyve said. The mcCanns have been left to the lynch mob for the past 13 years led by the PJ
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Likewise. My belief certainly gives me more comfort than believing MM met her end at the hands of a depraved individual 8(8-))
Carry on believing it then, not that it changes reality in any way.
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In which case it begs the question why the MET is singing from a different hymn sheet:
While this male is a suspect we retain an open mind as to his involvement and this remains a missing person inquiry.
I don't believe the prosecutor's office (PO) has any evidence whatsoever that MM is dead or that CB was involved in her disappearance.
If the po has been carrying on like the "cavalry of the law" this high profile case could be its undoing!
SY in my opinion are being diplomatic...and the evidence the Germans have has not been shared, probably because the Grmans do not trust the professionalism of the PJ...they have said as much
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SY in my opinion are being diplomatic...and the evidence the Germans have has not been shared, probably because the Grmans do not trust the professionalism of the PJ...they have said as much
Yes, as soon as the PJ find out what this evidence is, it will be flashed across the world’s media via the Rent-A-Gob Amaral.
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Likewise. My belief certainly gives me more comfort than believing MM met her end at the hands of a depraved individual 8(8-))
as ive posted before it would be wonderful if maddie was alive and well...but I am going with the evidence which means she is almost certainly dead
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Yes, as soon as the PJ find out what this evidence is, it will be flashed across the world’s media via the Rent-A-Gob Amaral.
precisely
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as ive posted before it would be wonderful if maddie was alive and well...but I am going with the evidence which means she is almost certainly dead
What evidence?
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What evidence?
first piece of evidence is its been so long since the disappearnce...the overwhelming likelihood is maddie is dead...do you not agree
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What evidence?
The evidence that the German police say they have concrete evidence. Let’s play your favourite game. Name another police force that have claimed to have concrete evidence of a crime when in reality they had absolutely nothing at all. Apart from the PJ of course ;-)
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The evidence that the German police say they have concrete evidence. Let’s play your favourite game. Name another police force that have claimed to have concrete evidence of a crime when in reality they had absolutely nothing at all. Apart from the PJ of course ;-)
I beleive Sadie claims she has evidence in the form of a video which show's Madeleine alive in 2012,also she claims she passed it on to OG, ,OG still class it has a missing persons case,how does that fit in with the claims of the Germans.
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A totally ridiculous post...imo ...I can guarantee the Germans are not so stupid to beleieve the dogs are evidence of maddies death
How can you guarantee it ... I think not D.
It can't be they are so professional the way they are going about things when it's so slapped dash imo.
What if they are reading it the same way as GA as You are forever saying he misread the evidence.
But it seems in Germany that what isn't accepted in Portugal ...it is in Germany. 15 out of 19 markers.
Isn't it 20 markers or 10 pairs are required in the UK before a match can be confirmed although as few as 15 are accepted in many other countries
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I would say the prosecutors office have strong evidence maddie is dead...thats what theyve said. The mcCanns have been left to the lynch mob for the past 13 years led by the PJ
I agree, Davel. The prosecutor’s reply that they have no body or any parts of the body gave me the impression that he chose his words very carefully. To me, this statement may well be a ‘clue’ as to what they have as evidence.
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How can you guarantee it ... I think not D.
It can't be they are so professional the way they are going about things when it's so slapped dash imo.
What if they are reading it the same way as GA as You are forever saying he misread the evidence.
But it seems in Germany that what isn't accepted in Portugal ...it is in Germany. 15 out of 19 markers.
Isn't it 20 markers or 10 pairs are required in the UK before a match can be confirmed although as few as 15 are accepted in many other countries
you are making the same simple mistake as amaral.
if it was 15 markers from a regular DNA sample ...not LCN DNA then that would be different. Then we have the fact that its from 3 to 5 poeple and maddies family used the car. You are showing...like amaral....a complete misunderstanding re the DNA and the dog alerts.
I dont see the Germans as being slap dash.....another ridiculous comment imo
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The evidence that the German police say they have concrete evidence. Let’s play your favourite game. Name another police force that have claimed to have concrete evidence of a crime when in reality they had absolutely nothing at all. Apart from the PJ of course ;-)
It isn't coming from the German police/BKA. Its from the public prosecutor's office.
Eberhard Siegesmund, deputy director general of the judicial system division, federal ministry of justice has described the public prosecutor's office as follows:
Even though it deserves to be called – actually by dint of statute, and this is something I will be coming back to later
– the “most objective authority in the world”, the public prosecution office is, however, not infrequently said, as the
“cavalry of the law”, to demonstrate a certain “dashing spirit” and is thus thought to be blind in its enthusiasm for
prosecution. Public prosecutors, although said to investigate swiftly and in a straightforward manner, are said to do so,
however, one-sidedly to the accused’s disadvantage, without any sure instinct and without the requisite critical distance.
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I agree, Davel. The prosecutor’s reply that they have no body or any parts of the body gave me the impression that he chose his words very carefully. To me, this statement may well be a ‘clue’ as to what they have as evidence.
A family member would have to confirm it was Madeleine if it exist's, there is no evidence to suggest this has been done.
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I beleive Sadie claims she has evidence in the form of a video which show's Madeleine alive in 2012,also she claims she passed it on to OG, ,OG still class it has a missing persons case,how does that fit in with the claims of the Germans.
the Germans havent shared the evidence as Ive explained
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A family member would have to confirm it was Madeleine if it exist's, there is no evidence to suggest this has been done.
That would explain why the Germans refer to it as concrete evidence rather than proof
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the Germans havent shared the evidence as Ive explained
Which is a strange turn of events if true with simultaneous statements back in early June.
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That would explain why the Germans refer to it as concrete evidence rather than proof
Where is the original German statement.
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I would say the prosecutors office have strong evidence maddie is dead...thats what theyve said. The mcCanns have been left to the lynch mob for the past 13 years led by the PJ
If that was the case, it is protocol to have shared such with the parents. Since that hasn't happened...
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
Operation Grange appear to be doing their own thing regardless.
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If that was the case, it is protocol to have shared such with the parents. Since that hasn't happened...
The Germans will have their reasons...protocol is not hard and fast rules. Breukner may or may not be involved....i think based on everything its highly possible he is. This upsets sceptics who resort to trying to undermine the professionalism of the German police. I know Germany....the police are far from unproffesional
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Operation Grange appear to be doing their own thing regardless.
I dont think they are...i recall is was co operation re the phone traffic that highlighted Breukner. SY may be a little peeved taht the Germans are not sharing the evidence....and thats why they insist on calling it amissing person case. Until SY have that evidence they have no choice but to refer to it as a missing person case
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The Germans will have their reasons...protocol is not hard and fast rules. Breukner may or may not be involved....i think based on everything its highly possible he is. This upsets sceptics who resort to trying to undermine the professionalism of the German police. I know Germany....the police are far from unproffesional
I'm not a 'sceptic' and even Germany's deputy director general of the judicial system division, federal ministry of justice has criticed the prosecutor's office.
Why do you believe the prosecutor's office in Germany has intelligence about MM unknown to MET/PJ?
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A family member would have to confirm it was Madeleine if it exist's, there is no evidence to suggest this has been done.
Not if it was just a few bones. DNA test would be required.
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its quite noticable how some posters have become awre of trial by media.....and the necessity to sue the media...when they have been blind to both of these for the past 13 years.
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If that was the case, it is protocol to have shared such with the parents. Since that hasn't happened...
I'll wait for more facts to emerge.
Either the German prosecutor is on a fishing expedition (which I find unlikely for the moment as this case involves a British subject who disappeared in Portugal) or he has valid reasons to limit what could be leaked via all those fluttering fans in tabloid media newsrooms...
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I beleive Sadie claims she has evidence in the form of a video which show's Madeleine alive in 2012,also she claims she passed it on to OG, ,OG still class it has a missing persons case,how does that fit in with the claims of the Germans.
It doesn't. Do you believe Madeleine is still alive then?
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I'm not a 'sceptic' and even Germany's deputy director general of the judicial system division, federal ministry of justice has criticed the prosecutor's office.
Why do you believe the prosecutor's office in Germany has intelligence about MM unknown to MET/PJ?
Its a fact...they have the memory sticks....that may well be the evidence.
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Not if it was just a few bones. DNA test would be required.
I think Anthro was intimating it was not thus.
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It isn't coming from the German police/BKA. Its from the public prosecutor's office.
Eberhard Siegesmund, deputy director general of the judicial system division, federal ministry of justice has described the public prosecutor's office as follows:
Even though it deserves to be called – actually by dint of statute, and this is something I will be coming back to later
– the “most objective authority in the world”, the public prosecution office is, however, not infrequently said, as the
“cavalry of the law”, to demonstrate a certain “dashing spirit” and is thus thought to be blind in its enthusiasm for
prosecution. Public prosecutors, although said to investigate swiftly and in a straightforward manner, are said to do so,
however, one-sidedly to the accused’s disadvantage, without any sure instinct and without the requisite critical distance.
And that means what exactly? That they have no evidence at all that they are keeping to themselves?
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It doesn't. Do you believe Madeleine is still alive then?
See my tag line.
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Where is the original German statement.
You can find the official statements on the BKA website which can be transcribed to English. I've transcribed parts here but there's more on BKA:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11633.msg601327#msg601327
https://www.bka.de/SiteGlobals/Forms/Suche/Servicesuche_Footer_Formular.html?queryResultId=null&pageNo=0&pageLocale=de&resourceId=4200&input_=48970&templateQueryString=Madeleine+mccann&submit.x=33&submit.y=29
HCW's mouth was like a run away train in an interview which will undoubtedly bring his career to an end in that role. I will find it just for you Barrier.
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I think Anthro was intimating it was not thus.
I'm sure they would do DNA testing anyway even if there was a more recognisable body
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See my tag line.
OK I've read it. So you think she may still be alive then?
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You can find the official statements on the BKA website which can be transcribed to English. I've transcribed parts here but there's more on BKA:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11633.msg601327#msg601327
https://www.bka.de/SiteGlobals/Forms/Suche/Servicesuche_Footer_Formular.html?queryResultId=null&pageNo=0&pageLocale=de&resourceId=4200&input_=48970&templateQueryString=Madeleine+mccann&submit.x=33&submit.y=29
HCW's mouth was like a run away train in an interview which will undoubtedly bring his career to an end in that role. I will find it just for you Barrier.
Why hasn't he been sacked by now then?
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You can find the official statements on the BKA website which can be transcribed to English. I've transcribed parts here but there's more on BKA:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11633.msg601327#msg601327
https://www.bka.de/SiteGlobals/Forms/Suche/Servicesuche_Footer_Formular.html?queryResultId=null&pageNo=0&pageLocale=de&resourceId=4200&input_=48970&templateQueryString=Madeleine+mccann&submit.x=33&submit.y=29
HCW's mouth was like a run away train in an interview which will undoubtedly bring his career to an end in that role. I will find it just for you Barrier.
Your attempts to discredit HCW are laughable
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You can find the official statements on the BKA website which can be transcribed to English. I've transcribed parts here but there's more on BKA:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11633.msg601327#msg601327
https://www.bka.de/SiteGlobals/Forms/Suche/Servicesuche_Footer_Formular.html?queryResultId=null&pageNo=0&pageLocale=de&resourceId=4200&input_=48970&templateQueryString=Madeleine+mccann&submit.x=33&submit.y=29
HCW's mouth was like a run away train in an interview which will undoubtedly bring his career to an end in that role. I will find it just for you Barrier.
Did he actually say hard/concrete evidence and can his statement be transcribed into English as being exactly that.
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And that means what exactly? That they have no evidence at all that they are keeping to themselves?
I dont believe they have a shred of evidence MM is dead and/or CB is involved.
I bet the Mc's are furious about the way in which this is being handled.
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Likewise. My belief certainly gives me more comfort than believing MM met her end at the hands of a depraved individual 8(8-))
One might hope for a much different outcome as have many of us who have been derided incessantly over the years have been doing.
One would have to be incredibly naive not to have been aware of other options.
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OK I've read it. So you think she may still be alive then?
My thoughts don't come into it, but as my tag line says we'll never know, bit like S lamplugh, B Needham.
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I dont believe they have a shred of evidence MM is dead and/or CB is involved.
I bet the Mc's are furious about the way in which this is being handled.
I think they do have evidence of maddies death after CHW 's statement. I don't see any reason why the McCanns should be furious...very sad...but not furious
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Your attempts to discredit HCW are laughable
I don't need to it's already been done by one of Germany's own:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607672#msg607672
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Did he actually say hard/concrete evidence and can his statement be transcribed into English as being exactly that.
CHW speaks very good english and had a 30 min interview with Saunokonoko....who reprted he said "concrete evidence"...no translation i would have thought
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I'm sure they would do DNA testing anyway even if there was a more recognisable body
Absolutely. This much is obvious.
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My thoughts don't come into it, but as my tag line says we'll never know, bit like S lamplugh, B Needham.
We may
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I don't need to it's already been done by one of Germany's own:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg607672#msg607672
That doesnt discredit them...thats 2003...was CHW in the role then
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Did he actually say hard/concrete evidence and can his statement be transcribed into English as being exactly that.
It needs looking at. We've already had one very bad translation. Totally opposite to what it actually said.
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I beleive Sadie claims she has evidence in the form of a video which show's Madeleine alive in 2012,also she claims she passed it on to OG, ,OG still class it has a missing persons case,how does that fit in with the claims of the Germans.
The German claim is that Madeleine has been murdered; they haven't said by whom.
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CHW speaks very good english and had a 30 min interview with Saunokonoko....who reprted he said "concrete evidence"...no translation i would have thought
Would this be the same Saunoknonko whom you had this to say about.
Amarals judgement applies to Portugal only..Saunokonokos podcasts are ful of things that are just not true..like amarals book
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The Germans will have their reasons...protocol is not hard and fast rules. Breukner may or may not be involved....i think based on everything its highly possible he is. This upsets sceptics who resort to trying to undermine the professionalism of the German police. I know Germany....the police are far from unproffesional
So do I and they are.not as professional as you think.
I don't think for one minute sceptics resort to undermining the professionalism of GP Its called comonsence.
IMO you are the one who likes to undermine police forces if they don't fit in with your plan -
if the boot was on the other foot with the germans and blaming mc..your little fingers would be down to the bone
on how unprofessional they are not understanding evidence bla bla bla bla bla.
Surely you must know this with CB is going to fall flat on its face..
And then who will OG be looking at someone else....ore close the case if so it should be case unsolved.
12 million spent on what...........It's embarrassing IMO how you back up everything to fit ur agenda even a Troll
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Did he actually say hard/concrete evidence and can his statement be transcribed into English as being exactly that.
https://youtu.be/IXsXXxRek2Q
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So do I and they are.not as professional as you think.
I don't think for one minute sceptics resort to undermining the professionalism of GP Its called comonsence.
IMO you are the one who likes to undermine police forces if they don't fit in with your plan -
if the boot was on the other foot with the germans and blaming mc..your little fingers would be down to the bone
on how unprofessional they are not understanding evidence bla bla bla bla bla.
Surely you must know this with CB is going to fall flat on its face..
And then who will OG be looking at someone else....ore close the case if so it should be case unsolved.
12 million spent on what...........It's embarrassing IMO how you back up everything to fit ur agenda even a Troll
a typical sceptic biased post..imo
i don't know if this investigation will fall flat on its face and neither do you...im waiting to hear the evidence
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Would this be the same Saunoknonko whom you had this to say about.
Hi spodcasts re the case were full of things that werent true...Ive said many times... the skill is sorting the wheat from the chaff
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The German claim is that Madeleine has been murdered; they haven't said by whom.
They have referred to their suspect as killing MM:
https://youtu.be/IXsXXxRek2Q
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CHW speaks very good english and had a 30 min interview with Saunokonoko....who reprted he said "concrete evidence"...no translation i would have thought
Can you upload the interview please Davel.
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Can you upload the interview please Davel.
Mark Saunokonoko
@saunokonoko
Last Monday I interviewed German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters for 30 minutes about Christian B and Madeleine McCann. To his absolute credit he did not vet any questions in advance. These were some key points that came out of interview #McCann
https://twitter.com/saunokonoko/status/1279336096980066304/photo/1
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https://youtu.be/IXsXXxRek2Q
Thats wrong even at the start saying he is in jail for the rape of the 72 yr old woman.
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Thats wrong even at the start saying he is in jail for the rape of the 72 yr old woman.
wheat and chaff
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I dont believe they have a shred of evidence MM is dead and/or CB is involved.
I bet the Mc's are furious about the way in which this is being handled.
Once again, your beliefs and bets have no bearing on the reality of the situation.
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My thoughts don't come into it, but as my tag line says we'll never know, bit like S lamplugh, B Needham.
Your tagline does not say "we will never know".
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https://youtu.be/IXsXXxRek2Q
9 minutes in, he say's we have strong evidence, which is not concrete is it?
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It isn't coming from the German police/BKA. Its from the public prosecutor's office.
Eberhard Siegesmund, deputy director general of the judicial system division, federal ministry of justice has described the public prosecutor's office as follows:
Even though it deserves to be called – actually by dint of statute, and this is something I will be coming back to later
– the “most objective authority in the world”, the public prosecution office is, however, not infrequently said, as the
“cavalry of the law”, to demonstrate a certain “dashing spirit” and is thus thought to be blind in its enthusiasm for
prosecution. Public prosecutors, although said to investigate swiftly and in a straightforward manner, are said to do so,
however, one-sidedly to the accused’s disadvantage, without any sure instinct and without the requisite critical distance.
LOL. I thought you were quoting a direct attack on HCW, or at least something written crtiticising recent actions taken by the PP, not something that was written when he was still in short trousers! How very disingenuous of you!
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The evidence that the German police say they have concrete evidence. Let’s play your favourite game. Name another police force that have claimed to have concrete evidence of a crime when in reality they had absolutely nothing at all. Apart from the PJ of course ;-)
Yes, it is a game ..but it shouldn't be ....CB is the latest character in the who dun it.
What part do you think the OG are playing when they are another bunch just wanting constant handouts of other people's money.
Looking for a little girl who should never have disappeared in the first place.
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9 minutes in, he say's we have strong evidence, which is not concrete is it?
he may have used different words at different times...
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I'm trying to filter this down to basics.
1. The guy appears to have been in the area.
2. He has a criminal history that goes way beyond nicking fuel.
3. The Met have qualified him as a "suspect" as opposed to the usual term of "person of interest".
OTH, he could be the most prolific [insert worst] offender in history, but simply wasn't involved in whatever happened to Madeleine.
Back on the other side, AFAIK, modern police forces have a strategic process to decide what / how much information needs to be divulged, when and to whom.
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Yes, it is a game ..but it shouldn't be ....CB is the latest character in the who dun it.
What part do you think the OG are playing when they are another bunch just wanting constant handouts of other people's money.
Looking for a little girl who should never have disappeared in the first place.
Its no game...still criticising SY because they support the McCanns...the case may well be solved
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Mark Saunokonoko
@saunokonoko
Last Monday I interviewed German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters for 30 minutes about Christian B and Madeleine McCann. To his absolute credit he did not vet any questions in advance. These were some key points that came out of interview #McCann
https://twitter.com/saunokonoko/status/1279336096980066304/photo/1
In the video posted by Holly we have Wolters talking of hard evidence, in the link you provide we have a third party saying what Wolters said.
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Absolutely. This much is obvious.
Wolters talks of no body or parts.
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In this interview HCW says there is no opportunity for her to be alive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZyYoCyHeBY
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Its no game...still criticising SY because they support the McCanns...the case may well be solved
Who by
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I dont believe they have a shred of evidence MM is dead and/or CB is involved.
I bet the Mc's are furious about the way in which this is being handled.
I totally agree, the Germans are beginning to look stupid now. They thought it was in the bag (excuse the pun) but it wasn't. The DNA all came back negative so unless they find a body or Bruckner confesses they have nowhere to go imo.
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LOL. I thought you were quoting a direct attack on HCW, or at least something written crtiticising recent actions taken by the PP, not something that was written when he was still in short trousers! How very disingenuous of you!
I hardly think an employee/spokesperson is going to be singled out for criticism.
What improvements have been made to the PO since it was criticised?
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Wolters talks of no body or parts.
Ah, well, you would need a bit of this or that.
Personally, I think he sold Madeleine, if he did anything at all.
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Yes, it is a game ..but it shouldn't be ....CB is the latest character in the who dun it.
What part do you think the OG are playing when they are another bunch just wanting constant handouts of other people's money.
Looking for a little girl who should never have disappeared in the first place.
I don't think you really understand how funding of the police works. Do you think those involved in OP Grange will be out of a job when the investigation closes? Does the Met only survive on handouts from the government to investigate unsolved crimes like this? It's really quite nonsensical, the argument that there is a financial motive for keeping the investigation alive.
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I totally agree, the Germans are beginning to look stupid now. They thought it was in the bag (excuse the pun) but it wasn't. The DNA all came back negative.
Only to those who cannot bear to accept they have been wrong all along and the abduction may be proved to be a fact..if that happens it will really upset some people. It may well happen
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I hardly think an employee/spokesperson is going to be singled out for criticism.
What improvements have been made to the PO since it was criticised?
Who knows, but I think that 17 year old criticism is hardly relevant in your desperate attempts to smear HCW or his position. Come back when you find something a bit more recent.
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In this interview HCW says there is no opportunity for her to be alive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZyYoCyHeBY
IMO Maddie is not alive ...they are never going to find her body.
This is what I think even to the extent she would NOT have gone through anything at the hands of CB
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I totally agree, the Germans are beginning to look stupid now. They thought it was in the bag (excuse the pun) but it wasn't. The DNA all came back negative so unless they find a body or Bruckner confesses they have nowhere to go imo.
What DNA?
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Only to those who cannot bear to accept they have been wrong all along and the abduction may be proved to be a fact..if that happens it will really upset some people. It may well happen
Well, I think it's all reverse phycology with you.
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I don't think you really understand how funding of the police works. Do you think those involved in OP Grange will be out of a job when the investigation closes? Does the Met only survive on handouts from the government to investigate unsolved crimes like this? It's really quite nonsensical, the argument that there is a financial motive for keeping the investigation alive.
This case has attracted so much public interest and the Met have spent so much money on it that failure is not an option.
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What DNA?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeline-mccann-investigation-disappearance-saliva-sample-dna-suspect-christian-brueckner-a9571931.html
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This case has attracted so much public interest and the Met have spent so much money on it that failure is not an option.
The Germans are under no obligation to solve this case...its in their hands at the moment. It will be decided on the evidence which we all will see
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This case has attracted so much public interest and the Met have spent so much money on it that failure is not an option.
More money has been spent by the Met on other cases without resolution - there was a TV series on the Met's failings about one such only the other day. People generally are not unreasonable (present company excepted). They realise that some cases may never be resolved no matter how much time and money is spent on them. What do you think would happen if the Met announced they were closing the McCann case without resolution? Rioting in the streets? Cressida Dick's head on a spike?
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wheat and chaff
Wheat or chaff?
(https://external-preview.redd.it/WGQWsPq56U0Tcz9t4ZjPBIGxHcGi9sHAmV3UcmpOFh0.jpg?auto=webp&s=8d0d19aed9975561a1826ba42b50ce36c7b37b59)
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This case has attracted so much public interest and the Met have spent so much money on it that failure is not an option.
But what is the "case"? It might not be just Madeleine.
Failure isn't an option when police fuel public hysteria via the tabloids. AFAIK, the Met haven't done so.
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Wheat or chaff?
(https://external-preview.redd.it/WGQWsPq56U0Tcz9t4ZjPBIGxHcGi9sHAmV3UcmpOFh0.jpg?auto=webp&s=8d0d19aed9975561a1826ba42b50ce36c7b37b59)
Note the answer to the last question is"would not confirm" asopposed to "couldnot confirm" to the previous two.
This means he may well have the answer but refuses to divulge it.
I thinks its impressive he didnt wish to vet any questions...I think its wheat because it matches with everything else he has said
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The Germans are under no obligation to solve this case...its in their hands at the moment. It will be decided on the evidence which we all will see
Or not as the case may be.
At what point in time will you concede there's no evidence?
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But what is the "case"? It might not be just Madeleine.
Failure isn't an option when police fuel public hysteria via the tabloids. AFAIK, the Met haven't done so.
The Met shot themselves in the foot when they released their remit imo.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeline-mccann-investigation-disappearance-saliva-sample-dna-suspect-christian-brueckner-a9571931.html
Is there an original, reliable, source for this? The Indy isn't bad in general, but could have been translating from a tabloid source (hence my question).
I have no idea what the original source was for this so-called saliva sample. If it's the bedspread one in 5A, that was identified well over a decade ago. As was the presumed saliva sample on the pillow from her home.
There could, however, be DNA samples from elsewhere that aren't in the accessible files.
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Note the answer to the last question is"would not confirm" asopposed to "couldnot confirm" to the previous two.
This means he may well have the answer but refuses to divulge it
He lived in the PDL area so how would it be incriminating if a phone, said to be his, was used in PDL around the time MM went missing?
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Is there an original, reliable, source for this? The Indy isn't bad in general, but could have been translating from a tabloid source (hence my question).
I have no idea what the original source was for this so-called saliva sample. If it's the bedspread one in 5A, that was identified well over a decade ago. As was the presumed saliva sample on the pillow from her home.
There could, however, be DNA samples from elsewhere that aren't in the accessible files.
There are some who doubt Redwood when he ruled out tannerman, not much more reliable than a DCI one could get, one hopes.
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Or not as the case may be.
At what point in time will you concede there's no evidence?
You seem to have decided now there isnt....which I find absurd.
Could you expalin how in simple terms I can answer your question until we know as a fact there is no evidence...you obviously havent thought your question through
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He lived in the PDL area so how would it be incriminating if a phone, said to be his, was used in PDL around the time MM went missing?
We need to wait and see what the "strong", "concrete" evidence is. Trying to make conclusions without all the facts is a pretty stupid thing to do
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You seem to have decided now there isnt....which I find absurd.
Could you expalin how in simple terms I can answer your question until we know as a fact there is no evidence...you obviously havent thought your question through
All that is known is that there is an unnamed suspect concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, so in reality all threads about this unnamed suspect should be deleted until such time there is an official naming him. Because there is no evidence linking any one that is named.
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It's some 5 weeks now since the appeal. If the authorities had concrete evidence of anything by way of dna, memory sticks showing MM etc, CB would have been charged no one would be pratting about asking tourists to upload their holiday pics. What are the authorities hoping to see in the background CB's Campervan pulled up on the roadside with him digging alongside it? What a farce!
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We need to wait and see what the "strong", "concrete" evidence is. Trying to make conclusions without all the facts is a pretty stupid thing to do
Or isn't!
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The Met shot themselves in the foot when they released their remit imo.
Op Grange, you mean?
I disagree: it could have changed at any time if new facts had emerged re family involvement.
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It's some 5 weeks now since the appeal. If the authorities had concrete evidence of anything by way of dna, memory sticks showing MM etc, CB would have been charged no one would be pratting about asking tourists to upload their holiday pics. What are the authorities hoping to see in the background CB's Campervan pulled up on the roadside with him digging alongside it? What a farce!
your post seems irrational and desperate that the Germans have nothing.
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Or isn't!
Trying to make conclusions without all the facts is a pretty stupid
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All that is known is that there is an unnamed suspect concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, so in reality all threads about this unnamed suspect should be deleted until such time there is an official naming him. Because there is no evidence linking any one that is named.
That's true. Mark Williams-Thomas pointed out the Germans haven't named CB, because they're not allowed to by law, but have put out enough info to enable the media to pick up and run with it.
If in the coming weeks/months the Germans are unable to deliver I hope CB sues the authorities and media.
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It's some 5 weeks now since the appeal. If the authorities had concrete evidence of anything by way of dna, memory sticks showing MM etc, CB would have been charged no one would be pratting about asking tourists to upload their holiday pics. What are the authorities hoping to see in the background CB's Campervan pulled up on the roadside with him digging alongside it? What a farce!
It is possible that the Germans have solid evidence of Madeleine's death without any provable connection to Brueckner. Without that connection, they are going nowhere.
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Trying to make conclusions without all the facts is a pretty stupid
Time will tell who's stupid.
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It is possible that the Germans have solid evidence of Madeleine's death without any provable connection to Brueckner. Without that connection, they are going nowhere.
HCW states no body/parts.
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Time will tell who's stupid.
I wont look stupid because i havent made any predictions. The Germans may or may not have significantly strong evidence. Youve just made rash satements based on your prejudices.
Its a principle of evidence analysis that you dont reach conclusions until all the evidence is available..might be best to wait until teh Germans tell us what they have
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From the links by Holly it seems as if Wolters says "hard" evidence.The Australian through the medium of twitter transcribes it to concrete, there's the confusion imo.
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That's true. Mark Williams-Thomas pointed out the Germans haven't named CB, because they're not allowed to by law, but have put out enough info to enable the media to pick up and run with it.
If in the coming weeks/months the Germans are unable to deliver I hope CB sues the authorities and media.
why are you so supportive of a paedophile ...rapist. Why do you hope he sues.
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From the links by Holly it seems as if Wolters says "hard" evidence.The Australian through the medium of twitter transcribes it to concrete, there's the confusion imo.
either way...it is not nothing...as holly suggests. Perhaps we could message Mark and ask him. I doubt mark has changed the word...when he has put it on his post in inverted commas...which makes it a direct quote
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why are you so supportive of a paedophile ...rapist. Why do you hope he sues.
Because I believe in the rule of law and justice.
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I wont look stupid because i havent made any predictions. The Germans may or may not have significantly strong evidence. Youve just made rash satements based on your prejudices.
Its a principle of evidence analysis that you dont reach conclusions until all the evidence is available..might be best to wait until teh Germans tell us what they have
The Germans might have zilch too!
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Because I believe in the rule of law and justice.
tyhen you should support the rule of Breukner being investigated when there is reasonable suspicion....i cannot see any reason he has to sue. I havent seen anything said about him which isnt true. Can you...i doubt it
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Davel do you seriously believe the authorities have anything at all when they're asking the public to upload holiday snaps?
No offence to HCW but he does actually look like Mr Bean imo.
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The Germans might have zilch too!
What a ridiculous post...you do your credibility no favours...you havent got a clue what the Germans have.
Are you calling HCH a liar...
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Davel do you seriously believe the authorities have anything at all when they're asking the public to upload holiday snaps?
No offence to HCW but he does actually look like Mr Bean imo.
I actually thought you had a modicum of intelligence....the Mr bean remark shows me even im wrong sometimes.
I beleive the germans have strong evidence... I cant see HCW lying
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tyhen you should support the rule of Breukner being investigated when there is reasonable suspicion....i cannot see any reason he has to sue. I havent seen anything said about him which isnt true. Can you...i doubt it
Whatever his previous crimes he still deserves a fair hearing and the rule of law to apply.
I bet my life there will be some high minded lawyers across the globe following all of this very carefully.
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Whatever his previous crimes he still deserves a fair hearing and the rule of law to apply.
I bet my life there will be some high minded lawyers across the globe following all of this very carefully.
You can't lose your reputation if you haven't got one to lose.
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Whatever his previous crimes he still deserves a fair hearing and the rule of law to apply.
I bet my life there will be some high minded lawyers across the globe following all of this very carefully.
What makes you think he wont be treated fairly by tyhe justice system...what make syou think others including me dont think that. Its you who is prejudging the case ...finding him innocent...claiming theres no evidence against him
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I actually thought you had a modicum of intelligence....the Mr bean remark shows me even im wrong sometimes.
I beleive the germans have strong evidence... I cant see HCW lying
In which case why are the public being asked to help?
https://www.bka.de/DE/IhreSicherheit/Fahndungen/Personen/BekanntePersonen/43_Jaehriger_Deutscher_TV/Sachverhalt.html
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I will ask Holly again...on what grounds can he sue....i think she hasnt thought that through either
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What makes you think he wont be treated fairly by tyhe justice system...what make syou think others including me dont think that. Its you who is prejudging the case ...finding him innocent...claiming theres no evidence against him
I don't need to find him innocent of MM's murder. In the eyes of the law he already is.
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In which case why are the public being asked to help?
https://www.bka.de/DE/IhreSicherheit/Fahndungen/Personen/BekanntePersonen/43_Jaehriger_Deutscher_TV/Sachverhalt.html
I would suggest it is because they can progress no further on the information they have.
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I will ask Holly again...on what grounds can he sue....i think she hasnt thought that through either
On the basis it's being strongly suggested by the public prosecutor's office and tabloids that CB is responsible for the disappearance and murder of MM.
It makes no difference what his past crimes are etc.
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I would suggest it is because they can progress no further on the information they have.
That's how I see it.
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In which case why are the public being asked to help?
https://www.bka.de/DE/IhreSicherheit/Fahndungen/Personen/BekanntePersonen/43_Jaehriger_Deutscher_TV/Sachverhalt.html
so to be clear...you think HCW is lying...there are very good reasons why the public are being asked to help. I agree he shouldnt have to be asking for the this...the PJ should have done it in the first place
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Mind you, if this public participation is so important, why haven't Grange done it in all the years they've been involved ?
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I will ask Holly again...on what grounds can he sue....i think she hasnt thought that through either
On the grounds the public prosecutor's office and tabloids are suggesting he's responsible for MM's disappearance and murder when there's a distinct lack of evidence.
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On the basis it's being strongly suggested by the public prosecutor's office and tabloids that CB is responsible for the disappearance and murder of MM.
It makes no difference what his past crimes are etc.
The police havent named him...have the german press. Whats being reported is that HCW have said there is strong evidence the suspect killed her...we would need to see the evidence before llibel is proven
I dont see he has any case at all
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so to be clear...you think HCW is lying...there are very good reasons why the public are being asked to help. I agree he shouldnt have to be asking for the this...the PJ should have done it in the first place
HCW is a spokesperson for the public prosecutor's office.
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On the grounds the public prosecutor's office and tabloids are suggesting he's responsible for MM's disappearance and murder when there's a distinct lack of evidence.
You simply dont know theres a distinct lack of evidence..
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The police havent named him...have the german press. Whats being reported is that HCW have said there is strong evidence the suspect killed her...we would need to see the evidence before llibel is proven
I dont see he has any case at all
The tabloids didn't see it re the Mc's and Murat until it had to open up the cheque book.
There will be a massive fall out from this.
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HCW is a spokesperson for the public prosecutor's office.
You are suggesting HCW is lying...thats libellous
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You simply dont know theres a distinct lack of evidence..
What does it suggest to you when the public are being asked for so much help including holiday snaps?
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You are suggesting HCW is lying...thats libellous
Where have I said HCW is lying? I keep pointing out he's simply a figurehead.
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The tabloids didn't see it re the Mc's and Murat until it had to open up the cheque book.
There will be a massive fall out from this.
the papers made the assumption the PJ were telling the truth...as Sandra F pointed out...Amaral lied.
I dont see the Germans are lying
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What does it suggest to you when the public are being asked for so much help including holiday snaps?
It suggests the police are building a case...do you understand why they want holiday snaps
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Mind you, if this public participation is so important, why haven't Grange done it in all the years they've been involved ?
A German Subject in Italy for crimes committed in Portugal wherein Britain has No Jurisdiction. Not difficult to work that one out, is it.
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It suggests the police are building a case...do you understand why they want holiday snaps
But if they have the sort of evidence claimed why do they want so much help from the public 13 years after the event?
Why do you think they want hol snaps?
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A German Subject in Italy for crimes committed in Portugal wherein Britain has No Jurisdiction. Not difficult to work that one out, is it.
How are the Germans discrimating over jurisdiction with regard to the public appeal?
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A German Subject in Italy for crimes committed in Portugal wherein Britain has No Jurisdiction. Not difficult to work that one out, is it.
What restrictions would have prevented Grange making such a request, that the Germans have been able to overcome/ignore ?
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How are the Germans discrimating over jurisdiction with regard to the public appeal?
My comment was in reply to a comment about Scotland Yard and Operation Grange.
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What restrictions would have prevented Grange making such a request, that the Germans have been able to overcome/ignore ?
I would have thought that the kerfuffle going on now should answer that question for you.
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I would have thought that the kerfuffle going on now should answer that question for you.
What kerfuffle would that be ?
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But if they have the sort of evidence claimed why do they want so much help from the public 13 years after the event?
Why do you think they want hol snaps?
has there been a previous appeal for hols snaps in germany. I think SY made an apppeal in the UK. The snaps are wanted to se if Breukner is in the background of any photo. it places him in a certain palce at a certain time
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What kerfuffle would that be ?
You mean you haven't noticed?
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You mean you haven't noticed?
I've seen a lot of media excitement. Is that what you mean ?
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On the grounds the public prosecutor's office and tabloids are suggesting he's responsible for MM's disappearance and murder when there's a distinct lack of evidence.
The Portuguese police publicly named the McCanns and Robert Murat arguidos, suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. There was a veritable media shit storm that resulted. Did the PJ get sued? Did anyone lose their jobs as a direct result of making any of them suspects?
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Where have I said HCW is lying? I keep pointing out he's simply a figurehead.
If he’s simply a firgurehead and not responsible for what he is saying then if he is sacked it will be him who is the scapegoat!
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I've seen a lot of media excitement. Is that what you mean ?
And on here, don't forget. But I somewhat doubt he will be suing The UK Justice Forum.
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We need to wait and see what the "strong", "concrete" evidence is. Trying to make conclusions without all the facts is a pretty stupid thing to do
Well if they wanted the slava sample how do you know they are not interested in what the dogs found.
It is possible in my opinion this is why they think Maddie is dead.
Everything they seem to be working on is here say as said many times nothing concrete or he would be charged.
Why do they think Maddie is dead no one has told them that its possible the reason for it is the same as GA. said
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Well if they wanted the slava sample how do you know they are not interested in what the dogs found.
It is possible in my opinion this is why they think Maddie is dead.
Everything they seem to be working on is here say as said many times nothing concrete or he would be charged.
Why do they think Maddie is dead no one has told them that its possible the reason for it is the same as GA. said
Unless Brueckner also told his pal he ran her over by accident. Wouldn't that be a revelation for the case?
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Unless Brueckner also told his pal he ran her over by accident. Wouldn't that be a revelation for the case?
IT certainly would.
Also, GA was on the right track in thinking Maddie died by accident.
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I don't need to find him innocent of MM's murder. In the eyes of the law he already is.
He isn't innocent in the eyes of the law...he's entitled to the presumption of innocence...theres a difference
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Well if they wanted the slava sample how do you know they are not interested in what the dogs found.
It is possible in my opinion this is why they think Maddie is dead.
Everything they seem to be working on is here say as said many times nothing concrete or he would be charged.
Why do they think Maddie is dead no one has told them that its possible the reason for it is the same as GA. said
Stop dreaming...CWH said they have strong evidence Maddie is dead and their suspect killed her
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Stop dreaming...CWH said they have strong evidence Maddie is dead and their suspect killed her
CWH or HCW?
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Stop dreaming...CWH said they have strong evidence Maddie is dead and their suspect killed her
Well, he seems to think Maddie is Dead......maybe has got strong evidence she is....[still could be the dogs]
But at this moment in time, he is struggling to make CB the culprit.
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He isn't innocent in the eyes of the law...he's entitled to the presumption of innocence...theres a difference
No difference:
The presumption of innocence is the legal principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty. In many countries, the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial, and it is an international human right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11.
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Davel at what point will you consider all of this is going nowhere? Autumn, Christmas, when?
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Well, he seems to think Maddie is Dead......maybe has got strong evidence she is....[still could be the dogs]
But at this moment in time, he is struggling to make CB the culprit.
the dogs are not strong evidence...when will you realise
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No difference:
The presumption of innocence is the legal principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty. In many countries, the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial, and it is an international human right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11.
there is a big difference...ask Barry George
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the dogs are not strong evidence...when will you realise
Neither is what the Germans have. when will you realize?
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Davel at what point will you consider all of this is going nowhere? Autumn, Christmas, when?
Who says its going nowhere.....it may go nowhere ...I'm interested to see what this strong evidence is
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Neither is what the Germans have. when will you realize?
you have no idea what the Germans have
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you have no idea what the Germans have
Lol neither do you. you have to admit it could be nothing D
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Lol neither do you. you have to admit it could be nothing D
Neither is what the Germans have. when will you realize? was your post
so you admit now you dont know
I dont think the germans would say what they have if they have nothing
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Davel at what point will you consider all of this is going nowhere? Autumn, Christmas, when?
when will you realise your theory is wrong...its been a year now
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Neither is what the Germans have. when will you realize? was your post
so you admit now you dont know
I dont think the germans would say what they have if they have nothing
You know full well I meant no evidence on CB...seems only you cling to the germans every word
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when will you realise your theory is wrong...its been a year now
You mean 5 weeks
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You know full well I meant no evidence on CB...seems only you cling to the germans every word
The Germans say they have strong evidence their suspect killed Maddie......I see no reason why that shouldnt be taken seriously. i dont cling to words i follow the evidence.
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You mean 5 weeks
I mean one year. Holly thinks shes solved the case and sent it to SY and the portuguese a year ago....looks like its gone straight in the bin
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The Germans say they have strong evidence their suspect killed Maddie......I see no reason why that shouldnt be taken seriously. i dont cling to words i follow the evidence.
What evidence?
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CWH or HCW?
As long as hes not HCA
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when will you realise your theory is wrong...its been a year now
You do realise the MET have been working on CB for the last 2 years?
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You do realise the MET have beeb working on CB for the last 2 years?
3 yrs isn't it after the 2017 tenth anniversary update.
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You do realise the MET have beeb working on CB for the last 2 years?
Yes...theres no evidence theyve worked on yours at all though....Im very interested in the germans strong/concrete evidence
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Yes...theres no evidence theyve worked on yours at all though....Im very interested in the germans strong/concrete evidence
Remind us what that is again?
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Remind us what that is again?
It's a secret.
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It's a secret.
It’s so secret even the Germans don’t know what it is.
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Correct me if I'm wrong ... but isn't that an amended statement from the original. If so it would show that he tends to update articles as new information becomes available.
I have just checked ... and I am not wrong on this ... so he definitely has shown precedence for going with the flow.
IAN HORROCKS 2 MADELEINE MCCANN REPORTS 03/07/2012 & 14/10/2013 COMPARISON
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Ian_Horrocks.htm
Gosh, I missed this. Well found Brie.
I take my hat off to Colin Sutton for showing the courage and integrity to publicly change his stance so dramatically. With his previous views being so loudly acclaimed and commented on, it cannot have been easy for him to alter his views so dramatically. Well done sir.
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I beleive Sadie claims she has evidence in the form of a video which show's Madeleine alive in 2012,also she claims she passed it on to OG, ,OG still class it has a missing persons case,how does that fit in with the claims of the Germans.
I would like to correct that. I think that I have always said that I have a video that I found in a precise spot where I went searching. This spot was decided after much research. I have said that based upon several pointers, including wearing British Startrite shoes in a foreign country, I believe this girl to be Madeleine.
There were quite a lot of pointers but I suppose that there could be loads of co-incidences. I don't believe in too many co-incidences.
The upper nose, cheek bones, eye socket and brow are pure Kate as viewed from the 7/8ths side elevation. With my computer ignorance, I only managed to trap the one image. I have an advanced eye for shape and with other things such as energy levels and body shape, I believe this little girl to be Madeleine. But I always know that I could be wrong.
This little girl was also intelligent; she was the leader of a troop of child dancers at a festival
... and the reason I searched for an image was that on the internet there were whispers that Madeleine had changed so no-one would recognise her and she was out and about again. Knowing where to look I soon found her, but months of hard work had gone in getting to that point.
Strangely that video has now been deleted from the internet, but not others of a similar event in other years. $65*. It's my belief that you could almost solve this case just by looking at what has been deleted or altered on the internet.
Nigh night
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I would like to correct that. I think that I have always said that I have a video that I found in a precise spot where I went searching. This spot was decided after much research. I have said that based upon several pointers, including wearing British Startrite shoes in a foreign country, I believe this girl to be Madeleine.
There were quite a lot of pointers but I suppose that there could be loads of co-incidences. I don't believe in too many co-incidences.
The upper nose, cheek bones, eye socket and brow are pure Kate as viewed from the 7/8ths side elevation. With my computer ignorance, I only managed to trap the one image. I have an advanced eye for shape and with other things such as energy levels and body shape, I believe this little girl to be Madeleine. But I always know that I could be wrong.
This little girl was also intelligent; she was the leader of a troop of child dancers at a festival
... and the reason I searched for an image was that on the internet there were whispers that Madeleine had changed so no-one would recognise her and she was out and about again. Knowing where to look I soon found her, but months of hard work had gone in getting to that point.
Strangely that video has now been deleted from the internet, but not others of a similar event in other years. $65*. It's my belief that you could almost solve this case just by looking at what has been deleted or altered on the internet.
Nigh night
Wait, what? You have a video?
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I would like to correct that. I think that I have always said that I have a video that I found in a precise spot where I went searching. This spot was decided after much research. I have said that based upon several pointers, including wearing British Startrite shoes in a foreign country, I believe this girl to be Madeleine.
There were quite a lot of pointers but I suppose that there could be loads of co-incidences. I don't believe in too many co-incidences.
The upper nose, cheek bones, eye socket and brow are pure Kate as viewed from the 7/8ths side elevation. With my computer ignorance, I only managed to trap the one image. I have an advanced eye for shape and with other things such as energy levels and body shape, I believe this little girl to be Madeleine. But I always know that I could be wrong.
This little girl was also intelligent; she was the leader of a troop of child dancers at a festival
... and the reason I searched for an image was that on the internet there were whispers that Madeleine had changed so no-one would recognise her and she was out and about again. Knowing where to look I soon found her, but months of hard work had gone in getting to that point.
Strangely that video has now been deleted from the internet, but not others of a similar event in other years. $65*. It's my belief that you could almost solve this case just by looking at what has been deleted or altered on the internet.
Nigh night
British shoes being worn in a foreign country? It's even possible to buy British shoes in foreign countries in the 21st Century! Even in Portugal!
https://www.spartoo.pt/Start-Rite-b783.php?marque=783&type=1&track_id=adwo&ggnetwork=g&ggcreative=406954238099&ggkeyword=%2Bstart%20%2Brite&ggmatchtype=b&ggsource=s&mkwid=aIbXYTu4_dc&plid=&ggcamp=95254304&ggproduct_partition_id=&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbtxcv6EoXX9Nmh6XetiHctgmvGwoYbD04Bv1yVNFRbAMq-7ONMshWLBoCCNIQAvD_BwE#rst
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British shoes being worn in a foreign country? It's even possible to buy British shoes in foreign countries in the 21st Century! Even in Portugal!
https://www.spartoo.pt/Start-Rite-b783.php?marque=783&type=1&track_id=adwo&ggnetwork=g&ggcreative=406954238099&ggkeyword=%2Bstart%20%2Brite&ggmatchtype=b&ggsource=s&mkwid=aIbXYTu4_dc&plid=&ggcamp=95254304&ggproduct_partition_id=&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbtxcv6EoXX9Nmh6XetiHctgmvGwoYbD04Bv1yVNFRbAMq-7ONMshWLBoCCNIQAvD_BwE#rst (https://www.spartoo.pt/Start-Rite-b783.php?marque=783&type=1&track_id=adwo&ggnetwork=g&ggcreative=406954238099&ggkeyword=%2Bstart%20%2Brite&ggmatchtype=b&ggsource=s&mkwid=aIbXYTu4_dc&plid=&ggcamp=95254304&ggproduct_partition_id=&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbtxcv6EoXX9Nmh6XetiHctgmvGwoYbD04Bv1yVNFRbAMq-7ONMshWLBoCCNIQAvD_BwE#rst)
Trouble is they're made in Portugal or India, not Britain since 2003... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-rite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-rite)
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'German prosecutors are preparing to end their investigation into Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner as they warn probe 'can’t go on indefinitely' amid fears he could be freed from jail in days
........
Lead prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters today warned his team had no plans to 'drag this out unnecessarily' and said they would 'draw a line under' the investigation at some point, the Sun reports.
It comes as detectives are set to learn on Thursday if Brueckner will be released from jail.
The serial sex offender is currently in prison in Germany serving a sentence for drugs offences - and should be starting a seven-year jail term for the rape of an elderly American woman in Portugal in 2005.
But his lawyers have appealed the conviction on a legal technicality and the European Court of Justice is poised to give its verdict in two days' time.
Today police said say they will decide whether to charge him or not 'within months', while Braunschweig's public prosecutor Mr Wolters told the Sun: 'Of course we have an interest in keeping our suspect in custody.
'This gives us access to interrogations in the event of an indictment. We have no endeavors to drag this out unnecessarily. We'll draw a line at some point and see.''
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8523449/German-prosecutors-preparing-end-probe-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8523449/German-prosecutors-preparing-end-probe-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html)
Some Tabloid rubbish in there no doubt but the timescale for charges is months? Interesting....would they be able to put together a watertight case in these few months?
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'German prosecutors are preparing to end their investigation into Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner as they warn probe 'can’t go on indefinitely' amid fears he could be freed from jail in days
........
Lead prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters today warned his team had no plans to 'drag this out unnecessarily' and said they would 'draw a line under' the investigation at some point, the Sun reports.
It comes as detectives are set to learn on Thursday if Brueckner will be released from jail.
The serial sex offender is currently in prison in Germany serving a sentence for drugs offences - and should be starting a seven-year jail term for the rape of an elderly American woman in Portugal in 2005.
But his lawyers have appealed the conviction on a legal technicality and the European Court of Justice is poised to give its verdict in two days' time.
Today police said say they will decide whether to charge him or not 'within months', while Braunschweig's public prosecutor Mr Wolters told the Sun: 'Of course we have an interest in keeping our suspect in custody.
'This gives us access to interrogations in the event of an indictment. We have no endeavors to drag this out unnecessarily. We'll draw a line at some point and see.''
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8523449/German-prosecutors-preparing-end-probe-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8523449/German-prosecutors-preparing-end-probe-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html)
Some Tabloid rubbish in there no doubt but the timescale for charges is months? Interesting....would they be able to put together a watertight case in these few months?
When they haven’t managed it since 2017....I doubt it.
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When they haven’t managed it since 2017....I doubt it.
Depends what they charge him with. They've surely got enough for possession of child porn, allegedly?
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Depends what they charge him with. They've surely got enough for possession of child porn, allegedly?
So why haven't they done so - it sounds a separate case.
Maybe this child porn allegation isn't quite as clear-cut as the media has claimed.
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Depends what they charge him with. They've surely got enough for possession of child porn, allegedly?
Absolutely but specifically in relation to Madeleine.
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So why haven't they done so - it sounds a separate case.
Maybe this child porn allegation isn't quite as clear-cut as the media has claimed.
Indeed. He'd be processed by now if they had a forensic link back to him.
But they're not after the minnow, they're after the Big Tuna (one for fans of The Office there)
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"I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic."
I've been pondering my previous tongue-in-cheek post made on another thread & something rather disturbing came into my mind - so much so it kept me awake last night for hours.
Suppose the PJ have had an "anonymous" tip off regarding the location of Madeleine's body, details of which they haven't shared with the German police. Are PJ now in a race against time to locate the body before German police complete their investigation into CB? It struck me that, if PJ have the body & it's found in Vila do Bispo where GM's phone pinged in late July, PJ then have a complete case against the McCanns (circumstantial, body, dogs, phone pings, hypothesis etc).
The Germans, on the other hand, need the body, confirmation CB used the mobile phone central to their investigation in Luz + forensics linking him to 5A. If PJ refuse to assist the Germans by granting them access to the forensics &/or skeletal remains examinations then the German investigation may not reach a level required for prosecution.
Hypothetically, the aforementioned could result in what may be a unique legal situation whereby the McCanns would need to use evidence obtained by the Germans against CB in defence of a criminal prosecution against themselves. Would Portuguese courts even permit evidence obtained by another country's legal system to be used as such a defence? How could CB be simultaneously prosecuted in Germany for the same crime against Madeleine as the MCCanns would be in Portugal?
I foresee a situation in which the Portuguese could apply for an EAW to bring the McCanns to face trial in Portugal, the UK refuse to extradite based on what the Germans have uncovered & no-one ever sees the inside of a courtroom. The Portuguese would blame the UK, the Germans would blame Portugal & the real criminals would be cock-a-hoop.
All my own, slightly demented, opinion.
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"I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic."
I've been pondering my previous tongue-in-cheek post made on another thread & something rather disturbing came into my mind - so much so it kept me awake last night for hours.
Suppose the PJ have had an "anonymous" tip off regarding the location of Madeleine's body, details of which they haven't shared with the German police. Are PJ now in a race against time to locate the body before German police complete their investigation into CB? It struck me that, if PJ have the body & it's found in Vila do Bispo where GM's phone pinged in late July, PJ then have a complete case against the McCanns (circumstantial, body, dogs, phone pings, hypothesis etc).
The Germans, on the other hand, need the body, confirmation CB used the mobile phone central to their investigation in Luz + forensics linking him to 5A. If PJ refuse to assist the Germans by granting them access to the forensics &/or skeletal remains examinations then the German investigation may not reach a level required for prosecution.
Hypothetically, the aforementioned could result in what may be a unique legal situation whereby the McCanns would need to use evidence obtained by the Germans against CB in defence of a criminal prosecution against themselves. Would Portuguese courts even permit evidence obtained by another country's legal system to be used as such a defence? How could CB be simultaneously prosecuted in Germany for the same crime against Madeleine as the MCCanns would be in Portugal?
I foresee a situation in which the Portuguese could apply for an EAW to bring the McCanns to face trial in Portugal, the UK refuse to extradite based on what the Germans have uncovered & no-one ever sees the inside of a courtroom. The Portuguese would blame the UK, the Germans would blame Portugal & the real criminals would be cock-a-hoop.
All my own, slightly demented, opinion.
Can you summarise for the hard of reading?
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"I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic."
I've been pondering my previous tongue-in-cheek post made on another thread & something rather disturbing came into my mind - so much so it kept me awake last night for hours.
Suppose the PJ have had an "anonymous" tip off regarding the location of Madeleine's body, details of which they haven't shared with the German police. Are PJ now in a race against time to locate the body before German police complete their investigation into CB? It struck me that, if PJ have the body & it's found in Vila do Bispo where GM's phone pinged in late July, PJ then have a complete case against the McCanns (circumstantial, body, dogs, phone pings, hypothesis etc).
The Germans, on the other hand, need the body, confirmation CB used the mobile phone central to their investigation in Luz + forensics linking him to 5A. If PJ refuse to assist the Germans by granting them access to the forensics &/or skeletal remains examinations then the German investigation may not reach a level required for prosecution.
Hypothetically, the aforementioned could result in what may be a unique legal situation whereby the McCanns would need to use evidence obtained by the Germans against CB in defence of a criminal prosecution against themselves. Would Portuguese courts even permit evidence obtained by another country's legal system to be used as such a defence? How could CB be simultaneously prosecuted in Germany for the same crime against Madeleine as the MCCanns would be in Portugal?
I foresee a situation in which the Portuguese could apply for an EAW to bring the McCanns to face trial in Portugal, the UK refuse to extradite based on what the Germans have uncovered & no-one ever sees the inside of a courtroom. The Portuguese would blame the UK, the Germans would blame Portugal & the real criminals would be cock-a-hoop.
All my own, slightly demented, opinion.
If this keeps you awake, a holiday is much needed imo.
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"I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic."
I've been pondering my previous tongue-in-cheek post made on another thread & something rather disturbing came into my mind - so much so it kept me awake last night for hours.
Suppose the PJ have had an "anonymous" tip off regarding the location of Madeleine's body, details of which they haven't shared with the German police. Are PJ now in a race against time to locate the body before German police complete their investigation into CB? It struck me that, if PJ have the body & it's found in Vila do Bispo where GM's phone pinged in late July, PJ then have a complete case against the McCanns (circumstantial, body, dogs, phone pings, hypothesis etc).
The Germans, on the other hand, need the body, confirmation CB used the mobile phone central to their investigation in Luz + forensics linking him to 5A. If PJ refuse to assist the Germans by granting them access to the forensics &/or skeletal remains examinations then the German investigation may not reach a level required for prosecution.
Hypothetically, the aforementioned could result in what may be a unique legal situation whereby the McCanns would need to use evidence obtained by the Germans against CB in defence of a criminal prosecution against themselves. Would Portuguese courts even permit evidence obtained by another country's legal system to be used as such a defence? How could CB be simultaneously prosecuted in Germany for the same crime against Madeleine as the MCCanns would be in Portugal?I foresee a situation in which the
Portuguese could apply for an EAW to bring the McCanns to face trial in Portugal, the UK refuse to extradite based on what the Germans have uncovered & no-one ever sees the inside of a courtroom. The Portuguese would blame the UK, the Germans would blame Portugal & the real criminals would be cock-a-hoop.
All my own, slightly demented, opinion.
They'll need to be pretty smart about it as UK is leaving the EAW system in January
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Can you summarise for the hard of reading?
For the benefit of the hard of understanding, you will need to read it at least 3 times.
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They'll need to be pretty smart about it as UK is leaving the EAW system in January
That's why I asked if they are in a race against time to locate the body. IMO the Portuguese will have no interest in pursuing a prosecution against a German citizen in relation to a British victim. Their interest will rest in CB being successfully prosecuted in Germany for Madeleine's murder & the inevitable repercussions regarding the reputation of the Portuguese justice system, especially the MM investigation team. The McCanns will also be able to consider suing the State for compensation.
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Depends what they charge him with. They've surely got enough for possession of child porn, allegedly?
I thought he was already done for that. His place was searched in 2016 after the Inga Gerhike case child porn was found and then he was serving a sentence for it in 2018, the one where they let him out by mistake for 4 weeks....If I remember correctly.
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I thought he was already done for that. His place was searched in 2016 after the Inga Gerhike case child porn was found and then he was serving a sentence for it in 2018, the one where they let him out by mistake for 4 weeks....If I remember correctly.
Right, couldn't have been a very long sentence, as his current term is for drug offences.
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That's why I asked if they are in a race against time to locate the body. IMO the Portuguese will have no interest in pursuing a prosecution against a German citizen in relation to a British victim. Their interest will rest in CB being successfully prosecuted in Germany for Madeleine's murder & the inevitable repercussions regarding the reputation of the Portuguese justice system, especially the MM investigation team. The McCanns will also be able to consider suing the State for compensation.
