Claims by family that the front door was open are subsequently quietly dropped.

[stephen25000]

Third party information again ! 

Anne there are so many witnesses to Matt going and checking, that what is in that newspaper is clearly nonsense.  Even the waiters were on about how they kept vanishing.   At the time they knew not where, but afterwards realised they were checking the children

Personally I am affronted that such attacks could, and would, be made at a group of consciencious people who did everything by the book.  They bettered Internationally accepted methods of checking on sleeping children.

What ever is wrong with you guys to keep needlessly putting the boot in?

These conscientious people as you put them, placed socializing first, children second.

Secondly and for the umpteenth time, what INDEPENDENT verification is there, of the children being checked regularly every night ?

[sadie]

These conscientious people as you put them, placed socializing first, children second.

Secondly and for the umpteenth time, what INDEPENDENT verification is there, of the children being checked regularly every night ?

Try the waiters statements, Stephen

If the PJ accepted them, why cant you ?


In actual fact, except by the blinkered, the tapas 7 statements would be accepted on their own.


Oh, btw, there is an independant witness.   JEZ

The Mcccanns left for the restaurant at 8.30/8.35.  Half an hour later Gerry checked the children, went to the loo ... and bumped into Jez at about 9.10 wnen he was leaving.

So the first checking happened half an hour after leaving for the restaurant .... Agreed?



And almost certainly Madeleine was gone by 9.15 / 9.20pm

The party used International checking interval standards ... and bettered them both in

1.  Frequency and
2.  Visual checks.  They usually they went into the appartments for a visual check.

[stephen25000]

Try the waiters statements, Stephen

If the PJ accepted them, why cant you ?


In actual fact, except by the blinkered, the tapas 7 statements would be accepted on their own.


Oh, btw, there is an independant witness.   JEZ

The Mcccanns left for the restaurant at 8.30/8.35.  Half an hour later Gerry checked the children, went to the loo ... and bumped into Jez at about 9.10 wnen he was leaving.

So the first checking happened half an hour after leaving for the restaurant .... Agreed?



And almost certainly Madeleine was gone by 9.15 / 9.20pm

The party used International checking interval standards ... and bettered them both in

1.  Frequency and
2.  Visual checks.  They usually they went into the appartments for a visual check.

A member of the group is not an independent witness.

You do not know when Madeleine went.

That is speculation.

[sadie]

Jez is NOT a member of the group.

FGS, Stephen didn't you know that?

[stephen25000]

Jez is NOT a member of the group.

FGS, Stephen didn't you know that?

I stand corrected on that.

Did he see gm leave the apartment ?

How do we know Madeleine was in the apartment at this time ?

[Lace]

I stand corrected on that.

Did he see gm leave the apartment ?

How do we know Madeleine was in the apartment at this time ?

Jez said that Gerry was walking when he saw him and presumed he had been to check on the children.

Gerry had a short conversation with Jez where he chatted about the children.   I would think that Gerry would have been in a very agitated mood if he had just hidden Madeleine's body.   

[faithlilly]

Try the waiters statements, Stephen

If the PJ accepted them, why cant you ?


In actual fact, except by the blinkered, the tapas 7 statements would be accepted on their own.


Oh, btw, there is an independant witness.   JEZ

The Mcccanns left for the restaurant at 8.30/8.35.  Half an hour later Gerry checked the children, went to the loo ... and bumped into Jez at about 9.10 wnen he was leaving.

So the first checking happened half an hour after leaving for the restaurant .... Agreed?



And almost certainly Madeleine was gone by 9.15 / 9.20pm

The party used International checking interval standards ... and bettered them both in

1.  Frequency and
2.  Visual checks.  They usually they went into the appartments for a visual check.

Do you have a link to those standards sadie ?

[AnneGuedes]

Faithlilly !

[sadie]

Do you have a link to those standards sadie ?

Since Madeleine vanished, few hotels take the risk anymore.  I believe that Mark warner holidays used to do it at many resorts, but it seems that has stopped.  There is little to find on the internet now.  Every one has learned their lesson from what happened to Madeleine.  What was considered fine before Madeleine was taken is taboo now, it seems.


However below are examples / discussions of baby listening services.  and I know which I would prefer, in the  ** Tapas 9 v regular baby listening services. **

The way that the Tapas friends did their checking is vastly better than any baby listening services discussed here

http://www.butlins-memories.com/forums/showthread.php?7232-Baby-Crying-In-Chalet
How Butlins did it.... Redcoats (often youngsters) riding past on bicycles and listening as they went past

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/728265-baby-listening-in-hotels/AllOnOnePage
DrNortherner Thu 26-Mar-09 11:34:48
Having worked in hotels for many many years I have never, and would never use a baby listening service. NEVER.

I have been that receptionist responsible for baby listening, whilst checking in 180 guests, answering a switchbord, taking messages, dealing with complaints, posting bar and restaurant charges, balancing the books, cashing up at the end of shift, etc etc....plus I know just how many staff have access to your bedroom, you can not lock teh door from teh inside so a toddler can let themselves out easily. And room break ins are rife in hotels.



