If the children were being sedated...

[Alf]

Jesus fck, you have changed.

Now we're venturing back in to the realm of the old 'incremental dosage theory', post the crying on the 1st and the spate of generally ill kids.
Good of Kate to corroborate Mrs. Fenn's account for us though. One of the few verifiable, corroborated facts in this tapestry of tw..tery.

I have changed but there's no need to bring our Lord's name into it.  My understanding of sedatives such as Midazolam is that it sedates people, especially children and calms them down, so that being the case it still doesn't quite explain why having upped the dose on Madeleine she is then up and about within the hour throwing herself off the sofa (or down the verandah stairs as some would prefer).  Much as I agree that's almost certainly what happened it's still a puzzle.  Now, how do you think Gerry broke the news at the table, or do you think he told Kate later after her hysterics had subsided a bit? 

[The General]

I have changed but there's no need to bring our Lord's name into it.  My understanding of sedatives such as Midazolam is that it sedates people, especially children and calms them down, so that being the case it still doesn't quite explain why having upped the dose on Madeleine she is then up and about within the hour throwing herself off the sofa (or down the verandah stairs as some would prefer).  Much as I agree that's almost certainly what happened it's still a puzzle.  Now, how do you think Gerry broke the news at the table, or do you think he told Kate later after her hysterics had subsided a bit?

Quid Pro Quo, Alf. I tell you things, you tell me things. Not about this case, though. About yourself. Actually, not about yourself, about the case. Quid pro quo. Yes or no?

...but I will give you a clue, Midazolam is merely an example of potentially available anaesthesiological ecutrements one might have to hand.

[Alf]

Quid Pro Quo, Alf. I tell you things, you tell me things. Not about this case, though. About yourself. Actually, not about yourself, about the case. Quid pro quo. Yes or no?

...but I will give you a clue, Midazolam is merely an example of potentially available anaesthesiological ecutrements one might have to hand.

What do you want to know: pre-Vince or post-Vince?

[Alf]

Let’s list the sedatives that have the opposite effect of sedating sleepy children, ie: ones that might wear off within an hour despite an increased dose and which make little kiddies wake up and wander about within an hour or so of them falling into a deep sedative-induced sleep.  Let’s start a list, it might lead somewhere….

[The General]

Let’s list the sedatives that have the opposite effect of sedating sleepy children, ie: ones that might wear off within an hour despite an increased dose and which make little kiddies wake up and wander about within an hour or so of them falling into a deep sedative-induced sleep.  Let’s start a list, it might lead somewhere….

Unfortunately my knowledge of the subject extends to the information I have provided, having had 2nd hand experience of the substance identified.
However, as a layman I would imagine that, despite their collective expertise, sedation of children of differing ages for a specified time period is not an exact science. Trial and error would be required.
Why didn't AM cry, only SM and MM - again, corroborated by KM?

[Alf]

Unfortunately my knowledge of the subject extends to the information I have provided, having had 2nd hand experience of the substance identified.
However, as a layman I would imagine that, despite their collective expertise, sedation of children of differing ages for a specified time period is not an exact science. Trial and error would be required.
Why didn't AM cry, only SM and MM - again, corroborated by KM?

You’d think what with both of them being doctors and her an anesthetist too and what with it being towards the end of the holiday that they would have got it down to a fine art by then wouldn’t you?  Not to mention the fact that all the other non-anesthetist members of the group managed to keep their kids quiet all week without any problems.  Very odd.  Anyway, perhaps someone more expert than you can shed some light on which sedatives have the opposite effects to those intended when administered to small, sleepy kids.

BTW Are we ok speculating wildly about this?  I know we always so “no evidence of abduction “ in order to shut down that particular theory but I guess it’s ok to speculate as long as we’re only focusing on the McCanns and not completely innocent men like Bruckner?

[The General]

You’d think what with both of them being doctors and her an anesthetist too and what with it being towards the end of the holiday that they would have got it down to a fine art by then wouldn’t you?  Not to mention the fact that all the other non-anesthetist members of the group managed to keep their kids quiet all week without any problems.  Very odd.  Anyway, perhaps someone more expert than you can shed some light on which sedatives have the opposite effects to those intended when administered to small, sleepy kids.

BTW Are we ok speculating wildly about this?  I know we always so “no evidence of abduction “ in order to shut down that particular theory but I guess it’s ok to speculate as long as we’re only focusing on the McCanns and not completely innocent men like Bruckner?

You neglect to mention the 'double dose' theory. It's possible.

[Alf]

You neglect to mention the 'double dose' theory. It's possible.

I’m not familiar with this theory, please explain.

[The General]

I’m not familiar with this theory, please explain.

I know you're new to all this sceptic malarkey, but essentially maybe they double dosed, with GM doing it, then KM also administering a dose (overdose). It’s not as if the children in the party were exhibiting the best of health during the holiday, with sickness seemingly commonplace.

[The General]

What do you want to know: pre-Vince or post-Vince?

I'm sure you're familiar with why Ms Moyet stuck with the name Alf? Quite an inspiring tale of defiance in the face of veiled misogyny.

[Alf]

I know you're new to all this sceptic malarkey, but essentially maybe they double dosed, with GM doing it, then KM also administering a dose (overdose). It’s not as if the children in the party were exhibiting the best of health during the holiday, with sickness seemingly commonplace.

I see. So one dose has a sedative effect and a second dose acts like an antidote to the first dose making them wake up and wander around in a daze?  I see, thanks for the clarification. 

[Alf]

I'm sure you're familiar with why Ms Moyet stuck with the name Alf? Quite an inspiring tale of defiance in the face of veiled misogyny.

More than familiar dear.

[The General]

I see. So one dose has a sedative effect and a second dose acts like an antidote to the first dose making them wake up and wander around in a daze?  I see, thanks for the clarification.

...and just like that, there's the real VS.

[Alf]

...and just like that, there's the real VS.

Not at all, I am perfectly open to the idea that a double dose would have the opposite effect on a small sleepy child, I’m just not that familiar with the science behind it,  So, if anyone has a link to this double dosing phenomenon whereby a small sleepy child is given double dose of a powerful sedative and then is awake enough after an hour or so of deep sleep to thenclimb the furniture or open sliding doors I would love to read it.  I always think some basis in reality is nice in cases like this, just a little bit of evidence I’m sure you would agree? 

Anyhow, in the meantime let’s assume you’re spot on.  Where on the timeline do you suppose she was discovered and whereabouts in the apartment?  You seem to hold great store by the blood spatter so behind the sofa perhaps?  Please paint a picture of how you see the tragic events unfolding up to that point, if you don’t mind.

[The General]

Not at all, I am perfectly open to the idea that a double dose would have the opposite effect on a small sleepy child, I’m just not that familiar with the science behind it,  So, if anyone has a link to this double dosing phenomenon whereby a small sleepy child is given double dose of a powerful sedative and then is awake enough after an hour or so of deep sleep to thenclimb the furniture or open sliding doors I would love to read it.  I always think some basis in reality is nice in cases like this, just a little bit of evidence I’m sure you would agree? 

Anyhow, in the meantime let’s assume you’re spot on.  Where on the timeline do you suppose she was discovered and whereabouts in the apartment?  You seem to hold great store by the blood spatter so behind the sofa perhaps?  Please paint a picture of how you see the tragic events unfolding up to that point, if you don’t mind.

Fck knows. What do you think?
I do know, on the balance of probabilities, the 15 matching DNA markers mean that was MM's bodily fluid. So again, Mrs Alf Sceptic, what do you think?
I'm beginning to smell a rat here.....