Interesting take on it but maybe Wolters priority is keeping their citizen locked up. He has been linked by a public phone-in to the McCann case but maybe they don't mind which case leads to more charges as they allegedly messed up in 2013 and tipped him off to the start of the investigation. An end to the mess is their objective IMO even if it means closing the case. With the public appeal at least they can say they tried every method to get evidence as prosecutors.
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Interesting take on it but maybe Wolters priority is keeping their citizen locked up. He has been linked by a public phone-in to the McCann case but maybe they don't mind which case leads to more charges as they allegedly messed up in 2013 and tipped him off to the start of the investigation. An end to the mess is their objective IMO even if it means closing the case. With the public appeal at least they can say they tried every method to get evidence as prosecutors.
Exactly. I've been saying similar for a week or two.
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If they do have to let Breukner loose then I don't think he is going to have a very nice time.
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Maybe not but that's not really our concern
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If they do have to let Breukner loose then I don't think he is going to have a very nice time.
Why? open borders means he can go where he want's in the eu.
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Exactly. I've been saying similar for a week or two.
Yes and I think it's supported by things like Wolter saying 'it's not so important in Germany' ( to have 100% evidence of death?) and the Judge Thomas Fischer's comments that it was a risk to appeal like this. If they are using a risky strategy it's probably because you want to avoid the alternative which would be a political mess IMO.
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Yes and I think it's supported by things like Wolter saying 'it's not so important in Germany' ( to have 100% evidence of death?) and the Judge Thomas Fischer's comments that it was a risk to appeal like this. If they are using a risky strategy it's probably because you want to avoid the alternative which would be a political mess IMO.
We'll see how big a mess when the ECJ announce their decision tomorrow.
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Why? open borders means he can go where he want's in the eu.
You think no one will know where he is?
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Maybe not but that's not really our concern
It should be.
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We'll see how big a mess when the ECJ announce their decision tomorrow.
I didn't think him winning an appeal was likely but now I'm not so sure. Is this what prompted Wolters announcement fo wanting to wrap the case up?
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It should be.
I wouldn't be too concerned, he's going nowhere, apart from a different wing.
If by some miracle he gets out, he's the most recognisable criminal in Europe at the minute, notwithstanding having long / short hair and smooth / pockmarked face - he won't last long.
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We'll see how big a mess when the ECJ announce their decision tomorrow.
I would imagine ECJ is quite disturbed by how this whole saga has played out during the last few weeks.
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If they do have to let Breukner loose then I don't think he is going to have a very nice time.
Nor should he...he will still be a menace to society.
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It should be.
Why, are you some sort of vigilante ?
I can't influence the outcome so why be concerned about it ?
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I would imagine ECJ is quite disturbed by how this whole saga has played out during the last few weeks.
I didn't realise that's the court he was appealing to. More high profile than I realised!
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I didn't realise that's the court he was appealing to. More high profile than I realised!
It's potentially a serious breach of European law, so will be the only competent Court to hear it.
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Why, are you some sort of vigilante ?
I can't influence the outcome so why be concerned about it ?
He has been convicted of sexually abusing small children and raping old ladies.
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It's potentially a serious breach of European law, so will be the only competent Court to hear it.
I think I might agree with you on that.
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You think no one will know where he is?
Who will check?
If you are an EU national, you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another.
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It should be.
Do you think that when Bruckner is dropped from the investigation, as he inevitably will be, and things move on any supporter will give a tinker’s cuss what he does next ? Look at the lack of support given to the poor Cipriano woman, having to find her daughter, while proving her innocence, all by herself. Shameful.
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Who will check?
If you are an EU national, you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another.
I will recognise him if he turns up anywhere near me.
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Don't worry, Folks. Someone will know where he is. He first will have to leave Germany.
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I will recognise him if he turns up anywhere near me.
And then what ?
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Don't worry, Folks. Someone will know where he is. He first will have to leave Germany.
Worry doesn't come into it.
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If he is released he may well be immediately arrested
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If he is released he may well be immediately arrested
By whom and for what?
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By whom and for what?
by the German police...there may welll be several things he can be charged with...possession of child pornography and held on remand as he is liable to flee
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I think the Germans fear they may lose tomorrow and haven't got anything to hold him, which is why they've been so keen to scupper his parole chance.
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If he is released he may well be immediately arrested
He’s in a German prison....they could have questioned him and charged him at any time.....why wait until he’s released ?
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by the German police...there may welll be several things he can be charged with...possession of child pornography and held on remand as he is liable to flee
He was doing time for child abuse images in 2017/ 2018. I doubt they found more whilst he was locked up and then tried for the rape.
'The German was convicted of sexually abusing a child and possession of child pornography and served a 15-month prison sentence in his homeland.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/05/madeleine-mccann-suspect-could-have-snatched-another-child-say/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/05/madeleine-mccann-suspect-could-have-snatched-another-child-say/)
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He was doing time for child abuse images in 2017/ 2018. I doubt they found more whilst he was locked up and then tried for the rape.
'The German was convicted of sexually abusing a child and possession of child pornography and served a 15-month prison sentence in his homeland.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/05/madeleine-mccann-suspect-could-have-snatched-another-child-say/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/05/madeleine-mccann-suspect-could-have-snatched-another-child-say/)
Not much of a sentence.
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He’s in a German prison....they could have questioned him and charged him at any time.....why wait until he’s released ?
Dav may have seen that happen on Hawaii-5-0 once when he was a young man.
Brueck 'em Danno!
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Not much of a sentence.
Indeed. Though we know of someone found guilty of having thousands of obscene photographs of children on his hard drive yet he wasn’t even given a custodial sentence.
https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswich-man-avoids-prison-after-downloading-over-40-000-indecent-images-of-children-1-5283183
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"I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic."
I've been pondering my previous tongue-in-cheek post made on another thread & something rather disturbing came into my mind - so much so it kept me awake last night for hours.
Suppose the PJ have had an "anonymous" tip off regarding the location of Madeleine's body, details of which they haven't shared with the German police. Are PJ now in a race against time to locate the body before German police complete their investigation into CB? It struck me that, if PJ have the body & it's found in Vila do Bispo where GM's phone pinged in late July, PJ then have a complete case against the McCanns (circumstantial, body, dogs, phone pings, hypothesis etc).
The Germans, on the other hand, need the body, confirmation CB used the mobile phone central to their investigation in Luz + forensics linking him to 5A. If PJ refuse to assist the Germans by granting them access to the forensics &/or skeletal remains examinations then the German investigation may not reach a level required for prosecution.
Hypothetically, the aforementioned could result in what may be a unique legal situation whereby the McCanns would need to use evidence obtained by the Germans against CB in defence of a criminal prosecution against themselves. Would Portuguese courts even permit evidence obtained by another country's legal system to be used as such a defence? How could CB be simultaneously prosecuted in Germany for the same crime against Madeleine as the MCCanns would be in Portugal?
I foresee a situation in which the Portuguese could apply for an EAW to bring the McCanns to face trial in Portugal, the UK refuse to extradite based on what the Germans have uncovered & no-one ever sees the inside of a courtroom. The Portuguese would blame the UK, the Germans would blame Portugal & the real criminals would be cock-a-hoop.
All my own, slightly demented, opinion.
No way would the Portuguese be able to concoct a case against the McCanns on finding her body miles from PdL, unless they can find evidence of what they did with the body between 3rd May and the end of July. Good luck with that PJ!
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He’s in a German prison....they could have questioned him and charged him at any time.....why wait until he’s released ?
I've explained before....
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No way would the Portuguese be able to concoct a case against the McCanns on finding her body miles from PdL, unless they can find evidence of what they did with the body between 3rd May and the end of July. Good luck with that PJ!
Pure speculation but this would be possible based on analysis of hair samples provided they belong to MM and were found in certain places. Also if there’s a court case either the prosecution or defence will want further forensic testing using enhanced methods.... As Dr Perlin put it he wouldn’t be using a magnifying glass where a microscope is required.
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Pure speculation but this would be possible based on analysis of hair samples provided they belong to MM and were found in certain places. Also if there’s a court case either the prosecution or defence will want further forensic testing using enhanced methods.... As Dr Perlin put it he wouldn’t be using a magnifying glass where a microscope is required.
So let’s say a hair of Madeleine’s was found in a freezer big enough for a body in a house in PdL. You would also need to find something to link A McCann adult to the freezer. I think the likelihood that this has happened is way lower than the likelihood that CB is involved.
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by the German police...there may welll be several things he can be charged with...possession of child pornography and held on remand as he is liable to flee
I agree. German authorities have said that they have completed their investigation into Brückner re. Madeleine. They did not say they have abandoned their inquiry. They may well have new information since the time they made public the phone numbers that are of interest. Much can be achieved within six weeks.
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I agree. German authorities have said that they have completed their investigation into Brückner re. Madeleine. They did not say they have abandoned their inquiry. They may well have new information since the time they made public the phone numbers that are of interest. Much can be achieved within six weeks.
Where have they said they've completed their investigation? Today they said they would like to conclude it within a few months.
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I agree. German authorities have said that they have completed their investigation into Brückner re. Madeleine. They did not say they have abandoned their inquiry. They may well have new information since the time they made public the phone numbers that are of interest. Much can be achieved within six weeks.
On another forum, it has been said that it is unlikely that Brückner will be freed due to the 2/3 penalty-rule in Germany for the drug-trafficking sentence he is currently serving in Kiel because in the past, he avoided his convictions and broke the parole-orders. German law is strictly, abiding by this rule. That is also the reason why Wolters doesn't seem to be pressed for time to have him convicted.
websleuths/MadeleineMcCann
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Where have they said they've completed their investigation? Today they said they would like to conclude it within a few months.
It's interesting. You reap what you sow. They're probably sifting through the data they have received from their appeal and it may take several weeks to follow up the more promising of leads. But they knew this when they went public, which suggests to me that they're not too concerned about the timescale or him being released, as they've got the child porn charges in the back pocket as a minimum.
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Where have they said they've completed their investigation? Today they said they would like to conclude it within a few months.
German officials investigating Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner are preparing to end their investigation, as police today revealed they hoped to make a decision on whether or not to charge him 'within months', reports suggest.
Lead prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters today warned his team had no plans to 'drag this out unnecessarily' and said they would 'draw a line under' the investigation at some point, the Sun reports.
It comes as detectives are set to learn on Thursday if Brueckner will be released from jail.
The serial sex offender is currently in prison in Germany serving a sentence for drugs offences - and should be starting a seven-year jail term for the rape of an elderly American woman in Portugal in 2005.
But his lawyers have appealed the conviction on a legal technicality and the European Court of Justice is poised to give its verdict in two days' time.
Today police said say they will decide whether to charge him or not 'within months', while Braunschweig's public prosecutor Mr Wolters told the Sun: 'Of course we have an interest in keeping our suspect in custody.
'This gives us access to interrogations in the event of an indictment. We have no endeavors to drag this out unnecessarily. We'll draw a line at some point and see.'
Daily Mail, 15 July 2020.
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German officials investigating Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner are preparing to end their investigation, as police today revealed they hoped to make a decision on whether or not to charge him 'within months', reports suggest.
Lead prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters today warned his team had no plans to 'drag this out unnecessarily' and said they would 'draw a line under' the investigation at some point, the Sun reports.
It comes as detectives are set to learn on Thursday if Brueckner will be released from jail.
The serial sex offender is currently in prison in Germany serving a sentence for drugs offences - and should be starting a seven-year jail term for the rape of an elderly American woman in Portugal in 2005.
But his lawyers have appealed the conviction on a legal technicality and the European Court of Justice is poised to give its verdict in two days' time.
Today police said say they will decide whether to charge him or not 'within months', while Braunschweig's public prosecutor Mr Wolters told the Sun: 'Of course we have an interest in keeping our suspect in custody.
'This gives us access to interrogations in the event of an indictment. We have no endeavors to drag this out unnecessarily. We'll draw a line at some point and see.'
Daily Mail, 15 July 2020.
‘End’ vs ‘complete’. Semantics really.
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It's interesting. You reap what you sow. They're probably sifting through the data they have received from their appeal and it may take several weeks to follow up the more promising of leads. But they knew this when they went public, which suggests to me that they're not too concerned about the timescale or him being released, as they've got the child porn charges in the back pocket as a minimum.
What child porn charges? His property was searched in 2016 and he was serving a sentence for what was found in 2018, then he was tried for rape and drugs offences. I don't think they have anything else on him or why would they appeal publically just before he's due for release. They would have him convicted whilst in prison for the drugs charges. ( his current sentence)
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‘End’ vs ‘complete’. Semantics really.
Well you said 'completed' where as the source says 'preparing to end'. That's a big difference. The fact he says he would like to wrap it up within month (s) plural suggests they are not at the end even though they may just legally be tying things up.
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What child porn charges? His property was searched in 2016 and he was serving a sentence for what was found in 2018, then he was tried for rape and drugs offences. I don't think they have anything else on him or why would they appeal publically just before he's due for release. They would have him convicted whilst in prison for the drugs charges. ( his current sentence)
there dont seem to have been any charges for the possession of child pornography...then that is outstanding
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Well you said 'completed' where as the source says 'preparing to end'. That's a big difference. The fact he says he would like to wrap it up within month (s) plural suggests they are not at the end even though they may just legally be tying things up.
Don't believe everything in the article is totally accurate
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What child porn charges? His property was searched in 2016 and he was serving a sentence for what was found in 2018, then he was tried for rape and drugs offences. I don't think they have anything else on him or why would they appeal publically just before he's due for release. They would have him convicted whilst in prison for the drugs charges. ( his current sentence)
Well the timing is interesting. It takes many months to forensically sift through 1000's of images, perhaps it took 2 years (about 20 months actually) for this provincial force to analyse the cache. In the course of this process they stumble across the apparent images in question (just a theory) and then formulate a plan. Who knows...
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Well you said 'completed' where as the source says 'preparing to end'. That's a big difference. The fact he says he would like to wrap it up within month (s) plural suggests they are not at the end even though they may just legally be tying things up.
Fair enough. We obviously interpret words and context differently.
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there dont seem to have been any charges for the possession of child pornography...then that is outstanding
I provided a source may have been on another thread but he got 15 months. He was also let out mistakenly in 2018 for four weeks whilst serving that sentence. That was reported in the German press when the prosecutors were investigated for that potential 'misconduct'.
Here's one source '2016: He is back in Germany. He is given 15 months in prison for 'sexual abuse of a child in the act of creating and possessing child pornographic material'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394855/Christian-Brueckner-linked-FOURTH-unsolved-case.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394855/Christian-Brueckner-linked-FOURTH-unsolved-case.html)
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Well the timing is interesting. It takes many months to forensically sift through 1000's of images, perhaps it took 2 years (about 20 months actually) for this provincial force to analyse the cache. In the course of this process they stumble across the apparent images in question (just a theory) and then formulate a plan. Who knows...
Maybe but I would think that legally, they would have to go through every image before they charged him if that was the evidence they found ( memory stick). It wouldn't be good if they got half way through, missed a murder and then decided to do pursue that crime later?
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Maybe but I would think that legally, they would have to go through every image before they charged him if that was the evidence they found ( memory stick). It wouldn't be good if they got half way through, missed a murder and then decided to do pursue that crime later?
It could be that they're still on with the analysis, just discovered the alleged images in May / June.
I dunno, I'm reaching.
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They might get him for possession but unless it can be proved that he took the original images, it would be difficult to link him to the death of Madeleine.
He could have been given a pre-loaded stick, or downloaded the images from the web.
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If he was charged prosecutors have to detail the crime, the time and place etc. I don't see how anyone could place him at the scene to fit with the Tapas timeline.
The witnesses out on the road ( McCanns, Tapas, Wilkins) didn't see him. No-one heard him or a crying child. If she was not crying but he took her and she remained asleep....again, no-one saw him. In all these years no other witnesses seem to have seen anyone around 5a that night, only hours before... unless someone can correct me.
I would imagine his lawyers would also question this.
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If he was charged prosecutors have to detail the crime, the time and place etc. I don't see how anyone could place him at the scene to fit with the Tapas timeline.
The witnesses out on the road ( McCanns, Tapas, Wilkins) didn't see him. No-one heard him or a crying child. If she was not crying but he took her and she remained asleep....again, no-one saw him. In all these years no other witnesses seem to have seen anyone around 5a that night, only hours before... unless someone can correct me.
I would imagine his lawyers would also question this.
what you are saying is an abductuion is impossible...that isnt what SY or the Germans think and they have access to more info tahn we do
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If he was charged prosecutors have to detail the crime, the time and place etc. I don't see how anyone could place him at the scene to fit with the Tapas timeline.
The witnesses out on the road ( McCanns, Tapas, Wilkins) didn't see him. No-one heard him or a crying child. If she was not crying but he took her and she remained asleep....again, no-one saw him. In all these years no other witnesses seem to have seen anyone around 5a that night, only hours before... unless someone can correct me.
I would imagine his lawyers would also question this.
I would imagine that the man seen by Jane Tanner carrying a little barefoot girl away from the direction of 5A might assume renewed prominence.
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I would imagine that the man seen by Jane Tanner carrying a little barefoot girl away from the direction of 5A might assume renewed prominence.
Then you would be saying Scotland Yard mistakenly identified him and made a huge error.
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I would imagine that the man seen by Jane Tanner carrying a little barefoot girl away from the direction of 5A might assume renewed prominence.
In what respect?
she couldn't identify him anyway, and the time line would come back into the spotlight.
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what you are saying is an abductuion is impossible...that isnt what SY or the Germans think and they have access to more info tahn we do
What I'm saying is that none of the people , Tanner, Gerry, Wilkins, or anyone else says they saw any other man but Tannerman at that time around 5a. No-one in 13 years has come forward to say they saw anyone else as far as we know or they wouldn't need to appeal again.
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What I'm saying is that none of the people , Tanner, Gerry, Wilkins, or anyone else says they saw any other man but Tannerman at that time around 5a. No-one in 13 years has come forward to say they saw anyone else as far as we know or they wouldn't need to appeal again.
No one saw him....doesnt mean he wasnt there
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No one saw him....doesnt mean he wasnt there
Yes but the prosecution and judge has to examine evidence that might exonerate the defendent. They would no doubt question the timings and lack of sightings as would Bruckner's lawyers. This imo. is why there may never be charges. He can only really be place there by a witness as far as I can see, or DNA from the apartment.
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No one saw him....doesnt mean he wasnt there
No one saw Maddie die in the apartment....doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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In what respect?
she couldn't identify him anyway, and the time line would come back into the spotlight.
jane said he had 'dark hair' and '5'7 to 5'8'. Mediterranean, 35 - 40 at the time. Nothing like Bruckner, put that together with the head of Op. Grange saying they identified him and it doesn't really add up as being useful to the prosecution.
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No one saw him....doesnt mean he wasnt there
As I looked upon a stair
I saw a man who wasn't there
he wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away!
ANON.
Yeah, maybe he was there in plain sight and no one saw him... um how would that work again?
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As I looked upon a stair
I saw a man who wasn't there
he wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away!
ANON.
Yeah, maybe he was there in plain sight and no one saw him... um how would that work again?
The Germans and SY believe abduction was possible...seems right to me
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Then you would be saying Scotland Yard mistakenly identified him and made a huge error.
I am saying nothing of the kind.
I am saying that the child seen by Jane Tanner within feet of Madeleine's bedroom being carried away was almost certainly Madeleine McCann.
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In what respect?
she couldn't identify him anyway, and the time line would come back into the spotlight.
If Jane Tanner had seen, instead of a child, a man carrying a television away from the apartment and the McCanns subsequently noticed the television had been stolen from the apartment ... what conclusion do you think might have been drawn from that.
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I am saying nothing of the kind.
I am saying that the child seen by Jane Tanner within feet of Madeleine's bedroom being carried away was almost certainly Madeleine McCann.
@)(++(*
who looked NOTHING like CB. Explain how he could get in and out of the bedroom as Gerry had just left a few minutes before AND was chatting outside the apartment?
This is gonna be good!
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If Jane Tanner had seen, instead of a child, a man carrying a television away from the apartment and the McCanns subsequently noticed the television had been stolen from the apartment ... what conclusion do you think might have been drawn from that.
Yes...
"If Jane Tanner had seen " very good choice of words indeed. IF...
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@)(++(*
who looked NOTHING like CB. Explain how he could get in and out of the bedroom as Gerry had just left a few minutes before AND was chatting outside the apartment?
This is gonna be good!
Sigh ... unfortunately your post is far too silly for words ... so my response (lack of) to your goad is not going to be nearly as good as you expect.
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@)(++(*
who looked NOTHING like CB. Explain how he could get in and out of the bedroom as Gerry had just left a few minutes before AND was chatting outside the apartment?
This is gonna be good!
As I understand Gerry was at the side of the apartment...out of sight of the window and the front door
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@)(++(*
who looked NOTHING like CB. Explain how he could get in and out of the bedroom as Gerry had just left a few minutes before AND was chatting outside the apartment?
This is gonna be good!
i love the way mcann supporters call it maddies bedroom it wasnt her bedroom it was a hotel room
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i love the way mcann supporters call it maddies bedroom it wasnt her bedroom it was a hotel room
I've never heard anyone call it Maddie's bedroom....and it was an apartment not a hotel.
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Yes...
"If Jane Tanner had seen " very good choice of words indeed. IF...
Please desist from
(a) putting words in mine or any other member's mouth
(b) implying libel regarding Jane Tanner.
She has been traduced for many years for the simple fact she may very well have witnessed Madeleine's kidnapping, it doesn't happen here.
I am now disengaging from any contact with you ... please make the attempt to abide by forum rules which you have broken in each of your two responses to my posts.
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Sigh ... unfortunately your post is far too silly for words ... so my response (lack of) to your goad is not going to be nearly as good as you expect.
It wasn't a goad, it was a request offering you a platform to share your knowledge by explaining how he did it in that very short time frame.
However, by your pathetic reply, I take it you cannot answer that question, because you make a statement you cannot back up you call my posts silly- Oh My! Pass the hankies.
We could have notified the PJ as I believe they were perplexed by that scenario as well.
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I've explained before....
No you dodged the question as always.
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They might get him for possession but unless it can be proved that he took the original images, it would be difficult to link him to the death of Madeleine.
He could have been given a pre-loaded stick, or downloaded the images from the web.
You're right, depending on the time gap, physical forensics may be less problematic to procure than electronic, which is arse about face to the norm.
Irrespective, I imagine it's a long, time consuming and utterly horrendous undertaking.
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If he was charged prosecutors have to detail the crime, the time and place etc. I don't see how anyone could place him at the scene to fit with the Tapas timeline.
The witnesses out on the road ( McCanns, Tapas, Wilkins) didn't see him. No-one heard him or a crying child. If she was not crying but he took her and she remained asleep....again, no-one saw him. In all these years no other witnesses seem to have seen anyone around 5a that night, only hours before... unless someone can correct me.
I would imagine his lawyers would also question this.
I don’t think Madeleine would have necessarily cried, since she was used to be among strangers during her holiday. She could have been told she will be taken to her parents (?).
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jane said he had 'dark hair' and '5'7 to 5'8'. Mediterranean, 35 - 40 at the time. Nothing like Bruckner, put that together with the head of Op. Grange saying they identified him and it doesn't really add up as being useful to the prosecution.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/10/new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-everything-know/
A bag with wigs was found at his farmhouse.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/10/new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-everything-know/
A bag with wigs was found at his farmhouse.
Didn't he leave that house in 2006 when he went to prison?
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g unit i dont think there is any evidence he kidnapped/killed maddie some seem to be clinging to that though
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g unit i dont think there is any evidence he kidnapped/killed maddie some seem to be clinging to that though
Its tenuous at best imo.
Prosecutors believe Christian Brueckner, 43, is the prime suspect in the case
Despite their confidence, they do not have evidence to charge Brueckner
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8528125/Police-close-identifying-caller-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-spoke-night-vanished.html
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I've never heard anyone call it Maddie's bedroom....and it was an apartment not a hotel.
Why are you denying somthing a couple of posts above yours ....what B posted.
Snip
Jane Tanner within feet of Madeleine's bedroom being carried
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Its tenuous at best imo.
Prosecutors believe Christian Brueckner, 43, is the prime suspect in the case
Despite their confidence, they do not have evidence to charge Brueckner
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8528125/Police-close-identifying-caller-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-spoke-night-vanished.html
I think we can guarantee he won't be cleared or declared innocent
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Didn't he leave that house in 2006 when he went to prison?
April 2007: He moves out of a farmhouse and into a campervan linked to the crime. The farmhouse is cleaned and a bag of wigs is found.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8443371/Former-lawyer-Christian-Bruckner-says-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html
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Why are you denying somthing a couple of posts above yours ....what B posted.
Snip
Jane Tanner within feet of Madeleine's bedroom being carried
I didnt see Briettas post so my post is accurate
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I didnt see Briettas post so my post is accurate
Ah so it seems your tunnel vision..... you only see what You want to see.D
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Ah so it seems your tunnel vision..... you only see what You want to see.D
The topic of the thread is "If Brueckner is Never Charged". Please confine your comments to that topic. Thank you
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Ah so it seems your tunnel vision..... you only see what You want to see.D
Is that supposed to be an opinion or an ad hom.....best stop the snide remarks or you might get an answer you dont like... i havent callled anyone stupid for some time....but its a pretty stupid post
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I am saying nothing of the kind.
I am saying that the child seen by Jane Tanner within feet of Madeleine's bedroom being carried away was almost certainly Madeleine McCann.
Yet Andy Redwood said 'almost certainly' the man was an innocent holiday maker. So how could that man 'almost certainly' be holding Madeleine? If it was her Redwood must be wrong in his certainty.
'Det Ch Insp Redwood said it had been a "revelation moment" when police discovered a man seen by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner at 21:15 was almost certainly an innocent British holiday-maker collecting his two-year-old daughter from a nearby creche.
He said: "Our focus in terms of understanding what happened on the night of 3 May has now given us a shift of emphasis.
"It takes us through to a position at 10pm when we see another man who is walking towards the ocean, close by to the apartment, with a young child in his arms.'
Bruckner's defence team and the judge would be asking the same questions as far as I can see.
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Yet Andy Redwood said 'almost certainly' the man was an innocent holiday maker. So how could that man 'almost certainly' be holding Madeleine? If it was her Redwood must be wrong in his certainty.
'Det Ch Insp Redwood said it had been a "revelation moment" when police discovered a man seen by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner at 21:15 was almost certainly an innocent British holiday-maker collecting his two-year-old daughter from a nearby creche.
He said: "Our focus in terms of understanding what happened on the night of 3 May has now given us a shift of emphasis.
"It takes us through to a position at 10pm when we see another man who is walking towards the ocean, close by to the apartment, with a young child in his arms.'
Bruckner's defence team and the judge would be asking the same questions as far as I can see.
Redwood said ...almost certainly....which means he wasnt totally sure. the investigation has no doubt moved on from there now
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Redwood said ...almost certainly....which means he wasnt totally sure. the investigation has no doubt moved on from there now
https://youtu.be/OZ8jmdWlB8Y?t=1277 (https://youtu.be/OZ8jmdWlB8Y?t=1277)
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Even the ever present in the tabloids. 'friend of the McCann's'. thinks the Germans will be embarrassed and there is
a lack of evidence.
"A friend of the McCanns told the Daily Mail that they have had their hopes raised as a prime suspect was named — but are now preparing for the worst.
"It looks like the latest suspect could be ruled out because there is not sufficient evidence to charge him, which would be a huge embarrassment to the German authorities and very disappointing but not a total surprise to Kate and Gerry," the friend said.
"It had initially appeared such a vital and solid lead, and the breakthrough they had been dreaming of, but there seems to be a lack of any real evidence.''
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348429 (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348429)
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Redwood said ...almost certainly....which means he wasnt totally sure. the investigation has no doubt moved on from there now
Which clashes with Brietta's 'almost certain' the child was Madeleine doesn't it? The two things are totally incongruent.
Chief of the met op. being 'almost sure' means very little it seems. You put faith in What Wolters has behind the scenes but seem to think Redwood has very little to identify Tanner man.
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Which clashes with Brietta's 'almost certain' the child was Madeleine doesn't it? The two things are totally incongruent.
Chief of the met op. being 'almost sure' means very little it seems. You put faith in What Wolters has behind the scenes but seem to think Redwood has very little to identify Tanner man.
If only Brueckner could have been persuaded to turn up for a reconstitution (Jane Tanner did say that although she did not see his features his gait and posture might ring a bell with her) all might have been revealed.
But according to Amaral he was out when the police called.
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If only Brueckner could have been persuaded to turn up for a reconstitution (Jane Tanner did say that although she did not see his features his gait and posture might ring a bell with her) all might have been revealed.
But according to Amaral he was out when the police called.
Out of where? He was of no fixed abode at the time. Did Amaral knock on his van?
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As coordinator, I don't suppose he knocked on anybody's door, but relied on others to do that.
IMO
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If only Brueckner could have been persuaded to turn up for a reconstitution (Jane Tanner did say that although she did not see his features his gait and posture might ring a bell with her) all might have been revealed.
But according to Amaral he was out when the police called.
jane described the man as having 'glossy dark hair' and 35 to 40. Then she went on to 'recognise' Murat. Neither are like Bruckner, who was much younger, taller and very blonde.
Do you not think Jane would be able to help now. She could contact police and say if it was Bruckner or not.
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jane described the man as having 'glossy dark hair' and 35 to 40. Then she went on to 'recognise' Murat. Neither are like Bruckner, who was much younger, taller and very blonde.
Do you not think Jane would be able to help now. She could contact police and say if it was Bruckner or not.
Jane Tanner did not recognise Murat.
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As coordinator, I don't suppose he knocked on anybody's door, but relied on others to do that.
IMO
But he is twisting the truth. How could they have knocked on his door when CB had no home at the time. He lived in his van.
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jane described the man as having 'glossy dark hair' and 35 to 40. Then she went on to 'recognise' Murat. Neither are like Bruckner, who was much younger, taller and very blonde.
Do you not think Jane would be able to help now. She could contact police and say if it was Bruckner or not.
Could be an accomplice
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Even the ever present in the tabloids. 'friend of the McCann's'. thinks the Germans will be embarrassed and there is
a lack of evidence.
"A friend of the McCanns told the Daily Mail that they have had their hopes raised as a prime suspect was named — but are now preparing for the worst.
"It looks like the latest suspect could be ruled out because there is not sufficient evidence to charge him, which would be a huge embarrassment to the German authorities and very disappointing but not a total surprise to Kate and Gerry," the friend said.
"It had initially appeared such a vital and solid lead, and the breakthrough they had been dreaming of, but there seems to be a lack of any real evidence.''
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348429 (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348429)
HCW said he had evidence maddie is dead and his suspect killed her...evidence but not proof.....it would be interesting to know what that evidence is
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As coordinator, I don't suppose he knocked on anybody's door, but relied on others to do that.
IMO
Did I say coordinator called? I said - the police called. Without checking I don't recall offhand if Amaral stated which branch of the Portuguse police called. But he stated someone had.
One wonders why they called.
One wonders why they didn't look for him if they took the bother to call in the first instance ... when he wasn't in.
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HCW said he had evidence maddie is dead and his suspect killed her...evidence but not proof.....it would be interesting to know what that evidence is
An image on a memory stick and the dog alerts. Quite compelling I agree.
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Jane Tanner did not recognise Murat.
I am almost certain she did. Anyway. Do you not think Jane could tell the Germans now if she recognises Bruckner or not? It could be just what they need to bring charges.
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An image on a memory stick and the dog alerts. Quite compelling I agree.
your opinion and totally misguided...if the alerts are genuine they prove Breukner was not involved
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I am almost certain she did. Anyway. Do you not think Jane could tell the Germans now if she recognises Bruckner or not? It could be just what they need to bring charges.
Poor Jane. She's probably haunted by this.
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your opinion and totally misguided...if the alerts are genuine they prove Breukner was not involved
You catch on....slowly
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You catch on....slowly
Im so far ahead of you its beautiful
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An image on a memory stick and the dog alerts. Quite compelling I agree.
This is not true. Please, don't twist.
Germans repeated that they have evidence that only the abductor can know. Also the extra evidence that SY don't know. They also might know the way Madeleine died.
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This is not true. Please, don't twist.
Germans repeated that they have evidence that only the abductor can know. Also the extra evidence that SY don't know. They also might know the way Madeleine died.
Please provide a cite for these extraordinary claims.
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This is not true. Please, don't twist.
Germans repeated that they have evidence that only the abductor can know. Also the extra evidence that SY don't know. They also might know the way Madeleine died.
Where have they said this?
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Jane Tanner did not recognise Murat.
She liked the look of this guy though (80%)
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P15/15_VOLUME-XVa_Page_3979.jpg)
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Poor Jane. She's probably haunted by this.
No 'probably' about it. Jane was traumatised by the thought she saw Madeleine being abducted and did not do anything about it. She is on record on video saying so.
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She liked the look of this guy though (80%)
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P15/15_VOLUME-XVa_Page_3979.jpg)
My sweet lord!
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No 'probably' about it. Jane was traumatised by the thought she saw Madeleine being abducted and did not do anything about it. She is on record on video saying so.
I'm serious by the way. Her life is collateral damage in all this.
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Don't be silly now. That sketch could have been Bruckner. Wig, false teeth, false eyebrows.....
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My sweet lord!
Are you saying it's George Harrison?
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I'm serious by the way. Her life is collateral damage in all this.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
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Are you saying it's George Harrison?
Now you mention it.......
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Even the ever present in the tabloids. 'friend of the McCann's'. thinks the Germans will be embarrassed and there is
a lack of evidence.
"A friend of the McCanns told the Daily Mail that they have had their hopes raised as a prime suspect was named — but are now preparing for the worst.
"It looks like the latest suspect could be ruled out because there is not sufficient evidence to charge him, which would be a huge embarrassment to the German authorities and very disappointing but not a total surprise to Kate and Gerry," the friend said.
"It had initially appeared such a vital and solid lead, and the breakthrough they had been dreaming of, but there seems to be a lack of any real evidence.''
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348429 (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12348429)
Interesting use of words ‘their hopes had been raised’ and ‘very disappointing’. We a talking about evidence against a predatory paedophile.
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Don't be silly now. That sketch could have been Bruckner. Wig, false teeth, false eyebrows.....
Indeed.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Indeed.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fboards.theforce.net%2Fthreads%2Fover-six-years-and-twenty-frakkin-thousand-posts.28573649%2F&psig=AOvVaw1B4OjsuujnwrNAe714In8_&ust=1594991734874000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPD8nsTt0eoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ)
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Interesting use of words ‘their hopes had been raised’ and ‘very disappointing’. We a talking about evidence against a predatory paedophile.
'The break through they'd been dreaming of'
I'd have thought that would be getting Maddie home safely, not her having been murdered by a paedo.
Oh well, whatever makes them happy.
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Interesting use of words ‘their hopes had been raised’ and ‘very disappointing’. We a talking about evidence against a predatory paedophile.
Who could have sold Madeleine to a family.
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Who could have sold Madeleine to a family.
Because that's what paedophiles do when confronted with the unfettered access to object of all of their twisted, deviant desires.
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Please provide a cite for these extraordinary claims.
"Mr Reichelt said today Christian B has "knowledge" of the case that only the suspect could know."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11816386/madeleine-mccann-cops-body-killed/
"Madeleine McCann police 'don't know where she's buried but know how she was killed'. Julian Reichelt, the editor of Germany's Bild .."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-dont-know-madeleine-mccann-22162455
"Mr Wolters said prosecutors have ‘concrete evidence’, but not ‘forensic evidence’ that Madeleine was killed by the suspect and may ‘know more’ than Scotland Yard, who are still treating the case as a missing person investigation."
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/15/madeleine-mccann-prosecutors-preparing-drop-investigation-12991474/?ito=cbshare
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Because that's what paedophiles do when confronted with the unfettered access to object of all of their twisted, deviant desires.
You know this, do you? Goodness me.
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Indeed.
No disguising the shape of the nose or the high cheekbones ... even the shape of the eyebrows is similar. Taking the years between who is to say he didn't have greasy dark hair in 2007.
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Because that's what paedophiles do when confronted with the unfettered access to object of all of their twisted, deviant desires.
You beat me to it.
Predatory paedophiles & rapists are renown for their loving & caring nature towards infants.
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You beat me to it.
Predatory paedophiles & rapists are renown for their loving & caring nature towards infants.
Oh God, not another one in the know.
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No disguising the shape of the nose or the high cheekbones ... even the shape of the eyebrows is similar. Taking the years between who is to say he didn't have greasy dark hair in 2007.
Have you looked at the efit of Peter Falconio’s alleged attacker ? The similarity is astonishing.
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"Mr Reichelt said today Christian B has "knowledge" of the case that only the suspect could know."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11816386/madeleine-mccann-cops-body-killed/
"Madeleine McCann police 'don't know where she's buried but know how she was killed'. Julian Reichelt, the editor of Germany's Bild .."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-dont-know-madeleine-mccann-22162455
This newspaper editor said;
"They have an idea of how Madeleine McCann died - how the killing was actually done...But they do not know - and this is something they admit rather than a tactic - how the killing was actually done."
Is it me or is that a complete contradiction?
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No disguising the shape of the nose or the high cheekbones ... even the shape of the eyebrows is similar. Taking the years between who is to say he didn't have greasy dark hair in 2007.
Let me get this straight for the record; you're seriously suggesting that CB disguised himself as one of The Beatles to abduct MM?
I despair for the future of humanity at times.
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Oh God, not another one in the know.
Are there any known instances of paedophiles selling children to loving families?
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No disguising the shape of the nose or the high cheekbones ... even the shape of the eyebrows is similar. Taking the years between who is to say he didn't have greasy dark hair in 2007.
I agree, Brietta. That picture was taken in 2011. With her expertise in figure-drawing, I hope Sadie will give some feedback.
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Let me get this straight for the record; you're seriously suggesting that CB disguised himself as one of The Beatles to abduct MM?
I despair for the future of humanity at times.
Didn't Amaral say he had long hair at one time?
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Didn't Amaral say he had long hair at one time?
Yeah, but apparently you can't believe a word he says.
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Yeah, but apparently you can't believe a word he says.
But he might have had long hair. Or a Wig. There were some of those found.
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But he might have had long hair. Or a Wig. There were some of those found.
‘A collection of wigs, fancy dress and exotic clothing were left behind in plastic bags’.
https://www.nxg.news/2020/06/07/27066/christian-bruckner-everything-we-know-about-the-new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect/
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‘A collection of wigs, fancy dress and exotic clothing were left behind in plastic bags’.
https://www.nxg.news/2020/06/07/27066/christian-bruckner-everything-we-know-about-the-new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect/
Why did this ever-increasingly adept burglar feel the need for a disguise in the dark?
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Taken in 2006.
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As coordinator, I don't suppose he knocked on anybody's door, but relied on others to do that.
IMO
As the GNR looked in car boots (cf early video footage), it's possible that they had a look inside his van (whichever one he's supposed to have had at the time), if he was still in the vicinity. However, AFAIK they were looking for a living child who might have been hidden.
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Why did this ever-increasingly adept burglar feel the need for a disguise in the dark?
A fetish, perhaps?
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A fetish, perhaps?
Makes sense. Decide to go child kidnapping dressed as Fu Manchu, in his own van, on his own phone.
The pieces of the puzzle are slowly assembling.
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Makes sense. Decide to go child kidnapping dressed as Fu Manchu, in his own van, on his own phone.
The pieces of the puzzle are slowly assembling.
A wig? Perhaps at a pinch, but sticking a great big moustache on? Please......
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A wig? Perhaps at a pinch, but sticking a great big moustache on? Please......
Don't forget the buck teeth, like Peter Sellers as Quasimodo.
But in all seriousness, let's not forget the supposed MO. He rocks up in his own very distinctive whip, on his own phone registered to him (genius) and parks right outside. In the dark. Why in the name of Jerry Maguire does he need to dress up like Yosemite Sam on crack?
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Don't forget the buck teeth, like Peter Sellers as Quasimodo.
But in all seriousness, let's not forget the supposed MO. He rocks up in his own very distinctive whip, on his own phone registered to him (genius) and parks right outside. In the dark. Why in the name of Jerry Maguire does he need to dress up like Yosemite Sam on crack?
Talk about drawing attention - I'd have looked twice.
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"Mr Reichelt said today Christian B has "knowledge" of the case that only the suspect could know."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11816386/madeleine-mccann-cops-body-killed/
"Madeleine McCann police 'don't know where she's buried but know how she was killed'. Julian Reichelt, the editor of Germany's Bild .."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-dont-know-madeleine-mccann-22162455
"Mr Wolters said prosecutors have ‘concrete evidence’, but not ‘forensic evidence’ that Madeleine was killed by the suspect and may ‘know more’ than Scotland Yard, who are still treating the case as a missing person investigation."
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/15/madeleine-mccann-prosecutors-preparing-drop-investigation-12991474/?ito=cbshare
That first one is the opinion of a newspaper editor not the German police.
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Makes sense. Decide to go child kidnapping dressed as Fu Manchu, in his own van, on his own phone.
The pieces of the puzzle are slowly assembling.
True.
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Back to Gail Coopers sighting of the 'moustache' man.
She was close enough to smell garlic on him, '3 feet away' said she made eye contact with him. Described him as 'olive skinned', mediterannean.
Surely if she was that close and it was Bruckner she would have been close enough to see the cheap wig this 'hobo' in a camper van had on and his 'gringo' moustache? She also described her man as 45 - 50. Much much older,
so does anyone think it's credible it could have been Bruckner? We'd have to add fake tan, contact lenses and wrinkle make-up to the equation.
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Back to Gail Coopers sighting of the 'moustache' man.
She was close enough to smell garlic on him, '3 feet away' said she made eye contact with him. Described him as 'olive skinned', mediterannean.
Surely if she was that close and it was Bruckner she would have been close enough to see the cheap wig this 'hobo' in a camper van had on and his 'gringo' moustache? She also described her man as 45 - 50. Much much older,
so does anyone think it's credible it could have been Bruckner? We'd have to add fake tan, contact lenses and wrinkle make-up to the equation.
I don’t think it’s likely, no.
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That first one is the opinion of a newspaper editor not the German police.
The last one (if accurate shows the German case is struggling imo)
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/15/madeleine-mccann-prosecutors-preparing-drop-investigation-12991474/?ito=cbshare (https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/15/madeleine-mccann-prosecutors-preparing-drop-investigation-12991474/?ito=cbshare)
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Are there any known instances of paedophiles selling children to loving families?
According to the paedo experts on this forum (that's experts on paedophiles and definitely not experts who are paedos) paedophiles are not attracted to 3 year old girls so there is every possibility that if this is so, then Madeleine would have been sold on to a loving family. Let's hope....
I also sincerely hope this comment doesn't offend or libel anyone.
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According to the paedo experts on this forum (that's experts on paedophiles and definitely not experts who are paedos) paedophiles are not attracted to 3 year old girls so there is every possibility that if this is so, then Madeleine would have been sold on to a loving family. Let's hope....
I also sincerely hope this comment doesn't offend or libel anyone.
It would have been much easier to just write 'No'.
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According to the paedo experts on this forum (that's experts on paedophiles and definitely not experts who are paedos) paedophiles are not attracted to 3 year old girls so there is every possibility that if this is so, then Madeleine would have been sold on to a loving family. Let's hope....
I also sincerely hope this comment doesn't offend or libel anyone.
I don't think anyone on this forum has claimed to be an expert on paedophiles, so you need to offer some evidence to support your assertion that they exist.
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I don't think anyone on this forum has claimed to be an expert on paedophiles, so you need to offer some evidence to support your assertion that they exist.
There are a few on here who have assured us that paedos don't target three year olds - I doubt they are experts really but they seem to need to sound authoratative on the matter. What do you think? Do you doubt paedos would be interested in a 3 year old girl as has been suggested before by some on this forum as a reason for doubting CB took Madeleine?
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The last one (if accurate shows the German case is struggling imo)
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/15/madeleine-mccann-prosecutors-preparing-drop-investigation-12991474/?ito=cbshare (https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/15/madeleine-mccann-prosecutors-preparing-drop-investigation-12991474/?ito=cbshare)
the article doesn't seem to match the headline..its clickbait. Theres no doubt that investigating a 13 year old crime is difficult. Im interested in this concrete/strong evidence that we will hopefully eventually see. i'm sure if the PJ said they had concrete evidence against the McCanns the supporters would be dismissing it as they are with Breukner
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
Operation Grange stated some time ago that there was one final lead. If that's him, and it fizzles out, then I presume the op will be suspended pending anything new to check out.
I could be wrong, but I presume that while Op Grange is officially about Madeleine, I'd find it logical that it also covers the assaults on the numerous British girls in the area, particularly as there could be connections. The victims and their families in those cases also need closure. If OG doesn't cover them, I'm not aware of a different one that does.
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the article doesn't seem to match the headline..its clickbait. Theres no doubt that investigating a 13 year old crime is difficult. Im interested in this concrete/strong evidence that we will hopefully eventually see. i'm sure if the PJ said they had concrete evidence against the McCanns the supporters would be dismissing it as they are with Breukner
No...........because the PJ I believe were set up to fail.
Too much interference for the case to be investigated properly
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There are a few on here who have assured us that paedos don't target three year olds - I doubt they are experts really but they seem to need to sound authoratative on the matter. What do you think? Do you doubt paedos would be interested in a 3 year old girl as has been suggested before by some on this forum as a reason for doubting CB took Madeleine?
So these 'experts on paedophiles' exist only in your opinion? It sounds to me like you are mocking those whose opinions you don't agree with. I'm no expert but I believe that those who have such leanings do have preferred age ranges and preferred sexes.
Not all those who commit child sexual abuse are paedophiles, by the way.
https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2017/11/11/pedophilia-and-child-sexual-abuse-are-two-different-things-confusing-them-is-harmful-to-children/
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No...........because the PJ I believe were set up to fail.
Too much interference for the case to be investigated properly
more fantasy imo. . .
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So these 'experts on paedophiles' exist only in your opinion? It sounds to me like you are mocking those whose opinions you don't agree with. I'm no expert but I believe that those who have such leanings do have preferred age ranges and preferred sexes.
Not all those who commit child sexual abuse are paedophiles, by the way.
https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2017/11/11/pedophilia-and-child-sexual-abuse-are-two-different-things-confusing-them-is-harmful-to-children/
CB doesn't fit any group...his sexual aberrations range from children to OAPs...that is unusual
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Now you mention it.......
George Harrison didn't have buck teeth.
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CB doesn't fit any group...his sexual aberrations range from children to OAPs...that is unusual
Are you one of them there 'experts'?
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Are you one of them there 'experts'?
I would have thought that Davel's comment was obvious.
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Are you one of them there 'experts'?
Are you resorting to goading...I'm pretty knowledge able about lots of things. Have you ever heard of s paedophile taping a 72 yr old
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Are you resorting to goading...I'm pretty knowledge able about lots of things. Have you ever heard of s paedophile taping a 72 yr old
Perhaps he isn't a paedophile. He didn't seem to have a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
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Are you resorting to goading...I'm pretty knowledge able about lots of things. Have you ever heard of s paedophile taping a 72 yr old
No I’ve never heard of a paedophile taping a 72 year old....how does that work ?
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Perhaps he isn't a paedophile. He didn't seem to have a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
I've been wondering as well.
Mark Hoffman: "... It's all about power and control."
https://twitter.com/60Mins/status/1277196223078776832
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I've been wondering as well.
Mark Hoffman: "... It's all about power and control."
https://twitter.com/60Mins/status/1277196223078776832
People plaster labels on others, but it doesn't mean they're the right labels.
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So these 'experts on paedophiles' exist only in your opinion? It sounds to me like you are mocking those whose opinions you don't agree with. I'm no expert but I believe that those who have such leanings do have preferred age ranges and preferred sexes.
Not all those who commit child sexual abuse are paedophiles, by the way.
https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2017/11/11/pedophilia-and-child-sexual-abuse-are-two-different-things-confusing-them-is-harmful-to-children/
Yes I agree but when the German criminal profiler said as much on the recent TV programme recently at least one of our resident self-proclaimed experts said most authoratatively that he was talking crap, or words to that effect.
the expert's exact words were:
Well that's new; 'many child molesters are not paedophiles'. It might also be about 'weakness', but they're still paedophiles. Jesus.
And I know he'as an expert because he got very upset by what I wrote yesterday about paedo experts.
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Perhaps he isn't a paedophile. He didn't seem to have a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
Yep, you are right. Any old thing will do.
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People plaster labels on others, but it doesn't mean they're the right labels.
Agreed. But have you listened to what he said? I'm aware that there are a lot of experts-come-lately in this case, but what he was raising coincides with your question.
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Perhaps he isn't a paedophile. He didn't seem to have a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
Brückner is said to be a paraphiliac, someone who targets victims of all ages.
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Brückner is said to be a paraphiliac, someone who targets victims of all ages.
There's another new word to add.
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Brückner is said to be a paraphiliac, someone who targets victims of all ages.
I had to look up that term, Anthro. It does seem to potentially fit his profile (based on just his previous convictions).
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Brückner is said to be a paraphiliac, someone who targets victims of all ages.
Is this documented somewhere or just speculative?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Is this documented somewhere or just speculative?
No. He's just a Rapist who rapes old women and a Paedophile who sexually abuses young girls.
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Is this documented somewhere or just speculative?
It appears as a condition in the DSM, as per your link.
PS. If you meant whether he's been officially diagnosed with it... no idea.
Although with his history of convictions, I'd hope that some form of psychiatric assessment had been done.
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No. He's just a Rapist who rapes old women and a Paedophile who sexually abuses young girls.
No just just old women according to that Irish lady who says she underwent a similar experience.
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No just just old women according to that Irish lady who says she underwent a similar experience.
So he doesn't abuse young girls, is that what you're saying?
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No. He's just a Rapist who rapes old women and a Paedophile who sexually abuses young girls.
It appears as a condition in the DSM, as per your link.
PS. If you meant whether he's been officially diagnosed with it... no idea.
I was thinking that anthro had seen published details of his medical history.
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My goodness and they say we think we’re experts. If only google gave out certificates eh.
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My goodness and they say we think we’re experts. If only google gave out certificates eh.
We all will be by the time we've done.
I already know more about Portuguese Law than I ever wanted to. German Law coming up next.
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So he doesn't abuse young girls, is that what you're saying?
Only you could come up with that twist.
I actually said he also rapes younger women.
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My goodness and they say we think we’re experts. If only google gave out certificates eh.
You and at least one other might be surprised how much intelligent people use google to learn. I use it all the time.
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I was thinking that anthro had seen published details of his medical history.
‘Experts have said Christian B matches the profile of a Jimmy Savile-style “paraphiliac”, who targets victims of all ages‘.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11975041/madeleine-mccann-evidence-dead-christian-b-buried-videos/
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Only you could come up with that twist.
I actually said he also rapes younger women.
https://dnyuz.com/2020/06/06/christian-bruckner-everything-we-know-about-the-new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/05/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-being-investigated-over-second-missing-girl
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Only you could come up with that twist.
I actually said he also rapes younger women.
You wrote
“No just just old women according to that Irish lady who says she underwent a similar experience”.
Where do you mention he sexually abused young girls?
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You wrote
“No just just old women according to that Irish lady who says she underwent a similar experience”.
Where do you mention he sexually abused young girls?
Exactly, I didn't mention them because I was replying to Eleanor, who was talking about the RAPE of older women.
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Exactly, I didn't mention them because I was replying to Eleanor, who was talking about the RAPE of older women.
Did you mean to write “NOT just old women”?
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Did you mean to write “NOT just old women”?
Indeed I did
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Indeed I did
Then you will understand why your post did not say what you intended it to say.
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Are you resorting to goading...I'm pretty knowledge able about lots of things. Have you ever heard of s paedophile taping a 72 yr old
He does fit a group. I tried to say it before. He's a sadistic offender. One of the worst and rarest types of sex offender. I was shut down and told not to describe what they are into... but it is not a specific age group they target but the fact that someone is vulnerable.
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He does fit a group. I tried to say it before. He's a sadistic offender. One of the worst and rarest types of sex offender. I was shut down and told not to describe what they are into... but it is not a specific age group they target but the fact that someone is vulnerable.
Thats what I've read...its not about age but control....as the German profiler said on the australian doc
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Thats what I've read...its not about age but control....as the German profiler said on the australian doc
Indeed. I think he fits the profile totally.... but I am not convinced by the evidence that he was in 5a.
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Indeed. I think he fits the profile totally.... but I am not convinced by the evidence that he was in 5a.
I'm convinced it's a reasonable possibility
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I'm convinced it's a reasonable possibility
I think it is probable that when Madeleine’s father checked on the children and afterwards paused outside to talk to Wilkins, Madeleine was half-awake and someone knocked on the front door and she opened it, believing she will be taken to her father. Instead, she might have been placed in a vehicle close-by.
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I'm convinced it's a reasonable possibility
I agree.
It is a reasonable possibility which must be fully investigated to rule him in or out. Not only is it necessary for justice but if Brueckner is innocent of involvement in Madeleine's case he should be officially cleared.
At he moment he is being held in solitary confinement for his own protection.
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I agree.
It is a reasonable possibility which must be fully investigated to rule him in or out. Not only is it necessary for justice but if Brueckner is innocent of involvement in Madeleine's case he should be officially cleared.
At he moment he is being held in solitary confinement for his own protection.
He doesn't need to be cleared, he hasn't been charged with anything.
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He doesn't need to be cleared, he hasn't been charged with anything.
He cant be cleared...there is no legal mechanism to clear anyone. Barry George hasnt been cleared and hes had two trials...if we undersatnd this simple legal point how come the portuguese SC dont...they must be really stupid
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He cant be cleared...there is no legal mechanism to clear anyone. Barry George hasnt been cleared and hes had two trials...if we undersatnd this simple legal point how come the portuguese SC dont...they must be really stupid
The British press don't understand either, since they've often described the McCanns as being formally cleared.
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I think it is probable that when Madeleine’s father checked on the children and afterwards paused outside to talk to Wilkins, Madeleine was half-awake and someone knocked on the front door and she opened it, believing she will be taken to her father. Instead, she might have been placed in a vehicle close-by.
Ah yes half asleep three year olds are always answering a knock on the door after bedtime!!! Really??!! I find this scenario less plausible even than a forced entry that left no forensic evidence!!
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He doesn't need to be cleared, he hasn't been charged with anything.
I can't believe you had to point that out!!!!
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The British press don't understand either, since they've often described the McCanns as being formally cleared.
so the whole cleared thing is meaningless...the SC of portugal no more understands this than The Sun....a total pair of plonkers
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I can't believe you had to point that out!!!!
Its areally good point...spam should point it out to all those who say the McCanns havent been cleared
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Its areally good point...spam should point it out to all those who say the McCanns havent been cleared
It's entirely factually accurate to say the McCann's haven't been cleared.
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It's entirely factually accurate to say the McCann's haven't been cleared.
neither have you
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I can't believe you had to point that out!!!!
have the mccanns been charged with anything
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have the mccanns been charged with anything
No. They don't have to be cleared either... unless they are ever charged of course!
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No. They don't have to be cleared either... unless they are ever charged of course!
Not a chance they'll ever be charged IMO.
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No. They don't have to be cleared either... unless they are ever charged of course!
so breukner hasnt been cleared....do you understand what being cleared means ...it appears you dont
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McCanns not cleared...Bruckner Not cleared either... but McCanns questioned and Bruckner not questioned.
have I got this right?
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McCanns not cleared...Bruckner Not cleared either... but McCanns questioned and Bruckner not questioned.
have I got this right?
What you dont seen to realise is there is no legal statenent as not being cleared...even a not guilty verdict is not being cleaered
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What you dont seen to realise is there is no legal statenent as not being cleared...even a not guilty verdict is not being cleaered
No I do Davel, you have to be tried to be cleared. So Bruckner not charged/not cleared. McCanns not charged/not cleared...but the McCann's we're at least questioned.
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McCanns not cleared...Bruckner Not cleared either... but McCanns questioned and Bruckner not questioned.
have I got this right?
Do you think being questioned means you’re a little bit more not cleared?
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For those who think Portugal was lax in not prosecuting Brueckner for the rape of the 72 year old, in the UK only 1 in 70 reported rapes end in a charge. Just think about that...1 in 70.
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McCanns not cleared...Bruckner Not cleared either... but McCanns questioned and Bruckner not questioned.
have I got this right?
Perhaps I should have made myself plainer.
The McCanns have been exhaustively investigated over a long period ~ questioned extensively and as a result they have been eliminated from the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.
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Perhaps I should have made myself plainer.
The McCanns have been exhaustively investigated over a long period ~ questioned extensively and as a result they have been eliminated from the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.
You hope.
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McCanns not cleared...Bruckner Not cleared either... but McCanns questioned and Bruckner not questioned.
have I got this right?
You still don't understand....
Think about Barry George...tried twice..not cleared...there no such thing as being cleared...it's total nonsense from a legal perspective
Could you make someone who has been cleared. A not guilty verdict is not proof of innocence
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so breukner hasnt been cleared....do you understand what being cleared means ...it appears you dont
Well to me it means cleared of any charges... if however you mean cleared from being a potential suspect in an investigation then neither the McCanns nor the German sex offender have been cleared in the MM case.
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Well to me it means cleared of any charges... if however you mean cleared from being a potential suspect in an investigation then neither the McCanns nor the German sex offender have been cleared in the MM case.
what would it take to be cleared....I know the answer..remember Barry george...desoite two trials...has not been cleared
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For those who think Portugal was lax in not prosecuting Brueckner for the rape of the 72 year old, in the UK only 1 in 70 reported rapes end in a charge. Just think about that...1 in 70.
It's awful.
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Do you think being questioned means you’re a little bit more not cleared?
It may suggest there is more evidence stacked up against you, imo.
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Perhaps I should have made myself plainer.
The McCanns have been exhaustively investigated over a long period ~ questioned extensively and as a result they have been eliminated from the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.
Except the force that investigated them did not say that.
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It may suggest there is more evidence stacked up against you, imo.
im looking for some hard facts re being cleared....its obvious you cannot supply any...why hasnt Barry George been cleared
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Except the force that investigated them did not say that.
Thats because they are a pathetic excuse for a proper police force...imo. the only other case we know amaral investigated relied on beating a confession out of a suspect
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Thats because they are a pathetic excuse for a proper police force...imo. the only other case we know amaral investigated relied on beating a confession out of a suspect
Do you think Amaral only investigated two cases?
Colin Sutton, a British homicide detective, stated that the PJ investigation was thorough and probably couldn't have done much more. I believe his comments carry a tad more weight than your usual "pathetic excuse" post that simply seeks to deride but contains absolutely no substance. I'm not criticising you btw - but that lack of any substance in many of your posts.
