Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates

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I know what springs to mind when I think about people making confessions that are not backed up by 'STRONG EVIDENCE'....

It reminds me of centuries ago... when someone was said to be a witch... and they were tided to a stool/chair and thrown in the water to see if they would drown...

If they floated and survived, that was proof enough of them being demonic..
But if they drown, they were INNOCENT!!!!

Think the so called Evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak wasn't strong enough..!!

Where was the Lifebuoy from the Defence???

[mrswah]

It occurs to me, going back to the posts about Tanja and her dad, (and incidentally, TM only went abroad while the trial was going on---she is still living and working in England), that Tanja had been in a relationship with VT for about a year and a half, her parents had met him on at least a few occasions, and yet none of the family thought there was anything odd about him.

At least, we have not heard that they did, and Tanja's mum referred to him as "our lovely Vincent" when he was first arrested.

I accept that "love is blind" and Tanja might have overlooked "warning signs", but I find it difficult to believe that her parents, her brother and her friends would all have done so.  My parents found fault with most of my boyfriends , and my friends were quick to warn me if somebody seemed dodgy!!!

Which suggests, to me,  that there wasn't anything odd about VT.

[Leonora]

Mr Jefferies would not tell me anything!!

If he suspcted that VT was innocent, he would never say so, not unless someone else was in the frame, and the evidence seemed compelling.  CJ would be afraid that people might look to him again, if they thought there were any doubts re VT.

I have to add that if he really did see Jo leaving the premises with two other people , that would seem very feasible, IMO.  However, we don't know whom he saw, and he may not know whom he saw either. Even if he recognised Jo, it is doubtful that he would know the other two people.

Mr Jefferies's 2nd witness statement is THE HOLY GRAIL of this case. You can forget about everything else.

You don't know WHAT or WHOM Mr Jefferies saw, nor do you know when he saw them.  But you do KNOW that his 2nd witness statement changed the course of Operation Braid immediately. None of your speculations could account for the huge effect that this single and still unpublished statement had.

What do you mean, "if he suspected VT is innocent"? Do you really think they appoint stupid people to run the English dept at Clifton College? Mr. Jefferies knows very well what is in his 2nd witness statement, and he knows very well that its publication would be a bomb under VT's conviction.

[mrswah]

Two men have gone to prison to preserve its secret.

Two men??????

I cannot claim to be as optimistic as you are that this second witness statement contains anything so vitally crucial-----although, as I always say, I could be wrong.  Not much use telling me to read your lips either, since I can't see you!!!

CJ did say, in one of his interviews, that he was somewhat relieved when VT was charged and convicted, otherwise there would always have been a little bit of suspicion around him, or something to that effect.  However, I still find it hard to believe that he would deliberately sit on information that would free VT. Also, if he had such vital imformation, surely he would have remembered to give it to the police first time around??

[mrswah]

I know what springs to mind when I think about people making confessions that are not backed up by 'STRONG EVIDENCE'....

It reminds me of centuries ago... when someone was said to be a witch... and they were tided to a stool/chair and thrown in the water to see if they would drown...

If they floated and survived, that was proof enough of them being demonic..
But if they drown, they were INNOCENT!!!!

Think the so called Evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak wasn't strong enough..!!

Where was the Lifebuoy from the Defence???

A problem with confessions, so called confessions, and guilty pleas-------------if somebody makes one, everybody believes it, without looking for evidence to back it up.  In fact, they often stop looking for evidence, and don't have a trial at all.

Nobody in their right mind would plead guilty to something they hadn't done. The problem is, after days of interrogation, solitary confinement, suicide watch, perhaps tranquillisers, and removal from one's home and family, who knows if some of  these people are really in their right mind any more.

[John]

Posters are again reminded not to post unsupported allegations.

[PaultheRed]

It is clear that if you are not in the VT is innocent camp you are belittled, abuseed and called names, your opinions , thoughts and ideas are cast a side as crass, idiotic and lies when in fact virtually everything posted by the VT is innocent side is made up, fabricated and pathetic lies, conjecture & hearsay , if this wasn't such a sad and true case it would make a brilliant story for an adult Jackonary as it is that far fetch the claims made it is a government, police and authority cover up ....lets not forgot that the only person who killed anyone was VT and there is little to no sympathy, respect or compassion shown to the victim of this heinous crime and act .

