Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates

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If you lose your appeal
Your original sentence or conviction won’t change but you might have to:

restart your sentence from the beginning
pay the court costs

Maybe this is a reason Dr Vincent Tabak hasn't appealed amongst others...!!!!

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-against-sentence-conviction/crown-court-verdict

You must apply within 28 days of either:

the date you were convicted (even if you were sentenced at a later date) if you’re appealing against your conviction
the date you were sentenced if you’re appealing against your sentence

So the time ran out... what can he do now?????

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If The Defence Council didn't get their own DNA tests done, is that "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" ???

Does anyone know what tests the Defence Council did on the DNA Samples?????

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http://guiltypleaproblem.org/

[mrswah]

He Defence would have advised or told him to take the stand... I think he was very much the type of person who would comply with authority..

Yes,  I agree.  VT had a choice as to whether or not to take the stand, but I would imagine he was advised to by his defence team.  He was probably told that it would "look better " for him. Same with his "no comment" police interview: he said in court that his lawyer had advised him to do that.

He had no experience of the police, or of lawyers, or of court, and he was alone in a foreign country. I would not be surprised  if he did everything he was told, believing that this would produce the best outcome for him.

[mrswah]

If The Defence Council didn't get their own DNA tests done, is that "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" ???

Does anyone know what tests the Defence Council did on the DNA Samples?????

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the DNA samples available were all used up in the "enhancing" process. The results could not be challenged.

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I could be wrong about this, but I believe the DNA samples available were all used up in the "enhancing" process. The results could not be challenged.

Dr Vincent Tabak had nothing going for him did he ??????

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Yes,  I agree.  VT had a choice as to whether or not to take the stand, but I would imagine he was advised to by his defence team.  He was probably told that it would "look better " for him. Same with his "no comment" police interview: he said in court that his lawyer had advised him to do that.

He had no experience of the police, or of lawyers, or of court, and he was alone in a foreign country. I would not be surprised  if he did everything he was told, believing that this would produce the best outcome for him.

Well I would say the Defence knew that the Prosecution would make mince meat of him... He never opposed the prosecutions badgering of their client on the witness stand....

He obviously was put there for a show..  "Go On Dr Vincent Tabak... tell the nice jury what you did"!! (IMO)

Really... hardly a good defence for a Foreign National!!!

Where were the mitigating circumstances!!!!!!!

There was nothing positive put before the Jury in any shape or form for Dr Vincent Tabak!!!!!!

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After finding this article with regards Dr Vincent Tabak, I was interested to read that his mother was an agoraphobic..

Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder and anxiety disorders run within families, ... And with anxiety disorders many other spectrums can be involved.

Ordinarily people just associate agoraphobia, with the inability to go outside or scared of open spaces... But there is more to it than that...

Agoraphobia arises from anxiety and panic and to stop these conditions happening agoraphobic's like to stay where they feel safe. So leaving the home is less likely.


Dr Vincent Tabak's mental health assessment should have been brought to court especially as there is mental health issues within his family...

Why have we never seen anything to do with Dr Vincent Tabak's mental health??

If his mother is agoraphobic, she will not be travelling to this country to visit her son... And this too could be a reason we do not here anything from Dr Vincent Tabak, he may be hoping that if he complys they will send him back to Holland.

If he has some kind of anxiety disorder, it would make sense why he keeps in constant contact with Tanja, And why he wouldn't venture next door for any reason!!!!

Marcel said:The family believes it's in Vincents best interest if we do not make any comments

It says it all doesn't it!!!  They do not know what to do for the best!!!!!!


Edit:.... statistically how many Murders are they that have anxiety and panic disorder?????

I bet there isn't even a statistic for it!!!!

 Most people who have these disorder either take medication or learn to deal with it, by having routines.. And distraction tactics...  Sudden changes do not suit people of this nature..


Maybe the defence should have concentrated more on Dr Vincent Tabaks routine.... Because I bet he did the same thing every day...

And when we hear about his socialising, it's only when he's in the company of Tanja, someone he feels safe with!!!!



His crying on the stand could be a coping mechanisim, with the stress levels being so high!!!!

His apologising, his responsibility could be just wanting it all to stop... because Panic disorder and anxiety suffers who use their own methods to contain it, need the freedom to escape any situation that they are in... And on a witness stand there is no escape!!


Double edit:... Just thought about when the CPS lady refers to Dr Vincent Tabak's decision to visit the big Asda in bedminster as "Frankly weird"...

Well if he doesn't particularly like enclosed spaces that would be a good reason to visit the Asda store late at night when there is more space and less people... Frankly it's weird not understanding or trying to understand why people may or may not do something!!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055167/Vincent-Tabak-Girlfriend-Tanja-Morson-saved-fate-Joanna-Yeates-guardian-angel.html

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People who suffer such disorders are at more risk of harming themselves than others...

They are at a higher risk of suicide.. Maybe thats why he was put in a perspex cage!!!!!