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Do you think Amaral only investigated two cases?
Colin Sutton, a British homicide detective, stated that the PJ investigation was thorough and probably couldn't have done much more. I believe his comments carry a tad more weight than your usual "pathetic excuse" post that simply seeks to deride but contains absolutely no substance. I'm not criticising you btw - but that lack of any substance in many of your posts.
Best not criticise my posts when you still haven't supplied a cite for Grime speaking to Saunokonoko
Cite for Sutton's claim...in context please
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i hope those who trash police dpnt call them if they are needed police around the world are a family all police around the world are connected so it would be hypocritical to ask for their help after trashing them for 13 years wouldnt it??
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For those who think Portugal was lax in not prosecuting Brueckner for the rape of the 72 year old, in the UK only 1 in 70 reported rapes end in a charge. Just think about that...1 in 70.
Can you tell me if the other 69 rapes were women who had been blind folded, beaten with a strip of metal then raped?
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Can you tell me if the other 69 rapes were women who had been blind folded, beaten with a strip of metal then raped?
Is there a sliding scale for rape now ? It’s okay if a woman is raped down a dark alley but not if she is beaten with a stick too. What exactly is the point you’re trying to make ?
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Is there a sliding scale for rape now ? It’s okay if a woman is raped down a dark alley but not if she is beaten with a stick too. What exactly is the point you’re trying to make ?
of course theres a sliding scale for rape...how else do you explain the range of sentencing
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i hope those who trash police dpnt call them if they are needed police around the world are a family all police around the world are connected so it would be hypocritical to ask for their help after trashing them for 13 years wouldnt it??
would you agree then that those who trash the McCanns should never call a doctor..its a bit silly isn't it
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Is there a sliding scale for rape now ? It’s okay if a woman is raped down a dark alley but not if she is beaten with a stick too. What exactly is the point you’re trying to make ?
There would be no 'she didn't say no, she didn't try to stop me, she consented to sex' .
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of course theres a sliding scale for rape...how else do you explain the range of sentencing
So you can be a little bit raped and the police are then justified in not charging anyone. Is that it ?
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There would be no 'she didn't say no, she didn't try to stop me, she consented to sex' .
Do you know how many of the rapes reported involved violence ?
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Do you know how many of the rapes reported involved violence ?
Then why wasn't the person convicted?
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Topic please ... "If Brueckner is Never Charged."
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"Charges against Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner are unlikely, his lawyer claimed yesterday.
Friedrich Fulscher said he has not been told what evidence German prosecutors have against his client but it was not up to him to ‘prove his innocence’.
Mr Fulscher said it was for detectives to prove he was guilty.
Brueckner, 43, has denied any involvement in the three-year-old’s disappearance.
‘As things stand now I do not actually believe there will be any charges,’ he said. ‘I do not anticipate a prosecution.
‘Thank God, in our legal system the prosecution has to prove the crime to an accused person and it is not the accused who must exonerate himself.
‘As long as my client does not know what he is accused of, and on what basis, there is no reason to think otherwise.’'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8534875/Christian-Brueckners-lawyer-says-charges-against-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-unlikely.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8534875/Christian-Brueckners-lawyer-says-charges-against-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-unlikely.html)
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"Charges against Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner are unlikely, his lawyer claimed yesterday.
Friedrich Fulscher said he has not been told what evidence German prosecutors have against his client but it was not up to him to ‘prove his innocence’.
Mr Fulscher said it was for detectives to prove he was guilty.
Brueckner, 43, has denied any involvement in the three-year-old’s disappearance.
‘As things stand now I do not actually believe there will be any charges,’ he said. ‘I do not anticipate a prosecution.
‘Thank God, in our legal system the prosecution has to prove the crime to an accused person and it is not the accused who must exonerate himself.
‘As long as my client does not know what he is accused of, and on what basis, there is no reason to think otherwise.’'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8534875/Christian-Brueckners-lawyer-says-charges-against-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-unlikely.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8534875/Christian-Brueckners-lawyer-says-charges-against-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-unlikely.html)
How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges when he admits he dosnt know what evidence the Police have
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How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges when he admits he dosnt know what evidence the Police have
Well it’s definitely not enough to charge him.
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How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges when he admits he dosnt know what evidence the Police have
Because it's been 7 years and this is still the stage they're at? It's quite logical and the german former federal Judge Thomas Fischer agreed. The public appeal was also a risk he said, to me that shows they have very little and decided to take that risk of doing things in public after not getting anywhere in 7 years.
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Because it's been 7 years and this is still the stage they're at? It's quite logical and the german former federal Judge Thomas Fischer agreed. The public appeal was also a risk he said, to me that shows they have very little and decided to take that risk of doing things in public after not getting anywhere in 7 years.
i think its illogical of the lawyer to state that he thinks thewre wont be any charges and at the same time say he doesnt know w hat evidence the police have. We also have the fact again this is a newsaper report and may not be accurate
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i think its illogical of the lawyer to state that he thinks thewre wont be any charges and at the same time say he doesnt know w hat evidence the police have. We also have the fact again this is a newsaper report and may not be accurate
The lawyer clearly knows german law thats why he is one and representing the named but not officially named client so its not illogical for him to say there won't be charges.
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The lawyer clearly knows german law thats why he is one and representing the named but not officially named client so its not illogical for him to say there won't be charges.
Its illogical if he doesnt know what evidence they have
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How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges when he admits he dosnt know what evidence the Police have
How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges
Because he is a lawyer and knows the law....he knows the case is weak.
Something you don't ......mind you doubt your opinion does any harm,
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Its illogical if he doesnt know what evidence they have
It's not illogical at all. If you don't have enough evidence to charge it can't be compelling, ie. the entirety of the evidence is not enough. The Judge said this too, it's can't be 'compelling evidence', is that being illogical or does he know German law?
Any lawyer, policeman, judge or layperson can make the same deduction and it would be correct imo.
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How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges
Because he is a lawyer and knows the law....he knows the case is weak.
Something you don't ......mind you doubt your opinion does any harm,
He doesnt know what evidence the police have. I dont know how strong the case is because I dont know what evidence they have. You are simply speculating ...again
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It's not illogical at all. If you don't have enough evidence to charge it can't be compelling, ie. the entirety of the evidence is not enough. The Judge said this too, it's can't be 'compelling evidence', is that being illogical or does he know German law?
Any lawyer, policeman, judge or layperson can make the same deduction and it would be correct imo.
He doesnt know what evidence the police have.
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He doesnt know what evidence the police have. I dont know how strong the case is because I dont know what evidence they have. You are simply speculating ...again
How nieve really D ....dont you think they talk off the cuff or having a pint....they are all in the same pool
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He doesnt know what evidence the police have.
It's all hearsay. If the Germans had anything of substance, that knowledge would have been transmitted to the parents and SY but clearly they haven't even got enough to get to the first base. How terribly embarrassing for them.
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It's all hearsay. If that had anything of substance, that knowledge would have been transmitted to the parents and SY but clearly they haven't even got enough to get to the first base. How terribly embarrassing for them.
Do you realise what you are saying is merely your opinion
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How nieve really D ....dont you think they talk off the cuff or having a pint....they are all in the same pool
More speculation
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How can the lawyer think there will be no chareges when he admits he dosnt know what evidence the Police have
He's not stupid. He knows that the police are bluffing and haven't got anything. @)(++(*
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Do you realise what you are saying is merely your opinion
And I am usually right. I said from the start this the Germans wouldn't find anything on him.
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He's not stupid. He knows that the police are bluffing and haven't got anything. @)(++(*
More opinion...lets see how he gets on with his current appeal...
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And I am usually right. I said from the start this the Germans wouldn't find anything on him.
more opinion....I dont see you as being usually right.
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i think its illogical of the lawyer to state that he thinks thewre wont be any charges and at the same time say he doesnt know w hat evidence the police have. We also have the fact again this is a newsaper report and may not be accurate
What evidence are you aware of Dave that isn’t out of a newspaper or similar media?
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It may suggest there is more evidence stacked up against you, imo.
Or maybe you’re more likely to be a little bit more cleared if you’ve been thoroughly grilled by the police and no charges brought.
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And I am usually right. I said from the start this the Germans wouldn't find anything on him.
I think most of us did.
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I think most of us did.
NO they didn't!!! Such pessimism... Sheesh!
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NO they didn't!!! Such pessimism... Sheesh!
Apologies....most of the right-minded amongst us knew.
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Apologies....most of the right-minded amongst us knew.
Left-minded you mean!
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What evidence are you aware of Dave that isn’t out of a newspaper or similar media?
Have you not listened to HCW live...He has said they have concrete , strong evidence that CB murdered Maddie.
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Have you not listened to HCW live...He has said they have concrete , strong evidence that CB murdered Maddie.
Of course he does Dave - that's why they're also saying that they don't have enough evidence to arrest him... never mind charge him!
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If the concrete murder evidence isn't enough to charge him with murder then perhaps they could still charge him with abduction, using all the concrete abduction evidence they ha..... oh, no wait, that's right.
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best not drive under the bridges on the autobahns, if their concrete is like their concrete evidence.
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Of course he does Dave - that's why they're also saying that they don't have enough evidence to arrest him... never mind charge him!
could you provide a cite for ...not enough evidence to arrest him...
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Left-minded you mean!
If I had meant that I’d have said it.
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could you provide a cite for ...not enough evidence to arrest him...
Has he been arrested?
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All these sceptics positively gloating in the fact that HCW hasn’t been charged yet is quite a sight to see. Of course, if charges are ever brought the faux outrage about supporters supposedly revelling in Madeleine’s appalling ordeal will be equally tortuous.
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All these sceptics positively gloating in the fact that HCW hasn’t been charged yet is quite a sight to see. Of course, if charges are ever brought the faux outrage about supporters supposedly revelling in Madeleine’s appalling ordeal will be equally tortuous.
Tune in next year, the concrete might have set by then.
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All these sceptics positively gloating in the fact that HCW hasn’t been charged yet is quite a sight to see. Of course, if charges are ever brought the faux outrage about supporters supposedly revelling in Madeleine’s appalling ordeal will be equally tortuous.
I said he was not involved in Madeleine's disappearance from the start and that will never change. The latest searches are a step in the right direction because Madeleine was hidden extremely well.
"There’s been a lot of emotion in the last 10 days." 9 June 2007
Not since 3 May 2007? How interesting!
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Tune in next year, the concrete might have set by then.
I sincerely hope so.
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All these sceptics positively gloating in the fact that HCW hasn’t been charged yet is quite a sight to see. Of course, if charges are ever brought the faux outrage about supporters supposedly revelling in Madeleine’s appalling ordeal will be equally tortuous.
In today’s news it is said they are hopeful to charge him in the next two months.
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In today’s news it is said they are hopeful to charge him in the next two months.
We shall see. It would be a good idea IMO if everyone just shut up about it until charges are actually brought.
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In today’s news it is said they are hopeful to charge him in the next two months.
Very kind of them to give him an advance warning so he can get his contacts on the outside to destroy any evidence.
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We shall see. It would be a good idea IMO if everyone just shut up about it until charges are actually brought.
What if they're not?
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All these sceptics positively gloating in the fact that HCW hasn’t been charged yet is quite a sight to see. Of course, if charges are ever brought the faux outrage about supporters supposedly revelling in Madeleine’s appalling ordeal will be equally tortuous.
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Very kind of them to give him an advance warning so he can get his contacts on the outside to destroy any evidence.
I thought he has done that already? Now, prosecutors have people coming forward which I believe is significant.
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Herr Micawber is ever hopeful 8(0(*
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What if they're not?
Then they’re not.
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could you provide a cite for ...not enough evidence to arrest him...
From Mr Wolters reportedly:
"Mr Wolters told Sky News last night that prosecutors were missing "hard evidence" needed for the suspect to go on trial.
He said: "All indications we have got that I can't tell you points in the direction that Madeleine is dead.
"The hard evidence we don’t have, we don’t have the crucial evidence of Madeleine McCann’s body.
"We expect that she is dead, but we don’t have enough evidence that we can get a warrant for our suspect in Germany for the murder of Madeleine McCann."
He added: “At the moment we also don’t have enough proof for a trial at court, but we have some evidence that the suspect has done the deed. "
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From Mr Wolters reportedly:
"Mr Wolters told Sky News last night that prosecutors were missing "hard evidence" needed for the suspect to go on trial.
He said: "All indications we have got that I can't tell you points in the direction that Madeleine is dead.
"The hard evidence we don’t have, we don’t have the crucial evidence of Madeleine McCann’s body.
"We expect that she is dead, but we don’t have enough evidence that we can get a warrant for our suspect in Germany for the murder of Madeleine McCann."
He added: “At the moment we also don’t have enough proof for a trial at court, but we have some evidence that the suspect has done the deed. "
That was from 8/9 June, clearly with the passage of time the concrete has been a poor mix and needs discarding.
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From Mr Wolters reportedly:
"Mr Wolters told Sky News last night that prosecutors were missing "hard evidence" needed for the suspect to go on trial.
He said: "All indications we have got that I can't tell you points in the direction that Madeleine is dead.
"The hard evidence we don’t have, we don’t have the crucial evidence of Madeleine McCann’s body.
"We expect that she is dead, but we don’t have enough evidence that we can get a warrant for our suspect in Germany for the murder of Madeleine McCann."
He added: “At the moment we also don’t have enough proof for a trial at court, but we have some evidence that the suspect has done the deed. "
so where does Wolters mention arrest?...he doesn't
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so where does Wolters mention arrest?...he doesn't
Stop being a pedant, what do you think "warrant" means?
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Stop being a pedant, what do you think "warrant" means?
If posters stop being sloppy I wouldn't have to keep pointing out their errors. ...best not encourage it.
No warrant needed for an arrest in the UK...I can't see Germany being any different..looks like you're poorly informed too
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If posters stop being sloppy I wouldn't have to keep pointing out their errors. ...best not encourage it.
No warrant needed for an arrest in the UK...I can't see Germany being any different..looks like you're poorly informed too
On what basis do you say "I can't see Germany being any different"?
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On what basis do you say "I can't see Germany being any different"?
there are certain basic principles of law that are common throughout developed countries...miranda rights...arguido...interview under caution...and more. Do you have any information otherwise...I'm sure the answers no.
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there are certain basic principles of law that are common throughout developed countries...miranda rights...arguido...interview under caution...and more. Do you have any information otherwise...I'm sure the answers no.
So you were relying on guesswork, not on knowledge. OK, thanks.
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So you were relying on guesswork, not on knowledge. OK, thanks.
No..I'm relying on knowledge. Please don't argue for argument sake
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No..I'm relying on knowledge. Please don't argue for argument sake
I'm not arguing with you, I'm pointing out that if you have knowledge there's a source. If you don't have a source it's opinion.
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No..I'm relying on knowledge. Please don't argue for argument sake
So what is the “warrant” that Wolters is referring to Dave. Please share your knowledge. Thank you.
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So what is the “warrant” that Wolters is referring to Dave. Please share your knowledge. Thank you.
Probably another mistranslation of The German Language.
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Probably another mistranslation of The German Language.
Quite, the suspect may only mean person of interest, I agree he should be ruled out, there doesn't seem much to rule him in, what is it now,6/7/8 weeks after he became known.
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Quite, the suspect may only mean person of interest, I agree he should be ruled out, there doesn't seem much to rule him in, what is it now,6/7/8 weeks after he became known.
I wouldn't go that far. This already a horrible man who needs locking up.
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I wouldn't go that far. This already a horrible man who needs locking up.
He is locked up.
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He is locked up.
For a very long time, I meant, as well you know.
How The German Police go about this is fine by me.
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For a very long time, I meant, as well you know.
How The German Police go about this is fine by me.
The system only allows people to be locked up for the crime they are convicted of, not because they are ' a bad lot'
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The system only allows people to be locked up for the crime they are convicted of, not because they are ' a bad lot'
I think sentencing is influenced by previous
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The system only allows people to be locked up for the crime they are convicted of, not because they are ' a bad lot'
Breukner is their bad egg. And if you think he is just a bad lot then you have a problem.
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I think sentencing is influenced by previous
I don't know. But I blimmin well hope so.
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Breukner is their bad egg. And if you think he is just a bad lot then you have a problem.
I was using it as a figure of speech, but if you look at his convictions he has never served very long for any of them, other than this pending rape one.
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I don't know. But I blimmin well hope so.
Judges still have to work withing the tariff for the crime
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I was using it as a figure of speech, but if you look at his convictions he has never served very long for any of them, other than this pending rape one.
And even that is a bit of a joke. Seven Years for violently Raping and Torturing an old woman.
No wonder Germany needs to get it's act together.
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Judges still have to work withing the tariff for the crime
A bit like Portugal, you mean.
Someone needs to rethink The Tariff.
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A bit like Portugal, you mean.
Someone needs to rethink The Tariff.
There are plenty of the 'flog 'em & Hang 'em brigade in UK who think our tarriffs too lenient as well.
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A bit like Portugal, you mean.
Someone needs to rethink The Tariff.
At least they made the effort which is more than can be said for the Portuguese in the case of the similar rape carried out on the younger Irish woman and by the looks of it in the older woman's case as well.
Why does Portuguese officialdom apparently think it is preferable to play down outrages of this type rather than deal with them as they should to 'protect' the tourist trade.
Visitors from Britain and Ireland will go to enjoy Portugal whatever at the moment ... but if they think their safety is compromised I think that may do longer term damage to the tourist trade than grasping the bull by the horns and sorting it.
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There are plenty of the 'flog 'em & Hang 'em brigade in UK who think our tarriffs too lenient as well.
I don't want to flog or hang anyone. But neither do I want to be sexually abused. God knows what France would do about this. But I doubt it would be just seven years.
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At least they made the effort which is more than can be said for the Portuguese in the case of the similar rape carried out on the younger Irish woman and by the looks of it in the older woman's case as well.
Why does Portuguese officialdom apparently think it is preferable to play down outrages of this type rather than deal with them as they should to 'protect' the tourist trade.
Visitors from Britain and Ireland will go to enjoy Portugal whatever at the moment ... but if they think their safety is compromised I think that may do longer term damage to the tourist trade than grasping the bull by the horns and sorting it.
No old woman in her right mind would want to go to Portugal at the moment.
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A bit like Portugal, you mean.
Someone needs to rethink The Tariff.
Most rapists don’t even see a court in the UK.
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Most rapists don’t even see a court in the UK.
Most old women don't get tied to a post and beaten.
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Most old women don't get tied to a post and beaten.
No. Thank god, and not in Portugal either.
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No. Thank god, and not in Portugal either.
But so she was. In Portugal. By Brueckner. Or have you not been paying attention?
God preserve me from those who don't want to know.
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No. Thank god, and not in Portugal either.
I am incredulous that you have posted that given the terrifying and life changing ordeal that Brueckner put that woman through.
He didn't beat her with any old common or garden strip of metal ... I believe he used a sharp killing instrument ... as well as the pain of her torture there must have been the mental anguish that was how she was going to die at the hands of a sadistic torturer and rapist.
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I am incredulous that you have posted that given the terrifying and life changing ordeal that Brueckner put that woman through.
He didn't beat her with any old common or garden strip of metal ... I believe he used a sharp killing instrument ... as well as the pain of her torture there must have been the mental anguish that was how she was going to die at the hands of a sadistic torturer and rapist.
You can't help some people because they don't want to know if the mere idea offends them. Hence it never happened.
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At least they made the effort which is more than can be said for the Portuguese in the case of the similar rape carried out on the younger Irish woman and by the looks of it in the older woman's case as well.
Why does Portuguese officialdom apparently think it is preferable to play down outrages of this type rather than deal with them as they should to 'protect' the tourist trade.
Visitors from Britain and Ireland will go to enjoy Portugal whatever at the moment ... but if they think their safety is compromised I think that may do longer term damage to the tourist trade than grasping the bull by the horns and sorting it.
1 in 70 reported rapes lead to charges in the U.K. Why any female tourists come here with rape statistics like that baffles me.
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You can't help some people because they don't want to know if the mere idea offends them. Hence it never happened.
Nobody is denying it happened but using this horrific rape to push an agenda while ignoring the terrible rape statistics here is what most people find offensive I think.
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Nobody is denying it happened but using this horrific rape to push an agenda while ignoring the terrible rape statistics here is what most people find offensive I think.
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No one here is doing that . I don't know how the rape statistics vary between here and portugal and Im sure you don't either.
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No one here is doing that . I don't know how the rape statistics vary between here and portugal and Im sure you don't either.
I haven’t pretended that I know....but ‘people in glass houses’ etc etc.
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I haven’t pretended that I know....but ‘people in glass houses’ etc etc.
More baseless accusations...one thing you are good at. For some reason some posters seem to want to make excuses for CB.
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More baseless accusations...one thing you are good at. For some reason some posters seem to want to make excuses for CB.
Not sure what you mean about baseless accusations but when we have such terrible statistics in the UK in relation to rape we really shouldn’t be scoffing at the way Portugal handle this awful crime.
As to Brueckner no one, as far as I can see, is making excuses for him. I think everyone thinks he is a despicable human being but a miscarriage of justice serves no one, especially not Madeleine’s parents.
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Not sure what you mean about baseless accusations but when we have such terrible statistics in the UK in relation to rape we really shouldn’t be scoffing at the way Portugal handle this awful crime.
As to Brueckner no one, as far as I can see, is making excuses for him. I think everyone thinks he is a despicable human being but a miscarriage of justice serves no one, especially not Madeleine’s parents.
how do the UK statistics compare to portugal...you dont know....I do know taht a violent portugese rapsit got a suspended sentence,..you dont really condone taht do you
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how do the UK statistics compare to portugal...you dont know....I do know taht a violent portugese rapsit got a suspended sentence,..you dont really condone taht do you
Of course not...it’s an absolute travesty of justice. Who was the rapist ?
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More baseless accusations...one thing you are good at. For some reason some posters seem to want to make excuses for CB.
Davel, you know that isn't true! No one on this forum is making excuses for CB, Every post mentioning him is filled with disgust directed at him.
Unless you want to name names...
There are people who are questioning the reality of CB being the one who abducted /killed Madeleine. and it is a debate- none are 100% correct because he has not been charged regardless of what weighted circumstantial evidence there is.
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British shoes being worn in a foreign country? It's even possible to buy British shoes in foreign countries in the 21st Century! Even in Portugal!
https://www.spartoo.pt/Start-Rite-b783.php?marque=783&type=1&track_id=adwo&ggnetwork=g&ggcreative=406954238099&ggkeyword=%2Bstart%20%2Brite&ggmatchtype=b&ggsource=s&mkwid=aIbXYTu4_dc&plid=&ggcamp=95254304&ggproduct_partition_id=&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbtxcv6EoXX9Nmh6XetiHctgmvGwoYbD04Bv1yVNFRbAMq-7ONMshWLBoCCNIQAvD_BwE#rst
Exactly … and they could be bought in the Country where I believe I saw Madeleine dancing. But at over 70 euros a pair for a child, who is going to buy them ?
I would suggest that it might be a very rich person (an elite) or a person of British connection who is also very well off. Both descriptions match my elite suspect
I can only remember having Startrites fitted once when I was a child, and my guess is that it was after my older sister had to have treatment for crooked toes and bunions. Mum and Dad weren't going to make the same mistake twice.
I only once was able to afford to have my children fully fitted for Startrights, but like my Mum and Dad with me, I took the next best option for my children of semi fitted Clarks. Both children had good feet.
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Trouble is they're made in Portugal or India, not Britain since 2003... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-rite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-rite)
The country where ?Madeleine was wearing them was neither Portugal, nor India, but I take your point.
The same comments about who would buy them stand as in the post above
At 70 Euros a pair for childrens shoes then it would be mega rich elites, or rich people with a British connection who would buy them.
My suspect fits both those criteria.
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Exactly … and they could be bought in the Country where I believe I saw Madeleine dancing. But at over 70 euros a pair for a child, who is going to buy them ?
I would suggest that it might be a very rich person (an elite) or a person of British connection who is also very well off. Both descriptions match my elite suspect
I can only remember having Startrites fitted once when I was a child, and my guess is that it was after my older sister had to have treatment for crooked toes and bunions. Mum and Dad weren't going to make the same mistake twice.
I only once was able to afford to have my children fully fitted for Startrights, but like my Mum and Dad with me, I took the next best option for my children of semi fitted Clarks. Both children had good feet.
No one has to buy them, charities receive and donate items like Startrites all the time. Children outgrow shoes very fast and by the time the shoes are donated they are usually still in a good condition.
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I am incredulous that you have posted that given the terrifying and life changing ordeal that Brueckner put that woman through.
He didn't beat her with any old common or garden strip of metal ... I believe he used a sharp killing instrument ... as well as the pain of her torture there must have been the mental anguish that was how she was going to die at the hands of a sadistic torturer and rapist.
What on earth are you talking about? When have I defended anything that CB did to the woman he raped? The point I was making is that it isn't just in Portugal that rapists are not given the punishment they deserve. I said most rapists in the UK don't even go to court. That's a fact, but in no way does it defend that rapist monster.
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What on earth are you talking about? When have I defended anything that CB did to the woman he raped? The point I was making is that it isn't just in Portugal that rapists are not given the punishment they deserve. I said most rapists in the UK don't even go to court. That's a fact, but in no way does it defend that rapist monster.
There are complex issues behind the present situation regarding rape cases in England and Wales.
But I could almost guarantee that should an elderly woman be treated to the prolonged torture,humiliation,terror and abuse suffered by Brueghner's rape victim that charges would be brought.
Particularly since he left forensics behind him which led to his conviction for the outrage in Germany.
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There are complex issues behind the present situation regarding rape cases in England and Wales.
But I could almost guarantee that should an elderly woman be treated to the prolonged torture,humiliation,terror and abuse suffered by Brueghner's rape victim that charges would be brought.
Particularly since he left forensics behind him which led to his conviction for the outrage in Germany.
Please explain what complex issues are present in UK rape cases that do not exist in other country’s cases ?
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No one has to buy them, charities receive and donate items like Startrites all the time. Children outgrow shoes very fast and by the time the shoes are donated they are usually still in a good condition.
Oh really !
Sounds rather like clutching at straws to me
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There are complex issues behind the present situation regarding rape cases in England and Wales.
But I could almost guarantee that should an elderly woman be treated to the prolonged torture,humiliation,terror and abuse suffered by Brueghner's rape victim that charges would be brought.
Particularly since he left forensics behind him which led to his conviction for the outrage in Germany.
Didn't Amaral hint that the crime wasn't reported?
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Didn't Amaral hint that the crime wasn't reported?
So why was it Investigated? And by whom, I wonder?
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So why was it Investigated? And by whom, I wonder?
Someone definitely went to the bother of carrying out a forensic sweep at the crime scene from where Brueckner's DNA was recovered.
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Someone definitely went to the bother of carrying out a forensic sweep at the crime scene from where Brueckner's DNA was recovered.
so it had to have been reported....more misinformation from amaral
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so it had to have been reported....more misinformation from amaral
And G-Unit isn't helping as it is obvious that it was reported. And at least the poor woman would have needed hospital treatment. No? Or perhaps they thought she hurt herself. A bit like that Australian woman who hit herself over the head with an axe four times.
One tends to forget the absolute horror of some of it because there was so much. I will never be the same wimp I once was.
Such a pity. I did so like Portugal.
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And G-Unit isn't helping as it is obvious that it was reported. And at least the poor woman would have needed hospital treatment. No? Or perhaps they thought she hurt herself. A bit like that Australian woman who hit herself over the head with an axe four times.
One tends to forget the absolute horror of some of it because there was so much. I will never be the same wimp I once was.
Such a pity. I did so like Portugal.
Sandra Felgueiras showed file photographs which I think must have been taken taken for evidence showing the bruises on the woman's body. Therefore someone gathered enough evidence to support bringing a case.
The wonder for me is that the Germans raised the case against him ... not the Portuguese.
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Sandra Felgueiras showed file photographs which I think must have been taken taken for evidence showing the bruises on the woman's body. Therefore someone gathered enough evidence to support bringing a case.
The wonder for me is that the Germans raised the case against him ... not the Portuguese.
The Portuguese weren't interested and The Germans had him.
I am not sure of the legal implications regarding The Extradition Warrant, but No One Else was doing anything. Portugal, Italy and then back to Germany. Who on earth was supposed to deal with this man? And at least The Germans are trying to do something about one of their own.
I am tired of blaming Portugal. It is always the same old same old. Portugal was utter useless and we all know that.
Whether or not Portugal had an agenda is probably a point for discussion, but I am not sure if I would Approve a Thread on that if someone else started it, so I can hardly start a Thread myself.
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I wonder if it's possible that the Portuguese justice system is racist / xenophobic or is it just generally useless? It does seem not to be all that interested in investigating crimes against foreign nationals....
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I wonder if it's possible that the Portuguese justice system is racist / xenophobic or is it just generally useless? It does seem not to be all that interested in investigating crimes against foreign nationals....
Or Women.
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Or Women.
Racist and sexist?? Surely not.
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Racist and sexist?? Surely not.
It looks like it to me. And it is so much more easy to beat up a woman, Don't you think.
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The Portuguese weren't interested and The Germans had him.
I am not sure of the legal implications regarding The Extradition Warrant, but No One Else was doing anything. Portugal, Italy and then back to Germany. Who on earth was supposed to deal with this man? And at least The Germans are trying to do something about one of their own.
I am tired of blaming Portugal. It is always the same old same old. Portugal was utter useless and we all know that.
Whether or not Portugal had an agenda is probably a point for discussion, but I am not sure if I would Approve a Thread on that if someone else started it, so I can hardly start a Thread myself.
I think the enormity of events overtook them.
Just because someone chooses to live a solitary life in a campervan doesn't make them a paedophile. Yet the one thing I have learned from Madeleine's case is that quite a few ex-pats of all nationalities actually were and had convictions at home to prove it.
I have no idea what the Portuguese could lawfully have done to address this problem ... and I think it is a problem, but I don't think ignoring it makes it go away.
When Madeleine went missing in close proximity to where Joana disappeared from these guys, particularly those actually living in Luz however transient should have been hauled in and given such a grilling they would have voluntarily moved on and given someone else the problem.
They were known and the sickening thing in light of current development is that Brueckner was known.
So why on earth did two investigations into missing children carried out by and large by the same investigation team, almost immediately settle on the girls' mothers without exhaustively checking out known paedophiles living in their midst ...
They moved heaven and earth sparing no efforts in pursuit of these women without a shred of evidence as back up and incidentally wrote best sellers about both cases ... in the meantime it seems guys like Brueckner had their keep out of jail card safely stowed away in their Winnebagos or equivalent.
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Oh really !
Sounds rather like clutching at straws to me
Yes really. I’ve volunteered in enough charity shops to be able to speak with authority.
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It looks like it to me. And it is so much more easy to beat up a woman, Don't you think.
Have you ever been down the Cannongate on a Saturday night ?
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Have you ever been down the Cannongate on a Saturday night ?
I have no idea of where The Cannongate is. Is it in London? If so then thank God I got out when I did.
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I have no idea of where The Cannongate is. Is it in London? If so then thank God I got out when I did.
It’s in Glasgow.
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It’s in Glasgow.
I never went anywhere on a Saturday night in Glasgow. Unless I was working on the buses. In which case my Driver looked after me. Not that there was ever any need. Everyone was lovely to me.
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I never went anywhere on a Saturday night in Glasgow. Unless I was working on the buses. In which case my Driver looked after me. Not that there was ever any need. Everyone was lovely to me.
I don't think you would have found a Canongate in Glasgow, Eleanor.
There is a very famous area in Ediburgh called the Canongate but on the west coast we couldn't afford Cannons but they obviously needed Gallows in Glasgow to keep us down instead.
In the East end of Glasgow there is the Gallowgate ... I've always felt comfortable there but although quite a run down area in its day, I think you would have enjoyed it too.
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I don't think you would have found a Canongate in Glasgow, Eleanor.
There is a very famous area in Ediburgh called the Canongate but on the west coast we couldn't afford Cannons but they obviously needed Gallows in Glasgow to keep us down instead.
In the East end of Glasgow there is the Gallowgate ... I've always felt comfortable there but although quite a run down area in its day, I think you would have enjoyed it too.
My passion for Glasgow remains to this day.
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I wonder if it's possible that the Portuguese justice system is racist / xenophobic or is it just generally useless? It does seem not to be all that interested in investigating crimes against foreign nationals....
And more, I wonder. Could they be protecting some people? One has to wonder.
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Yes really. I’ve volunteered in enough charity shops to be able to speak with authority.
So in a foreign country, just how many new pairs of Startright childrens sandals would there be to begin with. Who would have been the original purchasers? Elites, rich Brits ?
Come on Faith. Why are you so very keen that the sandals on my little girl ?Madeleine? were second hand? Hiding the Elites? Bring them on, I say.
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So in a foreign country, just how many new pairs of Startright childrens sandals would there be to begin with. Who would have been the original purchasers? Elites, rich Brits ?
Come on Faith. Why are you so very keen that the sandals on my little girl ?Madeleine? were second hand? Hiding the Elites? Bring them on, I say.
Do you really think startrites are only bought, and donated, by really rich people ? Really ?
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I don't think you would have found a Canongate in Glasgow, Eleanor.
There is a very famous area in Ediburgh called the Canongate but on the west coast we couldn't afford Cannons but they obviously needed Gallows in Glasgow to keep us down instead.
In the East end of Glasgow there is the Gallowgate ... I've always felt comfortable there but although quite a run down area in its day, I think you would have enjoyed it too.
Ah so you do read my posts.... @)(++(*
Just don’t have the answers to the questions asked.
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Portuguese police 'have only 22 more months to make their case against prime suspect Christian Brueckner' for the kidnap and murder of three-year-old Madeleine McCann before 15-year limit for prosecutions runs out
- Rogerio Alves said police have only 22 months left to arrest Christian Brueckner
- Said investigation 'still on time' even with 15-year prosecution limit in Portugal
- Madeleine went missing in 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz
By JEMMA CARR FOR MAILONLINE
Portuguese police have less than two years to make their case against Christian Brueckner for the kidnap and murder of three-year-old Madeleine McCann, her family's lawyer said.
Rogerio Alves said police have only 22 more months and 'time is getting short now' because of a 15-year statute of limitations for prosecutions in Portugal.
Speaking on McCann: The Hunt for the Prime Suspect on ITV, Alves said: 'We have a 15 years time barrier, even to manslaughter, to homicide, to certain sexual offences — and even to the most serious kind of kidnapping.
'So we are still on time. But time is getting short now.'
The show - set to air at 9pm on Thursday - also addresses the mistakes police made which potentially stopped Brueckner from being a known suspect earlier on.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8547087/Portuguese-police-22-months-make-case-against-Christian-Brueckner.html
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Portuguese police 'have only 22 more months to make their case against prime suspect Christian Brueckner' for the kidnap and murder of three-year-old Madeleine McCann before 15-year limit for prosecutions runs out- Rogerio Alves said police have only 22 months left to arrest Christian Brueckner
- Said investigation 'still on time' even with 15-year prosecution limit in Portugal
- Madeleine went missing in 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz
By JEMMA CARR FOR MAILONLINE
Portuguese police have less than two years to make their case against Christian Brueckner for the kidnap and murder of three-year-old Madeleine McCann, her family's lawyer said.
Rogerio Alves said police have only 22 more months and 'time is getting short now' because of a 15-year statute of limitations for prosecutions in Portugal.
Speaking on McCann: The Hunt for the Prime Suspect on ITV, Alves said: 'We have a 15 years time barrier, even to manslaughter, to homicide, to certain sexual offences — and even to the most serious kind of kidnapping.
'So we are still on time. But time is getting short now.'
The show - set to air at 9pm on Thursday - also addresses the mistakes police made which potentially stopped Brueckner from being a known suspect earlier on.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8547087/Portuguese-police-22-months-make-case-against-Christian-Brueckner.html
I do not believe it. Well, I do. So there's another bit of Portuguese Law that I really didn't want to know.
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I do not believe it. Well, I do. So there's another bit of Portuguese Law that I really didn't want to know.
It seems that without the Germans and their initiative renewing active interest in Madeleine's case - all any perpetrator had to do was play a waiting game.
Then s/he could have written yet another pejorative book bemoaning about being hounded by the McCanns for fifteen years ... sure to be a best seller.
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I do not believe it. Well, I do. So there's another bit of Portuguese Law that I really didn't want to know.
I thought the parents didn’t have a lawyer ?
Curiouser and curiouser.
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I do not believe it. Well, I do. So there's another bit of Portuguese Law that I really didn't want to know.
Why so surprised?
Many countries have a statute of limitation for various crimes.
Presumably this will apply not just to Brueckner, but anyone else who had any hand in this disappearance.
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Why so surprised?
Many countries have a statute of limitation for various crimes.
Presumably this will apply not just to Brueckner, but anyone else who had any hand in this disappearance.
here in australia if you are missing for 7 years you are considered legally dead by law
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Has Portugal expressed an interest in prosecuting this suspect? The Germans seem happy to deal with him.
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Police in Portugal reopen rape investigation after claim against Madeleine McCann suspect
Hazel Behan thinks her attacker may have been Christian B, the main suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Martin Brunt
Crime correspondent @skymartinbrunt
Portuguese police have reopened their investigation into the unsolved rape of an Irish woman after 16 years.
Hazel Behan, 37, believes her attacker may have been drifter Christian B, the main suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
He was convicted of a similar rape a year after Ms Behan was attacked and two years before Madeleine vanished.
This week detectives collected their own archived case files from the court in Portimao to see if they could build a case against the suspect.
One problem they will face is that vital forensic evidence with potential DNA was destroyed on the orders of a judge, a common practice in Portuguese cases where no suspect is identified.
A source told Sky News: "Detectives are looking again for new evidence and the investigation is reopened."
Ms Behan was a 20-year-old holiday rep who arrived in Praia da Rocha on the Algarve coast in April 2004.
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629
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Why so surprised?
Many countries have a statute of limitation for various crimes.
Presumably this will apply not just to Brueckner, but anyone else who had any hand in this disappearance.
No S of L in this country for murder.
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No S of L in this country for murder.
Would the murder then have had to occur in the UK?
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Would the murder then have had to occur in the UK?
I believe that in certain circumstances a UK prosecution can be brought, even for crime committed in another country
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Would the murder then have had to occur in the UK?
Good question Rob, we know the offences against the persons act section 9 as regards to crimes a brit does abroad abroad,whether any limitations are impose it doesn't say,Id venture it doesn't.
Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, . . . F1, may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished . . . F1 in England or Ireland . . . F1: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.
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Good question Rob, we know the offences against the persons act section 9 as regards to crimes a brit does abroad abroad,whether any limitations are impose it doesn't say,Id venture it doesn't.
Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, . . . F1, may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished . . . F1 in England or Ireland . . . F1: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.
the trial would be under Uk law ...not portuguese law
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Good question Rob, we know the offences against the persons act section 9 as regards to crimes a brit does abroad abroad,whether any limitations are impose it doesn't say,Id venture it doesn't.
Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, . . . F1, may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished . . . F1 in England or Ireland . . . F1: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.
Which suggests that if said crime is committed by a foreign national, then this wouldn't apply.
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Which suggests that if said crime is committed by a foreign national, then this wouldn't apply.
Yes,its down the Germans or the Portuguese to try this particular suspect ,not that its going to happen.
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Which suggests that if said crime is committed by a foreign national, then this wouldn't apply.
I dont think anyone is suggesting Breukner would be tried in the UK......but Germany yes.
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Following on from the Sky News report ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg611101#msg611101 it seems that the Portuguese are at long last reopening yet another case which, like Madeleine's, should never have been closed or 'archived' in the first instance.
All of this was bubbling away in the background including the assaults on children under their holiday roofs while the Judicial Police were loudly building their case on sand totally directed at Kate and Gerry McCann.
'Snip'
Two months later, a masked man climbed the balcony to her apartment and attacked her as she slept in the early hours.
He held a knife to her throat, tied her up and gagged her, then raped her repeatedly.
During the attack he threatened to kill her and left her bleeding before fleeing over the balcony.
Last month, when German drifter Christian B was named as the main suspect in the Madeleine case - and Ms Behan read about his conviction for raping an American woman in strikingly similar circumstances - she contacted the Scotland Yard Madeleine squad.
She told the Guardian newspaper: "My mind was blown when I read how he had attacked a woman in 2005, both the tactics and the methods he used, the tools he had with him, how well he had planned it out.
"I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience."
Scotland Yard detectives interviewed Ms Behan and later told her they had contacted Portuguese police. It appears that has prompted the reopening of her case.
She has said she was badly treated by the Portuguese detectives, who abandoned their investigation after eight months without identifying a suspect.
Ms Behan described her attacker as white, slim, with blonde hair, blue eyes and possibly German.
According to the case files, detectives were unable to find anyone in their records who matched the description, but that was wrong.
In another Portuguese police file seen by Sky News, there are photographs of a young Christian B who does fit the description.
They were taken by police in 1999, five years before Ms Behan was raped, after he was arrested and deported to Germany for child sex crimes.
If police do find evidence against Christian B for Ms Behan's attack it is unlikely he would be charged as Portugal has a 15-year statute of limitations on rape investigations.
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629
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Bloody incompetents. IMO.
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Following on from the Sky News report ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg611101#msg611101 it seems that the Portuguese are at long last reopening yet another case which, like Madeleine's, should never have been closed or 'archived' in the first instance.
All of this was bubbling away in the background including the assaults on children under their holiday roofs while the Judicial Police were loudly building their case on sand totally directed at Kate and Gerry McCann.
'Snip'
Two months later, a masked man climbed the balcony to her apartment and attacked her as she slept in the early hours.
He held a knife to her throat, tied her up and gagged her, then raped her repeatedly.
During the attack he threatened to kill her and left her bleeding before fleeing over the balcony.
Last month, when German drifter Christian B was named as the main suspect in the Madeleine case - and Ms Behan read about his conviction for raping an American woman in strikingly similar circumstances - she contacted the Scotland Yard Madeleine squad.
She told the Guardian newspaper: "My mind was blown when I read how he had attacked a woman in 2005, both the tactics and the methods he used, the tools he had with him, how well he had planned it out.
"I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience."
Scotland Yard detectives interviewed Ms Behan and later told her they had contacted Portuguese police. It appears that has prompted the reopening of her case.
She has said she was badly treated by the Portuguese detectives, who abandoned their investigation after eight months without identifying a suspect.
Ms Behan described her attacker as white, slim, with blonde hair, blue eyes and possibly German.
According to the case files, detectives were unable to find anyone in their records who matched the description, but that was wrong.
In another Portuguese police file seen by Sky News, there are photographs of a young Christian B who does fit the description.
They were taken by police in 1999, five years before Ms Behan was raped, after he was arrested and deported to Germany for child sex crimes.
If police do find evidence against Christian B for Ms Behan's attack it is unlikely he would be charged as Portugal has a 15-year statute of limitations on rape investigations.
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629
looks like it could be 20 yrs in germany
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Following on from the Sky News report ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg611101#msg611101 it seems that the Portuguese are at long last reopening yet another case which, like Madeleine's, should never have been closed or 'archived' in the first instance.
All of this was bubbling away in the background including the assaults on children under their holiday roofs while the Judicial Police were loudly building their case on sand totally directed at Kate and Gerry McCann.
'Snip'
Two months later, a masked man climbed the balcony to her apartment and attacked her as she slept in the early hours.
He held a knife to her throat, tied her up and gagged her, then raped her repeatedly.
During the attack he threatened to kill her and left her bleeding before fleeing over the balcony.
Last month, when German drifter Christian B was named as the main suspect in the Madeleine case - and Ms Behan read about his conviction for raping an American woman in strikingly similar circumstances - she contacted the Scotland Yard Madeleine squad.
She told the Guardian newspaper: "My mind was blown when I read how he had attacked a woman in 2005, both the tactics and the methods he used, the tools he had with him, how well he had planned it out.
"I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience."
Scotland Yard detectives interviewed Ms Behan and later told her they had contacted Portuguese police. It appears that has prompted the reopening of her case.
She has said she was badly treated by the Portuguese detectives, who abandoned their investigation after eight months without identifying a suspect.
Ms Behan described her attacker as white, slim, with blonde hair, blue eyes and possibly German.
According to the case files, detectives were unable to find anyone in their records who matched the description, but that was wrong.
In another Portuguese police file seen by Sky News, there are photographs of a young Christian B who does fit the description.
They were taken by police in 1999, five years before Ms Behan was raped, after he was arrested and deported to Germany for child sex crimes.
If police do find evidence against Christian B for Ms Behan's attack it is unlikely he would be charged as Portugal has a 15-year statute of limitations on rape investigations.
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629
I suppose that might explain why it was the Germans who prosecuted Brueckner for the rape of the American woman.
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Following on from the Sky News report ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg611101#msg611101 it seems that the Portuguese are at long last reopening yet another case which, like Madeleine's, should never have been closed or 'archived' in the first instance.
All of this was bubbling away in the background including the assaults on children under their holiday roofs while the Judicial Police were loudly building their case on sand totally directed at Kate and Gerry McCann.
'Snip'
Two months later, a masked man climbed the balcony to her apartment and attacked her as she slept in the early hours.
He held a knife to her throat, tied her up and gagged her, then raped her repeatedly.
During the attack he threatened to kill her and left her bleeding before fleeing over the balcony.
Last month, when German drifter Christian B was named as the main suspect in the Madeleine case - and Ms Behan read about his conviction for raping an American woman in strikingly similar circumstances - she contacted the Scotland Yard Madeleine squad.
She told the Guardian newspaper: "My mind was blown when I read how he had attacked a woman in 2005, both the tactics and the methods he used, the tools he had with him, how well he had planned it out.
"I puked, to be honest with you, as reading about it took me right back to my experience."
Scotland Yard detectives interviewed Ms Behan and later told her they had contacted Portuguese police. It appears that has prompted the reopening of her case.
She has said she was badly treated by the Portuguese detectives, who abandoned their investigation after eight months without identifying a suspect.
Ms Behan described her attacker as white, slim, with blonde hair, blue eyes and possibly German.
According to the case files, detectives were unable to find anyone in their records who matched the description, but that was wrong.
In another Portuguese police file seen by Sky News, there are photographs of a young Christian B who does fit the description.
They were taken by police in 1999, five years before Ms Behan was raped, after he was arrested and deported to Germany for child sex crimes.
If police do find evidence against Christian B for Ms Behan's attack it is unlikely he would be charged as Portugal has a 15-year statute of limitations on rape investigations.
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629
Why reopen it if it's too late to prosecute, I wonder?
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Why reopen it if it's too late to prosecute, I wonder?
because its not
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If they find sufficient evidence, perhaps it's only the Germans who can prosecute Brueckner over the disappearance of Madeleine, seeing as how he is a German citizen.
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If they find sufficient evidence, perhaps it's only the Germans who can prosecute Brueckner over the disappearance of Madeleine, seeing as how he is a German citizen.
They've got another twenty two months to go.
But if there was sufficient evidence to charge Brueckner and there was a choice between prosecuting him in Germany or Portugal I would have difficulty deciding what my preference would be.
The rule of law seems to be worth something in Germany ... whereas it has been proved in Portugal that prosecutions don't seem to bother too much about forensics or other evidence and if suspects confess after being made punchbags and complain about it they just get extra added time on their sentence.
I'm a bit torn about where it would be best to try a suspect.
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Has Portugal expressed an interest in prosecuting this suspect? The Germans seem happy to deal with him.
And why should Portugal care?
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And why should Portugal care?
They've had over thirteen years to send divers into wells; they've had much longer than that to investigate brutal rapes committed on their home soil.
Only the present international interest in the German investigation into Brueckner seems to have galvanised them into any sort of action.
These crimes were committed on foreign nationals ... one wonders if the native Portuguese population is served any better?
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They've had over thirteen years to send divers into wells; they've had much longer than that to investigate brutal rapes committed on their home soil.
Only the present international interest in the German investigation into Brueckner seems to have galvanised them into any sort of action.
These crimes were committed on foreign nationals ... one wonders if the native Portuguese population is served any better?
Have they started on the other 20 yet? Could the media be wrong about their intentions?
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They've had over thirteen years to send divers into wells; they've had much longer than that to investigate brutal rapes committed on their home soil.
Only the present international interest in the German investigation into Brueckner seems to have galvanised them into any sort of action.
These crimes were committed on foreign nationals ... one wonders if the native Portuguese population is served any better?
Why should you be concerned ?
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Why should you be concerned ?
You are probably right as far as I am concerned. But maybe the people of Portugal are wondering what type of protection for them and their children when they realise what has been allowed to walk amongst them with impunity.
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You are probably right as far as I am concerned. But maybe the people of Portugal are wondering what type of protection for them and their children when they realise what has been allowed to walk amongst them with impunity.
As it's not possible to know what people living in Portugal think I don't see the point in speculating. There doesn't seem to have been a mass exodus of expats either as far as I know.
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They've had over thirteen years to send divers into wells; they've had much longer than that to investigate brutal rapes committed on their home soil.
Only the present international interest in the German investigation into Brueckner seems to have galvanised them into any sort of action.
These crimes were committed on foreign nationals ... one wonders if the native Portuguese population is served any better?
I very much doubt that The Portuguese Population is served any better. There are No Crimes that The PJ can't solve.
It remains a Dictatorship.
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Have they started on the other 20 yet? Could the media be wrong about their intentions?
What Intentions? They don't have any. Too much like hard work and a few brain cells.
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Why should you be concerned ?
Why should anyone not?
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I've got enough concerns about my own corrupt government to get overly excited about the shortcomings of another country
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If they find sufficient evidence, perhaps it's only the Germans who can prosecute Brueckner over the disappearance of Madeleine, seeing as how he is a German citizen.
Good question - I haven't looked into it yet.
If ever there was evidence concerning Joana, it would be too late to prosecute him in PT.
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It looks like it to me. And it is so much more easy to beat up a woman, Don't you think.
Look how this British woman was treated by the Portuguese justice and medical system after being raped on the Algarve. It’s quite sickening...
British rape victim describes horror as “laughing culprit” walks free
By Portugal Resident -27th February 2019
Facebook Twitter
A British hitchhiker who was raped at the side of a road in the Algarve in 2017 after accepting a lift from a Portuguese man has waived her anonymity and told her story in the hope no other woman faces the same ordeal she did “at the hands of the Portuguese legal system”.
Kate Juby, 23, has described the horrific event in a special TV report aired by SIC, entitled “Grande Reportagem – Crime, Silêncio e Preconceito” (Crime, Silence and Prejudice), as well as in an interview with the Sunday Mirror in the UK, explaining how the man who raped her, despite admitting his guilt, “strolled away from the court laughing, arm-in-arm with his wife”.
Receiving a four-and-a-half-year suspended sentence, 33-year-old Tiago Curado de Sousa was also made to pay €2,000 compensation, which Kate donated to a victims’ charity in Portugal.
The case dates back to April 2017 when Kate had travelled to Portugal with friends and had attended a music festival in Aljezur. Seeking a lift to Faro and having been assured that hitchhiking was safe in the Algarve, she accepted a ride from the passing mechanic.
After pulling off to a side track, the man appeared at the side of the truck shouting “come on, baby!”
He dragged her out, pinned her against the vehicle and raped her twice.
“I thought I was going to die. I kept saying ‘Please don’t kill me’. I said ‘If you do this just please let me go, please don’t murder me’.”
After he let her go, she ran to the main road where a German couple spotted her and called the police. But her experience at Portimão Hospital was another nightmare, as she described.
“They pinned me down on a bed and took all my clothes away from me. The doctor told me to stop crying, that I needed to ‘man up’.
“They took blood samples, then swabbed everywhere to get the DNA – but all the time holding me down and telling me not to make any noise, not to cry,” she said, adding that they told her to “stop being a baby as well”.
Kate now plans to appeal Curado de Sousa’s sentence and has been told a higher court will hear the case.
To see SIC’s Grande Reportagem – Crime, Silêncio e Preconceito’, click here
michael.bruxo@algarveresident.com
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Look how this British woman was treated by the Portuguese justice and medical system after being raped on the Algarve. It’s quite sickening...
British rape victim describes horror as “laughing culprit” walks free
By Portugal Resident -27th February 2019
Facebook Twitter
A British hitchhiker who was raped at the side of a road in the Algarve in 2017 after accepting a lift from a Portuguese man has waived her anonymity and told her story in the hope no other woman faces the same ordeal she did “at the hands of the Portuguese legal system”.
Kate Juby, 23, has described the horrific event in a special TV report aired by SIC, entitled “Grande Reportagem – Crime, Silêncio e Preconceito” (Crime, Silence and Prejudice), as well as in an interview with the Sunday Mirror in the UK, explaining how the man who raped her, despite admitting his guilt, “strolled away from the court laughing, arm-in-arm with his wife”.
Receiving a four-and-a-half-year suspended sentence, 33-year-old Tiago Curado de Sousa was also made to pay €2,000 compensation, which Kate donated to a victims’ charity in Portugal.
The case dates back to April 2017 when Kate had travelled to Portugal with friends and had attended a music festival in Aljezur. Seeking a lift to Faro and having been assured that hitchhiking was safe in the Algarve, she accepted a ride from the passing mechanic.
After pulling off to a side track, the man appeared at the side of the truck shouting “come on, baby!”
He dragged her out, pinned her against the vehicle and raped her twice.
“I thought I was going to die. I kept saying ‘Please don’t kill me’. I said ‘If you do this just please let me go, please don’t murder me’.”
After he let her go, she ran to the main road where a German couple spotted her and called the police. But her experience at Portimão Hospital was another nightmare, as she described.
“They pinned me down on a bed and took all my clothes away from me. The doctor told me to stop crying, that I needed to ‘man up’.
“They took blood samples, then swabbed everywhere to get the DNA – but all the time holding me down and telling me not to make any noise, not to cry,” she said, adding that they told her to “stop being a baby as well”.
Kate now plans to appeal Curado de Sousa’s sentence and has been told a higher court will hear the case.
To see SIC’s Grande Reportagem – Crime, Silêncio e Preconceito’, click here
michael.bruxo@algarveresident.com
There seems to be something wrong with the psyche of many of the PT semi / professionals. Their behaviour is awful with a complete lack of empathy or compassion. All strength to Kates elbow.
interesting that her aggressor has the name " de Sousa "; same as Amarals middle name. Goncalo de Sousa Amaral.
Also a "de Sousa" a grand parent of Isobel, Duchess of Braganza and of course "Geudes do Amaral" is also a great grand parent, both in the same bloodline thread as the Queen pretender to the throne of Portugal.
Would that regal connection have any bearing on the likelihood of a fair trial for Kate ? I was wondering ?
What do others think?
Additionally, I notice that the "here" button doesn't work for me. Everything wiped. Same as on a post about a week ago, everything wiped when the "here" button was pressed. And try to find this report on the internet, and it has been wiped too, along with a video. Who is behind the cheating?
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There seems to be something wrong with the psyche of many of the PT semi / professionals. Their behaviour is awful with a complete lack of empathy or compassion. All strength to Kates elbow.
interesting that her aggressor has the name " de Sousa "; same as Amarals middle name. Goncalo de Sousa Amaral.
Also a "de Sousa" a grand parent of Isobel, Duchess of Braganza and of course "Geudes do Amaral" is also a great grand parent, both in the same bloodline thread as the Queen pretender to the throne of Portugal.
Would that regal connection have any bearing on the likelihood of a fair trial for Kate ? I was wondering ?
What do others think?
Additionally, I notice that the "here" button doesn't work for me. Everything wiped. Same as on a post about a week ago, everything wiped when the "here" button was pressed. And try to find this report on the internet, and it has been wiped too, along with a video. Who is behind the cheating?
You are! What sort of computer are you on... a 1945 ENIAC?!!!
https://ms-my.facebook.com/PROBONOPortugal/videos/crime-sil%C3%AAncio-e-preconceito-grande-reportagem-sic/1015736061946150/ (https://ms-my.facebook.com/PROBONOPortugal/videos/crime-sil%C3%AAncio-e-preconceito-grande-reportagem-sic/1015736061946150/)
https://www.probonoportugal.com/single-post/2019/02/18/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre-consentimento (https://www.probonoportugal.com/single-post/2019/02/18/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre-consentimento)
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You are! What sort of computer are you on... a 1945 ENIAC?!!!
https://ms-my.facebook.com/PROBONOPortugal/videos/crime-sil%C3%AAncio-e-preconceito-grande-reportagem-sic/1015736061946150/ (https://ms-my.facebook.com/PROBONOPortugal/videos/crime-sil%C3%AAncio-e-preconceito-grande-reportagem-sic/1015736061946150/)
https://www.probonoportugal.com/single-post/2019/02/18/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre-consentimento (https://www.probonoportugal.com/single-post/2019/02/18/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre-consentimento)
Thankyou Myster. I got the written word, but no sound, but that doesn't matter in this case, cos I don't speak Portuguese. Translation below.
I usually have to change my computer every two years and this computer will have its second birthday in September. I must admit I have never liked this one.
The wretched contraption gets bunged up with overwhelming adverts and various odd things happen to it. This is despite running CCleaner every night and various other paid for + free protection programs that I run frequently. I doubt that I shall change this one cos I doubt I have 2 years left and I hardly have the energy to read yet alone contribute ^*&&
ETA: By the way, I have never cheated in my life. That is the mode of others on here, not me.
Translation
PRO BONO Portugal
18 February 2019 ·
...
The report shown by SIC, in the series “crime, silence and prejudice”, puts the finger on the wound of an old, serious and still unsolved problem: the crime of rape, the victim's word and all the machismo that prevents these cases are effectively punished as serious crimes that they are. More than that, the report brings up the other side of the drama suffered by victims of sexual violence: secondary victimization. As a matter of urgency, the report draws attention to the fact that we need to talk about consent. About sexual abuse. About rape, this serious, horrendous and abject crime, but when it happens we judge the victim and not his villain. We need to keep in mind, once and for all, that sexual freedom is also an expensive value to our society.
On this subject, @ Jéssika Mayara Oliveira Aguiar, wrote an important reflection on the PRO BONO Blog: https://www.probonoportugal.com/…/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre…
The full report can be seen here: https://sicnoticias.pt/…/2019-01-27-Crime-Silencio-e-Precon…
Sounds pretty grim for the victim
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Thankyou Myster. I got the written word, but no sound, but that doesn't matter in this case, cos I don't speak Portuguese. Translation below.
I usually have to change my computer every two years and this computer will have its second birthday in September. I must admit I have never liked this one.
