Author Topic: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates  (Read 204385 times)

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #90 on: November 13, 2016, 11:20:48 PM »
Hi nine

I never followed this case much
I dont thnk the vincent is innocent blog is unbiased
I would like to think the uk police dont fit people up in this day and age
I just dont know though
I dont though believe he was forced to confess or drugged to or drugged throughout the trial

Alot of the questions people have have to do with police secrecy, right or wrong in their investigations....perhaps the british police should take a leaf from other countries and release their police files after a case is ended... Yeah ok

But its a fact that secrecy can protect abuses of the system...it sooo should be removed as much as possible

Hi Mercury

I wish they would release things from the trial... I'd honestly would love to spend the time sifting through the 1300 page document of the timelines, because it was presented to the defence on the day of the trial, they didnt have enough time to go through it properly.

And when I read certain aspects of the case and they go backwards and forwards to try to confuse, it infact does that..

For instance, the third text Joanna recieves appears that she gets it after she is home, because she has already replied to Peter..
Quote
She phoned several male friends and told how she was bored.
She texted Samuel Ashcroft:
“Where are you this fine eve?”
His reply was “Home- sorry”.
She then texted Peter: “Where are you?”
Peter replied “On my way to a wedding. Where are you?”
She replied: “At home- on my todd”!
She texted a third male friend.
She has said she was bored and she was looking for company.
page 51 sally ramage papers

I dont understand why they didnt say that it was MW, which i posted a link to on an earlier post.

What time was that text, because in the paper they said 8.20.. but that couldnt be correct because she was at home.. so was it later??  if so which time. And why don't they mention his name??

The police May have or may not have anything to hide, then they should be more transparent and it would stop people questioning , what is the official line is on certain events..

People do and have admitted to a crime they haven't committed, I cannot guess why Vincent Tabak might have done that... That's like me imaging whats going on in your head right now..I don't know...

And i don't know why he admitted guilt. (unless he did it... But.. And there it is... theres always a But) Not having his girlfriend especially testify in court and no one as a character witness is very strange indeed..

I would have at least expected Tanja to give her account of the weekend and the days leading up to Vincent Tabaks arrest in person. She was in a prime position to explain what his behaviour was like and if she felt it was different to his usual self.. If he didnt sleep properly, if he drank excessively. If she found him secretive.

If things looked different in their flat when she arrived back home after the party? lots of little niggly questions.


Statistically strangers do not move strangers bodies from home crime scene. (this puzzles me)

But I still have many questions And some I fear may be uncomfortable.

And i genuinley do not want to be disrepectful...

But its difficult when you end up asking uncomfortable questions not to appear like you are being disrespectful

And i'm truly not

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2016, 01:05:42 AM »
The prison Chaplain:

Very important because this is what lead to Vincent Tabak pleading guilty, as events seem to suggest:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/10/12/the-joanna-yeates-trial-and-the-salvation-army-chaplain-who-heard-a-confession-of-murder/


Ive never heard of a priest telling confessions...... who would ever trust them???

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #92 on: November 14, 2016, 10:49:21 AM »
I have a question?

What do people think about the defence that Vincent Tabak recieved?

Do you think he had a good defence from his Lawyer?

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2016, 11:50:27 AM »
what do people think as regards he was found guilty of murder?

Was it murder or was it manslaughter?

Offline mrswah

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #94 on: November 14, 2016, 12:34:58 PM »
Goodness, Nine and Mercury, you have been busy!!

It was not a satisfactory trial, partly because VT had pleaded guilty to manslaughter.  Therefore, nobody was asking "Did he do it?"  He had already said he had done it, so the lawyers in court didn't have to worry about that. They just needed to determine whether or not he meant to do it.  I have always thought it was a pity he didn't plead not guilty, then a lot more evidence would have come out at the trial, and people such as Tanja, Chris Jefferies, work colleagues, etc perhaps would have been called to testify.

That is partly why some of us are left with a lot of unanswered questions! 