So says an expert; someone at the cutting edge of baby listening services.  And pre Madeleine, thousands of families used these services each year.  They were considered OK

[faithlilly]

Since Madeleine vanished, few hotels take the risk anymore.  I believe that Mark warner holidays used to do it at many resorts, but it seems that has stopped.  There is little to find on the internet now.  Every one has learned their lesson from what happened to Madeleine.  What was considered fine before Madeleine was taken is taboo now, it seems.


However below are examples / discussions of baby listening services.  and I know which I would prefer, in the  ** Tapas 9 v regular baby listening services. **

The way that the Tapas friends did their checking is vastly better than any baby listening services discussed here

http://www.butlins-memories.com/forums/showthread.php?7232-Baby-Crying-In-Chalet
How Butlins did it.... Redcoats (often youngsters) riding past on bicycles and listening as they went past

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/728265-baby-listening-in-hotels/AllOnOnePage
DrNortherner Thu 26-Mar-09 11:34:48
Having worked in hotels for many many years I have never, and would never use a baby listening service. NEVER.

I have been that receptionist responsible for baby listening, whilst checking in 180 guests, answering a switchbord, taking messages, dealing with complaints, posting bar and restaurant charges, balancing the books, cashing up at the end of shift, etc etc....plus I know just how many staff have access to your bedroom, you can not lock teh door from teh inside so a toddler can let themselves out easily. And room break ins are rife in hotels.



So says an expert; someone at the cutting edge of baby listening services.  And pre Madeleine, thousands of families used these services each year.  They were considered OK

So there is no such thing as International checking interval standards, is there sadie ? Rather dishonest of you to suggest there was then, wasn't it ?

Further your links deal with accepted practice Butlins, a gated complex and a hotel, both locations in no way similar to the OC.

The receptionist in your second link specifically mentions not being able to lock the room ( notice she is talking about a hotel ) door and how dangerous that is. How much more dangerous for a child  to leave the door open of an apartment with access to a public road ?

[sadie]

So there is no such thing as International checking interval standards, is there sadie ? Rather dishonest of you to suggest there was then, wasn't it ?

Further your links deal with accepted practice Butlins, a gated complex and a hotel, both locations in no way similar to the OC.

The receptionist in your second link specifically mentions not being able to lock the room ( notice she is talking about a hotel ) door and how dangerous that is. How much more dangerous for a child  to leave the door open of an apartment with access to a public road ?

As  suspect you know from Annes post, almost NO hotels etc. offer this service since May 2007, so nothing about it on the internet. 

Faithlilly !

But it was common before then, as I am sure readers will be aware.  Many will have used cild listening services, but since Madeleine, most do not like to admit it.  I rather fancy that pre Madeleine,  Mark Warner hotels used to use it, all over the world.  And that it is mentioned in one of the Statements, but I aint spending days wading thru them again

As far as i am aware there were no "official" standards, as such, but common methods were used.  No point in denying it.  Everyone who spent time in hotels and big apartment complexes know about it.   

The Mccann and Tapas groups checking was superior to any that I know of.    Even the PJ seem to acknowledge that.


Can you give me an example of a baby listening service that was better than the one they used?

[stephen25000]

As  suspect you know from Annes post, almost NO hotels etc. offer this service since May 2007, so nothing about it on the internet. 

But it was common before then, as I am sure readers will be aware.  Many will have used cild listening services, but since Madeleine, most do not like to admit it.  I rather fancy that pre Madeleine,  Mark Warner hotels used to use it, all over the world.  And that it is mentioned in one of the Statements, but I aint spending days wading thru them again

As far as i am aware there were no "official" standards, as such, but common methods were used.  No point in denying it.  Everyone who spent time in hotels and big apartment complexes know about it.   

The Mccann and Tapas groups checking was superior to any that I know of.    Even the PJ seem to acknowledge that.


Can you give me an example of a baby listening service that was better than the one they used?

Employing a babysitter, easily available, in a LOCKED APARTMENT.

[faithlilly]

As  suspect you know from Annes post, almost NO hotels etc. offer this service since May 2007, so nothing about it on the internet. 

But it was common before then, as I am sure readers will be aware.  Many will have used cild listening services, but since Madeleine, most do not like to admit it.  I rather fancy that pre Madeleine,  Mark Warner hotels used to use it, all over the world.  And that it is mentioned in one of the Statements, but I aint spending days wading thru them again

As far as i am aware there were no "official" standards, as such, but common methods were used.  No point in denying it.  Everyone who spent time in hotels and big apartment complexes know about it.   

The Mccann and Tapas groups checking was superior to any that I know of.    Even the PJ seem to acknowledge that.


Can you give me an example of a baby listening service that was better than the one they used?

As there are, as you now admit, no 'official' standards, why did you suggest that there were ?

[AnneGuedes]

As  suspect you know from Annes post, almost NO hotels etc. offer this service since May 2007, so nothing about it on the internet. 

Which post of mine, please Sadie ?

[sadie]

Which post of mine, please Sadie ?

Post 52, after Faiths post 51.

That immediately made me wonder why you responded like that

  Faithlilly !

... and as I searched the internet for information about baby listening services, I realised that you knew that after Madeleine vanished, all hotels etc stopped giving this service, in case it happened to their clients and they were sued.

OK?