Author Topic: Barry George revisited.  (Read 167586 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #540 on: April 28, 2019, 11:18:03 AM »
So it would appear, at least since the time the book Stand Against Injustice was published last year, Barry George is still being monitored under MAPPA.

According to his sister, he took a case against this decision but lost, having to pay all the costs himself.

“Under MAPPA, offenders are managed at one of 3 levels. These levels reflect the level of multi-agency co-operation required to implement the individual offender’s risk management plan effectively. Offenders may be moved up or down the levels to reflect changes in the level of risk that they present or the action required to manage their risk
• Level 1 – The agency that has the lead in supervising the offender applies the usual arrangements to manage the offender at this level. Relevant agencies, especially the police and probation, will usually exchange information about offenders between them. However, the agencies do not hold formal multi-agency meetings to discuss an offender’s case. Offenders will be managed at Level 1 in most cases.
• Level 2 – The risk management plans for these offenders require the active involvement of several agencies via regular multi-agency public protection meetings.
• Level 3 – As with offenders managed at Level 2, the active involvement of several agencies is required; however, the risks presented by offenders managed at this level are such that senior staff from the agencies involved are required to authorise the use of additional resources, such as specialised accommodation.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/751006/mappa-annual-report-2017-18.pdf

Michelle Diskin Bates, asks re MAPPA; “Why was he under one after said conviction had been quashed?

She claims; “Being under this MAPPA order has seriously affected Barry’s ability to access help for his PTSD. He would not attend anywhere for counselling because he was convinced they would have to tell the police everything he said, and he was afraid of the police, with good reason. 

These excuses are Red Flags.

Where is the evidence Barry George has PTSD, more importantly WHY has Barry George and his sister chosen to hide the facts of WHY he is still under MAPPA?

If they had nothing to hide they would be transparent.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 11:34:28 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #541 on: April 28, 2019, 12:32:43 PM »
“Under MAPPA, offenders are managed at one of 3 levels. These levels reflect the level of multi-agency co-operation required to implement the individual offender’s risk management plan effectively. Offenders may be moved up or down the levels to reflect changes in the level of risk that they present or the action required to manage their risk
• Level 1 – The agency that has the lead in supervising the offender applies the usual arrangements to manage the offender at this level. Relevant agencies, especially the police and probation, will usually exchange information about offenders between them. However, the agencies do not hold formal multi-agency meetings to discuss an offender’s case. Offenders will be managed at Level 1 in most cases.
• Level 2 – The risk management plans for these offenders require the active involvement of several agencies via regular multi-agency public protection meetings.
• Level 3 – As with offenders managed at Level 2, the active involvement of several agencies is required; however, the risks presented by offenders managed at this level are such that senior staff from the agencies involved are required to authorise the use of additional resources, such as specialised accommodation.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/751006/mappa-annual-report-2017-18.pdf

Michelle Diskin Bates, asks re MAPPA; “Why was he under one after said conviction had been quashed?

She claims; “Being under this MAPPA order has seriously affected Barry’s ability to access help for his PTSD. He would not attend anywhere for counselling because he was convinced they would have to tell the police everything he said, and he was afraid of the police, with good reason. 

These excuses are Red Flags.

Where is the evidence Barry George has PTSD, more importantly WHY has Barry George and his sister chosen to hide the facts of WHY he is still under MAPPA?

If they had nothing to hide they would be transparent.

Also according to Michelle Diskin Bates her brother was never registered as a sex offender. I imagine with legislation changes over the years things would be very different now for Barry George if he committed those offences today.

What a conundrum they have found themselves in, not dissimilar in my opinion, to the conundrum Simon Hall found himself in.

The problem as I see it;  Barry George and his sister are surrounded by individuals with differing agendas and it’s unlikely from my experiences these conundrums are being pointed out to them. It’s also unlikely they are even recognised due to the overwhelming and vulnerable situations of some of said individuals. Many of the so called experts in their field and other professionals won’t be asking the right questions either as many of them are too busy self promoting.

When you see past the smoke and mirrors of the past 20 year campaign for Barry George, you start to recognise the tell tale signs of deception.

I don’t suppose many people have questioned their authenticity because they too have been taken in by all the falsehoods.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 12:56:46 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #542 on: April 28, 2019, 12:58:46 PM »
I find this an extremely naive and gullible move by Michael Naughton https://www.bristol.ac.uk/law/news/2018/dr-michael-naughton-introduces-new-book.html

The need for due diligence isn’t needed solely whilst using Twitter. http://michaeljnaughton.com/?p=1542

Michael Naughton claims;

“Earlier this month (August 2017), a row erupted on my Twitter timeline of the like I have not previously witnessed amongst what might loosely be called the ‘prison reform community’, comprised of former prisoners, family members of currently serving and former prisoners, prison lawyers, students and academics.

