Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates

[jixy]

Have you ever read the full case files from a murder trial?

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Have you ever read the full case files from a murder trial?

No......

But I would love to read the full case files of this Murder trial.....

Especially those 1300 pages 

EDIT........... just think of all the cross referencing I could do!!!!!

The truth that lies between the pages.... The Truth that it wasn't possible for Dr Vincent Tabak to commit this crime
He HAD no TIME...
And I don't believe it was him....

I don't even think it happened in her flat!!!

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Oooo... Jixy.. you have me thinking now....

All those Timelines....

All the IT experts films...

All of those Translated texts!!!

All of the DNA Evidence and the time it took to turn around!!!

All of the prosecutions search evidence!!!

The whereabouts of all involved...

The witness statements that where read out in court

The statement of people that were not called but made statements all the same

The Information originally Given to Cook!!!

The extra information that Clegg gleaned

And of course.... be able to see all of the statements that Dr Vincent Tabak signed!!!!!

And not forgetting the 8 fire Brigade Appliances that attended the scene.........

Think that would keep me going for a while!!!!!

[mrswah]

I, too, would love to read the full case files.  I did think about getting hold of the trial transcripts, but concluded that it's probably not possible:  they tend to only keep them for 5 years, apparently, also they don't give them out to just anyone (and let's face it, I am "just anyone"), and they are extremely expensive.

I have always thought that the story VT told in court (with the dubious help of his "defence" lawyer) was a lot of rubbish, and that he had been told what to say (which is why he didn't remember half of it).  It was a made up story. It is very, very unlikely that a mild-mannered bloke with a good life and no previous form would suddenly decide to go and kill his next door neighbour.  Possible, yes---anything is possible, but very, very unlikely.


He told Mr Brotherton that he was going to plead guilty, not that he had killed Joanna.  In other words, he didn't say he'd done it, he said that he would say he'd done it. 

Since I don't know VT, I cannot be sure he isn't guilty, but I strongly suspect that he isn't.  Most of the world believes he is.  Why?  Because they automatically believe the police, they automatically believe what they read in the papers, hear on the news, and watch in documentaries. In addition (and quite rightly), they have an abhorrence of a young girl with everything to live for  being brutally killed just before Christmas , and  they are overcome with sympathy for her parents (so am I, as a matter of fact, since I have daughters of my own).

Then, there is the DNA.  Most people think DNA evidence is foolproof, even if it has been enhanced, is inconclusive, and not compelling enough evidence to convict someone.  There are plenty of articles on the internet that cast doubts on enhanced DNA, but most of us don't read them.  Just mention that DNA has been found, and people assume the defendant is guilty.  Mention computer searches, and people believe in them.  As for all the porn stuff, prostitutes, strangulation sex, women in pink tops being tied up in car boots, etc, this provided everyone with a motive.  Without it, there would be no motive, and well-bred, hard working, placid young men with good lives do not kill their neighbours for no reason.  At least, they don't often !

[jixy]

Case files and information in the media is vastly different. Nine, you seem to expect every little detail to be in the media and when its not you think its underhand, conspiracy and a down right lie.

Sometimes you have every faith in the details you read, then  its dismissed as only being the media.

The questioning you mention at trial.... have you ever been to a trial?

He pleaded guilty to Manslaughter!!!!  Cos he is guilty, you can blame the DNA, the duress you suspect happened because people didn't behave in the way YOU expected. You don't know either person, nor have you been attacked suffered 43 injuries and then lost your life!

Also remember that the Defence have to move forward with the fact he has admitted a crime. You don't like the gentle approach and then you don't like the hard handed way either. Like when he was in prison. He was moved for his protection and watched behind a Perspex door. That annoyed you and made you think duress when in fact it was a safe guarding matter and dealt with as such!

You detail what Joanna would have done, should have and could have done. How would you know? Guess work and speculation. That is dangerous.

AS I have already pointed out. He challenged the porn stuff that also annoys you so much yet he said yes I did it to manslaughter. Provided information, details etc to prove his point

You say she wouldn't have invited him in etc. The only version that you have available is via the media and you have no way of knowing what details he added or left out cos he was GUITLY and trying to save his skin hence his searches and plea of manslaughter. He didn't want to go to Prison for life and part of me thinks he never really expected to either! His plan failed. So pinch of salt needed with the finer details

You never like my replies but your posts seem very animated and personal to you and I think you lose sight of important things in the belief that has he been wronged. He has never said that anywhere. He has had the chance but no, nothing has been said. None of the mistreatment you mention has ever been spoken about let alone proven, it just helps you in your theory he is innocent

There is no check list of someone being attacked nor is there one for a murderer. Nice calm 'placid' people do such things. Even psychopaths can have charm and that is well documented too

[jixy]

The court heard that the DNA found on Miss Yeates’s chest was one million times more likely to belong to  the defendant than any other unknown individual.

