White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4

[Myster]

The opium poppies are a mystery. According to police surgeon Dr Craig shortly after JB was told about the deaths he was found wandering around the yard clutching a bunch of poppies.  JB told Dr Craig the farm had a licence to grow opium poppies for the pharma industry and yet the first UK licence granted by the gov to grow opium poppies in the UK was late 90's/early noughties.  And the licence was with the pharma company not the farmer.

Dr Craig asked Chief Sup Harris if the farm had a licence to grow opium poppies and he didn't know anything about it.  The pair had a look at the field where they were growing.

Of course if you were growing opium poppies on your land for the black market this is a very good reason for not calling the police.

By all accounts NB was a pillar of the community so growing opium poppies for the black market would seem out of character and yet they haven't been explained.

No mystery at all!  Many things are not always revealed with internet searches, as you well know.

[Myster]

Where's the evidence of a letter from JB to BC re the above?

You either believe CAL or you don't... and you obviously don't even though you praised her book to high heaven at Waterstones!

[Myster]

What mischief are you referring to?  There's no evidence whatsoever he was involved in any criminality down under.

What about the two Cartiers in Skippy's hodensack?   Bamber's "No Comments" say it all!

DCI Jones moved on to the Cartier watches brought back from Australia, asking whether they were stolen.
‘Stealing’s the wrong word,’ Jeremy replied.
‘Was there an incident in Australia involving some Cartier watches you want to tell me about?’
‘No comment.’
‘Were you involved in stealing some diamonds in Australia?’
‘Australia or New Zealand? I had some in New Zealand.’
‘Did you steal them?’
‘No comment.’

[steve_trousers]

It all sounds like wishful thinking on your part Steve.

You have no understanding of the tests to know whether or not they will be a waste of time.

How do you think high profile contentious cases are eventually undermined to the extent convictions are quashed if everything can simply be batted away?

You are wrong on the third point.  It was DS Jones who initiated the burning of carpets and sought JB's approval.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1056.0;attach=2206

Oh dear. For your sake I do hope you like the sound of leather on willow Holly.
Like you I have little understanding of the scientific side, but I do understand how appeals work and I guarantee you are wasting your time. It's a fools errand and guaranteed the CCRC will bat your hard work away for 6.

Those cases you are referring to are actual miscarriages of justice, so no comparison there.

[Holly Goodhead]

No mystery at all!  Many things are not always revealed with internet searches, as you well know.

It seems the HO has already confirmed:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/85941/response/218225/attach/html/3/CR20001%20Response.pdf.html

[Holly Goodhead]

You either believe CAL or you don't... and you obviously don't even though you praised her book to high heaven at Waterstones!

I will refer to the book for the source.  I thought JB was off to India with Roly Pargeter in an attempt to 'find himself'!  Sounds like he was planning to spread himself thin!

[Holly Goodhead]

What about the two Cartiers in Skippy's hodensack?   Bamber's "No Comments" say it all!

DCI Jones moved on to the Cartier watches brought back from Australia, asking whether they were stolen.
‘Stealing’s the wrong word,’ Jeremy replied.
‘Was there an incident in Australia involving some Cartier watches you want to tell me about?’
‘No comment.’
‘Were you involved in stealing some diamonds in Australia?’
‘Australia or New Zealand? I had some in New Zealand.’
‘Did you steal them?’
‘No comment.’

Where's the above from?  It's certainly not in the police interviews with DCI Jones that I've read.

All JB did was what most middle class young people did then and do now and that's travel between finishing ed and starting work.  And there's no evidence he was involved in any sort of wrongdoing or even anti-social behaviour eg brawling, getting drunk, behaving inappropriately around women etc. If there was I'm sure the Oz police or some hack would have discovered it by now.

[Holly Goodhead]

Oh dear. For your sake I do hope you like the sound of leather on willow Holly.
Like you I have little understanding of the scientific side, but I do understand how appeals work and I guarantee you are wasting your time. It's a fools errand and guaranteed the CCRC will bat your hard work away for 6.

Those cases you are referring to are actual miscarriages of justice, so no comparison there.

I tell you what I do like the sound of Steve: my iron hitting tiny balls!