[mrswah]

After finding this article with regards Dr Vincent Tabak, I was interested to read that his mother was an agoraphobic..

Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder and anxiety disorders run within families, ... And with anxiety disorders many other spectrums can be involved.

Ordinarily people just associate agoraphobia, with the inability to go outside or scared of open spaces... But there is more to it than that...

Agoraphobia arises from anxiety and panic and to stop these conditions happening agoraphobic's like to stay where they feel safe. So leaving the home is less likely.


Dr Vincent Tabak's mental health assessment should have been brought to court especially as there is mental health issues within his family...

Why have we never seen anything to do with Dr Vincent Tabak's mental health??

If his mother is agoraphobic, she will not be travelling to this country to visit her son... And this too could be a reason we do not here anything from Dr Vincent Tabak, he may be hoping that if he complys they will send him back to Holland.

If he has some kind of anxiety disorder, it would make sense why he keeps in constant contact with Tanja, And why he wouldn't venture next door for any reason!!!!

It says it all doesn't it!!!  They do not know what to do for the best!!!!!!


Edit:.... statistically how many Murders are they that have anxiety and panic disorder?????

I bet there isn't even a statistic for it!!!!

 Most people who have these disorder either take medication or learn to deal with it, by having routines.. And distraction tactics...  Sudden changes do not suit people of this nature..


Maybe the defence should have concentrated more on Dr Vincent Tabaks routine.... Because I bet he did the same thing every day...

And when we hear about his socialising, it's only when he's in the company of Tanja, someone he feels safe with!!!!



His crying on the stand could be a coping mechanisim, with the stress levels being so high!!!!

His apologising, his responsibility could be just wanting it all to stop... because Panic disorder and anxiety suffers who use their own methods to contain it, need the freedom to escape any situation that they are in... And on a witness stand there is no escape!!


Double edit:... Just thought about when the CPS lady refers to Dr Vincent Tabak's decision to visit the big Asda in bedminster as "Frankly weird"...

Well if he doesn't particularly like enclosed spaces that would be a good reason to visit the Asda store late at night when there is more space and less people... Frankly it's weird not understanding or trying to understand why people may or may not do something!!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055167/Vincent-Tabak-Girlfriend-Tanja-Morson-saved-fate-Joanna-Yeates-guardian-angel.html

VT's preference for the bigger supermarket is not weird at all, IMO.  It is in keeping with the work he did:  studying the movement of people around buildings and spaces.  I would imagine he was merely interested.

I don't think he had any known psychiatric disorder when he was first arrested and placed in custody.  He admitted to the nurse who examined him in prison that the only medication he used was herbal sleeping tablets, so he was obviously not in receipt of any psychiatric medication from his GP or from a hospital.

I agree that he and his family are (IMO) making as little fuss and noise as possible, in the hope  that he might be allowed  to serve his sentence in Holland, where his mother will be able to visit him.

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VT's preference for the bigger supermarket is not weird at all, IMO.  It is in keeping with the work he did:  studying the movement of people around buildings and spaces.  I would imagine he was merely interested.

I don't think he had any known psychiatric disorder when he was first arrested and placed in custody.  He admitted to the nurse who examined him in prison that the only medication he used was herbal sleeping tablets, so he was obviously not in receipt of any psychiatric medication from his GP or from a hospital.

I agree that he and his family are (IMO) making as little fuss and noise as possible, in the hope  that he might be allowed  to serve his sentence in Holland, where his mother will be able to visit him.

Suffering from Anxiety or Panic disorder does not mean you need to take medication, if learnt behaviours assist you in dealing with such issues...

He would not have necessarily told the nurse that he has this disorder, and we do not know if he would have sort medical attention for it in the past.... Most people keep such mental health issues to themselves as there is a massive taboo with anything mental health related.

Herbal sleeping tablets, always a possibility he didn't trust convention medicine if his mother took it to treat her own problems!!!

http://www.encyclopedia.com/medicine/diseases-and-conditions/pathology/panic-disorder

[John]

Maybe this is a reason Dr Vincent Tabak hasn't appealed amongst others...!!!!

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-against-sentence-conviction/crown-court-verdict


So the time ran out... what can he do now?????

The likelihood of any appeal is severely limited because of his admission to manslaughter.  However, if someone were to come forward and admit to the crime the case would have to be reopened.  I must add that I find that particular scenario highly unlikely.

[John]

If The Defence Council didn't get their own DNA tests done, is that "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" ???

Does anyone know what tests the Defence Council did on the DNA Samples?????

If the defence was being paid out of legal aid no independent tests would have been carried out.

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If the defence was being paid out of legal aid no independent tests would have been carried out.

So how is that fair??????? he did get legal aid!!!

[John]

So how is that fair??????? he did get legal aid!!!

As I found out from bitter experience, legal aid gets you a lawyer and sometimes a barrister but little else.  The prosecution however can spend virtually limitless sums on investigations, on witnesses and on experts.  No it isn't fair but that is the system we in the UK are stuck with.

I'm afraid that in the world of justice, money does talk!