The Venturi Effect and other possible solutions

[Venturi Swirl]

I remember mother would heat water over the fire in a copper pan and pour it into an old tin bath in front of fire.  Father would get in first, and make water all black from the soot on his hands and face (he were a coal miner), then our Harold would get in next (him being eldest), then Susan, then the twins Jimmy and Johnny, I'd be next and then mother and baby Mabel would be last in.  Water would be quite tepid by this point so father would pour in another pan of hot water (if he was still awake or hadn't b....red off t'Coach & Horses).  Ah, them were the days.

[Brietta]

Those were the days, the door to the room had to left ajar so the fire could draw.

The appliance of science being described. 

Little did we know it was all down to something called the Venturi Effect; and exactly as recorded in Kate's witness statement when she described the slamming door and the whooshing curtains.

[Brietta]

I remember mother would heat water over the fire in a copper pan and pour it into an old tin bath in front of fire.  Father would get in first, and make water all black from the soot on his hands and face (he were a coal miner), then our Harold would get in next (him being eldest), then Susan, then the twins Jimmy and Johnny, I'd be next and then mother and baby Mabel would be last in.  Water would be quite tepid by this point so father would pour in another pan of hot water (if he was still awake or hadn't b....red off t'Coach & Horses).  Ah, them were the days.

I was well into that before I heard the theme music playing in the background!!!!!!!!!!

[G-Unit]

I remember mother would heat water over the fire in a copper pan and pour it into an old tin bath in front of fire.  Father would get in first, and make water all black from the soot on his hands and face (he were a coal miner), then our Harold would get in next (him being eldest), then Susan, then the twins Jimmy and Johnny, I'd be next and then mother and baby Mabel would be last in.  Water would be quite tepid by this point so father would pour in another pan of hot water (if he was still awake or hadn't b....red off t'Coach & Horses).  Ah, them were the days.

Soot? Coal dust surely, unless he was a chimney sweep.

[Myster]

Soot? Coal dust surely, unless he was a chimney sweep.

He swept chimneys part-time after doing his twelve-hour shift at coal face.  Young uns don't know what work is these days.

[Venturi Swirl]

Soot? Coal dust surely, unless he was a chimney sweep.

You spotted the deliberate mistake, well done.  Just checking you were awake 

[Venturi Swirl]

He swept chimneys part-time after doing his twelve-hour shift at coal face.  Young uns don't know what work is these days.

Before actually.  Then he got a bit too portly to get up them chimneys and would send our Harold to do his round, water would be even filthier after that.  Still, they were happy days, always bread ont’table (couldn’t afford plates).

[sadie]

Before actually.  Then he got a bit too portly to get up them chimneys and would send our Harold to do his round, water would be even filthier after that.  Still, they were happy days, always bread ont’table (couldn’t afford plates).

Love your new name VENTURI Swirl.   

What an original and lively mind you have 
A lateral as well as a vertical thinker

Would love you and three or four of the others in a team working things out

[Brietta]

Love your new name VENTURI Swirl.   

What an original and lively mind you have 
A lateral as well as a vertical thinker

Would love you and three or four of the others in a team working things out

I think it is brilliant!

There have been so many good discussions which have taken place on the forum which ended quite definitively and are then forgotten and groundhogdayed at a later date, that are worth being reminded of.

The reasoning which led to the "discovery" of the Venturi Effect when Kate's description of what happened when she did the 10pm check is just one.
It counterbalances some of the ridicule that Kate's honest account attracted with the science which caused the effect.

It is my understanding that Rebelo was interested in records of the wind velocity and direction, as well as conducting an intense physical investigation of the locus.  So maybe he beat our very intelligent members to it way back in 2007.

[Brietta]

I do.    Reasons:

1)  The patio door opening didn't happen the same time as a gust outside
2)  The bedroom door was wide open when Kate entered via the patio door and for the venturi ffect to take place, the gap between door and surround had to be minimal.
3)   If the bedroom door was open so that it lined up with the corner of the wardrobe, then none of the back face of the door had any wind on it.   The back face of the door was in the Lee of the corner of the wardrobe.



Item 2 is the most likely.   The conditions re gap where not suitable for a Venturi reaction.