Not to mention the evidence from his car. His searches his confession....

All that and then he is put under such duress he confesses to a crime he didn't commit.

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The articles I use quite often are from video's... It is from the mouths of the Police and CJ....

I use quotes and links as people can see for themselves where i obtained my information..

The Police themselves have stated that the screams were the reason that they knew what time the crime was committed..

How can that be right????

Party goers on the opposite side of the road at a time when she would not have arrived home, could not have heard her!!!

Yet screams another neighbour heard on a different day where discounted...

Since when are the screams of anyone a scientific method of discovering the time of death???? Yet as i posted DI Goff stated that was the method used to identify when Joanna Yeates died!!!

If you read my posts ... which have links and quotes.. you will find  that the Police had NO idea as to when Joanna Yeates had died!!!!

If they were absolutley certain that the time of death was on Friday 17th December 2010, then WHY did they charge Dr Vincent Tabak with the crime between the dates of 16th December 2010 and the 26th December 2010????

And why keep CJ on Bail until March 2011!!!!

Hard evidence....... Hard Evidence to prove that this is what happened

Searches that have a far greater quantity of Dutch in them... Give me evidence that I can believe in...

Lets just think about the searches and the country...... At the time thousands of people across the land were doing the same thing as Dr Vincent Tabak, if you are to believe those searches..

Thousands of people were looking up at the connection to Melanie Hall and Glenis Caruthers, People were checking Pizza , missing sock and far more bizarre searches than what apparently was done by Dr Vincent Tabak...

I question what I read... And I use information from Sally Ramage who herself a Lawyer was at the trial and had written a paper..

I'm not just hazzarding a guess!!!!!

If the searches that where supposed to be have made by Dr Vincent Tabak could not have been made by Dr Vincent Tabak as he wasn't at home at the time..
That revelation should throw up BIG questions!!!!!!

How is it possible for him to search at 1:46am and 1:47 am for weather on the 18th December 2010 when he was out of the house picking Tanja up from her christmas party!!!! And stopping to buy a burger!!!

How is that possible??????????????

On 18 Dec 2010, Tabak searched at
1.26 am- ‘BBC news’ and ‘weather forecast’
1.46 am- ‘weather forecast’
1.47 am- ‘BBC Bristol news’

This is the Prosecutions own Timeline........

Then the Defence:

Defence Counsel: You were on the Internet later. Why did you do that? Constant contact
with Tanja by phone. At I.38 am, 18 December, you were leaving again in the hatchback.
Is this to collect Tanja from the Coach?
Tabak: Yes.

So the 1:26am search was possible.. But not the other two!!!!!!!!!!

There are things in this case the the Defence clearly did not pick up on (IMO)

Does the fact that it was impossible for him to do these searches NOT throw in to question the whole of the searches as being that of Dr Vincent Tabak!!!!!

You cannot ignore that fact!!! You can choose to but.... it will not stop it being a fact...

Dr Vincent Tabak was not at home for 2 of those searches!!!!!!!! So how can they be his???????

When the evidence that has been made available doesn't add up QUESTIONS will be asked...

Again this site is called Miscarriages of Justice....

It does Not state that everyone has a certain criteria to meet to be able to post about something they may believe to be a Miscarriage of Justice!!

The clue is in the TITLE!!!!


http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Edit:...... If the time that Dr Vincent Tabak left Canygne Road was at 1:38am on Saturday the 18th December 2010.. I would be really interested to see the timeline of his return.. Because it must have been a CCTV camera that caught his departure,.... And therefore it would capture his return..

Then the questions would not be posed.... Fair and Open... put all the evidence clearly infront of a Jury and do not Cherry Pick....

And this approach I would apply both to the Prosecution and the defence alike...

Lets just see procedings conducted in a totally Fair and Open manner!!!!!

Double EDIT:....

Another thing he would have to do when he got home before rushing to the "computer"... Is TAKE that infamous coat off!!