But that’s not entirely true is it Dr Naughton? You were once very familiar with the fallings out of the varying ‘prison reform community’, comprised of former prisoners, family members of currently serving and former prisoners, prison lawyers, students and academics. and were once yourself very much caught up in it.

Remember this https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/jan/09/innocence-project-conviction-hilary-swank - the Higham burglary, the knife, Campbell Malone, Lynn Hall, Shaun Hall, Steffie Bon, Sandra Lean, Billy Middleton, Mike O’Brien, etc?

Barry George’s campaign has been blighted with similar such experiences but there has been a conscience attempt at covering up these rows, which are glaringly obvious when you compare and contrast Michelle Diskin Bates book with that of her uncle Mike’s and begin to read between the lines of the many newspaper articles and other mediums used to promote the fallacies.

Michael Naughton goes on:
“I immediately put his name into Google on my phone to very quickly find that he was convicted of a highly publicised and most pernicious and disturbing gendered crime against a young woman, the like of which would certainly make most (particularly women) want to steer clear of him altogether.

WHAT about Barry George’s highly publicised and proven crimes? Shall we sweep them under the carpet and pretend they never happened? What rehabilitation did he receive, if any? It might be worth researching the Barry George case and all the individuals involved because when you do, all is not as it seems and Michelle Diskin Bates narrative stops adding up. The case against her brother becomes much clearer and plausible.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 01:42:51 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #543 on: April 28, 2019, 01:52:27 PM »
“George's lawyers also brought in evidence from a neuropsychiatrist to dispute prosecution suggestions that he showed signs of "histrionics, paranoia and narcissism" and had a personality disorder.
Prof Michael Kopelman implied that George could not have been as calculating as alleged. "[He] described to me that he can be aware of what's going on around him but just can't respond," the professor said.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/01/jilldando.ukcrime2

This is the root of Barry George’s conundrum.

I’m not convinced by the opinions of the prosecution witnesses because of my experiences and the fact I know they can be flawed by varying factors.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 02:04:29 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #544 on: April 28, 2019, 02:14:43 PM »
2nd July 2001
“Key quotes from the trial of Barry George, who received an automatic life sentence at the Old Bailey today for the murder of TV presenter Jill Dando.

The case for the prosecution

Quotes from Orlando Pownall, a senior Treasury prosecuting counsel.

"[Police pieced together] compelling categories of circumstantial, forensic and scientific evidence, which, when taken together, prove that [George] was the man in Gowan Avenue who was responsible for killing Jill Dando."
Mr Pownall, prosecuting counsel, opening the case on Friday May 4 2001.

"We suggest that you can be sure he was there at 7am and later at 10am and was paying close attention to No 29 ... Why is he lying about his movements, if these identifications are correct and reliable? What reason did he have for being there? The crown suggest he was there hoping that Miss Dando would appear."
Friday May 4 2001

"[George has] obsessive aspects to his personality ƒ [including] ... exaggerated interest in well known figures... the army, weapons and the media."
Friday 4 May 2001

"She did not merely identify the defendant, but claimed the man did not have a goatee beard on April 26. She was right." Mr Pownall, Friday May 4 2001, on witness Theresa Normanton's evidence that she saw someone outside Ms Dando's home at 10am on the day of her murder.

"Why did he choose to take the longer route? The answer is plain. He had just shot Jill Dando and did not want to risk recognition."

Mr Pownall, Friday May 4 2001. George changed his alibi and said he had walked to a nearby community centre, taking an unusual route which avoided Gowan Avenue, Miss Dando's street.

"The defendant remained silent and stared at the floor. She repeated the question twice more and asked him to look at her. His lips moved as if he was thinking of an answer but none was forthcoming." Mr Pownall, Friday May 4 2001, on what happened after Lenita Bailey, who was told by George that the police were interested in him, asked George if he had done it.

"Whether he harboured a hidden grudge against [Miss Dando], believing her to have wronged him or figures he idolised, such as Freddie Mercury, is impossible to determine."
Friday May 4 2001

"His reaction to her death was out of all proportion to what one might expect from an individual who was not an admirer and would not have even recognised her. He visited shops and sought letters of condolence. He even suggested to a local council that they should consider a memorial."
Friday May 4 2001.