Jo's murder appalled and disgusted the whole country (and rightly so), and I am sure the vast majority of people were relieved that someone was charged, tried and imprisoned for it.  People tend to think that if somebody is charged, then the police must surely "have something on them", and they dont question this.  They are just relieved that a killer is no longer walking the streets.  We are supposed to consider a suspect innocent until proved guilty, but I don't think people do in general----look at how poor Chris Jefferies was vilified, and he hadn't even been charged!

Most people don't question the tactics of the police , but people DO get stitched up sometimes, and the police DO sometimes make mistakes.  The police were under immense pressure to solve Joanna's murder.  If they hadn't , they would have had the indignity of police from elsewhere coming in to help them, or to take the case over. They had already made one mistake, and police have targets to reach, just like anyone else in a job. If a murderer is not caught, the police get the blame, and the media let everyone know about it!

We have to accept  and respect the verdicts of juries, because the law says we must, but jury members are just members of the public, like us.  They are not trained in law---in fact, I believe you can't serve on a jury if you are a lawyer.  People vary as to how "hardline" or how "liberal" they are when confronted by a defendant, and I would imagine that a lot of people are so disgusted by the crime that they are only too ready to find the defendant guilty, and that they don't ask too many questions.  You only have to read people's comments about criminals on the internet----many people are of the "lock them up and throw away the key " mentality, and many believe in capital punishment.

As for prosecution and defence barristers, I did read somewhere that winning is as important to them (or even sometimes more important) than getting to the truth.  I don't know whether that is true or not, so I won't comment any further!!!

I have already said what I think about computer evidence!!  Sally Ramage does mention that in the Tabak case it could have been concocted by the prosecution, or something to that effect.  Until I read that, I would not have believed that such a thing could happen!

I know a very law abiding and decent man who genuinely believes that it is possible to strangle somebody accidentally during sex.  Well, one learns something every day!!! 

As you know, I lean towards the feeling that VT did not kill Jo at all.  There is no motive (apart from sex, and I just dont believe that in his case:  he had only ever had one girlfriend, and he didn't even know Jo).  There is also no clear consensus on WHERE she died or WHEN she died.  We only know HOW she died.  If those questions cannot be answered, how can somebody be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt? 

It may well be the case that the police know far more than has ever been revealed to the public, and if that is so, I am sure they have good reasons for it.  However, while there are so many ifs and buts, of course some people are going to be asking questions!  It is human nature.  Lucky for the jury that they didnt have me on it!!

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #95 on: November 14, 2016, 12:57:46 PM »
Well you were busy too mrswah

I'd like to know what people think about the Intent?

He was found guilty of murder,

Did the prosecution show intent,

Or is there another reason people think that Vincent Tabak went round to Joanna Yeates flat to kill her?

Offline mrswah

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #96 on: November 14, 2016, 02:53:41 PM »

From what I have read, the fact that Joanna had 43 injuries led people to believe VT intended her harm.  However, we do not know when or how all these injuries were sustained. If they needed fire equipment and a crane to retrieve her body, some of the injuries would have been sustained then, also some might have resulted from being exposed to the snow---we just dont know.  She DID have a lot of bruises though, which can only be sustained when someone is alive, so it was obviously a violent attack on her-----it's just that I think someone other than VT did it!!  So, yes, I think it was murder----but not because of "sex" and not by VT.

Also, people don't generally believe that it is possible to strangle someone by accident, although, as I said before, I know a very decent man who disagrees with this !!!!

Also, it was thought that VT lied in court.  He said that he wanted to kiss Jo, but denied that this was sexual.  Well, I wouldn't have believed that one either!!  However, most people think VT lied in court because he wanted to make himself look less bad than he actually was.  I would say that he lied in court because he was told what to say in the first place. 


 

Alfie

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #97 on: November 14, 2016, 06:53:41 PM »
Tabak was in the house when Jo Yeates was on her last known evening alive.  He was alone and had no alibi.  He said he did it.  There is a wealth of evidence to back up his admission.  You can play these sorts of games on pretty much any case you want, indeed there are people on the internet convinced that Ian Huntley was stitched up and that Sarah Payne's murderer is a lovely man wrongly convicted.  What purpose this serves other than to make you feel like Miss Marple I do not know.  Put yourselves in the shoes of the victim's familiy for a moment and then tell me that what you're doing here is in their best interests.

jixy

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #98 on: November 14, 2016, 08:02:31 PM »
Very well said Alfie. This game could run and run but as you say he said he did it!