I haven't seen you post anything remotely scientific or technical to have any view on your understanding of the case in this regard. 

What you do post appears to be in the main wrong as confirmed above re DS Jones and the carpets.

Of course when high profile contentious convictions are eventually quashed it's easy to say it was an obvious miscarriage of justice.  In reality if it was that obvious the appellant would not have spent decades in jail and had his/her case batted away by CoA on previous occasions.  Unfortunately the system is in many ways perverse and cases are poorly managed and under resourced.

But hey ho I'm here now batting for the team that will eventually win.

[Holly Goodhead]

Where's the above from?  It's certainly not in the police interviews with DCI Jones that I've read.

All JB did was what most middle class young people did then and do now and that's travel between finishing ed and starting work.  And there's no evidence he was involved in any sort of wrongdoing or even anti-social behaviour eg brawling, getting drunk, behaving inappropriately around women etc. If there was I'm sure the Oz police or some hack would have discovered it by now.

DCI Jones' police interviews with JB:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=294.msg5031#msg5031

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=295.msg5032#msg5032

[Holly Goodhead]

I tell you what I do like the sound of Steve: my iron hitting tiny balls!

I haven't seen you post anything remotely scientific or technical to have any view on your understanding of the case in this regard. 

What you do post appears to be in the main wrong as confirmed above re DS Jones and the carpets.

Of course when high profile contentious convictions are eventually quashed it's easy to say it was an obvious miscarriage of justice.  In reality if it was that obvious the appellant would not have spent decades in jail and had his/her case batted away by CoA on previous occasions.  Unfortunately the system is in many ways perverse and cases are poorly managed and under resourced.

But hey ho I'm here now batting for the team that will eventually win.

Previous cases batted away by Coa that eventually went on to be rightfully overturned as will eventually happen with JB's case:

Stefan Kizsko

"We can find no grounds whatsoever to condemn the jury's verdict of murder as in any way safe or unsatisfactory.  The appeal is dismissed".  Lord Justice Bridge.

Stephen Downing

"The court felt that her evidence was not credible and secure enough to allow an appeal against the conviction".

Sally Clarke

"Despite recognition of the flaws in Meadow's statistical evidence, the convictions were upheld at appeal in October 2000."

Guildford Four

"Both the Guildford Four and the Maguire Seven unsuccessfully sought leave to appeal their convictions immediately".

"The Guildford Four tried to obtain from the Home Secretary a reference to the Court of Appeal under Section 17 of Criminal Appeal Act 1968 (later repeled) but were unsuccessful.

Birmingham 6

"In March 1976 their first application for leave to appeal was dismissed by the Court of Appeal, presided over by Lord Widgery CJ".

"In January 1988 after a six week hearing (at that time the longest criminal hearing ever held), the convictions were ruled to be safe and satisfactory.  The Court of Appeal, presided over by the Lord Chief Justice Lord Lane dismissed the appeals".

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again".

[Nicholas]

Stephen Downing

"The court felt that her evidence was not credible and secure enough to allow an appeal against the conviction".

Stephen Downing confessed
https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/man-admitted-bakewell-tart-murder-1-569524

“Detectives who reinvestigated a murder for which a man spent 27 years in prison before his conviction was quashed confirmed today that he remained the only suspect for the killing.
Police said they were unable to rule out Stephen Downing, 46, of Bakewell, Derbyshire, as the man who carried out the murder of typist Wendy Sewell in 1973.
And they also criticised campaigning journalist Don Hale, who fought tirelessly to prove Mr Downing's innocence.
The report claimed that some of the people he quoted in his book on the case do not recall speaking to him.
Mr Downing's case was hailed as one of the country's most significant miscarriages of justice following his release from prison on appeal in 2001 and a Court of Appeal ruling which overturned his conviction last January.
In a report on a new inquiry into the killing, made public this morning, Derbyshire Police Deputy Chief Constable Bob Wood said: "Wendy Sewell was a young woman in the prime of her life who was robbed of her future as a result of a vicious attack.
"We have carried out an extremely thorough reinvestigation and have been able to eliminate 22 individuals from the inquiry.
"Despite the lengthy investigation, we have not been able to eliminate Stephen Downing from the inquiry."
Mrs Sewell, who was 32, was bludgeoned to death
in the grounds of Bakewell Cemetery in September 1973 as she took a lunchtime stroll.
Police said today that they had asked to interview Mr Downing under caution as part of the six-month reinvestigation, but that he had refused.
Officers wanted to question him about three confessions he is alleged to have made since his release, including one recorded on audio tape.
"Throughout the re-investigation, Stephen Downing has maintained a good working relationship with the investigating officers," said the report.
"He provided his fingerprints for elimination purposes but refused to be interviewed following consultation with his legal representatives.
"Under English law, Mr Downing can only be compelled to be interviewed under caution if he was under arrest.
"Following the quashing of his conviction by the Court of Appeal, Mr Downing cannot be re-arrested, or indeed tried, for the murder of Wendy Sewell."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-167704/Downing-murder-suspect.html