The wretched contraption gets bunged up with overwhelming adverts and various odd things happen to it. This is despite running CCleaner every night and various other paid for + free protection programs that I run frequently. I doubt that I shall change this one cos I doubt I have 2 years left and I hardly have the energy to read yet alone contribute ^*&&
ETA: By the way, I have never cheated in my life. That is the mode of others on here, not me.
Translation
PRO BONO Portugal
18 February 2019 ·
...
The report shown by SIC, in the series “crime, silence and prejudice”, puts the finger on the wound of an old, serious and still unsolved problem: the crime of rape, the victim's word and all the machismo that prevents these cases are effectively punished as serious crimes that they are. More than that, the report brings up the other side of the drama suffered by victims of sexual violence: secondary victimization. As a matter of urgency, the report draws attention to the fact that we need to talk about consent. About sexual abuse. About rape, this serious, horrendous and abject crime, but when it happens we judge the victim and not his villain. We need to keep in mind, once and for all, that sexual freedom is also an expensive value to our society.
On this subject, @ Jéssika Mayara Oliveira Aguiar, wrote an important reflection on the PRO BONO Blog: https://www.probonoportugal.com/…/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre…
The full report can be seen here: https://sicnoticias.pt/…/2019-01-27-Crime-Silencio-e-Precon…
Sounds pretty grim for the victim
Which is why I am prepared to spend so much money on a Mac.
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Thankyou Myster. I got the written word, but no sound, but that doesn't matter in this case, cos I don't speak Portuguese. Translation below.
I usually have to change my computer every two years and this computer will have its second birthday in September. I must admit I have never liked this one.
The wretched contraption gets bunged up with overwhelming adverts and various odd things happen to it. This is despite running CCleaner every night and various other paid for + free protection programs that I run frequently. I doubt that I shall change this one cos I doubt I have 2 years left and I hardly have the energy to read yet alone contribute ^*&&
ETA: By the way, I have never cheated in my life. That is the mode of others on here, not me.
I have CCleaner but hardly ever use it, because unless you know which specific files to delete, it tends to bin all the ones that you might need for other programs to function correctly. And running Windows 10, I only use their native antivirus program 'Windows Defender', which I find less intrusive, less complicated and just as effective as any bought ones.
A useful program to stop intrusive adverts is 'uBlock Origin' (NOT uBlock) which although it says is not an 'ad blocker', does so effectively on webpages such as YouTube, online newspapers, etc.... at least until these sites get wind that everyone is using it!
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ublock+origin (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ublock+origin)
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Thankyou Myster. I got the written word, but no sound, but that doesn't matter in this case, cos I don't speak Portuguese. Translation below.
I usually have to change my computer every two years and this computer will have its second birthday in September. I must admit I have never liked this one.
The wretched contraption gets bunged up with overwhelming adverts and various odd things happen to it. This is despite running CCleaner every night and various other paid for + free protection programs that I run frequently. I doubt that I shall change this one cos I doubt I have 2 years left and I hardly have the energy to read yet alone contribute ^*&&
ETA: By the way, I have never cheated in my life. That is the mode of others on here, not me.
Translation
PRO BONO Portugal
18 February 2019 ·
...
The report shown by SIC, in the series “crime, silence and prejudice”, puts the finger on the wound of an old, serious and still unsolved problem: the crime of rape, the victim's word and all the machismo that prevents these cases are effectively punished as serious crimes that they are. More than that, the report brings up the other side of the drama suffered by victims of sexual violence: secondary victimization. As a matter of urgency, the report draws attention to the fact that we need to talk about consent. About sexual abuse. About rape, this serious, horrendous and abject crime, but when it happens we judge the victim and not his villain. We need to keep in mind, once and for all, that sexual freedom is also an expensive value to our society.
On this subject, @ Jéssika Mayara Oliveira Aguiar, wrote an important reflection on the PRO BONO Blog: https://www.probonoportugal.com/…/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre…
The full report can be seen here: https://sicnoticias.pt/…/2019-01-27-Crime-Silencio-e-Precon…
Sounds pretty grim for the victim
Try Wise Registry Cleaner...its free and makes a massive diference....or even total factory reset if its really bad but save your files first
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Thankyou Myster. I got the written word, but no sound, but that doesn't matter in this case, cos I don't speak Portuguese. Translation below.
I usually have to change my computer every two years and this computer will have its second birthday in September. I must admit I have never liked this one.
The wretched contraption gets bunged up with overwhelming adverts and various odd things happen to it. This is despite running CCleaner every night and various other paid for + free protection programs that I run frequently. I doubt that I shall change this one cos I doubt I have 2 years left and I hardly have the energy to read yet alone contribute ^*&&
ETA: By the way, I have never cheated in my life. That is the mode of others on here, not me.
Translation
PRO BONO Portugal
18 February 2019 ·
...
The report shown by SIC, in the series “crime, silence and prejudice”, puts the finger on the wound of an old, serious and still unsolved problem: the crime of rape, the victim's word and all the machismo that prevents these cases are effectively punished as serious crimes that they are. More than that, the report brings up the other side of the drama suffered by victims of sexual violence: secondary victimization. As a matter of urgency, the report draws attention to the fact that we need to talk about consent. About sexual abuse. About rape, this serious, horrendous and abject crime, but when it happens we judge the victim and not his villain. We need to keep in mind, once and for all, that sexual freedom is also an expensive value to our society.
On this subject, @ Jéssika Mayara Oliveira Aguiar, wrote an important reflection on the PRO BONO Blog: https://www.probonoportugal.com/…/Precisamos-de-falar-sobre…
The full report can be seen here: https://sicnoticias.pt/…/2019-01-27-Crime-Silencio-e-Precon…
Sounds pretty grim for the victim
Glary Utilities free version gets rid of spyware and sorts out your registry and shortcuts with a quick scan.
And like someone else said if you have Windows 10 just use the built in Windows Defender security.... plus a weekly scan with Glary Utilities... Safe download here: https://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/download/ (https://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/download/). Running multiple security software options at the same time will slow your PC down, and these days Defender alone does a good job.
My newest laptop is 10 years plus old and still going strong!!
What have you done with old PCs / laptops?
PM if you want any help.... better get back on topic!!
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Good question - I haven't looked into it yet.
If ever there was evidence concerning Joana, it would be too late to prosecute him in PT.
How sad.
So no Justice for The Ciprianos
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How sad.
So no Justice for The Ciprianos
Joana got a semblance of justice: the 'mother' and uncle were convicted of murder and sentenced to sixteen years in jail. Not enough, but something at least.
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Joana got a semblance of justice: the 'mother' and uncle were convicted of murder and sentenced to sixteen years in jail. Not enough, but something at least.
It's only justice if they actually did it, which is questionable.
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It's only justice if they actually did it, which is questionable.
Define "semblance of justice"? But you are right "it's only justice if they actually did it".
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Define "semblance of justice"? But you are right "it's only justice if they actually did it".
Joana got "a semblance of justice" if you have unquestioning faith in the Portuguese police and justice system to do their job throughly and correctly. I don't.
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Joana got "a semblance of justice" if you have unquestioning faith in the Portuguese police and justice system to do their job throughly and correctly. I don't.
Have we not just seen the biggest cock up of all time.
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A former chief inspector believes the significant claim (concrete evidence) may have been lost in translation.
Mick Neville founded the Met Police’s Central Forensic Image Team in 2012 and spent a number of years working with the military police in Germany.
He told Daily Star Online: “A big issue here is the phrase ‘concrete evidence’.
“The German prosecutor has stated several times that he has concrete evidence that Madeleine is dead.
“But the meaning has been lost in translation. In English the phrase means ‘irrefutable’ but in German it means ‘reasonable suspicion’ or ‘more than a rumour’.
“German police need to ensure that there is concrete evidence before they make an arrest – but it not enough to convict.”
Days before sending the letter, Wolters told the Sunday Mirror that Madeleine could be alive.
He said: “Because there is no forensic evidence there may be a little bit of hope.
"We don’t want to kill the hope and because there is no forensic evidence it may be possible.”
German prisoner Brueckner, 43, was identified as the prime suspect last month.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-may-not-22439665
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A former chief inspector believes the significant claim (concrete evidence) may have been lost in translation.
Mick Neville founded the Met Police’s Central Forensic Image Team in 2012 and spent a number of years working with the military police in Germany.
He told Daily Star Online: “A big issue here is the phrase ‘concrete evidence’.
“The German prosecutor has stated several times that he has concrete evidence that Madeleine is dead.
“But the meaning has been lost in translation. In English the phrase means ‘irrefutable’ but in German it means ‘reasonable suspicion’ or ‘more than a rumour’.
“German police need to ensure that there is concrete evidence before they make an arrest – but it not enough to convict.”
Days before sending the letter, Wolters told the Sunday Mirror that Madeleine could be alive.
He said: “Because there is no forensic evidence there may be a little bit of hope.
"We don’t want to kill the hope and because there is no forensic evidence it may be possible.”
German prisoner Brueckner, 43, was identified as the prime suspect last month.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-may-not-22439665
....and the moonwalking begins.....Billie Jean anyone? Du du du du du du du du du du.......
This level of ineptitude needs a new word creating by your General - shambles + fiasco = shambiasco. Feel free to use the new word under fair use terms and conditions. Thank me later.
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....and the moonwalking begins.....Billie Jean anyone? Du du du du du du du du du du.......
This level of ineptitude needs a new word creating by your General - shambles + fiasco = shambiasco. Feel free to use the new word under fair use terms and conditions. Thank me later.
do you think if its in the Star it has to be true...It just doesnt fit with what else has been said. the germans say they have concrete evidence that they refuse to share with SY or the PJ. I don't see how taht fits with atranslation of a suspicion...it seems to me you will believe anything if it supports your opinion
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A former chief inspector believes the significant claim (concrete evidence) may have been lost in translation.
Mick Neville founded the Met Police’s Central Forensic Image Team in 2012 and spent a number of years working with the military police in Germany.
He told Daily Star Online: “A big issue here is the phrase ‘concrete evidence’.
“The German prosecutor has stated several times that he has concrete evidence that Madeleine is dead.
“But the meaning has been lost in translation. In English the phrase means ‘irrefutable’ but in German it means ‘reasonable suspicion’ or ‘more than a rumour’.
“German police need to ensure that there is concrete evidence before they make an arrest – but it not enough to convict.”
Days before sending the letter, Wolters told the Sunday Mirror that Madeleine could be alive.
He said: “Because there is no forensic evidence there may be a little bit of hope.
"We don’t want to kill the hope and because there is no forensic evidence it may be possible.”
German prisoner Brueckner, 43, was identified as the prime suspect last month.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-may-not-22439665
It's very kind of this chap to explain the nuances of the German language. Is he a qualified interpreter I wonder?
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It's very kind of this chap to explain the nuances of the German language. Is he a qualified interpreter I wonder?
So you now seem to believe whats written in the Star...hilarious.... remember this...
One of the components of logical thinking is verifying the information you use;
"Check your sources of information and investigate every piece of information that you find even slightly questionable. You must check everything for their authenticity before you begin to evaluate the worth of any such information you have gathered."
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So you now seem to believe whats written in the Star...hilarious.... remember this...
One of the components of logical thinking is verifying the information you use;
"Check your sources of information and investigate every piece of information that you find even slightly questionable. You must check everything for their authenticity before you begin to evaluate the worth of any such information you have gathered."
It was Brietta who posted it.
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It was Brietta who posted it.
I understand that...I'm making acomment on gunits post where she seems to be taking it seriously
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I understand that...I'm making acomment on gunits post where she seems to be taking it seriously
And why do you think Brietta posted it ? For a laugh ?
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I understand that...I'm making acomment on gunits post where she seems to be taking it seriously
I'm afraid you have misunderstood my sarcastic comment. I'm sure this bloke said something, but I very much doubt if he's a qualified expert on German to English translations. The story is definately chaff, imo.
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I understand that...I'm making acomment on gunits post where she seems to be taking it seriously
Oooh, the cringe factor. Mate, that particular ball came from you side of the court.
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Oooh, the cringe factor. Mate, that particular ball came from you side of the court.
I think you are taking it a bit tooooo seriously
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Haven't we all had enough of Translation Errors?
Just be careful.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=734n3yZJ8gs
Prosecution is going to be a tall order, by the look of it. Some interesting tidbits here in this interview with Friedrich Fulscher, lawyer of CB.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=734n3yZJ8gs
Prosecution is going to be a tall order, by the look of it. Some interesting tidbits here in this interview with Friedrich Fulscher, lawyer of CB.
Personally, I think they've got No Chance. It is all way too late now.
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Personally, I think they've got No Chance. It is all way too late now.
It's looking like, despite him being a known beast, he's got nothing to do with this.
So it's not too late, they just need to investigate the right people.
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It's looking like, despite him being a known beast, he's got nothing to do with this.
So it's not too late, they just need to investigate the right people.
It doesn't look like he's got nothing to do with this. There just isn't any evidence.
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It doesn't look like he's got nothing to do with this. There just isn't any evidence.
Which is exactly the same thing.
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Which is exactly the same thing.
No, it isn't.
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I watched a news report yesterday which said taht this prosecutor is not the sort of person who would make an unsubstantiated allegation. Its good to see that some sceptics now believe that Kate was absolutely right not to answer the 48 questions.
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There is a subtle difference in that Kate was asked question by police, whereas by all accounts police have not questioned Brueckner.
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I watched a news report yesterday which said taht this prosecutor is not the sort of person who would make an unsubstantiated allegation. Its good to see some sceptics now believe that Kate was absolutely right not to answer the 48 questions.
Where are these sceptics? I thought sweeping generalisations were now not permitted? They haven't even interviewed him yet.
I don't think any prosecutor with a brain would go public with nothing. There's something, but it's not 'concrete' or even substantive - a phone ping to a tower which, in 2007, could be narrowed down to the town and the environs.
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Where are these sceptics? I thought sweeping generalisations were now not permitted? They haven't even interviewed him yet.
I don't think any prosecutor with a brain would go public with nothing. There's something, but it's not 'concrete' or even substantive - a phone ping to a tower which, in 2007, could be narrowed down to the town and the environs.
The concrete evidence isn't the phone ping...that's been revealed..HCW has refused to reveal what he considers concrete evidence. It seems many people who have met him think he could be responsible
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The concrete evidence isn't the phone ping...that's been revealed..HCW has refused to reveal what he considers concrete evidence. It seems many people who have met him think he could be responsible
I'm afraid it is, Davel.
Hey, nobody can say they haven't tried, fair play to them, they certainly went all out.
He only came to light after his name cropped up twice, so they went through the 40,000 bits of data on the phone records and they got a match with his phone. That's it.
And 2nd hand, extremely belated opinion of acquaintances is exponentially weaker 'evidence' than an uncorroborated dog alert.
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I watched a news report yesterday which said taht this prosecutor is not the sort of person who would make an unsubstantiated allegation. Its good to see some sceptics now believe that Kate was absolutely right not to answer the 48 questions.
Of course she was. And so was he.
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The concrete evidence isn't the phone ping...that's been revealed..HCW has refused to reveal what he considers concrete evidence. It seems many people who have met him think he could be responsible
Is that concrete evidence or justified suspicion? Translations, eh? Do you mean all the people who enjoyed their 2 minutes of fame by speaking to the media?
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Is that concrete evidence or justified suspicion? Translations, eh? Do you mean all the people who enjoyed their 2 minutes of fame by speaking to the media?
I think you and others are in total denial
To dismiss what those who know him as lies by those who have taken 10 pieces of silver is ridiculous...imo.
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I'm afraid it is, Davel.
Hey, nobody can say they haven't tried, fair play to them, they certainly went all out.
He only came to light after his name cropped up twice, so they went through the 40,000 bits of data on the phone records and they got a match with his phone. That's it.
And 2nd hand, extremely belated opinion of acquaintances is exponentially weaker 'evidence' than an uncorroborated dog alert.
No it isn't...it cannot be. Listen to HCW
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The concrete evidence isn't the phone ping...that's been revealed..HCW has refused to reveal what he considers concrete evidence. It seems many people who have met him think he could be responsible
No completely innocent person needs to be told by their lawyer not to answer police questions for fear they might incriminate themself. What was Kate McCann so afraid of?
By refusing to answer any of the 48 questions she made herself look guilty as hell imo.
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No completely innocent person needs to be told by their lawyer not to answer police questions for fear they might incriminate themself. What was Kate McCann so afraid of?
By refusing to answer any of the 48 questions she made herself look guilty as hell imo.
So is Breukner making himself look guilty too. I think kate is innocent and was well advised in the circumsatnces
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So is Breukner making himself look guilty too. I think kate is innocent and was well advised in the circumsatnces
He hasn't even been interviewed, let alone questioned under caution.
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He hasn't even been interviewed, let alone questioned under caution.
His lawyer has made it clear he will not answer questions. So based on some posters logic Kate and CB must be in it together
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His lawyer has made it clear he will not answer questions. So based on some posters logic Kate and CB must be in it together
Sorry. I thought that's where we have been heading for yonks.
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No completely innocent person needs to be told by their lawyer not to answer police questions for fear they might incriminate themself. What was Kate McCann so afraid of?
By refusing to answer any of the 48 questions she made herself look guilty as hell imo.
"Guilty" of what ?
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His lawyer has made it clear he will not answer questions. So based on some posters logic Kate and CB must be in it together
What other combinations of togetherness are possible?
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His lawyer has made it clear he will not answer questions. So based on some posters logic Kate and CB must be in it together
It doesn't matter what his lawyer claims.
What matters is what he chooses to do when questioned, if the police ever get round to doing so.
At the moment they are too busy searching random wells & digging allotments.
They seem to think Maddie may still be alive, even though they have concrete evidence that she's dead.
Extraordinary.
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It doesn't matter what his lawyer claims.
What matters is what he chooses to do when questioned, if the police ever get round to doing so.
At the moment they are too busy searching random wells & digging allotments.
They seem to think Maddie may still be alive, even though they have concrete evidence that she's dead.
Extraordinary.
you seem to be in denial too...the Germans have said they think shes dead
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you seem to be in denial too...the Germans have said they think shes dead
Yes, either that or she's alive. Such is the strength of their evidence.
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I think you and others are in total denial
To dismiss what those who know him as lies by those who have taken 10 pieces of silver is ridiculous...imo.
I've dismissed nothing as lies, but things remembered in hindsight often weren't seen as important at the time. The McCann twins slept like logs on 3/4th of May, but their mother never did anything about it. Only years later, with hindsight, did she suggest she had been afraid they might die.
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Yes, either that or she's alive. Such is the strength of their evidence.
They have concrete evidence she is dead and Breukner killled her...according to HCW....what that evidence is HCW will not say. IMO he gave amassive clue when he refuded to confirm there were no images of Maddie on the memory sticks
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I've dismissed nothing as lies, but things remembered in hindsight often weren't seen as important at the time. The McCann twins slept like logs on 3/4th of May, but their mother never did anything about it. Only years later, with hindsight, did she suggest she had been afraid they might die.
So you accept the accounts made by his friends are genuine and not made up simply to earn some money...thanks
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They have concrete evidence she is dead and Breukner killled her...according to HCW....what that evidence is HCW will not say. IMO he gave amassive clue when he refuded to confirm there were no images of Maddie on the memory sticks
Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE, admits German prosecutor in U-turn as he confirms there is no forensic evidence to show she is dead.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418077/Madeleine-McCann-ALIVE-admits-German-prosecutor.html
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So you accept the accounts made by his friends are genuine and not made up simply to earn some money...thanks
I have no idea and neither have you.
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Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE, admits German prosecutor in U-turn as he confirms there is no forensic evidence to show she is dead.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418077/Madeleine-McCann-ALIVE-admits-German-prosecutor.html
Theres no proof the PJ werent involved either....and its no less likely imo... I understand exactly why HCW said that
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I have no idea and neither have you.
you may have seen this post before...
I think you and others are in total denial
To dismiss what those who know him as lies by those who have taken 10 pieces of silver is ridiculous...imo.
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Even Amaral says Breukner is the perfect suspect. I find the excuses and denial about his possible involvement ridiculous
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Even Amaral says Breukner is the perfect suspect. I find the excuses and denial about his possible involvement ridiculous
In order for Brueckner to be involved, Maddie would have to have been abducted.
She wasn't imo.
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what do you kmow....lol
I know she wasn't abducted, that's what I know.
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I know she wasn't abducted, that's what I know.
No you don't know...and the fact you think you do doesn't say a lot for your assessment of the evidence.
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No you don't know...and the fact you think you do doesn't say a lot for your assessment of the evidence.
Yes I do know.
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It doesn't look like he's got nothing to do with this. There just isn't any evidence.
Does that also apply to the parents ?
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Yes I do know.
The unshakeable faith of the True Believer is a sight to behold.
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Yes I do know.
Looks like you don't know what you know then.
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I'm just following the evidence.
There's no evidence Brueckner ever entered 5a.
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There’s no evidence anyone ever threw Madeleine in a bin.
I'never said I'm certain about the method of disposal.
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I'never said I'm certain about the method of disposal.
So where was it hidden just before the town was crawling with police and searchers, oh he who knows pretty much everything else?
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So where was it hidden just before the town was crawling with police and searchers, oh he who knows pretty much everything else?
Maybe in a bin.
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Maybe in a bin.
There’s no evidence for it, yet you claim to be “following the evidence”.
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I'm just following the evidence.
There's no evidence Brueckner ever entered 5a.
Who says he entered 5A?
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Maybe in a bin.
Would you dispose of a body in a bin, when the chances are people searching would be looking in the bins?
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Would you dispose of a body in a bin, when the chances are people searching would be looking in the bins?
Why would you be searching for a live child in a bin?
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Would you dispose of a body in a bin, when the chances are people searching would be looking in the bins?
i dont normally answer you but you would be suprised in my street a drug deal went wrong and they decapitated a young man they put his head in a wheelie/recycle bin
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There’s no evidence for it, yet you claim to be “following the evidence”.
There's no evidence Brueckner abducted Maddie either, so I don't quite see your point.
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There's no evidence Brueckner abducted Maddie either, so I don't quite see your point.
The point is - your double standards.
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Why would you be searching for a live child in a bin?
Who said they were searching for a live child in a bin?
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i dont normally answer you but you would be suprised in my street a drug deal went wrong and they decapitated a young man they put his head in a wheelie/recycle bin
That is quite different from apparently staging an abduction and putting Madeleine in a bin where she could have easily been found by one of the search party.
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That is quite different from apparently staging an abduction and putting Madeleine in a bin where she could have easily been found by one of the search party.
I think the searchers were looking for a child who'd wandered off. Although her father mentioned paedophiles to his relatives he doesn't seem to have got that message to the searchers, so they wouldn't be thinking of bins.
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I think the searchers were looking for a child who'd wandered off. Although her father mentioned paedophiles to his relatives he doesn't seem to have got that message to the searchers, so they wouldn't be thinking of bins.
How do you know what every searcher would be thinking? Do you think they were all automatons, unthinkingly doing the same thing, ie looking for a child who had simply wandered off?
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I think the searchers were looking for a child who'd wandered off. Although her father mentioned paedophiles to his relatives he doesn't seem to have got that message to the searchers, so they wouldn't be thinking of bins.
from memory maddie had ran off another night of the holiday playing hide and seek?? and they had to find her that night too
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frpm memory maddie had ran off another night of the holiday playing hide and seek?? and they had to find her that night to
How about a cite for that, please.
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Would you dispose of a body in a bin, when the chances are people searching would be looking in the bins?
That’s the point.
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Who says he entered 5A?
The german could have knocked her down with his vehicle in the street, because of his past record disposed of,then scarpered,prove it wrong mr prosecutor.Oh! the pj have said unlikely, which is not the same as impossible for woke and wandered.
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The german could have knocked her down with his vehicle in the street, because of his past record disposed of,then scarpered,prove it wrong mr prosecutor.Oh! the pj have said unlikely, which is not the same as impossible for woke and wandered.
Madeliene knocked over and killed by a burglar/paedophile.....what a coincidence
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Madeliene knocked over and killed by a burglar/paedophile.....what a coincidence
Too busy filming on his mobile phone as he was driving along the road??
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Madeliene knocked over and killed by a burglar/paedophile.....what a coincidence
No matter how you want to cut it,there's no evidence of an abduction from 5a, have the German police ever said they believe their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a?
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No matter how you want to cut it,there's no evidence of an abduction from 5a, have the German police ever said they believe their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a?
the open window is evidence....and it seems Breukners normal method of burglary. Who better to know the shutters could be easily openeed from the outside
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the open window is evidence....and it seems Breukners normal method of burglary. Who better to know the shutters could be easily openeed from the outside
Break in when an experienced burglar could walk in? Clever. Maybe the window was a red herring after all.
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No matter how you want to cut it,there's no evidence of an abduction from 5a, have the German police ever said they believe their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a?
Strange as 5a was the last place Madeleine was seen. Sleeping in her bed. So where do you think he may have abducted her from?
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the open window is evidence....and it seems Breukners normal method of burglary. Who better to know the shutters could be easily openeed from the outside
The supposed open window of which very few saw is evidence of an open window nothing else,have the Germans ever said they believe their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a?
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Strange as 5a was the last place Madeleine was seen. Sleeping in her bed. So where do you think he may have abducted her from?
Nowhere.
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the open window is evidence....and it seems Breukners normal method of burglary. Who better to know the shutters could be easily openeed from the outside
Bearing in mind Mrs Fenn actually witnessing an intruder exiting from her window on the floor above. The window is now barred as are the windows in 5A and the windows of 4A, which had previously been burgled.
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Nowhere.
Are you sure about that?
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The supposed open window of which very few saw is evidence of an open window nothing else,have the Germans ever said they believe their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a?
The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
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Strange as 5a was the last place Madeleine was seen. Sleeping in her bed. So where do you think he may have abducted her from?
Show me where the germans think their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a.
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The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
Show me where the germans think their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a.
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The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
It's not even a fact that it was open.
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The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
Show me where the germans think their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a.
In my opinion your original question has been answered. Please allow the thread to progress without deflection, Thank you.
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The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
Where is the evidence that the window was open ?
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Strange as 5a was the last place Madeleine was seen. Sleeping in her bed. So where do you think he may have abducted her from?
How do you know there was an abduction...let alone CB doing it.
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Where is the evidence that the window was open ?
In the files? Bearing in mind a witness statement is categorised as evidence.
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The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
So why was some looking at woke an wondered as a possibility if that is a fact.
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So why was some looking at woke an wondered as a possibility if that is a fact.
Sigh ... because it is necessary to check out all eventualities that is why.
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Where is the evidence that the window was open ?
Kate's statement is evidence of abduction...you can think she's lying if you want but it's not up to you...her statement is evidence
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Sigh ... because it is necessary to check out all eventualities that is why.
The open window is evidence supporting abduction...that is a fact.
How could maddie have woke and wandered if the window being open was a fact of abduction as D has said
Why would they have even considered woke and wondered?
Because the open window is not a fact.
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Anyway ... I'm not terribly sure the Germans are going to get bogged down on past sceptic certainties. The evidence appears to have led the present investigators directly to one of Brueckner's many doors it now only remains to be seen if they have the key to unlock it.
I think there is a fair probability they may have, so we will just have to wait and see.
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Kate's statement is evidence of abduction...you can think she's lying if you want but it's not up to you...her statement is evidence
Ditto Martin Smith.
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Anyway ... I'm not terribly sure the Germans are going to get bogged down on past sceptic certainties. The evidence appears to have led the present investigators directly to one of Brueckner's many doors it now only remains to be seen if they have the key to unlock it.
I think there is a fair probability they may have, so we will just have to wait and see.
The probability is also they are all deadlocked.
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Ditto Martin Smith.
agreed
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The probability is also they are all deadlocked.
Why did you reach that conclusion from what I have posted. I think you are entirely wrong. I think there is a llot going on behind the scenes. Some of which we will find out about and much that we never will.
I am mystified as to the amount of ill wishes directed towards the possibility that Madeleine's case may at last be resolved.
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The probability is also they are all deadlocked.
This magic key is wholly dependent upon tracing the owner of a phone in 2007. That's it.
In 2007 buying a burner / throwaway was like buying a Mars Bar - no registration required. If it's a burner then it's gone; it's in the wind.
So then they turn their attention to whomever CB was allegedly talking to somewhere in the environs of Luz on 04.05.07 for 30 minutes. Well this mystery caller has not presented themselves, so they're either living like a Pythonesque hermit in a hole, dead, don't want anything to do with it, deceased, oblivious or dead.
It's been 6-8 weeks - nada. They've dug more holes than the Aussie Gold Hunters - nichts.
The lawyer of CB was not exactly sitting on the fence, his man ain't talking, why? Because his testimony is their last bastion.
Is he guilty? Who knows. But he will keep his mouth shut (cue the inevitable Leonor / torture trope) and we will move on. He may or may not be given a new 7 year sentence and maybe 3 years for 'possession' of child porn (which is unlikely to stick), then he and his new lawyer will be extremely wealthy men when they sue every media outlet on the planet, which is not a desirable outcome for a beast / rapist to attain. It's gross incompetence.
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Why did you reach that conclusion from what I have posted. I think you are entirely wrong. I think there is a llot going on behind the scenes. Some of which we will find out about and much that we never will.
I am mystified as to the amount of ill wishes directed towards the possibility that Madeleine's case may at last be resolved.
You tell me why what you post should be gospel.
When at the end of the day you know no more than me its only what you think.
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You tell me why what you post should be gospel.
When at the end of the day you know no more than me its only what you think.
I think it might be more sensible just to wait a few weeks and see exactly what the Germans have
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You tell me why what you post should be gospel.
When at the end of the day you know no more than me its only what you think.
In my opinion the reason for posting as accurate as possible information on a discussion forum is to form the basis of a discussion either in agreement or disagreement.
The response should not be plucked out of the air and bearing absolutely no relevance to the post supposedly being answered. If you wish to make stand alone assertions please do just that, but please do not use another poster's unrelated post for it as a launch pad.
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I think it might be more sensible just to wait a few weeks and see exactly what the Germans have
They have had 9 weeks so what difference is a couple more weeks going to make.make.
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They have had 9 weeks so what difference is a couple more weeks going to make.make.
simple...see if you can work oit out
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simple...see if you can work oit out
His appeal is this week, isn't it. We'll see the ball roll when that's done and dusted.
They'll try to ping him for child porn possession if he's sprung.
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His appeal is this week, isn't it. We'll see the ball roll when that's done and dusted.
They'll try to ping him for child porn possession if he's sprung.
If hes sprung.....is it supposed to be thursday
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If hes sprung.....is it supposed to be thursday
Yes. As you know, I'm no legal expert, but his case looks pretty cut and dried in terms of the technical legal point being present, but I seriously doubt they would expunge for a serious offence. A retrial would be more likely, but who knows.
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In my opinion your original question has been answered. Please allow the thread to progress without deflection, Thank you.
No its not,where have the germans say their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a.
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Yes. As you know, I'm no legal expert, but his case looks pretty cut and dried in terms of the technical legal point being present, but I seriously doubt they would expunge for a serious offence. A retrial would be more likely, Shirley, but who knows.
I dont see his case is cut and dried. If a person is extradited re one crime....and then at a later date is accused of another....are you suggesting he can never be tried for the second crime. That doesnt make sense to me. I think there is some leeway in the decision...again we need to wait and see.
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How do you know there was an abduction...let alone CB doing it.
The Police are investigating abduction. I said 'he' I didn't say CB.
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I dont see his case is cut and dried. If a person is extradited re one crime....and then at a later date is accused of another....are you suggesting he can never be tried for the second crime. That doesnt make sense to me. I think there is some leeway in the decision...again we need to wait and see.
No, that's not what I'm saying and that's not what the appeal states either.
He was extradited for a crime and the paperwork processed for that crime - very specific. You can't then pile a load of other stuff on top when you get him in the back of the van.
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No, that's not what I'm saying and that's not what the appeal states either.
He was extradited for a crime and the paperwork processed for that crime - very specific. You can't then pile a load of other stuff on top when you get him in the back of the van.
he was extradited for that crime ..yes...bu if another crime comes to light after the extradition surely he is not immune to prosecution for a more serious crime
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No its not,where have the germans say their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a.
Depends what CB said when he was bragging about it in the pub, it wasn't just the person who informed the Police that heard him, others heard him telling his story.
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he was extradited for that crime ..yes...bu if another crime comes to light after the extradition surely he is not immune to prosecution for a more serious crime
Vagrancy's of the law, any half decent lawyer exposes such for their client, whether it is in this case remains to be seen.
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The bottom line, if Brueckner is never charge is that his life as he knows it will cease to exist. And he will never dare to show his face in public ever again.
No more Road Trips to Portugal or Italy, or anywhere for that matter. And if he ever goes anywhere near another child he will probably be lynched. Dead in the water in fact.
There are Fates worse than Prison.
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Vagrancy's of the law, any half decent lawyer exposes such for their client, whether it is in this case remains to be seen.
yes...it remains to be seen but we know that the law has excusions re what can and cannot be prosecuted. Its not absolute
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Depends what CB said when he was bragging about it in the pub, it wasn't just the person who informed the Police that heard him, others heard him telling his story.
He supposedly said he snatched her, no mention of where from.
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he was extradited for that crime ..yes...bu if another crime comes to light after the extradition surely he is not immune to prosecution for a more serious crime
If that were the case he wouldn't even get through the door of the appeal court - the case has to pass the tests to even be heard.
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simple...see if you can work oit out
Work what oit
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The bottom line, if Brueckner is never charge is that his life as he knows it will cease to exist. And he will never dare to show his face in public ever again.
No more Road Trips to Portugal or Italy, or anywhere for that matter. And if he ever goes anywhere near another child he will probably be lynched. Dead in the water in fact.
There are Fates worse than Prison.
Don't see it El, he's only possibly known in the McCann case circles, do you think people of his ilk will care?
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If that were the case he wouldn't even get through the door of the appeal court - the case has to pass the tests to even be heard.
There is that, I doubt the ECJ hears cases on a whim without some serious legal consideration.
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Don't see it El, he's only possibly known in the McCann case circles, do you think people of his ilk will care?
But will he know this? The fear will always be there.
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But will he know this? The fear will always be there.
It probably is amongst drug circles any way.
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But will he know this? The fear will always be there.
If he was liberated, which I don't believe will happen, once he's finished suing everyone he could reinvent himself and maybe even get that gozzy eye corrected.
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This magic key is wholly dependent upon tracing the owner of a phone in 2007. That's it.
In 2007 buying a burner / throwaway was like buying a Mars Bar - no registration required. If it's a burner then it's gone; it's in the wind.
So then they turn their attention to whomever CB was allegedly talking to somewhere in the environs of Luz on 04.05.07 for 30 minutes. Well this mystery caller has not presented themselves, so they're either living like a Pythonesque hermit in a hole, dead, don't want anything to do with it, deceased, oblivious or dead.
It's been 6-8 weeks - nada. They've dug more holes than the Aussie Gold Hunters - nichts.
The lawyer of CB was not exactly sitting on the fence, his man ain't talking, why? Because his testimony is their last bastion.
Is he guilty? Who knows. But he will keep his mouth shut (cue the inevitable Leonor / torture trope) and we will move on. He may or may not be given a new 7 year sentence and maybe 3 years for 'possession' of child porn (which is unlikely to stick), then he and his new lawyer will be extremely wealthy men when they sue every media outlet on the planet, which is not a desirable outcome for a beast / rapist to attain. It's gross incompetence.
Never going to happen. IMO.
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If he was liberated, which I don't believe will happen, once he's finished suing everyone he could reinvent himself and maybe even get that gozzy eye corrected.
Sue? What for? He has No Reputation left to lose.
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Sue? What for? He has No Reputation left to lose.
I would agree with you, but that's not how libel laws work. Additionally, as I've mentioned here in the past, Germany have the strictest privacy laws in the EU, maybe the world, which came in to being in 2018. He's going to hit the big time - he can pursue civil suits against any media outlet from a German base and wait for the cash to roll in.
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I would agree with you, but that's not how libel laws work. Additionally, as I've mentioned here in the past, Germany have the strictest privacy laws in the EU, maybe the world, which came in to being in 2018. He's going to hit the big time - he can pursue civil suits against any media outlet from a German base and wait for the cash to roll in.
He hasn’t been named in Germany.
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He hasn’t been named in Germany.
But he has elsewhere, Jack Sparrow is suing the sun, he's not a brit.
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In the files? Bearing in mind a witness statement is categorised as evidence.
Somehow I thought you'd say that.
One person said the window was open?Are you saying without corroboration that it's evidence of a fact ?
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Somehow I thought you'd say that.
One person said the window was open?Are you saying without corroboration that it's evidence of a fact ?
kates statement is evidence...that is a fact..
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But he has elsewhere, Jack Sparrow is suing the sun, he's not a brit.
CB cannot sue british papers under german rivacy laws
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kates statement is evidence...that is a fact..
It's a fact her statement exists yes , not evidence beyond any reasonable doubt tho.
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It's a fact her statement exists yes , not evidence beyond any reasonable doubt tho.
Its evidence of abduction....you need to understand what is meant by evidence. Evidence doesnt always prove something...but taken to gether with other evidence it can.
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Its evidence of abduction....you need to understand what is meant by evidence. Evidence doesnt always prove something...but taken to gether with other evidence it can.
You need to understand what is meant by evidence.
Evidence doesn't always prove something...but taken together with other evidence it can.
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I think...
I never said he would use German privacy laws to sue for libel, I was pointing out the particularly litigious environment Germany has evolved in to.
He can hire a lawyer in any country of his choosing and have a turkey shoot.
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kates statement is evidence...that is a fact..
Hearsay without corroboration.
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Its evidence of abduction....you need to understand what is meant by evidence. Evidence doesnt always prove something...but taken to gether with other evidence it can.
.but taken to gether with other evidence it can.
So the same goes with what the dogs found then.
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.but taken to gether with other evidence it can.
So the same goes with what the dogs found then.
what did the dogs find
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The bottom line, if Brueckner is never charge is that his life as he knows it will cease to exist. And he will never dare to show his face in public ever again.
No more Road Trips to Portugal or Italy, or anywhere for that matter. And if he ever goes anywhere near another child he will probably be lynched. Dead in the water in fact.
There are Fates worse than Prison.
And that is exactly why suing the newspapers will be so profitable for him.
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And that is exactly why suing the newspapers will be so profitable for him.
suing which newspapers...the UK ppapers arent governed by German privacy laws...remenber Spycatcher....perhaps similar
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And that is exactly why suing the newspapers will be so profitable for him.
What? For doing the things he's been Convicted of?
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What? For doing the things he's been Convicted of?
No for accusing him of doing the things he hasn’t.
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I never said he would use German privacy laws to sue for libel, I was pointing out the particularly litigious environment Germany has evolved in to.
He can hire a lawyer in any country of his choosing and have a turkey shoot.
I havent seen any libel....you need to point it out
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But he has elsewhere, Jack Sparrow is suing the sun, he's not a brit.
He’s also a multimillionaire with an international career that could potentially be harmed by his ex-wife’s allegations. Does CB have the money to bring a lawsuit against the UK media nd to protect what - his reputation as a paedophile and rapist with a sideline career in burglary?
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No for accusing him of doing the things he hasn’t.
So who is he going to Sue exactly, with his record?
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I never said he would use German privacy laws to sue for libel, I was pointing out the particularly litigious environment Germany has evolved in to.
He can hire a lawyer in any country of his choosing and have a turkey shoot.
Is he loaded then, or are you guys planning a whip round?
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No for accusing him of doing the things he hasn’t.
Hes aconvicted paedophile...rapist...Hes a suspect in the McCann case. Wheres the libel?
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I thought he'd served his sentence for sex crimes against children some 20 odd years ago.
Doesn't that make him an ex paedophile?
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I thought he'd served his sentence for sex crimes against children some 20 odd years ago.
Doesn't that make him an ex paedophile?
So is it libel to say he’s a paedophile then?
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Its evidence of abduction....you need to understand what is meant by evidence. Evidence doesnt always prove something...but taken to gether with other evidence it can.
In this case there is no other evidence to suspect an abduction took place and I do understand the meaning of the word .
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No its not,where have the germans say their suspect abducted Madeleine from 5a.
In my opinion the German's are dancing to no-one's tune; they are following the evidence whatever that may be and the evidence has led them to Bruekenr's door and unlike the PJ are hoping someone has the information which will open it.
Expecting a blow by blow account of their investigation as you appear to do is incredibly negative and naive.
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In this case there is no other evidence to suspect an abduction took place and I do understand the meaning of the word .
Maddie missing..open window...parents not suspects...woke and wandered highly unlikely according to the archiving report....that's some evidence.What do you think it suggests
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But will he know this? The fear will always be there.
In my opinion he will be known to the people who matter and already he is segregated from some of them for his own protection.
I think he will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.
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In this case there is no other evidence to suspect an abduction took place and I do understand the meaning of the word .
How do you explain the fact that three police forces are now treating this case as one of abduction by a stranger?
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Sue? What for? He has No Reputation left to lose.
Who lied about him ... no-one I know of, so to suggest he might sue is just plain silly in my opinion.
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I would agree with you, but that's not how libel laws work. Additionally, as I've mentioned here in the past, Germany have the strictest privacy laws in the EU, maybe the world, which came in to being in 2018. He's going to hit the big time - he can pursue civil suits against any media outlet from a German base and wait for the cash to roll in.
Maybe the person who first enabled his privacy to be breached should be worried then? You know ... the private citizen who hit the media with tales of a German prisoner in jail in Germany, but not the one doing life. followed by a mocked up photograph of him with long hair and a picture of the vehicle he was allegedly driving.
T'would always be a starting point to test exactly how robust the privacy laws in Germany shape up.
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According to the PJ files many samples of dogs’ hair were found in apartment 5A. Since Brückner is known to have had several dogs over a long period of time, perhaps a DNA match could be found on some clothing belonging to him?
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Somehow I thought you'd say that.
One person said the window was open?Are you saying without corroboration that it's evidence of a fact ?
Read my post very carefully ... I said a witness statement is evidence. It is not for you or anyone else on the internet to sit in judgement on what the witness has said.
All you or anyone else has to know and accept is that a witness statement is evidence.
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Maybe the person who first enabled his privacy to be breached should be worried then? You know ... the private citizen who hit the media with tales of a German prisoner in jail in Germany, but not the one doing life. followed by a mocked up photograph of him with long hair and a picture of the vehicle he was allegedly driving.
T'would always be a starting point to test exactly how robust the privacy laws in Germany shape up.
Oh my goodness, you don't mean AmaraL
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Read my post very carefully ... I said a witness statement is evidence. It is not for you or anyone else on the internet to sit in judgement on what the witness has said.
All you or anyone else has to know and accept is that a witness statement is evidence.
Of course, evidence can be true or false.
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Maybe the person who first enabled his privacy to be breached should be worried then? You know ... the private citizen who hit the media with tales of a German prisoner in jail in Germany, but not the one doing life. followed by a mocked up photograph of him with long hair and a picture of the vehicle he was allegedly driving.
T'would always be a starting point to test exactly how robust the privacy laws in Germany shape up.
Still missing the point. Privacy is one aspect - but what I can tell you about privacy in Germany when it comes to criminality, is that they take the concept of rehabilitation seriously, and that is only fully possible with the adherence to strict privacy laws, sometimes extending to post conviction. It's a basic tenet of their legal system and one of the reasons why their recidivism rate is one of the lowest in the Western world.
So on the one hand you have this enshrined privacy, that's probably been breached innumerable times, and on the other you have the civil aspect of libel across perpetrated across just about any medium you can think of - it's more of a matter of which of the turkeys to shoot first.
Hey, maybe one his lawyers will pop over to have a look at this place.
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One crime he's not to be charged with.
MADDIE BOMBSHELL Madeleine McCann suspect Christian B dramatically cleared of 1996 rape and murder of 11-year-old Claudia Ruf
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12301659/madeleine-mccann-christian-b-murder-rape-girl-11/
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Still missing the point. Privacy is one aspect - but what I can tell you about privacy in Germany when it comes to criminality, is that they take the concept of rehabilitation seriously, and that is only fully possible with the adherence to strict privacy laws, sometimes extending to post conviction. It's a basic tenet of their legal system and one of the reasons why their recidivism rate is one of the lowest in the Western world.
So on the one hand you have this enshrined privacy, that's probably been breached innumerable times, and on the other you have the civil aspect of libel across perpetrated across just about any medium you can think of - it's more of a matter of which of the turkeys to shoot first.
Hey, maybe one his lawyers will pop over to have a look at this place.
I dont see anywhere he has been libelled and secrecy law does not apply outside Germany. I havent seen anything on this forum that would pass the libel test re CB....or the McCanns. What amaral said does
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I dont see anywhere he has been libelled and secrecy law does not apply outside Germany. I havent seen anything on this forum that would pass the libel test re CB....or the McCanns. What amaral said does
Have you read all of the stories in the Serbian media?
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No problem.
cheers ...have a good evening
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cheers ...have a good evening
...and to you, sir.
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So who is he going to Sue exactly, with his record?
That’s not how libel works.
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That’s not how libel works.
some of us understand exactly how libel works ...so who is he going to sue and on what basis
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breukner has absolutely no basis to sue anyone...i'm happy to be corrected with any real reasons...please go ahead
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some of us understand exactly how libel works ...so who is he going to sue and on what basis
Explain why he wouldn’t be able to sue on the same basis as the parents?
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According to the PJ files many samples of dogs’ hair were found in apartment 5A. Since Brückner is known to have had several dogs over a long period of time, perhaps a DNA match could be found on some clothing belonging to him?
I always assumed the canine hairs mentioned in the forensic report belonged to the GNR dogs. It never occurred to me some could have been carried in on the clothes of an intruder. Of course they could!
Well thought through, Anthro.
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According to the PJ files many samples of dogs’ hair were found in apartment 5A. Since Brückner is known to have had several dogs over a long period of time, perhaps a DNA match could be found on some clothing belonging to him?
A DNA match to a dog?
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A DNA match to a dog?
You really couldn’t make it up.
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You really couldn’t make it up.
With all the investigators and the cast of many villains, it could be the hair of a Great Dane, like Scooby Doo.
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A DNA match to a dog?
If one of Brückner’s dog’s hairs was found in Apartment 5a how would that be explained away?
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If one of Brückner’s dog’s hairs was found in Apartment 5a how would that be explained away?
The capacity for ridicule of something which is not in the least ridiculous totally amazes me.
Dogs have DNA and it can be tested for.
Need to track down a dog poo-petrator? There’s a DNA test for that
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/27/dog-dna-test-pooprints
___________________________________________________________
Abstract
Dogs are intensely integrated in human social life and their shed hairs can play a major role in forensic investigations.
The overall aim of this study was to validate a semi-automated extraction method for mitochondrial DNA analysis of telogenic dog hairs.
Extracted DNA was amplified with a 95% success rate from 43 samples using two new experimental designs in which the mitochondrial control region was amplified as a single large (±1260 bp) amplicon or as two individual amplicons (HV1 and HV2; ±650 and 350 bp) with tailed-primers.
The results prove that the extraction of dog hair mitochondrial DNA can easily be automated to provide sufficient DNA yield for the amplification of a forensically useful long mitochondrial DNA fragment or alternatively two short fragments with minimal loss of sequence in case of degraded samples. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497311000858
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Hewlett’s criminal record was just as horrific, we had stories from friends and he wasn’t far from PDL on the 3rd of May yet he had no part in Madeleine’s disappearance. Brueckner could be another Hewlett.
There is no concrete evidence or the German police would have charged him.
How do we know Hewlett wasn't involved? He was never thoroughly investigated re MM and thus not exonerated.
There's certainly a very good chance he knew CB imo. Hewlett too was an itinerant convicted criminal roaming around the Algarve (including PdL itself) and Morocco, had German connections and was involved in drug dealing. It would be strange if he and CB didn't know each other really. Not that that makes either guilty of abducting MM. But the parallels are interesting nonetheless.
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How do we know Hewlett wasn't involved? He was never thoroughly investigated re MM and thus not exonerated.
There's certainly a very good chance he knew CB imo. Hewlett too was an itinerant convicted criminal roaming around the Algarve (including PdL itself) and Morocco, had German connections and was involved in drug dealing. It would be strange if he and CB didn't know each other really. Not that that makes either guilty of abducting MM. But the parallels are interesting nonetheless.
Didn't Hewlett claim, before he died, that he knew who took Madeleine ?
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Didn't Hewlett claim, before he died, that he knew who took Madeleine ?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1191094/Paedophile-Raymond-Hewlett-admits-I-saw-Madeleine-McCann-twice-disappeared.html
He certainly claimed to know who she was - according to German police.
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If one of Brückner’s dog’s hairs was found in Apartment 5a how would that be explained away?
Do you think that dog's still around?
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https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/madeleine-mccann-news-son-of-dead-paedophile-suspect-raymond-hewlett-thought-he-was-being-watched_uk_584e8adfe4b0b7ff851d56ca?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANQqBGSxa4o7aEepFgVFTpjDCVTkwKcgWxag7GtW4wHfQF-AWvEQSZFPTCiBrV-1q3lXKmy83IQUlC8ZHfNEXWoAtdMjI3FeXtss8waSA6wkN[Name removed]6rom6_Ik2OCiGC73FH7wVeyuAjSDBNhwOgOBZDLw1nlqMzy83_eYw6q-II3RE
By the way, Hewlett and his son have been discussed extensively on the forum as I recall. A few years back now.
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Didn't Hewlett claim, before he died, that he knew who took Madeleine ?
According to his son, yes. It was a bit nebulous though. The son claimed to have been in posession of a deathbed letter from H which claimed that M was snatched by a gang. The letter never materialised however.
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How do we know Hewlett wasn't involved? He was never thoroughly investigated re MM and thus not exonerated.
There's certainly a very good chance he knew CB imo. Hewlett too was an itinerant convicted criminal roaming around the Algarve (including PdL itself) and Morocco, had German connections and was involved in drug dealing. It would be strange if he and CB didn't know each other really. Not that that makes either guilty of abducting MM. But the parallels are interesting nonetheless.
Hewlett's partner Marianne Schmuecker was German.
Hewlett was a person of interest to the McCann detectives but apparently of no interest to the Portuguese despite his record and his admission to seeing Madeleine.
Snip
Mr Edgar says: 'From the information I've seen, he wouldn't be at the top of our list, but he is definitely of interest to us and we need to eliminate him.' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189597/Portrait-paedophile-So-did-Raymond-Hewlett-snatch-Maddie.html
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According to his son, yes. It was a bit nebulous though. The son claimed to have been in posession of a deathbed letter from H which claimed that M was snatched by a gang. The letter never materialised however.
I believe he claimed to have burned it.
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Hewlett's partner Marianne Schmuecker was German.
Hewlett was a person of interest to the McCann detectives but apparently of no interest to the Portuguese despite his record and his admission to seeing Madeleine.
Snip
Mr Edgar says: 'From the information I've seen, he wouldn't be at the top of our list, but he is definitely of interest to us and we need to eliminate him.' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189597/Portrait-paedophile-So-did-Raymond-Hewlett-snatch-Maddie.html
All interesting, yes.
Marianne was German, yes, and Hewlett died in Germany after his unsucessful cancer treatment there.
What a litany in that article.
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I believe he claimed to have burned it.
Oh yes, I remember now.
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Do you think that dog's still around?
Probably not, why do you ask?
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Probably not, why do you ask?
Without the dog's hair, how can it be proved that any of the dog hairs found in 5A belonged to it?
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Without the dog's hair, how can it be proved that any of the dog hairs found in 5A belonged to it?
You don’t need a living dog to prove that a dog hair found at the scene of a crime links to a dog owned by a suspect, in whose home, or camper van, or clothes or boneyard full of dog corpses similar hairs are found.
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How do we know Hewlett wasn't involved? He was never thoroughly investigated re MM and thus not exonerated.
There's certainly a very good chance he knew CB imo. Hewlett too was an itinerant convicted criminal roaming around the Algarve (including PdL itself) and Morocco, had German connections and was involved in drug dealing. It would be strange if he and CB didn't know each other really. Not that that makes either guilty of abducting MM. But the parallels are interesting nonetheless.
Were you investigated ? No ? Then by your own argument you are a suspect too...and me.
Hewlett was never officially investigated because there was nothing to link him to Madeleine’s disappearance. Only the parent’s private detectives suggested that he may have been involved and goodness knows what agenda they were working towards.
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Do you think that dog's still around?
If you look at my post, you’ll see that I was referring to dog hair - not an actual dog - on Brückner’s clothing and perhaps other belongings that can be compared to what was found in apartment 5A.
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I always assumed the canine hairs mentioned in the forensic report belonged to the GNR dogs. It never occurred to me some could have been carried in on the clothes of an intruder. Of course they could!
Well thought through, Anthro.
Hi Brietta, I also think it is possible that hair samples etc were removed, as forensic evidence, before the GNR dogs were taken to the apartment?
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Hi Brietta, I also think it is possible that hair samples etc were removed, as forensic evidence, before the GNR dogs were taken to the apartment?
No. The first to arrive at 5A were the GNR. The other came later.
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Were you investigated ? No ? Then by your own argument you are a suspect too...and me.
Hewlett was never officially investigated because there was nothing to link him to Madeleine’s disappearance. Only the parent’s private detectives suggested that he may have been involved and goodness knows what agenda they were working towards.
It's very different. Neither you nor I have been subject to police interest or named in the media as possibly being involved in or having knowledge of a crime. If there's nothing to investigate there's nothing to exonerate.
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If you look at my post, you’ll see that I was referring to dog hair - not an actual dog - on Brückner’s clothing and perhaps other belongings that can be compared to what was found in apartment 5A.
I think it's unlikely after 13 years.
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It's very different. Neither you nor I have been subject to police interest or named in the media as possibly being involved in or having knowledge of a crime. If there's nothing to investigate there's nothing to exonerate.
I was under the impression that all known paedophiles in the Luz area had been investigated. Including Hewlett who made no secret of being in the area, which he knew very well, at the time.
I think he even boasted of seeing and being close to Madeleine on at least one occasion,
Apparently I was wrong if Hewlett and Brueckner are anything to go by and I wonder who else with a similar profile, might have been studiously ignored by the Judicial Police.
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I was under the impression that all known paedophiles in the Luz area had been investigated. Including Hewlett who made no secret of being in the area, which he knew very well, at the time.
I think he even boasted of seeing and being close to Madeleine on at least one occasion,
Apparently I was wrong if Hewlett and Brueckner are anything to go by and I wonder who else with a similar profile, might have been studiously ignored by the Judicial Police.
The answer lies in what you have written; "known paedophiles". CB may have been known, but was he known as a paedophile?
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The answer lies in what you have written; "known paedophiles". CB may have been known, but was he known as a paedophile?
According to Amaral he was, I thought? Why did they go knock on his door?
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The answer lies in what you have written; "known paedophiles". CB may have been known, but was he known as a paedophile?
He is now.
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According to Amaral he was, I thought? Why did they go knock on his door?
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades from when he abused girl, six, in playground PROVE that Portuguese police knew about his past but still dismissed him as a suspect- Pictures were from Algarve in 1999 - eight years before Madeleine went missing
- Christian Brueckner, then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be jailed
- Brueckner had sexually assaulted a six-year-old girl in a playground back in 1994
- The drifter served a two-year sentence before returning to village by Praia da Luz
- The pictures are further evidence of the failings of the initial police investigation
By NICK FAGGE IN WURZBURG, GERMANY, FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 09:27, 19 July 2020 | UPDATED: 10:37, 19 July 2020
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades prove Portuguese police knew about his sordid past but still dismissed him as a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html
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Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades from when he abused girl, six, in playground PROVE that Portuguese police knew about his past but still dismissed him as a suspect- Pictures were from Algarve in 1999 - eight years before Madeleine went missing
- Christian Brueckner, then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be jailed
- Brueckner had sexually assaulted a six-year-old girl in a playground back in 1994
- The drifter served a two-year sentence before returning to village by Praia da Luz
- The pictures are further evidence of the failings of the initial police investigation
By NICK FAGGE IN WURZBURG, GERMANY, FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 09:27, 19 July 2020 | UPDATED: 10:37, 19 July 2020
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades prove Portuguese police knew about his sordid past but still dismissed him as a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html
There really isn't much more that can be said about The Portuguese Police Investigation.
Thirteen years ago there could well have been a chance. Now? No chance.
I don't know if he is guilty or not. But it doesn't half go to show that Portugal was indeed a Pedophile Paradise.
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According to Amaral he was, I thought? Why did they go knock on his door?
He didn't have a door, so Amaral is probably mistaken imo.
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Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades from when he abused girl, six, in playground PROVE that Portuguese police knew about his past but still dismissed him as a suspect- Pictures were from Algarve in 1999 - eight years before Madeleine went missing
- Christian Brueckner, then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be jailed
- Brueckner had sexually assaulted a six-year-old girl in a playground back in 1994
- The drifter served a two-year sentence before returning to village by Praia da Luz
- The pictures are further evidence of the failings of the initial police investigation
By NICK FAGGE IN WURZBURG, GERMANY, FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 09:27, 19 July 2020 | UPDATED: 10:37, 19 July 2020
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades prove Portuguese police knew about his sordid past but still dismissed him as a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html
I think I already posted about that: they appear to have been taken in Faro.
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Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades from when he abused girl, six, in playground PROVE that Portuguese police knew about his past but still dismissed him as a suspect- Pictures were from Algarve in 1999 - eight years before Madeleine went missing
- Christian Brueckner, then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be jailed
- Brueckner had sexually assaulted a six-year-old girl in a playground back in 1994
- The drifter served a two-year sentence before returning to village by Praia da Luz
- The pictures are further evidence of the failings of the initial police investigation
By NICK FAGGE IN WURZBURG, GERMANY, FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 09:27, 19 July 2020 | UPDATED: 10:37, 19 July 2020
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades prove Portuguese police knew about his sordid past but still dismissed him as a suspect.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html
Without knowing how records were kept and accessed in those days it's a bit of an exaggeration to claim to have proved something imo.
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Without knowing how records were kept and accessed in those days it's a bit of an exaggeration to claim to have proved something imo.
Possibly, but then there's also his mugshot from 2006 over the diesel saga.
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It's very different. Neither you nor I have been subject to police interest or named in the media as possibly being involved in or having knowledge of a crime. If there's nothing to investigate there's nothing to exonerate.
Was Hewlett ever been of interest to the official investigating police ? I don’t remember him ever being questioned. AFAIAA it his name was leaked to the media by the parent’s pretendy police.
