Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates

[[...]]

Thought I had remembered that the Judge in the trial had originally said he wanted a unanimous verdict:

Mr Justice Field had previously asked for a unanimous verdict, but as the deliberations continue for a third day he has said he will accept a decision supported by 10 of the 12 jurors.

Then he says something really weird:..

'Please make due allowance for the stress the defendant is under, facing this very serious charge and bear in mind this defendant gave his evidence in English, which is not his first language."

What does that even mean???????? EH!!!!!




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053703/Joanna-Yeates-trial-Judge-tells-jury-accept-majority-verdict.html#ixzz4Zv8sujID

[Leonora]

I was looking at the video from inside Joanna Yeates flat, and remember seeing marks on the wall...

It reminded me of crime scene's when they spray something on the wall to show up blood stains...

what do these stains look like to people??

I Think it is down by the table..  The table has always looked in an odd place... not a lot of room for it...

I think the marks on the wall look like the results of applying dangerous chemicals intended to remove all possible forensic traces that could be used to reveal the presence of persons in the flat who were not supposed to be there. Obviously, if evidence of Vincent Tabak had been found, they would have been testified in court. Obviously, if he had been in the flat and done anything at all there, even if it was only turning off the TV, there would have been traces of him. But there weren't. You may be sure that there were traces of other people besides the two known occupants.

[Leonora]

With reference to the newspaper report quoted above, yes, some killers do carry on afterwards as if nothing had happened, particularly serial killers.

However, it seems that VT had no previous" form," and had never even been inside a police station. We are supposed to believe that he committed his first murder, and in the following weeks, nobody noticed anything strange about his behaviour. According to the Telegraph, this suggests that he is a particularly callous and sick individual. However, there could be another explanation------that he didn't do it!

So you have experience that some serial killers carry on as if nothing had happened do you? The mind boggles at the dangerous life you must have been leading.

Why do you think no TV company has made a drama-documentary called "The Lost Honour of Vincent Tabak"? Don't you agree that there is something weird about the priorities of the media? After all, there is nothing so strange about a retired schoolmaster who is wrongly arrested being awarded damages for his wrongful character assassination by the sensation-hungry news media. Anyone would have done what the landlord did.

In contrast, an account of how a young, newly engaged engineer of irreproachible character, suddenly became so crazy and detached that, with no motive, he just popped next door and strangled his neighbour after 10 minutes' acquaintance is absolutely sensational and inexplicable. Why do you think TV producers aren't falling over themselves to interview all the people in the UK and Holland who knew him to find out the truth? What does it tell you about the media's interest in the truth?

[Leonora]

Thought I had remembered that the Judge in the trial had originally said he wanted a unanimous verdict:

Then he says something really weird:..

What does that even mean???????? EH!!!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053703/Joanna-Yeates-trial-Judge-tells-jury-accept-majority-verdict.html#ixzz4Zv8sujID

The jury submitted a piece of paper to the judge towards the end of their deliberations. Soon after that he informed them that he would accept a 10-2 majority verdict. I deduce that this means that up to five members of the jury refused to accept that it was murder, but they all wanted to get home for the weekend, so they agreed to tell the judge that their verdict was 10-2.

What is your problem with the judge pointing out the obvious fact that English was not VT's first language? It seems to have been almost the first sensible thing the judge said throughout the entire trial. VT's own defence counsel should have reminded the court of it when counsel for the prosecution was cross-examining the defendant so aggressively.

[jixy]

His English was fine enough to be head hunted for his job! The Lost Honour of Vincent Tabak...you make it sound like he is some fallen Hollywood Super Star who took the wrong path!

[[...]]

His English was fine enough to be head hunted for his job! The Lost Honour of Vincent Tabak...you make it sound like he is some fallen Hollywood Super Star who took the wrong path!

Jixy morning, It sounds like the Judge is making allowances, almost as if he'e leaning towards not guilty...