"They also found a photograph of the defendant outside the home address of Freddie Mercury, a Bulsara business card with the name Dando thereon, a torn section of a Dando police appeal poster."
Mr Pownall, Monday May 7 2001, on what police found in George's home.

"There were two copies - one torn - of the Metro newspaper referring to the death of Jill Dando."
Monday May 7 2001

"It is no coincidence that this defendant happens to have a particle in the inside pocket of his coat ... this aspect of the case provides compelling evidence of his guilt."
Mr Pownall, Tuesday May 8 2001, on evidence that firearms residue found in strands of Jill Dando's hair matched a particle recovered from the pocket of George's jacket.

"The gunman would have had an interest in firearms - so did the defendant. The gunman would have had an interest in altering or reactivating blank-firing guns - so did the defendant."
Tuesday May 8 2001

Witnesses
"There was no one else in the street. I had him in my view a minute. I paid attention to him because I wondered what he was doing."
Susan Mayes, Tuesday May 8 2001, a witness who said she saw George near Miss Dando's home on the day she was killed.

"It is just incredible that with one step everything changed. I was going about my business and anticipating the possibility of seeing Jill. To suddenly encounter such a violent scene was completely horrific. It took me a few seconds to realise it was Jill because of the way she looked. It was clear to me that she was dead."
Helen Doble, the friend of Miss Dando, who discovered her body, giving evidence on Friday May 11 2001.

"There is no particular reason why this particle can be related to the shooting of Miss Dando."
John Lloyd, a former Home Office forensic investigator, giving evidence on the firearm particle found in one of George's, Monday June 18 2001.

The case for the defence

Quotes from Michael Mansfield QC, the leading counsel for the defence.

"This defendant has lived in the area for a time and is very well known. He spent most of his time in the streets of Fulham. He was a local character."
Mr Mansfield, Tuesday May 8 2001, on the evidence of Susan Mayes who picked him out on a video identity parade.

"For Jill Dando to have been murdered by such precision shooting with a single muffled shot, it has to be the work of a professional assassin." Mr Mansfield, June 14 2001, told the court a Serbian assassin had killed Miss Dando and that it had all the "hallmark features" of a contract killing.

"The fundamental flaw in this argument is that there is no evidence, none at all, that prior to Jill Dando's murder this defendant has any particular interest in her."
June 14 2001
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jul/02/jilldando3
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 02:18:01 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #545 on: April 28, 2019, 02:51:32 PM »
4th May 2001
“Much of the prosecution case against Jill Dando murder suspect Barry George will focus on his movements around the time of the killing, the jury at his trial was told on Friday.
Orlando Pownall QC, prosecuting, told the Old Bailey that witness statements and other events had undermined Mr George's account of his whereabouts given to police.

Mr George, from Fulham, west London, pleads not guilty to the murder of 37-year-old Miss Dando on the doorstep of her home in Gowan Avenue, Fulham, on 26 April 1999.

Although Mr George told police he had not known anything about the television presenter, he allegedly told a journalist he had seen her on the BBC's Crimewatch UK programme.

Witnesses also claim to have seen him on the day of the murder, looking red-faced and agitated, said Mr Pownall.

What did the defendant have to fear?

Mr Pownall said that two days after the killing Mr George had tried to get a local disability centre to confirm what time he had visited on the day of the murder.

At that point he was not a suspect and the police had not even issued an e-fit of the man they were looking for, although press reports had mentioned a smartly-dressed man with dark hair.

Mr Pownall asked: "What did the defendant have to fear? Why did he feel impelled to seek verification of his movements.

"Were his actions merely an irrational response to a misguided belief that he might become a suspect, or were they the actions of a man who knew he was responsible and was doing his level best to create an alibi?"

The prosecution said Mr George was interviewed by a journalist retracing Miss Dando's route.

He said he gave the name Barry Bulsara and asked: "Who would want to do such a thing?"

"He said he used to see her on Crimewatch, she seemed a lovely lady," said Mr Pownall.

'Different account'

"If true this account was markedly different from what he told the police, when he claimed that he had never heard of Jill Dando before her death," he said.

On the day of the murder, three witnesses saw a man - the prosecution say it was Mr George - loitering in Gowan Avenue between 7am and 10am.

The prosecutor also described how staff at a taxi firm recalled Mr George being agitated, red-faced and sweating when he entered their office at about 12.55pm.

He was behaving in a strange manner and appeared agitated

Ramesh Paul, the manager of the taxi firm in Fulham Palace Road said the defendant asked for a taxi but was refused as he had no money.