It wa only as the gap betwixt door and frame narrowed that the Venturi effect came into operation.

I think the whole point is, Sadie, that what we think we know has to be tempered with dismissing our own prejudices and reading carefully through what witnesses are saying and analysing that information.

Collectively there must have been volume upon volume of internet myth and ridicule with Kate's whooshing curtains and slamming door being the catalyst.  All based on ignorance!
When looked at rationally, Kate's description mirrors the science and what she stated happened is known as the Venturi Effect.
I think it is highly probable that Rebelo and the highly qualified team he brought with him to the investigation had worked that out given the known interest shown in relevant areas of the crime scene.

[G-Unit]

I think the whole point is, Sadie, that what we think we know has to be tempered with dismissing our own prejudices and reading carefully through what witnesses are saying and analysing that information.

Collectively there must have been volume upon volume of internet myth and ridicule with Kate's whooshing curtains and slamming door being the catalyst.  All based on ignorance!
When looked at rationally, Kate's description mirrors the science and what she stated happened is known as the Venturi Effect.
I think it is highly probable that Rebelo and the highly qualified team he brought with him to the investigation had worked that out given the known interest shown in relevant areas of the crime scene.

I thought we all knew that leaving a window wide open on a windy day caused internal doors to move? I once lived in an apartment with a balcony door. If that was open on a windy day and the front door was opened it would slam, as it did one day when I'd stepped outside to speak to my neighbour and got locked out.

In my opinion there were other reasons why people questioned Kate McCann's account.

[Brietta]

I thought we all knew that leaving a window wide open on a windy day caused internal doors to move? I once lived in an apartment with a balcony door. If that was open on a windy day and the front door was opened it would slam, as it did one day when I'd stepped outside to speak to my neighbour and got locked out.

In my opinion there were other reasons why people questioned Kate McCann's account.

There are people who question absolutely everything the McCanns say or do: always have done and always will do till their dying breath.

Explaining why something simple like a door slamming and (for example) getting locked out as a result happens is difficult for individuals who fail to grasp that a children's medicine is an analgesic and not a sedative.

[G-Unit]

There are people who question absolutely everything the McCanns say or do: always have done and always will do till their dying breath.

Explaining why something simple like a door slamming and (for example) getting locked out as a result happens is difficult for individuals who fail to grasp that a children's medicine is an analgesic and not a sedative.

I don't know what method of child checking was used by the McCanns. They could have entered the apartment and left again if all was quiet. I recall Matthew Oldfield reported that 'all was quiet'. Kate's first impulse on entering the patio doors was to stand and listen. On 3rd May, however, both she and her husband reported seeing changes to the door of the children's bedroom. In both cases this led them to enter the room and look at the children. If Redwood was correct, however, Madeleine was taken after 9.30pm, so who was messing with that door before Gerry and Matthew's visits and why?

[Brietta]

I don't know what method of child checking was used by the McCanns. They could have entered the apartment and left again if all was quiet. I recall Matthew Oldfield reported that 'all was quiet'. Kate's first impulse on entering the patio doors was to stand and listen. On 3rd May, however, both she and her husband reported seeing changes to the door of the children's bedroom. In both cases this led them to enter the room and look at the children. If Redwood was correct, however, Madeleine was taken after 9.30pm, so who was messing with that door before Gerry and Matthew's visits and why?

I was prompted to open this thread when a member displayed ignorance of information which is already on the forum.

We all take part in discussions which we may not remember verbatim - but the information is all already in existence on the forum.
I can assure you this is very much the case regarding the movement of the door because I have been reading threads dedicated to the subject as well as some mentioning it in passing.

I suggest you use the forum search facility to answer your query because the answer is definitely there.

[G-Unit]

I was prompted to open this thread when a member displayed ignorance of information which is already on the forum.

We all take part in discussions which we may not remember verbatim - but the information is all already in existence on the forum.
I can assure you this is very much the case regarding the movement of the door because I have been reading threads dedicated to the subject as well as some mentioning it in passing.

I suggest you use the forum search facility to answer your query because the answer is definitely there.

Theories abound, but not supported evidence imo.