[John]

It is clear that if you are not in the VT is innocent camp you are belittled, abuseed and called names, your opinions , thoughts and ideas are cast a side as crass, idiotic and lies when in fact virtually everything posted by the VT is innocent side is made up, fabricated and pathetic lies, conjecture & hearsay , if this wasn't such a sad and true case it would make a brilliant story for an adult Jackonary as it is that far fetch the claims made it is a government, police and authority cover up ....lets not forgot that the only person who killed anyone was VT and there is little to no sympathy, respect or compassion shown to the victim of this heinous crime and act .

It is unfortunately a well known phenomena seen across many alleged miscarriage of justice threads, when all else fails blame and ridicule everyone else associated with the case.  The classic being the Jeremy Bamber forums where just about everyone else is to blame for his murderous rampage.

[PaultheRed]

You have not been paying attention. Read my lips mrswah. Mr Jefferies's 2nd witness statement is THE HOLY GRAIL of this case. You can forget about everything else. Two men have gone to prison to preserve its secret. Two officers flew to Schiphol to preserve its secret. Thirty journalists doorstepped its author, not realising that they were hapless tools in the hands of those who were determined to preserve its secret.

You don't know WHAT or WHOM Mr Jefferies saw, nor do you know when he saw them.  But you do KNOW that his 2nd witness statement changed the course of Operation Braid immediately. None of your speculations could account for the huge effect that this single and still unpublished statement had.

What do you mean, "if he suspected VT is innocent"? Do you really think they appoint stupid people to run the English dept at Clifton College? Mr. Jefferies knows very well what is in his 2nd witness statement, and he knows very well that its publication would be a bomb under VT's conviction.

Nobody knows what was said or not said in that 2nd interview /statement to make such assumptions and guess is nothing more than scaremongering and fabrication something you seem very good at doing and when people don't agree you attack them , belittle , insult and denounce those who don't see eye to eye with you and you regularly flaunt the rules  and over step the line of decency, compassion and understanding towards the victim , her family and the truth .

[John]

I have a suggestion, why don't those who claim Tabak is innocent write to him or e-mail him and ask him to explain why he doesn't contest the juries decision?

They are most welcome to post his reply.

[mrswah]

I have a suggestion, why don't those who claim Tabak is innocent write to him or e-mail him and ask him to explain why he doesn't contest the juries decision?

They are most welcome to post his reply.

I have tried, John. I have to get VT's permission and his prison number in order to write to him.  I first applied  to the "Prisoner Location Service" in mid November, have sent two reminders (it is supposed to take six weeks), and still have not received an answer.

[mrswah]

Nobody knows what was said or not said in that 2nd interview /statement to make such assumptions and guess is nothing more than scaremongering and fabrication something you seem very good at doing and when people don't agree you attack them , belittle , insult and denounce those who don't see eye to eye with you and you regularly flaunt the rules  and over step the line of decency, compassion and understanding towards the victim , her family and the truth .

Paul, if you read Leonora's post properly, you will see that it was directed at me, not at you.

The "Vincent Is Innocent" camp do disagree with each other sometimes, but I can cope with that!

I do respect Joanna's family, actually, and I feel very, very sorry for them.  However, I also believe the wrong man is in prison, and I don't believe that is what they would want. It is easy to say that anyone who believes a convicted murderer is innocent has no respect for the family or the victim, but if that were to be true, no miscarriages of justice would ever be revealed.  I do  acknowledge that I could be wrong, which is why I would like to be able to have some contact with VT.  If I were to speak to him, and if I came to the conclusion that he was guilty, then so be it.

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I was looking at the video from inside Joanna Yeates flat, and remember seeing marks on the wall...

It reminded me of crime scene's when they spray something on the wall to show up blood stains...

what do these stains look like to people??


I Think it is down by the table..  The table has always looked in an odd place... not a lot of room for it...

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oopsie

[mrswah]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8847771/Vincent-Tabak-carried-on-as-if-nothing-happened-after-murder-of-Joanna-Yeates.html

With reference to the newspaper report quoted above, yes, some killers do carry on afterwards as if nothing had happened, particularly serial killers.

However, it seems that VT had no previous" form," and had never even been inside a police station. We are supposed to believe that he committed his first murder, and in the following weeks, nobody noticed anything strange about his behaviour. According to the Telegraph, this suggests that he is a particularly callous and sick individual. However, there could be another explanation------that he didn't do it!