Mr George allegedly remained in the office "with his back to the counter, gazing up and down the street".

"He was behaving in a strange manner and appeared agitated," said Mr Pownall.

He was later given a free lift after another customer called in asking to be picked up from the same street.

Four witnesses at Hammersmith and Fulham Action for the Disabled (Hafad) also recalled seeing Mr George on the day of the killing, Mr Pownall said.

"He was acting in a strange manner and appeared upset. He was casually dressed and wearing a yellow or ochre open necked shirt," he said.

From an early stage this defendant was at pains to verify what his movements were

Mr George allegedly told staff: "I don't have any appointment. I need help" before describing problems with his GP, solicitor and local housing department.

Mr Pownall said the evidence of staff members put the time of his visit between 11am and 2pm.

But Mr Pownall said he returned two days later, allegedly demanding verification of the timing of his earlier visit.

"He was threatening and intimidating in his manner. He insisted on knowing what time he had attended the centre," said Mr Pownall.

Mr George allegedly mentioned that the description published of the murderer of Miss Dando fitted him.

Mr Pownall said another witness Sally Mason, who had known Mr George for 15 years, asked him about Miss Dando's killing and he allegedly told her: "I was there you know."

"Ms Mason thought nothing of the remark and believed it was just another of his fantasies," said Mr Pownall.

The case continues.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1313509.stm
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #546 on: April 28, 2019, 02:59:24 PM »
This is the root of Barry George’s conundrum.

I’m not convinced by the opinions of the prosecution witnesses because of my experiences and the fact I know they can be flawed by varying factors.

Nor of his sisters sanctimonious and disingenuous narrative! 
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #547 on: April 28, 2019, 03:03:09 PM »
My own view of this case is that SY and the CPS should rightly be embarrassed by what went on.  George spent eight miserable years in prison for what was an appalling miscarriage of justice and when he was ultimately found NOT GUILTY at his retrial the State refused to pay him compensation. This was an insult to the man and an absolute disgrace.

George has had mental health issues since sustaining a head injury in his twenties, he was a bit of a dare devil back then. Laterally however, he involving himself in stalking which led to some really nasty conduct towards women which must be rightly deplored, his sister's attempts to play down those incidents was wrong IMO.

That doesn't in any way make him a murderer however, the jury at his retrial was right to find him not guilty IMO.

How did you form this opinion John?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #548 on: April 28, 2019, 03:11:23 PM »
As Jill's cousin said if Barry George was responsible all the stars had to align @ 45 mins in plus

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0003w40/the-murder-of-jill-dando

Worth watching this in contrast to the beeb interview https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yU7drIK1fVk

“I think it helped that our family were not based in London, we were based in the Westcountry which meant we were able to keep away from the media spotlight," Judith said.
"But it did in some ways at that time feel that Jill had been hijacked and her memory was hijacked by everything that was going on centrally in London and that is inevitable.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/jill-dandos-cousin-says-getting-2796090
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 03:15:05 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #549 on: April 28, 2019, 03:18:13 PM »
Yet Michelle Diskin Bates has been vying for the media spotlight alongside her brother since the moment she heard he’d been arrested?!

Maybe genetically they are both predisposed to delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence? Who knows, something to consider though imo.


Alternative facts’: A psychiatrist’s guide to twisted relationships to truth
“We can think of distortions of reality as falling along a continuum, ranging from mild to severe, based on how rigidly the belief is held and how impervious it is to factual information. On the milder end, we have what psychiatrists call over-valued ideas. These are very strongly held convictions that are at odds with what most people in the person’s culture believe, but which are not bizarre, incomprehensible or patently impossible. A passionately held belief that vaccinations cause autism might qualify as an over-valued idea: it’s not scientifically correct, but it’s not utterly beyond the realm of possibility.

On the severe end of the continuum are delusions. These are strongly held, completely inflexible beliefs that are not altered at all by factual information, and which are clearly false or impossible. Importantly, delusions are not explained by the person’s culture, religious beliefs or ethnicity. A patient who inflexibly believes that Vladimir Putin has personally implanted an electrode in his brain in order to control his thoughts would qualify as delusional. When the patient expresses this belief, he or she is not lying or trying to deceive the listener. It is a sincerely held belief, but still a falsehood.

Falsehoods of various kinds can be voiced by people with various neuropsychiatric disorders, but also by those who are perfectly “normal.” Within the range of normal falsehood are so-called false memories, which many of us experience quite often. For example, you are absolutely certain you sent that check to the power company, but in fact, you never did.