Please make due allowance for the stress the defendant is under, facing this very serious charge and bear in mind this defendant gave his evidence in English, which is not his first language."

And I agree with Leonora...... Why DIDN'T his defence object, when they  saw him being badgered as his native tongue is Dutch...

Which brings me too the fact he had sent emails in the new year to his Dutch colleges from the university... if the email where to be in the 1300 page document.....

Where's the Dutch!!!!!!

[jixy]

Good morning Nine

Where is it documented that he struggled with English? He could have had assistance if he struggled with any part of the trial and understanding proceedings, he didn't.

Not sure the Judge was leaning towards not guilty

As for behaviour after a crime, there is no rule book. Some people commit murder and other horrific crimes while maintaining a normal family life. We don't have to know these people Leonora, its only documented in the media just like all the points raised in the case of Tabak

No one knows him, no one knows the serial killers either!

[[...]]

Good morning Nine

Where is it documented that he struggled with English? He could have had assistance if he struggled with any part of the trial and understanding proceedings, he didn't.

Not sure the Judge was leaning towards not guilty

As for behaviour after a crime, there is no rule book. Some people commit murder and other horrific crimes while maintaining a normal family life. We don't have to know these people Leonora, its only documented in the media just like all the points raised in the case of Tabak

No one knows him, no one knows the serial killers either!

It's documented that he had an interpreter initially and at trial there was an interpreter for  the medical terminology...

Maybe they should have just given him an interpreter "full stop" who he could choose to use at any point in the trial....   i'm sure he wouldn't understand all the legal jargon!!!

As for the judge... what an extremely peculiar statement to make it's almost like he's making apologies for Dr Vincent Tabak....

Why didn't the judge stop the badgering of the witness, when he clearly admits  the stress he was under, the language being not of his own....

'Please make due allowance for the stress the defendant is under, facing this very serious charge and bear in mind this defendant gave his evidence in English, which is not his first language."

What is making due allowances????? 

For the stress the defendant is under ?????

Facing this very serious charge ?????

And bear in mind the his evidence was in english..... ???

Why would he make such comments?   Is this normal????

Well his behaviour after the crime was what they wanted to screw him to the wall for!!!!  Damned if he does damned if he doesn't...

Agreed Jixy no one know him apart from his family, who where never called to testify to his good character...

I still don't believe he did it,..... If it was him....

Then why all the secrecy??

[[...]]

CCTV......


They are not right... The Waitrose CCTV.. Jumps..... At 1:24 she's at the edge of the Aisle... at 1:24 she's at the end of the Fridge display leaving???

These video's have been interfered with (IMO)... Waitrose video is very jerky as well as the Tesco one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dX6jD5QiIw

The tesco Video is in slow mo.... yet the timer runs normally..... 

If you go back to look at the Waitrose video... Joanna Yeates manages walk down the street then she enters the store at around 22 seconds, walk around the display , up the Aisle looks for what she wants and doesn't find it.... then leaves the store in 1min 38 seconds...

Yet 58 secs of Tesco's she spends an awful long time not doing very much.... The Tesco video should be more than 58 seconds.... when does she go into her bag to get her MONEY!!!!!

The Tesco video has also been interfered with (IMO)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeW_Jwn43g0

The Bargain Booze Video she is walking at a more natural pace....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU4z1M0LzrQ

It's 18 seconds long.... Why does a little store like Bargain Booze have CCTV That is better than Tesco or Waitrose????

Not likely.... yet the two big stores CCTV is really bad and jerky....... WHY!!!!



[attachment deleted by admin]

[mrswah]

Morning, Jixy, Leonora, Nine

It has never occurred to me that I am being CCTV'd every time I go to Tesco !  Who is ever going to believe that all the apple pies, beer, crisps and cake that I buy are for the hubby?  And , oh dear, I buy the incriminating stuff too: bleach, rubber gloves, dettol-------------------oh well !

Leonora, how do we know that Gunter knew the content of CJ's second witness statement?