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I was under the impression that all known paedophiles in the Luz area had been investigated. Including Hewlett who made no secret of being in the area, which he knew very well, at the time.
I think he even boasted of seeing and being close to Madeleine on at least one occasion,
Apparently I was wrong if Hewlett and Brueckner are anything to go by and I wonder who else with a similar profile, might have been studiously ignored by the Judicial Police.
Yes, Hewlett claimed to have got so close to Maddie that he could see her eye defect.
So I think we can safely write his claims off as total BS.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1191094/Paedophile-Raymond-Hewlett-admits-I-saw-Madeleine-McCann-twice-disappeared.html
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He didn't have a door, so Amaral is probably mistaken imo.
According to what I've been able to glean from Sandra's report (thanks Myster), police did go to check on 10 May 2008 at Sitio dos Lages (not sure whether that's the location of the house near PdL with the yellow frames, or some camping site in the vicinity) and discovered that he had no belongings there and hadn't been seen there for 2 years.
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According to what I've been able to glean from Sandra's report (thanks Myster), police did go to check on 10 May 2008 at Sitio dos Lages (not sure whether that's the location of the house near PdL with the yellow frames, or some camping site in the vicinity) and discovered that he had no belongings there and hadn't been seen there for 2 years.
It was two years earlier when he left the first house in Monte Judeu, wasn't it?
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/05/21/29257294-8393151-Brueckner_had_lived_in_this_remote_villa_overlooking_Praia_da_Lu-a-12_1591389231613.jpg)
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I think it's unlikely after 13 years.
A single hair was enough to convict Brückner of the rape and abuse of the American tourist, Diana M in 2005 at Casa Jacaranda. According to the forensic report 257 hairs were found in 5A of which 12 were non-human. Why do you think it is unlikely after 13 years?
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It was two years earlier when he left the first house in Monte Judeu, wasn't it?
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/05/21/29257294-8393151-Brueckner_had_lived_in_this_remote_villa_overlooking_Praia_da_Lu-a-12_1591389231613.jpg)
That's what I'd thought as well, but I'm not sure now. News reports are confusing as to which they mean. Perhaps they're not sure, either. He seems to have been playing a cat and mouse game.
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Surely, what was sauce for The Goose is sauce for The Gander. Not that I think that anyone on this Forum could solve this.
But.
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He didn't have a door, so Amaral is probably mistaken imo.
or lying.
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That's what I'd thought as well, but I'm not sure now. News reports are confusing as to which they mean. Perhaps they're not sure, either. He seems to have been playing a cat and mouse game.
Why did the police want to speak to him in May 2008?
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A single hair was enough to convict Brückner of the rape and abuse of the American tourist, Diana M in 2005 at Casa Jacaranda. According to the forensic report 257 hairs were found in 5A of which 12 were non-human. Why do you think it is unlikely after 13 years?
They would need to find a dog hair somewhere to match one of those 12 (is that 'many'?). You may think that's possible after 13 years, I don't.
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Why did the police want to speak to him in May 2008?
Because he was a Paedophile?
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Because he was a Paedophile?
A word which is bandied about just like psychopath is, with little regard for it's precise meaning imo.
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A word which is bandied about just like psychopath is, with little regard for it's precise meaning imo.
Oh Dear God. Words fail me. So what do you think Paedophile means?
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Oh Dear God. Words fail me. So what do you think Paedophile means?
CB has convictions for child sexual abuse, but that doesn't mean he's a paedophile.
although some people who commit child sexual abuse are pedophiles, child sexual abuse offenders are not pedophiles unless they have a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
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CB has convictions for child sexual abuse, but that doesn't mean he's a paedophile.
although some people who commit child sexual abuse are pedophiles, child sexual abuse offenders are not pedophiles unless they have a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Ah, I see. Any old Sexual Abuse will do so long as one doesn't put a name to it, even when one sexually abuses a six year old girl child.
What do you call Rape of a 72 year old woman?
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A word which is bandied about just like psychopath is, with little regard for it's precise meaning imo.
Unimportant as far as reasons why the police would want to speak to him in 2008, he had been convicted of sex crimes against children, so call it what you want but let’s not mince words - again!!
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Ah, I see. Any old Sexual Abuse will do so long as one doesn't put a name to it, even when one sexually abuses a six year old girl child.
What do you call Rape of a 72 year old woman?
Gerontophilia I believe.
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It seems there is a school of thought prevalent on the internet that no matter the heinous perversion of your known crimes they will be considered excusable if it is suspected that Madeleine McCann might have suffered at those same hands.
It seems she is considered not worthy of having an investigation carried out into crimes against her and all credible suspected perpetrators are by definition considered 'innocent' by default.
In my opinion there is something seriously wrong with a mindset that singles out this little girl to be deprived of her rights when fuelled by hatred of her parents.
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Ah, I see. Any old Sexual Abuse will do so long as one doesn't put a name to it, even when one sexually abuses a six year old girl child.
What do you call Rape of a 72 year old woman?
Nothing to do with paedophilia.
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It seems there is a school of thought prevalent on the internet that no matter the heinous perversion of your known crimes they will be considered excusable if it is suspected that Madeleine McCann might have suffered at those same hands.
It seems she is considered not worthy of having an investigation carried out into crimes against her and all credible suspected perpetrators are by definition considered 'innocent' by default.
In my opinion there is something seriously wrong with a mindset that singles out this little girl to be deprived of her rights when fuelled by hatred of her parents.
I think there's a school of thought (thankfully rare) who's only raison d'etre is to protect and support Madeleine McCanns parents at all costs.
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I think there's a school of thought (thankfully rare) who's only raison d'etre is to protect and support Madeleine McCanns parents at all costs.
Gosh what evil people they must be.
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Gosh what evil people they must be.
I don't believe in such a thing as evil. I find some of their methods unpleasant; questioning the morality, intelligence and motives of those who don't agree with them, for example. On the other hand it demonstrates how nasty those who think they occupy the moral high ground can be imo.
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I think there's a school of thought (thankfully rare) who's only raison d'etre is to protect and support Madeleine McCanns parents at all costs.
I think that's quite a barmy idea and shows how little you understand the motivation of some poster here.
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Gerontophilia I believe.
Also paraphilia.
DSM-5 describes 8 of the more commonly observed paraphilic disorders:
Voyeuristic disorder.
Exhibitionistic disorder.
Frotteuristic disorder.
Sexual masochism disorder.
Sexual sadism disorder.
Pedophilic disorder.
Fetishistic disorder.
Transvestic disorder.
Jun 17, 2020
https://emedicine.medscape.com ›
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Nothing to do with paedophilia.
So why did he have those swimsuits belonging to children? Plus all those photo's?
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Perhaps gunit thinks CB might sue for being called a
Paedophile
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Ah, I see. Any old Sexual Abuse will do so long as one doesn't put a name to it, even when one sexually abuses a six year old girl child.
What do you call Rape of a 72 year old woman?
Does a man question a woman’s age before he commits a non consensual act ?
Some women 7O+ can look 20 yrs younger than what their birth certificates states?
I think there’s a childish element remaining in Brueckner’s personality. ..
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Does a man question a woman’s age before he commits a non consensual act ?
Some women 7O+ can look 20 yrs younger than what their birth certificates states?
I think there’s a childish element remaining in Brueckner’s personality. ..
Only if they’re Raquel Welch IMO.
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Does a man question a woman’s age before he commits a non consensual act ?
Some women 7O+ can look 20 yrs younger than what their birth certificates states?
I think there’s a childish element remaining in Brueckner’s personality. ..
This was a very violent rape
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Does a man question a woman’s age before he commits a non consensual act ?
Some women 7O+ can look 20 yrs younger than what their birth certificates states?
I think there’s a childish element remaining in Brueckner’s personality. ..
I'm not sure what you are saying here? Are you justifying Bruekner's rape of the older woman because she may have looked younger than her age?
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This was a very violent rape
I think it was probably a life changing experience for Brueckner's victim whose chronological age probably had twenty years added to it as a result.
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I'm not sure what you are saying here? Are you justifying Bruekner's rape of the older woman because she may have looked younger than her age?
No. It was a response to Eleanor who was emphasising the victim’s age , as if it mattered ,when it’s extremely unlikely age comes into the rapist’s mind , as in “ better not ,this woman looks old enough to be my mother”
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I don't believe in such a thing as evil. I find some of their methods unpleasant; questioning the morality, intelligence and motives of those who don't agree with them, for example. On the other hand it demonstrates how nasty those who think they occupy the moral high ground can be imo.
I do believe some people commit evil or cruel acts and I don’t see anything wrong with questioning their morality and motives. You have not exactly been backwards in coming forwards when it comes to questioning the morality, intelligence or motives of those who leave their children unattended to go out to dinner, for example, Does that mean you consider yourself nasty? Somehow I doubt it!
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No. It was a response to Eleanor who was emphasising the victim’s age , as if it mattered ,when it’s extremely unlikely age comes into the rapist’s mind , as in “ better not ,this woman looks old enough to be my mother”
Rape is often nothing about sexual attraction and everything about exerting power and control over those who you resent and /or hate.
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I do believe some people commit evil or cruel acts and I don’t see anything wrong with questioning their morality and motives. You have not exactly been backwards in coming forwards when it comes to questioning the morality, intelligence or motives of those who leave their children unattended to go out to dinner, for example, Does that mean you consider yourself nasty? Somehow I doubt it!
Evil behaviour yes. Evil people no. Questioning a mindset which thinks children are safe being left home alone yes. Accusing those who disagree with one's opinions of being less intelligent than oneself no.
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Rape is often nothing about sexual attraction and everything about exerting power and control over those who you resent and /or hate.
You think I don’t know that ?You don’t think perhaps this victim represented someone resented/hated by Bruekner?
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Evil behaviour yes. Evil people no. Questioning a mindset which thinks children are safe being left home alone yes. Accusing those who disagree with one's opinions of being less intelligent than oneself no.
Personally I have never said it would be safe to leave children as the mcCanns did and i wouldnt do it. My main fear would be abduction. In my experience I have found that more intelligent people support the McCannns and the lesser inteligent doubt them...thats just my personal experience
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Evil behaviour yes. Evil people no. Questioning a mindset which thinks children are safe being left home alone yes. Accusing those who disagree with one's opinions of being less intelligent than oneself no.
Although this has been debated extensively here, I maintain that the McCann’s and the rest of the group’s decision, and criticism thereof, to use a checking/listening method to tend to their children sleeping some 50 m away, has not taken into consideration the context in which it occurred. The spatial dimension is subjective. Their children were in close proximity to where they were dining within the same establishment.
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Although this has been debated extensively here, I maintain that the McCann’s and the rest of the group’s decision, and criticism thereof, to use a checking/listening method to tend to their children sleeping some 50 m away, has not taken into consideration the context in which it occurred. The spatial dimension is subjective. Their children were in close proximity to where they were dining within the same establishment.
The children were not under the care and protection of their parents, they were at risk.
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Would the McCanns have gone out & left their wallets in an unlocked apartment?
I doubt it.
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The children were not under the care and protection of their parents, they were at risk.
they were...and as the prime suspect is CB...it seems that risk was abduction
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The children were not under the care and protection of their parents, they were at risk.
Only in hindsight.
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The children were not under the care and protection of their parents, they were at risk.
I am trying to grasp what you are insinuating. Should children be at all times under the care and protection of their parents, to be not at risk?
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I have said for several years that based on the evidence abduction by a stranger is the most likeky scenario...and now thats what the investigation seems to believe. Some posters just can't accept reality imo.
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I am trying to grasp what you are insinuating. Should children be at all times under the care and protection of their parents, to be not at risk?
Small children should be under the care and protection of someone at all times. If they cry someone should come. If they fall someone should pick them up. If they're sick someone must clean up and make them comfortable. It's common sense really.
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Small children should be under the care and protection of someone at all times. If they cry someone should come. If they fall someone should pick them up. If they're sick someone must clean up and make them comfortable. It's common sense really.
To a certain extent I agree...but there are probably thousands of children in the UK that are denied all those and come to no harm
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Evil behaviour yes. Evil people no. Questioning a mindset which thinks children are safe being left home alone yes. Accusing those who disagree with one's opinions of being less intelligent than oneself no.
Who has done that? Not me.
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You think I don’t know that ?You don’t think perhaps this victim represented someone resented/hated by Bruekner?
I’ve no idea what you know or what was going on in the rapist’s mind when he raped the old woman.
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I’ve no idea what you know or what was going on in the rapist’s mind when he raped the old woman.
Are you deliberately being offensive regarding the female sex ? Did anyone, apart from yourself of course, describe the victim as an old woman ?
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Are you deliberately being offensive regarding the female sex ? Did anyone, apart from yourself of course, describe the victim as an old woman ?
What on EARTH are you on about? How am I being offensive by accurately referring to a 72 year old woman as old?
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German police have found at least 100 pictures featuring Brückner re. memory sticks found at his property.
https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/maddie-mccann-loesen-maedchen-badeanzuege-im-wohnmobil-von-christian-b-den-fall-71318406.bild.html
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German police have found at least 100 pictures featuring Brückner re. memory sticks found at his property.
https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/maddie-mccann-loesen-maedchen-badeanzuege-im-wohnmobil-von-christian-b-den-fall-71318406.bild.html
It makes me wonder whether any of the images feature the place recently searched . Its hard to beleive the german police would commit 100 officers based on nothing.....and it sems search only this one place. HCW has said he has concrete evidence maddie is dead and Breukner killed her. Some posters want to believe the Germans have nothing.....I think there is going to be a lot of egg on peoples faces.
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It makes me wonder whether any of the images feature the place recently searched . Its hard to beleive the german police would commit 100 officers based on nothing.....and it sems search only this one place. HCW has said he has concrete evidence maddie is dead and Breukner killed her. Some posters want to believe the Germans have nothing.....I think there is going to be a lot of egg on peoples faces.
Old news wrapped up as new news fro clickbait purposes. Congrats, they hooked you in.
Clickety click.
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Old news wrapped up as new news fro clickbait purposes. Congrats, they hooked you in.
Clickety click.
100 officers...clickbait...fried or scrambled
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Old news wrapped up as new news fro clickbait purposes. Congrats, they hooked you in.
Clickety click.
Old news dated 17.6.20
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Should we even be discussing what was found? Sounds like libel to me. CB who?
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No charges yet then, won't be long now.
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Should we even be discussing what was found? Sounds like libel to me. CB who?
Pertinent point,where did the info come from during a live investigation according to the Germans into the murder of Madeleine Mccann.
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No charges yet then, won't be long now.
how long do you think it will take to carefuly examine and analyse what was removed from the allotmnet site. HCW has gone on holiday... some say for 3 weeks..it could take a couple of months.
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how long do you think it will take to carefuly examine and analyse what was removed from the allotmnet site. HCW has gone on holiday... some say for 3 weeks..it could take a couple of months.
Nothing takes very long.
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My thoughts are that the geran police understand their own privacy laws and it would therefore suggest they do have something concrete on CB and felt comfortable releasing information that has allowed him to be identified.
posters here have claimed amarals statements are not libellous because they simply tell the opinion of the police investigation at the time.....isnt that what all the statements re CB are.
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Nothing takes very long.
are you an expert on forensis analysis now....how much material do they have?
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It makes me wonder whether any of the images feature the place recently searched . Its hard to beleive the german police would commit 100 officers based on nothing.....and it sems search only this one place. HCW has said he has concrete evidence maddie is dead and Breukner killed her. Some posters want to believe the Germans have nothing.....I think there is going to be a lot of egg on peoples faces.
Snip
Together with the items of clothing found, the storage media found on the property are said to be a heavy burden on Christian B. The investigators found his dead dog in a pit - and underneath it was a Lidl plastic bag with six USB sticks and two memory cards, full of pictures and videos of serious abuse.
"Spiegel TV" quotes gruesome details from a note from the Saxony-Anhalt North Police Department: 8,000 files were viewed, of which "most [...] contain abuse of infants, toddlers, children and adolescents". Christian B. can also be seen in around 100 pictures.
According to the note, the metadata of some files also match a Casio digital camera found at B.
https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/maddie-mccann-loesen-maedchen-badeanzuege-im-wohnmobil-von-christian-b-den-fall-71318406.bild.html
If Brueckner isn't responsible for Madeleine McCann's abduction he certainly appears to have at least one hundred questions to answer some of which will probably feature the Casio digital camera and files with matching metadata.
In my opinion Brueckner will be charged when the Germans are good and ready to do so.
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Snip
Together with the items of clothing found, the storage media found on the property are said to be a heavy burden on Christian B. The investigators found his dead dog in a pit - and underneath it was a Lidl plastic bag with six USB sticks and two memory cards, full of pictures and videos of serious abuse.
"Spiegel TV" quotes gruesome details from a note from the Saxony-Anhalt North Police Department: 8,000 files were viewed, of which "most [...] contain abuse of infants, toddlers, children and adolescents". Christian B. can also be seen in around 100 pictures.
According to the note, the metadata of some files also match a Casio digital camera found at B.
https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/maddie-mccann-loesen-maedchen-badeanzuege-im-wohnmobil-von-christian-b-den-fall-71318406.bild.html
If Brueckner isn't responsible for Madeleine McCann's abduction he certainly appears to have at least one hundred questions to answer some of which will probably feature the Casio digital camera and files with matching metadata.
In my opinion Brueckner will be charged when the Germans are good and ready to do so.
I agree. What's interesting in this article is that some of the images can be shown to have been taken with a camera found at the same site
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Nothing takes very long.
It has been said Brueckner is a devotee of the dark web. From reading about it any investigation into it is a very long and convoluted affair and as soon as investigators crack one aspect the perpetrators set up another better encrypted one and so on.
However there is an example here for German prosecutors who may wish to keep someone like this off the streets,
Snip
The "exceptional gravity of the case", led to prosecutors asking the judge to consider a discretionary life sentence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-43005287
It didn't happen but twenty odd years is quite a tariff.
Bruckner too was into filming the humiliation of his victims. He did it in person not remotely as Matthew Falder did, so that must count for something.
Snip
He did not actually meet or physically touch any of his victims; all of his crimes were committed using the dark web.
___________________________________________________
In addition to the National Crime Agency (NCA), the investigation to uncover his identity involved GCHQ, US Homeland Security, Europol, Australian Federal Police, New Zealand Police, and the Israel Police;[25][8] it lasted four years.[26] Will Kerr of the NCA feels tech companies gave less than ideal cooperation with the police during the enquiry. Kerr maintains accounts were closed down possibly preventing police identifying other victims and identifying patterns of offending. Kerr fears this may have delayed identifying offenders and Kerr wants government action to make tech companies cooperate better in future.
___________________________________________________
On 16 October 2018, the Court of Appeal reduced the term of imprisonment to 25 years, with an extended licence of 8 years.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Falder#:~:text=Making%20indecent%20images%20of%20children%20etc.&text=Falder%20pleaded%20guilty%20to%20137,six%20years%20on%20extended%20licence.
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Nothing takes very long.
Only 13 years and counting...
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Snip
Together with the items of clothing found, the storage media found on the property are said to be a heavy burden on Christian B. The investigators found his dead dog in a pit - and underneath it was a Lidl plastic bag with six USB sticks and two memory cards, full of pictures and videos of serious abuse.
"Spiegel TV" quotes gruesome details from a note from the Saxony-Anhalt North Police Department: 8,000 files were viewed, of which "most [...] contain abuse of infants, toddlers, children and adolescents". Christian B. can also be seen in around 100 pictures.
According to the note, the metadata of some files also match a Casio digital camera found at B.
https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/maddie-mccann-loesen-maedchen-badeanzuege-im-wohnmobil-von-christian-b-den-fall-71318406.bild.html
If Brueckner isn't responsible for Madeleine McCann's abduction he certainly appears to have at least one hundred questions to answer some of which will probably feature the Casio digital camera and files with matching metadata.
In my opinion Brueckner will be charged when the Germans are good and ready to do so.
The legend has become fact,print the legend.
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The legend has become fact,print the legend.
What precisely do you mean by that? At the moment I am taking it as an offensively gratuitous comment. Am I right in thinking that.
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The "legend" is that the german is somehow involved in the disappearance of Madeleine and has become fact, those that follow that line print the legend.
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The "legend" is that the german is somehow involved in the disappearance of Madeleine and has become fact, those that follow that line print the legend.
We are not discussing Liberty Valance here ... we are discussing Brueckner.
Brueckner is a paedophile with firm connections to Luz who was overlooked by the Portuguese police in 2007 but who is at the moment the German police's chief suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Not "legend" but "fact" to which I recognise some people are resistant ~ but established fact nonetheless. My opinion of the context of its use has not changed in the slightest except for the addition of puerile.
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We are not discussing Liberty Valance here ... we are discussing Brueckner.
Brueckner is a paedophile with firm connections to Luz who was overlooked by the Portuguese police in 2007 but who is at the moment the German police's chief suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Not "legend" but "fact" to which I recognise some people are resistant ~ but established fact nonetheless. My opinion of the context of its use has not changed in the slightest except for the addition of puerile.
The legend is he is somehow involved in the alleged abducted of Madeleine, John correctly pointed out yesterday there is no evidence he is involved it's all speculation much as the same with the three amigos back in 2014 when you declared the genie was out the bottle, must have got put back in.
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The legend is he is somehow involved in the alleged abducted of Madeleine, John correctly pointed out yesterday there is no evidence he is involved it's all speculation much as the same with the three amigos back in 2014 when you declared the genie was out the bottle, must have got put back in.
HCW said they have concrete evidence Maddie is dead and CB killed her. John doesnt know w hat evidence the Germans have.
We've had years of poster saying that a burglar would not abduct achild and now we ahve a suspect with ahistory of burglary and paedophilia.
Do you really think the Germans have no evidence?
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HCW said they have concrete evidence Maddie is dead and CB killed her. John doesnt know w hat evidence the Germans have.
We've had years of poster saying that a burglar would not abduct achild and now we ahve a suspect with ahistory of burglary and paedophilia.
Do you really think the Germans have no evidence?
What you don't know is if they actually have evidence at all.
You say John doesn't know what evidence they have ..you don't know either ..it may be nothing.
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What you don't know is if they actually have evidence at all.
You say John doesn't know what evidence they have ..you don't know either ..it may be nothing.
I've said why I believe they have evidence . I think anyone who thinks they have nothing is in denial.
We will find out soon enough
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HCW said they have concrete evidence Maddie is dead and CB killed her. John doesnt know w hat evidence the Germans have.
We've had years of poster saying that a burglar would not abduct achild and now we ahve a suspect with ahistory of burglary and paedophilia.
Do you really think the Germans have no evidence?
If they had concrete evidence that Madeleine was dead and Brueckner had killed her they would have charged him. They haven’t even arrested him for the crime. The excuse that they aren’t charging him because they don’t want him to have access to the evidence they have on him is simply ridiculous. If that was the case then no one would ever be charged.
The appeal was the last roll of the dice for the German police and as they have yet to charge Brueckner it would appear that they have, yet again, come up empty handed.
I think the German police may have a flimsy, circumstantial case against Brueckner but they know that without more substantial proof of his involvement he would never be convicted. That is why the appeal.
As to your last sentence we still don’t know whether a burglar did abduct anyone, let alone Madeleine and while I think we can all agree that Brueckner is an odious creature he has no history of abduction.
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I've said why I believe they have evidence . I think anyone who thinks they have nothing is in denial.
We will find out soon enough
Im not in denial.
Im not grasping at straws either.
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
Back to the opening a post a good month ago, two months since the Germans claimed they had hard evidence that their suspect killed Madeleine, still no charges so does that make it more likely they can't find enough or at all to bring charges.
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Back to the opening a post a good month ago, two months since the Germans claimed they had hard evidence that their suspect killed Madeleine, still no charges so does that make it more likely they can't find enough or at all to bring charges.
They need more than hard evidence....they need proof
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They need more than hard evidence....they need proof
Yep, which is in short supply.
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Back to the opening a post a good month ago, two months since the Germans claimed they had hard evidence that their suspect killed Madeleine, still no charges so does that make it more likely they can't find enough or at all to bring charges.
I wonder if das funfzig followed this supposed letter (that may or may not have been sent) to the parents (that they may or may not have received) with another (assuming there was a first) disclosing this 'concrete evidence' they had in their possession?
Discussion may be going on behind the scenes, although not according to Mitchell (who looked like he'd been sleeping in a hedge during lock down), that perhaps this apparent breakthrough is of so little interest to them that they dismissed it out of hand?
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I wonder if das funfzig followed this supposed letter (that may or may not have been sent) to the parents (that they may or may not have received) with another (assuming there was a first) disclosing this 'concrete evidence' they had in their possession?
Discussion may be going on behind the scenes, although not according to Mitchell (who looked like he'd been sleeping in a hedge during lock down), that perhaps this apparent breakthrough is of so little interest to them that they dismissed it out of hand?
Or maybe being kept out of the loop so feigning indifference.
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I wonder if das funfzig followed this supposed letter (that may or may not have been sent) to the parents (that they may or may not have received) with another (assuming there was a first) disclosing this 'concrete evidence' they had in their possession?
Discussion may be going on behind the scenes, although not according to Mitchell (who looked like he'd been sleeping in a hedge during lock down), that perhaps this apparent breakthrough is of so little interest to them that they dismissed it out of hand?
There was no letter explaining the concrete evidence to the parents.
I seem to remember you claiming the rape charge wouldnt stick and contradicting me when I said it might well do....looks like another trip down the M6 is necessary
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Strong or concrete evidence isnt proof so isnt enough to convict.....so all those saying the Germans have nothing might want to have another think.
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Strong or concrete evidence isnt proof so isnt enough to convict.....so all those saying the Germans have nothing might want to have another think.
Why
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Why
simply because some posters including yourself think conrete evidence is enough to convict....it isnt.....proof is needed. You and others have then decided as HCW hasnt charged CB they must have nothing...that is not true
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simply because som eposters including yourself think conrete evidence is enough to convict....it isnt.....proof is needed. You and others have then decided as HCW hasnt charged CB they must have nothing...that is not true
simply because som eposters including yourself think conrete evidence is enough to convict....it isnt.
I have never said it was. IMO it s you who always mention the concrete evidence.as though that would be enough
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simply because som eposters including yourself think conrete evidence is enough to convict....it isnt.
I have never said it was. IMO it s you who always mention the concrete evidence.as though that would be enough
youre totally mistaken...the Germans have said they have concrete evidence...some posters want to believe they have nothing...
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There was no letter explaining the concrete evidence to the parents.
I seem to remember you claiming the rape charge wouldnt stick and contradicting me when I said it might well do....looks like another trip down the M6 is necessary
'Read the post carefully', etc (channelling you there).
I said I'm no legal expert, but if it's upheld I still doubt he would be released, so a retrial as a minimum.
And I also said that the challenge / appeal was valid as a technical aspect of law - which was also proven to be correct.
So I suggest you do something and go there and do 'X' when you arrive at said place, etc.
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youre totally mistaken...the Germans have said they have concrete evidence...some posters want to believe they have nothing...
Seems like your playing silly games here ...no wonder no one takes you seriously.
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your post....
Yes. As you know, I'm no legal expert, but his case looks pretty cut and dried in terms of the technical legal point being present
That's exactly what I just reiterated. The legal challenge was correct, but he can still be tried for the rape.
Now stop shouting in bold.
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Strong or concrete evidence isnt proof so isnt enough to convict.....so all those saying the Germans have nothing might want to have another think.
I think at some point 'concrete evidence' is de facto proof. I mean how much more robust does evidence get 'titanium', or 'diamond' perhaps?
Or is there a chart:
Gaseous liquids - Get out. Now!
Paper napkin - flimsy
Racy swimsuit - threadbare
Chipboard - meh, alright, I suppose
Bitumen - it's good, but it's not right.
MDF - OK, so tell me more
Teak sideboard - right, keep digging
Shed 10 carbon steel pipework - now we're talkin'
Concrete - Get me a goddam search warrant and the producer of Crimewatch on the blower!
Titanium - Yeh baby!
Diamond - Singularity Succesfully Achieved - Ascend to Xenu to Meet the Galactic Overlord.
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European court of justice advises Madeleine McCann suspect was lawfully tried in rape case
Preliminary opinion a setback for Christian Brückner’s attempt to appeal conviction using European arrest warrant rules
Kate Connolly
Thu 6 Aug 2020 15.24 BSTLast modified on Thu 6 Aug 2020 15.56 BST
The prime suspect in the disappearance of the British toddler Madeleine McCann was told that he was lawfully put on trial for rape last year, as his lawyers attempt to overturn that conviction at the European court of justice.
Christian Brückner, a 43-year-old German, is trying to overturn his conviction for the rape of a 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in 2005. He has argued at the ECJ that he had been extradited to Germany from Portugal, and later Italy, on a different charge.
According to European arrest warrant rules he should not have been able to have been subsequently put on trial for a separate crime, his lawyers said.
They said that German authorities had required Portugal’s consent in order to bring the rape proceedings, owing to the fact that the June 2017 extradition order was for drugs charges.
But a preliminary opinion by the advocate general Michal Bobek said the consent of the Italian authorities was all that was necessary for the Germans to pursue the proceedings against Brückner for the rape in 2005 in Portugal. .
Brückner was in Italy when charged with the rape, and authorities there had given consent for him to be tried in Germany.
Bobek’s appraisal is not legally binding and the court has yet to make a ruling, but it is usual practice for ECJ judges to follow the opinion of its advocate generals.
A spokesperson for Germany’s prosecutor said: “We are satisfied and waiting for the decision of the court over the next few weeks.”
When the hearing at the ECJ in Luxembourg opened last month the German prosecutor’s lawyer, Felix Halabi, had argued that Brückner’s argument was “nonsensical”. He said: “The suspect made the most of European open borders and now he wants us to interpret the law so as to get it turned on its head in order to give him an advantage in court.”
Brückner is in a high-security prison in the northern port city of Kiel, serving a 21-month sentence for drug trafficking. His jail term is due to end in January.
If Brückner’s appeal against the rape conviction fails he will be in custody until 2027.
According to Bobek’s assessment the European arrest warrant rules were irrelevant for Brückner’s case, owing to the fact that he had, in the interim, left Germany of his own accord, and returned to the country on a fresh European arrest warrant. This was carried out by authorities in Italy, who had approved the German authorities’ request.
Bobek said the restrictions, which would have been relevant for the first arrest warrant, would no longer be in place once a separate warrant had been issued.
Brückner was originally extradited from Portugal to Germany in 2017 to serve a sentence for the sexual abuse of a minor from which he had absconded. He served the one year and three months sentence and was released on 31 August 2018. Police attempts to keep him in Germany failed and he went to the Netherlands then on to Italy before being arrested there in September 2018.
He was convicted for the 2005 rape in December 2019 and sentenced to seven and a half years in jail.
German prosecutors have repeatedly said they believed Brückner killed Madeleine. Hans Christian Wolters, the Braunschweig prosecutor leading the investigation, said investigators had “concrete evidence” that he killed her but so far had no “forensic evidence”.
It remains unclear how strong the evidence is and prosecutors have not brought charges against him.
A week ago investigators spent two days in a Hanover suburb digging up an allotment plot once used by Brückner. The police have given no further information on the search.
The UK’s Metropolitan police said they were continuing to treat the disappearance of Madeleine as a missing person inquiry.
Brückner’s appeal is ongoing.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/06/european-court-advises-madeleine-suspect-was-lawfully-tried-for
As yet nothing has been writ on tablets of stone ~ but with any luck one of Brueckner's victims may well see a form of justice for having her life wrecked.
Nobody can say that Brueckner's lawyers haven't pulled out all the stops on his behalf ... in my opinion they are certainly earning their corn.
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European court of justice advises Madeleine McCann suspect was lawfully tried in rape case
Preliminary opinion a setback for Christian Brückner’s attempt to appeal conviction using European arrest warrant rules
Kate Connolly
Thu 6 Aug 2020 15.24 BSTLast modified on Thu 6 Aug 2020 15.56 BST
The prime suspect in the disappearance of the British toddler Madeleine McCann was told that he was lawfully put on trial for rape last year, as his lawyers attempt to overturn that conviction at the European court of justice.
Christian Brückner, a 43-year-old German, is trying to overturn his conviction for the rape of a 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in 2005. He has argued at the ECJ that he had been extradited to Germany from Portugal, and later Italy, on a different charge.
According to European arrest warrant rules he should not have been able to have been subsequently put on trial for a separate crime, his lawyers said.
They said that German authorities had required Portugal’s consent in order to bring the rape proceedings, owing to the fact that the June 2017 extradition order was for drugs charges.
But a preliminary opinion by the advocate general Michal Bobek said the consent of the Italian authorities was all that was necessary for the Germans to pursue the proceedings against Brückner for the rape in 2005 in Portugal. .
Brückner was in Italy when charged with the rape, and authorities there had given consent for him to be tried in Germany.
Bobek’s appraisal is not legally binding and the court has yet to make a ruling, but it is usual practice for ECJ judges to follow the opinion of its advocate generals.
A spokesperson for Germany’s prosecutor said: “We are satisfied and waiting for the decision of the court over the next few weeks.”
When the hearing at the ECJ in Luxembourg opened last month the German prosecutor’s lawyer, Felix Halabi, had argued that Brückner’s argument was “nonsensical”. He said: “The suspect made the most of European open borders and now he wants us to interpret the law so as to get it turned on its head in order to give him an advantage in court.”
Brückner is in a high-security prison in the northern port city of Kiel, serving a 21-month sentence for drug trafficking. His jail term is due to end in January.
If Brückner’s appeal against the rape conviction fails he will be in custody until 2027.
According to Bobek’s assessment the European arrest warrant rules were irrelevant for Brückner’s case, owing to the fact that he had, in the interim, left Germany of his own accord, and returned to the country on a fresh European arrest warrant. This was carried out by authorities in Italy, who had approved the German authorities’ request.
Bobek said the restrictions, which would have been relevant for the first arrest warrant, would no longer be in place once a separate warrant had been issued.
Brückner was originally extradited from Portugal to Germany in 2017 to serve a sentence for the sexual abuse of a minor from which he had absconded. He served the one year and three months sentence and was released on 31 August 2018. Police attempts to keep him in Germany failed and he went to the Netherlands then on to Italy before being arrested there in September 2018.
He was convicted for the 2005 rape in December 2019 and sentenced to seven and a half years in jail.
German prosecutors have repeatedly said they believed Brückner killed Madeleine. Hans Christian Wolters, the Braunschweig prosecutor leading the investigation, said investigators had “concrete evidence” that he killed her but so far had no “forensic evidence”.
It remains unclear how strong the evidence is and prosecutors have not brought charges against him.
A week ago investigators spent two days in a Hanover suburb digging up an allotment plot once used by Brückner. The police have given no further information on the search.
The UK’s Metropolitan police said they were continuing to treat the disappearance of Madeleine as a missing person inquiry.
Brückner’s appeal is ongoing.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/06/european-court-advises-madeleine-suspect-was-lawfully-tried-for
As yet nothing has been writ on tablets of stone ~ but with any luck one of Brueckner's victims may well see a form of justice for having her life wrecked.
Nobody can say that Brueckner's lawyers haven't pulled out all the stops on his behalf ... in my opinion they are certainly earning their corn.
Which victims did you have in mind ?
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Strong or concrete evidence isnt proof so isnt enough to convict.....so all those saying the Germans have nothing might want to have another think.
Presumption of innocence means they have nothing.
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Presumption of innocence means they have nothing.
Explain the logic.
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Presumption of innocence means they have nothing.
Of course it doesnt.....about the worst post you've ever made
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youre totally mistaken...the Germans have said they have concrete evidence...some posters want to believe they have nothing...
With the 'concrete' evidence and the allegedly circumstantial evidence they must be able to pin it on him...
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With the 'concrete' evidence and the allegedly circumstantial evidence they must be able to pin it on him...
concrete evidence isnt proof but we will see
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concrete evidence isnt proof but we will see
why use the term concrete evidence- this sounds like he certainly did it, AND they can prove it!
If they say circumstantial evidence that is more acceptable and believable.
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Which victims did you have in mind ?
Did you miss out on the fact he is a paedophile and a convicted rapist.
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why use the term concrete evidence- this sounds like he certainly did it, AND they can prove it!
If they say circumstantial evidence that is more acceptable and believable.
thats all your opinion....whats your experience in prosecution?
Concrete evidence is evidence but may not be proof. Some posters want to believe they have nothing. I think that is ridiculous...we will see
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Did you miss out on the fact he is a paedophile and a convicted rapist.
For which he has served/ is going to serve sentences, so justice has been done.
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For which he has served/ is going to serve sentences, so justice has been done.
You think...like the young thugs who dragged a policeman to his death...they will serve their sentence and you believe justice is then done
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You think...like the young thugs who dragged a policeman to his death...they will serve their sentence and you believe justice is then done
Yes - that's the law.
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Yes - that's the law.
its the law but not justice
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its the law but not justice
In the eyes of the Law it is.
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For which he has served/ is going to serve sentences, so justice has been done.
You challenged my original post in which I said ... "As yet nothing has been writ on tablets of stone ~ but with any luck one of Brueckner's victims may well see a form of justice for having her life wrecked.
Nobody can say that Brueckner's lawyers haven't pulled out all the stops on his behalf ... in my opinion they are certainly earning their corn." ... by asking 'what victims?',
_______________________________________
I thought it was a particularly obtuse question as anyone following the news really had to know exactly to whom I made reference
Do you consider paedophilia and rape to be victimless crimes the victims of which don't carry the scars for the rest of their lives.
That is the point I was making originally. Nothing at all to do with the lawful justice handed out to perpetrators and for which the punishment seldom fits the crime.
Brueckner will serve his paltry few years for the heinous torture and rape he inflicted. His victim will serve a life sentence.
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its the law but not justice
It has been noted by a great many that the punishment did not fit the heinousness of the crime. Which is a different thing altogether.
Justice was served,but left a bitter taste.
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It has been noted by a great many that the punishment did not fit the heinousness of the crime. Which is a different thing altogether.
Justice was served,but left a bitter taste.
Very hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt they knew he was caught in the towing rope/strop and murdered him.It'll be the same with the german suspect, its clear imo they haven't evidence to that effect else he'd be already charged.
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In the eyes of the Law it is.
justice in the eyes of the law does not always equate to moral justice...the law has no morals
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are you an expert on forensis analysis now....how much material do they have?
Who's an expert when it comes to that?
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Who's an expert when it comes to that?
I would say almost everyone who is a member of this forum ... or at least they think they are.
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It has been noted by a great many that the punishment did not fit the heinousness of the crime. Which is a different thing altogether.
Justice was served,but left a bitter taste.
Quite a common problem I believe.
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justice in the eyes of the law does not always equate to moral justice...the law has no morals
That is why it isn't called justice according to morals, based on ....?... morals.
The law is about who has the most money and who can present a good argument to a stupefied jury or Judge in some instances. Evidence-even circumstantial which can be admitted can let an innocent person go to jail and free a guilty person.
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justice in the eyes of the law does not always equate to moral justice...the law has no morals
Is that your wisdom Davel?
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Is that your wisdom Davel?
The lady holding the scales wears a blindfold.
I doubt there are many who would think Brueckner got his just desserts when measured against the enormity of his crime.
But at the least it seems the Germans saw to it that something was done about him, and good on them for that.
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The lady holding the scales wears a blindfold.
I doubt there are many who would think Brueckner got his just desserts when measured against the enormity of his crime.
But at the least it seems the Germans saw to it that something was done about him, and good on them for that.
very well put
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justice in the eyes of the law does not always equate to moral justice...the law has no morals
I know of three small cases where that was fact. The Law, unfortunately, very often just settles an argument, one way or another, with the liar usually winning
And it is going to get worse with all the manipulation of the internet. 8()(((@#
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how long do you think it will take to carefuly examine and analyse what was removed from the allotmnet site. HCW has gone on holiday... some say for 3 weeks..it could take a couple of months.
I wouldn't hold your breath 😂😂😂
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It makes me wonder whether any of the images feature the place recently searched . Its hard to beleive the german police would commit 100 officers based on nothing.....and it sems search only this one place. HCW has said he has concrete evidence maddie is dead and Breukner killed her. Some posters want to believe the Germans have nothing.....I think there is going to be a lot of egg on peoples faces.
They're desperate you see...egg on face and all that.
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They're desperate you see...egg on face and all that.
I think they are closer to solving it than the PJ ever were
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I think they are closer to solving it than the PJ ever were
They will never solve it as Maddie never left Portugal imo.
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They're desperate you see...egg on face and all that.
I think they are closer to solving it than the PJ ever were
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They will never solve it as Maddie never left Portugal imo.
I think they are close...it's a big ask after 13 years...that's the problem
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I think they are close...it's a big ask after 13 years...that's the problem
The Germans won't be any hurry, their suspect will be in prison for some time to come, don't expect an outcome any time soon save to rule him out, if they bother to keep investigating.
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The Germans won't be any hurry, their suspect will be in prison for some time to come, don't expect an outcome any time soon save to rule him out, if they bother to keep investigating.
I agree they are not in a rush...I'm sure I read that HCW wants to build a watertight case first and the post by Carana today confirms that Germany is similar to Portugal in as much that if Breukner is summoned for questioning they have to reveal all the evidence against him..
..Carana made the post today so it's easy to find
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The Germans won't be any hurry, their suspect will be in prison for some time to come, don't expect an outcome any time soon save to rule him out, if they bother to keep investigating.
And what do they eventually do with their 'concrete evidence'? Do they hand it over to Europol and get them to run with it? Or do they re-engage with SY?
I hope this all gets resolved so I can go back to moderating the Dremel 3D45 3D Printer forum.
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And what do they eventually do with their 'concrete evidence'? Do they hand it over to Europol and get them to run with it? Or do they re-engage with SY?
I hope this all gets resolved so I can go back to moderating the Dremel 3D45 3D Printer forum.
I seem to think HCW said he would reveal it soon
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And what do they eventually do with their 'concrete evidence'? Do they hand it over to Europol and get them to run with it? Or do they re-engage with SY?
I hope this all gets resolved so I can go back to moderating the Dremel 3D45 3D Printer forum.
The thingamabob is the forum to be on.
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I seem to think HCW said he would reveal it soon
Well the burner phone owner they were looking for hasn't come forward, so I wonder if Grimey will be contacted.
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Well the burner phone owner they were looking for hasn't come forward, so I wonder if Grimey will be contacted.
I'm surprised with his skills and reputation he hasn't already been flown by private jet to the allotment in question...perhaps he has
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I'm surprised with his skills and reputation he hasn't already been flown by private jet to the allotment in question...perhaps he has
He could probably do it via Remote Viewing. #mkultra #operationpaperclip #stareatgoats
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He could probably do it via Remote Viewing. #mkultra #operationpaperclip #stareatgoats
He is THE goat
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Its only little outburst'a from the red tops that'll keep his name remembered in the long run.
LAWYER'S MADDIE TAUNT Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian B will NEVER face trial for her disappearance, his lawyer claims
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12352136/madeleine-mccann-christian-b-trial-disappearance-lawyer/
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Its only little outburst'a from the red tops that'll keep his name remembered in the long run.
LAWYER'S MADDIE TAUNT Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian B will NEVER face trial for her disappearance, his lawyer claims
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12352136/madeleine-mccann-christian-b-trial-disappearance-lawyer/
I can't open links to that rag, but his lawyer is spot on; he will never face trial and he won't even face a charge.
'He's not the paedo no-one is looking for'.
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So many soothsayers on this forum, it's quite incredible.
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So many soothsayers on this forum, it's quite incredible.
They'd have had The McCanns banged up given half a chance. I wonder why that never happened?
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whatever happens...he will never be cleared and will never be proven innocent
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whatever happens...he will never be cleared and will never be proven innocent
He won't get charged either, but [channels Kevin Keegan] I would love it, love it if he did. He'd be able to take his pick of the best defence team in Germany, who'd set about examining every facet of the case.
A few kecks would start rolling up then, kidda and it would be the best thing that could happen to this circus.
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whatever happens...he will never be cleared and will never be proven innocent
Even if charges are never brought and no other suspect emerges he'll be forever known by the McCann tale, the legend has been writ.
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So many soothsayers on this forum, it's quite incredible.
Better than gung ho hang the fecker high brigade, a little reminder of a retraction by Wolters.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418077/Madeleine-McCann-ALIVE-admits-German-prosecutor.html
Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE, admits German prosecutor in U-turn as he confirms there is no forensic evidence to show she is dead
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I can't open links to that rag, but his lawyer is spot on; he will never face trial and he won't even face a charge.
'He's not the paedo no-one is looking for'.
Same story in the mail.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8608841/Madeleine-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-NEVER-face-trial-lawyers-insist.html
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Better than gung ho hang the fecker high brigade, a little reminder of a retraction by Wolters.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418077/Madeleine-McCann-ALIVE-admits-German-prosecutor.html
Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE, admits German prosecutor in U-turn as he confirms there is no forensic evidence to show she is dead
I don’t see any of those people on this forum so what the hell are you on about?
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I don’t see any of those people on this forum so what the hell are you on about?
Wishful Thinking?
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Even if charges are never brought and no other suspect emerges he'll be forever known by the McCann tale, the legend has been writ.
I think you are absolutely wrong as far as that is concerned ... as far as many individuals are concerned The Legend was writ many years ago ... and I think you may be aware that there are those who will never give up on that one.
I think from the tone of your posts you may have leanings that way yourself.
By the way, the Legend known as Liberty Valance was stopped in his tracks to do no more wrong when he was shot dead ... do you look forward to the same happening to Herr Brueckner metaphorically speaking, if the law brings his career to an end?
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Better than gung ho hang the fecker high brigade, a little reminder of a retraction by Wolters.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418077/Madeleine-McCann-ALIVE-admits-German-prosecutor.html
Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE, admits German prosecutor in U-turn as he confirms there is no forensic evidence to show she is dead
I think you are reading far too much into that...I think he was just being diplomatic. I don't think they have proof that she is dead but that the evidence they have means its near certain she is.
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He won't get charged either, but [channels Kevin Keegan] I would love it, love it if he did. He'd be able to take his pick of the best defence team in Germany, who'd set about examining every facet of the case.
A few kecks would start rolling up then, kidda and it would be the best thing that could happen to this circus.
I too would love it like Kevin if every facet of the case was closely looked at..I think it would be a massive disappointment for sceptics
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I think you are absolutely wrong as far as that is concerned ... as far as many individuals are concerned The Legend was writ many years ago ... and I think you may be aware that there are those who will never give up on that one.
I think from the tone of your posts you may have leanings that way yourself.
By the way, the Legend known as Liberty Valance was stopped in his tracks to do no more wrong when he was shot dead ... do you look forward to the same happening to Herr Brueckner metaphorically speaking, if the law brings his career to an end?
What an odd metaphor.
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What an odd metaphor.
Isn't it though. Might be worthwhile asking the originator why "legend" seemed to be appropriate for her to introduce into the argument.
Brueckner will never be my idea of a "legend" but there is it seems at least one member who thinks he may become one but only if he is discovered not to have had anything to do with Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Strange and illogical, I think.
I don't know what the thoughts are should the Germans charge and successfully prosecute Brueckner in relation to Madeleine. Does that mean he loses his 'legend' status or does he become an even bigger 'legend'.
I'm truly not really concerned but you seem intrigued ... so don't let me stand in the way of your interest.
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Isn't it though. Might be worthwhile asking the originator why "legend" seemed to be appropriate for her to introduce into the argument.
Brueckner will never be my idea of a "legend" but there is it seems at least one member who thinks he may become one but only if he is discovered not to have had anything to do with Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Strange and illogical, I think.
I don't know what the thoughts are should the Germans charge and successfully prosecute Brueckner in relation to Madeleine. Does that mean he loses his 'legend' status or does he become an even bigger 'legend'.
I'm truly not really concerned but you seem intrigued ... so don't let me stand in the way of your interest.
The legend is that the German done it, that legend has been writ, print the legend.
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The legend is that the German done it, that legend has been writ, print the legend.
you do like to repeat your little mantras quite regularly don’t you?
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you do like to repeat your little mantras quite regularly don’t you?
There's another mantra....the police know who did it and have strong evidence....just can't prove it at the moment
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There's another mantra....the police know who did it and have strong evidence....just can't prove it at the moment
If they had strong evidence CB would be questioned. You cannot prove anything without evidence but you're correct the police know who did it. They've never had to bring that remaining lead into it when they've been eliminating all others. Luis Neves is in charge of the PJ and the Portuguese Supreme Court said it loud and clear.
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If they had strong evidence CB would be questioned. You cannot prove anything without evidence but you're correct the police know who did it. They've never had to bring that remaining lead into it when they've been eliminating all others. Luis Neves is in charge of the PJ and the Portuguese Supreme Court said it loud and clear.
Oh dear, another example of strange logic. The police are first eliminating every person who was in the area that night before finally getting their teeth into the McCanns. Won’t be long now!
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If they had strong evidence CB would be questioned. You cannot prove anything without evidence but you're correct the police know who did it. They've never had to bring that remaining lead into it when they've been eliminating all others. Luis Neves is in charge of the PJ and the Portuguese Supreme Court said it loud and clear.
I understand your theory and I think it's total rubbish.
No police force has ever solved a crime by eliminating all possibilities and seeing what's left...it's a ridiculous idea
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I understand your theory and I think it's total rubbish.
No police force has ever solved a crime by eliminating all possibilities and seeing what's left...it's a ridiculous idea
That is rather a bold statement D. "What's left" surely must be part of the equation.
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That is rather a bold statement D. "What's left" surely must be part of the equation.
Not when it involves every other slightly dodgy person.
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Not when it involves every other slightly dodgy person.
But if there is one that never gets eliminated, doesn't the focus come back to that one.
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That is rather a bold statement D. "What's left" surely must be part of the equation.
I said no police force has ever solved a crime by eliminating all the other possibilities....how would they know they have. Even if Breukner isnt charged that doesnt eliminate all other possibilities. Its path who is making very bold statements imo...t
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But if there is one that never gets eliminated, doesn't the focus come back to that one.
I would say that one has already been eliminated
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Oh dear, another example of strange logic. The police are first eliminating every person who was in the area that night before finally getting their teeth into the McCanns. Won’t be long now!
If you think they are waiting then think again 8)--))
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But if there is one that never gets eliminated, doesn't the focus come back to that one.
Like Brueckner you mean? Or do you mean The McCanns as did Pathfinder?
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If you think they are waiting then think again 8)--))
you are making a very big assumption taht CB will be eliminated if he isnt charged
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Like Brueckner you mean? Or do you mean The McCanns as did Pathfinder?
I wasn't thinking of any specific case. Davel's statement was general in scope. He said "No police force has ever solved a crime by eliminating all possibilities and seeing what's left".
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I wasn't thinking of any specific case. Davel's statement was general in scope. He said "No police force has ever solved a crime by eliminating all possibilities and seeing what's left".
how can a police force eliminate all other possibilities...think about it. going into court and saying...we dont have any evidence but hes the only one left...its laughable..
Certainly in this case I dont see anyway Breukner can be eliminated.....unless proof points to someone else
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how can a police force eliminate all other possibilities...think about it. going into court and saying...we dont have any evidence but hes the only one left...its laughable..
Certainly in this case i dont see anyway Breukner can be eliminated.....unless proof points to someone else
Did I say they would do that? I was thinking the one left would get examined again before any court action.
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I wasn't thinking of any specific case. Davel's statement was general in scope. He said "No police force has ever solved a crime by eliminating all possibilities and seeing what's left".
And neither have they. It's a ridiculous idea.
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Did I say they would do that? I was thinking the one left would get examined again before any court action.
When do they arrive at the one left..how do they know they have eliminated all possibilities....
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And neither have they. It's a ridiculous idea.
I disagree.
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you are making a very big assumption taht CB will be eliminated if he isnt charged
You require evidence to charge him. No evidence of him in the apartment or being seen there. Using his phone in a place where he lived is not evidence, only a lead. An internet chat is not evidence of him being involved when it allegedly took place years after the disappearance. Many have said Madeleine is dead so that is hardly credible evidence. What evidence?
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You require evidence to charge him. No evidence of him in the apartment or being seen there. Using his phone in a place where he lived is not evidence, only a lead. An internet chat is not evidence of him being involved when it allegedly took place years after the disappearance. Many have said Madeleine is dead so that is hardly credible evidence. What evidence?
Nothing you have said proves his innocence
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When do they arrive at the one left..how do they know they have eliminated all possibilities....
The ones known to them of course.
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Nothing you have said proves his innocence
Nothing suggests he was involved except an open window which had evidence on it. A phone call in a place where he lived. Where is he supposed to make a call from?
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If you think they are waiting then think again 8)--))
I have no idea what you mean by that statement - it seems to be YOU who think the police are just biding their time, 13 plus years after coming to the conclusion the McCanns dunnit.
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The PJ and SY are looking for a body and they have been searching in Portugal not Germany.
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Nothing suggests he was involved except an open window which had evidence on it. A phone call in a place where he lived. Where is he supposed to make a call from?
the Germans have strong evidence of his involvement....it's not up to you to decide if hes been cleared or not..is it?
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The PJ and SY are looking for a body and they have been searching in Portugal not Germany.
if Maddie was abducted her body may well be in Portugal
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if Maddie was abductefd her body may well be in Portugal
A body could end up anywhere. Well within a day's driving.
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A body could end up anywhere. Well within a day's driving.
thats why I said...may well be in portugal....not definitely in portugal. You need to look at the context in which posts are made
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if Maddie was abducted her body may well be in Portugal
if Maddie was abducted her body may well be in Portugal, or Spain, or Germany, or France .... is that what you mean?
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if Maddie was abducted her body may well be in Portugal, or Spain, or Germany, or France .... is that what you mean?
My post is self expalnatory if you read it in context...is this another pointless personal argument
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the Germans have strong evidence of his involvement....it's not up to you to decide if hes been cleared or not..is it?
Strong evidence is being able to prove she is dead before questioning any suspects they believe is involved. The Germans cannot prove it or they would be questioning CB. First they have to prove Madeleine is dead.
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Strong evidence is being able to prove she is dead before questioning any suspects they believe is involved. The Germans cannot prove it or they would be questioning CB. First they have to prove Madeleine is dead.
If Madeleine was abducted she may still be alive. So why say the Germans have to prove she is dead? You seem to be one step ahead.
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Strong evidence is being able to prove she is dead before questioning any suspects they believe is involved. The Germans cannot prove it or they would be questioning CB. First they have to prove Madeleine is dead.
You are obvioulsy mistaken...being able to prove she is dead requires proof...not simply evidence. I have explained why they are not questioning CB at this moment...I can't be bothered to do it again
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You are obvioulsy mistaken...being able to prove she is dead requires proof...not simply evidence. I have explained why they are not questioning CB at this moment...I can't be bothered to do it again
What sort of proof are you suggesting? People have been charged without the body, so it isn't a body is it?
OK a dead body will just be evidence. What is proof then? Is it when the evidence can be explained in a way that makes the accused seem guilty?
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You are obvioulsy mistaken...being able to prove she is dead requires proof...not simply evidence. I have explained why they are not questioning CB at this moment...I can't be bothered to do it again
You cannot accuse him of murder without evidence of the victim being deceased. The Germans believe he killed her when they were informed he said she was dead in a pub conversation.
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if Maddie was abducted her body may well be in Portugal, or Spain, or Germany, or France .... is that what you mean?
Madeleine may well be where an abductor, or the people he passed her to have taken her.
Please remember there is no proof conclusive or otherwise that Madeleine is dead ... she could still be alive.
I think if I were Brueckner, his lawyer and those total strangers who wish him well I would not be too sure of him walking away from Madeleine's case unscathed. If there is evidence out there I think now is the time to find it with top detectives determined as are Madeleine's parents to leave no stone unturned.
To me it was always feasible that one day one stone being turned would reveal a creature like Brueckner lurking underneath it ... but if no-one is interested in looking, nothing will be found which disgracefully typified Madeleine's case for so long.
The situation has changed now ... investigators have got the bit between their teeth and are going for it unreservedly, I wish them well in their task.
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What sort of proof are you suggesting? People have been charged without the body, so it isn't a body is it?
OK a dead body will just be evidence. What is proof then? Is it when the evidence can be explained in a way that makes the accused seem guilty?
sorry your post doesnt make a lot of sense to me...a dead body wouldnt be just evidence.....it's 100% proof
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What sort of proof are you suggesting? People have been charged without the body, so it isn't a body is it?
OK a dead body will just be evidence. What is proof then? Is it when the evidence can be explained in a way that makes the accused seem guilty?
The German Prosecutor seems to think that a murder charge requires a body ... so I'm going with that.
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sorry your post doesnt make a lot of sense to me...a dead body wouldnt be just evidence.....it's 100% proof
A body found in a building formally occupied by CB would be evidence, but is it proof he did it?
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The German Prosecutor seems to think that a murder charge requires a body ... so I'm going with that.
Ok so it won't be a "no body" case, if they keep their word. So the body/body part will need to be able to be confirmed to be from MM. DNA is the ultimate proof of that (e.g DNA from inside a bone). All other identifiers to MM are likely to be lost by now.
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A body found in a building formally occupied by CB would be evidence, but is it proof he did it?
Its proof of death...whether it proves he did it or not depends on what the Jury thinks. The word proof is used a lot here...there is absolute proof...the 100% kind....but justice doesnt require that...it requires proof beyond reasonable doubt
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Its proof of death...whether it proves he did it or not depends on what the Jury thinks. The word proof is used a lot here...there is absolute proof...the 100% kind....but justice doesnt require that...it requires proof beyond reasonable doubt
So do you agree with that? That proof is what a jury decides. You might be right, as I'm still trying to understand how evidence becomes proof.
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So do you agree with that? That proof is what a jury decides. You might be right, as I'm still trying to understand how evidence becomes proof.
A jury decides on proof beyond reasonable doubt...not absolute truth. Its up to the Jury to decide if the evidence becomes proof beyond reasoanable doubt
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So do you agree with that? That proof is what a jury decides. You might be right, as I'm still trying to understand how evidence becomes proof.
The burden is for prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the evidence is proof of the crime.
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Ok so it won't be a "no body" case, if they keep their word. So the body/body part will need to be able to be confirmed to be from MM. DNA is the ultimate proof of that (e.g DNA from inside a bone). All other identifiers to MM are likely to be lost by now.
If Madeleine is still alive, which I believe from a multitude of pointers (Circumstantial evidence) … then there will be an abundance of DNA from Madeleines hair and body fluids. These could have been obtained from a living Madeleine in 2017, or before, when it looked like OP Grange were closing in
As Misty has pointed out, the ears never change .. so they are more important than the DNA IMO.