As social scientist Julia Shaw observes, false memories “have the same properties as any other memories, and are indistinguishable from memories of events that actually happened.” So when you insist to your spouse, “Of course I paid that electric bill!” you’re not lying – you are merely deceived by your own brain.

A much more serious type of false memory involves a process called confabulation: the spontaneous production of false memories, often of a very detailed nature. Some confabulated memories are mundane; others, quite bizarre. For example, the person may insist – and sincerely believe – that he had eggs Benedict at the Ritz for breakfast, even though this clearly wasn’t the case. Or, the person may insist she was abducted by terrorists and present a fairly elaborate account of the (fictional) ordeal. Confabulation is usually seen in the context of severe brain damage, such as may follow a stroke or the rupture of a blood vessel in the brain.

Lying as a default

Finally, there is falsification that many people would call pathological lying, and which goes by the extravagant scientific name of pseudologia fantastica (PF). Writing in the Psychiatric Annals, Drs. Rama Rao Gogeneni and Thomas Newmark list the following features of PF:

A marked tendency to lie, often as a defensive attempt to avoid consequences. The person may experience a “high” from this imaginative story-telling.
The lies are quite dazzling or fantastical, though they may contain truthful elements. Often, the lies may capture considerable public attention.
The lies tend to present the person in a positive light, and may be an expression of an underlying character trait, such as pathological narcissism. However, the lies in PF usually go beyond the more “believable” stories of persons with narcissistic traits.
Although the precise cause or causes of PF are not known, some data suggest abnormalities in the white matter of the brain – bundles of nerve fibers surrounded by an insulating sheath called myelin. On the other hand, the psychoanalyst Helene Deutsch argued that PF stems from psychological factors, such as the need to enhance one’s self-esteem, secure the admiration of others or to portray oneself as either a hero or a victim.

Who cares about facts anyway?

Of course, all of this presumes something like a consensus on what constitutes “reality” and “facts” and that most people have an interest in establishing the truth. But this presumption is looking increasingly doubtful, in the midst of what has come to be known as the “post-truth era.” Charles Lewis, the founder of the Center for Public Integrity, described ours as a period in which “up is down and down is up and everything is in question and nothing is real.”

Even more worrisome, the general public seems to have an appetite for falsehood. As writer Adam Kirsch recently argued, “more and more, people seem to want to be lied to.” The lie, Kirsch argues, is seductive: “It allows the liar and his audience to cooperate in changing the nature of reality itself, in a way that can appear almost magical.”
https://theconversation.com/alternative-facts-a-psychiatrists-guide-to-twisted-relationships-to-truth-72469

« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 03:31:08 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #550 on: April 28, 2019, 04:01:36 PM »
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 04:19:16 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #551 on: April 28, 2019, 04:31:12 PM »
In a nutshell - I don' think much of manipulative individuals who use underhanded tactics in a quite obvious attempt to muddy the waters Eleanor.

Are you familiar with the term "gas lighting?"

I've read many of Barry George's sisters projections in her so called fight to stand for justice but I no longer buy into it. It stopped the day Simon Hall confessed. The niggles I had with regards the personalities of some of those people I once associated with kept niggling away at me - bit like David Jessel said in his comment about "the confession."

I'm driven by truth and justice. I have no agenda. I've learned much since I was conned and I've had to get to the bottom of how and why I was conned.

I've also learned a lot about criminal law and the loopholes used by some in their attempts to give themselves an air of plausible deniability (which equates to a lack of accountability).

SO many more Red Flags http://cambridge105.co.uk/bookmark-09-03-2019/

I cannot get away from the fact that Michelle (nee Diskin) Bates apparent values appear to conflict with her behaviours, which in turn would be suggestive of moral duplicity?

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/features/2/14966/freedom-fighter

And more Red Flags - didn’t go down too well at the point she laughed. She may think she got away with it but her spin is exposed by the facts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06pn49r
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 05:01:03 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #552 on: April 28, 2019, 05:41:06 PM »
Barry George was initially assessed as showing signs of “histrionics, paranoia and narcissism, and had a personality disorder.

“George's lawyers also brought in evidence from a neuropsychiatrist to dispute prosecution suggestions that he showed signs of "histrionics, paranoia and narcissism" and had a personality disorder.
Prof Michael Kopelman implied that George could not have been as calculating as alleged. "[He] described to me that he can be aware of what's going on around him but just can't respond," the professor said.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/01/jilldando.ukcrime2

Much of the assessments carried out on Barry George would have meant relying on what he chose to tell those who were assessing him at the time. It was then up to them to form an opinion.