Hang it up... maybe take his shoes off...  He is not going to rush to use his Computer again for weather reports!!

More time NOT available to have to do those searches... And would he be so desperate to check the weather yet again after he's just picked his girlfriend up after being so bored being on his own without her....

I Think NOT... He cannot have done those two searches (IMO)

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The court heard that the DNA found on Miss Yeates’s chest was one million times more likely to belong to  the defendant than any other unknown individual.

Not to mention the evidence from his car. His searches his confession....

All that and then he is put under such duress he confesses to a crime he didn't commit.

The only thing I know... Is statements that you make are never backed up with any kind of link that would be a way of verifying what you claim....

[jixy]

What statements do I make that need backing up?

[jixy]

I quoted Sally you ignored that too. Anyway none of the above can dismiss my post. At work now so will not continue the debate.. ps no one asked you to meet any criteria. It was a straight forward question. If you had done so you may have a better understanding but it's easier for you to be rude and patronising!!!

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I quoted Sally you ignored that too. Anyway none of the above can dismiss my post. At work now so will not continue the debate

Link to what you used please... I cannot hazzard a guess as to where and which post any particular information you post has come from.

Oh yes.... And put the information you refer to in a quote... helps to see that is what the person said...

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When I found this site I was extremely excited..... I believe that the likely hood of information that people post on the relevance of a case will be here for all to see...

I would think it would be extremely difficult to explain why whole threads are removed because someone may disagree with what forum posters post..

For the case I am obviously interested in, I am fully aware that whole forums were removed from the Internet and know one knows by whom and for what reason...

And this being about Miscarriages of Justice it would be less likely for that to happen..

The country may think I am incorrect with what I have posted .. But unless people  see other information other than what they read in the papers at the time , how are they able to have an informed opinion...

We know that the media expand on the truth... They sensationalise Headlines.... CJ is proof of that!!!

So in turn.. I believe they did the same with Dr Vincent Tabak...

The Porn revelation was never proven.. It was given to the media to sensationalise the conviction of Dr Vincent Tabak....

And of course the media ran with it!!!!

You can say anything you like about a person who is in prison... It doesn't mean that it is true.. At the point of their incarcaration they have no voice in which to counter act any claims that are made about themselves whether true or fabricated.....

And as long as I see what I believe to be an unfair trial and treatment of Dr Vincent Tabak, I will continue to look at the information that I can obtain...

I'm sure Stefan Kizco wished the Internet was around when he was convicted!!!

I'm positive his mother would have appreciated the help that people may have taken an interest in her son!!!

Maybe he wouldn't have spent 18 years in Prison for a Crime Everyone knows was IMPOSSIBLE for him to commit, The Police Knew it wasn't him.......

They knew it was IMPOSSIBLE to be him... But that didn't stop them from gaining a false confession and putting him away to serve 18 years of his life in Prison for a crime HE DID NOT Commit!!!!

[mrswah]

Phew!!!

I have probably said most of what I think, so I am not going to repeat myself. Waste of everybody's time.

Jixy, have you ever read all the case notes from a trial?  I can quite believe that the general public don't hear everything, which is why I cannot be absolutely sure that VT (or anyone else, for that matter) is innocent.

Jixy, why do you think all that fire equipment was needed to recover the body of one person?  You have never answered that question. I put up the FOI document some time ago, and only one poster has ever suggested an explanation.

Why do you think there was no forensic evidence in either Joanna's flat, or in VT's??  If a murder had taken place in either flat, it would be crawling with DNA and fingerprints.  The prosecution would then have had good evidence that VT murdered Joanna, and would not have had to rely on enhanced DNA and a minute drop of blood.

I expect you will tell me to mind my own business (and that is fair enough), but I'm interested to know why you are so interested in this thread, Jixy.  You don't believe VT is a victim of a miscarriage of justice, and you have, in the past, suggested that I (and Nine) might concentrate on cases where there really is some doubt.  However, you have never said which ones (you never know, I might be interested in what you say).  You have not begun a thread on any particular person.  Most of your posts have been to this thread, yet you believe VT is guilty. 

Why are you so interested in a couple of women's doubts about Vincent Tabak's guilt, when you are sure he is guilty?

[jixy]

Nne at 7.46 you asked me to post quotes from what I am writing. Ok you replied but I still don't have any actual answer!

what would you like to me to quote? not sure how we can get confused as its normally just 2 people talking.