Jixy, you are right: we don't know any of these people, and we rely on what we read in the media, (which is not always accurate, and which is often biased).  We just have to do the best we can with the info we have, and I accept that much of what I believe may not be the truth.  It seems to be impossible to find out any new information about this particular case, and, yes, I wonder why.

If VT did kill Jo, he is a most unusual murderer in that nobody seemed to find anything weird about him, and that he did, indeed , carry on as normal after what was , presumably, his first murder. I would have expected someone in that position to be scared out of his wits, and behaving so peculiarly that his family and friends would have noticed  something was up straight away.

[mrswah]

So you have experience that some serial killers carry on as if nothing had happened do you? The mind boggles at the dangerous life you must have been leading.

Why do you think no TV company has made a drama-documentary called "The Lost Honour of Vincent Tabak"? Don't you agree that there is something weird about the priorities of the media? After all, there is nothing so strange about a retired schoolmaster who is wrongly arrested being awarded damages for his wrongful character assassination by the sensation-hungry news media. Anyone would have done what the landlord did.

In contrast, an account of how a young, newly engaged engineer of irreproachible character, suddenly became so crazy and detached that, with no motive, he just popped next door and strangled his neighbour after 10 minutes' acquaintance is absolutely sensational and inexplicable. Why do you think TV producers aren't falling over themselves to interview all the people in the UK and Holland who knew him to find out the truth? What does it tell you about the media's interest in the truth?

Well, people who produce newspapers want to sell newspapers!  We know they don't always print the truth:  remember Chris Jefferies?  Remember the original  mugshot of "Evil Myra" still on front pages of newspapers at a time when she had probably long ceased to be evil or dangerous and was a sick, pathetic, institutionalised fifty-something year old? The owners of the tabloids must have been the only people who were sad when she died!!!

Saying that, there are also media reports and documentaries that do tell the truth, I am sure.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have no experience of serial killers----I am afraid I am relying on the media again, and also on my psychology training:  surely, if someone has committed a string of murders, and his/her nearest and dearest has not noticed anything odd , then it's reasonable to assume that the murderer is carrying on life as normal between crimes???  That is why they are so difficult to catch.

[mrswah]

Where is it documented that he struggled with English? He could have had assistance if he struggled with any part of the trial and understanding proceedings, he didn't.

I don't think VT had any problems with English at all, apart from, perhaps, legal jargon.  As far as I remember, he was offered the services of an interpreter and he declined. 

[[...]]

Well, people who produce newspapers want to sell newspapers!  We know they don't always print the truth:  remember Chris Jefferies?  Remember the original  mugshot of "Evil Myra" still on front pages of newspapers at a time when she had probably long ceased to be evil or dangerous and was a sick, pathetic, institutionalised fifty-something year old? The owners of the tabloids must have been the only people who were sad when she died!!!

Which is why not being able to find anything out about Dr Vincent Tabak is strange.... It was a massive high profiled case.. ...

And...... Silence... WHY????

Why hasn't the media been in contact to find out what he's up to in prison... Is he a model prisoner?? for instance, has he had any altercations??....

Nobody wants to touch him with a barge pole????? WHY?????? 

[mrswah]

Which is why not being able to find anything out about Dr Vincent Tabak is strange.... It was a massive high profiled case.. ...

And...... Silence... WHY????

Why hasn't the media been in contact to find out what he's up to in prison... Is he a model prisoner?? for instance, has he had any altercations??....

Nobody wants to touch him with a barge pole????? WHY??????

I ask myself the same question!

[jixy]

I don't think VT had any problems with English at all, apart from, perhaps, legal jargon.  As far as I remember, he was offered the services of an interpreter and he declined.

I agree mrswah. I don't think he had any problems at all with English and did in fact decline the services of an interpreter

He is a very intelligent man and I don't think he would have refused one if needed

ANYONE facing a murder trial would face the same as he did at trial. Not to do with misunderstanding etc its a strange environment to say the least