The FACT Barry George is still under MAPPA suggests all is not as it seems with regards his dangerousness to himself, others and the public.

Barry George’s uncle also disagreed with Dr Kopelman’s opinion.

I was quite annoyed when I read reports of Doctor Michael Kopelman’s medical opinion on Barry. It seemed to me that Barry’s inappropriate behaviour was being blamed on the overall family. I sent a protest to Jeremy Moore. In my opinion one is responsible for ones own actions and it is a cop out to try and blame ones bad behaviour on the family.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ltgorwROQfwC&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq=I+was+quite+annoyed+when+I+read+reports+of+Doctor+Michael+Kopelman+medical+opinion+on+Barry.+It+seemed+to+me+that+Barry’s+inappropriate+behaviour+was+being+blamed+on+the+overall+family.+I+sent+a+protest+to+Jeremy+Moore.+In+my+opinion+one+is+responsible+for+ones+own+actions+and+it+is+a+cop+out+to+try+and+blame+ones+bad+behaviour+on+the+family.&source=bl&ots=Osy97OF07B&sig=ACfU3U3jqccBJ2TwXiBfmR9OsH7PDOGUGA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiuh8W8nfPhAhUvQRUIHbYnCRgQ6AEwCnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=I%20was%20quite%20annoyed%20when%20I%20read%20reports%20of%20Doctor%20Michael%20Kopelman%20medical%20opinion%20on%20Barry.%20It%20seemed%20to%20me%20that%20Barry’s%20inappropriate%20behaviour%20was%20being%20blamed%20on%20the%20overall%20family.%20I%20sent%20a%20protest%20to%20Jeremy%20Moore.%20In%20my%20opinion%20one%20is%20responsible%20for%20ones%20own%20actions%20and%20it%20is%20a%20cop%20out%20to%20try%20and%20blame%20ones%20bad%20behaviour%20on%20the%20family.&f=false
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #553 on: April 29, 2019, 12:09:15 AM »
“Reality is the state of being real or actual, whereas an illusion is a mental misinterpretation of what is believed to be true. Illusions often prevent people from perceiving reality and objective truths, which consequently results in delusions, and in some cases, tragedies.

excerpt from the book “Stand Against Injustice by Michelle Diskin Bates
“Marriage followed two years later and we bought a house in Ballincollig, just around the corner from Pat’s family. Life seemed to be moving on a well-oiled track, going in the same direction as most other people’s lives. One by one, the children arrived: Carine in 1985, Shane in 1987 and Emma Jane in 1990. Pat and I found ourselves working together day by day but growing further apart and, looking around me, I could see lots of other marriages going the same way. Life became humdrum, tedious and unfulfilling.
It was my psychiatrist who’d suggested college to me during my time in hospital in 1997. “Why don’t you enrol in a course at CIT? Maybe you could study psychology, I believe you’d do well at that,” she informed me as she sat reading over my notes and scribbling additions to the page. This was one of our one to one sessions, but I still looked around me to see who she was addressing, because she couldn’t have meant me. I was a mental wreck, psychologically impaired. I’d signed myself into the psychiatric ward a few weeks ago when I felt like my mind was imploding. The young doctor who’d interviewed me to assess my condition had asked, “Michelle, are you suicidal?” Struggling up through the pain and fog, I thought for a moment before I answered, “No, but if I go home, I will die!” The poor man had looked a bit nonplussed at that, but he took it seriously and admitted me to a ward. It was about six weeks later, after some R& R and one to ones with this impressive psychiatrist, that I found myself being assessed before going home. Enrolling in college felt like a lifeline had been thrown to me. Someone highly educated and deemed worthy by dint of her expertise had viewed me and seen a real person, not the shadow I had become.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 12:31:07 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #554 on: April 29, 2019, 12:42:40 AM »
“Later in the evening we had a drink with David Perrin and James Cohen. We managed to persuade Michelle not to take part in a late night talk radio show. David threw an example of a question she might face if she took part. ‘Michelle, do you accept that a rapist can graduate to murder?’ That decided the matter for Michelle and she took Margaret home. Later I became a little disturbed by something that James said. He asked me what I thought of the madness in the family.