As I pointed out before any cadaver dogs will only identify a cadaver, not if it is Madeleine or Inge or someone else.
It is the EARS that matter if identifying a cadaver thought provisionally to be Madeleine.
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If Madeleine is still alive, which I believe from a multitude of pointers (Circumstantial evidence) … then there will be an abundance of DNA from Madeleines hair and body fluids. These could have been obtained from a living Madeleine in 2017, or before, when it looked like OP Grange were closing in
As Misty has pointed out, the ears never change .. so they are more important than the DNA IMO.
As I pointed out before any cadaver dogs will only identify a cadaver, not if it is Madeleine or Inge or someone else.
It is the EARS that matter if identifying a cadaver thought provisionally to be Madeleine.
Some time back I studied Madeleine's ears and it wasn't that easy.
1. Most photos were showing front-on facial features, and no ears.
2. Her long hair generally covered the ears.
3. Would both ears be mirror images?
So to be able to identify Madeleine from her ears you would need to have seen and defined the shape of her ears to begin with.
Do you know if that has ever been done?
For the ears to be still present on a cadaver it has to have been a relatively recent death. If she was killed and left on the surface of the ground maggots would destroy the body within weeks and parts that might survive the maggots would soon be scattered by wild animals and birds looking for things to eat.
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The burden is for prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the evidence is proof of the crime.
This video puts in doubt the process. https://youtu.be/YHkoS80Ln0w "Witness to Bob Chappell murder breaks 10 year silence | 60 Minutes Australia"
This guy's wife has been found guilty but according to this witness it was caused by someone else altogether.
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This video puts in doubt the process. https://youtu.be/YHkoS80Ln0w "Witness to Bob Chappell murder breaks 10 year silence | 60 Minutes Australia"
This guy's wife has been found guilty but according to this witness it was caused by someone else altogether.
Of course the process has doubts....judicial proof is not absolute proof...it's just the opinion of the jury
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If Madeleine is still alive, which I believe from a multitude of pointers (Circumstantial evidence) … then there will be an abundance of DNA from Madeleines hair and body fluids. These could have been obtained from a living Madeleine in 2017, or before, when it looked like OP Grange were closing in
As Misty has pointed out, the ears never change .. so they are more important than the DNA IMO.
As I pointed out before any cadaver dogs will only identify a cadaver, not if it is Madeleine or Inge or someone else.
It is the EARS that matter if identifying a cadaver thought provisionally to be Madeleine.
I don't think science has picked up the importance of ears; DNA is still their gold standard.
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I don't think science has picked up the importance of ears; DNA is still their gold standard.
Not according to this article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/8052887/Ears-provide-new-way-of-identifying-people-in-airports.html#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20discovered%20that%20each,to%20identify%20whose%20they%20are.
"Researchers have discovered that each person's ears have a unique shape and have created a system that is able to scan them. The scans can then be compared with a database of ear shapes to identify whose they are."
OK but as with DNA you have to have the database.
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Del
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Not sure I have ever heard of the ears being used over DNA as an identifying feature. Perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.
I have studied the case of Anna Anderson for many years who claimed that she was Anastasia Romanov. Her ears were compared to the real Anastasia and the result was that there was a definite similarity between the two and therefore it could not be ruled out that she was who she said she was. After analysis was done on a piece of her flesh that had been kept after an operation scientists found that her DNA did not match the Romanov descendants. Of course Anastasia’s body was later found with her family’s in the Four Brother’s mine where they had been dumped on the night of their execution.
As a point of interest Anthony Summers, he of the Looking for Madeleine book, wrote a book about the Romanov’s disappearance hypothesising that most of the family were not executed and had escaped towards Perm. He never was very good at unraveling mysteries.
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Not sure I have ever heard of the ears being used over DNA as an identifying feature. Perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.
I have studied the case of Anna Anderson for many years who claimed that she was Anastasia Romanov. Her ears were compared to the real Anastasia and the result was that there was a definite similarity between the two and therefore it could not be ruled out that she was who she said she was. After analysis was done on a piece of her flesh that had been kept after an operation scientists found that her DNA did not match the Romanov descendants. Of course Anastasia’s body was later found with her family’s in the Four Brother’s mine where they had been dumped on the night of their execution.
As a point of interest Anthony Summers, he of the Looking for Madeleine book, wrote a book about the Romanov’s disappearance hypothesising that most of the family were not executed and had escaped towards Perm. He never was very good at unraveling mysteries.
Ear shape analysis could be done rather quickly compared to a DNA test. I could see this being used at airports to keep out people who have been deported.
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Ear shape analysis could be done rather quickly compared to a DNA test. I could see this being used at airports to keep out people who have been deported.
There could be many applications. However it is not and I can’t see it ever being more definitive for identification purposes than DNA.
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Ear shape analysis could be done rather quickly compared to a DNA test. I could see this being used at airports to keep out people who have been deported.
they already useeye aand facial recognition which is quick
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they already useeye aand facial recognition which is quick
I feel the shape of an ear pinna could be easily altered by plastic surgery. The iris is a bit more difficult IMO.
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Did anyone watch the programme about the Parachute attempted murder this evening? It took the police 17 months to build a case against the perpetrator even though the circumstantial evidence pointed to him from the beginning. No forensic evidence was found for many months. In total it took over 3 years to bring him to justice. I suppose anyone following the investigation in the first couple of months would have been scoffing and jeering at the police for failing to charge him and would have been predicting confidently that charges would never brought.
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The circumstantial evidence in this case leads to Smithman carrying his Madeleine clone and neither being seen again
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The circumstantial evidence in this case leads to Smithman carrying his Madeleine clone and neither being seen again
In your opinion. The circumstantial evidence leads in a completely direction in mine and the police are currently heading in the same direction, the opposite direction to yours.
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The circumstantial evidence in this case leads to Smithman carrying his Madeleine clone and neither being seen again
That would not fit with the dog alerts..not enough time for cadaver odour to develop...your theory doesn't fit your evidence
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That would not fit with the dog alerts..not enough time for cadaver odour to develop...your theory doesn't fit your evidence
Depends what time she died really doesn't it.
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Depends what time she died really doesn't it.
no...depends if she died
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no...depends if she died
Yes, of course, but I wouldn't risk buying her any birthday presents.
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Yes, of course, but I wouldn't risk buying her any birthday presents.
good to see you agree with me
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good to see you agree with me
I don't really.
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That would not fit with the dog alerts..not enough time for cadaver odour to develop...your theory doesn't fit your evidence
You obviously don't know my theory.
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You obviously don't know my theory.
I know you are mistaken like Amaral and the rest of the initial investigation in believing the alerts and forensics confirm a cadaver in the apartment...that isn't true so it destroys your theory
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I know you are mistaken like Amaral and the rest of the initial investigation in believing the alerts and forensics confirm a cadaver in the apartment...that isn't true so it destroys your theory
What court of law ruled that out?
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What court of law ruled that out?
I think this current discussion has been done to death, and is off topic on this thread. Can it stop somehow?
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I think this current discussion has been done to death, and is off topic on this thread. Can it stop somehow?
Its The way of the world Rob,some of us just spend a few minutes here passing through til something important turns up in the day.Others like to see it has some kind of calling.
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Its The way of the world Rob,some of us just spend a few minutes here passing through til something important turns up in the day.Others like to see it has some kind of calling.
It's funny the way some posters think they understand why others post.
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Its The way of the world Rob,some of us just spend a few minutes here passing through til something important turns up in the day.Others like to see it has some kind of calling.
Oi, Mods!! Can we have some points here for generalising?! And being provocative. I will report too.
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Oi, Mods!! Can we have some points here for generalising?! And being provocative. I will report too.
I think thats a very fair comment.
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Nothing provocative about the truth.
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Its The way of the world Rob,some of us just spend a few minutes here passing through til something important turns up in the day.Others like to see it has some kind of calling.
Everyone to their own as they say.
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Nothing provocative about the truth.
What utter rubbish.
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Everyone to their own as they say.
to be honest maddie is on the bottom of things in my life now 13 years ago i wasnt a aunty im now i have other things in my life that keep me busy .lots of little girls and boys have died horribly since madeline vanished/died why is she so special?? and mcann supporter mods delete this all you want its the truth maddie isnt any of our child but some seem obsessed and are horrible to those who dont belive what they want people to believe i personally think this latest accused had nothing to do with what did happen to maddie
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to be honest maddie is on the bottom of things in my life now 13 years ago i wasnt a aunty im now i have other things in my life that keep me busy .lots of little girls and boys have died horribly since madeline vanished/died why is she so special?? and mcann supporter mods delete this all you want its the truth maddie isnt any of our child but some seem obsessed and are horrible to those who dont belive what they want people to believe i personally think this latest accused had nothing to do with what did happen to maddie
Why do you even bother to visit this forum on a regular basis then, if it’s all so tiresome and beneath you?
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to be honest maddie is on the bottom of things in my life now 13 years ago i wasnt a aunty im now i have other things in my life that keep me busy .lots of little girls and boys have died horribly since madeline vanished/died why is she so special?? and mcann supporter mods delete this all you want its the truth maddie isnt any of our child but some seem obsessed and are horrible to those who dont belive what they want people to believe i personally think this latest accused had nothing to do with what did happen to maddie
Are you saying Madeleine shouldn't be searched for because 'lots of girls and boys have died horribly since Madeleine vanished' There were new leads in the Madeleine case that is why OG undertook the job of investigating. No child who is missing is ever forgotten if new leads come up then the Police investigate. There have been cases over 30 years old which have been solved recently.
As to being obsessed, you are still posting after 13 years aren't you? Who is being horrible to you?
As to the new suspect, you might think he has nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, but it not up to you to decide. It's the Police who decide whether he has anything to do with it or not and they are investigating him.
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I don't have s problem with sceptics in general..just some sceptics...I seem to get on quite well with the sceptic General
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I don't have s problem with sceptics in general..just some sceptics...I seem to get on quite well with the sceptic General
Very few of them are as bad as they would like us to believe.
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Very few of them are as bad as they would like us to believe.
I'm at variance with that, Eleanor.
My perception of sceptics is coloured by my introduction to them on a McCann Yahoo board where 'sceptics rule OK' was very definitely the order of the day.
My first and what I thought would be my only post was to wish the newly opened Madeleine McCann investigation well.
I didn't know until then the amount of soul destroying bitter hatred there was for that little girl and her family ... I know now.
Under no circumstances would I wish a creature like Brueckner to escape a full and proper investigation of his crimes and any others of which he may also be reasonably suspected of committing.
If he has anything at all to answer for whether related to Madeleine's case or anyone else's my preference is that Brueckner is charged and tried.
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I'm at variance with that, Eleanor.
My perception of sceptics is coloured by my introduction to them on a McCann Yahoo board where 'sceptics rule OK' was very definitely the order of the day.
My first and what I thought would be my only post was to wish the newly opened Madeleine McCann investigation well.
I didn't know until then the amount of soul destroying bitter hatred there was for that little girl and her family ... I know now.
Under no circumstances would I wish a creature like Brueckner to escape a full and proper investigation of his crimes and any others of which he may also be reasonably suspected of committing.
If he has anything at all to answer for whether related to Madeleine's case or anyone else's my preference is that Brueckner is charged and tried.
I did have a shocking and very nasty experience in the beginning on The Express Forum, back in June 2007. I made an innocuous comment and I bounced off the wall at the reply and then thought, "I'm not having that." The wimpy worm that was me in those days suddenly turned.
Therein lies the tale of what I am doing here. Sadly, I am not the nice person I used to be.
But most of The Sceptics on this Forum really aren't that bad. It is mainly a game of words, at which I have improved enormously. Although you beat me hands down at that one. Your use of words is quite glorious to me. And I have learnt a lot.
Brueckner? I am making no mistakes on him beyond the fact that he is a despicable human being who deserves to be locked up for a very long time for what we know he has already done.
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It does seem now the reporting has ran its course has HCW lost interest now CB not being released in near future,
What I have not seen mentioned is the twins ...plenty about what the mccs must be going through, but not them.
Being in media/news every day for 2 months and they have to know what terrible fate they are claiming Maddie had IMO.
God knows what they have had to listen to or read ...never mind about friends/peers also knowing all that has been said.
If any of this had been credible why was HCW the spokesman ...a prosecutor and not the German police.
Just seemed as if he was always just fishing for anything he could get on CB and just using Maddie the most famouse missing case for maximum effect.
Don't believe he will ever be charged as they seem to have nothing. it has gone on too long.
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It does seem now the reporting has ran its course has HCW lost interest now CB not being released in near future,
What I have not seen mentioned is the twins ...plenty about what the mccs must be going through, but not them.
Being in media/news every day for 2 months and they have to know what terrible fate they are claiming Maddie had IMO.
God knows what they have had to listen to or read ...never mind about friends/peers also knowing all that has been said.
If any of this had been credible why was HCW the spokesman ...a prosecutor and not the German police.
Just seemed as if he was always just fishing for anything he could get on CB and just using Maddie the most famouse missing case for maximum effect.
Don't believe he will ever be charged as they seem to have nothing. it has gone on too long.
Ya. Opportunities lost because Amaral so desperately wanted to nail The McCanns. And consequently ignored the likes of Brueckner.
But I agree. The likelihood of Brueckner being charged are about nil. He will never have to answer a single question, as is his right.
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It does seem now the reporting has ran its course has HCW lost interest now CB not being released in near future,
What I have not seen mentioned is the twins ...plenty about what the mccs must be going through, but not them.
Being in media/news every day for 2 months and they have to know what terrible fate they are claiming Maddie had IMO.
God knows what they have had to listen to or read ...never mind about friends/peers also knowing all that has been said.
If any of this had been credible why was HCW the spokesman ...a prosecutor and not the German police.
Just seemed as if he was always just fishing for anything he could get on CB and just using Maddie the most famouse missing case for maximum effect.
Don't believe he will ever be charged as they seem to have nothing. it has gone on too long.
I would prefer to know what concrete evidence the Germans have first...I don't see them employing 100 officers on a search if they have nothing. I think it's possible he will be charged
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It does seem now the reporting has ran its course has HCW lost interest now CB not being released in near future,
What I have not seen mentioned is the twins ...plenty about what the mccs must be going through, but not them.
Being in media/news every day for 2 months and they have to know what terrible fate they are claiming Maddie had IMO.
God knows what they have had to listen to or read ...never mind about friends/peers also knowing all that has been said.
If any of this had been credible why was HCW the spokesman ...a prosecutor and not the German police.
Just seemed as if he was always just fishing for anything he could get on CB and just using Maddie the most famouse missing case for maximum effect.
Don't believe he will ever be charged as they seem to have nothing. it has gone on too long.
Quite obviously the police are working on the information they have and we will find that out what that may be in the fullness of time ... and it seems there will be no immediate rush for that as it seems Brueckner will be going nowhere any time soon.
I think you are right to be concerned about Madeleine's siblings though. Well done you to think about them.
Why don't you and I make a start on a campaign to encourage immediate removal of the filth and misinformation which has been posted about them and their family over the past thirteen years.
That would at least be a start in trying to make life as normal as possible for them at a fraught time like this.
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Quite obviously the police are working on the information they have and we will find that out what that may be in the fullness of time ... and it seems there will be no immediate rush for that as it seems Brueckner will be going nowhere any time soon.
I think you are right to be concerned about Madeleine's siblings though. Well done you to think about them.
Why don't you and I make a start on a campaign to encourage immediate removal of the filth and misinformation which has been posted about them and their family over the past thirteen years.
That would at least be a start in trying to make life as normal as possible for them at a fraught time like this.
Absolutely
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Ya. Opportunities lost because Amaral so desperately wanted to nail The McCanns. And consequently ignored the likes of Brueckner.
But I agree. The likelihood of Brueckner being charged are about nil. He will never have to answer a single question, as is his right.
I think you should present some evidence to support your belief that the first investigation ignored 'the likes of Brueckner'. Blaming them is unfair and vindictive imo. Bear in mind that you are denigrating all the people who worked on the case from May 2007 until June 2008, and suggesting that they were all negligent.
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I think you should present some evidence to support your belief that the first investigation ignored 'the likes of Brueckner'. Blaming them is unfair and vindictive imo. Bear in mind that you are denigrating all the people who worked on the case from May 2007 until June 2008, and suggesting that they were all negligent.
Almeidas archiving report decided maddie died in the apartment and the parents covered it up....
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I would prefer to know what concrete evidence the Germans have first...I don't see them employing 100 officers on a search if they have nothing. I think it's possible he will be charged
People said something similar when OG dug up Luz;
The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, said the distraught couple “just want to know exactly what happened to their daughter”.
She added: “It is my belief that police have some very good information to be carrying out ground searches.
“I believe there is data in the criminal file which has led to this operation because, if not, police would not be performing this very drastic task.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/madeleine-mccann-search-unprecedented-operation-02-t22614.html
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People said something similar when OG dug up Luz;
The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, said the distraught couple “just want to know exactly what happened to their daughter”.
She added: “It is my belief that police have some very good information to be carrying out ground searches.
“I believe there is data in the criminal file which has led to this operation because, if not, police would not be performing this very drastic task.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/madeleine-mccann-search-unprecedented-operation-02-t22614.html
the police never said they had concrete evidence that a certain suspect had killed maddie. Searching in Luz was natural.....Its no ones belief.....the police have clearly stated they have concrete evidence
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Almeidas archiving report decided maddie died in the apartment and the parents covered it up....
It wasn't an archiving report. It was written in September 2007!
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It wasn't an archiving report. It was written in September 2007!
almeidas interim report ...showed the PJ were tunnel visioned.... im multi tasking...i often don't give my posts my full attention...off to work now
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almeidas interim report ...showed the PJ were tunnel visioned.... im multi tasking...i often don't give my posts my full attention...off to work now
2 till 10?
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I think you should present some evidence to support your belief that the first investigation ignored 'the likes of Brueckner'. Blaming them is unfair and vindictive imo. Bear in mind that you are denigrating all the people who worked on the case from May 2007 until June 2008, and suggesting that they were all negligent.
Oh do give over. Someone knocked on his door but got no answer and never went back.
And don't you ever accuse me of being vindictive in the light of some of the things that you have said. Otherwise I might discard the habits of a lifetime and see you, Jimmy.
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2 till 10?
Don't go there.
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2 till 10?
2 till 3...then 3 till 4 if you must know...
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Oh do give over. Someone knocked on his door but got no answer and never went back.
And don't you ever accuse me of being vindictive in the light of some of the things that you have said. Otherwise I might discard the habits of a lifetime and see you, Jimmy.
You seem to be relying on the words of a 'convicted liar'. Any port in a storm I suppose. Are you threatening me Eleanor? I thought such behaviour was outwith 'forum protocols'.
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You seem to be relying on the words of a 'convicted liar'. Any port in a storm I suppose. Are you threatening me Eleanor? I thought such behaviour was outwith 'forum protocols'.
You have accused me of being Vindictive. Is that outwith Forum Protocol?
Don't try me. I only ever fight back. And I am sick and tired of unsubstantiated accusations, not least against me.
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You have accused me of being Vindictive. Is that outwith Forum Protocol?
Don't try me. I only ever fight back. And I am sick and tired of unsubstantiated accusations, not least against me.
No Reply. Well, well. Did I threaten you?
Go back five years and see what I had to deal with. You don't even know that you were born.
You see, you have accused me of being Vindictive, which is a pretty horrible accusation. And if you think that I am taking that one lying down then you know nothing about me.
I am a Senior Moderator for what it is worth, although perhaps not that all much. So who cares?
I watch what you do and have never had a problem with your Moderation. But I was mortally offended by your accusation of being Vindictive. In fact I thought that you didn't really mean it. Or at least I hoped so. But the days of me putting up with this are long gone. So don't ever do it again.
Moderator don't attack other Moderators.
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I think you should present some evidence to support your belief that the first investigation ignored 'the likes of Brueckner'. Blaming them is unfair and vindictive imo. Bear in mind that you are denigrating all the people who worked on the case from May 2007 until June 2008, and suggesting that they were all negligent.
How many paedophiles and burglars did the PJ actively investigate and apart from knocking on their doors and giving up when they weren’t in what did these investigations actually involve?
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You seem to be relying on the words of a 'convicted liar'. Any port in a storm I suppose. Are you threatening me Eleanor? I thought such behaviour was outwith 'forum protocols'.
yeah you’re right, as if the PJ would have even bothered knocking on any paedos’ doors. Highly far fetched imo.
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Ha ha,just had a warning for asking for tickets and the price of them, do you really think I care.
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What price are the tickets and when are they on sale?
Don't be silly. Gunit just got a bit carried away and wasn't thinking sensibly.
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Don't be silly. Gunit just got a bit carried away and wasn't thinking sensibly.
Its the heat, just can't keep the stiff upper lip.
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Ha ha,just had a warning for asking for tickets and the price of them, do you really think I care.
Really? How very peculiar. Not my sort of Moderating.
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Ha ha,just had a warning for asking for tickets and the price of them, do you really think I care.
You can get a warning for all sorts of new infringements these days, I’m collecting them like Pokemon cards.
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You can get a warning for all sorts of new infringements these days, I’m collecting them like Pokemon cards.
Like it matters in the grand scheme of life.
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You can get a warning for all sorts of new infringements these days, I’m collecting them like Pokemon cards.
Not from me you don't. But then I am Old School. I just wish for you to behave. I don't have the time or patience beyond that.
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Like it matters in the grand scheme of life.
Did I say it mattered in the grand scheme of life?
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Did I say it mattered in the grand scheme of life?
Did I say you did, just like if the german suspect is never charged, will it matter?
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Did I say you did, just like if the german suspect is never charged, will it matter?
The more interesting question to me is will it matter to some here if he is charged...it seems it will
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Did I say you did, just like if the german suspect is never charged, will it matter?
Is that the best you have to say? No, of course it won't. The likes of you have some serious problems with what amounts to anything.
I am beyond defending The McCanns. You get on and prove me wrong.
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The more interesting question to me is will it matter to some here if he is charged...it seems it will
Come on, Love, it will be a Blood Bath. Or am I only hoping?
I am really sorry that I am a teensy bit cross. I have never understood. But whatever.
I don't always think that you are right. Or even wrong. But you are a bit of a smart arse sometimes.
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I wonder what the naysayers would be saying if the PJ were saying they had strong evidence Maddie was dead and the parents hid the body
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Did I say you did, just like if the german suspect is never charged, will it matter?
Of course it will matter, if he did it then he should be punished.
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Come on, Love, it will be a Blood Bath. Or am I only hoping?
I am really sorry that I am a teensy bit cross. I have never understood. But whatever.
I don't always think that you are right. Or even wrong. But you are a bit of a smart arse sometimes.
I've always been a bit of a smart arse since childhood..I'm right most of the time...that's worth an emoticon.. 8)--))
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I wonder what the naysayers would be saying if the PJ were saying they had strong evidence Maddie was dead and the parents hid the body
We’ve already been there -September 2007 - and as I recall they were absolutely bouncing. In fact bouncing for thr PJ became a thing.
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This was mentioned on another platform, that may be of interest: If German intelligence were able to track Brückner’s mobile phone close to apartment 5A before Madeleine disappeared, they also may have information re. the use of that number after her disappearance. If they were able to track and triangulate his phone usage afterwards, German authorities may have intelligence that they are withholding at this stage (?).
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This was mentioned on another platform, that may be of interest: If German intelligence were able to track Brückner’s mobile phone close to apartment 5A before Madeleine disappeared, they also may have information re. the use of that number after her disappearance. If they were able to track and triangulate his phone usage afterwards, German authorities may have intelligence that they are withholding at this stage (?).
They have actually said they have evidence they wish to keep to themselves for the time being.
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If ,as seems more and more likely, the German police never have enough concrete evidence to charge Brueckner with a part in Madeleine’s disappearance would those who think he is guilty accept the termination of Operation Grange ?
What on earth is that supposed to mean?
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What on earth is that supposed to mean?
I am also interested to know.
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https://www.mz-web.de/sachsen-anhalt/hinweise-verdichten-sich-wurden-maddie-und-inga-opfer-desselben-taeters--36805072
This link contains some more pictures of the crate/box factory Brückner owned in Germany.
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This was mentioned on another platform, that may be of interest: If German intelligence were able to track Brückner’s mobile phone close to apartment 5A before Madeleine disappeared, they also may have information re. the use of that number after her disappearance. If they were able to track and triangulate his phone usage afterwards, German authorities may have intelligence that they are withholding at this stage (?).
Whoever wrote that was speculating without investigating if what they were suggesting was possible imo.
The Germans were able to find that one phone call because OG had, thanks to the PJ, all the mobile phone calls which went through the PdL masts on 2nd-4th May 2007.
The Germans first became aware of Brueckner in 2013, and began to investigate him in 2017. There's no statutary time in the UK for mobile phone companies to keep records of calls; the Home Office wants it to be one year. So the records relating to after 4th May 2007 are most likely long gone. Even if they were still available, the Germans would have to ask the Portuguese to get them imo.
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I am also interested to know.
It means if you think CB is guilty ....but there is not enough evidence to charge..would you accept Grange ends. My answers ...yes...and it may happen with Grange saying they are no longer looking for anyone else...
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https://www.mz-web.de/sachsen-anhalt/hinweise-verdichten-sich-wurden-maddie-und-inga-opfer-desselben-taeters--36805072
This link contains some more pictures of the crate/box factory Brückner owned in Germany.
Amongst items was this, dated 2013.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Whoever wrote that was speculating without investigating if what they were suggesting was possible imo.
The Germans were able to find that one phone call because OG had, thanks to the PJ, all the mobile phone calls which went through the PdL masts on 2nd-4th May 2007.
The Germans first became aware of Brueckner in 2013, and began to investigate him in 2017. There's no statutary time in the UK for mobile phone companies to keep records of calls; the Home Office wants it to be one year. So the records relating to after 4th May 2007 are most likely long gone. Even if they were still available, the Germans would have to ask the Portuguese to get them imo.
Indeed. Everyone is speculating. Phone records after 3 May 2007 may exist but the PJ’s way of doing seems to be not sharing information and intelligence with other investigative authorities.
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They have actually said they have evidence they wish to keep to themselves for the time being.
According to the Portuguese press the police have identified the person who had the phone conversation with Brueckner on the 3rd.
Suspected of killing Maddie had an accomplice at the Ocean Club
Christian Brückner received information from a former employee of the Algarve village, who revealed the habits of the English to him. He told her how long it took them to have dinner and told her that they had valuables in the apartments.
7 Jun 2020
More and more news is linking Christian Brückner, a 43-year-old German, to the kidnapping and possible murder of Madeleine McCann. After it was known that the suspect lived in the area of Praia da Luz at the time of the crime, and that he had a criminal record, it became public that the German would have an "infiltrator" at the Ocean Club, an Algarve village where the McCanns were on vacation, along with a group of friends.
A former employee of the enterprise revealed to the authorities that he passed on information about the habits of the group of Englishmen, including Maddie's family, Christian Brückner. Already previously convicted of petty theft and referenced for sexual abuse of children, the German would have known, through his accomplice, that the various couples used to stay for hours , leaving valuables in the apartments, writes "Correio da Manhã" .
There are several hypotheses about what happened inside the McCanns' apartment, but one of the ones shared by the Portuguese Judiciary Police and the German authorities is that Christian Brückner entered the house to rob her when she noticed the presence of the three children , Maddie and the Twins brothers. Surprised by this fact, and recalling the background related to child abuse, the German decided to take the older one.
Although the authorities are only now considering Christian Brückner as the main suspect in the media case, the German's telephone number has been in the file since 2007, due to the fact that it was one of the devices activated in the vicinity of the village just hours before the disappearance. Maddie's. However, it was only after the suspect told a friend that he knew what happened to the English girl that the PJ made the connection between the number, which the former Ocean Club employee had on his personal agenda, and the German.
In addition to Maddie, Christian Brückner is also being investigated for the disappearance of two other children: a 6-year-old boy , who disappeared from Aljezur in 1996, when the German lived in the Algarve, in the Praia da Luz area, and also in the case of a 5-year-old girl who disappeared during a family outing in a German town, a few kilometers from the suspect's home.
https://magg.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/maddie-cumplice-ocean-club
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Whoever wrote that was speculating without investigating if what they were suggesting was possible imo.
The Germans were able to find that one phone call because OG had, thanks to the PJ, all the mobile phone calls which went through the PdL masts on 2nd-4th May 2007.
The Germans first became aware of Brueckner in 2013, and began to investigate him in 2017. There's no statutary time in the UK for mobile phone companies to keep records of calls; the Home Office wants it to be one year. So the records relating to after 4th May 2007 are most likely long gone. Even if they were still available, the Germans would have to ask the Portuguese to get them imo.
Until we know what the strong/concrete evidence the Germans have is.... writing the investigation off is speculation
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Ref phone call's,there a programme on tv now called "Reported Missing" a guy is missing, his phone pinged but that only gives the neighbourhood, so to say that the German suspect pinged at the ocean club is misleading. I should add it was the next day not 13 yrs after the fact.
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Until we know what the strong/concrete evidence the Germans have is.... writing the investigation off is speculation
I'm not writing an investigation off. I'm highlighting why some speculation probably has no basis in reality.
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I simply do not know. So I can only hope. And you all can do what ever you like. I am so tired of who you think you are. Madeleine was never anything to do with you. Or even me.
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Ref phone call's,there a programme on tv now called "Reported Missing" a guy is missing, his phone pinged but that only gives the neighbourhood, so to say that the German suspect pinged at the ocean club is misleading. I should add it was the next day not 13 yrs after the fact.
So are you conceding that there was a paedophile and rapist in the neighbourhood when Madeleine went missing?
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I've always been a bit of a smart arse since childhood..I'm right most of the time...that's worth an emoticon.. 8)--))
Me too also. But it has been a bit more difficult for me simply because I am female. But when shite comes to bust don't ever under estimate me.
I would like to think you and I have some sort of comprehension but I was never that daft. You have the means while I do not.
I will go on Moderating for God knows what reasons and I will complain now and again. It isn't all a laugh a minute although God knows why not.
But for tonight all will be well..
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So are you comceding that there was a paedophile and rapist in the neighbourhood when Madeleine went missing?
Gerry McCann was shouting about paedophiles almost immediately. It was a big change in his attitude from when he was reassuring his wife a couple of hours earlier.
it just strikes me, in awful retrospect, that, you know, Kate, I think, had done something that she wasn't quite happy with, in leaving the doors unlocked. And that is something again that she is going to beat herself up about for a long time to come because, you know, you, you like think that you acted on your instincts and I think her instinct was that that was something she wasn't really happy to do'...
Gerry had sort of said 'Oh it will be fine', you know. But she was obviously, because it wasn't something she was quite easy with, that's the way it came across, you know, but, but Gerry said, you know, 'It'll be fine. It'll be fine'.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
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Gerry McCann was shouting about paedophiles almost immediately. It was a big change in his attitude from when he was reassuring his wife a couple of hours earlier.
it just strikes me, in awful retrospect, that, you know, Kate, I think, had done something that she wasn't quite happy with, in leaving the doors unlocked. And that is something again that she is going to beat herself up about for a long time to come because, you know, you, you like think that you acted on your instincts and I think her instinct was that that was something she wasn't really happy to do'...
Gerry had sort of said 'Oh it will be fine', you know. But she was obviously, because it wasn't something she was quite easy with, that's the way it came across, you know, but, but Gerry said, you know, 'It'll be fine. It'll be fine'.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
What on earth am I to do with you?
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Gerry McCann was shouting about paedophiles almost immediately. It was a big change in his attitude from when he was reassuring his wife a couple of hours earlier.
it just strikes me, in awful retrospect, that, you know, Kate, I think, had done something that she wasn't quite happy with, in leaving the doors unlocked. And that is something again that she is going to beat herself up about for a long time to come because, you know, you, you like think that you acted on your instincts and I think her instinct was that that was something she wasn't really happy to do'...
Gerry had sort of said 'Oh it will be fine', you know. But she was obviously, because it wasn't something she was quite easy with, that's the way it came across, you know, but, but Gerry said, you know, 'It'll be fine. It'll be fine'.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
What point are you trying to make and what has it got to do with the question I asked Barrier?
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I am also interested to know.
And it’s taken you over a month to ask ?
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This was mentioned on another platform, that may be of interest: If German intelligence were able to track Brückner’s mobile phone close to apartment 5A before Madeleine disappeared, they also may have information re. the use of that number after her disappearance. If they were able to track and triangulate his phone usage afterwards, German authorities may have intelligence that they are withholding at this stage (?).
How interesting. Another possible way forward. Thanks Anthro.
Altho, I personally, doubt that Bruckner was involved in the lifting or the initial carrying off of Madeleine.
He might have been the watcher and organiser, tho'.
Time will tell hopefully.
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https://www.mz-web.de/sachsen-anhalt/hinweise-verdichten-sich-wurden-maddie-und-inga-opfer-desselben-taeters--36805072
This link contains some more pictures of the crate/box factory Brückner owned in Germany.
Thanks Anthro
I bet you had noticed just how pristine the newspaper from February 2013 was. Over 7 years ago
Is that possible with rats/mice etc. around wanting to build nests ?
Anyone wonder if the newspaper lying there was staged? But why? To help fit someone up? By whom ?
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It means if you think CB is guilty ....but there is not enough evidence to charge..would you accept Grange ends. My answers ...yes...and it may happen with Grange saying they are no longer looking for anyone else...
I most definitely would not
By their deafening silence, Op Grange have made it clear, imo, that they do not agree with the German police …. and they are not prepared to share their knowledge. I feel that they are on the cusp of something big.
Perhaps they have proof that Madeleine is still alive?
IMO, the SY investigation must go on, altho sadly with the current financial situation that this country faces, I doubt it can go on much longer.
We are informed that they have a legal cut off date for this investigation and it is fairly soon. Then it will be too late to prosecute, I understand. OG must be supported, without interruptions like the Bruckner Affair, until that date at the very least, imo.
IMHO, the Bruckner Affair has probably just muddied the water … and seriously disrupted OG's efforts.
All strength to your elbow SY
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I most definitely would not
By their deafening silence, Op Grange have made it clear, imo, that they do not agree with the German police …. and they are not prepared to share their knowledge. I feel that they are on the cusp of something big.
Perhaps they have proof that Madeleine is still alive?
IMO, the SY investigation must go on, altho sadly with the current financial situation that this country faces, I doubt it can go on much longer.
We are informed that they have a legal cut off date for this investigation and it is fairly soon. Then it will be too late to prosecute, I understand. OG must be supported, without interruptions like the Bruckner Affair, until that date at the very least, imo.
IMHO, the Bruckner Affair has probably just muddied the water … and seriously disrupted OG's efforts.
All strength to your elbow SY
I think you are wrong on just about every point you raise.
I think SY agree with the Germans that CB is the prime suspect and that this is the lead SY have been following for the past year or so. As they do not have defintive proof maddie is dead then SY continue to traet this as a missing person enquiry. having said that I think even the McCanns accceot Maddie is probably dead.
If there is nothing left to investigate then the investigation has to come to it's natural end. If there are no further leads it cannot carry on...same as the Stephen Lawrence case. That case has been running for 27 years yet no complaints about the money spent or what about the other murdered young men.
the legal cut off date is in portugal...he can still be prosecuted in germany or the Uk for that matter.
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This was mentioned on another platform, that may be of interest: If German intelligence were able to track Brückner’s mobile phone close to apartment 5A before Madeleine disappeared, they also may have information re. the use of that number after her disappearance. If they were able to track and triangulate his phone usage afterwards, German authorities may have intelligence that they are withholding at this stage (?).
I believe this to be correct. Das Plod have him and his girlfriend in the vicinity (2007 mobile technology vicinity) of another crime elsewhere, Germany if memory serves. They have this intel by sifting through the call logs after his name popped out of their original search a couple of years ago. But, once again, they didn't have enough evidence to charge him.
That's what they're withholding, but not from him.
Phone calls, dog alerts and images that weren't found in his possession - that's it guys.
They clearly have an informer who they have faith in, or they wouldn't be able to gather so much info on his movements across a decade. Plus the ease with which they're digging up Lower Saxony with impunity - time, money effort and resources, but the higher ups won't keep sanctioning Time Team when they find nicht.
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I believe this to be correct. Das Plod have him and his girlfriend in the vicinity (2007 mobile technology vicinity) of another crime elsewhere, Germany if memory serves. They have this intel by sifting through the call logs after his name popped out of their original search a couple of years ago. But, once again, they didn't have enough evidence to charge him.
That's what they're withholding, but not from him.
Phone calls, dog alerts and images that weren't found in his possession - that's it guys.
They clearly have an informer who they have faith in, or they wouldn't be able to gather so much info on his movements across a decade. Plus the ease with which they're digging up Lower Saxony with impunity - time, money effort and resources, but the higher ups won't keep sanctioning Time Team when they find nicht.
I would say you are totally mistaken....the fact that you include the alerts as part of the Germans evidence confirms it ...
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I believe this to be correct. Das Plod have him and his girlfriend in the vicinity (2007 mobile technology vicinity) of another crime elsewhere, Germany if memory serves. They have this intel by sifting through the call logs after his name popped out of their original search a couple of years ago. But, once again, they didn't have enough evidence to charge him.
That's what they're withholding, but not from him.
Phone calls, dog alerts and images that weren't found in his possession - that's it guys.
They clearly have an informer who they have faith in, or they wouldn't be able to gather so much info on his movements across a decade. Plus the ease with which they're digging up Lower Saxony with impunity - time, money effort and resources, but the higher ups won't keep sanctioning Time Team when they find nicht.
If the alerts were to Maddie's body they actually rule Breukner out
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If the alerts were to Maddie's body they actually rule Breukner out
Precisely. Unless he killed her, removed the body, brought it back 90 minutes later, then took it away with him again. Mind you, some sceptics believe Gerry did this more or less, so obviously some people will believe anything to make the dog alerts work.
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Precisely. Unless he killed her, removed the body, brought it back 90 minutes later, then took it away with him again. Mind you, some sceptics believe Gerry did this more or less, so obviously some people will believe anything to make the dog alerts work.
unfortunately for the General it rather rubbishes his post and theories
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unfortunately for the General it rather rubbishes his post and theories
I’ve been saying for years the dog alerts are ancient history and entirely irrelevant and the current investigation by three police forces proves it.
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If the alerts were to Maddie's body they actually rule Breukner out
....you catch on quick, so you do.
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....you catch on quick, so you do.
you seem a little confused.
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If the alerts were to Maddie's body they actually rule Breukner out
Well what sort of situations would rule him back in?
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I’ve been saying for years the dog alerts are ancient history and entirely irrelevant and the current investigation by three police forces proves it.
People choose to ignore what Mark Harrison told the PJ before Eddie alerted to McCann related areas and items.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
It seems to me incomprehensible that the PJ should be told that but be expected to forget it when the alerts pointed to something having happened in 5A.
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Well what sort of situations would rule him back in?
"The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property"
An unnamed body - " this is not evidential merely intelligence".
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....you catch on quick, so you do.
Too quick for some...so the dog alerts cannot form part of the German evidence against CB
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Well what sort of situations would rule him back in?
He hasn't been ruled out...Grime never suggested the alerts were to Maddie's body
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If Breukner is being considered as a suspect..which he is...it rather rules out the dog alerts as being in anyway valid..it actually really rubbishes the alerts imo
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If Maddie was abducted by CB...or by a stranger...then she was removed from 5a very quickly...there would be no time for cadaver odour to develop.
What would this say for the alerts...eddie's bevavior supposedly changing as soon as he entered 5a...the dogs only alerting to things McCann. If the investigators see a stranger abduction as s strong possibility then it makes all those claims worthless...as I have said for some time
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People choose to ignore what Mark Harrison told the PJ before Eddie alerted to McCann related areas and items.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
It seems to me incomprehensible that the PJ should be told that but be expected to forget it when the alerts pointed to something having happened in 5A.
I have not chosen to ignore anything and my point still stands.
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Too quick for some...so the dog alerts cannot form part of the German evidence against CB
Why not? Are you sure there are no other reasonable scenarios?
I'm not convinced that he was involved at all, but if you're the po po and you've got a few strands of evidence, concrete or not, then I can see more than one scenario whereby he could be wrapped up in it.
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People choose to ignore what Mark Harrison told the PJ before Eddie alerted to McCann related areas and items.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
It seems to me incomprehensible that the PJ should be told that but be expected to forget it when the alerts pointed to something having happened in 5A.
It's you and the PJ who are ignoring Harrison and cherry picking what he said ...
He said..
No inferences can be drawn from uncorroborated alerts..
That's NO INFERENCES.....
You are accusing others of doing what you yourself are doing
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Why not? Are you sure there are no other reasonable scenarios?
I'm not convinced that he was involved at all, but if you're the po po and you've got a few strands of evidence, concrete or not, then I can see more than one scenario whereby he could be wrapped up in it.
I don't see any reasonable scenarios if CB is involved. Go ahead by all means. If CB is involved the alerts are very very suspect as are the claim that Eddie was excited when entering 5a and the claims of Eddie only alerting to things in 5a.
The fact the Germans and SY consider him a suspect means they are content to disregard the alerts
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I don't see any reasonable scenarios if CB is involved. Go ahead by all means. If CB is involved the alerts are very very suspect as are the claim that Eddie was excited when entering 5a and the claims of Eddie only alerting to things in 5a.
The fact the Germans and SY consider him a suspect means they are content to disregard the alerts
Your last sentence? I don't believe that's true. There's a very plausible scenario where the dog alerts fit.
And SY think he's a suspect now? I thought they were still investigating a very much alive child?
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Your last sentence? I don't believe that's true. There's a very plausible scenario where the dog alerts fit.
And SY think he's a suspect now? I thought they were still investigating a very much alive child?
Explain the scenario...SY are looking for
Madeleine and like the McCanns realise she is almost certainly dead unfortunately
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It's you and the PJ who are ignoring Harrison and cherry picking what he said ...
He said..
No inferences can be drawn from uncorroborated alerts..
That's NO INFERENCES.....
You are accusing others of doing what you yourself are doing
Intelligence and inferences are two different things. In my opinion the German police have, at the moment, intelligence from which they appear to have drawn inferences. They claim to have concrete evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead, but they admit they don't have the evidence needed to charge Brueckner with killing her.
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So are you conceding that there was a paedophile and rapist in the neighbourhood when Madeleine went missing?
So what if there was?
There were probably Bakers & Fishermen nearby too, that doesn't mean Maddie had cake or tuna.
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Intelligence and inferences are two different things. In my opinion the German police have, at the moment, intelligence from which they appear to have drawn inferences. They claim to have concrete evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead, but they admit they don't have the evidence needed to charge Brueckner with killing her.
Harrison said no inferences from these particular alerts...he said this after the searches
The Germans we are told have evidence ...not intelligence...concrete evidence..
They are clearly making one thing clear and that is in their view Maddie's cadaver was not in the apartment long enough to produce cadaver odour. You really should accept this
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Harrison said no inferences from these particular alerts...he said this after the searches
The Germans we are told have evidence ...not intelligence...concrete evidence..
They are clearly making one thing clear and that is in their view Maddie's cadaver was not in the apartment long enough to produce cadaver odour. You really should accept this
Concrete evidence that the child is dead. No forensic evidence though.
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Concrete evidence that the child is dead. No forensic evidence though.
There was no concrete or forensic evidence Susan Pillay died..but a murder conviction
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There was no concrete or forensic evidence Susan Pillay died..but a murder conviction
You seem to be relying on the 'concrete evidence' quote, but leaving out what it was relating to. I was just reminding you it is related to the child's death, not to Brueckner's guilt.
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There was no concrete or forensic evidence Susan Pillay died..but a murder conviction
I don't like it.
Maybe SY have confirmed a belief that Bruckner was the abductor, but I can't recall it. They claim to have concrete evidence, then fail in their searches. That makes me uncomfortable.
And SY just don't seem to me to have backed the German suspicions in any way. Why not ?
But perhaps I have missed something? I think that SY still believe Madeleine is likely alive.
Please convince me otherwise.
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You seem to be relying on the 'concrete evidence' quote, but leaving out what it was relating to. I was just reminding you it is related to the child's death, not to Brueckner's guilt.
You are wrong again...HCW said they have concrete evidence that Maddie is dead and that CB killed her.
I'm amazed how out of touch with the facts some are
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I don't like it.
Maybe SY have confirmed a belief that Bruckner was the abductor, but I can't recall it. They claim to have concrete evidence, then fail in their searches. That makes me uncomfortable.
And SY just don't seem to me to have backed the German suspicions in any way. Why not ?
But perhaps I have missed something? I think that SY still believe Madeleine is likely alive.
Please convince me otherwise.
It's the Germans who have the concrete evidence and I don't see that their searches have failed. I believe SY back the Germans but like the McCanns will not accept death without proof. The Germans as yet haven't shared their concrete evidence.
I think both SY and the McCanns realise Maddie is probably dead
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You are wrong again...HCW said they have concrete evidence that Maddie is dead and that CB killed her.
I'm amazed how out of touch with the facts some are
Are you sure about that? Specically, "and that CB killed her".
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Are you sure about that? Specically, "and that CB killed her".
I'm almost certain ..yes..as I recall it was in the Australian documentary with HCW being interviewed by a blonde reporter..Myster hopefully has the link
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Intelligence and inferences are two different things. In my opinion the German police have, at the moment, intelligence from which they appear to have drawn inferences. They claim to have concrete evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead, but they admit they don't have the evidence needed to charge Brueckner with killing her.
From what we read the German police don't seem to have any concrete evidence. But, maybe they are not prepared to share … as is, it appears, the case with SY.
If the German police have any factual substantial evidence, then why don't they go ahead and prosecute?
But please, please, don't allow them to mess up SY's findings and make a British prosecution unviable.
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From what we read the German police don't seem to have any concrete evidence. But, maybe they are not prepared to share … as is, it appears, the case with SY.
If the German police have any factual substantial evidence, then why don't they go ahead and prosecute?
But please, please, don't allow them to mess up SY's findings and make a British prosecution unviable.
HCW has said clearly he has concrete evidence...I'm going to look for the cite
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I'm almost certain ..yes..as I recall it was in the Australian documentary with HCW being interviewed by a blonde reporter..Myster hopefully has the link
That is the "60 Minutes" documentary. OK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsXXxRek2Q
HCW: CB is Suspect "maybe" killing MM. Not definite. Repeat offender. He lived there. "Brutal rape" 2 years before. Videoed rape??
"Feeling a sense of power"
https://youtu.be/IXsXXxRek2Q?t=526 "strong evidence that the suspect killed her.."
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That is the "60 Minutes" documentary. OK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsXXxRek2Q
Thanks Rob I had just found it...listen from 8.55..... I'm right
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You seem to be relying on the 'concrete evidence' quote, but leaving out what it was relating to. I was just reminding you it is related to the child's death, not to Brueckner's guilt.
I've just listened to it again...you are wrong. From HCW himself..in english...strong evidence that maddie is dead and that our suspect killed her..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsXXxRek2Q&feature=youtu.be at 8.55
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I've just listened to it again...you are wrong. From HCW himself..in english...strong evidence that maddie is dead and that our suspect killed her..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsXXxRek2Q&feature=youtu.be at 8.55
Well they should hurry up & charge him then, rather than libelling him on international TV.
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I've just listened to it again...you are wrong. From HCW himself..in english...strong evidence that maddie is dead and that our suspect killed her..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsXXxRek2Q&feature=youtu.be at 8.55
That is what he said. Only thing I'd question is whether the person killed was in fact Madeleine McCann.
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I think you are wrong on just about every point you raise.
I think SY agree with the Germans that CB is the prime suspect and that this is the lead SY have been following for the past year or so. As they do not have defintive proof maddie is dead then SY continue to traet this as a missing person enquiry. having said that I think even the McCanns accceot Maddie is probably dead.
If there is nothing left to investigate then the investigation has to come to it's natural end. If there are no further leads it cannot carry on...same as the Stephen Lawrence case. That case has been running for 27 years yet no complaints about the money spent or what about the other murdered young men.
the legal cut off date is in portugal...he can still be prosecuted in germany or the Uk for that matter.
I do not disagree that it is very possible that Bruckner was involved in the abduction, but my opinion is that it was an elite mastermind planned abduction and a team was commissioned to carry it out.
It seems likely to me that Bruckner was the team leader and directed the whole 'operation'. But that is just a possibility with a few pointers, which may or may not carry water.
Good that any prosecutions can carry on in the UK (or Germany) if the PT date goes past. Thanks Dave for that info.
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I've just listened to it again...you are wrong. From HCW himself..in english...strong evidence that maddie is dead and that our suspect killed her..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXsXXxRek2Q&feature=youtu.be at 8.55
Strong evidence but not strong enough to arrest him? I think that's BS.
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I guess the 'watchers & lifters' that carried out the abduction weren't communicating by mobile phone.
One half hour conversation hours before Madde disappeared doesn't suggest Brueckner being part of an organised abduction operation.
Maybe the gang had walkies talkies or something, flash light signals with morse code to warn the lifter that Gerry was coming.
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Strong evidence but not strong enough to arrest him? I think that's BS.
What's the evidence against Brueckner,?, Anyone?
I've been waiting for someone to answer this question for the past 2 months & so far there's nothing.
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Strong evidence but not strong enough to arrest him? I think that's BS.
I think your post is BS ...and I've explained why several times
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I do not disagree that it is very possible that Bruckner was involved in the abduction, but my opinion is that it was an elite mastermind planned abduction and a team was commissioned to carry it out.
It seems likely to me that Bruckner was the team leader and directed the whole 'operation'. But that is just a possibility with a few pointers, which may or may not carry water.
Good that any prosecutions can carry on in the UK (or Germany) if the PT date goes past. Thanks Dave for that info.
I see links between Madeleines disappearance, the Joana Cipriano abduction, and the attempted abduction of Carolina Santos. I believe that the elite mastermind attempted to abduct Carolina himself and was vey nearly caught.
Acutely aware of the dangers after this, he decided to use Bruckner and a team he scrambled to do the dirty work in Madeleines case imo.
Could be wrong but these are my musings and there are links. Work them out !
I think it quite likely that the elite mastermind that I talked about, has kept a very low profile and it is possible that whoever ran the abduction team (was it possibly Bruckner?) on site, has probably never ever met or spoken to him.
The whole operation being sectionalised into cells with no-one knowing anything about the next cell up. To protect the elite bosses.
Only my thoughts, but a good deal going for them unless you can prove otherwise.
Now, I must get on
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I see links between Madeleines disappearance, the Joana Cipriano abduction, and the attempted abduction of Carolina Santos. I believe that the elite mastermind attempted to abduct Carolina himself and was vey nearly caught.
Acutely aware of the dangers after this, he decided to use Bruckner and a team he scrambled to do the dirty work in Madeleines case imo.
Could be wrong but these are my musings and there are links. Work them out !
I think it quite likely that the elite mastermind that I talked about, has kept a very low profile and it is possible that whoever ran the abduction team (was it possibly Bruckner?) on site, has probably never ever met or spoken to him.
The whole operation being sectionalised into cells with no-one knowing anything about the next cell up. To protect the elite bosses.
Only my thoughts, but a good deal going for them unless you can prove otherwise.
Now, I must get on
Joana wasn't abducted, stop spreading nonsense.
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What's the evidence against Brueckner,?, Anyone?
I've been waiting for someone to answer this question for the past 2 months & so far there's nothing.
The German Police don't want to tell anyone in case their new suspect finds out, apparently. Because that's how prosecution cases are built in Germany now, find a patsy, fit him up on some dubious phone ping (and dog alerts), then ask the public to help fill the gaps - which are obviously voluminous.
They haven't factored in the fact that his lawyer will be briefing him on a daily basis as to 'developments', as finding nothing are developments too. What is it now, 8-10 weeks? Tumbleweed.
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Ok, no more off topic nonsense about dogs & convicted child killers.
Let's get serious & start listing "the mountain of evidence" (Davel) against Brueckner.
I'll start,
He lived near PDL, owned a mobile phone & had the audacity to use it.
Next....
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So what if there was?
There were probably Bakers & Fishermen nearby too, that doesn't mean Maddie had cake or tuna.
One of your more stupid posts, but thanks for sharing.
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What's the evidence against Brueckner,?, Anyone?
I've been waiting for someone to answer this question for the past 2 months & so far there's nothing.
As far as I'm aware none of the forum members are also members of the German investigative team so why are you expecting one of us to be able to provide answers to a question only they know the answers to? Isn't that just a little bit silly of you and a waste of your valuable time?
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One of your more stupid posts, but thanks for sharing.
'Paedos exist therefore Maddie was abducted' is the one of the dumbest things I've heard, but yeah thanks, you believe that nonsense if you like.
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As far as I'm aware none of the forum members are also members of the German investigative team so why are you expecting one of us to be able to provide answers to a question only they know the answers to? Isn't that just a little bit silly of you and a waste of your valuable time?
Davel has stated that there's a mountain of evidence against Brueckner, so he must know something we don't.
He's not sharing though, he's like sadie who's pointers are top secret.
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Strong evidence but not strong enough to arrest him? I think that's BS.
There was strong evidence That Emile Cilliers tampered with his wife's parachute and tried to kill her the week before in a gas explosion but it took months before they were able to charge him. I suppose you would have poo-poohed that investigation too.
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'Paedos exist therefore Maddie was abducted' is the one of the dumbest things I've heard, but yeah thanks, you believe that nonsense if you like.
But I didn't say that did I?
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Davel has stated that there's a mountain of evidence against Brueckner, so he must know something we don't.
He's not sharing though, he's like sadie who's pointers are top secret.
I don't think he said that either, but you seem desperate to re-write our posts for us. Bored today?
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But I didn't say that did I?
In a round about way you did, unless I misinterpreted it.
What were you suggesting?
'So are you conceding that there was a paedophile and rapist in the neighbourhood when Madeleine went missing?'
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I don't think he said that either, but you seem desperate to re-write our posts for us. Bored today?
He did.
Quote from: Davel on July 13, 2020, 07:49:58 AM
You would need to ask them. What I see is more grasping at straws to implicate the parents. As ive said before...when you have a vacuum you can put any old rubbish in.
What we see again is posters are quick to question the McCanns on the slightest incidence...but want to dismiss the mountain of evidence against Breukner. Fortunately thats not how the police investigation is progressing.
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In a round about way you did, unless I misinterpreted it.
What were you suggesting?
'So are you conceding that there was a paedophile and rapist in the neighbourhood when Madeleine went missing?'
"In the neighbourhood" is the salient point. I did not say paedos exist therefore Madeleine was abducted. Fishermen and bakers you'd expect to find in every small holiday village, violent rapists who are also burglars and paedos not so much, unless you're claiming these are equally as prevalent in PdL?
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"In the neighbourhood" is the salient point. I did not say paedos exist therefore Madeleine was abducted. Fishermen and bakers you'd expect to find in every small holiday village, violent rapists who are also burglars and paedos not so much, unless you're claiming these are equally as prevalent in PdL?
According to Gerry they were.
How he acquired that inside information is anyone's guess.
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There was strong evidence That Emile Cilliers tampered with his wife's parachute and tried to kill her the week before in a gas explosion but it took months before they were able to charge him. I suppose you would have poo-poohed that investigation too.
Really? What was it?
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The German Police don't want to tell anyone in case their new suspect finds out, apparently. Because that's how prosecution cases are built in Germany now, find a patsy, fit him up on some dubious phone ping (and dog alerts), then ask the public to help fill the gaps - which are obviously voluminous.
They haven't factored in the fact that his lawyer will be briefing him on a daily basis as to 'developments', as finding nothing are developments too. What is it now, 8-10 weeks? Tumbleweed.
8 to 10 weeks is nothing from my experience......as I've explained but you dont seem to understand the alerts rule CB out not in ...so that expalins how reliable the investigators rate the alerts
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Joana wasn't abducted, stop spreading nonsense.
ORLY ?
Where is the body then ?
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According to Gerry they were.
How he acquired that inside information is anyone's guess.
It's called a parent's worst fear. I don't suppose you'd understand not being a parent. When I first heard Madeleine had been abducted my first thought was - a paedophile took her. It's not an uncommon thought process to go through when you hear children have disappeared in the night.
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Really? What was it?
What was what?
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It's called a parent's worst fear. I don't suppose you'd understand not being a parent.
Gerry is also a doctor and is likely to have seen physical and mental damage done to children by peados.
Kate too
How doubly dreadful for them
And all that some people seem to want to do is to PUT THE BOOT IN
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Should all reference to the suspect's name be erased on here?
Oh and his lawyer thinks his bestest mate who tried to stitch him up is unreliable,quell surprise.
Madeleine McCann: Suspect Christian B's lawyer says main witness against him is not reliable
A German prosecutor says he believes that Christian B, who cannot be fully identified, abducted Madeleine.
Mr Fulscher told Sky News: "If this is the same person, I think it's the worst witness you can get. A human who has spent his whole life cheating people for his own benefit is never a reliable witness."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bs-lawyer-says-main-witness-against-him-is-not-reliable-12048504
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Should all reference to the suspect's name be erased on here?
Oh and his lawyer thinks his bestest mate who tried to stitch him up is unreliable,quell surprise.
Madeleine McCann: Suspect Christian B's lawyer says main witness against him is not reliable
A German prosecutor says he believes that Christian B, who cannot be fully identified, abducted Madeleine.
Mr Fulscher told Sky News: "If this is the same person, I think it's the worst witness you can get. A human who has spent his whole life cheating people for his own benefit is never a reliable witness."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bs-lawyer-says-main-witness-against-him-is-not-reliable-12048504
Why is his lawyer confirming his client is the suspect
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Why is his lawyer confirming his client is the suspect
Because he read it or heard it, Wolters didn't just appeal to the British sense of fair play did he?
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Should all reference to the suspect's name be erased on here?
Oh and his lawyer thinks his bestest mate who tried to stitch him up is unreliable,quell surprise.
Madeleine McCann: Suspect Christian B's lawyer says main witness against him is not reliable
A German prosecutor says he believes that Christian B, who cannot be fully identified, abducted Madeleine.
Mr Fulscher told Sky News: "If this is the same person, I think it's the worst witness you can get. A human who has spent his whole life cheating people for his own benefit is never a reliable witness."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bs-lawyer-says-main-witness-against-him-is-not-reliable-12048504
Mr Fulscher is doing what he is paid to do and that is to defend rapist and paedophile Brueckner against some equally serious allegations, perhaps more so as missing children cases are being reviewed in relation to him ... I wonder what's everyone else's excuse is?
