Author Topic: Why was Luke not seen after school?  (Read 12797 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2021, 04:29:54 PM »
According to Sandra Lean, Shane came downstairs to collect his dinner just after 1715, after being logged on to car websites (websites that generated or caused pop-ups for porn sites to appear on his monitor for only a few seconds . . . as per Sandra Lean’s book & a Mr Cravens who analysed Shane’s computer hard drive for police, Shane hadn’t accessed porn sites because they were popups that the car websites generated). It was Luke who made the dinner for everyone. Shane took his upstairs to his room, Corinne had hers out in the back garden (except she had prawns and wanted to go outside as she’d been couped up all day in her work office and wanted to enjoy the June sun) and Luke ate his in the living room, in front of the tv. Shane went out to meet friends just after 1730 and Luke went out a few minutes later to go and meet Jodi (all as per Sandra’s book).

What did Luke Mitchell say to the police about these alleged prawns?

Did he stand at the sink rinsing them until cold water for them to defrost - presuming they were frozen (His mum was said to have purchased a pack of cigarettes from the shop not fresh prawns and she wasn’t due to do a food shop apparently until the Tuesday re James English podcast with Corrine) or did he sit them in cold water and if so how long for?

« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 05:51:52 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2021, 05:18:34 PM »
I think it's all very well, one thing, that LM, a 14yr old may have, in the heat of the moment become so enraged he killed his girlfriend. Being able to plan the perfect cover up in the aftermath is something entirely different. "The police didn't bank on Luke being Luke though" - there is however no way that LM could have banked on the police being anything. Of the finer details in everything that would have been sought to confirm all that was said.

What did he need - An alibi, evident at this point that only his mother would perhaps suffice. No evident collaboration from SM. From the moment it was evident however that his mother would not suffice, SM's story changed.

Does it make sense, even after the change - simply no. That he had come downstairs, Luke was mashing tatties, had a conversation around the dinner, went back upstairs, then came down and collected his dinner, took it upstairs, ate it and left shortly after 5.30pm - CM did not arrive home until 5.15pm at the earliest, the dinner was not ready. Where is the time?

We know by Luke's account he could not have left any later really that 5.30pm. He claimed to have made the call to the Jones landline, whilst sitting on the wall at the entrance of the estate. This call was at 5.32pm.

Both brothers, irrespective of change in statements made it clear that neither saw the other around these times of leaving.

How could this possibly be? - SM could not have left earlier than LM and SM could not have failed to see Luke walking or sitting on the wall. There is only one entrance to Newbattle Abbey crescent. It is a straight road to the entrance from the house in which they stayed.

The above (in bold) appears to have stemmed from Luke Mitchell himself

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=487.msg546670#msg546670

Luke Mitchell
Quote
'I was never going to break down in public - I'm not that kind of bloke
They made a mistake and thought I was just a normal teenager'
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 05:55:40 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2021, 05:22:21 PM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=487.msg546670#msg546670

The police spoke with journalist James Matthews - did they also speak with and take a statement from Grace McLean from the Daily Mail?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 05:50:35 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2021, 09:19:08 PM »
I remember reading on another forum a few month back SL saying that there were a couple of boys from Luke’s year at school said he took his normal route home that day. Disappearing act after school never happened — that there were witness statements from people who knew  Luke testifying that he took his normal route home. One kid apparently was leaned on afterwards - he changed his story to he thought he'd seen Luke walking home, then he wasn't sure, then he didn't think it was that day. First statement from this kid was absolutely certain — what do we think happened there?

One other theory for the lack of anything categorical re LM’s journey home from school that day is that maybe he walked his normal route home but did so alone because he’d had an argument with Jodi in school that day (possibly over Kimberly Thomson) and wasn’t in the mood for company. There were stories of them being in the China Gardens that afternoon during school lunch break but they weren’t talking to one another and apparently they had their backs to one another during all the lunch break. Also, one of Jodi’s best friends at the time (a girl called Kirsten Ford) mentioned that Jodi seemed more quiet than normal that day.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES%3A+HER+SOULMATES+My+Luke+has+all+these+knives+in+his...-a0127512558


Offline rulesapply

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2021, 09:49:14 PM »
So no porn sites, therefore no masturbation and no justification for knowing that there was no one in the house.

Shane didn’t make the dinner and there was no time for Corrine to make the dinner if Shane left the house at 5.30. So who made the dinner?

Maybe there wasn't a dinner or maybe all three weren't home for dinner.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2021, 11:06:04 PM »
I remember reading on another forum a few month back SL saying that there were a couple of boys from Luke’s year at school said he took his normal route home that day. Disappearing act after school never happened — that there were witness statements from people who knew  Luke testifying that he took his normal route home. One kid apparently was leaned on afterwards - he changed his story to he thought he'd seen Luke walking home, then he wasn't sure, then he didn't think it was that day. First statement from this kid was absolutely certain — what do we think happened there?

One other theory for the lack of anything categorical re LM’s journey home from school that day is that maybe he walked his normal route home but did so alone because he’d had an argument with Jodi in school that day (possibly over Kimberly Thomson) and wasn’t in the mood for company. There were stories of them being in the China Gardens that afternoon during school lunch break but they weren’t talking to one another and apparently they had their backs to one another during all the lunch break. Also, one of Jodi’s best friends at the time (a girl called Kirsten Ford) mentioned that Jodi seemed more quiet than normal that day.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES%3A+HER+SOULMATES+My+Luke+has+all+these+knives+in+his...-a0127512558

There were no witnesses who came forward to say they saw him after school, he effectively disappeared only to reappear hours later at home.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline rulesapply

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2021, 11:31:05 PM »
There were no witnesses who came forward to say they saw him after school, he effectively disappeared only to reappear hours later at home.
Thanks

Offline William Wallace

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2021, 12:15:18 AM »
I now know why Sandra Lean and Corinne Mitchell failed to identify this 5-bar wooden gate but that will remain my secret for the moment.


For those readers who are new to the forum I can tell you that a youth matching Mitchell's description was seen by two passers-by in a car at this gate a few minutes after Jodi's murder.  Mrs Walsh and Mrs Fleming were most insistent that the youth they had seen that day was indeed Mitchell.

They identified Mitchell in court as being this person.

One has to ask the question, how many other lads with shoulder-length hair wearing a green Bomber jacket with orange lining were out on this part of Newbattle road at 5.40pm that afternoon.

Strange part in all of this too is that Luke never saw him but then, after all, it was his doppelgänger!

Walsh and Fleming were not insistent the youth they saw was Mitchell, what they said in Court was that he looked very similar to Mitchell. There's a big difference between that and what you've said. You also don't mention that 2 other witnesses saw a youth in similar clothing shortly after this near a lane in Newbattle near her in-laws house which is close to LM's house. One of these people knew who Luke Mitchell was as she had seen him and Jodi around several times in recent weeks. She said the person she saw was most definitely NOT Mitchell. I've spoken to her very recently. Even now she says 100% that it wasn't Mitchell.

The person she saw was wearing a green bomber type jacket similar to what was seen by Fleming and Walsh who didn't know Mitchell, nor did they get more than a passing glimpse of his face from their car. The chances of 2 people being seen wearing a green jacket within a few minutes of each other are somewhat remote. It's almost certainly the same person, but the witness who knew what Mitchell looked like said it definitely wasn't him she saw. The person she saw was older, late teens at least and a good bit taller (LM was only 5-4 I think).

Offline rulesapply

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2021, 12:18:27 AM »
Walsh and Fleming were not insistent the youth they saw was Mitchell, what they said in Court was that he looked very similar to Mitchell. There's a big difference between that and what you've said. You also don't mention that 2 other witnesses saw a youth in similar clothing shortly after this near a lane in Newbattle near her in-laws house which is close to LM's house. One of these people knew who Luke Mitchell was as she had seen him and Jodi around several times in recent weeks. She said the person she saw was most definitely NOT Mitchell. I've spoken to her very recently. Even now she says 100% that it wasn't Mitchell.

The person she saw was wearing a green bomber type jacket similar to what was seen by Fleming and Walsh who didn't know Mitchell, nor did they get more than a passing glimpse of his face from their car. The chances of 2 people being seen wearing a green jacket within a few minutes of each other are somewhat remote. It's almost certainly the same person, but the witness who knew what Mitchell looked like said it definitely wasn't him she saw. The person she saw was older, late teens at least and a good bit taller (LM was only 5-4 I think).

Do you have a cite?

Offline William Wallace

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2021, 12:34:08 AM »
Some of what I said was reported in the Press at the time, but the person who was a witness at the Trial told me that herself very recently.

Personally I think Mitchell was a victim of "confirmation bias" by the Police from the very start. When you look at it logically, how could someone carry out an extreme murder such as this and be seen less than 45m later, with no blood or scratches, leave no trace of DNA at the scene and leave no trace in his house even although forensics can find blood that has been washed down plug holes and pipes? More so when it was found Mitchell's nails and hair had not been cleaned/washed that night. He didn't do it. It is possible also that he lied about being in the house because he feared getting blamed. He might actually have been out the house, but wasn't the person who did it.

Regarding the absence of DNA, there was a case in Glasgow recently where the accused's DNA was found on the seat lever of the victim's car. The murder didn't happen in her car, but they still found that tiny bit of DNA. That s..mbag got in the car to clean it (was seen on CCTV doing it also), didn't want to be seen putting gloves on outside it, so probably got in the car and used the seat lever to put the seat back then put gloves on. If his DNA was found because he touched something, how could Mitchell's DNA not be found at the scene or anywhere else?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 12:40:59 AM by William Wallace »

Offline rulesapply

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2021, 12:44:07 AM »
Some of what I said was reported in the Press at the time, but the person who was a witness at the Trial told me that herself very recently.

Personally I think Mitchell was a victim of "confirmation bias" by the Police from the very start. When you look at it logically, how could someone carry out an extreme murder such as this and be seen less than 45m later, with no blood or scratches, leave no trace of DNA at the scene and leave no trace in his house even although forensics can find blood that has been washed down plug holes and pipes? More so when it was found Mitchell's nails and hair had not been cleaned/washed that night. He didn't do it. It is possible also that he lied about being in the house because he feared getting blamed. He might actually have been out the house, but wasn't the person who did it.

Regarding the absence of DNA, there was a case in Glasgow recently where the accused's DNA was found on the seat lever of the victim's car. The murder didn't happen in her car, but they still found that tiny bit of DNA. That s..mbag got in the car to clean it (was seen on CCTV doing it also), didn't want to be seen putting gloves on outside it, so probably got in the car and used the seat lever to put the seat back then put gloves on. If his DNA was found because he touched something, how could Mitchell's DNA not be found at the scene or anywhere else?

I have lots of second hand information from mutual friends of mine and Kane's but I resist posting the info here because,  like your info, it's second hand and I don't have a cite.

Offline Parky41

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2021, 01:36:22 AM »
Walsh and Fleming were not insistent the youth they saw was Mitchell, what they said in Court was that he looked very similar to Mitchell. There's a big difference between that and what you've said. You also don't mention that 2 other witnesses saw a youth in similar clothing shortly after this near a lane in Newbattle near her in-laws house which is close to LM's house. One of these people knew who Luke Mitchell was as she had seen him and Jodi around several times in recent weeks. She said the person she saw was most definitely NOT Mitchell. I've spoken to her very recently. Even now she says 100% that it wasn't Mitchell.

The person she saw was wearing a green bomber type jacket similar to what was seen by Fleming and Walsh who didn't know Mitchell, nor did they get more than a passing glimpse of his face from their car. The chances of 2 people being seen wearing a green jacket within a few minutes of each other are somewhat remote. It's almost certainly the same person, but the witness who knew what Mitchell looked like said it definitely wasn't him she saw. The person she saw was older, late teens at least and a good bit taller (LM was only 5-4 I think).

Nonsense - they were called as witnesses for the prosecution, specifically due to getting that blouson jacket and jeans correct, the same clothing seen by the boys on the pushbike, and not the same jacket as that by F&W. They could only ID the clothing and not the person, and no they did not know LM. You are mixing up the witness who did know him, who positively ID him with that same jacket on.

Now for the part you are correct on - there were not two people on that stretch of road at the same time, wearing the same clothing - spot on there! Very much why they were called as witnesses, to show the Jury that it had to have been Mitchell and that he was spotted at a point in the road he claimed not to have walked to. That Jacket shown to them by the AD and them agreeing it was the jacket the youth had been wearing. And stating to the Jury, that even though they could not ID Luke as the person, there could be no doubt that only one youth was on that stretch of road wearing that jacket and that youth had to be LM, as he had been positively ID with that clothing on by the motorist who knew him and by those boys on the pushbikes. All around the same time frame. And although Mitchell stated he had not walked that far, he still claimed to have been on that road at that exact time.

It was to show the Jury, that Mitchell lied easily, and the sighting was near to the entrance to the woods. And DF attempted to show that Mitchell was telling the truth, that he had not walked that far, leaving that ludicrous notion of there being two people dressed identically!!

So no, it was not the same jacket and F&W were not wavering on it being Mitchell. To the point, of whilst under duress of questioning by the defence, stated clearly and without doubt ! "I know what I saw, you are trying to confuse me!"  And of the picture in the paper, and "look, it's him, the person we saw!"

And we know without a doubt it was not MK at that gate - so muddle away with the same ole same ole - There were not two youths identical on that stretch of road at the same time! One ID by F&W as being Mitchell, and no other looking the same as him, with another khaki green jacket on. As with the one who stated it was NOT Mitchell but wearing the exact same clothing he actually did have on, when positively ID by the others. - One youth and that youth was LM, plain and simple. ID with that German army style parka on at the gate, and around 15mins later he had changed into that green blouson jacket. And he was seen by 7 people with that blouson, Two motorists who knew him, positively ID him and the jacket he was wearing, The three cyclists, again who knew him and ID that jacket he had on. And the other two in the car, who did not know him! and gave a positive ID of that jacket and clothing and stated that it was not Mitchell. - Fluke? not on your life, It was Mitchell.

What it does show us, depending on what the focus is upon, what different people will pick up on. The ones who could not ID LM got every part of his clothing spot on! The ones who knew him, knew him. The one's who didn't and were concentrated on him, ID him and got the clothing close, but not exact! And of AB, F&W and the motorist who could not ID - all said the same thing, there was something off about him, up to no good, looking dubious, and confrontational.

So some baby steps here, it is not a long stretch of road we are talking of here. Mere seconds between the different points in a car. F&W see Mitchell at the gate, with that khaki green Parka style jacket on, seconds to drive that small stretch of road, and they do not see another youth in khaki green clothing looking like the one at the gate, And you would notice! There was only one youth and it could only be Mitchell. The motorist who did not know him, again only saw one youth in that exact jacket Mitchell was wearing, no other youth on that road. Just him, it was Mitchell.

And we know you must be talking of a different witness, that no one who gave evidence, that stated it was NOT Mitchell claimed to have known him - are you saying they were lying in court? Put it this way, that would make it stand out more, as they did not state they saw a youth looking dubious with Mitchells clothing on, the did not see Mitchell at the entrance even though they knew him - there are those bells again!!

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2021, 09:26:54 AM »
Walsh and Fleming were not insistent the youth they saw was Mitchell, what they said in Court was that he looked very similar to Mitchell. There's a big difference between that and what you've said. You also don't mention that 2 other witnesses saw a youth in similar clothing shortly after this near a lane in Newbattle near her in-laws house which is close to LM's house. One of these people knew who Luke Mitchell was as she had seen him and Jodi around several times in recent weeks. She said the person she saw was most definitely NOT Mitchell. I've spoken to her very recently. Even now she says 100% that it wasn't Mitchell.

The person she saw was wearing a green bomber type jacket similar to what was seen by Fleming and Walsh who didn't know Mitchell, nor did they get more than a passing glimpse of his face from their car. The chances of 2 people being seen wearing a green jacket within a few minutes of each other are somewhat remote. It's almost certainly the same person, but the witness who knew what Mitchell looked like said it definitely wasn't him she saw. The person she saw was older, late teens at least and a good bit taller (LM was only 5-4 I think).

Talk about throwing a spanner in the works! Who is this woman, WW? Marion O’Sullivan? The woman who drove by the N’battle rd with her partner Derek Hamilton around 1800 that day? This couple testified in court that they identified a young male wearing a green bomber jacket, but were unambiguous that it definitely was not Mitchell. Or is this another witness?

People who saw a youth on N’battle road wearing either a green parka or green bomber jacket on 30.06.03:

F&W, the 3 boys on push bikes, MO & her partner DH and the woman who was an employee of the Scottish Executive. 8 people in total. Am I missing something?

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2021, 10:17:40 AM »
Just seems weird that not a single soul can vouch for LM's whereabouts.

Not even his brother.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why was Luke not seen after school?
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2021, 10:26:48 AM »
Nonsense - they were called as witnesses for the prosecution, specifically due to getting that blouson jacket and jeans correct, the same clothing seen by the boys on the pushbike, and not the same jacket as that by F&W. They could only ID the clothing and not the person, and no they did not know LM. You are mixing up the witness who did know him, who positively ID him with that same jacket on.

Now for the part you are correct on - there were not two people on that stretch of road at the same time, wearing the same clothing - spot on there! Very much why they were called as witnesses, to show the Jury that it had to have been Mitchell and that he was spotted at a point in the road he claimed not to have walked to. That Jacket shown to them by the AD and them agreeing it was the jacket the youth had been wearing. And stating to the Jury, that even though they could not ID Luke as the person, there could be no doubt that only one youth was on that stretch of road wearing that jacket and that youth had to be LM, as he had been positively ID with that clothing on by the motorist who knew him and by those boys on the pushbikes. All around the same time frame. And although Mitchell stated he had not walked that far, he still claimed to have been on that road at that exact time.

It was to show the Jury, that Mitchell lied easily, and the sighting was near to the entrance to the woods. And DF attempted to show that Mitchell was telling the truth, that he had not walked that far, leaving that ludicrous notion of there being two people dressed identically!!

So no, it was not the same jacket and F&W were not wavering on it being Mitchell. To the point, of whilst under duress of questioning by the defence, stated clearly and without doubt ! "I know what I saw, you are trying to confuse me!"  And of the picture in the paper, and "look, it's him, the person we saw!"

And we know without a doubt it was not MK at that gate - so muddle away with the same ole same ole - There were not two youths identical on that stretch of road at the same time! One ID by F&W as being Mitchell, and no other looking the same as him, with another khaki green jacket on. As with the one who stated it was NOT Mitchell but wearing the exact same clothing he actually did have on, when positively ID by the others. - One youth and that youth was LM, plain and simple. ID with that German army style parka on at the gate, and around 15mins later he had changed into that green blouson jacket. And he was seen by 7 people with that blouson, Two motorists who knew him, positively ID him and the jacket he was wearing, The three cyclists, again who knew him and ID that jacket he had on. And the other two in the car, who did not know him! and gave a positive ID of that jacket and clothing and stated that it was not Mitchell. - Fluke? not on your life, It was Mitchell.

What it does show us, depending on what the focus is upon, what different people will pick up on. The ones who could not ID LM got every part of his clothing spot on! The ones who knew him, knew him. The one's who didn't and were concentrated on him, ID him and got the clothing close, but not exact! And of AB, F&W and the motorist who could not ID - all said the same thing, there was something off about him, up to no good, looking dubious, and confrontational.

So some baby steps here, it is not a long stretch of road we are talking of here. Mere seconds between the different points in a car. F&W see Mitchell at the gate, with that khaki green Parka style jacket on, seconds to drive that small stretch of road, and they do not see another youth in khaki green clothing looking like the one at the gate, And you would notice! There was only one youth and it could only be Mitchell. The motorist who did not know him, again only saw one youth in that exact jacket Mitchell was wearing, no other youth on that road. Just him, it was Mitchell.

And we know you must be talking of a different witness, that no one who gave evidence, that stated it was NOT Mitchell claimed to have known him - are you saying they were lying in court? Put it this way, that would make it stand out more, as they did not state they saw a youth looking dubious with Mitchells clothing on, the did not see Mitchell at the entrance even though they knew him - there are those bells again!!

You are absolutely correct. The boy seen by all the witnesses was the same person. The only problem is the jogger described by RW was never on the stretch of bridge RW described but further up, nearer to Newbattle college and at also exactly the position where Luke said he was at the time he said he was there.

I’m sure RW felt that she was helping nail a vicious killer. Within days of the murder the public knew exactly how horrendous this crime had been and I’m sure it would not have taken too many of the ‘is it possible’ type questions frequently favoured by police who aren’t getting exactly what they want from a witness for RW to acquiesce to changes to their recollection.

“  all said the same thing, there was something off about him, up to no good, looking dubious, and confrontational. “ The original statements of those witnesses claimed none of the above. Why do you continue to spread disinformation?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 12:24:24 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?