Mrswah yes I have read paperwork from a Crown Court murder case in fact I have read 2!

Why I post on here, well no one else replies do they? Maybe because they all agree he is guilty too! no one has jumped on any post however lengthy that has been posted in agreement with his innocence.  I read as I do with all the posts on the forum.

Re Maddy etc I totally admire the people on here and their dedication to the subject but I know nothing about it but still hope to learn and post. I have in fact started my own posts but not directly on a miscarriage of justice. I would need permission to do that and I am not sure with some of the things on here, the lack of respect etc that is a good plan of action

As for Tabak, I think quite a large amount of what has been posted is verging on the ridiculous if I am totally honest. I await something that would change my mind which I have every right to do. It hasn't happened and I cant see it any time soon!

One thing I have noticed is that as I don't agree with Nine and his many posts, I never actually get a straight answer just more questions!

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I will keep saying... if it was impossible for Dr Vincent Tabak to make TWO searches which were:

On 18 Dec 2010, Tabak searched at
1.26 am- ‘BBC news’ and ‘weather forecast’
1.46 am- ‘weather forecast’
1.47 am- ‘BBC Bristol news’

Because he left his home at: To Pick up Tanja and go for a burger also getting lost and having to ring for directions..

 

Defence Counsel: You were on the Internet later. Why did you do that? Constant contact
with Tanja by phone. At I.38 am, 18 December, you were leaving again in the hatchback.
Is this to collect Tanja from the Coach?
Tabak: Yes.

The Fact that he couldn't be avaiable to make these searches should bring into question, the whole of the searches..

Jixy.. You say that I do not reply to your questions... Maybe not always Directly ..But I have many times answered the questions that you have posed...

And on saying that you have never said anything about why a Dutchman would only use one word of Dutch between the 17th Dec 2010 and the 20th January 2011..

I know that this is Impossible...... 

Spending time with my Dutch Relatives over the christmas Period was Proof enough... i was going to try and keep a tally but.. I couldn't keep up...

My 5 year old nephew was even trying to teach his English cousins Dutch... And my Brother in laws phone was all in Dutch...

They conversed in Dutch so much it became the Norm and No one battered an eye lid.. It was quite fasinating...

But the point I have been trying to convey is the Dutch don't particularly use English Terms per say... And the Dutch will converse with other Dutch people in Dutch..

As he was going to Holland,, I'm sure there would be some Dutch Texts sent!!!

And if the porn was such a secret or even existed.. He certainly would have searched in Dutch as to keep peoples prying eyes away from his searches..


EDIT:.....  I would like to apologise if people think I have offended them... It is not my intension... I know my style of writing is not to everyones taste....  And I may come across as being uncaring..

I'm quite passionate about this case, and was really pleased when I found that there where other people who had doubts about Dr Vincent Tabak's conviction..

If the evidence was really strong and witness's had appeared in court maybe I would have thought differently..

I cannot believe that Cj Or Tanja Morson did not make an appearance in the trial of Dr Vincent Tabak and I'm sure many people were suprised by the fact that they did not appear...

Both of them could have added to the Trial for obvious reasons....

Jixy if I have upset or offended you personally, then I am sorry for that... Sometimes I do get the impresssion that you may agree with something that I have said... But you have made yourself perfectly clear that you believe that Dr Vincent Tabak is guilty...

I am appreciative for this site...  It gives plenty of people a platform to bring to the attention of the public possible miscarriages of Justice... And proving such cases is hard no matter which case it maybe..

As people say... Dr Vincent Tabak is guilty.... And I'm either stupid or deluded to think differently to the majority of the country.. but thats fine...

A confession is ok.... only if it is backed with concrete facts... And The Prosecution do not play dirty tricks by not divuldging information a Defence team has not got the time resources or money to investigate..

I think there are a lot of inequalities in our justice system.. And there should be a counter balance..
You have a Police service And Prosecution Service with the money and resources in which to persue a conviction.. And on the other hand a Defendant that has to pray that with the little resourses at hand for them that a jury will believe what they are saying....

Maybe I should employ a different approach to what I'm trying to convey...  But I wouldn't think it would make a difference to anyone who is of the opinion that what ever I say is completely wrong..

I may be completely wrong in my belief that Dr Vincent Tabak is Innocent... But I can't help all those niggles that keeps me questioning what happened...

And for a struggling Police force at the time.. The emergence of the Dutchman just seemed a little too convienant (IMO)