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Should all reference to the suspect's name be erased on here?
Oh and his lawyer thinks his bestest mate who tried to stitch him up is unreliable,quell surprise.
Madeleine McCann: Suspect Christian B's lawyer says main witness against him is not reliable
A German prosecutor says he believes that Christian B, who cannot be fully identified, abducted Madeleine.
Mr Fulscher told Sky News: "If this is the same person, I think it's the worst witness you can get. A human who has spent his whole life cheating people for his own benefit is never a reliable witness."
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bs-lawyer-says-main-witness-against-him-is-not-reliable-12048504
- Mr Fulscher told Sky News: "If this is the same person, I think it's the worst witness you can get. A human who has spent his whole life cheating people for his own benefit is never a reliable witness."
Whereas my client, is a very friendly man you know.
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CB didn't just talk about Madeleine in front of the witness, there were other people present from what I read.
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Because he read it or heard it, Wolters didn't just appeal to the British sense of fair play did he?
So its ok to repeat the ID of the suspect ...not avery bright lawyer is he
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So its ok to repeat the ID of the suspect ...not avery bright lawyer is he
Where did he do that Davel?
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Where did he do that Davel?
CBs lawer has cofirmed his client is the suspect that HCW is refferring to by his own statements
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CBs lawer has cofirmed his client is the suspect that HCW is refferring to by his own statements
Did he ever deny that it was his client that Wolters alluded to and more importantly the lead investigators the brit press named?
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I go along with Brückner’s inmate and housemate friend, Tatschl, that it is probable that Brückner took Madeleine from her bed but that he didn’t kill her, but rather sold or passed her on for whatever reason.
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It's called a parent's worst fear. I don't suppose you'd understand not being a parent. When I first heard Madeleine had been abducted my first thought was - a paedophile took her. It's not an uncommon thought process to go through when you hear children have disappeared in the night.
The only reason you heard that Madeleine had been abducted is that her parents said that's what had happened.
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The only reason you heard that Madeleine had been abducted is that her parents said that's what had happened.
So, do you equate ‘taken’ and ‘abduction’? I am asking because ‘taken’ apparently was Kate’s first response.
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The only reason you heard that Madeleine had been abducted is that her parents said that's what had happened.
Again, I don’t know what point you are trying to make but pointless asking you to explain what relevance this has to my post as you usually ignore my requests for clarification.
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Did he ever deny that it was his client that Wolters alluded to and more importantly the lead investigators the brit press named?
I too was dismayed when Brueckner's name was flagged up to the press pack by Gonclo Amaral. I really would like to know the motivation behind his apparent desperation to do so.
Gonçalo Amaral predicted, a year ago, a German suspect in the Maddie case
Gonçalo Amaral, previu, há mais de um ano, que a polícia britânica ia apontar a investigação para "um pedófilo", "detido na Alemanha" como suspeito do rapto de Madeleine McCann, em 2007, no Algarve.
Gonçalo Amaral, predicted, more than a year ago, that the British police would point the investigation at "a pedophile", "detained in Germany" as a suspect in the kidnapping of Madeleine McCann, in 2007, in the Algarve.
A polícia britânica "prepara-se para encerrar a investigação com um pedófilo germânico que está preso neste momento", disse Gonçalo Amaral, em abril de 2019, em entrevista concedida ao "podcast" do canal de televisão australiano "Nine".
British police "are preparing to end the investigation with a German pedophile who is currently in prison," Gonçalo Amaral said in April 2019 in an interview with the Australian television channel "Nine" podcast
"A caravana em que vivia foi enviada para a Alemanha para testes, mas nada foi encontrado", disse Gonçalo Amaral, acrescentou o ex-inspetor da Polícia Judiciária, que liderou a investigação ao desaparecimento de Maddie durante os primeiros cinco meses.
"The caravan he lived in was sent to Germany for testing, but nothing was found," said Gonçalo Amaral, added the former Judicial Police inspector, who led the investigation into Maddie's disappearance during the first five months.
Foi investigado pela Polícia Judiciária na altura e foi descartado quando o caso acabou", disse Gonçalo Amaral, especificando que o suspeito alemão era um agressor sexual, a cumprir pena na Alemanha, e que vivia no Algarve na altura do desaparecimento de Maddie, na praia da da Luz, a 3 de maio de 2007.
It was investigated by the Judiciary Police at the time and was discarded when the case was over, "said Gonçalo Amaral, specifying that the German suspect was a sex offender, serving a sentence in Germany, and that he lived in the Algarve at the time of Maddie's disappearance, on the beach. da Luz, on May 3, 2007.
https://www.jn.pt/justica/goncalo-amaral-previu-ha-um-ano-aparecimetno-de-um-suspeito-alemao-no-caso-maddie-12280210.html
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The only reason you heard that Madeleine had been abducted is that her parents said that's what had happened.
And you believe they lied ?
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And you believe they lied ?
G-Unit doesn’t do belief, just wondering.
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And you believe they lied ?
I don't know. All I can say is they've failed to convince me that their opinion of what happened to Madeleine is correct.
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I don't know. All I can say is they've failed to convince me that their opinion of what happened to Madeleine is correct.
It’s an opinion. They were there. It’s their child. In my opinion they have more right to have an opinion about it than you do.
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It’s an opinion. They were there. It’s their child. In my opinion they have more right to have an opinion about it than you do.
I'm under no obligation to accept their opinions though.
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It’s an opinion. They were there. It’s their child. In my opinion they have more right to have an opinion about it than you do.
Actually I rather think the word "opinion" as promulgated by Amaral and his supporters is vastly misused when it comes to actually witnessing and experiencing an event.
As a witness one recounts what actually happened from one's viewpoint and that is an experience unique to the witness.
It is not an 'opinion' it is a statement of what happened. It was not Kate's opinion that Madeleine was missing from her bed ... it was a statement of fact.
As we all know Amaral had many opinions most of which were entirely wrong. To name but two- Amaral is of the opinion that Madeleine was poisoned with Calpol
- Amaral is of the opinion that Madeleine's body was frozen and then thawed out in the back of the hired Renault to slosh around
We know this is his opinion because he wrote a book saying so and he has spent thirteen years of his life repeating it to any who will listen.
Perhaps now with the turn of events it is time people questioned Amaral's opinions with the same scrutiny given to the McCanns in their unrelenting fight on Madeleine's behalf.
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I'm under no obligation to accept their opinions though.
I’m sure they are crying in their sleep about it.
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I'm under no obligation to accept their opinions though.
That is absolutely of no importance
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Actually I rather think the word "opinion" as promulgated by Amaral and his supporters is vastly misused when it comes to actually witnessing and experiencing an event.
As a witness one recounts what actually happened from one's viewpoint and that is an experience unique to the witness.
It is not an 'opinion' it is a statement of what happened. It was not Kate's opinion that Madeleine was missing from her bed ... it was a statement of fact.
As we all know Amaral had many opinions most of which were entirely wrong. To name but two- Amaral is of the opinion that Madeleine was poisoned with Calpol
- Amaral is of the opinion that Madeleine's body was frozen and then thawed out in the back of the hired Renault to slosh around
We know this is his opinion because he wrote a book saying so and he has spent thirteen years of his life repeating it to any who will listen.
Perhaps now with the turn of events it is time people questioned Amaral's opinions with the same scrutiny given to the McCanns in their unrelenting fight on Madeleine's behalf.
It is indeed a fact that Madeleine was missing from her bed; no-one denies that. Abduction isn't a fact, though, it's an opinion.
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It is indeed a fact that Madeleine was missing from her bed; no-one denies that. Abduction isn't a fact, though, it's an opinion.
An opinion based on evidence. Just as most court verdicts are not a facts but an opinions.
It isn't factual to say maddie was not abducted by aliens from another planet.....but its highly improbable
remember the interim report by almeida was aso just opinion.
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It is indeed a fact that Madeleine was missing from her bed; no-one denies that. Abduction isn't a fact, though, it's an opinion.
It’s not just an opinion, it’s also the most plausible and logical explanation which is why abduction is what 3 police forces are currently investigating.
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An opinion based on evidence. Just as most court verdicts are not a facts but an opinions.
It isn't factual to say maddie was not abducted by aliens from another planet.....but its highly improbable
remember the interim report by almeida was aso just opinion.
The evidence I have seen mentioned is not all that convincing. It probably wasn't enough to trigger an amber alert, for example.
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It’s not just an opinion, it’s also the most plausible and logical explanation which is why abduction is what 3 police forces are currently investigating.
I have seen nothing that says the PJ are investigating an abduction.
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The evidence I have seen mentioned is not all that convincing. It probably wasn't enough to trigger an amber alert, for example.
Amber alerts aren’t usually issued after long and careful consideration of all the evidence I didn’t think?
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I have seen nothing that says the PJ are investigating an abduction.
They’ve named CB as their chief suspect, what do you think they suspect him of?
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They’ve named CB as their chief suspect, what do you think they suspect him of?
They have? even OG haven't named anyone.
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They’ve named CB as their chief suspect, what do you think they suspect him of?
Not sure on that claim.
Senior Portuguese police official claims German 'prime suspect' Christian Brueckner is INNOCENT of Maddie McCann murder, and was thoroughly investigated four years ago
The police official said there is 'no evidence' Christian Brueckner was involved
The former Policia Judiciaria chief said no reasons to charge him were found
This comes after Met Police launched a new Madeleine McCann appeal this week
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397265/German-prime-suspect-Maddie-McCann-case-Christian-Brueckner-INNOCENT-says-Portuguese-police.html
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Not sure on that claim.
Senior Portuguese police official claims German 'prime suspect' Christian Brueckner is INNOCENT of Maddie McCann murder, and was thoroughly investigated four years ago
The police official said there is 'no evidence' Christian Brueckner was involved
The former Policia Judiciaria chief said no reasons to charge him were found
This comes after Met Police launched a new Madeleine McCann appeal this week
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397265/German-prime-suspect-Maddie-McCann-case-Christian-Brueckner-INNOCENT-says-Portuguese-police.html
So according to this article the PJ consider Cb innocent because there was involved and no reason to charge him....equals innocence
The McCanns ...no evidence according to Da Carmo...not charged...equals not innocent
Its laughable ....but there again its Portugal and the daily mail
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Not sure on that claim.
Senior Portuguese police official claims German 'prime suspect' Christian Brueckner is INNOCENT of Maddie McCann murder, and was thoroughly investigated four years ago
The police official said there is 'no evidence' Christian Brueckner was involved
The former Policia Judiciaria chief said no reasons to charge him were found
This comes after Met Police launched a new Madeleine McCann appeal this week
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397265/German-prime-suspect-Maddie-McCann-case-Christian-Brueckner-INNOCENT-says-Portuguese-police.html
I'm not interested in what the former police chief has to say, there was certainly acknowledgement recently reported in the press that the PJ are involved in investigating CB.
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Of course this is one news report that the sceptics will have no problem in dismissing
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-fundamental-evidence-22339764
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Quite obviously the police are working on the information they have and we will find that out what that may be in the fullness of time ... and it seems there will be no immediate rush for that as it seems Brueckner will be going nowhere any time soon.
I think you are right to be concerned about Madeleine's siblings though. Well done you to think about them.
Why don't you and I make a start on a campaign to encourage immediate removal of the filth and misinformation which has been posted about them and their family over the past thirteen years.
That would at least be a start in trying to make life as normal as possible for them at a fraught time like this.
You have totally got the wrong end of the stick.
The mccs are only victims of thdere own actions wich was totally irresponsable they were the grown ups and have to suffer the consequences IMO.
Maddie and twins were babies dependant on the mccs protection and were left to there fate with the action of there parents.
As yet no one knows what happened to maddie and still no proof of abduction.
My point about the twins is it is them who are still suffering through no fault of there own.
Probably listening/reading every day of what could have happened to Maddie.
No one knows what they must and will be going through...or what there thoughts are on all this.
It isn't right by any standard to continually protect the mccs and not the carnage they left behind IMO.
You dont know what happened ..I have sympathy for the twins certainly not the mccs
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So according to this article the PJ consider Cb innocent because there was involved and no reason to charge him....equals innocence
The McCanns ...no evidence according to Da Carmo...not charged...equals not innocent
Its laughable ....but there again its Portugal and the daily mail
The PJ have spoken officially, make of it what you will;
'The PJ confirms that as part of the investigation into the disappearance of a British child in the Algarve in 2007, measures are still being taken to clarify completely the situation.
'Through close coordination with the German authorities (BKA) and the Metropolitan Police, through the sharing of information and the undertaking of formal investigative and expert work, in Portugal and abroad, material was collected that indicates the possible involvement of a German national in the disappearance of the child.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387125/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-discussed-online-chatroom-years-later.html
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Amber alerts aren’t usually issued after long and careful consideration of all the evidence I didn’t think?
Amber alerts are designed for instantaneous implementation when a child goes missing using all forms of media and publicity to alert immediate and wider communities.
In America for example, where it originated many children have been saved as a direct result of speed of action.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_alert
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Not sure on that claim.
Senior Portuguese police official claims German 'prime suspect' Christian Brueckner is INNOCENT of Maddie McCann murder, and was thoroughly investigated four years ago
The police official said there is 'no evidence' Christian Brueckner was involved
The former Policia Judiciaria chief said no reasons to charge him were found
This comes after Met Police launched a new Madeleine McCann appeal this week
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397265/German-prime-suspect-Maddie-McCann-case-Christian-Brueckner-INNOCENT-says-Portuguese-police.html
A Portuguese police source said the new evidence against the German is "overwhelming" https://hugogloss.uol.com.br/mundo/caso-madeleine-mccann-policia-portuguesa-confirma-que-provas-contra-novo-suspeito-sao-contundentes-saiba-detalhes/
I am sure the real Portuguese police have been instrumental in much of the evidence gathering in relation to Brueckner, unless anyone anyone can come up with a better explanation for the Germans having the forensic evidence which confirmed his guilt in the American woman's rape.
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You have totally got the wrong end of the stick.
The mccs are only victims of thdere own actions wich was totally irresponsable they were the grown ups and have to suffer the consequences IMO.
Maddie and twins were babies dependant on the mccs protection and were left to there fate with the action of there parents.
As yet no one knows what happened to maddie and still no proof of abduction.
My point about the twins is it is them who are still suffering through no fault of there own.
Probably listening/reading every day of what could have happened to Maddie.
No one knows what they must and will be going through...or what there thoughts are on all this.
It isn't right by any standard to continually protect the mccs and not the carnage they left behind IMO.
You dont know what happened ..I have sympathy for the twins certainly not the mccs
You are the one who appears to lack the understanding that Madeleine McCann is the victim of a heinous crime and the perpetrator of that crime is the only person responsible for it.
In my opinion blind hatred for Madeleine's parents is damaging for Madeleine and her siblings. Hatred is a destructive emotion particularly if children are affected by it and in my opinion the McCann children neither need your type of 'sympathy' nor would they thank you for your claim to have it for them.
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You are the one who appears to lack the understanding that Madeleine McCann is the victim of a heinous crime and the perpetrator of that crime is the only person responsible for it.
In my opinion blind hatred for Madeleine's parents is damaging for Madeleine and her siblings. Hatred is a destructive emotion particularly if children are affected by it and in my opinion the McCann children neither need your type of 'sympathy' nor would they thank you for your claim to have it for them.
I believe the mccs would feel exactly the same anout your sympathy for them, all you all often do is put fuel on the fire to keep it going so jump down off that pedistal you have put yourself on.
You do them no favours whatsoever. As for blind hatred thats your words not mine.
I just think they are involved and there is nothing as yet to say they are not.
Its talking a lot of time effort and money to clear them IMO Seems an imopssible job
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I believe the mccs would feel exactly the same anout your sympathy for them, all you all often do is put fuel on the fire to keep it going so jump down off that pedistal you have put yourself on.
You do them no favours whatsoever. As for blind hatred thats your words not mine.
I just think they are involved and there is nothing as yet to say they are not.
Its talking a lot of time effort and money to clear them IMO Seems an imopssible job
The time and money being taken and spent by three current Investigations is to find the person responsible for Madeleine's abduction.
Not to "clear" her parents.
They are not under investigation.
CB is!
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The time and money being taken and spent by three current Investigations is to find the person responsible for Madeleine's abduction.
Not to "clear" her parents.
They are not under investigation.
CB is!
They are not cleared either.. seems to me just not enough evidence to stand alone.
Asfor CB being under investigation seems to mean nothing
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They are not cleared either.. seems to me just not enough evidence to stand alone.
Asfor CB being under investigation seems to mean nothing
Are Madeleine's parents presently being investigated by any police force?
Is CB presently the subject of current police investigations?
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I believe the mccs would feel exactly the same anout your sympathy for them, all you all often do is put fuel on the fire to keep it going so jump down off that pedistal you have put yourself on.
You do them no favours whatsoever. As for blind hatred thats your words not mine.
I just think they are involved and there is nothing as yet to say they are not.
Its talking a lot of time effort and money to clear them IMO Seems an imopssible job
In my opinion you are in denial ... but that is entirely your problem and I don't suppose there is anything you can do about it.
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They are not cleared either.. seems to me just not enough evidence to stand alone.
Asfor CB being under investigation seems to mean nothing
It means nothing to you, but really who cares what it means to you?
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I go along with Brückner’s inmate and housemate friend, Tatschl, that it is probable that Brückner took Madeleine from her bed but that he didn’t kill her, but rather sold or passed her on for whatever reason.
Immediately before Madeleine vanished, he talked about having a lot of money coming in for a dirty job didn't he ? Personally, from other facts passed on to SY and what has gone on historically, I am inclined to think that, if he was involved, he was commissioned.
But it is noticeable that Bruckner has never actually touched a child, as far as we know. But have I missed something ?
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Immediately before Madeleine vanished, he talked about having a lot of money coming in for a dirty job didn't he ? Personally, from other facts passed on to SY and what has gone on historically, I am inclined to think that, if he was involved, he was commissioned.
But it is noticeable that Bruckner has never actually touched a child, as far as we know. But have I missed something ?
He features in images on the memory sticks he left buried but not in what context.
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Immediately before Madeleine vanished, he talked about having a lot of money coming in for a dirty job didn't he ? Personally, from other facts passed on to SY and what has gone on historically, I am inclined to think that, if he was involved, he was commissioned.
But it is noticeable that Bruckner has never actually touched a child, as far as we know. But have I missed something ?
In that documentary didn't the German police say he had 17 offences against his name. We don't know the full list of crimes he has been convicted of.
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In my opinion you are in denial ... but that is entirely your problem and I don't suppose there is anything you can do about it.
Or you.
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Are Madeleine's parents presently being investigated by any police force?
Is CB presently the subject of current police investigations?
Yes and the way its going will come to nothing ...like predicted in the first place.
But you never know what could get dragged up in the prosses if they think Maddie is dead.
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Immediately before Madeleine vanished, he talked about having a lot of money coming in for a dirty job didn't he ? Personally, from other facts passed on to SY and what has gone on historically, I am inclined to think that, if he was involved, he was commissioned.
But it is noticeable that Bruckner has never actually touched a child, as far as we know. But have I missed something ?
Yes, Sadie. He said that he has a horrible job to do tomorrow in PdL and that she will not see him for a while. He has been convicted for sexual assault but as far as I know there is no murder charge/s against him. I too think he has been commissioned and is part of a much bigger investigation and that that is also the reason why the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance is been kept alive and on-going.
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In that documentary didn't the German police say he had 17 offences against his name. We don't know the full list of crimes he has been convicted of.
Here is a timeline:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/04/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-a-timeline
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Immediately before Madeleine vanished, he talked about having a lot of money coming in for a dirty job didn't he ? Personally, from other facts passed on to SY and what has gone on historically, I am inclined to think that, if he was involved, he was commissioned.
But it is noticeable that Bruckner has never actually touched a child, as far as we know. But have I missed something ?
What interests me is his visit to Sylt during the summer of 2007. If Madeleine was taken to order, this island may be of significance. My opinion.
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Yes and the way its going will come to nothing ...like predicted in the first place.
But you never know what could get dragged up in the prosses if they think Maddie is dead.
Or it might lead to a successful prosecution...
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Immediately before Madeleine vanished, he talked about having a lot of money coming in for a dirty job didn't he ? Personally, from other facts passed on to SY and what has gone on historically, I am inclined to think that, if he was involved, he was commissioned.
But it is noticeable that Bruckner has never actually touched a child, as far as we know. But have I missed something ?
He has previously molested children. Brueckner served 18 months in prison for a sex attack on a young girl in his homeland when he was a teen. When he was 17 years old he was convicted in Germany for burglaries and sex crimes.
He molested a six-year-old girl in Bavaria, in 1994, only stopping when she began to scream and cry.
A thoroughly nasty POS.
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What interests me is his visit to Sylt during the summer of 2007. If Madeleine was taken to order, this island may be of significance. My opinion.
Besides being a proper paedo, he was a surf bum - hence the array of vans.
I've been to Sylt twice - it's a haven for surfers - there's not much else there.
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Besides being a proper paedo, he was a surf bum - hence the array of vans.
I've been to Sylt twice - it's a haven for surfers - there's not much else there.
The island is also said to be popular amongst the rich and famous with very expensive property?
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The island is also said to be popular amongst the rich and famous with very expensive property?
The paperwork, obtained exclusively by The Sun, was used to hold paedophile Christian B when he fled to Italy in 2018.
It said he and a man named as Alexander Zaspel had been shipping drugs to the northern German holiday isle of Sylt.
Christian B used cash from the Algarve (https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/148156/algarve-burglar-stole-laptop-moments-before-bungled-break-in/) burglaries to buy two kilograms 8,000 Euro worth of marijuana (https://www.thesun.co.uk/topic/cannabis-legalisation/) from a source in Berlin and with Zaspel sold it for 10,000 Euro.
With the profit they bought a further eight kilograms of marijuana making another 16,000 Euro and the drugs were supplied to pubs and clubs on the German holiday island of Sylt popular with footballers and VIPs.
Both were eventually arrested and convicted in 2011 but Christian B (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11880061/maddie-mccann-suspect-mobile-home-kids-clothes/) failed to serve his sentence and was caught in Milan after reporting his passport stolen.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/)
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The paperwork, obtained exclusively by The Sun, was used to hold paedophile Christian B when he fled to Italy in 2018.
It said he and a man named as Alexander Zaspel had been shipping drugs to the northern German holiday isle of Sylt.
Christian B used cash from the Algarve (https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/148156/algarve-burglar-stole-laptop-moments-before-bungled-break-in/) burglaries to buy two kilograms 8,000 Euro worth of marijuana (https://www.thesun.co.uk/topic/cannabis-legalisation/) from a source in Berlin and with Zaspel sold it for 10,000 Euro.
With the profit they bought a further eight kilograms of marijuana making another 16,000 Euro and the drugs were supplied to pubs and clubs on the German holiday island of Sylt popular with footballers and VIPs.
Both were eventually arrested and convicted in 2011 but Christian B (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11880061/maddie-mccann-suspect-mobile-home-kids-clothes/) failed to serve his sentence and was caught in Milan after reporting his passport stolen.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/)
Thank you for the information, Myster.
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The paperwork, obtained exclusively by The Sun, was used to hold paedophile Christian B when he fled to Italy in 2018.
It said he and a man named as Alexander Zaspel had been shipping drugs to the northern German holiday isle of Sylt.
Christian B used cash from the Algarve (https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/148156/algarve-burglar-stole-laptop-moments-before-bungled-break-in/) burglaries to buy two kilograms 8,000 Euro worth of marijuana (https://www.thesun.co.uk/topic/cannabis-legalisation/) from a source in Berlin and with Zaspel sold it for 10,000 Euro.
With the profit they bought a further eight kilograms of marijuana making another 16,000 Euro and the drugs were supplied to pubs and clubs on the German holiday island of Sylt popular with footballers and VIPs.
Both were eventually arrested and convicted in 2011 but Christian B (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11880061/maddie-mccann-suspect-mobile-home-kids-clothes/) failed to serve his sentence and was caught in Milan after reporting his passport stolen.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/)
Not a hint of abduction when drugs are so profitable.
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Not a hint of abduction when drugs are so profitable.
If he did abduct MM it wasn't to sell her to the highest bidder.
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The island is also said to be popular amongst the rich and famous with very expensive property?
It is now, not when I was there, admittedly. It's basically a giant sand bar - obviously much has changed since.
It's a great spot, I know that much.
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What interests me is his visit to Sylt during the summer of 2007. If Madeleine was taken to order, this island may be of significance. My opinion.
I didn't know that. How interesting. Sylt, where he was arrested from, for his drug running offences IIRC. This island may indeed have a significance, there is something, only minor at present, about it
Thank you Anthro
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I didn't know that. How interesting. Sylt, where he was arrested from, for his drug running offences IIRC. This island may indeed have a significance, there is something, only minor at present, about it
Thank you Anthro
I’ll pm you, Sadie.
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Here is a timeline:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/04/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-a-timeline
Thanks Athro.
"Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brückner: a timeline
German suspect’s previous convictions include sexual abuse of child and rape of woman, 72
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brückner fled police in 1995
1994
Convicted of sexual abuse of a child, attempted sexual abuse of a child, and carrying out sexual acts in front of a child.
1995
Flees to Portugal as an 18-year-old to escape a two-year youth custody sentence for the above offences.
1999
Returns to Germany to serve a youth custody sentence he had escaped.
2004-5
Dates an English woman in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
2005
Rapes a 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz.
2006
Portuguese authorities drop the rape investigation due to lack of evidence.
2006
Arrested and convicted for stealing diesel fuel in Portugal.
2007
Madeleine McCann disappears from Praia da Luz.
2007
Buys marihuana and hashish and sells it to a middle-man on the northern German island of Sylt, where it is sold on.
2012
Opens a kiosk in Braunschweig, in north-west Germany.
2013
McCanns appeal to the German public on TV for evidence over Madeleine’s disappearance. Brückner’s name crops up in connection with the case.
2017
Convicted of sexual abuse of a child in Germany and sentenced to 15 months in prison.
2018
Arrested in Milan and returned to Germany.
2019
August – charged with the rape of a US citizen.
2019
December – convicted. Sentenced to seven years for the rape. Prison term not yet started pending an appeal that the conviction was unlawful but he is being held in police custody."
Doesn't add up to 17 convictions. Maybe I misheard what was said in the "60 Minutes" Documentary.
https://youtu.be/IXsXXxRek2Q?t=190
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Thanks Athro.
"Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brückner: a timeline
German suspect’s previous convictions include sexual abuse of child and rape of woman, 72
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brückner fled police in 1995
1994
Convicted of sexual abuse of a child, attempted sexual abuse of a child, and carrying out sexual acts in front of a child.
1995
Flees to Portugal as an 18-year-old to escape a two-year youth custody sentence for the above offences.
1999
Returns to Germany to serve a youth custody sentence he had escaped.
2004-5
Dates an English woman in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
2005
Rapes a 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz.
2006
Portuguese authorities drop the rape investigation due to lack of evidence.
2006
Arrested and convicted for stealing diesel fuel in Portugal.
2007
Madeleine McCann disappears from Praia da Luz.
2007
Buys marihuana and hashish and sells it to a middle-man on the northern German island of Sylt, where it is sold on.
2012
Opens a kiosk in Braunschweig, in north-west Germany.
2013
McCanns appeal to the German public on TV for evidence over Madeleine’s disappearance. Brückner’s name crops up in connection with the case.
2017
Convicted of sexual abuse of a child in Germany and sentenced to 15 months in prison.
2018
Arrested in Milan and returned to Germany.
2019
August – charged with the rape of a US citizen.
2019
December – convicted. Sentenced to seven years for the rape. Prison term not yet started pending an appeal that the conviction was unlawful but he is being held in police custody."
Doesn't add up to 17 convictions. Maybe I misheard what was said in the "60 Minutes" Documentary.
I don't know but some of the convictions may be multiple
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I don't know but some of the convictions may be multiple
You're probably right.
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The paperwork, obtained exclusively by The Sun, was used to hold paedophile Christian B when he fled to Italy in 2018.
It said he and a man named as Alexander Zaspel had been shipping drugs to the northern German holiday isle of Sylt.
Christian B used cash from the Algarve (https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/148156/algarve-burglar-stole-laptop-moments-before-bungled-break-in/) burglaries to buy two kilograms 8,000 Euro worth of marijuana (https://www.thesun.co.uk/topic/cannabis-legalisation/) from a source in Berlin and with Zaspel sold it for 10,000 Euro.
With the profit they bought a further eight kilograms of marijuana making another 16,000 Euro and the drugs were supplied to pubs and clubs on the German holiday island of Sylt popular with footballers and VIPs.
Both were eventually arrested and convicted in 2011 but Christian B (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11880061/maddie-mccann-suspect-mobile-home-kids-clothes/) failed to serve his sentence and was caught in Milan after reporting his passport stolen.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11890671/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-left-portugal-days-before-her-disappearance-to-set-up-drugs-network/)
‘These drug-dealing transactions commenced after Brueckner — who is reportedly a potential psychopath — returned from Portugal to Germany in 2007 and then continued into the following year. Importantly, Brueckner left Portugal only days after Madeleine McCann’s May 2007 disappearance’.
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He has previously molested children. Brueckner served 18 months in prison for a sex attack on a young girl in his homeland when he was a teen. When he was 17 years old he was convicted in Germany for burglaries and sex crimes.
He molested a six-year-old girl in Bavaria, in 1994, only stopping when she began to scream and cry.
A thoroughly nasty POS.
Agreed, John, about his being a thoroughly nasty POW.
But what you are quoting is child molestation and not necessarily child sexual assault as we know it. In some countries … and I do not know if Germany is amongst them … child molestation can mean exposing yourself to a child and not even touching the child. Foul though that is, it hardly rates against child sexual assault as we know it in the UK
It would be interesting to know exactly what Bruckners level of child molestation was, then we can get a better understanding of the likelyhood of his abducting Madeleine.
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Agreed, John, about his being a thoroughly nasty POW.
But what you are quoting is child molestation and not necessarily child sexual assault as we know it. In some countries … and I do not know if Germany is amongst them … child molestation can mean exposing yourself to a child and not even touching the child. Foul though that is, it hardly rates against child sexual assault as we know it in the UK
It would be interesting to know exactly what Bruckners level of child molestation was, then we can get a better understanding of the likelyhood of his abducting Madeleine.
I don't think e need anymore to consider him a realistic suspect...HCW says he has strong evidence CB killed Maddie..that's pretty damning
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I don't think e need anymore to consider him a realistic suspect...HCW says he has strong evidence CB killed Maddie..that's pretty damning
So damning that he can't charge him.
He can't even talk to him.
It brings to mind the famous Klingon proverb - leghlaHchu'be'chugh mIn lo'laHbe' taj jej
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I don't think e need anymore to consider him a realistic suspect...HCW says he has strong evidence CB killed Maddie..that's pretty damning
I think that we must be careful not to fall into the same trap that the sceptics did, when one man, Goncalo Amaral, said things that turned out to be incorrect. The sceptics believed him, hook, line and sinker and as we all know much was incorrect.
Dave, with all due respect, Wolters has made his statement and if he should have it wrong, like Amaral did, it is going to be damned hard and a huge embarrassment for him to rescind it. Remember, he has a global audience.
I know that it is not likely that he has it wrong, but I am concerned that his considerable efforts to prove his words seem to have come to nowt.
I also notice that SY don't seem to be responding as would have been expected.
Perhaps I have missed something, cos at the moment I am not able to manage to read all the posts even … on the fifth week of anti-biotics and things seem to be on the mend, but they, or the infection, have tired me for some reason
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So damning that he can't charge him.
He can't even talk to him.
It brings to mind the famous Klingon proverb - leghlaHchu'be'chugh mIn lo'laHbe' taj jej
HCW has explained why he isn't interviewing CB ...might be best to wait and see what happens
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I think that we must be careful not to fall into the same trap that the sceptics did, when one man, Goncalo Amaral, said things that turned out to be incorrect. The sceptics believed him, hook, line and sinker and as we all know much was incorrect.
Dave, with all due respect, Wolters has made his statement and if he should have it wrong, like Amaral did, it is going to be damned hard and a huge embarrassment for him to rescind it. Remember, he has a global audience.
I know that it is not likely that he has it wrong, but I am concerned that his considerable efforts to prove his words seem to have come to nowt.
I also notice that SY don't seem to be responding as would have been expected.
Perhaps I have missed something, cos at the moment I am not able to manage to read all the posts even … on the fifth week of anti-biotics and things seem to be on the mend, but they, or the infection, have tired me for some reason
I don't think I'm taking into any trap and I think HCW is in a different league to Amaral.
We need to wait and see but it is obvious those who didn't think an abduction was possible are doing everything they can to deny that CB could be a realistic suspect
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I don't think I'm taking into any trap and I think HCW is in a different league to Amaral.
We need to wait and see but it is obvious those who didn't think an abduction was possible are doing everything they can to deny that CB could be a realistic suspect
Of course Brueckner is a realistic suspect.
In my opinion he should have been traced and and at the least questioned back in 2007. The police did know about him then and if they hadn't spent so long intensively investigating the minutiae of the McCann and their friends' phone traffic they might even have noticed a call to Brueckner's cell located in Luz before Madeleine went missing.
If there was reason to speak to Brueckner in 2007 ... and we know there was one futile attempt to do so ... there is now substantially more reason to have added him to the list not only as a realistic suspect but as the prime suspect.
I think the Germans have been doing an excellent amount of work on this and I am sure that there are sound operational reasons for the time it has and is taking.
I have strong misgivings regarding Amaral's premature leaking of inside information to the media which until he did was run as a pretty tight ship.
But with the prime suspect firmly under lock and key for some time to come I think the Germans will continue doing whatever it is they are doing and they will speak to Brueckner only when they are good and ready to do so. So we will just have to content ourselves and wait and see what happens.
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I don't know but some of the convictions may be multiple
It looks as if there will be co-operation between Germany and Portugal to test the Irish woman's suspicion that Brueckner may have been her rapist because of what she recognised as the similarities between her ordeal and that of the American woman it was proven he did rape.
Snip
A PJ source confirmed to the Observer that, like the American citizen, in this case too, the PJ - with his hands tied because the case has expired - will supply the evidence he has to the German police. And the Germans will be investigating whether there is a connection to Brueckner.
https://observador.pt/2020/07/23/policia-alema-vai-investigar-violacao-de-irlandesa-no-algarve-suspeito-e-christian-brueckner-o-mesmo-do-caso-maddie/
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Agreed, John, about his being a thoroughly nasty POW.
But what you are quoting is child molestation and not necessarily child sexual assault as we know it. In some countries … and I do not know if Germany is amongst them … child molestation can mean exposing yourself to a child and not even touching the child. Foul though that is, it hardly rates against child sexual assault as we know it in the UK
It would be interesting to know exactly what Bruckners level of child molestation was, then we can get a better understanding of the likelyhood of his abducting Madeleine.
It is interesting to note that he doesn't appear to have been charged with the images supposedly found when a old gaff was raided and memory sticks/ cards containing child porn were found under a dogs carcass,maybe it was considered low level.An abductor it does not make.
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It is interesting to note that he doesn't appear to have been charged with the images supposedly found when a old gaff was raided and memory sticks/ cards containing child porn were found under a dogs carcass,maybe it was considered low level.An abductor it does not make.
It really does depend on what this other strong evidence is that Maddie is dead and CB killed her
An abductor that may well make
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It is interesting to note that he doesn't appear to have been charged with the images supposedly found when a old gaff was raided and memory sticks/ cards containing child porn were found under a dogs carcass,maybe it was considered low level.An abductor it does not make.
There used to be an old sceptic argument along the lines of: the McCanns weren’t charged with child neglect because the police were busy building a case against them for a much more serious charge.
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It is interesting to note that he doesn't appear to have been charged with the images supposedly found when a old gaff was raided and memory sticks/ cards containing child porn were found under a dogs carcass,maybe it was considered low level.An abductor it does not make.
That really does support my suspicion that these images are important and the Germans don't want to fully show their hand at the moment. Another piece of the Jigsaw. Well spotted
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‘These drug-dealing transactions commenced after Brueckner — who is reportedly a potential psychopath — returned from Portugal to Germany in 2007 and then continued into the following year. Importantly, Brueckner left Portugal only days after Madeleine McCann’s May 2007 disappearance’.
But on whose say so does it say he left Portugal only days after, how many days,one,two,21,27? with no border controls how is it known?
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Of course Brueckner is a realistic suspect.
In my opinion he should have been traced and and at the least questioned back in 2007. The police did know about him then and if they hadn't spent so long intensively investigating the minutiae of the McCann and their friends' phone traffic they might even have noticed a call to Brueckner's cell located in Luz before Madeleine went missing.
If there was reason to speak to Brueckner in 2007 ... and we know there was one futile attempt to do so ... there is now substantially more reason to have added him to the list not only as a realistic suspect but as the prime suspect.
I think the Germans have been doing an excellent amount of work on this and I am sure that there are sound operational reasons for the time it has and is taking.
I have strong misgivings regarding Amaral's premature leaking of inside information to the media which until he did was run as a pretty tight ship.
But with the prime suspect firmly under lock and key for some time to come I think the Germans will continue doing whatever it is they are doing and they will speak to Brueckner only when they are good and ready to do so. So we will just have to content ourselves and wait and see what happens.
But with the prime suspect firmly under lock and key for some time to come I think the Germans will continue doing whatever it is they are doing and they will speak to Brueckner only when they are good and ready to do so.
I agree, Brietta. And since Brückner has not yet being interrogated, his lawyer too has zero information as to German authorities’ ‘evidence’.
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I don't think e need anymore to consider him a realistic suspect...HCW says he has strong evidence CB killed Maddie..that's pretty damning
Any idiot can say that without a shred of evidence to support it. The Germans are looking pretty stupid right now, their failure to properly communicate any details to the parents of a missing child are woeful.
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Any idiot can say that without a shred of evidence to support it. The Germans are looking pretty stupid right now, their failure to properly communicate any details to the parents of a missing child are woeful.
I don't see HCW as an idiot...Amaral yes...but not HCW.....and he has explained precisely why he has witheld information from the parents..SY...and the PJ.
The Germans prosecuted CB for the rape the Portuguese failed on...I certainly don't see the Germans as stupid...I think we will know a lot more in the next couple of months
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From what I can see HCW is far from being an idiot..
Is it just that he supports abduction that cause some to ridicule him
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Any idiot can say that without a shred of evidence to support it. The Germans are looking pretty stupid right now, their failure to properly communicate any details to the parents of a missing child are woeful.
The PJ and Scotland Yard failed to trap The McCanns so now The Germans are having a go.
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Not sure on that claim.
Senior Portuguese police official claims German 'prime suspect' Christian Brueckner is INNOCENT of Maddie McCann murder, and was thoroughly investigated four years ago
The police official said there is 'no evidence' Christian Brueckner was involved
The former Policia Judiciaria chief said no reasons to charge him were found
This comes after Met Police launched a new Madeleine McCann appeal this week
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397265/German-prime-suspect-Maddie-McCann-case-Christian-Brueckner-INNOCENT-says-Portuguese-police.html
Hang on, Amaral said an officer knocked on CB's door got no answer and didn't go back. Now all of a sudden he was investigated and ruled out! Which is it?
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Any idiot can say that without a shred of evidence to support it. The Germans are looking pretty stupid right now, their failure to properly communicate any details to the parents of a missing child are woeful.
Why are the German Police looking pretty stupid John? They said they are collecting evidence before they interrogate him.
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I don't see HCW as an idiot...Amaral yes...but not HCW.....and he has explained precisely why he has witheld information from the parents..SY...and the PJ.
The Germans prosecuted CB for the rape the Portuguese failed on...I certainly don't see the Germans as stupid...I think we will know a lot more in the next couple of months
I can't understand how the Portuguese failed to prosecute CB for the rape, wasn't there a hair found?
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I can't understand how the Portuguese failed to prosecute CB for the rape, wasn't there a hair found?
there's the irsh girl too......yes there was ahair found...and DNA in the irish case
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Any idiot can say that without a shred of evidence to support it. The Germans are looking pretty stupid right now, their failure to properly communicate any details to the parents of a missing child are woeful.
It is an old case and all evidence lost due to hmmmmmm *%87 I wonder why.. They are working on a cold case and you have to actually congratulate them for being so persistent.
IMO they cannot lose. If they don't have enough evidence to charge him they can perhaps tell the world what the evidence is..
In both cases CB is burned. He cannot abuse anyone anymore as his face is well known.
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Hang on, Amaral said an officer knocked on CB's door got no answer and didn't go back. Now all of a sudden he was investigated and ruled out! Which is it?
I can't understand how the Portuguese failed to prosecute CB for the rape, wasn't there a hair found?
The reason he was ruled out of the Mccann case is perhaps the reason that trapped him in the rape case,forensics!
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The reason he was ruled out of the Mccann case is perhaps the reason that trapped him in the rape case,forensics!
They did not even have his DNA.
He was not trapped in the rape case. PJ would never connect him with that case, only because Germans insisted it he was charged.
The Irish girls rape case, in contrary, had the evidence destroyed because they could not match it with anyone in their database.
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They did not even have his DNA.
He was not trapped in the rape case. PJ would never connect him with that case, only because Germans insisted it he was charged.
The Irish girls rape case, in contrary, had the evidence destroyed because they could not match it with anyone in their database.
What I cannot understand is that the Portuguese knew CB was a sex offender as he told them. So, when the hair was found on the bed when they investigated the rape, why didn't they investigate CB?
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Any idiot can say that without a shred of evidence to support it. The Germans are looking pretty stupid right now, their failure to properly communicate any details to the parents of a missing child are woeful.
What you have to understand is - they may look pretty stupid to you, but that is not necessarily a view shared by the vast majority of people. I don't think they look stupid because I understand that they are working on an investigation the details of which are largely unknown to the general public.
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What I cannot understand is that the Portuguese knew CB was a sex offender as he told them. So, when the hair was found on the bed when they investigated the rape, why didn't they investigate CB?
As he wasn't arrested and tried for child molestation in Portugal why would they record it and where?
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As he wasn't arrested and tried for child molestation in Portugal why would they record it and where?
The good news is everyone will know about him now
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As he wasn't arrested and tried for child molestation in Portugal why would they record it and where?
You are beginning to sound desperate. Why would you care so much about a Convicted Paedophile?
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The good news is everyone will know about him now
This is the only good news that I can see at the moment. And all documented. It is going to take some doing to defend him against this.
But no doubt someone will try.
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You are beginning to sound desperate. Why would you care so much about a Convicted Paedophile?
Considering that he was extradited to Germany on paedophile charges a fact which apparently he admitted to a Portuguese Judge ... I think it should have been very simple for the Judicial Police to put two and two together. Had they been the slightest bit interested.
Unfortunately the case coordinator of Madeleine's case Amaral's interest didn't progress beyond the McCanns and their friends.
A drum which he continues to beat despite a real contender unearthed by some joined up police work turning up highlighting just how dire his investigation actually was.
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As he wasn't arrested and tried for child molestation in Portugal why would they record it and where?
You would think they would have recorded it when he told them.
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Considering that he was extradited to Germany on paedophile charges a fact which apparently he admitted to a Portuguese Judge ... I think it should have been very simple for the Judicial Police to put two and two together. Had they been the slightest bit interested.
Unfortunately the case coordinator of Madeleine's case Amaral's interest didn't progress beyond the McCanns and their friends.
A drum which he continues to beat despite a real contender unearthed by some joined up police work turning up highlighting just how dire his investigation actually was.
You are right. The more days go by then the more dire The PJ Investigation led by Amaral becomes.
It is all quite plain to me of what was going on. Choose a suspect and then endeavour to fit them up. No hard work or brains needed. I knew that thirteen years ago.
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You would think they would have recorded it when he told them.
But somehow they missed that Big, Red Flag. but then his name wasn't McCann.
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You are right. The more days go by then the more dire The PJ Investigation led by Amaral becomes.
It is all quite plain to me of what was going on. Choose a suspect and then endeavour to fit them up. No hard work or brains needed. I knew that thirteen years ago.
The PJ have had 13 years to charge the McCanns...what are they waiting for
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The PJ have had 13 years to charge the McCanns...what are they waiting for
A chance for Kate McCann to fall down the Police Station Stairs?
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A chance for Kate McCann to fall down the Police Station Stairs?
You mean to trip up?
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IMO there is an element of truth in Amaral's statement that CB was going to be made a scapegoat for Madeleine's abduction/murder. Whether or not CB is charged will very much depend on gathered evidence reaching the required level to achieve a conviction. However, the Germans have insinuated that others have knowledge of the crime. Given the years which have lapsed since Madeleine was taken, the statute of limitations for various offences will be invoked so which State would be able to prosecute any other accused persons?
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IMO there is an element of truth in Amaral's statement that CB was going to be made a scapegoat for Madeleine's abduction/murder. Whether or not CB is charged will very much depend on gathered evidence reaching the required level to achieve a conviction. However, the Germans have insinuated that others have knowledge of the crime. Given the years which have lapsed since Madeleine was taken, the statute of limitations for various offences will be invoked so which State would be able to prosecute any other accused persons?
What possible reason would the German judiciary have for scapgoating Bruckner for the abduction of Madeleine McCann?
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What possible reason would the German judiciary have for scapgoating Bruckner for the abduction of Madeleine McCann?
I don't mean the German judiciary are making a scapegoat of CB. The fact he is in Germany & won't be extradited to Portugal may ensure that he is a scapegoat for the crimes of others who, for various reasons, cannot be punished in law.
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I don't mean the German judiciary are making a scapegoat of CB. The fact he is in Germany & won't be extradited to Portugal may ensure that he is a scapegoat for the crimes of others who, for various reasons, cannot be punished in law.
So who is doing the scapegoating in your opinion?
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So who is doing the scapegoating in your opinion?
The justice systems of Portugal, UK & Germany combined.
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I don't mean the German judiciary are making a scapegoat of CB. The fact he is in Germany & won't be extradited to Portugal may ensure that he is a scapegoat for the crimes of others who, for various reasons, cannot be punished in law.
I was about to post a reply to your first post as follows, Misty ...
"I think I see where you are coming from.
If Brueckner did not act alone and depending on whether or not the Germans are able to get sufficient evidence together to enable them to lay charges, due to the passage of time theoretically he could be left to take the rap alone unless co-conspirators also happen to be German."
I think that is pretty much as you have posted since.
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The justice systems of Portugal, UK & Germany combined.
I think thats a totally crackpot idea if you dont mind me saying. I think cipriano was a scapegoat and that amaral has made the parents a scapegoat. CB will judged on the evidence and I tend to think HCW is a particularly precise sort of person...when he says strong evidence he has strong evidence
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The justice systems of Portugal, UK & Germany combined.
What might the ramifications be for completely new on-going international criminal activities not centred on Madeleine but of which she is only a small part.
Would that be covered by statutes of limitations if there is evidence enough to merit prosecution in various national courts?
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Its quite ironic that sceptics have been more than happy to have found the McCanns guilty in the court of public opinion but strongly object to Breukner also being found guilty in the same court
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Is there a statute of limitations on Murder in Portugal?
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Its quite ironic that sceptics have been more than happy to have found the McCanns guilty in the court of public opinion but strongly object to Breukner also being found guilty in the same court
Most people believe Maddie was abducted due to the mainstream media bias.
So I think you'll find the McCanns are innocent by majority verdict in the court of public opinion.
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Its quite ironic that sceptics have been more than happy to have found the McCanns guilty in the court of public opinion but strongly object to Breukner also being found guilty in the same court
In my opinion nothing devalues whatever they have to say for themselves more than the truth of that observation ~ it really does show them up.
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In my opinion nothing devalues whatever they have to say for themselves more than that observation ~ it really does show them up.
Yes, quite, wot wot.....yes, shows them up, wot wot. Devalues. Shibboleth.
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Yes, quite, wot wot.....yes, shows them up, wot wot. Devalues. Shibboleth.
Glad you agree.
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You would think they would have recorded it when he told them.
That's a bit vague imo. Who are "they"? Who exactly should have recorded it? The PSP who arrested him or the Judge who tried him? Where should it have been recorded, on which list or database?
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Another question. If The Statute of Limitations runs out in Portugal can Brueckner be tried elsewhere?
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You are beginning to sound desperate. Why would you care so much about a Convicted Paedophile?
You misunderstand. I care about the Portuguese being blamed yet again for their perceived shortcomings Eleanor. It's not good enough in my opinion to accuse them of failing to know all about Brueckner without explaining just what it was they failed to do. Whose place was it to record his previous offences? Where should it have been recorded? Why wasn't it?
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I was about to post a reply to your first post as follows, Misty ...
"I think I see where you are coming from.
If Brueckner did not act alone and depending on whether or not the Germans are able to get sufficient evidence together to enable them to lay charges, due to the passage of time theoretically he could be left to take the rap alone unless co-conspirators also happen to be German."
I think that is pretty much as you have posted since.
Yes. CB may have been paid to abduct Madeleine & paid to kill her. What happened in between those 2 events may have been crimes committed by people who cannot legally be prosecuted without sufficient evidence. If some of those people have fled Portugal, aren't German or whose crimes fall outwith the statute of limitations in the 3 jurisdictions involved then, courtesy of the law, CB will be the patsy.
All imo.
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Yes. CB may have been paid to abduct Madeleine & paid to kill her. What happened in between those 2 events may have been crimes committed by people who cannot legally be prosecuted without sufficient evidence. If some of those people have fled Portugal, aren't German or whose crimes fall outwith the statute of limitations in the 3 jurisdictions involved then, courtesy of the law, CB will be the patsy.
All imo.
I don't think thats quite what amaral meant. he won't be a patsy ...he will be punshed for his role in the crime
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I don't think thats quite what amaral meant. he won't be a patsy ...he will be punshed for his role in the crime
I know it's not what Amaral meant but I think there is an element of truth in CB being a scapegoat for the reasons I've explained. That doesn't mean CB isn't guilty of abduction & murder imo.
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You misunderstand. I care about the Portuguese being blamed yet again for their perceived shortcomings Eleanor. It's not good enough in my opinion to accuse them of failing to know all about Brueckner without explaining just what it was they failed to do. Whose place was it to record his previous offences? Where should it have been recorded? Why wasn't it?
It isn't Yet Again. It's ongoing from the word go. And Amaral caused havoc in more ways than one.
You all keep on and on, so why shouldn't I? It's all the same old same old anyway.
Supporters have always called for Innocent Until Proven Guilty, and mostly feel the same about Brueckner, while Sceptics think that only Brueckner is entitled to this.
So it is the double standards that generally upset me.
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You misunderstand. I care about the Portuguese being blamed yet again for their perceived shortcomings Eleanor. It's not good enough in my opinion to accuse them of failing to know all about Brueckner without explaining just what it was they failed to do. Whose place was it to record his previous offences? Where should it have been recorded? Why wasn't it?
I
The portuguese have quite a few shortcomings...have alook at the proven facts... think its about time they took responsibilty for them...I think the ECHR will expose them
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I
The portuguese have quite a few shortcomings...have alook at the proven facts... think its about time they took responsibilty for them...I think the ECHR will expose them
I just wish that someone would get a shift on.
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You are right. The more days go by then the more dire The PJ Investigation led by Amaral becomes.
It is all quite plain to me of what was going on. Choose a suspect and then endeavour to fit them up. No hard work or brains needed. I knew that thirteen years ago.
And I wonder if there might be an even deeper reason
Work it out.
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What I cannot understand is that the Portuguese knew CB was a sex offender as he told them. So, when the hair was found on the bed when they investigated the rape, why didn't they investigate CB?
Because they don't want any rape crimes being logged in their tourist resours?
Because CB is VEEEEERY manipulative and they never thought it could have been him?
Because they never took his DNA?
So when Germans came up with evidence and requested the evidence in old lady's rape being compared with CB this is when they first time had a match.
Maybe they send the rape DNA evidence to Germany and then the Germans compared it with CB?
It would be very interesting to know how this worked!
Even the Germans were not connecting things well. How many times they missed CB due to regional communications issues. It might be the same with Portugal.
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You misunderstand. I care about the Portuguese being blamed yet again for their perceived shortcomings Eleanor. It's not good enough in my opinion to accuse them of failing to know all about Brueckner without explaining just what it was they failed to do. Whose place was it to record his previous offences? Where should it have been recorded? Why wasn't it?
Funny that you care so much about the reputation of a foreign police force but can’t wrap your head around supporters caring about Madeleine or her family.
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Because they don't want any rape crimes being logged in their tourist resours?
Because CB is VEEEEERY manipulative and they never thought it could have been him?
Because they never took his DNA?
So when Germans came up with evidence and requested the evidence in old lady's rape being compared with CB this is when they first time had a match.
Maybe they send the rape DNA evidence to Germany and then the Germans compared it with CB?
It would be very interesting to know how this worked!
Even the Germans were not connecting things well. How many times they missed CB due to regional communications issues. It might be the same with Portugal.
Yep, I agree
But is there another reason that is a possibility as well ?
Some of you will work it out.
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Yep, I agree
But is there another reason that is a possibility as well ?
Some of you will work it out.
Another reason would be him being protected by police in Portugal for whatever reason. Either due to corruption or for him being a protected witness.
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And I wonder if there might be an even deeper reason
Work it out.
I already have, Love.
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Another reason would be him being protected by police in Portugal for whatever reason. Either due to corruption or for him being a protected witness.
He seemed to lead a charmed life in Portugal given what we know of him now ~ I have wondered if he was useful as an informer to the police as he was part of the drug scene.
He certainly didn't have 'paedophile & rapist' stamped across his forehead, he seems to have had a wide circle of friends and could be quite personable if the video of him is anything to go by.
I think it was only in retrospect that most of his acquaintances gave any thought as to his character ... I can only recall one couple mentioning having a run in with him (the lady with concerns for her sheep and the man who fought with him and called the police).
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Funny that you care so much about the reputation of a foreign police force but can’t wrap your head around supporters caring about Madeleine or her family.
It seems to me that 'caring about Madeleine and her family' too often involves blaming the Portuguese police and Judiciary. Those doing so should at least try to pinpoint who they're blaming and exactly how they failed imo.
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I already have, Love.
I thought that you might have done ?{)(** . 8((()*/
There are a few others who might work it out too
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Because they don't want any rape crimes being logged in their tourist resours?
Because CB is VEEEEERY manipulative and they never thought it could have been him?
Because they never took his DNA?
So when Germans came up with evidence and requested the evidence in old lady's rape being compared with CB this is when they first time had a match.
Maybe they send the rape DNA evidence to Germany and then the Germans compared it with CB?
It would be very interesting to know how this worked!
Even the Germans were not connecting things well. How many times they missed CB due to regional communications issues. It might be the same with Portugal.
I think the Irish rape victim was told that it was bad for tourism.
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It seems to me that 'caring about Madeleine and her family' too often involves blaming the Portuguese police and Judiciary. Those doing so should at least try to pinpoint who they're blaming and exactly how they failed imo.
So you’re actively soliciting more criticism of the PJ? It’s all been said a million times before but if you insist perhaps best start a new thread about their incompetence, this one is about CB never being charged.
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It seems to me that 'caring about Madeleine and her family' too often involves blaming the Portuguese police and Judiciary. Those doing so should at least try to pinpoint who they're blaming and exactly how they failed imo.
Easy Peasy. Amaral. He decided on the morning after that Kate McCann had done it. After that it was all down hill. But only for Amaral. What a horrid, little man he is, who never proved anything.
Personally, I only hope that his creditors got paid the colossal amounts of money that he owed.
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I thought that you might have done ?{)(** . 8((()*/
There are a few others who might work it out too
My thoughts on the subject are a little less convoluted than yours. I think it was plain graft.
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This is now beyond parody.
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This is now beyond parody.
My thoughts precisely. It should be funny, but sadly it isn't. Bon Soir my friend, even if only occasionally.
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So you’re actively soliciting more criticism of the PJ? It’s all been said a million times before but if you insist perhaps best start a new thread about their incompetence, this one is about CB never being charged.
I have seen all the criticisms of the PJ and the Portuguese Judiciary and they're mostly unfounded opinions.
Armchair detectives pontificate in hindsight that the PJ 'should have done this' or 'didn't do that' without knowing or caring whether it was possible or reasonable at the time.
The Judiciary are accused of incompetence solely on the grounds that they didn't rubber stamp the McCann's pursuit of Amaral imo.
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I have seen all the criticisms of the PJ and the Portuguese Judiciary and they're mostly unfounded opinions.
Armchair detectives pontificate in hindsight that the PJ 'should have done this' or 'didn't do that' without knowing or caring whether it was possible or reasonable at the time.
The Judiciary are accused of incompetence solely on the grounds that they didn't rubber stamp the McCann's pursuit of Amaral imo.
My criticism of the PJ is based on evidence and cannot be disputed. Their abject failure to understand the alerts and forensics
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Because they don't want any rape crimes being logged in their tourist resours?
Because CB is VEEEEERY manipulative and they never thought it could have been him?
Because they never took his DNA?
So when Germans came up with evidence and requested the evidence in old lady's rape being compared with CB this is when they first time had a match.
Maybe they send the rape DNA evidence to Germany and then the Germans compared it with CB?
It would be very interesting to know how this worked!
Even the Germans were not connecting things well. How many times they missed CB due to regional communications issues. It might be the same with Portugal.
I'm trying to piece this together, albeit with difficulty as reports appear to vary.
Re witness statements of "friends" who'd either been asked to a) get rid of stuff in one of his abodes, or b) stolen his video camera, they apparently saw videos of 2 rapes, didn't know what to do with it and got rid of it, but were able to describe what they'd seen.
"... The friend claimed: “Then the man sat on the bed and pulled the mask off his face. Then I thought: That can’t be.” He had recognised his friend.
The [71-year-old's rape] case had remained unsolved until a Portuguese police cold case team linked the rape to the testimony of the two acquaintances who had stolen the video camera. The alleged video was not shown in court and is not thought to be in police possession."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/10/new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-everything-know/
But, timewise, I can't make sense of the PT cold-case team latching onto witness statements *during* a trial, which makes me think that the German PT had shared info with PT during their investigation... which led to digging out the unidentified hair.
To double-check, but unless I'm mistaken, the hair wasn't tested for a DNA profile until 2017 / 2018, by the German police. Cf The ITV programme around 27mins ish.
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Madeleine McCann 'not the only victim' of Christian Brueckner, chief prosecutor in case says
Donal Lynch
August 16 2020 06:00 AM
The chief prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann investigation in Germany has said that authorities there believe that Christian Brueckner, the man suspected of abducting the little girl, may have had accomplices.