“On Tuesday November 5th I was tempted to run from East Acton station to Margaret’s as rockets and bangers exploded all around the place. It was Guy Fawkes Day, and it felt like a battle zone. Michelle was in Birmingham with MOJO presenting their submission to the CCRC. Margaret and I met her in HMP Whitemoor the next day. Barry was very upset with Michelle because of press reports and the CCRC submission. He said that it should have been left to his solicitor to make the submission, and he feared that his prospects might now have been damaged. He said that he thought the visit by Don Hale and Paddy Hill was a private visit and he felt betrayed that it had been reported. It was a difficult visit where Barry threatened to have Michelle jailed if she did not respect his views. He no longer wanted MOJO to be involved in his situation. In time he would threaten to have us all jailed, which probably was a reflection of his frustration at not being in control of the things which concerned him.

“In truth Don Hale being behind this deceit came as no surprise since all of this ghost-hunting had really got started because I had happened across the book authored by Don Hale, in which Don himself had explained that Terry had died in 2010. Quite how Don explains the interviews he’s been having with Terry since then, I have no idea. However it does go some way to expose the state British journalism is in, in the 21st Century. It turns out that Don Hale is the new David Icke
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-victim-law-ghost-writer.html

Producer James Cohen - Cutting Edge Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando?
http://collections-search.bfi.org.uk/web/Details/ChoiceFilmWorks/150659508

Reviews of 'Cutting Edge' documentary, 'Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando?', compiled by Don Hale.
Observer:

No one from the police showed up in Cutting Edge: Did Barry George Murder Jill Dando? The shooting of Dando has probably excited more media attention in this country than any other single crime in recent history - which means in history. We feel we know everything there is to know about the murder. And we're right, because there's so little that is known.

All of the tiny knowledge that exists was neatly assembled by Cutting Edge and placed next to the troubled figure of George, an epileptic fantasist with a low IQ and past convictions for indecent assault and attempted rape. They did not match up well. The forensic evidence was bordering on negligible, and it was also contaminated in police custody. The rest of the police case was built on the fact that George, the fantasist, lied to them; he was identified by a small minority of witnesses as being near the scene of the crime (he lived not far away); and he had an obsession with celebrities (as do most Heat readers), although not, apparently, with Dando.

The tone of the documentary was scrupulous, never allowing itself to become distracted by cheap attacks on the police enquiry. Its aim was simply to question the evidence. The one certainty it established was that in this case there was nothing approaching certainty. Dando's death is a mystery that is only slightly more baffling than the mystery of how a jury found George responsible for it.

Sunday Telegraph:

A more disturbing side to obsessive behaviour was documented in Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando? (C4, Mon). Was George just a confused loner in the wrong place with the right magazine clippings in his bedroom at the wrong time? It seemed so, from the evidence provided here by neighbours and psychiatrists.

This investigation was gripping stuff, and a far better exposure of the seedy underbelly of everyday TV life than When Steptoe Met Son (C4, Tues), a disappointing secret history of the sitcom's stars that might have seemed more revealing if a) it was 1962, and b) the thought of an ageing celebrity going to Hong Kong to have sex with teenage boys seemed at all out of the ordinary.

Irish Times:

If you were going to finger someone for a celebrity murder in which little progress had been made in a year and the public pressure for a result was unbearable, Barry George would be just the man. A mentally retarded fantasist with an interest in guns, he had a previous conviction for attempted rape and rolls of undeveloped photographs of women walking the street littered his house. He lived half a mile from Jill Dando. Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando? claimed that all that was needed was more evidence.

Although a British court recently upheld George's conviction, ruling that the evidence against him was compelling, the programme suggested the evidence was stretched very thinly indeed over the case.

The documentary highlighted perceived inconsistencies in the case, particularly the following. Questionable forensic analysis was accepted by the court. The professional nature of the killing did not indicate a suspect with severe epilepsy and an intellectual ability that placed him in Britain's lowest 1 per cent. The central witness testimony came from a woman who had seen the suspect for six seconds, 18 months before being asked to identify him. If you were to collate the reports of the 16 witnesses, the killer could be described as an olive- or white-skinned man, with black short or long wavy or curly hair. He is between 5 feet 8 inches and 6 feet in height and on the day of the killing was wearing a coat or suit, and was sporting a Trilby hat. Or not.

It was a documentary that lacked balance, but then balance has hardly been a motif of the case. The alternative theory - that Dando was killed by a Serbian assassin - does not play too well on the front page of the Sun. George is not a man the media is interested in standing up for. The replay of Trevor McDonald on the night he read the news of George's conviction for Dando's murder was instructive. He appeared to editorialise with every inflection. When he described George, this 40-year-old gun-fanatic loner obsessed with female celebrities, he seemed to do so with the disgust of a man taking a bite of raw meat.

