A more recent case of an adopted son murdering his family.

[Nicholas]

Yet so many of them never learn?  Are they infatuated, lovestruck or just sad?

Denial also plays a large role

I was in denial after learning of the Zenith burglary omission to the point of confession

I recall when Simon Hall overdosed at the end of February 2013  (I posted about it on blue at the time)

However what I didn't ever post about was my denial of witnessing and recognising my own fears of his possible violent nature

He was in hospital for 4 days and only on the last day did he have a prison escort

He was accused or physically assaulting a female hospital security officer which led to the prison being called in to assist (remember also he was under MAPPA https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/multi-agency-public-protection-arrangements-mappa--2)

I excused this as being down to his O/D

I made all kinds of excuses for him in my mind and indeed publicly but his brother Shaun and a few others pointed out the error of my ways not long after on the blue forum

The truth was, after he assaulted me in the hospital also, I was terrified of him and went back into denial after listening to his excuses

So terrified of him I remember telling the women in the village (during a phone call I made to her from the hospital car park) the same women who had told me of the burglary omission, that I suspected he was extremely dangerous and did she think I was in denial and that he was guilty after all

She was once a member of this forum, not sure if she still, nor do I care,  but I know she had a lot to say about the case at one time and indeed the confession

[John]

John can I ask please how you would define a JB 'supporter'?  Do you see me as a 'supporter'?  And if so which category would you place me in:

- Infatuated?
- Lovestruck?
- Or just sad?

Sorry Holly, I wasn't aiming that comment at anyone in particular, I certainly had to intention to offend, my apologies if it sounded that way.

As to your question, I don't know you well enough to be qualified to answer.  I know you genuinely appear to believe Jeremy to be innocent.  I too once upon a time believed him to be wrongfully convicted because I couldn't bring myself to accept that he could have done such a dreadful deed.  Once I delved deeper though I came to understand his methods and motives.

[John]

I made all kinds of excuses for him in my mind and indeed publicly but his brother Shaun and a few others pointed out the error of my ways not long after on the blue forum

The truth was, after he assaulted me in the hospital also, I was terrified of him and went back into denial after listening to his excuses

So terrified of him I remember telling the women in the village (during a phone call I made to her from the hospital car park) the same women who had told me of the burglary omission, that I suspected he was extremely dangerous and did she think I was in denial and that he was guilty after all

She was once a member of this forum, not sure if she still, nor do I care,  but I know she had a lot to say about the case at one time and indeed the confession

I know who you mean and they were convinced that Simon was innocent.  Even after he confessed I don't think they could accept that they could be so badly misled.  It is really sad.

Without wanting to divert too much Stephanie, one thing I have never understood is why did Simon choose to come clean when he was on the verge of release?  He was latterly in an open prison and could smell freedom.  Do you think his conscience was his undoing?

[Nicholas]

I know who you mean and they were convinced that Simon was innocent.  Even after he confessed I don't think they could accept that they could be so badly misled.  It is really sad.

Roy Lamberts friend and colleague, and one of the officers involved in the original murder investigation, said to me; from the point at which Simon murdered, anyone who then came into contact with him was a victim. He was right.

[Nicholas]

Without wanting to divert too much Stephanie, one thing I have never understood is why did Simon choose to come clean when he was on the verge of release?  He was latterly in an open prison and could smell freedom.  Do you think his conscience was his undoing?

Did he have a conscience John

I don't think we'll ever know all the answers

Unless of course, those that knew him (adopted him, grew up with him) and were close to him back then ever decide to put pay to Simon's allegations of childhood abuse and speak out about their apparent knowledge of the Zenith break in

Was his suicide his coup de grace or his way of remaining in control till the end or both - I've no idea

Was his urge to harm others in his genes or brought about from his environment "growing up in that house" as he wrote before ending his life

[Nicholas]

What I do know however is that Jeremy Bamber is a classic psychopath who craves attention, be it good or bad, and is where he should be

[Nicholas]

Yet so many of them never learn?  Are they infatuated, lovestruck or just sad?

I do have a question mark in relation to one women involved with Simon Hall, even visiting him just days before he was found hanging in his cell.

I've recently come across some cards and letters she wrote to him and the contents of said items are bizarre (though there are other women and indeed men not dissimilar). Whether or not she fits in to one of the categories to which you refer, who knows. I hope she's managed to move on because she most definitely appeared infatuated to me.

Her writings appeared delusional. Remind you of anyone  &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

Sorry Holly, I wasn't aiming that comment at anyone in particular, I certainly had to intention to offend, my apologies if it sounded that way.