"Our investigation is focused on this suspect, but we're not ruling out that he may have worked with others and that there are other persons who may be of interest," Hans Christian Wolters told the Sunday Independent.
"We have also had indications that there may be other victims of the suspect, and there was evidence to this effect. However, I can't say at the moment how concrete these indications were and whether they can bring progress to the investigation."
On Friday, German police resumed their search of an allotment near Hanover with metal detectors and radar equipment. The site is about 65 kilometres from Braunschweig where Brueckner was last registered as living. The foundations of a cabin which stood on the site have been removed, German news agency DPA has reported.
The lawyer for Brueckner, Friedrich Fulscher, said on Thursday that he believes the main witness against his client is a criminal who swapped information for police favours. The witness is believed to have told German police that Brueckner told him what had happened to Madeleine, who disappeared from a holiday apartment in Portugal in 2007.
Fulscher derided the witness as "the worst you can get" and said that Brueckner has no faith in the legal process in Germany.
However, chief prosecutor Wolters said: "In Germany, everyone gets a fair trial, and I think the last trial that Christian B was involved in was also fair."
Wolters acknowledged that the fact Brueckner's name and face have been published across the world would make the case more difficult, but he added: "I do believe that the justices here in Germany are experienced in deciding what a witness has really observed or heard and what has merely been reported in the media."
In July, a Portuguese woman told Portuguese police that she had seen a girl in 2017, whom she believed matched Madeleine's description. The girl spoke German, the woman said.
"We know about the woman in Portugal and we've been in touch with authorities there, but it doesn't change the fact that we are certain that Madeleine is, in fact, dead," Mr Wolters said.
"We have made progress with the investigation, I can say that."
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-not-the-only-victim-of-christian-brueckner-chief-prosecutor-in-case-says-39452899.html
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I'm trying to piece this together, albeit with difficulty as reports appear to vary.
Re witness statements of "friends" who'd either been asked to a) get rid of stuff in one of his abodes, or b) stolen his video camera, they apparently saw videos of 2 rapes, didn't know what to do with it and got rid of it, but were able to describe what they'd seen.
"... The friend claimed: “Then the man sat on the bed and pulled the mask off his face. Then I thought: That can’t be.” He had recognised his friend.
The [71-year-old's rape] case had remained unsolved until a Portuguese police cold case team linked the rape to the testimony of the two acquaintances who had stolen the video camera. The alleged video was not shown in court and is not thought to be in police possession."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/10/new-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-everything-know/
But, timewise, I can't make sense of the PT cold-case team latching onto witness statements *during* a trial, which makes me think that the German PT had shared info with PT during their investigation... which led to digging out the unidentified hair.
To double-check, but unless I'm mistaken, the hair wasn't tested for a DNA profile until 2017 / 2018, by the German police. Cf The ITV programme around 27mins ish.
Once the media get involved they muddy the waters imo. They publish rumours and part facts indiscriminately.
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Madeleine McCann 'not the only victim' of Christian Brueckner, chief prosecutor in case says
Donal Lynch
August 16 2020 06:00 AM
The chief prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann investigation in Germany has said that authorities there believe that Christian Brueckner, the man suspected of abducting the little girl, may have had accomplices.
"Our investigation is focused on this suspect, but we're not ruling out that he may have worked with others and that there are other persons who may be of interest," Hans Christian Wolters told the Sunday Independent.
"We have also had indications that there may be other victims of the suspect, and there was evidence to this effect. However, I can't say at the moment how concrete these indications were and whether they can bring progress to the investigation."
On Friday, German police resumed their search of an allotment near Hanover with metal detectors and radar equipment. The site is about 65 kilometres from Braunschweig where Brueckner was last registered as living. The foundations of a cabin which stood on the site have been removed, German news agency DPA has reported.
The lawyer for Brueckner, Friedrich Fulscher, said on Thursday that he believes the main witness against his client is a criminal who swapped information for police favours. The witness is believed to have told German police that Brueckner told him what had happened to Madeleine, who disappeared from a holiday apartment in Portugal in 2007.
Fulscher derided the witness as "the worst you can get" and said that Brueckner has no faith in the legal process in Germany.
However, chief prosecutor Wolters said: "In Germany, everyone gets a fair trial, and I think the last trial that Christian B was involved in was also fair."
Wolters acknowledged that the fact Brueckner's name and face have been published across the world would make the case more difficult, but he added: "I do believe that the justices here in Germany are experienced in deciding what a witness has really observed or heard and what has merely been reported in the media."
In July, a Portuguese woman told Portuguese police that she had seen a girl in 2017, whom she believed matched Madeleine's description. The girl spoke German, the woman said.
"We know about the woman in Portugal and we've been in touch with authorities there, but it doesn't change the fact that we are certain that Madeleine is, in fact, dead," Mr Wolters said.
"We have made progress with the investigation, I can say that."
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-not-the-only-victim-of-christian-brueckner-chief-prosecutor-in-case-says-39452899.html
You cam copy/past as much as you want.it doesnt prove he abducted Maddie
Only that he is a nasty piece of work.......seems there was hundreds of them about as bad or even worse as him.
HWC believes maddie is dead ...so does GA.
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You cam copy/past as much as you want.it doesnt prove he abducted Maddie
Only that he is a nasty piece of work.......seems there was hundreds of them about as bad or even worse as him.
HWC believes maddie is dead ...so does GA.
There is no proof Maddie had an accident and died in the apartment...
I beleive maddie is dead too
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Once the media get involved they muddy the waters imo. They publish rumours and part facts indiscriminately.
I'm very aware of that.
However,
The man they’re targeting is Christian B., 43. At the time of her disappearance, he was living in the area around Praia da Luz, the resort where the McCanns were spending their holidays. It was the very place where he has been accused of raping an elderly woman two years earlier. In 1994, he was convicted for the first time for sexually abusing a child.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/madeleine-mccann-a-possible-suspect-in-the-maddie-case-a-09cdb4e7-faa1-4277-bf10-a8ae255d8247
"In 1994, WDR reports, a court in Würzburg gave him a two-year suspended jail sentence for sexually abusing a child. Christian B was 17 at the time.
(...)
German police say the suspect lived in Portugal's Algarve holiday area between 1995 and 2007, doing odd jobs, including as a waiter, but also burgling hotel rooms and holiday flats."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52937626
If he left Germany during the time of his suspended sentence, it would make sense that the German authorities wanted to haul him back.
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You cam copy/past as much as you want.it doesnt prove he abducted Maddie
Only that he is a nasty piece of work.......seems there was hundreds of them about as bad or even worse as him.
HWC believes maddie is dead ...so does GA.
Nothing is 'proved' as far as Madeleine is concerned and I think that in great measure that might very well be something that Amaral should feel black burning shame about.
His initial energies were expended on deciding what had happened, then striving with every sinew to 'prove' it while his investigation studiously ignored issues which might have led not only to the police knocking politely on Brueckner's door but to them knocking it down.
He has spent the last thirteen years persecuting innocent people ~ even writing a book to commemorate his ineptitude while individuals such as Brueckner never once entered into the safe little bubble that is his mind.
For example ...
Crucial Madeleine McCann case questions that remain unanswered after a decade
Irish journalist John McGee was holidaying in Praia da Luz when the little girl went missing. In a compelling account, he says we seem to be no nearer to the truth
May 2 2017
Snip
Somewhat oblivious to what was unfolding on the streets below us, my wife and I and our daughter, who was only a few months older than Madeleine, went to bed in the Estrela da Luz apartment complex a couple of hundred yards from where Madeleine disappeared.
Having just returned from dinner in a nearby restaurant, we could hear commotion four floors below us on the street. It eventually moved on to another street and, thinking nothing of it, we headed for our wine-induced and, in hindsight, selfish slumber.
*******************************************************************************************
A little English girl has gone missing overnight, we were told by one of the women working on the reception of the apartment complex. Hastily printed photos of a pretty, young blonde child had been left at hotel and apartment reception desks.
This was the same Madeleine McCann we had seen tagging along with her mother as she pushed her twins in a double buggy up the hill.
This was happening to the same family we had passed on several occasions days before as we walked down towards the supermarket.
This was the same Gerry McCann we had seen playing tennis several days earlier.
*******************************************************************************************
At no stage of the initial investigation, however, did local police attempt to interview us or anyone in our apartment complex, despite its proximity to the Ocean Club resort.
In our case, certain things we had witnessed over the previous week and indeed on the night of Madeleine's disappearance might have been of use to them.
The suspicious looking characters hanging around Hugo Beatty's bar two nights earlier - one of whom resembled the identikit photo issued by the Metropolitan Police years later; the pick-up-style truck that sped past us as we walked back to the apartment from the restaurant that fateful night; the elderly bearded man videoing children at a nearby theme park three days before.
At the time, their possible significance meant nothing to us, but they might have been of some help.
It was only when we arrived back in Dublin five days later that we felt compelled to volunteer statements to the gardai, who then passed them on to Interpol, by then already on the case.
Presumably, Interpol then passed them on to the Portuguese police.
In addition, the many photos we had taken during our holiday that might have provided clues or identified 'people of interest' in and around Praia da Luz and Lagos were uploaded to a website that was set up by the investigation.
We never heard anything back from the Portuguese police, who in July 2008 officially closed the case.
*******************************************************************************************
... the Find Madeleine campaign never gave up hope, and a concerted effort was made to keep it in the headlines, something that irked the Portuguese police considerably.
*******************************************************************************************
Of particular interest to the Metropolitan Police was the speeding pick-up truck that flew past us on the way home from the restaurant and the three suspicious looking in Hugo Beatty's bar.
It later emerged that two waiters working in the restaurant also noticed a man acting suspiciously in a phone box across the road earlier in the evening.
And one of the subsequent identikit photos published by the Metropolitan Police of two men they wanted to talk to resembled one of the men we'd spotted in the bar.
After carrying out a cell-dump of all mobile phone activity in the Praia da Luz area in the lead-up to Madeleine's disappearance and the days after, the Metropolitan Police were also able to identify all the telephone numbers we dialled, as well as the numbers that had dialled us during that period.
As is the norm in such cases, details of all calls made and received were submitted as part of our statements.
The use of cell-dumps has helped police gain convictions in several high-profile murder cases in the past, and nowadays cell-dumps are almost as useful to the police as fingerprints or DNA.
It was later reported by several UK newspapers that the cell-dump turned up a large number of telephone calls and texts in and around the Ocean Club between a group of men around the time of Madeleine's disappearance.
Nothing ever came of it.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/crucial-madeleine-mccann-case-questions-that-remain-unanswered-after-a-decade-35670997.html
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8513.msg428959#msg428959
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Nothing is 'proved' as far as Madeleine is concerned and I think that in great measure that might very well be something that Amaral should feel black burning shame about.
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He has spent the last thirteen years persecuting innocent people ~
Unless he's right, in which case he didn't, which I'm sure you'd agree, since nothing is proved as far as Madeleine is concerned.
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I have seen all the criticisms of the PJ and the Portuguese Judiciary and they're mostly unfounded opinions.
Armchair detectives pontificate in hindsight that the PJ 'should have done this' or 'didn't do that' without knowing or caring whether it was possible or reasonable at the time.
The Judiciary are accused of incompetence solely on the grounds that they didn't rubber stamp the McCann's pursuit of Amaral imo.
It’s both possible and reasonable for them to have sent Madeleine’s bedclothes off for forensic examination, together with Cuddlecat. Did they? Just one item of a million things they coulda shoulda done.
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There is no proof Maddie had an accident and died in the apartment...
I beleive maddie is dead too
No proof CB took her either. or she was infact abducted.
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No proof CB took her either. or she was infact abducted.
Thats what the germans are working on...proof that CB took her. No one is working on the McCanns guilt apart from the crackpots on CMOMM
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My thoughts precisely. It should be funny, but sadly it isn't. Bon Soir my friend, even if only occasionally.
Hope for more good evenings and an enduring friendship that transcends our differences.
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Hope for more good evenings and an enduring friendship that transcends our differences.
Ah well, that's just you and me.
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Ah well, that's just you and me.
Well it won't include me.
Faith throws too many insults at me.......some unpleasant ones in the past week or so.
Wouldn't be comfortable company for me.
Anyway back to my baking.
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Well it won't include me.
Faith throws too many insults at me.......some unpleasant ones in the past week or so.
Wouldn't be comfortable company for me.
Anyway back to my baking.
Faithlily insults me at every given opportunity. But I laugh, because she doesn't actually mean it. But you need to go some to spot what matters.
You do so well in defence of. But try not to take it too personally. I have had five years of insults and I don't care anymore. Although there was a time when I did. There was a time when I wondered of what on earth I was doing Moderating this misbegotten Forum.
I can only promise you that Faithlily is the least of our problems.
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Faithlily insults me at every given opportunity. But I laugh, because she doesn't actually mean it. But you need to go some to spot what matters.
You do so well in defence of. But try not to take it too personally. I have had five years of insults and I don't care anymore. Although there was a time when I did. There was a time when I wondered of what on earth I was doing Moderating this misbegotten Forum.
I can only promise you that Faithlily is the least of our problems.
I'm definitely with Erngarth on this... I don't take any insults seriously but I think no one should extend the insults to family who don't even post here....I find the General quite pleasant and entertaining...and spams insults are never directed towards individual members
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It’s both possible and reasonable for them to have sent Madeleine’s bedclothes off for forensic examination, together with Cuddlecat. Did they? Just one item of a million things they coulda shoulda done.
I think that was up to the forensic people on 4th, not the PJ.
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I think that was up to the forensic people on 4th, not the PJ.
who are the forensic poeple ......surely the detectives direct what they want tested
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I'm definitely with Erngarth on this... I don't take any insults seriously but I think no one should extend the insults to family who don't even post here....I find the General quite pleasant and entertaining...and spams insults are never directed towards individual members
So all okay then. No problems. Carry on. Phew. Thank God for that.
Hear me, Lord.
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I think that was up to the forensic people on 4th, not the PJ.
Oh, them. Well, well. There you go. Nothing to do with Amaral.
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I think that was up to the forensic people on 4th, not the PJ.
Oh I see. The PJ are not responsible for evidence gathering. Then they are clearly blameless in all respects, just remind me exactly what it is they do again?
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Oh I see. The PJ are not responsible for evidence gathering. Then they are clearly blameless in all respects, just remind me e.xactly what it is they do again?
Oh do come on. How can Amaral be responsible if the rest of The Investigation was carp as well?
They were all rubbish.
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Oh I see. The PJ are not responsible for evidence gathering. Then they are clearly blameless in all respects, just remind me exactly what it is they do again?
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The PJ stitch people up. Case solved. End of. No great expense.
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Has everyone bogged off to bed? So not looking good then.
Oh Dear, I did so feel like a discussion.
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Faithlily insults me at every given opportunity. But I laugh, because she doesn't actually mean it. But you need to go some to spot what matters.
You do so well in defence of. But try not to take it too personally. I have had five years of insults and I don't care anymore. Although there was a time when I did. There was a time when I wondered of what on earth I was doing Moderating this misbegotten Forum.
I can only promise you that Faithlily is the least of our problems.
Factionalism really does win the day.
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I'm definitely with Erngarth on this... I don't take any insults seriously but I think no one should extend the insults to family who don't even post here....I find the General quite pleasant and entertaining...and spams insults are never directed towards individual members
Then we agree...I find the General very entertaining too.
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Factionalism really does win the day.
Oh Dear, sorry. Did I inadvertently say something pleasant about you?
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Heri made the following point, which I think is interesting: if Brückner was in possession of the phone that received the call at 19:30 while at his farmhouse some 2 km from the Ocean Club, it is possible that after ending the call some 30 minutes later, for him to reach the Ocean Club on foot within the timeframe of Madeleine’s disappearance.
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Oh Dear, sorry. Did I inadvertently say something pleasant about you?
Not at all. Just thought you were made of better stuff. My mistake.
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Not at all. Just thought you were made of better stuff. My mistake.
Ah well. Was I a bit too nice? We can't have them thinking that we are colluding.
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Heri made the following point, which I think is interesting: if Brückner was in possession of the phone that received the call at 19:30 while at his farmhouse some 2 km from the Ocean Club, it is possible that after ending the call some 30 minutes later, for him to reach the Ocean Club on foot within the timeframe of Madeleine’s disappearance.
Did he inhabit a farmhouse on 3rd May 2007?
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Oh I see. The PJ are not responsible for evidence gathering. Then they are clearly blameless in all respects, just remind me exactly what it is they do again?
As the forensic people are the experts on what can yield forensic evidence it was left to them to gather evidence from 5A. They gathered hairs, fingerprints and a piece of the bedspread from a spare bed. Had they thought that evidence could be gathered from Madeleine's bedclothes they would have taken them too.
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Heri made the following point, which I think is interesting: if Brückner was in possession of the phone that received the call at 19:30 while at his farmhouse some 2 km from the Ocean Club, it is possible that after ending the call some 30 minutes later, for him to reach the Ocean Club on foot within the timeframe of Madeleine’s disappearance.
He (German suspect) would of course with pinpoint accuracy know when to half inch Madeleine,yeah right.
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As the forensic people are the experts on what can yield forensic evidence it was left to them to gather evidence from 5A. They gathered hairs, fingerprints and a piece of the bedspread from a spare bed. Had they thought that evidence could be gathered from Madeleine's bedclothes they would have taken them too.
Why on earth would they conclude that no evidence would be found on the bedclothes of a missing child? Did they know in advance that she hadn’t been interfered with? Did the police tell them “nah, it’s woke and wandered mate, there won’t be anything on the bedclothes “ then or what? I mean, honestly that’s the most pathetic bit of PJ defending I’ve heard to date.
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He (German suspect) would of course with pinpoint accuracy know when to half inch Madeleine,yeah right.
How do you suppose Brueckner was able to 'home in' on the vulnerable woman living on her own in the villa he entered for the purpose of raping her?
One of three perhaps ... - chance
- intelligence
- observation
Brueckner was a predator ~ he was a burglar ~ he was a career criminal ~ he was a local ~ he appears to have been invisible to the local police.
Why do you suppose there is anywhere in Luz he would have been unable to select if he had chosen it as his target?
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He (German suspect) would of course with pinpoint accuracy know when to half inch Madeleine,yeah right.
There are accounts from witnesses of men who might have been Brueckner and/or a friend in the vicinity of the apartment Madeleine was taken from.
The fact the Portuguese police didn't track down all of them means there are still people seen acting suspiciously in the run up to the disappearance of a little girl who have not been traced.
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He (German suspect) would of course with pinpoint accuracy know when to half inch Madeleine,yeah right.
Brueckner entered the American woman's villa. He carried his 'rape kit' with him including a video camera which he set up to record the outrage.
I would say he did that using pinpoint accuracy to half an inch on that occasion. Why on earth do you suppose he would have been unable to target the McCann apartment ... as well as the other apartments where intelligence or observation told him children would be unattended.
He used his skill for pinpoint accuracy to pinpoint the American woman's villa where he carried out a premeditated outrage.
Why do you think he would have been incapable of using his pinpoint accuracy displayed in the choice of rape victim, to enter any one of four apartments he knew would be vacant?
Risky perhaps ... but as a prolific burglar he would be used to taking a few risks but not so many that he wouldn't assess the risk beforehand.
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Why on earth would they conclude that no evidence would be found on the bedclothes of a missing child? Did they know in advance that she hadn’t been interfered with? Did the police tell them “nah, it’s woke and wandered mate, there won’t be anything on the bedclothes “ then or what? I mean, honestly that’s the most pathetic bit of PJ defending I’ve heard to date.
It's the senseless attacks on the PJ which are pathetic imo.
A Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory attended 5A on 4th May at the request of the PJ. I expect they would have taken Madeleine's bedding if they thought it would have yielded any evidence. They certainly checked it;
A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
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It's the senseless attacks on the PJ which are pathetic imo.
A Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory attended 5A on 4th May at the request of the PJ. I expect they would have taken Madeleine's bedding if they thought it would have yielded any evidence. They certainly checked it;
A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
I think your defence of the ineptitude of the PJ is pathetic.
The bedclothes should have been kept which would have allowed further analysis particularly with DNA being a developing science. It may well be DNA from CB was on them...we will never know
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Brueckner entered the American woman's villa. He carried his 'rape kit' with him including a video camera which he set up to record the outrage.
I would say he did that using pinpoint accuracy to half an inch on that occasion. Why on earth do you suppose he would have been unable to target the McCann apartment ... as well as the other apartments where intelligence or observation told him children would be unattended.
He used his skill for pinpoint accuracy to pinpoint the American woman's villa where he carried out a premeditated outrage.
Why do you think he would have been incapable of using his pinpoint accuracy displayed in the choice of rape victim, to enter any one of four apartments he knew would be vacant?
Risky perhaps ... but as a prolific burglar he would be used to taking a few risks but not so many that he wouldn't assess the risk beforehand.
Or if and its a mighty big if, he was involved all his supposed crimes have never involved abduction, in and out to assault a child maybe but one step further, nope.The legend is writ.
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Or if and its a mighty big if, he was involved all his supposed crimes have never involved abduction, in and out to assault a child maybe but one step further, nope.The legend is writ.
The legend is indeed writ ... but haven't you noticed (I think you have 😀😀) ... it is being rewritten even as we speak by people who are trained in doing joined up writing.
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The legend is indeed writ ... but haven't you noticed (I think you have 😀😀) ... it is being rewritten even as we speak by people who are trained in doing joined up writing.
Is that by the guy who says Madeleine is dead then later has to admit they have no evidence of such.Joined up writing in German doesn't amount to much it seems.
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Or if and its a mighty big if, he was involved all his supposed crimes have never involved abduction, in and out to assault a child maybe but one step further, nope.The legend is writ.
I think this a very very weak argumant you and other posters have made...the fact that he hadnt abducted before means he wouldnt have abducted maddie. Taken to it's clearly absurd conclusion it would mean there would never ever be any abductions or in fact any crime at all.
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Is that by the guy who says Madeleine is dead then later has to admit they have no evidence of such.Joined up writing in German doesn't amount to much it seems.
Do you understand the term context...there is obvioulsy evidence that maddie is dead...we all know that
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Do you understand the term context...there is obvioulsy evidence that maddie is dead...we all know that
Go on then argue this chaps point.
‘WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE’ Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE admits German prosecutor who said she was dead
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/11857827/madeleine-mccann-still-alive-german-prosecutor/
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Go on then argue this chaps point.
‘WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE’ Madeleine McCann could still be ALIVE admits German prosecutor who said she was dead
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/11857827/madeleine-mccann-still-alive-german-prosecutor/
from The Sun
No context
worthless
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Is that by the guy who says Madeleine is dead then later has to admit they have no evidence of such.Joined up writing in German doesn't amount to much it seems.
The police are following the evidence. They are not creating "the legend" by making it up as they go along then "printing the legend" in a book of opinions and lies written by a convicted perjurer.
If Brueckner is never charged in relation to offences against Madeleine it will be partly because there there is no supporting evidence thirteen years down the line.
Unlike thirteen years ago when information was fresh ... particularly mobile phone communications readily available at the time but not fully interrogated.
Unfortunately the police focus was on the McCann party and not until 2011 when I believe Scotland Yard took in the broader picture of the data was the full potential for the investigative use of such information realised.
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The police are following the evidence. They are not creating "the legend" by making it up as they go along then "printing the legend" in a book of opinions and lies written by a convicted perjurer.
If Brueckner is never charged in relation to offences against Madeleine it will be partly because there there is no supporting evidence thirteen years down the line.
Unlike thirteen years ago when information was fresh ... particularly mobile phone communications readily available at the time but not fully interrogated.
Unfortunately the police focus was on the McCann party and not until 2011 when I believe Scotland Yard took in the broader picture of the data was the full potential for the investigative use of such information realised.
Then again maybe the guy never met Maddie in his entire life and whole thing is a concoction?
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I think your defence of the ineptitude of the PJ is pathetic.
The bedclothes should have been kept which would have allowed further analysis particularly with DNA being a developing science. It may well be DNA from CB was on them...we will never know
When I see realistic criticism of the PJ I might defend them. At the moment all I've seen is accusations of ineptitude by people who have offered no evidence of it.
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The police are following the evidence. They are not creating "the legend" by making it up as they go along then "printing the legend" in a book of opinions and lies written by a convicted perjurer.
If Brueckner is never charged in relation to offences against Madeleine it will be partly because there there is no supporting evidence thirteen years down the line
Unlike thirteen years ago when information was fresh ... particularly mobile phone communications readily available at the time but not fully interrogated.
Unfortunately the police focus was on the McCann party and not until 2011 when I believe Scotland Yard took in the broader picture of the data was the full potential for the investigative use of such information realised.
Or he had nothing to do with it in the first place.
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from The Sun
No context
worthless
Strangely you'll believe he has concrete evidence yet when saying they have no forensics to say she is dead is unreliable.
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The police are following the evidence. They are not creating "the legend" by making it up as they go along then "printing the legend" in a book of opinions and lies written by a convicted perjurer.
If Brueckner is never charged in relation to offences against Madeleine it will be partly because there there is no supporting evidence thirteen years down the line.
Unlike thirteen years ago when information was fresh ... particularly mobile phone communications readily available at the time but not fully interrogated.
Unfortunately the police focus was on the McCann party and not until 2011 when I believe Scotland Yard took in the broader picture of the data was the full potential for the investigative use of such information realised.
The only way for him to involved is to have knocked down Madeleine in his car and because of past history, disposed of and hightailed it away, prove it wrong prosecutor, perfect defence. No evidence of intruder or a breakin in 5a.
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The only way for him to involved is to have knocked down Madeleine in his car and because of past history, disposed of and hightailed it away, prove it wrong prosecutor, perfect defence. No evidence of intruder or a breakin in 5a.
and if maddie woke and wandered thats the mcanns responsibility
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The only way for him to involved is to have knocked down Madeleine in his car and because of past history, disposed of and hightailed it away, prove it wrong prosecutor, perfect defence. No evidence of intruder or a breakin in 5a.
The open window which it seems was his normal MO is evidence of an intruder. Everything depends on what this strong evidence is that HCW says he has
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The open window which it seems was his normal MO is evidence of an intruder. Everything depends on what this strong evidence is that HCW says he has
Shame the parents didn’t check that the windows were locked when they left their children alone eh.
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Shame the parents didn’t check that the windows were locked when they left their children alone eh.
It's believable of a couple of teenagers, but not a pair of mature doctors imo. Strolling off and leaving three babies without even the protection of a locked door, never mind the window.
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It's believable of a couple of teenagers, but not a pair of mature doctors imo. Strolling off and leaving three babies without even the protection of a locked door, never mind the window.
If you have followed the case you would understand they thought the shutters were added security and couldn't be opened from the outside
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Then again maybe the guy never met Maddie in his entire life and whole thing is a concoction?
I don't think we have an 'Amaral concoction' here. I think we have honest hard working police work following years of evidence some of which goes back to the night before Madeleine's disappearance and as I have seen it suggested in print or film, Brueckner's disappearance either then or shortly thereafter.
I believe when he returned he was driving the Winnebago.
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Or he had nothing to do with it in the first place.
If there is evidence to charge him ... he will be charged. If there is no evidence ... he won't be.
Please do remember there was no evidence against Madeleine's parents, and I see no sceptics suggesting that is because they "had nothing to do with it in the first place." Or am I missing something?
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The only way for him to involved is to have knocked down Madeleine in his car and because of past history, disposed of and hightailed it away, prove it wrong prosecutor, perfect defence. No evidence of intruder or a breakin in 5a.
If there is evidence to support charging Brueckner regarding Madeleine's abduction, we shall just have to wait and see what defence will be presented on his behalf.
For some reason I don't think it will be the one you suggest.
Not everyone has an apparent visceral need to disprove the presence of an intruder who committed the offence against Madeleine.
Much as no-one tried to pretend Brueckner's American rape victim was wandering the streets and Brueckner didn't illegally invade her home ... of which by the way, I have never seen or heard reports of forced entry.
He left one tiny trace of himself in the villa which was found and retained but which could have so easily been overlooked.
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If there is evidence to charge him ... he will be charged. If there is no evidence ... he won't be.
Please do remember there was no evidence against Madeleine's parents, and I see no sceptics suggesting that is because they "had nothing to do with it in the first place." Or am I missing something?
Don't know,but this thread is not about the McCann's,try and stay on topic.
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If you have followed the case you would understand they thought the shutters were added security and couldn't be opened from the outside
Did they say that or is it just your opinion of what they thought?
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Did they say that or is it just your opinion of what they thought?
If you remember both Kate and Gerry went ouside to check if the shutters could be opened from the outside
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If you remember both Kate and Gerry went ouside to check if the shutters could be opened from the outside
Why did it matter, it wasn't the only way in.
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Why did it matter, it wasn't the only way in.
because the window was open obviously
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Don't know,but this thread is not about the McCann's,try and stay on topic.
Did you intend your post to be insolent as well as inaccurate because in my opinion you have effortlessly attained both although I have chosen to give your ignorance the benefit of the doubt.
My post is not off topic although your reply might very well be.
My post draws the very marked comparison between the situation should the police be unable to lay charges against Brueckner because of lack of evidence and the contrary hypocritical situation contrived by sceptics regarding Madeleine’s parents.
Snip
If there is evidence to charge him ... he will be charged. If there is no evidence ... he won't be.
Please do remember there was no evidence against Madeleine's parents, and I see no sceptics suggesting that is because they "had nothing to do with it in the first place." Or am I missing something? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11656.msg615322#msg615322
It is known as debate ~ which is normal on a discussion forum.
Unfortunately your response shows only your inadequacy to take the debate any further or throw any light on the apparent propensity of sceptics to leap to the defence of the many faceted career criminal known as Brueckner … and their abominable behaviour with regard to Madeleine’s parents.
Without the untiring efforts of whom very likely there would be no debate regarding whether or not Brueckner will be charged leaving sceptics in freedom to do what I think sceptics do best.
With or without any involvement in Madeleine's case I think Brueckner may well end up as one of the more prolific European offenders any of us have heard about.
It seems that given the opportunity to do so, you are unwilling or unable to justify sceptic defence of a guy who already has a rap sheet second to none.
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It's the senseless attacks on the PJ which are pathetic imo.
A Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory attended 5A on 4th May at the request of the PJ. I expect they would have taken Madeleine's bedding if they thought it would have yielded any evidence. They certainly checked it;
A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
So there was not a single biological trace or fibre on the bedclothes that a young child had been sleeping in for days? I find that laughable tbh.
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It's the senseless attacks on the PJ which are pathetic imo.
A Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory attended 5A on 4th May at the request of the PJ. I expect they would have taken Madeleine's bedding if they thought it would have yielded any evidence. They certainly checked it;
A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
So they did a visual exam of the sheet....it's microscopic traces that may have been important
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So many people have been criticised in order to support the McCanns that it's obviously a ploy.
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It's the senseless attacks on the PJ which are pathetic imo.
A Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory attended 5A on 4th May at the request of the PJ. I expect they would have taken Madeleine's bedding if they thought it would have yielded any evidence. They certainly checked it;
A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
"After Gerry arrived the children went to wash their teeth and she then read them another story, this time all four of them sitting on Madeleine's bed."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
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So many people have been criticised in order to support the McCanns that it's obviously a ploy.
A ploy by whom....do you think there is a conspiracy
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So many people have been criticised in order to support the McCanns that it's obviously a ploy.
@)(++(*
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A ploy by whom....do you think there is a conspiracy
She’ll be accusing us of being paid keyboard chimps before long.
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She’ll be accusing us of being paid keyboard chimps before long.
Is that you identifying yourself as someone who thinks criticising others will make a badly told story (imo) into a well told one?
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Is that you identifying yourself as someone who thinks criticising others will make a badly told story (imo) into a well told one?
There is no badly told story...the McCanns are not liars.....and no one here is part of any organised group to protect them...it's a totally crazy idea..which posters are you accusing..lol
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There is no badly told story...the McCanns are not liars.....and no one here is part of any organised group to protect them...it's a totally crazy idea..which posters are you accusing..lol
IYO
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Is that you identifying yourself as someone who thinks criticising others will make a badly told story (imo) into a well told one?
they can be hostile cant they
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they can be hostile cant they
I don't think they can't not
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Is that you identifying yourself as someone who thinks criticising others will make a badly told story (imo) into a well told one?
I have no idea what you are on about, you seem to have lost the plot.
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She’ll be accusing us of being paid keyboard chimps before long.
One learns a new vocabulary of words and phrases on the McCann boards. The first new word I learned was "shill".
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There is no badly told story...the McCanns are not liars.....and no one here is part of any organised group to protect them...it's a totally crazy idea..which posters are you accusing..lol
I agree...it is a crazy idea. No amount of money could buy the cult-like loyalty displayed by certain supporters of the parents.
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I agree...it is a crazy idea. No amount of money could buy the cult-like loyalty displayed by certain supporters of the parents.
I have wondered why so though?
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I have wondered why so though?
I have wondered why so though?
What's the difference between a cult like loyalist and a truth seeker.... Sceptics think they are truth seekers.
Not sure why Angelo is encouraging off topic posts
Perhaps if posters want a thread attacking the motives of supporters a mod should start a new thread
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I agree...it is a crazy idea. No amount of money could buy the cult-like loyalty displayed by certain supporters of the parents.
Very true 8((()*/
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What's the difference between a cult like loyalist and a truth seeker.... Sceptics think they are truth seekers.
Not sure why Angelo is encouraging off topic posts
Perhaps if posters want a thread attacking the motives of supporters a mod should start a new thread
You wouldn't like the truth imo. As for Brueckner just to keep on topic, I don't believe the Germans have anything to charge him with.
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You wouldn't like the truth imo. As for Brueckner just to keep on topic, I don't believe the Germans have anything to charge him with.
I don't see any truth......you don't know what the Germans have... Just more speculation
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What's the difference between a cult like loyalist and a truth seeker.... Sceptics think they are truth seekers.
Not sure why Angelo is encouraging off topic posts
Perhaps if posters want a thread attacking the motives of supporters a mod should start a new thread
Also encouraging a post which is goading and off topic.
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I don't see any truth......you don't know what the Germans have... Just more speculation
Of course it is.
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Very true 8((()*/
Twice you have "bumped" a goading and offensive post.
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Twice you have "bumped" a goading and offensive post.
It seems Angelo thinks faiths posts have value... I find such posts childish and stupid.. Lol.
But please mods... Don't complain about posters making insults and taking threads off topic when a senior mod is encouraging it
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It seems Angelo thinks faiths posts have value... I find such posts childish and stupid.. Lol.
But please mods... Don't complain about posters making insults and taking threads off topic when a senior mod is encouraging it
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else including Faith. IMHO the Germans have nothing on Brueckner and that is why they are refusing to bring anything to the table. Time will bear this out though. Doing deals with a tout in a criminal case has never been a good idea.
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You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else including Faith. IMHO the Germans have nothing on Brueckner and that is why they are refusing to bring anything to the table. Time will bear this out though. Doing deals with a tout in a criminal case has never been a good idea.
Opinions attacking other posters, are against forum rules, as you well know
You say the Germans have nothing
HCW, say they have strong evidence..
I don't see your post as logical
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Also encouraging a post which is goading and off topic.
Not goading, simply true but perhaps you’d like to look back and see who steered the thread off topic ?
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Opinions attacking other posters, are against forum rules, as you well know
You say the Germans have nothing
HCW, say they have strong evidence..
I don't see your post as logical
Three months on and not a charge laid. That certainly doesn’t suggest the prosecutor has ‘strong evidence’ merely that he wants us to believe he has.
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So many people have been criticised in order to support the McCanns that it's obviously a ploy.
Here’s the culprit - another mod no less, taking the thread off topic with a nasty implication.
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they can be hostile cant they
Who can?
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So faith criticises moderation... Angelo supports her.. Faith posts goading off topic post.. Angelo supports her...
John deletes it all tonight.. LLL
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Not goading, simply true but perhaps you’d like to look back and see who steered the thread off topic ?
Not goading, simply true..............Lol.
No it's goading and your goading post has been agreed with by a moderator.
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Who can?
Carly never ever answers a supporters post.
I believe it is we "cult like " supporters who can be hostile.
So many goading posts being allowed!
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Carly never ever answers a supporters post.
I believe it is we "cult like " supporters who can be hostile.
So many goading posts being allowed!
I find Carly's posts goading and hostile towards supporters.
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Not goading, simply true..............Lol.
No it's goading and your goading post has been agreed with by a moderator.
Could you please stop taking the thread off topic ?
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Carly never ever answers a supporters post.
I believe it is we "cult like " supporters who can be hostile.
So many goading posts being allowed!
I hadn't noticed. Does Carly ever answer anything?
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Please don't target other members and stay on topic - "If Brueckner is Never Charged"
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Please don't target other members and stay on topic - "If Brueckner is Never Charged"
Sound advice... Precisely what I've been asking for
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Please don't target other members and stay on topic - "If Brueckner is Never Charged"
I think if they had proof they would charge him. They may have very good grounds to suspect him, but other people have been suspected as well.
I can't believe his girlfriend claims he abused her young daughter? WTF did she do about that? AND what about the 'friend' who was privy to Brueckner 'confession' when did he give out after being told the grusome tales of his friend?
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I think if they had proof they would charge him. They may have very good grounds to suspect him, but other people have been suspected as well.
I can't believe his girlfriend claims he abused her young daughter? WTF did she do about that? AND what about the 'friend' who was privy to Brueckner 'confession' when did he give out after being told the grusome tales of his friend?
I tend to think the suspicions are based on others words not evidence.
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I tend to think the suspicions are based on others words not evidence.
Then it would appear what you tend to think is, in this case arrant nonsense ...
Madeleine McCann suspect jailed for abusing ex-girlfriend’s five-year-old daughter
It has emerged that Christian Brueckner, the new lead suspect in the disappearance of British toddler Madeleine McCann, was jailed for abusing his ex-girlfriend’s five-year-old daughter.
In 2013, Brueckner, 43, sexually abused the young child in a public park in Braunschweig, northern Germany. At the time, Brueckner ran a kiosk selling drinks and snacks.
After assaulting the little girl, Brueckner took graphic photographs that he stored on his digital camera and laptop.
https://extra.ie/2020/08/17/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-jailed-abusing-five-year-old
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Then it would appear what you tend to think is, in this case arrant nonsense ...
Madeleine McCann suspect jailed for abusing ex-girlfriend’s five-year-old daughter
It has emerged that Christian Brueckner, the new lead suspect in the disappearance of British toddler Madeleine McCann, was jailed for abusing his ex-girlfriend’s five-year-old daughter.
In 2013, Brueckner, 43, sexually abused the young child in a public park in Braunschweig, northern Germany. At the time, Brueckner ran a kiosk selling drinks and snacks.
After assaulting the little girl, Brueckner took graphic photographs that he stored on his digital camera and laptop.
https://extra.ie/2020/08/17/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-jailed-abusing-five-year-old
I was talking about his alleged involvement in the Mccann case,of course you knew full well that's what I meant, you're just posting anything/something which for some unfathomable reason you seem to think it suggest's he's involved.Has he been charged,no! thought not.
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I was talking about his alleged involvement in the Mccann case,of course you knew full well that's what I meant, you're just posting anything/something which for some unfathomable reason you seem to think it suggest's he's involved.Has he been charged,no! thought not.
I saw a report about aspanish case...totally unrelated...but..
germany has a similar justice system as I understand....and in spain charges are only laid shortly before the trial...thats how it works
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I saw a report about aspanish case...totally unrelated...but..
germany has a similar justice system as I understand....and in spain charges are only laid shortly before the trial...thats how it works
Charges don't always mean a trial will follow;
The first phase of a German criminal prosecution is pre-trial investigation to determine if there are grounds for a formal indictment. If a prosecutor determines that there is, the case is transferred to the appropriate German court, where the presiding judge decides if the evidence warrants a trial.
https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/legal.html#:~:text=The%20first%20phase%20of%20a,the%20evidence%20warrants%20a%20trial.
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I was talking about his alleged involvement in the Mccann case,of course you knew full well that's what I meant, you're just posting anything/something which for some unfathomable reason you seem to think it suggest's he's involved.Has he been charged,no! thought not.
Nope follow the conversation, that is what I did.
You posted in direct response to a post casting doubt on the sexual assault on a five year old girl ... "I tend to think the suspicions are based on others words not evidence." Suggesting that there was only gossip from girlfriend and acquaintances to substantiate allegations made against Brueckner.
Quite obviously that suggestion is wrong. Brueckner has been convicted on numerous occasions that particular assault being one on which you have cast doubt.
I have merely rectified your erroneous opinion with fact.
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I was talking about his alleged involvement in the Mccann case,of course you knew full well that's what I meant, you're just posting anything/something which for some unfathomable reason you seem to think it suggest's he's involved.Has he been charged,no! thought not.
I take it you’ve always stood in DP’s corner like you have for CB every time a sceptic brought up the Gaspar statement? No, thought not. Obviously a bit of nipple twiddling is FAR more damning than a criminal record as long as your arm which involves burglary, rape and child abuse.
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For any who might doubt the vicious rape which occurred in Praia da Rocha 2004 the archived case file consists of 110 pages.
Which included information that a swab from a medical examination had been destroyed in 2007 because it hadn’t been kept properly.
The file also contained the information that no other cases existed where the same modus operandi had been used.
Which was not the case for the rape which was perpetrated just a year later in Praia da Luz. Praia da Rocha was the precedent for what happened there yet the Portuguese police ignored that there might be a link to the rape which had occurred in Praia da Rocha the previous year.
Imagine either the incompetence or the deliberate disregard of that information, because it had to be one or the other.
The Germans were able to secure a conviction in the Praia da Luz case because someone had overlooked the destruction of the evidence which should have happened as per procedure in 2010 and the Portuguese were able to send it to Germany in 2018 which no doubt played its part in Brueckner's conviction.
It remains to be seen what if anything can be salvaged from the the first assault in 2004 to make a viable prosecution as was done for the copycat assault of 2005 when the Germans took over the case in 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/22/portugal-police-could-reopen-case-irish-woman-hazel-behan-2004-madeleine-mccann
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For any who might doubt the vicious rape which occurred in Praia da Rocha 2004 the archived case file consists of 110 pages.
Which included information that a swab from a medical examination had been destroyed in 2007 because it hadn’t been kept properly.
The file also contained the information that no other cases existed where the same modus operandi had been used.
Which was not the case for the rape which was perpetrated just a year later in Praia da Luz. Praia da Rocha was the precedent for what happened there yet the Portuguese police ignored that there might be a link to the rape which had occurred in Praia da Rocha the previous year.
Imagine either the incompetence or the deliberate disregard of that information, because it had to be one or the other.
The Germans were able to secure a conviction in the Praia da Luz case because someone had overlooked the destruction of the evidence which should have happened as per procedure in 2010 and the Portuguese were able to send it to Germany in 2018 which no doubt played its part in Brueckner's conviction.
It remains to be seen what if anything can be salvaged from the the first assault in 2004 to make a viable prosecution as was done for the copycat assault of 2005 when the Germans took over the case in 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/22/portugal-police-could-reopen-case-irish-woman-hazel-behan-2004-madeleine-mccann
Forensics were taken at the scene and the DNA subsequently retrieved did not match Brueckner. That the Portuguese may have been incompetent, unsympathetic etc etc may be true, the U.K. police, it appears, do not differ greatly from their Portuguese counterparts in that respect, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
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Forensics were taken at the scene and the DNA subsequently retrieved did not match Brueckner. That the Portuguese may have been incompetent, unsympathetic etc etc may be true, the U.K. police, it appears, do not differ greatly from their Portuguese counterparts in that respect, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
do you have a cite for the dna did not match...are you relying on an article in a tabloid
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German authorities are preparing and probably finalising Brückner’s charge sheet in order to bring the case to court to ensure successful prosecution with the desired outcome. For this reason they will not release any more information into the public domain (for now) to ensure that their case is solid and ready to move forward. My opinion. Wolters said that he’s going to be ‘quiet’ for the next couple of months while their investigation proceeds. Hypothetically they already may have substantial evidence, albeit circumstantial e.g Brückner in holiday pictures of visitors to Praia da Luz at the time; confirmation from witnesses such as Tasmin Silence, Jeni Weinberger, the Jensen sisters, Carole Tranmer etc. as to the identity of the man/men watching the apartment; phone records from 28 April 2007 onwards pertaining to his number; picture evidence of Madeleine’s location but upon searching she has been moved and hence not recovered; etc. As Davel has pointed out, we simply do not know at this stage. My opinion.
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German authorities are preparing and probably finalising Brückner’s charge sheet in order to bring the case to court to ensure successful prosecution with the desired outcome. For this reason they will not release any more information into the public domain (for now) to ensure that their case is solid and ready to move forward. My opinion. Wolters said that he’s going to be ‘quiet’ for the next couple of months while their investigation proceeds. Hypothetically they already may have substantial evidence, albeit circumstantial e.g Brückner in holiday pictures of visitors to Praia da Luz at the time; confirmation from witnesses such as Tasmin Silence, Jeni Weinberger, the Jensen sisters, Carole Tranmer etc. as to the identity of the man/men watching the apartment; phone records from 28 April 2007 onwards pertaining to his number; picture evidence of Madeleine’s location but upon searching she has been moved and hence not recovered; etc. As Davel has pointed out, we simply do not know at this stage. My opinion.
8@??)(
What a comprehensive and well thought out post. Well done Anthro
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German authorities are preparing and probably finalising Brückner’s charge sheet in order to bring the case to court to ensure successful prosecution with the desired outcome. For this reason they will not release any more information into the public domain (for now) to ensure that their case is solid and ready to move forward. My opinion. Wolters said that he’s going to be ‘quiet’ for the next couple of months while their investigation proceeds. Hypothetically they already may have substantial evidence, albeit circumstantial e.g Brückner in holiday pictures of visitors to Praia da Luz at the time; confirmation from witnesses such as Tasmin Silence, Jeni Weinberger, the Jensen sisters, Carole Tranmer etc. as to the identity of the man/men watching the apartment; phone records from 28 April 2007 onwards pertaining to his number; picture evidence of Madeleine’s location but upon searching she has been moved and hence not recovered; etc. As Davel has pointed out, we simply do not know at this stage. My opinion.
That isn’t even a circumstantial case. Brueckner in or near PDL at the time...so we’re thousands of people and I’m sure several with a history of sexual violence. Not sure what you mean about the witnesses...have any of them identified Brueckner ? TS said the man she saw was extremely ugly and had a pockmarked face, Brueckner is neither ugly nor pockmarked. The another witnesses describe a generic white man with differing hair and yet again none have identified Brueckner or he would have been charged. He used his phone near PDL...yet again not a suspicious act. Not sure what you mean by your last point.
In my opinion, Wolter hasn’t enough evidence even to question Brueckner never mind charge him and I doubt that reality will change.
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That isn’t even a circumstantial case. Brueckner in or near PDL at the time...so we’re thousands of people and I’m sure several with a history of sexual violence. Not sure what you mean about the witnesses...have any of them identified Brueckner ? TS said the man she saw was extremely ugly and had a pockmarked face, Brueckner is neither ugly nor pockmarked. The another witnesses describe a generic white man with differing hair and yet again none have identified Brueckner or he would have been charged. He used his phone near PDL...yet again not a suspicious act. Not sure what you mean by your last point.
In my opinion, Wolter hasn’t enough evidence even to question Brueckner never mind charge him and I doubt that reality will change.
If that's what you want to think feel free ..it doesn't matter in the slightest..he doesn't need much evidence to question him if he wants..in fact he probably doesn't need any..just a suspicion.
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That isn’t even a circumstantial case. Brueckner in or near PDL at the time...so we’re thousands of people and I’m sure several with a history of sexual violence. Not sure what you mean about the witnesses...have any of them identified Brueckner ? TS said the man she saw was extremely ugly and had a pockmarked face, Brueckner is neither ugly nor pockmarked. The another witnesses describe a generic white man with differing hair and yet again none have identified Brueckner or he would have been charged. He used his phone near PDL...yet again not a suspicious act. Not sure what you mean by your last point.
In my opinion, Wolter hasn’t enough evidence even to question Brueckner never mind charge him and I doubt that reality will change.
You really don't know what evidence Hans Christian Wolters has and I think you may be unpleasantly surprised if although I rather think it will be when he decides to press forward with it.
Not forgetting that a great deal of information has come in which all has to be processed which takes time. I think his priority is to find Madeleine whichever 50% category she falls into bearing in mind that without evidence to the contrary Wolters concedes she may still be alive.
In my opinion the only people who have a stake in moving the investigation forward is the McCann family for whom this must be Hell on earth. We are dabblers and dilettantes in other peoples' lives so it really isn't life changing for us as it is for them.
Brueckner is going nowhere for some time yet.
Therefore there is all the time in the world for the Germans to take their time and conduct their case appropriately; and I don't think they are about to be rushed into premature decisions until they are good and ready to proceed.
I think Madeleine and her family deserve that amount of respect.
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That isn’t even a circumstantial case. Brueckner in or near PDL at the time...so we’re thousands of people and I’m sure several with a history of sexual violence. Not sure what you mean about the witnesses...have any of them identified Brueckner ? TS said the man she saw was extremely ugly and had a pockmarked face, Brueckner is neither ugly nor pockmarked. The another witnesses describe a generic white man with differing hair and yet again none have identified Brueckner or he would have been charged. He used his phone near PDL...yet again not a suspicious act. Not sure what you mean by your last point.
In my opinion, Wolter hasn’t enough evidence even to question Brueckner never mind charge him and I doubt that reality will change.
‘My opinion’ as required by the Forum’s rules.
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That isn’t even a circumstantial case. Brueckner in or near PDL at the time...so we’re thousands of people and I’m sure several with a history of sexual violence. Not sure what you mean about the witnesses...have any of them identified Brueckner ? TS said the man she saw was extremely ugly and had a pockmarked face, Brueckner is neither ugly nor pockmarked. The another witnesses describe a generic white man with differing hair and yet again none have identified Brueckner or he would have been charged. He used his phone near PDL...yet again not a suspicious act. Not sure what you mean by your last point.
In my opinion, Wolter hasn’t enough evidence even to question Brueckner never mind charge him and I doubt that reality will change.
I totally agree. Wolter is a glory hunter with no evidence imo.
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I totally agree. Wolter is a glory hunter with no evidence imo.
I think several posters are going to look more than a little foolish when Wolters questions CB and we see what his evidence is
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I totally agree. Wolter is a glory hunter with no evidence imo.
” A truly innocent person will speak freely and openly to detectives” and yet we know CB has asserted he will not, ergo by your own logic CB has something to hide, o why do you write Wolters off as nothing more than a glory hunter?
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I think several posters are going to look more than a little foolish when Wolters questions CB and we see what his evidence is
And some are going to look rather silly when it all goes sour as it did with the Azores chappie who died in a tractor accident.
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” A truly innocent person will speak freely and openly to detectives” and yet we know CB has asserted he will not, ergo by your own logic CB has something to hide, o why do you write Wolters off as nothing more than a glory hunter?
Bloody hell...do you ever read my responses? I said Brueckner has plenty to hide, he's a serial paedophile.
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And some are going to look rather silly when it all goes sour as it did with the Azores chappie who died in a tractor accident.
We will see. HCW says he has enough evidence to show CB killed MM...he says he has concrete/material/ evidence...we will soon see what it is
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Bloody hell...do you ever read my responses? I said Brueckner has plenty to hide, he's a serial paedophile.
You are just making excuses imo...again...we will soon see...if youve followed what HCW has said
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Bloody hell...do you ever read my responses? I said Brueckner has plenty to hide, he's a serial paedophile.
Bloody hell yourself, you rude article. It’s questions about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance he is refusing to answer questions about.
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You really don't know what evidence Hans Christian Wolters has and I think you may be unpleasantly surprised if although I rather think it will be when he decides to press forward with it.
Not forgetting that a great deal of information has come in which all has to be processed which takes time. I think his priority is to find Madeleine whichever 50% category she falls into bearing in mind that without evidence to the contrary Wolters concedes she may still be alive.
In my opinion the only people who have a stake in moving the investigation forward is the McCann family for whom this must be Hell on earth. We are dabblers and dilettantes in other peoples' lives so it really isn't life changing for us as it is for them.
Brueckner is going nowhere for some time yet.
Therefore there is all the time in the world for the Germans to take their time and conduct their case appropriately; and I don't think they are about to be rushed into premature decisions until they are good and ready to proceed.
I think Madeleine and her family deserve that amount of respect.
“ I think his priority is to find Madeleine whichever 50% category she falls into bearing in mind that without evidence to the contrary Wolters concedes she may still be alive.”
I’m afraid your post is contrary. If he does think that there is a 50% chance that Madeleine is alive, and a cite for this would be good, then it’s imperative that he gets a move on and questions Brueckner. If Madeleine is alive the worldwide publicity around him could well panic whoever has her which would put her welfare in grave doubt.
I’m not sure why you think stringing this investigation out is in Madeleine’s or her family’s interests.
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Bloody hell yourself, you rude article. It’s questions about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance he is refusing to answer questions about.
A serial offender is hardly going to want to answer any questions posed by police is he my good chap?
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A serial offender is hardly going to want to answer any questions posed by police is he my good chap?
if he fails to say where he was on the night of the icident...combined with other evidence ...taht may be enough to see him convicted...lets hope he keeps quiet
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A serial offender is hardly going to want to answer any questions posed by police is he my good chap?
Nor is a person who believes they are being fitted up for a crime they didn’t commit, my dear young lady.
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Bloody hell...do you ever read my responses? I said Brueckner has plenty to hide, he's a serial paedophile.
Could you edit out the “bloody hell” as well? I find you use of these words at the beginning of this post addressed to me both aggressive and intimidating.
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Could you edit out the “bloody hell” as well? I find you use of these words at the beginning of this post addressed to me both aggressive and intimidating.
It's a valid expression so no.
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It's a valid expression so no.
Bloody Hell, I shall remember to use it more often then.
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Bloody Hell, I shall remember to use it more often then.
You have to understand it's total panic stations for those who have been saying abduction never happened ...I think we have to cut them a little slack
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You have to understand it's total panic stations for those who have been saying abduction never happened ...I think we have to cut them a little slaack
Why?
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Bloody Hell, I shall remember to use it more often then.
"Bloody hell", What next? You are starting to sound like an Aussie.
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"Bloody hell", What next? You are starting to sound like an Aussie.
I think you’ll find they say “bloody oath” cobber.
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"Bloody hell", What next? You are starting to sound like an Aussie.
It was common in NW England when I was a child.
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It was common in NW England when I was a child.
I once got a detention for saying “bloody hell” as a school girl. Glad to know that on here it is a valid expression that one can use without getting a warning.
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I once got a detention for saying “bloody hell” as a school girl. Glad to know that on here it is a valid expression that one can use without getting a warning.
So am I. It's a favourite of mine for many a long year. But you should never say, "Bleeding Hell" because it's common.
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So am I. It's a favourite of mine for many a long year. But you should never say, "Bleeding Hell" because it's common.
Thanks, I’ll bear that in mind.
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They did not even have his DNA.
He was not trapped in the rape case. PJ would never connect him with that case, only because Germans insisted it he was charged.
The Irish girls rape case, in contrary, had the evidence destroyed because they could not match it with anyone in their database.
Catching up on this thread.
It's not clear to me whether it was just the physical traces of DNA that were destroyed (if the reports are accurate) or whether the digital record was as well.
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It would be much easier to retain a digital record than physical material, so why destroy it?
Furthermore, as much of the work was done by UK forensic scientists, I'm confident that UK police would keep a copy with their records.
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What I cannot understand is that the Portuguese knew CB was a sex offender as he told them. So, when the hair was found on the bed when they investigated the rape, why didn't they investigate CB?
Erm, way before he admitted that in court, he'd been arrested by the PJ (in 1999) and extradited for child sex offences committed in Germany back in 1995.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-suspect-german-christian-brueckner-portugal-prison-a9550721.html
His PJ mugshots taken on 13/ 7 /1999, presumably just prior to his extradition, unless this was related to a different unconfirmed theft in PT:
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629
On 8 / 1 / 2004 (I checked at some point, and this would appear to be Jan 8, not Aug 1) he got a rap for a motoring offense re his Jag, model X (...). From memory, it was because he hadn't changed his plates (which would only apply to residents, not tourists). The plates at the time ended in (...)M-GE-2034. (The Sexta9 logo covers up the first part). The home address given at the time was Sitio das Lages, Valverde, PdL, and his work address was Taberna de Lagos, Rua Dr Joaquim Tello , Lagos.
Hazel, the young Irish woman, was raped on June 16, 2004 at around 1 am in Praia da Rocha.
Joana Cipriano disappeared on September 12 2004 from Figueira, around a 10 min drive from Monte Judeo (where he had his other residence).
The 72-year-old in PdL was raped in 2005.
In 2006, he was arrested over the diesel theft, and was held on remand until Dec 2006.
Various female children were abused or could potentially have ended up being abused in or around PdL in that rough timeframe.
(Edited to correct date of Joana's disappearance.)
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It would be much easier to retain a digital record than physical material, so why destroy it?
Furthermore, as much of the work was done by UK forensic scientists, I'm confident that UK police would keep a copy with their records.
Jassi, my reply to Vixte concerned the Hazel case (2004). It's possible that the DNA in her case didn't match his, and was ruled out at some point and I missed an episode.
My comment was more general. Tabloids tend to make a hooha about destroying DNA evidence, when in fact it may be simply the biological sample that is, unless a request is made to keep it. Not sure why, possibly due to health and safety. There are also laws in several countries as to how long DNA results can be kept on databases... I'd have to check back as I'm not sure PT even had one back in 2004. However, the lab would presumably have retained the results in their files and the results could have been checked more recently.
In the American lady's case, I doubt that his conviction could have been made on the basis of an mtDNA result from a hair, therefore it would seem more likely to me that they had a full nuclear DNA result. In 5A, there were numerous hairs which could only be tested for mtDNA (as the hairs didn't have roots), and that didn't correspond to any of the mtDNA profiles the PT lab was requested to check them against.
If his mtDNA haplotype (which could also be obtained from that hair) did correspond to one of the unknown ones in 5A, it wouldn't positively identify him, but would include him as a possibility, pending exclusion for other reasons.
The press appears to be mute as to whether his DNA is connected to any of the child molestation cases that occurred prior to Madeleine's disappearance (cf smelly man, etc).
It's possible that, despite his numerous convictions, he was simply unlucky at being in the wrong place at the time, and that someone else was responsible for some of the suspicions against him, but then he needs to be ruled out.