Have long suspected Stephen Downing was or is monitored under MAPPA

Episode 8 here might be helpful https://www.wirelessstudios.co.uk/podcast/reporter/

[Nicholas]

Stephen Downing

"The court felt that her evidence was not credible and secure enough to allow an appeal against the conviction".

‘The judge noted, however, that counsel on behalf of the defence:

"... made the comment in so many words, I allege no impropriety on the part of the police."

Downing’s murder conviction was overturned on a technicality of law. There is no evidence to suggest he is innocent.

He had a history similar to Barry George

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1401325/Women-accuse-Stephen-Downing-of-assaulting-and-stalking-them.html

‘During the course of the reinvestigation, detectives established that Mr Hale had ignored many of his own notes, instead distorting information in an apparent attempt to blame others for Mrs Sewell's murder.

[Nicholas]

‘Sally killed Richard in 2010 after years of being controlled and humiliated by him. At the time of her conviction, ‘coercive control’ was not a crime in England and Wales,  only becoming recognised in law as a form of domestic abuse in 2015. Coercive control is a way of understanding domestic violence which foregrounds the psychological abuse and can involve manipulation, degradation, gaslighting (using mind games to make the other person doubt their sanity) and generally monitoring and controlling the person’s day-to-day life such as their friends, activities and clothing. This often leads to the abused becoming isolated and dependent on the abuser. It was dramatised very well in Helen’s storyline in Radio 4’s The Archer’s back in 2016.
https://www.justiceforwomen.org.uk/sally-challen-appeal

Bamber, through some of his supporters and his CT, has demonstrated how he uses ‘coercive control’ to get people to do what he wants

Trudi Benjamin at the graveside is one example https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

Wonder if Bamber’s legal team have considered the implications of this case and that of Bamber’s?

Mark Newby appears to be aware of the case

Mark Newby Retweeted
Garden Court Crime
@GardenCtCrime
RT
@GardenCtCrime
: 'Case of Sally Challen' 9pm tonight BBC2. 'This film offers a forensic examination of how the legal system grapples with…
https://mobile.twitter.com/marknewbyqsj/status/1204061272398020608

[Nicholas]

Episode 8 here might be helpful https://www.wirelessstudios.co.uk/podcast/reporter/

Isn’t that the voice of Mark Newby ?

[steve_trousers]

I tell you what I do like the sound of Steve: my iron hitting tiny balls!

I haven't seen you post anything remotely scientific or technical to have any view on your understanding of the case in this regard. 

What you do post appears to be in the main wrong as confirmed above re DS Jones and the carpets.

Of course when high profile contentious convictions are eventually quashed it's easy to say it was an obvious miscarriage of justice.  In reality if it was that obvious the appellant would not have spent decades in jail and had his/her case batted away by CoA on previous occasions.  Unfortunately the system is in many ways perverse and cases are poorly managed and under resourced.

But hey ho I'm here now batting for the team that will eventually win.

I tell you what if you somehow manage to free him I will give you a free hit with a 9 iron. And they are big by the way so you can’t miss this time.

But joking aside this is serious business Holly, the surviving relatives will be at risk. if it wasn’t so serious I would wish you luck with your theory

And while we’re at it I haven’t seen you ever post anything scientific or insightful either. I was right about the carpet and other things but have now given up trying to convince you, if it isn’t framing Sheila you don’t want to know