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #99 on: November 14, 2016, 08:17:17 PM »
Very well said Alfie. This game could run and run but as you say he said he did it!


This is not a game,
Its to look at miscarriages of justice:  That is what the site is about'

Find Damien Echols on Twitter and tell him his conviction was correct and the American Goverment should have executed him.

He was one of the West Memphis Three, and even though originally they said he did it.... HE DIDNT!!

You can't try to shut people up because you don't agree with them, having your say is what a discussion is all about, your right to have your own opinions and they my differ from other people.

But saying he's in prison job done,...  Walk away don't talk about it, .. will never stop other people voicing their concerns over his conviction.

And I do not think people are being disrespectful, it's easy to throw such a word about to undermine someones viewpoint.


jixy

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #100 on: November 14, 2016, 08:23:28 PM »
As you used a quote from me, I hope you aren't saying I am trying to shut anyone up. You seem to be doing just fine talking to your alter ego!

It seems that you don't like anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas of justice and the fight you have to see innocence even when guilt has been proven, the person has been sentenced and isn't complaining!

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2016, 08:37:42 PM »
As you used a quote from me, I hope you aren't saying I am trying to shut anyone up. You seem to be doing just fine talking to your alter ego!

It seems that you don't like anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas of justice and the fight you have to see innocence even when guilt has been proven, the person has been sentenced and isn't complaining!

jixy can i ask you what you thought about the porn tabak viewed and how that influenced your view of Vincent Tabak?

It is not about ego, I'm trying to understand how Vincent Tabak could have had the time to Kill Joanna as the prosecution have stated..

Because with the little timelines that are available, I honestly can't see him having the time or the reason for going around to her house in the first place.

jixy

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2016, 08:42:12 PM »
I think you totally misunderstood my post...

Offline mrswah

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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2016, 11:01:28 PM »
Alfie and Jixy, we are not playing games here.  We are debating:  as far as I am aware, that is what people do on forums like this.

As for the effect on victims' families, nobody intends any disrespect to them, as I have said before. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and are entitled to air them, even if the victim's family may not like it. It is called free speech!! In any case, I very much doubt whether Jo's family are reading our posts.

I do agree, however, with what Alfie says regarding Ian Huntley.  I have read a lot of stuff on the internet about people thinking he is innocent, and, having done my research, I reckon he is as guilty as sin. I think Vincent Tabak is rather different though, and I don't actually think there is much good evidence at all pointing to his guilt.


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Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #104 on: November 15, 2016, 12:57:55 AM »
I was hoping to find more timelines and i have,.. They are about Vincent Tabaks computer searches.

One particular entry caught my eye from these papers:

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf


Page 44

 
Quote
At this point the jury on Wednesday morning 19 October 2011, were invited to write into
their copy of the prosecution chart where they see the words typed in by Tabak
‘definition’ before the words ‘sexual conduct’. The jury were invited to write the word
‘definition’, so that this entry is more accurate, the prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley said,
because these words were missed out when the prosecution constructed the chart of
evidence.

How can they change the evidence, right under peoples noses???

It completely changes the context of the search and how it was implied to make Tabak's look.

He can't add to the evidence in court, why on earth didn't his lawyer object??


Iv'e tried googling Sexual Conduct or Definition of Sexual Conduct, but it always comes up with (Sexual Misconduct), so did he click on it?

I'm still astounded that the Judge allowed this to happen, was he asleep??
 
Where is the proof that Tabak actually wrote the word "DEFINITION" in a search engine with regards sexual conduct??

The jury have now gone away with an annotation on their copy of the prosecutions chart.

Hiow can he invite the jury to add something that they havent got in evidence?

Quote
The jury were invited to write the word
‘definition’, so that this entry is more accurate, the prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley said,
because these words were missed out when the prosecution constructed the chart of
evidence.

How can it be more accurate??

More accurate for whom??
If the prosecution has made an error, he can't just decide to correct it in court, (how does that work)

Tabak didn't write a sentence, he wrote TWO WORDS,



I don't know what people think about this but..
I'm gobsmacked.....