Author Topic: What IF Luke Mitchell is proven guilty after the remaining samples are tested?  (Read 5497 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Sorry you canít see the bigger picture. This isnít the thread for you. I am also sorry for your inability to understand.
How patronizing.  Perhaps you can explain how if Luke Mitchell is proven guilty that justice in Scotland will have failed?  No you canít.  All you can do is accuse me of not understanding, what you canít do is address my point. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

I'm still wondering why these untested samples will prove who the killer is?  If they are tested and found to be LM, will it make any difference, and if it is AN Other, how will it prove they were the killer and eliminate all the evidence and witness statements provided at the trial?

Genuinely curious.
Me too, but donít expect any sensible answers on here.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline KenMair

Me too, but donít expect any sensible answers on here.

People quoting Forbes as a credible source without a hint of irony would suggest a certain level of insensibilty. Mind you, some people have to believe in something.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Perhaps you can explain how if Luke Mitchell is proven guilty that justice in Scotland will have failed?  No you canít.  All you can do is accuse me of not understanding, what you canít do is address my point.
Let me address this one example at a time.  Even the authorities indicated that aspects of how Luke Mitchell was questioned were "outrageous."  For argument's sake, let's assume that he is guilty.  The next 15-year old may not be, and unless reforms are put into place, he or she might falsely confess, leading to a wrongful conviction.  Examples available upon request.

Offline faithlilly

People quoting Forbes as a credible source without a hint of irony would suggest a certain level of insensibilty. Mind you, some people have to believe in something.

Not matter what you think of Forbes itís a fact that he has a greater knowledge and understanding of the case than you or I by dint of having studied the defence papers. Of course itís always good practice, where possible, to obtain a corroborating source for any claims no matter where they come from.

Of course there are always some who are still hoodwinked by a tabloid headline or a poster on a forum with an agenda. They say that a lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is still getting itís boots onÖ.thatís never been more true than in this case.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 ďBut whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.Ē

Letís count the months, shall we?

Offline Chris_Halkides

I'm still wondering why these untested samples will prove who the killer is?  If they are tested and found to be LM, will it make any difference, and if it is AN Other, how will it prove they were the killer and eliminate all the evidence and witness statements provided at the trial?

Genuinely curious.
David Wilson said, "Witness testimony is weak, inconsistent and more than likely wrong..."  The podcast "Through the Wall" did a good job of talking the listener through these problems.  In a better world, new forensic evidence would prompt some pointed questions around the question of how this case unfolded.

Offline TruthSeeker2003

How patronizing.  Perhaps you can explain how if Luke Mitchell is proven guilty that justice in Scotland will have failed?  No you canít.  All you can do is accuse me of not understanding, what you canít do is address my point.

All the deliberate action that was taken to secure a conviction at all costs. None of it ethical or legal for that matter even if he was guilty.

I again apologise for your inability to comprehend the point of this thread. I am not patronising you. I am simply stating saying it as I find it.
ďI am a Truthseeker, searching for truthĒ ďMake of that what you willĒ

Offline TruthSeeker2003

Let me address this one example at a time.  Even the authorities indicated that aspects of how Luke Mitchell was questioned were "outrageous."  For argument's sake, let's assume that he is guilty.  The next 15-year old may not be, and unless reforms are put into place, he or she might falsely confess, leading to a wrongful conviction.  Examples available upon request.

@venturi swirl 🌀 this enable you to understand?

Thank you Chris. You get exactly my point!
ďI am a Truthseeker, searching for truthĒ ďMake of that what you willĒ

Offline TruthSeeker2003

David Wilson said, "Witness testimony is weak, inconsistent and more than likely wrong..."  The podcast "Through the Wall" did a good job of talking the listener through these problems.  In a better world, new forensic evidence would prompt some pointed questions around the question of how this case unfolded.

Exactly! Get it now Venturi Swirl 🌀?
ďI am a Truthseeker, searching for truthĒ ďMake of that what you willĒ

Offline Venturi Swirl

David Wilson said, "Witness testimony is weak, inconsistent and more than likely wrong..."  The podcast "Through the Wall" did a good job of talking the listener through these problems.  In a better world, new forensic evidence would prompt some pointed questions around the question of how this case unfolded.
Isnít this one manís point of view, someone who by his own admission does not have the full facts of the case and who makes a living out of sensationalist tv programmes?   Other professional and more knowledgeable view points may vary. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Chris_Halkides

Isnít this one manís point of view, someone who by his own admission does not have the full facts of the case and who makes a living out of sensationalist tv programmes?   Other professional and more knowledgeable view points may vary.
Regardless of your opinion of Professor Wilson, the problems with the witness testimony remain.  As an aside, one of the places in which these problems were highlighted was at the International Skeptics Forum, where there is also a thread on this case.  Rolfe's comments on Ms. Bryson's testimony were particularly helpful IMO.  But my main focus is not on the problems as much as it is on how there came to be so much testimony that changed over time.  An investigation can really go off the rails when the police cajole witnesses to alter what they initially said.

Offline faithlilly

Regardless of your opinion of Professor Wilson, the problems with the witness testimony remain.  As an aside, one of the places in which these problems were highlighted was at the International Skeptics Forum, where there is also a thread on this case.  Rolfe's comments on Ms. Bryson's testimony were particularly helpful IMO.  But my main focus is not on the problems as much as it is on how there came to be so much testimony that changed over time.  An investigation can really go off the rails when the police cajole witnesses to alter what they initially said.

Leonard Kellyís testimony is a case in point. Jodiís time of death relied heavily on the Ďstranglingí sound in the woods heard by Kelly around 5.15 yet, as teased out by Findlay at trial, Kelly hadnít mentioned a strangling sound in his first statement. His first statement mentioned a rustling sound like the movement of tree branches, not a human voice. Why his evidence changed can only be guessed at but there is talk that he was threatened with being made a suspect if he didnít cooperate.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 ďBut whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.Ē

Letís count the months, shall we?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Leonard Kellyís testimony is a case in point. Jodiís time of death relied heavily on the Ďstranglingí sound in the woods heard by Kelly around 5.15 yet, as teased out by Findlay at trial, Kelly hadnít mentioned a strangling sound in his first statement. His first statement mentioned a rustling sound like the movement of tree branches, not a human voice. Why his evidence changed can only be guessed at but there is talk that he was threatened with being made a suspect if he didnít cooperate.
Ēthere is talkĒ.  Youíll have to do better than that.  Why hasnít this man come forward to say he was coerced by the police to lie?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Nicholas

Leonard Kellyís testimony is a case in point. Jodiís time of death relied heavily on the Ďstranglingí sound in the woods heard by Kelly around 5.15 yet, as teased out by Findlay at trial, Kelly hadnít mentioned a strangling sound in his first statement. His first statement mentioned a rustling sound like the movement of tree branches, not a human voice. Why his evidence changed can only be guessed at but there is talk that he was threatened with being made a suspect if he didnít cooperate.

Leonard Kelly was home by around 5,15pm

Killer Luke Mitchell committed his murder earlier than 5:15pm!

TIMELINE
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/04/09/30th-june-2003-timeline-of-14-year-old-killer-luke-mitchells-murder-part-174/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?Ē Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Leonard Kelly was home by around 5,15pm

Killer Luke Mitchell committed his murder earlier than 5:15pm!

TIMELINE
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/04/09/30th-june-2003-timeline-of-14-year-old-killer-luke-mitchells-murder-part-174/

Did Leonard Kelly testify that he had described the sound differently in his first statement to the testimony he gave in court?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 ďBut whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.Ē

Letís count the months, shall we?