As to your question, I don't know you well enough to be qualified to answer.  I know you genuinely appear to believe Jeremy to be innocent.  I too once upon a time believed him to be wrongfully convicted because I couldn't bring myself to accept that he could have done such a dreadful deed.  Once I delved deeper though I came to understand his methods and motives.

Awww that's ok no offence taken. 

Well I did offer to buy you lunch if you were willing to take part in my video demo at the gun shop.

[Nicholas]

This guy was 14 when he murdered his adoptive parents and adopted brother

"Collier told 20/20 about his adoption: 'I honestly had abandonment issues my entire life. I never felt like I was part of anything. I was reminded that I was adopted a lot. I was told that my mother was a whore. You know, she's a horrible person, trailer trash, and blah blah blah'.

On the back porch of the house, police found the father, Hans Zimmer, shot five times. The mother, Sally Zimmer, had been stabbed to death and carried into a shed behind the house with a rosary placed on her body.l

But records show that although Peter refused psychiatric help - he did decide to get rich. While serving time for his family's murders - he declared his plan to claim his family's estate as the sole surviving heir.
The law fell in his favour and in 1987 he walked out of the school tasked with reforming juvenile offenders as a free man with a clean record, a trust fund and a new name - Jovan Collier.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1329137/Boy-killed-3-family-members-jailed-25-years-later-obsessive-stalking.html#ixzz4wQ2kDrZk

[Nicholas]

"There are some tragic cases of parents turning on and even abusing their adopted children. Of course, most adoptive parents are caring and deeply love their children, and thanks to a rigorous screening process cases of abuse are rare. Still, tales of neglect and even instances where children are “returned” to the adoption agencies persist.

The relationship between parent and child is always fraught with difficulty, and adoption adds another layer to an already tricky dynamic. Some very young people from seemingly perfectly stable and conventional backgrounds have inexplicably become murderers – often targeting their own families. And, in some very rare and unusual cases, adopted children have been known to turn on their family and cause them harm; sometimes even killing them.

The following are seven such instances, when adopted children turned on their family. Was it the fault of the child, or the parents, or just cruel fate? Did similar circumstances lead to these tragedies, or are they all simply distinct, tragic flukes?
http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/7-terrifying-cases-of-adopted-kids-turning-on-families/



"Lawrence J. Swartz killed both of his adoptive parents in 1984. He was seventeen years old.

The killings were so gruesome and so highly publicised that they became the inspiration for a book and movie. People became fascinated with the story. The murders may have been due to abuse experienced by Swartz prior to his adoption – he had spent years moving between foster homes – as well as to the strict nature of his new parents.

The couple was reportedly very religious and set many rules, which may have pushed Swartz over the edge. Swartz killed them both with a wood-splitting axe and steak knife. He served just 9 years in prison for his crimes.

[Nicholas]

"It Happened To Me: My Parents Adopted a Murderer

https://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/larry-swartz-murderer-adopted

[Nicholas]

Man who killed 5 in family faces execution

"Money was the apparent impetus. Aided by friend and roommate Jared Althaus, Coulson methodically planned his assault -- how he would arrive in the afternoon, before sister Robin and her husband had arrived, and disable them one by one with a stun gun. He would also take a pistol and a crowbar just in case. Once everyone was immobilized and gagged with duct tape, he would set fire to the place, hoping to make it look like a terrible accident. Just like that, he would be left as the sole surviving heir.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Man-who-killed-5-in-family-faces-execution-2073269.php

[Holly Goodhead]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-41892994

[adam]

Man who killed 5 in family faces execution

"Money was the apparent impetus. Aided by friend and roommate Jared Althaus, Coulson methodically planned his assault -- how he would arrive in the afternoon, before sister Robin and her husband had arrived, and disable them one by one with a stun gun. He would also take a pistol and a crowbar just in case. Once everyone was immobilized and gagged with duct tape, he would set fire to the place, hoping to make it look like a terrible accident. Just like that, he would be left as the sole surviving heir.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Man-who-killed-5-in-family-faces-execution-2073269.php

He was being optimistic. Unless the victims were totally burned to ashes & there was no sign of duct tape.

How did he immobilise them so they could not escape the fire. Tie them up ? Again there would be evidence after the fire.

Stun guns must be powerful, if the killer had the confidence to disable 5 adults with it.

[adam]

Didn't the Menendez brothers simply shoot their mother & father. Then ring the police ?

I suppose they could give each other alibis.