Daily Mail:

EVERYONE feels a little queasy at the idea of another miscarriage of justice to add to the melancholy list of 'unsafe' convictions that have had to be righted in recent years.

Last night's Cutting Edge did its best to argue - relying on experts who were not concerned in the actual trial, and friends and relatives of the accused - that it could happen again in the case of Barry George, sentenced to life for the murder of TV presenter Jill Dando.

Only last month, the Court of Appeal upheld the outcome of the trial as 'compelling', while acknowledging that it had been a complex and difficult case.

This programme explored what it saw as weaknesses and inconsistencies in the prosecution's charge that George, a loner interested in guns and obsessed with celebrities, had indeed killed Ms Dando.

Other questions that could be asked, but were unexplored in this Cutting Edge, concern modern police detection methods.

There must be worries over the intensely bureaucratic approach now adopted in all high-profile murder cases, where the police assemble large numbers of desk-bound detectives to sift information, before returning (as in the George case) to evidence they already had in the earliest days of their investigation.

Whatever happened to oldfashioned detection - or does it only happen in TV cop dramas?

Guardian:

As rhetorically as Who Killed Simone Valentine?, Cutting Edge (Channel 4) asked Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando? Unlike Trail of Guilt, this Cutting Edge undermined one's faith in the police, effectively demolishing any notion that George's conviction for the murder of Dando is safe, that his guilt is beyond a reasonable doubt. Hardly "Don't have nightmares, do sleep well" television, it was, nevertheless a legitimate examination of Dando's murder. Sometimes, certainty is a luxury.

Independent:

The Appeal Court recently decided that the question Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando? could safely be filed alongside those proverbial queries about the toilet habits of bears and the religious affiliations of Popes. It is, in other words, a question expecting the answer "yes". For Channel 4, though, this was an interrogation of a more straightforward kind. In contrast to the BBC's Trail of Guilt - an unabashed celebration of the triumphs of modern police work - their documentary about the George conviction set out to make us re-examine that most dangerous of all verdicts - "He must have done it".

Barry George did make a very juicy suspect. He'd followed women around, had pictures of television presenters in his flat and had posed with a handgun - the photographic evidence of a long fascination with the SAS and the army. For a police force under pressure after a year of fruitless investigation, he must have looked as if he had a big red bow tied round him, particularly after a witness had placed him in the vicinity on the day of the crime. When forensic scientists discovered a tiny particle of firing residue in his pocket, it looked as if they had their man. George (left) obligingly behaved suspiciously when questioned - the only problem being that he behaved suspiciously even when he was buying a pint of milk or chewing gum - two activities which, according to those who knew him, he would have had some difficulty combining. "He's the sort of bloke, you throw him a tennis ball and he'll miss it," said one acquaintance, mocking the notion that he might have effectively carried out a daylight hit. This is a prejudiced judgement of course - but an adversarial judicial system depends on prejudice for its operation, some opposed and some in favour - and there wasn't a lot of the latter about when George was on trial for murder.

There were other worrying features about the evidence. The coat in which the incriminating single particle had been found had been unpacked and photographed before it was sent to the forensic labs, an elementary breach of basic practice. There was considerable confusion among the eyewitness accounts of the man seen at the time of the shooting, with several insisting that the suspect had shoulder -length hair, including one of the Crown's most important witnesses. George had always had short, cropped hair. Even the apparently sinister fact that he had collected pictures of Jill Dando looked more innocuous after you'd heard the details - out of 800 newspapers found in his flat, only eight contained pictures of Dando from before the murder. Given her ubiquity in the tabloids, it was something of an achievement to have so few.

It isn't impossible that he did it, even so. The incredulity of your neighbours is hardly a solid alibi, and people have murdered before and left less evidence behind. Shortly before her death, the Radio Times published a provocative cover photograph of Dando that could easily have swung her into the crosshairs of a psychotic looking for a target. What you really couldn't say any longer, however, was "beyond reasonable doubt".

The chief suspect for a series of rapes and murders in Rochdale also "looked a wrong 'un", according to the local newspaper editor. But in this case, covered in BBC1's Trail of Guilt, the police had more than intuition to go on. They had DNA evidence, bloody handprints, clothing fibres, shoe impressions, splashes of the victim's blood in the killer's home - everything, in fact, short of a video showing him committing the crime. Compared to this Matterhorn of incrimination, the evidence against Barry George couldn't even be described as a molehill
http://www.mojuk.org.uk/bulletins/cuttingedge.html
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 12:55:51 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation