UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 04:42:14 PM

Title: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 04:42:14 PM
That’s what it says at the top of this forum now.   Any thoughts from members?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2020, 05:09:18 PM

Good one.  Personally, for the moment I am only heartily relieved that I don't live in Britain anymore.  They have all gone raving mad.

But Baden Powell is looking like a step too far.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 05:37:14 PM
That’s what it says at the top of this forum now.   Any thoughts from members?

My thoughts are....

Colonisation & slavery happened & people need to get over it, it's in the past & we can't change it.

Black people have long since had the same rights, freedom & opportunities as every other man or woman in this country.

Black Lives Matter are a bunch of domestic terrorists who hate the police.

They wilfully ignore the wider issue of black on black killings, instead focusing on the tiny minority of unarmed blacks killed by cops.

In the USA there has been arson, rioting, looting, dozens left dead, including a black police officer & 77 year old retired black cop (killed by a black looter).

Black Lives Matter caused this & they don't give a shit about any of it.

Unfortunately the rancid, hate fuelled cancer that is Black Lives Matter has spread all around the globe, including here in Britain where thugs have been rioting, vandalising & attacking the police, all in the name of social justice.

I never owned a slave & neither did my father or grandfather.

I am white & British, I was born that way, I can't change it & I have nothing to apologise for.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 05:52:40 PM
My thoughts are....

Colonisation & slavery happened & people need to get over it, it's in the past & we can't change it.

Black people have long since had the same rights, freedom & opportunities as every other man or woman in this country.

Black Lives Matter are a bunch of domestic terrorists who hate the police.

They wilfully ignore the wider issue of black on black killings, instead focusing on the tiny minority of unarmed blacks killed by cops.

In the USA there has been arson, rioting, looting, dozens left dead, including a black police officer & 77 year old retired black cop (killed by a black looter).

Black Lives Matter caused this & they don't give a shit about any of it.

Unfortunately the rancid, hate fuelled cancer that is Black Lives Matter has spread all around the globe, including here in Britain where thugs have been rioting, vandalising & attacking the police, all in the name of social justice.

I never owned a slave & neither did my father or grandfather.

I am white & British, I was born that way, I can't change it & I have nothing to apologise for.
Bloody hell.  You wrote something I largely agree with and you managed not to admire the Nazis into the bargain.  Well done!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 05:56:34 PM

I was warning on this forum about Black lives matter back in 2016/17.

They are a hate movement IMO.

There are protests planned in the capital again this weekend.

It will be interesting to see how many police they assault & war memorials they desecrate.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 06:17:19 PM
I was warning on this forum about Black lives matter back in 2016/17.

They are a hate movement IMO.

There are protests planned in the capital again this weekend.

It will be interesting to see how many police they assault & war memorials they desecrate.
Well Tommy and his gang of hooligans will be waiting for them so it could all get pretty nasty.  Did you see the attack on two police men/women in Hackney today?  Bloody disgraceful. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 06:20:03 PM
Also, this:

Thirty-one Labour MPs from ethnic-minority groups wrote a letter to the home secretary Priti Patel saying that “being a person of colour does not make you an authority on all forms of racism”.

In their letter the Labour MPs, including Valerie Vaz, Diane Abbott and Dawn Butler, urged Ms Patel to “reflect on your words and reconsider the impact it had” on black communities.

They said: “We write to you as Black Asian and Ethnic Minority Labour MPs to highlight our dismay at the way you used your heritage and experiences of racism to gaslight the very real racism faced by Black people and communities across the UK.

“We all have our personal stories, of the racism that we have faced, whether it has been being defined by the colour of our skin or the faith we choose to believe.

“Being a person of colour does not automatically make you an authority on all forms of racism.

“Structures of racism, hatred and inequality have many layers and therefore, whilst it is true, there are some experiences of racism that we all face, there are also some experiences of racism that we all do not face.”

What an effing cheek.  If David Lammy had given an impassioned speech in the HoC about the racism he’d encountered at school, there would have been much weeping and wailing on his behalf. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
Well Tommy and his gang of hooligans will be waiting for them so it could all get pretty nasty.  Did you see the attack on two police men/women in Hackney today?  Bloody disgraceful.

Yes. I've just seen it on the news.

People have been cooped up indoors for months with nothing to do & no where to go.

They are frustrated & angry & are now being incentivised by the BLM 'protests' to go out & hate on police.

I saw that the Football Lads Alliance (a bunch of football hooligans) plan to attend the capital & protect war memorials.

They are going to be hugely out numbered by an army of violent young black men, supported by a mass of left wing idiots who have swallowed the BLM bullshit & believe that police are ethnically cleansing by gunning down black people every time they see them.

This isn't going to end nicely that's for sure.

What I want to know is, how do us white people atone for the sins against blacks which we didn't commit?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 06:49:17 PM
Yes. I've just seen it on the news.

People have been cooped up indoors for months with nothing to do & no where to go.

They are frustrated & angry & are now being incentivised by the BLM 'protests' to go out & hate on police.

I saw that the Football Lads Alliance (a bunch of football hooligans) plan to attend the capital & protect war memorials.

They are going to be hugely out numbered by an army of violent young black men, supported by a mass of left wing idiots who have swallowed the BLM bullshit & believe that police are ethnically cleansing by gunning down black people every time they see them.

This isn't going to end nicely that's for sure.

What I want to know is, how do us white people atone for the sins against blacks which we didn't commit?
I’m not sure, perhaps we could make a start by replacing every single statue of a white person with statues of Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, George Floyd and Stormzy.  It might go some way towards making amends for our inherent racism and cruelty.   
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 07:12:48 PM
I’m not sure, perhaps we could make a start by replacing every single statue of a white person with statues of Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, George Floyd and Stormzy.  It might go some way towards making amends for our inherent racism and cruelty.

Indeed, George Floyd was drug addict with previous for armed robbery against a pregnant woman.

So obviously he deserved the state funeral he received & should be celebrated with a statue.

I'm not overly familiar with Stormzy as I've no interest in this Grime music nonsense.

But I understand he has rapped about smoking pot, niggas & f..king white bitches.

Nelson Mandela's ANC party put their fellow blacks in tyres, doused them in petrol & burned them to death.

So yep, he deserves a statue too.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 07:21:27 PM
Indeed, George Floyd was drug addict with previous for armed robbery against a pregnant woman.

So obviously he deserved the state funeral he received & should be celebrated with a statue.

I'm not overly familiar with Stormzy as I've no interest in this Grime music nonsense.

But I understand he has rapped about smoking pot, niggas & f....ing white bitches.

Nelson Mandela's ANC party put their fellow blacks in tyres, doused them in petrol & burned them to death.

So yep, he deserves a statue too.
I think that was Winnie Mandela and I don’t think Nelson agreed with that sort of thing.  But re: George Floyd - despite the huge coverage of his death I only found out the “trivial” detail of his armed robbery conviction yesterday.  Not that that excuses police brutality in any way but nor should dying at the hands of the police confer sainthood on a person
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
I think that was Winnie Mandela and I don’t think Nelson agreed with that sort of thing.  But re: George Floyd - despite the huge coverage of his death I only found out the “trivial” detail of his armed robbery conviction yesterday.  Not that that excuses police brutality in any way but nor should dying at the hands of the police confer sainthood on a person

I agree, George Floyd didn't deserve to die.

But I'm yet to see any evidence his killing was racially motivated.

In 2016 a man named Tony Timpa was killed in the same fashion by police (there is body camera footage of it if you care to look it up)....no protests, no riots, no outrage, no state funeral.......

.......because he was white.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 11, 2020, 07:54:47 PM
Yes. I've just seen it on the news.

People have been cooped up indoors for months with nothing to do & no where to go.

They are frustrated & angry & are now being incentivised by the BLM 'protests' to go out & hate on police.

I saw that the Football Lads Alliance (a bunch of football hooligans) plan to attend the capital & protect war memorials.

They are going to be hugely out numbered by an army of violent young black men, supported by a mass of left wing idiots who have swallowed the BLM bullshit & believe that police are ethnically cleansing by gunning down black people every time they see them.

This isn't going to end nicely that's for sure.

What I want to know is, how do us white people atone for the sins against blacks which we didn't commit?

Perhaps the Uk should have warning signs...please do not enter if you are offended by our history rather than allowing it to be changed by people and their descendants who have been welcomed here. Some of my ancestors died during the potato famine when british politicians stood by and did nothing..alllowing food to be exported from ireland. I dont expect all their statues to be destroyed. in  a strange way I agree with Farage....the taliban destroyed ancient statues that offended them and they were rightly criticised...I do see a connection.

This BLM movement is divisive and will actually cause racism....lets all just get on and live together peacefully and let the law deal with the US police. ....if we don't then our past will damage  our future.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 08:19:29 PM


I just watched the Farage interview, he pointed out that BLM are a far left group who want to de-fund & disband the police. (Which is absolutely true, you can read their manifesto online, where they also demand reparations for slavery, even though no black person alive today was ever a slave)

He was shouted down by the other guests, who resorted to personal attacks & accuse him of talking out of his backside.....they have obviously never read BLM's list of demands.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 08:27:35 PM

Farage on BLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Wi3YpgOpc
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Angelo222 on June 11, 2020, 08:34:28 PM
My thoughts are....

Colonisation & slavery happened & people need to get over it, it's in the past & we can't change it.

Black people have long since had the same rights, freedom & opportunities as every other man or woman in this country.

Black Lives Matter are a bunch of domestic terrorists who hate the police.

They wilfully ignore the wider issue of black on black killings, instead focusing on the tiny minority of unarmed blacks killed by cops.

In the USA there has been arson, rioting, looting, dozens left dead, including a black police officer & 77 year old retired black cop (killed by a black looter).

Black Lives Matter caused this & they don't give a shit about any of it.

Unfortunately the rancid, hate fuelled cancer that is Black Lives Matter has spread all around the globe, including here in Britain where thugs have been rioting, vandalising & attacking the police, all in the name of social justice.

I never owned a slave & neither did my father or grandfather.

I am white & British, I was born that way, I can't change it & I have nothing to apologise for.

I support those views, the GB BLM organisation is a criminal organisation imo and should be shut down now.

I think those numpties subscribing to BLM should read a few African history books. Slavery was a means to an end in Africa, if your tribe conquered another tribe you took the survivors as slaves and so it went on. Eventually the Africans realised that they could get more from the white man for their slaves and thus the international trade in slaves was born.

If blacks want to blame somebody for slavery I suggest they blame their own kin.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 08:40:09 PM
I support those views, the GB BLM organisation is a criminal organisation imo and should be shut down now.


It can't & won't be shut down because it has the support of most of liberal Britain & there would be cries of racism & riots, by people who don't realise what the organisations demands really are & are sucked in by the virtue signalling anti racism propaganda.


Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
I support those views, the GB BLM organisation is a criminal organisation imo and should be shut down now.

I think those numpties subscribing to BLM should read a few African history books. Slavery was a means to an end in Africa, if your tribe conquered another tribe you took the survivors as slaves and so it went on. Eventually the Africans realised that they could get more from the white man for their slaves and thus the international trade in slaves was born.

If blacks want to blame somebody for slavery I suggest they blame their own kin.
As well as the many European countries that built their wealth on the back of slaves. There is no doubt it was an abhorrent business, but then many things that were comsidered perfectly acceptable then are rightly considered abhorrent now.  Which of our historical figures pre-19th century did not approve of slavery, was not a racist, objected to public floggings and executions, didn’t treat women and children like shit, etc etc etc ?  Are we to disown our history and our historical figures because most don’t conform to our modern standards of morality and decency? 

As an aside my STBXH just told me that the last time he was in Edinburgh queueing at a shop till-point, he spoke to the friend who was with him about getting a present for his son and the  bloke in front of him turned round and yelled “f..k off back to England you c..t.”   Now if my STBXH had been black, and had been told to f..k off back to Africa that Scottish prick would be doing time in prison. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Admin on June 11, 2020, 09:49:38 PM
As well as the many European countries that built their wealth on the back of slaves. There is no doubt it was an abhorrent business, but then many things that were comsidered perfectly acceptable then are rightly considered abhorrent now.  Which of our historical figures pre-19th century did not approve of slavery, was not a racist, objected to public floggings and executions, didn’t treat women and children like shit, etc etc etc ?  Are we to disown our history and our historical figures because most don’t conform to our modern standards of morality and decency? 


A lady in Poole asked the Sky News reporter who was interviewing her this morning if the pyramids should be tumbled now as a symbol of oppression and slavery.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
A lady in Poole asked the Sky News reporter who was interviewing her this morning if the pyramids should be tumbled now as a symbol of oppression and slavery.
I say don’t be giving people ideas.  Although the pyramids were allegedly not built by slaves, but master craftsmen paid a wage. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Admin on June 11, 2020, 09:59:47 PM
I say don’t be giving people ideas.  Although the pyramids were allegedly not built by slaves, but master craftsmen paid a wage.

I believe the African slaves provided the muscle.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 11, 2020, 10:18:35 PM
I believe the African slaves provided the muscle.
I believe the heavy lifting was done by spaceships.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2020, 10:54:11 PM
As well as the many European countries that built their wealth on the back of slaves. There is no doubt it was an abhorrent business, but then many things that were comsidered perfectly acceptable then are rightly considered abhorrent now.  Which of our historical figures pre-19th century did not approve of slavery, was not a racist, objected to public floggings and executions, didn’t treat women and children like shit, etc etc etc ?  Are we to disown our history and our historical figures because most don’t conform to our modern standards of morality and decency? 

As an aside my STBXH just told me that the last time he was in Edinburgh queueing at a shop till-point, he spoke to the friend who was with him about getting a present for his son and the  bloke in front of him turned round and yelled “f..k off back to England you c..t.”   Now if my STBXH had been black, and had been told to f..k off back to Africa that Scottish prick would be doing time in prison.

Yes much the same was said to my Irish forebears who emigrated here.
No racism  but bigotry.
Some just love to have.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 01:15:39 AM
Here are some statistics from the U.S.A that Black Lives Matter supporters are either unaware of or choose to ignore.


Statistics Do Not Support The Claim Of ‘Systemic Police Racism’

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.


The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019.

By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/mac-donald-statistics-do-not-support-the-claim-of-systemic-police-racism?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 01:54:22 AM


These protests have nothing to do with racism

Black Lives Matter UK is pushing a debilitating, fact-free victim narrative.


INAYA FOLARIN IMAN

8th June 2020

In an already fractious social context, what has been perceived by some to be a racially motivated killing – the murder of George Floyd by a police officer in the US – has sparked protests and riots across America. These protests have spilled over into the UK and have amalgamated into a wider crusade against what is claimed to be ‘systemic’ racism and injustice.

But far from working to address social injustice and extreme inequality, the dominant narratives emerging from the Black Lives Matter (BLM) protests simply recycle and rehabilitate tired, divisive, unfounded, counterproductive and destructive arguments. These protests threaten to wind the clock back on race relations and social progress in the UK.

The UK BLM protests are not about racial injustice. It is one thing to march ‘in solidarity’ and to demand justice. But what we are seeing here is a concerted effort to construct an all-encompassing mythology about what it means to be black in the world today – one that essentialises the black experience to be one of racism, oppression and victimisation, irrespective of any facts to the contrary. This pseudo-radical movement robs people of their agency and manipulates the goodwill of others.

The attempt by these protesters to compare race relations in America to those in Britain is ridiculous and insulting. The two countries have vastly different histories and contexts. There is of course a history of racism here, but Britain today is a very different place to that of 30 or 40 years ago.

We cannot change the past, only our present and our future. By binding people down by their history, we are sending a deeply demoralising message to a young generation of black people in the UK, people who are living in a society that has made leaps and bounds when it comes to racial equality. Despite polls consistently showing high levels of trust in police and faith in British democracy among black people in the UK, and despite the current cabinet being among the most diverse ever, BLM activists are determined to argue that British society is riddled with racism.

There are genuine and legitimate social ills that are disproportionately plaguing people of black and minority-ethnic heritage – such as the grotesque levels of knife crime among youths in London, the disproportionate number of deaths from Covid-19, and ongoing unfair treatment in the immigration system. But if we are to address these complex issues, we need to look at a range of contributing factors. Racism no doubt plays a part in some of the disadvantages people face. But the kneejerk assumption that all racialised outcomes and disparities are a result of racism does a huge disservice to those who are most affected by these problems. Targeted and nuanced solutions get drowned out by blanket generalisations.

What’s more, the diversity of BAME voices on these issues is being erased. There are many different ideas of what progress, equality and fairness looks like, and how we could achieve those goals. But the one-dimensional narrative about white privilege, systemic racism and black victimhood is purported to be self-evidently true and indisputable.

Several misleading statistics have been used to paint a picture of the UK as a racist society. One example is deaths in police custody. In reality, as the BBC has noted, ‘over the past 10 years, 163 people have died in or following police custody in England and Wales’. Of the 163, 13 were black. In fact, over the past 10 years, ‘a white individual who has been arrested was about 25 per cent more likely to die in custody than a black individual who had been arrested’. No one should die unnecessarily in police custody. But as the figures show, this problem is hardly an example of an epidemic of systemic racism in policing in Britain.

Many BAME people have come from or are the children of recent immigrants to the UK. It takes time for things to change, to build intergenerational wealth, and to move up the social ladder. But this is happening for many, although it is happening at different rates for different groups (which further complicates the ‘systemic racism’ argument). An example of this is the achievements of British-Nigerian children. According to the Institute for Public Policy Research, the proportion of British-Nigerian pupils who gained 5 A*–C grades at GCSE (including maths and English) in 2010-11 was 21.8 percentage points higher than the England mean of 56.9 per cent, and much higher than the attainment of white British and British Jamaican children.

Another example of things getting better is representation in the media. A recent report by the Creative Diversity Network (CDN) found that BAME on-screen representation is at a ‘remarkable’ 23 per cent — this figure is actually higher than the BAME share of the British general population, which is estimated to be 14 per cent.

In society at large, the trends are positive. Interracial relationships have significantly increased over the past 10 years. Although this is not full proof that social and cultural boundaries are diminishing, it is a strong indication that they are beginning to. Far-right politics in the UK, meanwhile, has collapsed, and social-attitudes surveys consistently show that racial prejudice is in long-term decline in the UK.

There is much more that needs improving. But I fundamentally reject the overly negative characterisation of British society we are being presented with, and I begrudge being homogenised into a narrative that does not speak to my reality or my experience.

The goodwill and naivety of many is being exploited to push a toxic agenda. An agenda that, if taken to its logical conclusion, would produce a new form of racial prejudice. As we’ve seen, groups of white people at protests are kneeling, apologising and begging for forgiveness for actions they did not commit, in a depressing display of self-flagellation and white guilt. It’s embarrassing. And it does absolutely nothing to move society forward. No ideas or policies are being offered – there is just virtue-signalling, power games and a pathetic spectacle that will only breed resentment and lead to a further descent into social disorientation.

The last few days have been mentally exhausting, but also incredibly revealing. Anti-racism is no longer about fighting for the right of all people to be seen as individuals. It has become a corporation-endorsed movement about making meaningless gestures that do little to address complex issues. It has become a movement that refuses to look at the root of the problems it claims to care about.

If you want to change society, start with yourself, start at home. I do not need to be told that my life matters. I know that my life matters, and I do not define my self-worth by the validation of others. White people owe me nothing and I expect nothing from them, other than basic respect for me as a human being.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/08/these-protests-have-nothing-to-do-with-racism/
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 06:52:27 AM
I support those views, the GB BLM organisation is a criminal organisation imo and should be shut down now.

I think those numpties subscribing to BLM should read a few African history books. Slavery was a means to an end in Africa, if your tribe conquered another tribe you took the survivors as slaves and so it went on. Eventually the Africans realised that they could get more from the white man for their slaves and thus the international trade in slaves was born.

If blacks want to blame somebody for slavery I suggest they blame their own kin.

This is true.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
Thanks for the article Spam, she makes some excellent points.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 07:38:27 AM

Who was it who said that this debacle is causing Racism?

Jessica Mulroney, the best friend of the most famous mixed race person on The Planet is accused of Racism and fired from Television Shows.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 12:45:16 PM
Doesn’t it warm the cockles to see a group of white people bonding over a white writers view on racial politics.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 12:52:46 PM
Doesn’t it warm the cockles to see a group of white people bonding over a white writers view on racial politics.

Did you mean the article I shared?

If so, I think you'll find that Inaya Folarin Iman is very much black.
However, she did stand for the brexit party in the last election.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 02:21:12 PM

I just watched the Farage interview, he pointed out that BLM are a far left group who want to de-fund & disband the police. (Which is absolutely true, you can read their manifesto online, where they also demand reparations for slavery, even though no black person alive today was ever a slave)

He was shouted down by the other guests, who resorted to personal attacks & accuse him of talking out of his backside.....they have obviously never read BLM's list of demands.

The descendants  of slave owners were paid reparations for their loss of income right up until 2015 so why not the descendants of slaves ?

https://www.taxjustice.net/2020/06/09/slavery-compensation-uk-questions/
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
Did you mean the article I shared?

If so, I think you'll find that Inaya Folarin Iman is very much black.
However, she did stand for the brexit party in the last election.

There you go then.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 03:14:05 PM

These protests have nothing to do with racism

Black Lives Matter UK is pushing a debilitating, fact-free victim narrative.


INAYA FOLARIN IMAN

8th June 2020

In an already fractious social context, what has been perceived by some to be a racially motivated killing – the murder of George Floyd by a police officer in the US – has sparked protests and riots across America. These protests have spilled over into the UK and have amalgamated into a wider crusade against what is claimed to be ‘systemic’ racism and injustice.

But far from working to address social injustice and extreme inequality, the dominant narratives emerging from the Black Lives Matter (BLM) protests simply recycle and rehabilitate tired, divisive, unfounded, counterproductive and destructive arguments. These protests threaten to wind the clock back on race relations and social progress in the UK.

The UK BLM protests are not about racial injustice. It is one thing to march ‘in solidarity’ and to demand justice. But what we are seeing here is a concerted effort to construct an all-encompassing mythology about what it means to be black in the world today – one that essentialises the black experience to be one of racism, oppression and victimisation, irrespective of any facts to the contrary. This pseudo-radical movement robs people of their agency and manipulates the goodwill of others.

The attempt by these protesters to compare race relations in America to those in Britain is ridiculous and insulting. The two countries have vastly different histories and contexts. There is of course a history of racism here, but Britain today is a very different place to that of 30 or 40 years ago.

We cannot change the past, only our present and our future. By binding people down by their history, we are sending a deeply demoralising message to a young generation of black people in the UK, people who are living in a society that has made leaps and bounds when it comes to racial equality. Despite polls consistently showing high levels of trust in police and faith in British democracy among black people in the UK, and despite the current cabinet being among the most diverse ever, BLM activists are determined to argue that British society is riddled with racism.

There are genuine and legitimate social ills that are disproportionately plaguing people of black and minority-ethnic heritage – such as the grotesque levels of knife crime among youths in London, the disproportionate number of deaths from Covid-19, and ongoing unfair treatment in the immigration system. But if we are to address these complex issues, we need to look at a range of contributing factors. Racism no doubt plays a part in some of the disadvantages people face. But the kneejerk assumption that all racialised outcomes and disparities are a result of racism does a huge disservice to those who are most affected by these problems. Targeted and nuanced solutions get drowned out by blanket generalisations.

What’s more, the diversity of BAME voices on these issues is being erased. There are many different ideas of what progress, equality and fairness looks like, and how we could achieve those goals. But the one-dimensional narrative about white privilege, systemic racism and black victimhood is purported to be self-evidently true and indisputable.

Several misleading statistics have been used to paint a picture of the UK as a racist society. One example is deaths in police custody. In reality, as the BBC has noted, ‘over the past 10 years, 163 people have died in or following police custody in England and Wales’. Of the 163, 13 were black. In fact, over the past 10 years, ‘a white individual who has been arrested was about 25 per cent more likely to die in custody than a black individual who had been arrested’. No one should die unnecessarily in police custody. But as the figures show, this problem is hardly an example of an epidemic of systemic racism in policing in Britain.

Many BAME people have come from or are the children of recent immigrants to the UK. It takes time for things to change, to build intergenerational wealth, and to move up the social ladder. But this is happening for many, although it is happening at different rates for different groups (which further complicates the ‘systemic racism’ argument). An example of this is the achievements of British-Nigerian children. According to the Institute for Public Policy Research, the proportion of British-Nigerian pupils who gained 5 A*–C grades at GCSE (including maths and English) in 2010-11 was 21.8 percentage points higher than the England mean of 56.9 per cent, and much higher than the attainment of white British and British Jamaican children.

Another example of things getting better is representation in the media. A recent report by the Creative Diversity Network (CDN) found that BAME on-screen representation is at a ‘remarkable’ 23 per cent — this figure is actually higher than the BAME share of the British general population, which is estimated to be 14 per cent.

In society at large, the trends are positive. Interracial relationships have significantly increased over the past 10 years. Although this is not full proof that social and cultural boundaries are diminishing, it is a strong indication that they are beginning to. Far-right politics in the UK, meanwhile, has collapsed, and social-attitudes surveys consistently show that racial prejudice is in long-term decline in the UK.

There is much more that needs improving. But I fundamentally reject the overly negative characterisation of British society we are being presented with, and I begrudge being homogenised into a narrative that does not speak to my reality or my experience.

The goodwill and naivety of many is being exploited to push a toxic agenda. An agenda that, if taken to its logical conclusion, would produce a new form of racial prejudice. As we’ve seen, groups of white people at protests are kneeling, apologising and begging for forgiveness for actions they did not commit, in a depressing display of self-flagellation and white guilt. It’s embarrassing. And it does absolutely nothing to move society forward. No ideas or policies are being offered – there is just virtue-signalling, power games and a pathetic spectacle that will only breed resentment and lead to a further descent into social disorientation.

The last few days have been mentally exhausting, but also incredibly revealing. Anti-racism is no longer about fighting for the right of all people to be seen as individuals. It has become a corporation-endorsed movement about making meaningless gestures that do little to address complex issues. It has become a movement that refuses to look at the root of the problems it claims to care about.

If you want to change society, start with yourself, start at home. I do not need to be told that my life matters. I know that my life matters, and I do not define my self-worth by the validation of others. White people owe me nothing and I expect nothing from them, other than basic respect for me as a human being.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/08/these-protests-have-nothing-to-do-with-racism/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363



Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 03:33:06 PM
The descendants  of slave owners were paid reparations for their loss of income right up until 2015 so why not the descendants of slaves ?

https://www.taxjustice.net/2020/06/09/slavery-compensation-uk-questions/

No, the slave owners were paid in 1800 & whatever.
It took the government until 2015 to repay the loan they took.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
No, the slave owners were paid in 1800 & whatever.
It took the government until 2015 to repay the loan they took.

No matter what way you look at it we were still paying part of our taxes until 2015 to pay the slave owners.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
No matter what way you look at it we were still paying part of our taxes until 2015 to pay the slave owners.

No we weren't. We were paying off a loan.
And I want my money back
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 04:06:26 PM
Did you mean the article I shared?

If so, I think you'll find that Inaya Folarin Iman is very much black.
However, she did stand for the brexit party in the last election.
Faithlilly assumed the writer was white and assumes everyone who has commented on this thread is white.  What is that say about assuming making an ass out of you...?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 05:35:20 PM
No we weren't. We were paying off a loan.
And I want my money back

Frame it how you like but it doesn’t change the facts.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 05:51:23 PM
Frame it how you like but it doesn’t change the facts.

There's a huge difference between the government paying the ancestors of slave owners until 2015, which is what you claimed, & the reality which is the government having taken a loan & paid slave owners off back in 1835.

Read the very link you supplied.....

"It’s hard to believe but it was only in 2015 that, according to the Treasury, British taxpayers finished ‘paying off’ the debt which the British government incurred in order to compensate British slave owners in 1835 because of the abolition of slavery. Abolition meant their profiteering from human misery would (gradually) come to an end. Not a penny was paid to those who were enslaved and brutalised.

The British government borrowed £20 million to compensate slave owners, which amounted to a massive 40 percent of the Treasury’s annual income or about 5 percent of British GDP. The loan was one of the largest in history."


No slave owners ancestors were compensated by the government in 2014, for example, ....unless you know differently.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 06:12:00 PM

Read My Blog.  My youngest son was seriously impressed.  But more for the sake of Literature.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
There's a huge difference between the government paying the ancestors of slave owners until 2015, which is what you claimed, & the reality which is the government having taken a loan & paid slave owners off back in 1835.

Read the very link you supplied.....

"It’s hard to believe but it was only in 2015 that, according to the Treasury, British taxpayers finished ‘paying off’ the debt which the British government incurred in order to compensate British slave owners in 1835 because of the abolition of slavery. Abolition meant their profiteering from human misery would (gradually) come to an end. Not a penny was paid to those who were enslaved and brutalised.

The British government borrowed £20 million to compensate slave owners, which amounted to a massive 40 percent of the Treasury’s annual income or about 5 percent of British GDP. The loan was one of the largest in history."


No slave owners ancestors were compensated by the government in 2014, for example, ....unless you know differently.

I think you mean descendants. We were still paying the price with our taxes of reparations to slave owners in 2015...that it wasn’t directly to the slave owner’s descendants makes no difference. If we can afford to pay for reparations so long after slavery was abolished then we can afford to compensate the descendants of the victims of that slavery.

On another track.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/11/black-deaths-in-police-custody-the-tip-of-an-iceberg-of-racist-treatment
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 06:21:34 PM


Wow....blacks account for 8% of deaths in custody!

That means there's a hell of a lot of white people dying in custody.

We need to protest this.......White Lives Matter.......or might that be considered a little racist.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 06:27:13 PM

Wow....blacks account for 8% of deaths in custody!

That means there's a hell of a lot of white people dying in custody.

We need to protest this.......White Lives Matter.......or might that be considered a little racist.

Not just a little.  I have lost track of when my life mattered.  But I don't whinge about it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 06:52:23 PM

Wow....blacks account for 8% of deaths in custody!

That means there's a hell of a lot of white people dying in custody.

We need to protest this.......White Lives Matter.......or might that be considered a little racist.
What are they dying of?  Are they being killed in prison by their gaolers or the police?  Or other prisoners?  Or committing suicide?  Or dying because or a recently ingested drug overdose?  What?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 06:55:43 PM
Those who die in police custody in England and Wales are typically male, aged between 31 and 50, and from a White ethnic background. Other comparable Western countries for which data was found show a similar demographic profile.
 Those who die from suicide following police custody in England and Wales are also typically male, aged between 31 and 50, and from a White ethnic background. Individuals arrested for sexual offences are much more likely to die from an apparent suicide following police custody compared with those arrested for other offence types (12 times higher than the average). International evidence also suggests that people arrested for sex offences, particularly child sex offences, appear to have a higher risk of committing suicide following police custody.
 Natural causes have been the most common known cause of deaths in police custody in England and Wales between 2004/05 and 2014/15, accounting for 51 per cent of deaths in this period. Drugs and/or alcohol also featured as causes in around half of deaths (49%). An even higher proportion of those who died had an association with drugs or alcohol (82%)

How does this support the view that it is racism that is killing black people in police custody?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 06:59:12 PM
Ethnic background
Around 9 out of 10 (87% of 238) of those who died in police custody between 2004/05 and 2015/16 were from a White ethnic background. Those from a Black background, the next largest ethnic group, made up 6 per cent of deaths (14 out of 238).
Comparing data on deaths in police custody with notifiable arrests (2006/07 to 2015/16, the years for which arrest by ethnicity data are available) there was a slightly smaller proportion of people who died in police custody from a Black background than arrestees for notifiable offences (6% for deaths in police custody, 8% for arrests for which ethnic background was known
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 07:00:23 PM
Both the above quotes taken from this

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/655710/Deaths_in_police_custody_A_review_of_the_international_evidence.pdf
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 01:23:58 AM
And what have we learned from this little interlude ?

In the round it seems as if the olive are a law unto themselves. Despite hundreds of deaths in custody not one police officer has been convicted of a related crime since 1968.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 08:16:30 AM
So who here is hoping the statue of Churchill is destroyed in BLM riots?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Myster on June 13, 2020, 08:23:04 AM
So who here is hoping the statue of Churchill is destroyed in BLM riots?
There's supposed to be a curfew and Winnie has been boarded up...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8415101/BLM-activists-DEFY-Boris-Johnsons-calls-abandon-protests.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8415101/BLM-activists-DEFY-Boris-Johnsons-calls-abandon-protests.html)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gus897TIH4c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gus897TIH4c)
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 09:49:15 AM
There's supposed to be a curfew and Winnie has been boarded up...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8415101/BLM-activists-DEFY-Boris-Johnsons-calls-abandon-protests.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8415101/BLM-activists-DEFY-Boris-Johnsons-calls-abandon-protests.html)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gus897TIH4c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gus897TIH4c)
Boarding him up is basically giving up and giving in.  The coward’s way out.  Should he remain permanently boarded up?   It seems to be what some would prefer.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Myster on June 13, 2020, 10:02:18 AM
Boarding him up is basically giving up and giving in.  The coward’s way out.  Should he remain permanently boarded up?   It seems to be what some would prefer.
Of course not.  Once these crazy shouty hotheads have burned themselves out and normality restored, Churchill and the rest will hopefully see the light again.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 13, 2020, 10:57:56 AM
Of course not.  Once these crazy shouty hotheads have burned themselves out and normality restored, Churchill and the rest will hopefully see the light again.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. I think the liberal media & BLM will continuing pushing the 'everything white is racist' narrative for a long time to come.

I fully expect BLM protests to continue in America & probably here too, right up until November.
There's an election this year you see, & if you do a little research about BLM, you'll find they are closely aligned with the democrats. In fact, most of the money donated to BLM goes to the DNC.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 11:16:52 AM
I wouldn't be too sure of that. I think the liberal media & BLM will continuing pushing the 'everything white is racist' narrative for a long time to come.

I fully expect BLM protests to continue in America & probably here too, right up until November.
There's an election this year you see, & if you do a little research about BLM, you'll find they are closely aligned with the democrats. In fact, most of the money donated to BLM goes to the DNC.

Comes from....

If that’s true then let’s hope that the movement has the desired effect and kicks the hairy wotsit out of the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 13, 2020, 11:30:09 AM
Comes from....

If that’s true then let’s hope that the movement has the desired effect and kicks the hairy wotsit out of the Whitehouse.

Hang on. I take that back, according to fact check, BLM don't donate to the DNC.

But about Trump, I guess record low figures in Black unemployment is one good reason they shouldn't vote for him.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 01:31:25 PM
Hang on. I take that back, according to fact check, BLM don't donate to the DNC.

But about Trump, I guess record low figures in Black unemployment is one good reason they shouldn't vote for him.

Have you been drinking the Koolaid ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Of course not.  Once these crazy shouty hotheads have burned themselves out and normality restored, Churchill and the rest will hopefully see the light again.
It’s been mooted that it should be moved to a museum so it doesn’t offend black people.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
Did anyone see the ‘patriots’ ‘defending’ our statues ? Too funny. BLM cancelled their protest so the ‘patriots’, denied some black heads to kick in, just started fighting with each other.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 03:12:28 PM
These “anti-racists” are really tying themselves up in knots imo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53025407
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
Guess who said this ?

 "It may be that, unwittingly, they are inviting persecution - that they have been partly responsible for the antagonism from which they suffer," it said. "There is the feeling that the Jew is an incorrigible alien, that his first loyalty will always be towards his own race.”



Winston Churchill.....now imagine if it’d been Jeremy Corbyn.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 04:17:37 PM
My grandmother (who was born in the late 19th century, and who became a well-respected member of her community, through her selfless work helping the poor, the aged and the sick) was a racist who was suspicious of Jews and fearful of blacks.  I have now torn up all my pictures of her and knelt on broken glass as penance.  I hope I can be forgiven for having the DNA of this monster in my blood and am anxious to make amends in any way that I can.  Suggestions welcome.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 04:37:57 PM
For anyone interested, our resident left wing propagandist's quote attributed to Churchill about the Jews was not said or written by him, but by journalist Adam Marshall Diston, as you will be able to discover if you google it and steer clear of extreme left wing websites.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 05:16:54 PM
Absolutely shameful

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/man-pictured-urinating-pc-keith-palmers-memorial-protests/
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 05:26:43 PM
I love the smell of faux outrage in the afternoon.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: puglove on June 13, 2020, 06:17:30 PM
My grandmother (who was born in the late 19th century, and who became a well-respected member of her community, through her selfless work helping the poor, the aged and the sick) was a racist who was suspicious of Jews and fearful of blacks.  I have now torn up all my pictures of her and knelt on broken glass as penance.  I hope I can be forgiven for having the DNA of this monster in my blood and am anxious to make amends in any way that I can.  Suggestions welcome.

Ho ho!! I bet my Nan was worse than your Nan!!

God, she was a shocker.        *&^^&
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 06:23:05 PM
Ho ho!! I bet my Nan was worse than your Nan!!

God, she was a shocker.        *&^^&
I think it’s fair to say most nans of a certain age were.  Mine’s absolute classic line was “That Trevor McDonald speaks very good English...for a black man”. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 08:09:21 PM
Did anyone see the ‘patriots’ ‘defending’ our statues ? Too funny. BLM cancelled their protest so the ‘patriots’, denied some black heads to kick in, just started fighting with each other.

Don't be so surprised that killers will stand up killers and kill them.  People who love in glass houses and all that. you don't actually believe the white majority are going to have a minority of NEDS playing a victim card with no bloody evidence.

The left are creating a race war- guess who the losers will be?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 08:14:59 PM
Guess who said this ?

 "It may be that, unwittingly, they are inviting persecution - that they have been partly responsible for the antagonism from which they suffer," it said. "There is the feeling that the Jew is an incorrigible alien, that his first loyalty will always be towards his own race.”



Winston Churchill.....now imagine if it’d been Jeremy Corbyn.


It wasn't Churchill who wrote those words however,let us look at evidence  yes, look over there at Palestine...
AND Many millions of white people died to save the jews and blacks from the death camps.

Why not just say thank you and move along.

As a racist country according to the Marxist Stalinist movement, can we have all our billions of pounds the white people have been sending to lazy,murderous Africans back please...

Fancy a nice wee holiday in Johannaburgh..

ANyway I was thinking the black yobbos whos live don't matter to me at all- why would they, who attacked the white police are not racist right?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 09:21:08 PM
Don't be so surprised that killers will stand up killers and kill them.  People who love in glass houses and all that. you don't actually believe the white majority are going to have a minority of NEDS playing a victim card with no bloody evidence.

The left are creating a race war- guess who the losers will be?

Behave.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 09:24:47 PM

It wasn't Churchill who wrote those words however,let us look at evidence  yes, look over there at Palestine...
AND Many millions of white people died to save the jews and blacks from the death camps.

Why not just say thank you and move along.

As a racist country according to the Marxist Stalinist movement, can we have all our billions of pounds the white people have been sending to lazy,murderous Africans back please...

Fancy a nice wee holiday in Johannaburgh..

ANyway I was thinking the black yobbos whos live don't matter to me at all- why would they, who attacked the white police are not racist right?

Whether Churchill wrote those words is hotly debated....by his supporters of course.

The rest of your post is simply a stream of consciousness.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 09:38:23 PM
Whether Churchill wrote those words is hotly debated....by his supporters of course.

The rest of your post is simply a stream of consciousness.

It is an uncomfortable truth.  I do not 'support' Churchill. Unlike you and other self righteous left wing agitators -HE took on the fascist and WON.  If only for that reason his statue deserves to stay.

If this was a racist country why are so many Black and Asian involved in high level politics... know of any in Pakistan?   Africa? No  ans why would that be  well because it would be racist if there was white leaders is why.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 10:14:49 PM
Of course if it had been up to Corbyn we’d all be living under Nazi rule by now.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 12:31:48 AM
It is an uncomfortable truth.  I do not 'support' Churchill. Unlike you and other self righteous left wing agitators -HE took on the fascist and WON.  If only for that reason his statue deserves to stay.

If this was a racist country why are so many Black and Asian involved in high level politics... know of any in Pakistan?   Africa? No  ans why would that be  well because it would be racist if there was white leaders is why.

I’m not sure I called you a supporter of Churchill. I said supporters debate the quote. You merely believe what you believe.

As to Churchill’s statue, to protect it we must start being honest about his whole political history, rather than
cherrypicking the parts we like.

This country has a problem with racism. That is undoubtedly true.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 01:05:05 AM
Written in September 2019 but boy was Owen Jones right on the money.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/12/boris-johnson-pin-up-far-right-thugs-violence
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 09:09:48 AM
Great article

Matthew Syed
Sunday June 14 2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times
Pretty much all the most vivid memories of my childhood involve my dad. Handsome and charismatic, he came to the UK from Pakistan in 1961 to study law and met my mum, a red-haired girl from Wales. Both families were against the marriage, not least because of what it meant for the children. “They will be half-caste,” Mum’s aunt exclaimed, horrified. Thankfully (for me and my siblings), my parents rejected the advice, got hitched and are still together, more than 50 years later, living in the suburban semi in Reading where they have been since 1972; the house in which I grew up.

Dad has not been in the best of health, struggling with so many conditions we stopped keeping score. He has been in and out of hospital, most recently undergoing a heart operation. I was with him at the Royal Berkshire Hospital when he surfaced after the op and I often think about that conversation. We chatted about the Test match at Lords from the day before, then I put Yes Minister, his favourite programme, on the iPad. He was still a little groggy but he laughed — full belly laughs — at the antics of Jim Hacker and Sir Humphrey.

Dad has been on my mind a lot in recent days. As issues of empire and colonialism dominate the headlines, as statues become the locus for clashes, and as popular culture gets dragged into this tug of war, it is more important than ever to have a mature discourse about British history and race. This is worth doing not merely to enhance mutual understanding but to pull the rug from under extremists on both sides who are weaponising these issues for their own political ends.

It is sometimes difficult to convey the love that many immigrants have for our nation. To describe my father as a patriot is to be guilty of understatement. That is not to say that he is unaware of the atrocities this nation committed in the age of empire. As someone who grew up in India during the Raj (he left for Pakistan after partition), he knows only too well about the deadly famines, the Amritsar massacre and the crimes of the East India Company. Colonial atrocities trip off his tongue like Waterloo, Trafalgar or Dunkirk might for an indigenous Brit. He also speaks eloquently, sometimes painfully, of the racism he suffered in his new home.

You might ask: how can you admire a nation that committed so many crimes? How can you love a country in which you endured racism? It is these paradoxes, I think, that we need to more adequately understand if we are to make sense of our past, and chart a better future. As my dad put it when I went to see him last Sunday, the first time since lockdown (and the same day that the statue of Edward Colston was dragged through Bristol): “The British sometimes abused their power. But they also did many progressive things that I doubt any other nation would have done.”


Dad’s experience of racism cast a long shadow. A man with a keen brain and attitude, he worked his socks off as a civil servant and spent free time completing diplomas to expand his mind. His problem was that he couldn’t secure promotion, something that crushed him. I recall the attrition on his face, the sense that he was butting his head against an invisible obstacle. Eventually, he studied for an MSc, secured a job in academia and worked his way up to a professorship. This was a tribute to his drive, but it also meant travelling away, staying in student digs and missing large chunks of his children’s lives.

Why didn’t these experiences destroy his love for Britain? Why didn’t he become bitter, even resentful? The answer is, I think, both subtle and profound. As an immigrant, he was all too aware of the racism and sectarianism that existed in other nations. He grew up as a Shi’ite Muslim in a majority Hindu nation. His family lived in fear of persecution even before partition. He knew of the bloody atrocities that had been perpetrated in the name of religion throughout India’s history, from the 7th century onwards, persecution that continues, in various forms, to this day. He knew of the bubbling tensions between Sunnis and Shi’ites within Islam itself. A widely read person, he knew of apartheid in South Africa, Jim Crow laws in America, tribal conflict in sub-Saharan Africa. He was also painfully aware of the corruption and nepotism that has long been integral to kin-based societies (and remains so today). Black and Asian people may have faced barriers in the UK, but the nation was less sectarian and more meritocratic than almost any other.

The point is that if history is about anything, it is about context. Isn’t this what is so conspicuously missing in today’s debate? The Atlantic slave trade is a good example, an episode that is crucial not merely for understanding our past, but our present. I agree with those who say that schools should teach how Britain dominated that sordid industry, the horrors of the middle passage — the journey across the Atlantic from west Africa to the Americas or Caribbean — the mutilation and rape of innocent people, along with the scientific racism that provided the pseudo-moral justification for crimes of naked economic self-interest. I imagine I am not alone in having watched the television series Roots as a teenager before moving on to read the rich literature chronicling the slave experience, as well as the economic logic that underpinned the triangular trade from Africa to the Americas.

But shouldn’t we also ensure that students learn about the African chiefs responsible for selling the slaves to the European powers, along with the broader history of this barbaric practice, one that was perpetrated in Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Rome, Israel, Han China and Japan, as well as by the Aztecs, Maoris and more. Canon law accepted slavery, the Prophet Muhammad practised it, as did the Ottomans, who raided the west coast of Ireland and carried off English settlers to bondage and death. So, too, did the other European powers, who wanted to use the bounty of slave trading to usurp and destroy Britain itself. Moreover, shouldn’t students learn that while slavery is now outlawed in every nation, it continues to this day, not least in Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad and Sudan, as well as in a more modern form in the brothels and some nail bars of capitalist nations?

The same context is needed for colonialism. I watched Sathnam Sanghera’s sobering documentary on the 1919 massacre of Jallianwala Bagh, in which British forces opened fire on a peaceful gathering, mainly Sikhs, killing hundreds. These atrocities should be a part of a shared understanding of our history, along with the exploitation vividly chronicled by Shashi Tharoor in his book Inglorious Empire. But shouldn’t this also include the thesis that many British colonies prospered relative to those of France, Spain and Portugal because of the institutions and culture gained from Britain, not least the common law?

Perhaps the crucial point is that we should resist the temptation for British history to be exploited by the political extremes, something that will exacerbate polarisation. When MPs wrote to the government last week arguing that we need more black history in our schools, I found myself nodding. All youngsters would benefit from learning about the achievements of ethnic minority Britons, along with the injustices they faced. Likewise, I think most reasonable people will empathise with those offended by statues that memorialise slavers, and that a debate on this topic was long overdue (albeit one that should be decided through democracy rather than vandalism). But most will also find it astonishing that broadcasters are tying themselves up in knots as to whether to pull such television classics as Fawlty Towers in response to a relatively small group of activists, vocal on Twitter and the streets. This isn’t debate; it is intimidation.

Above all, we should remember that morality evolves. A hundred years ago, most people thought homosexuality was sinful. Five hundred years ago, most cultures believed slavery was justifiable — St Paul positioned it as part of God’s plan and it existed in the ideal cities discussed by Plato. This implies that many of our practices today will be regarded as primitive, even repugnant, by future generations (such as, perhaps, the killing of animals for meat). Does that mean that nothing we do today can be good? Does it mean we shouldn’t even try? Or does it mean that, whatever we do, however imperfect when judged by future standards, it is nevertheless possible to take society in a progressive direction?

If the latter is the case, and I believe it is, the same must hold for historic figures and, indeed, empires. As my father put it last week: “Britain is a great nation that also committed great crimes. That is the paradox that both sides need to grasp.”

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 10:34:13 AM
https://youtu.be/TpsA4zMtB8M
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 04:17:37 PM
Ho ho!! I bet my Nan was worse than your Nan!!

God, she was a shocker.        *&^^&

My Nan was Welsh so she was a lost cause.  My Grandad was a Quarter Master Sergeant in The Cold Stream Guards and we all know what they got up to.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
My Nan was Welsh so she was a lost cause.  My Grandad was a Quarter Master Sergeant in The Cold Stream Guards and we all know what they got up to.

I can’t ever remember my parents or grandparents ever uttering anything that could be considered racist....maybe that’s why I’ve grown up to be the tolerant person I am.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 06:04:33 PM
I can’t ever remember my parents or grandparents ever uttering anything that could be considered racist....maybe that’s why I’ve grown up to be the tolerant person I am.

No, nor can I.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
The most racist person I ever knew personally was the daughter of a high up Labour Party official.  She objected strenuously to her best friend dating a black guy.  I was shocked by her racist attitude which was back in the early 80s.  I wonder if she has subsequently seen the error of her ways?  She probably pretends she isn’t a racist anymore, but I wouldn’t know as I didnt keep in touch with her. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 06:58:29 PM
My daughter’s (black) boyfriend was one of this event’s organisers.  https://www.nordbayern.de/region/nuernberg/black-lives-matter-5000-menschen-demonstrieren-gegen-rassismus-1.10164113

We’ve had some interesting debates about the issue in the last couple of weeks.  We agree on alot of things, just not always on the means to the end. Still, their protest was peaceful for which I am very grateful. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Erngath on June 14, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
No, nor can I.
Not do I remember my.parents ever making a racist comment, nor a bigoted comment which was much more common here.

1962 Christmas my parents invited a Nigerian student who was studying at Glasgow University to share our Christmas celebration.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Angelo222 on June 14, 2020, 08:35:41 PM
Not do I remember my.parents ever making a racist comment, nor a bigoted comment which was much more common here.

1962 Christmas my parents invited a Nigerian student who was studying at Glasgow University to share our Christmas celebration.

The children's rhyme Eenie Meenie Manie Mo catch the Nigger by the toe was commonplace in Britain decades ago but has now been replaced by the name Tigger. Pathetic in my opinion.

Outside of places like London, Leeds, Peterborough, Bristol, Birmingham, Glasgow and other urban areas, blacks still get stared at because they are not indigenous to the UK and are a bit of an oddity.

It's all very well being diverse and welcoming as stated by the Muslim Chancellor this morning but not in my back yard matey.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Erngath on June 14, 2020, 09:03:14 PM
The children's rhyme Eenie Meenie Manie Mo catch the Nigger by the toe was commonplace in Britain decades ago but has now been replaced by the name Tigger. Pathetic in my opinion.

Outside of places like London, Leeds, Peterborough, Bristol, Birmingham, Glasgow and other urban areas, blacks still get stared at because they are not indigenous to the UK and are a bit of an oddity.

It's all very well being diverse and welcoming as stated by the Muslim Chancellor this morning but not in my back yard matey.

Is it just a matter of skin colour or do.you feel.as unwelcoming to all non English immigrants To your backyard?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2020, 09:31:04 PM
The children's rhyme Eenie Meenie Manie Mo catch the Nigger by the toe was commonplace in Britain decades ago but has now been replaced by the name Tigger. Pathetic in my opinion.

Outside of places like London, Leeds, Peterborough, Bristol, Birmingham, Glasgow and other urban areas, blacks still get stared at because they are not indigenous to the UK and are a bit of an oddity.

It's all very well being diverse and welcoming as stated by the Muslim Chancellor this morning but not in my back yard matey.

Afaik the Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, is Hindu.

Could you find anyone more British?  I think we need to be thankful we have such a talented Chancellor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi_Sunak
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 10:03:46 PM
The children's rhyme Eenie Meenie Manie Mo catch the Nigger by the toe was commonplace in Britain decades ago but has now been replaced by the name Tigger. Pathetic in my opinion.

Outside of places like London, Leeds, Peterborough, Bristol, Birmingham, Glasgow and other urban areas, blacks still get stared at because they are not indigenous to the UK and are a bit of an oddity.

It's all very well being diverse and welcoming as stated by the Muslim Chancellor this morning but not in my back yard matey.
What a shockingly racist (and inaccurate imo) post.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Angelo222 on June 15, 2020, 02:52:31 AM
Afaik the Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, is Hindu.

Could you find anyone more British?  I think we need to be thankful we have such a talented Chancellor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi_Sunak

I stand corrected Holly, he is Hindu.  A Hindu Chancellor and a Muslim Mayor of London, are there no talented Christians in politics these days?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Angelo222 on June 15, 2020, 02:53:32 AM
What a shockingly racist (and inaccurate imo) post.

I prefer the term Nationalist and by the way is there some part of my post that is factually incorrect or are you just sensitive to reality?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 07:25:15 AM
I prefer the term Nationalist and by the way is there some part of my post that is factually incorrect or are you just sensitive to reality?
You’ve already acknowledged one mistake and corrected it - Sunak is not a Muslim!  Also, I don’t live in a big city and can assure you that no one stares at members of our black community as if they are oddities (maybe 50 years ago, but times have changed, shame you haven’t and sorry you feel so hard done by about the change to the racist school ground chant - if you can’t see how extremely offensive it is then you are beyond hope imo).
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Erngath on June 15, 2020, 08:22:25 AM
I stand corrected Holly, he is Hindu.  A Hindu Chancellor and a Muslim Mayor of London, are there no talented Christians in politics these days?

Boris ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: mrswah on June 15, 2020, 09:41:28 AM
I stand corrected Holly, he is Hindu.  A Hindu Chancellor and a Muslim Mayor of London, are there no talented Christians in politics these days?

Of course there are, but why should it matter?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: mrswah on June 15, 2020, 09:46:21 AM
I can’t ever remember my parents or grandparents ever uttering anything that could be considered racist....maybe that’s why I’ve grown up to be the tolerant person I am.


In the 1950s, my grandparents owned a black cat called Nigger.  Even so, they weren't racist, in the sense of hating people from different backgrounds.  they were Jewish, and knew about the dangers of racism first hand.

They did believe, however, that Jews should only marry Jews. In the 21st century, I suppose that might be construed as "racist".  My daughter certainly thinks it is!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: barrier on June 15, 2020, 10:42:05 AM
I stand corrected Holly, he is Hindu.  A Hindu Chancellor and a Muslim Mayor of London, are there no talented Christians in politics these days?

Boris ?

Qualifying word "talented" .
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 04:44:38 PM
Boris ?
LOL,  I expect Angelo is more a Farage fan, though could he be described as a Christian? 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 05:03:32 PM

In the 1950s, my grandparents owned a black cat called Nigger.  Even so, they weren't racist, in the sense of hating people from different backgrounds.  they were Jewish, and knew about the dangers of racism first hand.

They did believe, however, that Jews should only marry Jews. In the 21st century, I suppose that might be construed as "racist".  My daughter certainly thinks it is!
By today’s standards I would say it is.  Imagine if White Christians were to demand the same of their own children.  I expect though that Muslims and even Blacks of African descent could get away with it, on religious, cultural or political grounds.  It’s the double standards that do get up some people’s noses.  There is a Labour MP trying to get misogyny made a hate crime, which should be interesting.  I will demand the removal of every statue of every man who was ever a pig to women, and as for rap lyrics referencing bitches and ‘ho’s - well I look forward to seeing them all banned forever.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 15, 2020, 05:11:58 PM
By today’s standards I would say it is.  Imagine if White Christians were to demand the same of their own children.  I expect though that Muslims and even Blacks of African descent could get away with it, on religious, cultural or political grounds.  It’s the double standards that do get up some people’s noses.  There is a Labour MP trying to get misogyny made a hate crime, which should be interesting.  I will demand the removal of every statue of every man who was ever a pig to women, and as for rap lyrics referencing bitches and ‘ho’s - well I look forward to seeing them all banned forever.

I notice the 'N' word is used frequently in rap music.

The word appears permissible exclusively for use by black people, oh, & Eminem, somehow he gets a free pass even though he's white.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 05:19:55 PM
I notice the 'N' word is used frequently in rap music.

The word appears permissible exclusively for use by black people, oh, & Eminem, somehow he gets a free pass even though he's white.
Does he use it?  Are you sure? I once used the word at the dinner table recently in the sentence “I can’t stand rap tracks that mention the word “nigger” as I find them quite uncomfortable to listen to” and was informed by my daughter that I am not allowed to speak that word in ANY context and that I was racist for saying what I said.  I’m not sure I’m even allowed to say the word in my head without then handing myself in to the Thought Police.  You can take political correctness too far IMO.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 15, 2020, 05:50:17 PM
Does he use it?  Are you sure? I once used the word at the dinner table recently in the sentence “I can’t stand rap tracks that mention the word “nigger” as I find them quite uncomfortable to listen to” and was informed by my daughter that I am not allowed to speak that word in ANY context and that I was racist for saying what I said.  I’m not sure I’m even allowed to say the word in my head without then handing myself in to the Thought Police.  You can take political correctness too far IMO.

He hasn't used it often, granted, it doesn't appear in any of his recorded albums pre-1988, but he has a pass for using it live when singing other rappers songs.

& when Kendrick Lamar invited a white girl on stage to sing one of his songs, she got cancelled for using his lyrics.

It's okay for blacks to use the 'N' word & sell their music to willing white idiots, but woe betide they then repeat the lyrics that were fed to them.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEcugkqcHO8&list=FLDSmwjqkbktnGfJFQpkXipA&index=17
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 06:10:13 PM
He hasn't used it often, granted, it doesn't appear in any of his recorded albums pre-1988, but he has a pass for using it live when singing other rappers songs.

& when Kendrick Lamar invited a white girl on stage to sing one of his songs, she got cancelled for using his lyrics.

It's okay for blacks to use the 'N' word & sell their music to willing white idiots, but woe betide they then repeat the lyrics that were fed to them.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEcugkqcHO8&list=FLDSmwjqkbktnGfJFQpkXipA&index=17
Yes, of course it’s OK for blacks to use the N word, though I rather wish they wouldn’t as it just sounds awful to these brainwashed ears.  I was once trolled online for defending that BB contestant who used the word when mucking about with a fellow contestant who was black, and who was subsequently publicly shamed and had her life destroyed by the media outrage.  I think it’s an ugly word when spoken by anyone, whites in particular, but should it be a hate crime to let it slip in a playful moment?  I don’t really think so.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: mrswah on June 15, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Does he use it?  Are you sure? I once used the word at the dinner table recently in the sentence “I can’t stand rap tracks that mention the word “nigger” as I find them quite uncomfortable to listen to” and was informed by my daughter that I am not allowed to speak that word in ANY context and that I was racist for saying what I said.  I’m not sure I’m even allowed to say the word in my head without then handing myself in to the Thought Police.  You can take political correctness too far IMO.

Talking about taking political correctness too far, around ten years ago, when I was still teaching, one of my 11 year old students told me I was racist because I referred to a pencil as being black!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 06:57:37 PM
Talking about taking political correctness too far, around ten years ago, when I was still teaching, one of my 11 year old students told me I was racist because I referred to a pencil as being black!
He was having a laugh presumably. I mean I think it’s still ok to refer to someone as being black otherwise Black Lives Matter would be looking for a new name.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 07:00:59 PM
He was having a laugh presumably. I mean I think it’s still ok to refer to someone as being black otherwise Black Lives Matter would be looking for a new name.

Weren't they referred to as Coloured in those days?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 07:24:04 PM
Weren't they referred to as Coloured in those days?
Coloured is racist.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 07:29:54 PM
Coloured is racist.

It didn't used to be.  I feel guilty if I say Black.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
It didn't used to be.  I feel guilty if I say Black.
I don’t know.  Best consult the resident arbiter of what is and is isn’t racist.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: mrswah on June 15, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
It didn't used to be.  I feel guilty if I say Black.

As far as I know, "Black" is the appropriate term these days, and "coloured" is deemed offensive-----but you are right, it never used to be!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 10:20:14 PM
As far as I know, "Black" is the appropriate term these days, and "coloured" is deemed offensive-----but you are right, it never used to be!

But most of them aren't black.  Or is that a racist remark?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 10:22:31 PM

I've only ever seen one person who was very nearly black and he was rivetingly good looking.  In fact quite beautiful.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 10:48:38 PM
I've only ever seen one person who was very nearly black and he was rivetingly good looking.  In fact quite beautiful.
my daughter’s boyfriend is sehr schwarz.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 10:56:03 PM
my daughter’s boyfriend is sehr schwarz.

Sorry, I can't find that on Google.  What does it mean?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 11:10:15 PM
Sorry, I can't find that on Google.  What does it mean?
very black.  He is also German.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Carana on June 16, 2020, 10:52:42 AM
The children's rhyme Eenie Meenie Manie Mo catch the Nigger by the toe was commonplace in Britain decades ago but has now been replaced by the name Tigger. Pathetic in my opinion.

(...)

This was a postcard in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_postcard#/media/File:%22Taken_from_death,_lynching_at_Russellville,_Logan_County,_Kentucky%22_(NBY_4084).jpg
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Carana on June 16, 2020, 11:07:17 AM
As far as I know, "Black" is the appropriate term these days, and "coloured" is deemed offensive-----but you are right, it never used to be!

I haven't come across that.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 16, 2020, 11:23:28 AM
I haven't come across that.

Yesterday, when I was young, Coloured was the accepted term.  Nowadays it is Black.

Personally, I only have a problem with They or Them.  But there is a limit to what you can do with The English Language.

No doubt some freak will come up with another word for They and Them sometime soon.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
Yesterday, when I was young, Coloured was the accepted term.  Nowadays it is Black.

Personally, I only have a problem with They or Them.  But there is a limit to what you can do with The English Language.

No doubt some freak will come up with another word for They and Them sometime soon.

They and them is my absolute pet hate.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: mrswah on June 16, 2020, 11:50:20 AM
I haven't come across that.

I only discovered it about 20 years ago when studying with the Open University.

I think BAME (Black and Ethnic Minority) is probably better still now!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 16, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
They and them is my absolute pet hate.

Why else can you do, Faith?  There is a difference even if only in skin colour.  Mixed Race people identify as Black.  Why do they do that?

My ancestors were Romanies, probably originating somewhere in India and my father was the spitting image of a Ghurka, many of whom I saw in Singapore.  Sheesh, there goes Daddy. 

And I am not exactly light skinned.  Many hours I spent in my youth lying in the sun.  And I looked like the real deal in a Sari which I so loved wearing.  This was of some pride to me.

I also lived in a Caravan for twelve years and brought up two children.  And was subjected to Racial Abuse during that time.  I put it down to downright ignorance.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: sadie on June 16, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
As far as I know, "Black" is the appropriate term these days, and "coloured" is deemed offensive-----but you are right, it never used to be!

One of my closest friends is black Jamaican.  She says that the correct, inoffensive, name is Afro-Carribean

Mind you, her A-C friends tell her that she is a Bounty Bar = chocolate on the outside and white inside.  I think that upset her

She is a lovely person and a great Ambassador for Afro-Carrib. people.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: G-Unit on June 16, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
One of my closest friends is black Jamaican.  She says that the correct, inoffensive, name is Afro-Carribean

Mind you, her A-C friends tell her that she is a Bounty Bar = chocolate on the outside and white inside.  I think that upset her

She is a lovely person and a great Ambassador for Afro-Carrib. people.

My daughters circle of friends in the 1980's included two girls with the same first name, which began with A. When chatting they used to say Black A or White A to identify who they were talking about. Neither girl objected.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Carana on June 16, 2020, 03:26:28 PM
I have friends and colleagues from all over the world and of all mainstream faiths.

Personally, I've found it really enriching. It has certainly expanded my worldview ever since I was a young kid.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Carana on June 16, 2020, 03:27:41 PM
I'm not sure I understand why the title of this forum has changed. Every country's history matters, doesn't it?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Carana on June 16, 2020, 03:32:23 PM
Hmm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-colonialism-africa-british-empire-slavery-a9564541.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 16, 2020, 04:33:46 PM
I'm not sure I understand why the title of this forum has changed. Every country's history matters, doesn't it?
That’s as bad as saying “All Lives Matter” in response to “Black Lives Matter”!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 06:09:17 PM
Hmm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-colonialism-africa-british-empire-slavery-a9564541.html

Dear oh dear.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 16, 2020, 06:18:28 PM
Dear oh dear.

He did have a point you know.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 16, 2020, 06:24:22 PM
He did have a point you know.
There’s a good programme on at the moment in which Michael Portillo does a train journey through Asia, and in oarticular down the Malay peninsula and to Singapore.  He meets up with a number of Malay folk none of who has a bad word to say about the British and their colonial past.  In fact they positively stress the benefits of British rule on their country. Of course, if they were white and saying the same thing they would be branded racists and publicly shamed.  Not all aspects of colonialism were good, but not all were bad either.  It’s a complex,issue which the simple minded can only deal with by describing the UK’s colonial past as evil beyond belief.  They should do a comparison with Belgium’s colonial activities if they want to see true evil.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 16, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
There’s a good programme on at the moment in which Michael Portillo does a train journey through Asia, and in oarticular down the Malay peninsula and to Singapore.  He meets up with a number of Malay folk none of who has a bad word to say about the British and their colonial past.  In fact they positively stress the benefits of British rule on their country. Of course, if they were white and saying the same thing they would be branded racists and publicly shamed.  Not all aspects of colonialism were good, but not all were bad either.  It’s a complex,issue which the simple minded can only deal with by describing the UK’s colonial past as evil beyond belief.  They should do a comparison with Belgium’s colonial activities if they want to see true evil.

Very true.  And it is a complex issue.  But a waste of time discussing it with people who don't want to acknowledge the good of it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Carana on June 16, 2020, 06:32:56 PM
I can't think of any Belgians I know who are particularly proud of their colonial past.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 16, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
I can't think of any Belgians I know who are particularly proud of their colonial past.
And nor should they be.  I am neither proud nor ashamed of Britain’s colonial past.  It is in the past, I had no say over it, why should I apologise for it?  It did a lot of good, it did alot of bad, do I wish it had never happened?  Well the world would certainly be a very different place if everyone had always stayed put and never ventured forth to conquer other lands.  I reckon we’d probably all still be living in the Dark Ages without that spirit of endavour, invention, conquest and exploitation.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
Very true.  And it is a complex issue.  But a waste of time discussing it with people who don't want to acknowledge the good of it.

Yes it is a complex issue and that’s why we should continue discussing it, the harm it has caused and what lessons can be learned.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 16, 2020, 09:31:33 PM
Yes it is a complex issue and that’s why we should continue discussing it, the harm it has caused and what lessons can be learned.

The British Raj are all dead.  And what was India is now a total mess.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 09:34:53 PM
Yes it is a complex issue and that’s why we should continue discussing it, the harm it has caused and what lessons can be learned.

Indeed, lets have the truth the whole truth and nothing but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7HyuLPWF9I

if we need to tear down statues I suggest this rat faced  terrorist should be top of the list.  Words from a white fascist? No!  Black south african!

Nelson global luvvie- Here he is singing about murdering whites...  Ladies and Gentlemen I give you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGzuyCtb_Ms

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 09:37:18 PM
Indeed, lets have the truth the whole truth and nothing but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7HyuLPWF9I

if we need to tear down statues I suggest this rat faced  terrorist should be top of the list.  Words from a white fascist? No!  Black south african!

Nelson global luvvie- Here he is singing about murdering whites...  Ladies and Gentlemen I give you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGzuyCtb_Ms

Do you have any videos showing what the authorities were doing to black South Africans at the time....just for balance you understand.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 09:41:17 PM
Being a nasty racist country you have to wonder why they flock here?  I don't see any of those offended by black lives not mattering  rushing to Africa... well unless they want to save the elephants...

They were stolen from AFRICA... we have planes to take you back home. Has slavery stopped?   No!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 09:44:58 PM
Do you have any videos showing what the authorities were doing to black South Africans at the time....just for balance you understand.

Oh we all know about and hated apartheid. But no one was handing the bad white guys a good run- they were deemed,nasty and  evil,, so As I read it  the demi God Mandela wasn't as saintly as he is remembered and worshiped at the time.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 09:47:33 PM
Being a nasty racist country you have to wonder why they flock here?  I don't see any of those offended by black lives not mattering  rushing to Africa... well unless they want to save the elephants...

They were stolen from AFRICA... we have planes to take you back home. Has slavery stopped?   No!

No doubt those stolen from Africa have been citizens of this nation for longer than some of our families.

PS no videos then ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 09:54:43 PM
No doubt those stolen from Africa have been citizens of this nation for longer than some of our families.

PS no videos then ?


SO why are they whinging about it then?

The person on the video gives an honest account using stats hwich is referenced. He has no love for apartheid or the White regime- he makes comparisons. but he offers- if you watch the video- the difference between Mandela rule and White rule.

So the video addresses these issues.   You and I were not born during apartied, we are not qualified to give expert analysis, many black who did and have  survived are experts, they have no voice.



Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 10:00:17 PM

SO why are they whinging about it then?

The person on the video gives an honest account using stats hwich is referenced. He has no love for apartheid or the White regime- he makes comparisons. but he offers- if you watch the video- the difference between Mandela rule and White rule.

So the video addresses these issues.   You and I were not born during apartied, we are not qualified to give expert analysis, many black who did and have  survived are experts, they have no voice.

One opinion from one black South African ? You’re not looking for the truth, you’re looking for justification for your biases.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 10:04:49 PM
One opinion from one black South African ? You’re not looking for the truth, you’re looking for justification for your biases.

The person  in the video is not a black African. My Brother in law ism and he knows more about his history that you do!

 I have no bias- I do not envy, or covet other peoples lives or property.  As you and your ilk seem to do.

There  are many successful black British men/women- how can you possible claim they are victims- that is a slur on their talent!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 10:12:17 PM
The person  in the video is not a black African. My Brother in law ism and he knows more about his history that you do!

 I have no bias- I do not envy, or covet other peoples lives or property.  As you and your ilk seem to do.

There  are many successful black British men/women- how can you possible claim they are victims- that is a slur on their talent!

I thought you said the man on the video was a black South African...if not apologies....but I really couldn’t believe that someone would post a video of a white South African critiquing Nelson Mandela and not know that bias was involved.

BTW how do you know that I’m not black ?

And I didn’t mention the word victims.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 10:29:43 PM
I thought you said the man on the video was a black South African...if not apologies....but I really couldn’t believe that someone would post a video of a white South African critiquing Nelson Mandela and not know that bias was involved.

BTW how do you know that I’m not black ?

And I didn’t mention the word victims.


Faith. I do not know what colour  of skin anyone is on this forum and I don't give it a thought.  I add to the debates on this forum AND my opinion would not falter if you were black /white/ Chinese.

I agree with you on some issues and not on others - your skin colour wouldn't make me change my opinions on subjects we BOTH find interesting.

I hate injustice  in all forms and I am known to stand up for many issues which affect vulnerable people- Ok I do admit mainly women and children, however only because they are mostly  real victims  in all races and cultures.

That doesn't make me a goody two shoes, I have many faults, racism isn't one of them.neither is being a right wing fascist- But those names don't bother me- I really couldn't care less about them being banded about by the ignorant.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 10:49:42 PM

Faith. I do not know what colour  of skin anyone is on this forum and I don't give it a thought.  I add to the debates on this forum AND my opinion would not falter if you were black /white/ Chinese.

I agree with you on some issues and not on others - your skin colour wouldn't make me change my opinions on subjects we BOTH find interesting.

I hate injustice  in all forms and I am known to stand up for many issues which affect vulnerable people- Ok I do admit mainly women and children, however only because they are mostly  real victims  in all races and cultures.

That doesn't make me a goody two shoes, I have many faults, racism isn't one of them.neither is being a right wing fascist- But those names don't bother me- I really couldn't care less about them being banded about by the ignorant.

I’m not going to get pulled into a unnecessary argument with you MTI but I will say this...you seem to be very sensitive about being called a racist and a right wing facist...it’s almost as if you have to get your defence in first, as if you’re used to being called those names.....if I was you and stop and ask myself why ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2020, 11:12:51 PM
I’m not going to get pulled into a unnecessary argument with you MTI but I will say this...you seem to be very sensitive about being called a racist and a right wing facist...it’s almost as if you have to get your defence in first, as if you’re used to being called those names.....if I was you and stop and ask myself why ?

We don't need to have a bun fight Faith. I respect your view I just don't share it.  Yes I have been called racist and right wing fascist, ON here!  I spoke up about cultures which have caused harm to many women and children- me hatin muzlims and all that cr@p.  I don't need to stop and ask my self why I can easily answer that:
 racist= speaks up against Stalinist left wing wokers- Sees them for what they really are
Fascist=speaks up against Stalinist left wing wokers - call them out for the lies they tell.

Oh, just to verify. it is ONLY left wing and far left wing who seem to have those words held on every banner and badge ... ordinary folks just don't give a f...

I have pointed out on many occasions it isn't only white people who  ARE racist  look at Black life matters ha  ters and the caste system in India.. it is all over the world so the virtual signalling just isn't worth any points any more.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2020, 11:32:14 PM
We don't need to have a bun fight Faith. I respect your view I just don't share it.  Yes I have been called racist and right wing fascist, ON here!  I spoke up about cultures which have caused harm to many women and children- me hatin muzlims and all that cr@p.  I don't need to stop and ask my self why I can easily answer that:
 racist= speaks up against Stalinist left wing wokers- Sees them for what they really are
Fascist=speaks up against Stalinist left wing wokers - call them out for the lies they tell.

Oh, just to verify. it is ONLY left wing and far left wing who seem to have those words held on every banner and badge ... ordinary folks just don't give a f...

I have pointed out on many occasions it isn't only white people who  ARE racist  look at Black life matters ha  ters and the caste system in India.. it is all over the world so the virtual signalling just isn't worth any points any more.

What do you think a Stalinist is ?

Just to clarify...do you hate all Muslims or merely the ones you judge subjugate women ?

And where did I say that all racists were white ? And yes ordinary people do give a f*ck as we have seen by the numbers at BLM marches throughout the country....or are you suggesting that they are all Stalinists ?

BTW I think you meant virtue signalling.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 17, 2020, 10:15:12 PM
What do you think a Stalinist is ?

Just to clarify...do you hate all Muslims or merely the ones you judge subjugate women ?

And where did I say that all racists were white ? And yes ordinary people do give a f*ck as we have seen by the numbers at BLM marches throughout the country....or are you suggesting that they are all Stalinists ?

BTW I think you meant virtue signalling.

a Stalinist is- just what it says on the tin.  read all about him here.
many left wing pretend to be for the workers but that is a known falsehood.  The party the party workers  all that shoite.



'And where did I say that all racists were white'  known tactic Faith- where have you ever condemned  anyone  who are a threat too  white indigenous folks of this country who did not share your point of view?

DiD I hear you say anything about the black yoofs throwing bottles at horses and attacking white police?  NO! was this racist attacks? Will you go and protest about white lives matter too- to show your solidarity to your racist badge you wear?

AND did you mention the George (omg what a vile b........ to have as a 'hero') his victim, the pregnant woman who was held at knife point by that animal? Nope not a word about her or her unborn baby.

The population of the UK is over 69 million  a few hundred went on the rampage  on the presence of helping blacks get equal rights  to which they already have!  Says it all really.

Not one of those protesters were brought here in chains.  Will they go to Italy and pull down their ancient buildings  where Christians were eaten by lions?

You and your cohorts need to be careful the SILENT majority are watching!

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 11:00:07 PM
a Stalinist is- just what it says on the tin.  read all about him here.
many left wing pretend to be for the workers but that is a known falsehood.  The party the party workers  all that shoite.



'And where did I say that all racists were white'  known tactic Faith- where have you ever condemned  anyone  who are a threat too  white indigenous folks of this country who did not share your point of view?

DiD I hear you say anything about the black yoofs throwing bottles at horses and attacking white police?  NO! was this racist attacks? Will you go and protest about white lives matter too- to show your solidarity to your racist badge you wear?

AND did you mention the George (omg what a vile b........ to have as a 'hero') his victim, the pregnant woman who was held at knife point by that animal? Nope not a word about her or her unborn baby.

The population of the UK is over 69 million  a few hundred went on the rampage  on the presence of helping blacks get equal rights  to which they already have!  Says it all really.

Not one of those protesters were brought here in chains.  Will they go to Italy and pull down their ancient buildings  where Christians were eaten by lions?

You and your cohorts need to be careful the SILENT majority are watching!

Admit it MTI, you really don’t know what a Stalinist is. You’ve heard the term mentioned in connection with the left on some debate or Facebook page and have run with it.

Second point, outside the narrow framework of these threads you have no idea what I think about anything.

Any form of violence is reprehensible no matter what the colour of your skin but more importantly kills the message you are trying to send. I have campaigned many times for white men imprisoned or killed by the police. For me it’s always about justice, never race. Your opinion appears to be different.

As to George Floyd, please do your research, he was sentenced to five years in prison for his involvement in an armed robbery in 2007.  The woman robbed, Aracely Henriquez, was injured by another man, and there’s no evidence she was pregnant at the time of the incident.

The marches aren’t about equal rights but equal treatment.

This always makes me laugh....if the majority is silent how do you know what they are saying ?

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 11:59:04 AM


In the US the marches, protests, violence, rioting & looting are about hating the police & wanting them de-funded.

In the UK I'm not really sure what they are protesting for, since we already have equal rights.

Just a bunch of virtue signalling bandwagon jumpers really.



Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 12:07:04 PM

In the US the marches, protests, violence, rioting & looting are about hating the police & wanting them de-funded.

In the UK I'm not really sure what they are protesting for, since we already have equal rights.

Just a bunch of virtue signalling bandwagon jumpers really.

Not equal , equal treatment.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
Not equal , equal treatment.

In what way do blacks not receive equal treatment, IYO ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 01:50:01 PM
In what way do blacks not receive equal treatment, IYO ?

I have a nasty suspicion that some Black People don't want equal treatment.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
I have a nasty suspicion that some Black People don't want equal treatment.

What gets me is the claim of systemic racism.

There are black people here & in the US in any occupation you care to mention, police, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc etc.

America had a black president for 8 long years.

Only 13% of the US population are black, that means a hell of a lot of white people voted for a black president......... twice.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
In what way do blacks not receive equal treatment, IYO ?

It’s not my opinion...have you read the Lammy report ?

A group of white people discussing how black people have the temerity to complain when treated badly because of their colour ! It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

Reading most of the comments in this thread actually makes me ashamed to be British.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 02:17:57 PM
It’s not my opinion...have you read the Lammy report ?

A group of white people discussing how black people have the temerity to complain when treated badly because of their colour ! It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

Reading most of the comments in this thread actually makes me ashamed to be British.

No I haven't read the Lammy report.

I'm guessing he bitches about blacks in London being targeted disproportionately in stop & search.

Is that about right?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 02:24:56 PM


I just read this brief snippet of what Lammy has to say in the Guardian...

"Minority ethnic children make up a growing proportion of those offending for the first time, reoffending, and serving custodial sentences. Today 41% of under-18s in custody are from minority backgrounds, compared with 25% a decade ago. Young black people are now nine times more likely to be in youth custody than young white people."

Could it possibly be, not that all police are racist but that BAME's are now committing a disproportionate amount of crime?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 18, 2020, 04:27:14 PM
Admit it MTI, you really don’t know what a Stalinist is. You’ve heard the term mentioned in connection with the left on some debate or Facebook page and have run with it.

Second point, outside the narrow framework of these threads you have no idea what I think about anything.

Any form of violence is reprehensible no matter what the colour of your skin but more importantly kills the message you are trying to send. I have campaigned many times for white men imprisoned or killed by the police. For me it’s always about justice, never race. Your opinion appears to be different.

As to George Floyd, please do your research, he was sentenced to five years in prison for his involvement in an armed robbery in 2007.  The woman robbed, Aracely Henriquez, was injured by another man, and there’s no evidence she was pregnant at the time of the incident.

The marches aren’t about equal rights but equal treatment.

This always makes me laugh....if the majority is silent how do you know what they are saying ?

Admit it MTI, you really don’t know what a Stalinist is. You’ve heard the term mentioned in connection with the left on some debate or Facebook page and have run with it.


Admin what? I learned about Russian history- oh it bothers you... I see. FYI I don't do tw..ter/facefook or any other online fantasy application where people believe they rule!

Stalinist is the name given to left wing ideology groups, mainly younger ones brought up on left wing shite via educationalist who use his paranoia and fear to gain trust only to crush and destabilize democracies- check out Greta and her mob, BLM mobs. then compare to Stalin joining the labour party in Russia, and his mobs!

wee note from one source- there are many!

How Many People Did Joseph Stalin Kill?
It's estimated that Stalin killed as many as 20 million people, directly or indirectly, through famine, forced labor camps, collectivization and executions.

Some scholars have argued that Stalin's record of killings amount to genocide and make him one of history's most ruthless mass murderers.

Stalin was eventually denounced by his successor, Nikita Khrushchev, in 1956. However, he has found a rekindled popularity among many of Russia's young people.

https://www.biography.com/dictator/joseph-stalin





Second point, outside the narrow framework of these threads you have no idea what I think about anything.

This narrow frame work offers your opinions, which are very easy to read- you are very selective about who you demonize!  still not ready to denounce the black youths attacking white police?  or Nelson Mandela?- lets me know a lot about your beliefs. I am not rubbishing them- I,unlike you, accept you have different ones from me.

Any form of violence is reprehensible no matter what the colour of your skin but more importantly kills the message you are trying to send.

You are selective, as you try to pin that  racist badge on me.  The new invented meaning of racist by the left and other victim groups.

 I have campaigned many times for white men imprisoned or killed by the police. For me it’s always about justice, never race. Your opinion appears to be different.

My opinion is no different,where is your evidence? there you go pointing that wagging self righteous finger

As to George Floyd, please do your research, he was sentenced to five years in prison for his involvement in an armed robbery in 2007.  The woman robbed, Aracely Henriquez, was injured by another man, and there’s no evidence she was pregnant at the time of the incident.

Oh that's ok then. I thought he was a misguided poor soul who was forced into a life of violence...

The marches aren’t about equal rights but equal treatment.

Yes, I agree  break the law get arrested,charged, etc... However, it is very plain that black criminals can play the race card, what about white criminals?

 Are there any protesters marching about general police wrong doing?  No!


This always makes me laugh....if the majority is silent how do you know what they are saying ?

I don't... I said they are silent and watching. See how you managed to put a twist on that as well? :)



Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 04:56:10 PM

There has never been any hint of Racism in my life.  I simply don't understand where this came from in Britain.

And I can't be bothered with it.

There were a few white women who became involved with Black Americans during The War and no one thought anything of it, other than what America thought of this.

I am sick to death of this.  America can stuff itself.

Nor am I interested in Slavery.  The Slave Traders were them selves Black, which is where it all began.  Black people sold other Black people because it was a Tribal thing.  Go away and talk to them about what they did.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 05:58:04 PM
Admit it MTI, you really don’t know what a Stalinist is. You’ve heard the term mentioned in connection with the left on some debate or Facebook page and have run with it.


Admin what? I learned about Russian history- oh it bothers you... I see. FYI I don't do tw..ter/facefook or any other online fantasy application where people believe they rule!

Stalinist is the name given to left wing ideology groups, mainly younger ones brought up on left wing shite via educationalist who use his paranoia and fear to gain trust only to crush and destabilize democracies- check out Greta and her mob, BLM mobs. then compare to Stalin joining the labour party in Russia, and his mobs!

wee note from one source- there are many!

How Many People Did Joseph Stalin Kill?
It's estimated that Stalin killed as many as 20 million people, directly or indirectly, through famine, forced labor camps, collectivization and executions.

Some scholars have argued that Stalin's record of killings amount to genocide and make him one of history's most ruthless mass murderers.

Stalin was eventually denounced by his successor, Nikita Khrushchev, in 1956. However, he has found a rekindled popularity among many of Russia's young people.

https://www.biography.com/dictator/joseph-stalin





Second point, outside the narrow framework of these threads you have no idea what I think about anything.

This narrow frame work offers your opinions, which are very easy to read- you are very selective about who you demonize!  still not ready to denounce the black youths attacking white police?  or Nelson Mandela?- lets me know a lot about your beliefs. I am not rubbishing them- I,unlike you, accept you have different ones from me.

Any form of violence is reprehensible no matter what the colour of your skin but more importantly kills the message you are trying to send.

You are selective, as you try to pin that  racist badge on me.  The new invented meaning of racist by the left and other victim groups.

 I have campaigned many times for white men imprisoned or killed by the police. For me it’s always about justice, never race. Your opinion appears to be different.

My opinion is no different,where is your evidence? there you go pointing that wagging self righteous finger

As to George Floyd, please do your research, he was sentenced to five years in prison for his involvement in an armed robbery in 2007.  The woman robbed, Aracely Henriquez, was injured by another man, and there’s no evidence she was pregnant at the time of the incident.

Oh that's ok then. I thought he was a misguided poor soul who was forced into a life of violence...

The marches aren’t about equal rights but equal treatment.

Yes, I agree  break the law get arrested,charged, etc... However, it is very plain that black criminals can play the race card, what about white criminals?

 Are there any protesters marching about general police wrong doing?  No!


This always makes me laugh....if the majority is silent how do you know what they are saying ?

I don't... I said they are silent and watching. See how you managed to put a twist on that as well? :)

I’m going to stop answering you now MTI because I am simply giving you a platform to display your rather odd, confused racist rants. Feel free to keep posting though....I’m sure if there’s anywhere you’re going to get support for your divisive views it’s here.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 18, 2020, 06:19:10 PM
I’m going to stop answering you now MTI because I am simply giving you a platform to display your rather odd, confused racist rants. Feel free to keep posting though....I’m sure if there’s anywhere you’re going to get support for your divisive views it’s here.


I have called you out Faith.  You have an agenda  I don't. I don't take sides, just to cause trouble. You are clouded by your strange political views.

A racist calling me a racist  ha! Oh Dear. My family is so diverse- I am hating on them according to you.

However, I take heart from this- when the lion roars loudly- the jungle animals run in fear as he rules with his roar, however, it only takes a small thorn in the paw to shut the lion up and leave it limping alone.


Next time you want to call people right wing facists/Nazis/ racist- just remember what Stalin did!

Go in peace with your political views. I remain independent of all party politics.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 18, 2020, 07:02:26 PM
Unless you love Jeremy Corbyn and insist on kneeling every time a black person passes you in the street, you are a racist according to Faithlilly.  Ironic, considering Corbyn’s Labour Party’s investigation for [ censored word]emitism.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 19, 2020, 10:52:53 PM
Unless you love Jeremy Corbyn and insist on kneeling every time a black person passes you in the street, you are a racist according to Faithlilly.  Ironic, considering Corbyn’s Labour Party’s investigation for [ censored word]emitism.

Well I must admit I am very disappointed, not shocked, by Faith calling me a racist. As it proved my point that the race card is played for any left wing agenda.

To be a racist I should hate all black people, feel superior to them, discriminate in all manner of ways against them.

No evidence of this at all in my life as I am a humanist! I have a diverse family we are all very close even though some live abroad. There are white Scottish people whom I prefer not to spend time with -nothing to do with being white Scottish (As I am myself blonde ,blue eyes-white), and  the same with other people who happen to be a different colour or from a different culture.  This is normal in human beings. some people we like some we don't for all manner of reasons.

It is also hardly mentioned that racism lives very well in other cultures. women in some ethnic communities are murdered for 'dating' a white man.  We never see peoples out rage at this, nor about the Asian gang rapists. The police did NOTHING about that and still no mass protests. The only people who bothered to keep on about it was  the far right wing BNP party- and THEY were called out as racists for highlighting it.


I will continue to call out the left wing Stalinist and challenge them- they eventually run out of steam ,shout racist and run to the gullible.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 19, 2020, 11:11:33 PM
Now apparently there are moves afoot to ban the singing of “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” at England Rugby matches.  Of course if you object to this you are branded a racist so you have to go along with it, to the point that in the end all the customs, history and cultural aspects of English life that BLM disapproves of are removed because at the end of the day who wants to be branded an evil racist?  I suggest a complete cleansing of all British culture and customs and a wiping of all history, and the removal to camps of all white dissenters  so that we can start at Year Zero, like Pol Pot’s Cambodia.  Pol Pot was of course a Communist. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Erngath on June 19, 2020, 11:52:39 PM
Now apparently there are moves afoot to ban the singing of “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” at England Rugby matches.  Of course if you object to this you are branded a racist so you have to go along with it, to the point that in the end all the customs, history and cultural aspects of English life that BLM disapproves of are removed because at the end of the day who wants to be branded an evil racist?  I suggest a complete cleansing of all British culture and customs and a wiping of all history, and the removal to camps of all white dissenters  so that we can start at Year Zero, like Pol Pot’s Cambodia.  Pol Pot was of course a Communist.

Going further back in history anything associated with any form of slavery which I despise, should be removed.
The pyramids?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 19, 2020, 11:58:23 PM
Going further back in history anything associated with any form of slavery, which I despise, should be removed.
The pyramids?
I was wondering about The Blues, from whence came Rock and Roll, and modern rock music.  Massive cultural appropriation off the back of slavery and the music it helped to inspire.  We could burn all white man blues, rock and roll, pop and rock records, especially Elvis who basically stole black music and made it his own.  Graceland should be knocked down, especially as it apes the style of the Plantation Owners grand houses of the Deep South. 
Next?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Erngath on June 20, 2020, 12:10:50 AM
I was wondering about The Blues, from whence came Rock and Roll, and modern rock music.  Massive cultural appropriation off the back of slavery and the music it helped to inspire.  We could burn all white man blues, rock and roll, pop and rock records, especially Elvis who basically stole black music and made it his own.  Graceland should be knocked down, especially as it apes the style of the Plantation Owners grand houses of the Deep South. 
Next?

Now you have gone too far.
As an Elvis fan from aged thirteen......how very dare you !!

Many of the streets in central Glasgow are named after persons or places connected with the slave trade.
There has been some discussion about whether they should be renamed.
Both Sir Tom Devine and Sir Geoff Palmer have advocated not renaming them but adding a plaque under the street names to explain and denounce the slavery attached to the names.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 12:31:32 AM
Now you have gone too far.
As an Elvis fan from aged thirteen......how very dare you !!

Many of the streets in central Glasgow are named after persons or places connected with the slave trade.
There has been some discussion about whether they should be renamed.
Both Sir Tom Devine and Sir Geoff Palmer have advocated not renaming them but adding a plaque under the street names to explain and denounce the slavery attached to the names.


Ah well you see this is only selective slavery. This country is awash with slaves from Africa (mainly Nigeria) the middle east, and not forgetting the EU and Russia sex slaves. But, we can forget about that because they are just sex slaves, or working in construction/farming and care homes in some instances- they won't take our jobs away so nothing to be bothered about. Good idea opening up the borders and free movement it means the slaves don't need to be shackled to a boat...oh wait...
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 12:36:58 AM
Going further back in history anything associated with any form of slavery which I despise, should be removed.
The pyramids?

I am still traumatized by the Vikings in Scotland! We should set up an inquiry ASAP.

I have to confess to loving soul music, being the racist that I am, I prefer black singers and music to white pop cr@p.   My Aunt and uncle played this type of music to keep me interested in playing keyboard.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 20, 2020, 07:20:41 AM
Now you have gone too far.
As an Elvis fan from aged thirteen......how very dare you !!

Many of the streets in central Glasgow are named after persons or places connected with the slave trade.
There has been some discussion about whether they should be renamed.
Both Sir Tom Devine and Sir Geoff Palmer have advocated not renaming them but adding a plaque under the street names to explain and denounce the slavery attached to the names.
Then there is of course the tricky issue of surnames.  Michelle Obama’s maiden name is Robinson, and this will almost certainly be a name conferred on her forbears by their slave owner Mr Evil b........ Robinson.  I am surprised that more blacks with European surnames have not sought to change their names to something more African-sounding so as not to be constantly reminded that their ancestors were once owned by white oppressors.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: G-Unit on June 20, 2020, 09:42:39 AM
Now apparently there are moves afoot to ban the singing of “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” at England Rugby matches.  Of course if you object to this you are branded a racist so you have to go along with it, to the point that in the end all the customs, history and cultural aspects of English life that BLM disapproves of are removed because at the end of the day who wants to be branded an evil racist?  I suggest a complete cleansing of all British culture and customs and a wiping of all history, and the removal to camps of all white dissenters  so that we can start at Year Zero, like Pol Pot’s Cambodia.  Pol Pot was of course a Communist.

I remember watching rugby players performing this song with actions, which had nothing to do with racism.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 20, 2020, 11:15:03 AM
I remember watching rugby players performing this song with actions, which had nothing to do with racism.
Of course it's not racist, but apparently it is cultural appropriation which is now frowned upon by the self-righteous monitors of political correctness.  If we go down this route where will it end? 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 20, 2020, 12:53:34 PM

Banning all the things has ended racism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=pvFmju2Qhyw
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 02:16:54 PM
Of course it's not racist, but apparently it is cultural appropriation which is now frowned upon by the self-righteous monitors of political correctness.  If we go down this route where will it end?


It is looking the the 'rivers of Blood 'speech was a prophesy about to be a reality.

To counter challenge this BLM mob we will see a huge rise in support for Facists, far right wing out-rite racists!
The silent white  majority and some ethnic minorities  are watching- we won't sit back and let this  tin pot revolution win!

So who are these people? You may well ask...

Elsewhere on its GoFundMe page, Black Lives Matter UK declares that it wishes to spend cash it has raised on ‘developing and delivering’ what it calls ‘strategies for the abolition of the police’.
So who is behind the group? And how were those who dreamt up its policy goals appointed?
Bizarrely, Black Lives Matter UK is entirely anonymous, offering no transparency on who controls it or where its money will be spent.
Despite having existed since July 2016, when its Twitter and Facebook accounts were created, it has no physical address or website. It has no formal governing structure or constitution, no chief executive, chairman or board of trustees. It is not registered as a charity or as a non-profit organisation. It has never filed accounts and its spending has never been audited.
At Companies House, a firm called Black Lives Matter Limited was set up this month by one David Wilks-Carmichael, who calls himself a ‘venture capital consultant’ — on paper, a strangely capitalistic profession for anyone associated with anti-capitalists.

Mr Wilks-Carmichael has been a director of 17 companies, of which 15 have been dissolved and only one has ever filed accounts.
His only other active company, Universal Private Equity, is not registered with the Financial Conduct Authority and appears to be based in a service office in the City of London. According to its most recent financial statements, it has just £5,000 in the bank.

  more interesting stuff...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8441405/The-avowed-aims-British-arm-Black-Lives-Matter.html

Money is on the usual suspects-Black criminal gangs- drugdealers-sex slave traders and mabee a few 'rich uncles/ocusins from Nigeria holding the financial dealings.. could be the violent wing of the far left wing a bit like the brown shirts in Nazi Germany.  Corby may well still get into power with his PC IDEOLOGY.
 Diane Abbot for Prime Minister?

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 20, 2020, 02:31:56 PM
I asked my daughter a few weeks ago what she was hoping BLM would achieve in this country, what their main demand was.  She said to "defund the police".  I couldn't believe my ears.  This in a country where the government is routinely slagged off for cuts to public services, including the police!  You could not make it up. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 03:04:56 PM
I asked my daughter a few weeks ago what she was hoping BLM would achieve in this country, what their main demand was.  She said to "defund the police".  I couldn't believe my ears.  This in a country where the government is routinely slagged off for cuts to public services, including the police!  You could not make it up.

Yes,  scary stuff.  However, I will share this. My 6 year old nephew asked his mum does her life not matter? (We are white) she was horrified. My brother in law is black and said if anyone ever says black lives matter you tell them all lives matter!  and to you especially your mums!

 I mean a six year old being upset by this horror.

God only knows what school/university is going to be like.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 20, 2020, 03:19:01 PM

It is inevitable the far right will gain more support as a push back against BLM's extreme left wing ideology.

I don't consider the far right as any real threat compared to BLM though,  they are just a bunch of piss head football hooligans who will achieve nothing.

BLM on the other hand has gained the support from people in the middle ground, who have jumped on the politically correct anti-racism bandwagon & who likely haven't even read the list of demands.

BLM are dangerous, they have gained the support of all the mainstream media, celebrities, sporting groups, companies, corporations & politicians.

I fully expect civil unrest to continue right up until November & possibility into January until the elections are over & creepy, sleepy uncle Joe Biden becomes president.

Biden will then do as Obama did, give support to BLM & invite them to the White House.

If I were a Police Officer in the U.S I would be seriously considering a career change & possibly emigrating.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 03:31:46 PM
It is inevitable the far right will gain more support as a push back against BLM's extreme left wing ideology.

I don't consider the far right as any real threat compared to BLM though,  they are just a bunch of piss head football hooligans who will achieve nothing.

BLM on the other hand has gained the support from people in the middle ground, who have jumped on the politically correct anti-racism bandwagon & who likely haven't even read the list of demands.

BLM are dangerous, they have gained the support of all the mainstream media, celebrities, sporting groups, companies, corporations & politicians.

I fully expect civil unrest to continue right up until November & possibility into January until the elections are over & creepy, sleepy uncle Joe Biden becomes president.

Biden will then do as Obama did, give support to BLM & invite them to the White House.

If I were a Police Officer in the U.S I would be seriously considering a career change & possibly emigrating.


You are absolutely correct with that Spammers. Mind you, some are now slowly pulling back their support. Megan Markle has joined the bandwagon, (Her what was driven out of this racist country) well her n hapless Harry need a job. Hail, Hail they smell the money, she will be the respectable face of this violent Stalinist regime. So it is bound to fail"!  like her pontificating about Global warming!


America is now closer to another civil war that every before. The deep south will not sit on this.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 20, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
Yes,  scary stuff.  However, I will share this. My 6 year old nephew asked his mum does her life not matter? (We are white) she was horrified. My brother in law is black and said if anyone ever says black lives matter you tell them all lives matter!  and to you especially your mums!

 I mean a six year old being upset by this horror.

God only knows what school/university is going to be like.

My daughter is 13...when I said all lives matter I was told that was racist...children are being brainwashed by the internet
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 20, 2020, 05:30:18 PM
Of course it's not racist, but apparently it is cultural appropriation which is now frowned upon by the self-righteous monitors of political correctness.  If we go down this route where will it end?

One of the female leaders of BLM has staright blonde hair...it seems accusations of cultural appreciation dont apply to them
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 20, 2020, 05:51:12 PM


I'm a member of a BLM facebook group, I occasionally mildly troll them by pointing out when they're being a little racist.

They haven't kicked me..... yet.

A BLM activist, Olawatoyin Salau, was recently murdered by a black man.

Where their posts are normally filled with comments when a black person is killed by a cop or a white, the post about Olawatoyin's murder was very noticeably absent of any outrage.

Of the few comments there were, one or two were suggesting the police or KKK had actually killed her & framed her killer.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 07:36:31 PM
One of the female leaders of BLM has staright blonde hair...it seems accusations of cultural appreciation dont apply to them

Whites not allowed to wear dreadlocks (God who would want to) or Cornrows  as it causes offense is really funny!

You are right though- they called out Michael Jackson for looking 'white' even though many black women do lighten their skin and take to wearing blue contacts to change the eye colour and dye their hair. I will try not to be offended by that... the bob OMG stop them having a stylish bob cut!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 20, 2020, 08:18:15 PM
Black Lives Matter is just 'pitting black people against everyone else'.   

'I think it's racist. It's not just black lives matter, white lives matter, Chinese lives matter, all lives matter, everybody's life matters,'

'God loves everyone - he never singled anyone out. Killing is wrong no matter who it is.'

Muhammed Ali Jr.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 20, 2020, 11:38:19 PM


Been watching CNN & listening to the commentators bitch about how Trump's rally is going to spread Covid 19.

Funny how the tens of thousands of BLM protesters who were marching & shouting in the crowded streets the other week were somehow immune.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: John on June 21, 2020, 12:09:42 AM

Been watching CNN & listening to the commentators bitch about how Trump's rally is going to spread Covid 19.

Funny how the tens of thousands of BLM protesters who were marching & shouting in the crowded streets the other week were somehow immune.

Typical Clinton News Network.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 21, 2020, 08:53:22 AM
It’s sadly ironic that shortly after a BLM protest in Reading, the police (who BLM want to be defunded) have to be summoned to deal with an incident in which they have to put their own lives on the line to save members of the public from a murderer on the rampage (a murderer incidentally from the African continent).  I wonder what would have happened if the police had killed him?  What would BLM supporters have had to say about that?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 21, 2020, 11:40:09 AM
Going further back in history anything associated with any form of slavery which I despise, should be removed.
The pyramids?

I would be interested  if anyone can provide a link where the BLM movement has asked for Swing Low to be banned ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 21, 2020, 11:42:18 AM
Typical Clinton News Network.

Good to see the stadium was half empty.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 21, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Well I must admit I am very disappointed, not shocked, by Faith calling me a racist. As it proved my point that the race card is played for any left wing agenda.

To be a racist I should hate all black people, feel superior to them, discriminate in all manner of ways against them.

No evidence of this at all in my life as I am a humanist! I have a diverse family we are all very close even though some live abroad. There are white Scottish people whom I prefer not to spend time with -nothing to do with being white Scottish (As I am myself blonde ,blue eyes-white), and  the same with other people who happen to be a different colour or from a different culture.  This is normal in human beings. some people we like some we don't for all manner of reasons.

It is also hardly mentioned that racism lives very well in other cultures. women in some ethnic communities are murdered for 'dating' a white man.  We never see peoples out rage at this, nor about the Asian gang rapists. The police did NOTHING about that and still no mass protests. The only people who bothered to keep on about it was  the far right wing BNP party- and THEY were called out as racists for highlighting it.


I will continue to call out the left wing Stalinist and challenge them- they eventually run out of steam ,shout racist and run to the gullible.

I don’t know you personally and I could be misjudging you  but if you don’t want to be called a racist, don’t post racist rhetoric....it really is as simple as that.

There are racists in all communities ? Quelle surprise ! Thank you for pointing that out, I really hadn’t realised.

Further before you can call out Stalinists you really should learn what the term means.

If nothing else it has been tremendously entertaining watching the BLM movement get all your knickers in a twist.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 21, 2020, 04:45:35 PM

Been watching CNN & listening to the commentators bitch about how Trump's rally is going to spread Covid 19.

Funny how the tens of thousands of BLM protesters who were marching & shouting in the crowded streets the other week were somehow immune.


Well not really, in fact quite the opposite- stats presented- have shown Black and Ethnic minorities are more prone to catch and die from it. They were angered by that bit of news as well, but ignored the advice given anyway!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 21, 2020, 04:49:05 PM
I would be interested  if anyone can provide a link where the BLM movement has asked for Swing Low to be banned ?



Well the movement is a bit erratic at the moment  as no one seems to be 'in charge'  however, with the help of  two grifting wanna beez  will this suffice:

Harry calls for swing low song to be banned...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html


Megan is in talks with Opera and other black celebrities as she feels this is her calling... racism AKA Black Loives matter.

Well It depends on what kind of Black person you are to even matter...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8443669/ESTHER-KRAKUE-dared-question-aims-Black-Lives-Matter.html

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 21, 2020, 04:57:52 PM
No one on this thread has claimed that BLM directly asked for Swing Low Sweet Chariot to be removed but we can be certain that their recent anti-establishment protests inspired the calls for its removal.

Anyway, just who IS BLM?  Who is their official spokesperson?  What DO they actually want apart from to destroy capitalism and promote the interests of blacks, gays, transgender, the marginalised, the disabled and (very kindly, though I personally don’t need their support thanks very much) women.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 21, 2020, 05:02:00 PM
I don’t know you personally and I could be misjudging you  but if you don’t want to be called a racist, don’t post racist rhetoric....it really is as simple as that.

There are racists in all communities ? Quelle surprise ! Thank you for pointing that out, I really hadn’t realised.

Further before you can call out Stalinists you really should learn what the term means.

If nothing else it has been tremendously entertaining watching the BLM movement get all your knickers in a twist.

You can judge me if you feel that is your right to do so, with what authority I have no idea- apologies if I fail to live up to your expectations but I really don't give  a........

I Have no objection to be called a racist by the left wing antagonists, as it means absolutely nothing! It is being brushed aside as 'playing the race card @ the pity party' And it shows you and your fellow left wing activists up for what they are.

No one has their knickers in a twist here Faith.  Just people commenting on others commenting and putting a different story to the tw..ters that matters celebrities kneeling and wringing their hands to a bunch of looters, muggers and police bashers- claiming to be marching peacefully. Those would be the 'brown shirts' of the political wing.  Oh My  what a WOKE experience.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 21, 2020, 07:27:48 PM
You can judge me if you feel that is your right to do so, with what authority I have no idea- apologies if I fail to live up to your expectations but I really don't give  a........

I Have no objection to be called a racist by the left wing antagonists, as it means absolutely nothing! It is being brushed aside as 'playing the race card @ the pity party' And it shows you and your fellow left wing activists up for what they are.

No one has their knickers in a twist here Faith.  Just people commenting on others commenting and putting a different story to the tw..ters that matters celebrities kneeling and wringing their hands to a bunch of looters, muggers and police bashers- claiming to be marching peacefully. Those would be the 'brown shirts' of the political wing.  Oh My  what a WOKE experience.

You really do seem a rather angry person. Go on, give socialism a try...your blood pressure will thank you for it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 04:27:13 PM
The British public not being racist.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/reading-stabbings-muslim-journalist-death-22227933

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 24, 2020, 03:57:57 PM
The British public not being racist.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/reading-stabbings-muslim-journalist-death-22227933

i would imagine there are racists in the black lives matter movement. Is BLM just concerned with black people or BAME. They talk of the African Caribbean  disapora...no mention of  Asian people.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 25, 2020, 07:18:50 AM
A must-read article that almost certainly no BLM will want or bother to read:
From today’s Times
Black Lives is silent on everyday US violence
Someone had hung a noose in the garage of Darrell “Bubba” Wallace, the most successful African-American racing car driver in the country, ahead of the weekend’s big stock car race. The noose of course is the loathsome symbol of a lynching. NASCAR is huge in the deep south and the organisation has sought to purge racist elements from its fan base.

The incident was immediately seized on as a powerfully symbolic example of exactly the kind of endemic racism that has driven America to boiling point this hot summer. Mr Wallace described it as a “painful reminder of how much further we have to go as a society”. The media, celebrities, politicians and everyone with access to a smartphone piled in. Oddly, in an age when the merest misdeed can go viral, no one had seen a picture of the noose. But no matter. Fifteen FBI agents descended on the track.

After what must have been one of the simplest and shortest investigations in the agency’s long history, on Tuesday it was reported that the “noose” was in fact a rope tied in a small loop knot for a pulley used to open the garage door. It had been there, officials said, since at least October last year when no one could possibly have known that Mr Wallace would be parked in the garage. Video later circulated that showed in fact many of the garages in the same row at the track had exactly the same door-pull.

Meanwhile as the fleet-footed successors to Eliot Ness were hunting down imaginary racism in Alabama, in Chicago last weekend more than 100 people, almost all of them black, were shot, 14 of them, including a 13-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy who had just proudly got a haircut with his dad, fatally. In New York there have been 125 shootings in the first three weeks of June. Again, almost all the victims have been black. In Minneapolis, where George Floyd’s death last month started the protests, at least 30 people were shot between Friday night and Monday evening.

Not a single police officer was involved in any of this violence. In cities across America, the picture is the same as it ever was: young black men, single mothers, students, children with lives and hopes ahead of them, gunned down by black criminals.

These killings, unlike NASCAR’s now notorious non-noose, received almost no public attention, little media coverage and still less outrage or protest. Instead, crowds of African-Americans, supported by the wealthy young, white commissars and foot soldiers of the people’s woke army, fresh out of colleges where they’ve learnt critical race theory and the legacy of white imperialism, continue to march through cities, raging at police lines, condemning white privilege and tearing down statues of increasingly random historical figures.

Leaders of Black Lives Matter, the organisation that is now, quite possibly, the most powerful in the country, if not beyond, had essentially nothing to say on those dozens of black lives lost in a single weekend to violence. They, and their allies who seem in control of almost every media organisation, college and corporation in America, continue to insist that the greatest evil facing black Americans is police brutality and the “systemic racism” that empowers it.

The data — stubborn things — continue to suggest otherwise. The latest statistics from the FBI tell us that in 2018, 2,925 black people were murdered in the United States. Of those, 2,600 were murdered by other blacks. The number of whites killed by blacks was more than twice as many as blacks killed by whites. Also, twice as many whites as black people were killed by police officers that year.

Now it is completely legitimate to ask why there is so much black-on-black crime and part of the answer, without doubt, lies in the blight of poverty and lack of opportunity that are a reflection of the inequality that persists in America, though the role played by social pathologies such as fatherless children that are particularly prevalent in black communities should also be addressed. But talk to those communities in those cities and it’s not the police they’re scared of. It’s the criminals.

It has become increasingly clear in the orgy of recrimination, statue-toppling, cancellations and social-media shaming that what is at work here is a much larger political programme aimed, not at redressing racial wrongs, but at remaking this country, its self-image — and much of the world.

This summer of rage is not really about people coming together to seek ways to save black lives. If it were, it would surely devote attention at least as much to the conditions of three-year-old black children in Chicago as to the provenance of 150-year-old statues in Washington DC. It’s still surprisingly little understood that BLM wants a revolution: defunding the police; dismantling the institutions of capitalism and white supremacy.

That’s why the NASCAR incident is so telling. Like other instances of late of supposed white hatred that turn out to be false, it provides a useful narrative of blame to promote a cause that is actually doing nothing to address the daily outrages that ruin so many American lives.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2020, 05:09:10 PM


Shocking scenes in Brixton last night where far right, white supremacist nazis were destroying public property & attacking the police.




Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 25, 2020, 05:43:18 PM
British Blacks not being violent anti-social tossers

Illegal street party in Brixton: Downing St condemns attacks on police
April 30 2020, 12.01am
After images of the confrontation involving dozens of people on the Angell Town estate in Brixton were widely shared today, the prime minister’s official spokesman said: “These were appalling scenes. Violence against the police will not be tolerated.”

Priti Patel, the home secretary, described the scenes as “utterly vile” and said that she would be speaking to Dame Cressida.

At least 22 police officers were injured, two of whom required hospital treatment and CT scans for suspected head injuries. Four people were arrested for assault and public order offences, the Metropolitan Police said.

John Apter, the chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales, said: “We’ve seen about 250 police officers injured in recent weeks, that’s just an unimaginable number.

“The scale of the disorder in Brixton and the targeting of my colleagues is an absolute disgrace. We’re reaching the point where it’s only through fortune that my colleagues are not being more seriously injured or in fact killed.”

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He added that police officers are in an “impossible” position, criticised if they police too softly or go in too hard.

Mr Apter called for those responsible to face the consequences. “We need to put these people in prison where they belong because this is not acceptable at any level,” he said.

The Tory MP Andrew Bridgen told Mail Online: “Cressida Dick has lost control of the streets to a lawless minority. She has lost the confidence of the law-abiding majority of residents in Brixton and the country by effectively abandoning them to mob rule.”

Police said officers had tried to “encourage the crowd to leave” after they were called to reports of a “large unlicensed music event” in Overton Road . “The event continued and more officers attended the scene and the group became hostile towards officers,” Scotland Yard said in a statement.

One witness, who did not want to be named, said: “After the police backed up, the group of people then forced the police out of the estate, throwing things at the police, smashed up a police car that they abandoned and then it moved more towards the main road.”

Vandals smashed a police car and a van. Police were forced to retreat after being pelted with bottles and threatened by crowds armed with makeshift weapons.

In one video, two men can be seen carrying a large wooden table before ripping its legs off and running at the police, who started to run away as the crowd descended on them. In another video, a person appears to be waving a sword at officers.

Two men could be seen standing on top of a police vehicle while smashing in the windscreen with a table leg. Another man attempted to smash the back window of a police van with a plank of wood before it was driven off.

The footage, posted to the social media app SnapChat, appeared to have been filmed by a former resident of the estate using the name claire_419er. “Jesus is my lord, they have broken into the back of the van,” she says as groups of men attack a parked police vehicle.

Later, in another post, she adds: “This is . . . Angell Town, where I grew up. It’s not a good thing but, do you know what? It’s entertainment.”

The Met police gave the Angell Town estate, which is home to 4,000 residents, the most serious classification in its Gangs Matrix. The Department for Communities and Local Government classified it as “one of the 10 per cent most deprived areas in the country”.

Commander Colin Wingrove, said: “Our role is to protect the public and ensure guidelines are adhered to in order to prevent the spread of Covid-19, protecting the NHS, and save lives.

“Our officers work incredibly hard to engage and explain the public health message and regulations to prevent such gatherings occurring.

“Last night we received numerous concerns from residents complaining about a large gathering, noise, anti-social behaviour and violence, and officers responded to those concerns. These gatherings are unlawful, as well as posing a risk to public health and against coronavirus restrictions.

“We are engaged with the local community and our partners. Officers are out today conducting reassurance patrols. The violence shown towards officers is totally unacceptable and we will not tolerate it in any form.

“An investigation into the incident is now taking place and those involved will be brought to justice.”
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 25, 2020, 06:37:37 PM

Shocking scenes in Brixton last night where far right, white supremacist nazis were destroying public property & attacking the police.

Are you truly trying to suggest that the appalling scenes in Brixton didn’t involve white people too ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 25, 2020, 06:46:47 PM
Ill just leave this little video link here, showing all the racist white people chasing the police and smashing up their vehicles

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/violence-at-street-party-brixton-leaves-more-than-police-injured
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
Are you truly trying to suggest that the appalling scenes in Brixton didn’t involve white people too ?

Of course it did. The police officers were white & they had to run for their lives.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 25, 2020, 06:57:39 PM
More evidence of racist whites on the rampage in Brixton last night
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-53181828/brixton-street-party-footage-shows-clashes-with-police
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 25, 2020, 07:14:11 PM
Those damn thugs attacking the police.

https://twitter.com/mason17__/status/1276092195196538880?s=21
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Those damn thugs attacking the police.

https://twitter.com/mason17__/status/1276092195196538880?s=21

Minor scuffle.

Notice the police didn't have to retreat in fear for their lives.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2020, 07:51:32 PM


Imagine if a white extremist stabbed 3 black people to death in a Reading park.

There'd be riots and looting & you'd never hear the last of it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 12:10:34 AM
Minor scuffle.

Notice the police didn't have to retreat in fear for their lives.

I’m sure the police felt relatively safe as the racists couldn’t reach them over their beer bellies.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 12:13:47 AM

Imagine if a white extremist stabbed 3 black people to death in a Reading park.

There'd be riots and looting & you'd never hear the last of it.

I’m sure the poor families of those killed in the horrendous attack in Reading will welcome your attempt to use their relatives to make a cheap, racist point.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 07:11:41 AM
Don’t you just love the smell of faux outrage in the morning...?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 26, 2020, 10:48:53 AM
It seems like statues of  a white Jesus are a traget of Black Lives matter......I hope they continue with this abject stupidity as they will simply lose more and more support.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 11:34:59 AM
It seems like statues of  a white Jesus are a traget of Black Lives matter......I hope they continue with this abject stupidity as they will simply lose more and more support.

The newspapers print it, the stupid regurgitate it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2020, 12:25:53 PM
The newspapers print it, the stupid regurgitate it.

The call to 'tear down' statues of Jesus as well as Mary & 'all their European friends' was made by prominent BLM activist Shaun King.

He described them as 'Tools of propaganda'  'A form of white supremacy' & 'Racist propaganda'

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/shaun-king-jesus-statue/
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
The call to 'tear down' statues of Jesus as well as Mary & 'all their European friends' was made by prominent BLM activist Shaun King.

He described them as 'Tools of propaganda'  'A form of white supremacy' & 'Racist propaganda'

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/shaun-king-jesus-statue/

Shaun King is a journalist and activist who supports the BLM movement. His tweets are his own. There is no one, as far as I am aware, from inside the BLM movement itself who has condoned his tweet.

Bit of a storm in a teacup eh.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
Shaun King is a journalist and activist who supports the BLM movement. His tweets are his own. There is no one, as far as I am aware, from inside the BLM movement itself who has condoned his tweet.

Bit of a storm in a teacup eh.

He is a race baiter who takes every opportunity to jump on the BLM bandwagon.
He claims to be black but, have you seen him?  He is whiter than me.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 06:08:29 PM
He is a race baiter who takes every opportunity to jump on the BLM bandwagon.
He claims to be black but, have you seen him?  He is whiter than me.

He may be all you say but he is not a member of the BLM movement so your original point is moot.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 06:08:52 PM
Out of interest, who is “inside the BLM movement” and how do you become a member?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
Meanwhile...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8460059/Cambridge-University-backs-academic-tweeted-White-Lives-Dont-Matter.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2020, 06:11:43 PM
He may be all you say but he is not a member of the BLM movement so your original point is moot.

So who are the members of the BLM movement?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 06:39:46 PM
So who are the members of the BLM movement?

Here you go, the global actions page of the BLM’s webpage.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/global-actions/

See anything about Jesus ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 06:42:25 PM
So who are the members of the BLM movement?

Great question  and Faith is the 'go to person' to ask  as she is in the know being an expert on all things racist...

So here in Glasgow- where I work we had this today...https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1301457/glasgow-police-officer-stabbed-west-george-street-police-incident-latest-scotland-terror

Hotel housing 'Asylum seekers' and police shot the stabber.. Oh I hope he wasn't black or Asian... or an asylum seeker.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2020, 06:45:32 PM
Here you go, the global actions page of the BLM’s webpage.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/global-actions/

See anything about Jesus ?

I don't see anything about whom it's members are.

I guess all those people rioting, looting & burning down police stations must be the KKK.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 06:51:11 PM
Here you go, the global actions page of the BLM’s webpage.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/global-actions/

See anything about Jesus ?

They don't say a lot of what they say outside  their web page as they are trying to now be  'respectable and proper like' Oh and peaceful.  Thev are in the minority- getting all they want using fear and violence, but they will push the majority of white/Asian population to exasperation- and BOY will that not be a pretty sight!

Have BLM leaders, of what looks like  a political party, with an agenda, come out yet to say they accept criticism like all other political views or are we still racists is we do comment?
Not that I give a f... just asking for clarification.



Re: the Jesus thing... YEAH I agree many images are too white - He was middle eastern and Jewish.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 06:51:35 PM
According to that link BLM haven’t done much since February 2019.  I hope they’re OK.  It must be a bummer having all these crazies protesting in your name and sullying it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 06:53:00 PM
Great question  and Faith is the 'go to person' to ask  as she is in the know being an expert on all things racist...

So here in Glasgow- where I work we had this today...https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1301457/glasgow-police-officer-stabbed-west-george-street-police-incident-latest-scotland-terror

Hotel housing 'Asylum seekers' and police shot the stabber.. Oh I hope he wasn't black or Asian... or an asylum seeker.

I think it’s rather to early to speculate what has happened. Not surprising that someone who claims to be apolitical is making political capital out of such a horrendous event.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 06:53:40 PM
I don't see anything about whom it's members are.

I guess all those people rioting, looting & burning down police stations must be the KKK.

They guy after the dick cassindra is calling for greater powers to curb....... white supremacist threats?   WTF

He is on the band wagon... and isn't white, so nothing racist about that really.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2020, 06:54:29 PM
Great question  and Faith is the 'go to person' to ask  as she is in the know being an expert on all things racist...

So here in Glasgow- where I work we had this today...https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1301457/glasgow-police-officer-stabbed-west-george-street-police-incident-latest-scotland-terror

Hotel housing 'Asylum seekers' and police shot the stabber.. Oh I hope he wasn't black or Asian... or an asylum seeker.

This is just another example of the systemic police brutality people face in the UK.

They should have asked him nicely to stop stabbing people and just put the knife down.

We need to de-fund & disband the police.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 06:55:58 PM
They don't say a lot of what they say outside  their web page as they are trying to now be  'respectable and proper like' Oh and peaceful.  Thev are in the minority- getting all they want using fear and violence, but they will push the majority of white/Asian population to exasperation- and BOY will that not be a pretty sight!

Have BLM leaders, of what looks like  a political party, with an agenda, come out yet to say they accept criticism like all other political views or are we still racists is we do comment?
Not that I give a f... just asking for clarification.



Re: the Jesus thing... YEAH I agree many images are too white - He was middle eastern and Jewish.

Will not be a pretty sight ? A race war ? How very Charles Manson.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 06:56:36 PM
This is just another example of the systemic police brutality people face in the UK.

They should have asked him nicely to stop stabbing people and just put the knife down.

We need to de-fund & disband the police.
Not people.  Only BAME.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 06:59:33 PM
I think it’s rather to early to speculate what has happened. Not surprising that someone who claims to be apolitical is making political capital out of such a horrendous event.

The some one you speak of never claimed to not have an opinion of fraudulent asylum seekers claims.

I am making a statement.  Oh I hope he wasn't black or Asian... or an asylum seeker.  Nothing political about it!  I have to get to work and don't want the  angry hoards out demanding white heads be cut off to avenge police shooting of the  innocent murderer.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 07:04:25 PM
Will not be a pretty sight ? A race war ? How very Charles Manson.

I have seen brutality from 'angry men' against women and children of ALLA races. damned if I just mention white and Asian abusers to avoid upsetting black abusers and white non racists who wouldn't approve of my 'opinions'  people like your self Faith.

Blacks are all innocent of everything and get picked on all the time for no reason. where is my banner!!!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 07:08:27 PM
This is just another example of the systemic police brutality people face in the UK.

They should have asked him nicely to stop stabbing people and just put the knife down.

We need to de-fund & disband the police.

You are a self- confessed troll so this sort of post comes with the territory. Crack on.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 07:09:21 PM
This is just another example of the systemic police brutality people face in the UK.

They should have asked him nicely to stop stabbing people and just put the knife down.

We need to de-fund & disband the police.


Oh no worries, that is being taken care of as we speak, in our racist tones.

 The London Mayor has asked for  police cuts in funding...  AND the police run away- so in effect they were disbanded or at least dismissed for the time being.

Some black folks living in the terror- cannot speak up as they will be called... white sympathizers!!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
The police have been attacked by black party goers two nights in a row.  They can only run away because if they are seen to retaliate with any resembling force they will all be condemned as brutal racists.  So apart from let the parties carry on, causing distress and disturbance to their neighbourhoods how would BLM supporters like police to deal with this?  Imagine it was happening in your neighbourhood.  I guess you would be delighted to know your black neighbours were having such fun, even if it meant you got no sleep.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 07:30:16 PM
I have seen brutality from 'angry men' against women and children of ALLA races. damned if I just mention white and Asian abusers to avoid upsetting black abusers and white non racists who wouldn't approve of my 'opinions'  people like your self Faith.

Blacks are all innocent of everything and get picked on all the time for no reason. where is my banner!!!

Don’t be silly now MTI....you are free to mention whatever you like...and I am free to disagree.

I see you don’t seem to think of yourself as a white non racist. Why is that ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 07:31:11 PM
The police have been attacked by black party goers two nights in a row.  They can only run away because if they are seen to retaliate with any resembling force they will all be condemned as brutal racists.  So apart from let the parties carry on, causing distress and disturbance to their neighbourhoods how would BLM supporters like police to deal with this?  Imagine it was happening in your neighbourhood.  I guess you would be delighted to know your black neighbours were having such fun, even if it meant you got no sleep.


I am sure Faith will have the answer to that!

I am sure there will come a point where the army will have to be called in to protect the innocent black residents and their children. We have had enough of NO GO areas in our country. respect it and the laws or fcough.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 26, 2020, 07:37:57 PM
Don’t be silly now MTI....you are free to mention whatever you like...and I am free to disagree.

I see you don’t seem to think of yourself as a white non racist. Why is that ?


Because I do not recognise race or  colour to be distinguished.

 E.G An Asian man is murdered by a black and white man- I expect both to receive the same punishment.
 If I was black and wanted the white man to receive a longer sentence due to his 'white privileged' that makes me a racist.

 If I an white and wanted the black man to get a longer sentence because he is black and  claim blacks are more violent  then that makes me a racist.

If I am white and hate all blacks and refuse to talk to them or associate with them=racist
 same goes for any one.


I treat every one equally.At face value-I hate paedophiles regardless of colour or race. I am a humanist I was brought up that way.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 07:57:44 PM

Because I do not recognise race or  colour to be distinguished.

 E.G An Asian man is murdered by a black and white man- I expect both to receive the same punishment.
 If I was black and wanted the white man to receive a longer sentence due to his 'white privileged' that makes me a racist.

 If I an white and wanted the black man to get a longer sentence because he is black and  claim blacks are more violent  then that makes me a racist.

If I am white and hate all blacks and refuse to talk to them or associate with them=racist
 same goes for any one.


I treat every one equally.At face value-I hate paedophiles regardless of colour or race. I am a humanist I was brought up that way.

You are quite eager to pin labels on others but baulk at having them applied to you.

You are either a racist or a non racist. There is no other option. If you treat everyone equally then you are a non racist, is that what you are ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 26, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
I find BLM a racist organisation...other races experience racism not just black poeple.
Then we have  a policeman telling the truth being silenced. Black lives do matter...I think a good start  would be for black youths to abandon their knife culture and stop killing each other.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8463977/Sky-News-cuts-ex-Met-Police-chief.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 08:31:46 PM

I am sure Faith will have the answer to that!

I am sure there will come a point where the army will have to be called in to protect the innocent black residents and their children. We have had enough of NO GO areas in our country. respect it and the laws or fcough.
I’m sure she won’t.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2020, 08:46:44 PM
I find BLM a racist organisation...other races experience racism not just black poeple.
Then we have  a policeman telling the truth being silenced. Black lives do matter...I think a good start  would be for black youths to abandon their knife culture and stop killing each other.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8463977/Sky-News-cuts-ex-Met-Police-chief.html

Very true in Britain many other races do experience racism but it is not racist for BLM to want to bring attention to the racism targeted at them.  Hurley wasn’t silenced, he was cut off as many guests are when it is either the top of the hour or they have to go to an ad break. Of course it would be a good start for all youths to abandon the knife carrying culture that seems to be so prevalent now...or do you condone white youths carrying them ?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
'We've got into a vicious circle with police officers dealing with young black people, who always come to the perspective that the police are trying to suppress them.

'And the police very quickly come to learn that dealing with young black people is quite frankly aggravation that puts their careers and mortgages at risk.

'That's the reason why so many black youth are killing each other in London, because the police have given up trying to stop them carrying knives and guns and killing each other.'

Ain’t it the truth.

Either the black community wants the help of the police in attempting to stop knife crime and should stop shouting “racist” when police stop and search black youth, or they don’t and instead let their children continue killing each other unimpeded by officers of the law.  Which is it to be?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 26, 2020, 10:13:53 PM
del
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on June 26, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Very true in Britain many other races do experience racism but it is not racist for BLM to want to bring attention to the racism targeted at them.  Hurley wasn’t silenced, he was cut off as many guests are when it is either the top of the hour or they have to go to an ad break. Of course it would be a good start for all youths to abandon the knife carrying culture that seems to be so prevalent now...or do you condone white youths carrying them ?

I dont condone anyone carrying them but there is a far higher incidence of knife crime amongst black youths.....confirmed by the senior policeman today.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 27, 2020, 12:09:59 AM
I dont condone anyone carrying them but there is a far higher incidence of knife crime amongst black youths.....confirmed by the senior policeman today.

In London, agreed but in the rest of the country that’s not so. It is however a far more complex issue than Hurley is claiming. Why target Afro Caribbean single mothers ? Isn’t that rather simplistic?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 27, 2020, 05:33:11 PM
You are quite eager to pin labels on others but baulk at having them applied to you.

You are either a racist or a non racist. There is no other option. If you treat everyone equally then you are a non racist, is that what you are ?

I do not baulk, I have no reason to.

 I have not pinned labels on anyone. BLM are using their race to commit all sorts of crimes So, if the  gown fits ...


Anyone who knows me knows I am not a racist in the true meaning of the word as I explained that earlier, according to the left wing/Marxist/Stalinist movement I am very much a racist by their own little version of the meaning of the word.

I would say the baulking is more akin to you and your movement- hate being called out on anything. Hate having people see right through your label of 'friendly socialist who loves everyone- except 'white privileged'

Are we allowed to call black privately educated millionaires and  billionaires 'black privileged'.


ahh reminds me of another socialist movement- loved everyone except Jews... Hmm AH  Yes, National Socialism - Germany.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 27, 2020, 05:35:44 PM
Very true in Britain many other races do experience racism but it is not racist for BLM to want to bring attention to the racism targeted at them.  Hurley wasn’t silenced, he was cut off as many guests are when it is either the top of the hour or they have to go to an ad break. Of course it would be a good start for all youths to abandon the knife carrying culture that seems to be so prevalent now...or do you condone white youths carrying them ?

It is racism to attack white police officers because they are white! There is no getting away from that .
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 27, 2020, 05:37:08 PM
'We've got into a vicious circle with police officers dealing with young black people, who always come to the perspective that the police are trying to suppress them.

'And the police very quickly come to learn that dealing with young black people is quite frankly aggravation that puts their careers and mortgages at risk.

'That's the reason why so many black youth are killing each other in London, because the police have given up trying to stop them carrying knives and guns and killing each other.'

Ain’t it the truth.

Either the black community wants the help of the police in attempting to stop knife crime and should stop shouting “racist” when police stop and search black youth, or they don’t and instead let their children continue killing each other unimpeded by officers of the law.  Which is it to be?

Very good post and very true!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 27, 2020, 11:59:07 PM
I do not baulk, I have no reason to.

 I have not pinned labels on anyone. BLM are using their race to commit all sorts of crimes So, if the  gown fits ...


Anyone who knows me knows I am not a racist in the true meaning of the word as I explained that earlier, according to the left wing/Marxist/Stalinist movement I am very much a racist by their own little version of the meaning of the word.

I would say the baulking is more akin to you and your movement- hate being called out on anything. Hate having people see right through your label of 'friendly socialist who loves everyone- except 'white privileged'

Are we allowed to call black privately educated millionaires and  billionaires 'black privileged'.


ahh reminds me of another socialist movement- loved everyone except Jews... Hmm AH  Yes, National Socialism - Germany.

So you’re a racist...just not in the true meaning...noted.

No point in discussing the concept of white privilege with you because again like Stalinism you obviously don’t understand it.

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 12:03:39 AM
Very good post and very true!

Ahhh isn’t it lovely seeing two opponents bond over a spot of racial stereotyping. Group hug.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 28, 2020, 12:25:04 AM
So you’re a racist...just not in the true meaning...noted.

No point in discussing the concept of white privilege with you because again like Stalinism you obviously don’t understand it.

Taxes, bills, goods & services cost me the same as it does to a black, asian or hispanic guy & I still haven't received any white privilege cheques in the mail.


Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 12:38:26 AM
Taxes, bills, goods & services cost me the same as it does to a black, asian or hispanic guy & I still haven't received any white privilege cheques in the mail.

No cheques...just better terms and conditions.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 28, 2020, 01:06:34 AM
No cheques...just better terms and conditions.

Such as?

Everyone has the same rights, freedoms & opportunities in this country & in the U.S.

There are black doctors, police officers, politicians celebrities, sports men & women etc etc.

If anything blacks are over represented in media & sports here in the UK considering they make up only 3% of the population.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 01:27:28 AM
Such as?

Everyone has the same rights, freedoms & opportunities in this country & in the U.S.

There are black doctors, police officers, politicians celebrities, sports men & women etc etc.

If anything blacks are over represented in media & sports here in the UK considering they make up only 3% of the population.

Ask any black doctor, police officer or politician and they will tell you that it’s been twice as difficult for them to attain the position they have than if they’d been white. Read the research.

And while blacks may be over represented in sport that’s not down to equal rights but raw talent. You ask any of those sports stars if they had to deal with racism growing up and what do you think the answer will be ? Why do you think we have to have the Kick It Out campaign in football ? Have you heard the racist chants directed a black players ?

As to everyone having the same freedoms, rights and opportunities in this country you tell that to a disabled person of any colour.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 01:39:57 AM
Black Met police officer.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/15/black-police-officer-met-institutionally-racist-bame-officers
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 28, 2020, 04:39:45 AM
Ask any black doctor, police officer or politician and they will tell you that it’s been twice as difficult for them to attain the position they have than if they’d been white. Read the research.

And while blacks may be over represented in sport that’s not down to equal rights but raw talent. You ask any of those sports stars if they had to deal with racism growing up and what do you think the answer will be ? Why do you think we have to have the Kick It Out campaign in football ? Have you heard the racist chants directed a black players ?

As to everyone having the same freedoms, rights and opportunities in this country you tell that to a disabled person of any colour.

We have the kick it out campaign in football because football fans are notoriously drunken racist thugs.

We don't have a need for similar campaigns in cricket or tennis for example. You'd think that would be needed if racism is so widespread. But it isn't.

Are black disabled people exempt from disability benefits? I never knew that. That does sound pretty racist.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 28, 2020, 08:37:58 AM
Matthew Syed in today’s ST making EXACTLY the point I was making but which was soundly ignored by our resident BLM supporter, in favourof a cheap ad hom insult.

“The most high-profile policy associated with Black Lives Matter is to “defund the police”, but this only zeroes in on the problem. Because nobody is talking about the structure of inequality, only its symbolism, the “solutions” are incoherent. Studies have shown that when police are absent from high-crime neighbourhoods, black people suffer most. A study by Roland Fryer, a black Harvard academic, found that in the aftermath of social media campaigns condemning police departments, officers were less proactive in tackling criminals, fearing they might end up on the wrong end of a judgment call. The result? A thousand extra murders over two years, the majority of victims black”.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 10:31:54 AM
We have the kick it out campaign in football because football fans are notoriously drunken racist thugs.

We don't have a need for similar campaigns in cricket or tennis for example. You'd think that would be needed if racism is so widespread. But it isn't.

Are black disabled people exempt from disability benefits? I never knew that. That does sound pretty racist.

Not sure the point your making with your first comment. Are you saying that the millions of football fans in this country are all racist thugs ?

Your second comment to my disabled point makes even less sense. It is interesting though that you seem to conflate disability and benefits. Do you believe that that is the only freedom or opportunity disabled people should expect?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 28, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
Not sure the point your making with your first comment. Are you saying that the millions of football fans in this country are all racist thugs ?

Your second comment to my disabled point makes even less sense. It is interesting though that you seem to conflate disability and benefits. Do you believe that that is the only freedom or opportunity disabled people should expect?

No, just that there are racist football fans, but that doesn't prove the existence of any 'white privilege'.

And black disabled people aren't discriminated against by any system any more than white disabled people are.

I've never seen any 'white only' stair lifts or wheelchair ramps.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
No, just that there are racist football fans, but that doesn't prove the existence of any 'white privilege'.

And black disabled people aren't discriminated against by any system any more than white disabled people are.

I've never seen any 'white only' stair lifts or wheelchair ramps.

It does prove an inherent racism within the British culture.

As to the disability issue I was making a broader point about discrimination and bigotry. You said ‘ Everyone has the same rights, freedoms & opportunities in this country & in the U.S.’.....that is palpably untrue.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 12:00:57 PM
So you’re a racist...just not in the true meaning...noted.

No point in discussing the concept of white privilege with you because again like Stalinism you obviously don’t understand it.

Noted by the thought police? yes! Pity you have no control over them, must be awful having people who do not hold your political view in high esteem.
Reminds me of this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmF_yXQkVh0

I very much do understand the mindset of the communists and Stalin in particular. You make the point very clearly. You support BLM and black murders/rapists but have an uncomfortable relationship with white privileged people.
However, failing to acknowledge that it is the same 'white privileged' who pay for the poor  put upon black people.

Why not pop over to AFRICA and see for yourself what blacks do to one another and not a racist word is mentioned! funny that!

It is YOU who is racist. Your chosen political affiliation pick and chose who to support and are trying to divide this country.  Perhaps you should go to the Camps in France and ask them why they would want to come to the UK as it is very racist.

Oh the romantic notions of a revolutionary!


" Ahhh isn’t it lovely seeing two opponents bond over a spot of racial stereotyping. Group hug."

This has been missed by you. I do not have my opinions set in stone via a group policy entrenched in a political party. as you do.

I see things and comment on them- I disagree with many friends and family on some issues, but there is no hate or malice present.

 It is called independent thinking-free speech and adult debate with respect.

I don't belong to any gang!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 12:06:12 PM
No cheques...just better terms and conditions.

That is an outrageous thing to say. Black judges .lawyers,doctors,nurses, taxi drivers do not get paid less. downright lie!

Ofcourse the black slaves being sent over by black African slavers on boats to this country will get paid nothing. BUT it is racist to call black slavers slave traders, they are helping our economy apparently.  And they are not called slaves when cought, they are called 'refugees'
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 28, 2020, 12:39:59 PM
It does prove an inherent racism within the British culture.

As to the disability issue I was making a broader point about discrimination and bigotry. You said ‘ Everyone has the same rights, freedoms & opportunities in this country & in the U.S.’.....that is palpably untrue.

No it isn't.

If it was then all the black people would be living in ghettos, would never be able to get jobs or be able to succeed in society.

Prior to the corona virus outbreak the current white privileged racist in office in the U.S had overseen the lowest black unemployment figures ever recorded.

& as it happens white racist America voted for a black president, twice, which you would think would be a complete impossibility in a country so apparently rife with inequality & a lack of freedom & opportunity.

Furthermore, if black people have it so damn hard in this country & in the U.S, maybe they should all try moving to Africa to see how much better life there is.

I hear Zimbabwe in particular is a beacon of economic success since they sent the white devil man home.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 28, 2020, 12:59:01 PM
Hmm.  It's absurd to claim there is no racism or inequality in America or Britain, of course it exists, just as it does in every country on the planet.  It's a fact of life, of human existence.  Humans are imperfect.  There are ways and means of addressing the issue however which shouldn't necessarily involve whites having to subjugate themselves, grovel, apologise for the past, and destroy anything that was ever connected no matter how remotely to something that by modern standards is now considered racist.  A bit of perspective and understanding from all sides wouldn't go amiss.  A bit of grown up thinking, and less childish petulance.  Of course so much of this is driven by extreme left wing ideology, using the issue to drive their own sinister agendas.  IMO.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 04:40:38 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/28/black-teenager-on-family-cycle-ride-injured-during-aggressive-police-arrest?CMP=share_btn_fb
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
No it isn't.

If it was then all the black people would be living in ghettos, would never be able to get jobs or be able to succeed in society.

Prior to the corona virus outbreak the current white privileged racist in office in the U.S had overseen the lowest black unemployment figures ever recorded.

& as it happens white racist America voted for a black president, twice, which you would think would be a complete impossibility in a country so apparently rife with inequality & a lack of freedom & opportunity.

Furthermore, if black people have it so damn hard in this country & in the U.S, maybe they should all try moving to Africa to see how much better life there is.

I hear Zimbabwe in particular is a beacon of economic success since they sent the white devil man home.

And there we have it....‘why don’t they f*ck off back to their own country’...the tag line of racists through history.

Thank you...you’ve just proved my position for me.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 28, 2020, 05:28:11 PM
And there we have it....‘why don’t they f*ck off back to their own country’...the tag line of racists through history.

Thank you...you’ve just proved my position for me.

Except for the fact that I never said that.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 05:29:38 PM
Except for the fact that I never said that.

Did I forget to add the ‘ if they don’t like it ‘ ?

Apologies.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 09:11:09 PM
And there we have it....‘why don’t they f*ck off back to their own country’...the tag line of racists through history.

Thank you...you’ve just proved my position for me.

No, he just gave you an opinion of options of what you believe he thinks... thought police again.. I went to AFRICA to do some work  with my husband we were invited to stay for 6 months- I hated it, I couldn't adjust to their way of life.  and came home. Do you think me moaning about what I hate about where I was, the rulers were going to change everything to keep me there? Did that make them racists ? no!

Well here is an out and out nasty racist...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8466913/Award-winning-charity-boss-SACKED-criticising-Black-Lives-Matters-neo-Marxist-agenda.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on June 28, 2020, 09:51:58 PM
No, he just gave you an opinion of options of what you believe he thinks... thought police again.. I went to AFRICA to do some work  with my husband we were invited to stay for 6 months- I hated it, I couldn't adjust to their way of life.  and came home. Do you think me moaning about what I hate about where I was, the rulers were going to change everything to keep me there? Did that make them racists ? no!

Well here is an out and out nasty racist...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8466913/Award-winning-charity-boss-SACKED-criticising-Black-Lives-Matters-neo-Marxist-agenda.html

How many BLM supporters do you think were born in the U.K. ? If your answer is a great many, I agree but it does make your little anecdote rather irrelevant.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Davel on July 05, 2020, 09:22:01 AM
Actress behind BLM protest in Whitehall disowns 'Marxist' Black Lives Matter, saying it's a separate group 'hijacked' by far-Left activists who want to tear down capitalism and abolish the police
Imarn Ayton said that she was behind two Black Lives Matters protests in London
The actress believes the BLM movement has been hijacked by far-Left activists
She claims BLM UK, a campaign group, is now at the forefront of the movement
Ms Ayton, 29, said that the group used a skillful social media campaign to do this



Some of us saw this coming but respect to her for speaking out.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8490319/Actress-BLM-rally-Whitehall-disowns-Black-Lives-Matter-UK-hijacked-far-Left.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 05, 2020, 09:59:32 AM
Actress behind BLM protest in Whitehall disowns 'Marxist' Black Lives Matter, saying it's a separate group 'hijacked' by far-Left activists who want to tear down capitalism and abolish the police
Imarn Ayton said that she was behind two Black Lives Matters protests in London
The actress believes the BLM movement has been hijacked by far-Left activists
She claims BLM UK, a campaign group, is now at the forefront of the movement
Ms Ayton, 29, said that the group used a skillful social media campaign to do this



Some of us saw this coming but respect to her for speaking out.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8490319/Actress-BLM-rally-Whitehall-disowns-Black-Lives-Matter-UK-hijacked-far-Left.html
Well it is as plain as the nose on your face, but good for her for saying so.  Now watch as she is shot down in flames by the Corbyn Fan Club.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 05, 2020, 09:28:29 PM
Actress behind BLM protest in Whitehall disowns 'Marxist' Black Lives Matter, saying it's a separate group 'hijacked' by far-Left activists who want to tear down capitalism and abolish the police
Imarn Ayton said that she was behind two Black Lives Matters protests in London
The actress believes the BLM movement has been hijacked by far-Left activists
She claims BLM UK, a campaign group, is now at the forefront of the movement
Ms Ayton, 29, said that the group used a skillful social media campaign to do this



Some of us saw this coming but respect to her for speaking out.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8490319/Actress-BLM-rally-Whitehall-disowns-Black-Lives-Matter-UK-hijacked-far-Left.html

Yes, and she isn't a lone voiced either!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8475911/Terry-Crews-says-Black-Lives-Matter-shouldnt-turn-Black-Lives-Better.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9LdwtW2eJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi2hqL5KkHc


and the bleeding heart socialists  labour controlled council can get on their one knee about this scandal!!
Non black slaves don't matter-apparently they don't exist.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8491345/Leicester-mayor-warned-clothing-factories-no-social-distancing-failed-act.html





Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on July 06, 2020, 03:39:53 PM
The thing that shames us all is the Black Lives Matters movement was actually needed.....and yet it goes on.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/linford-christie-athletes-met-stop-and-search-twitter-video-racism-a9602766.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 06, 2020, 04:34:26 PM
The thing that shames us all is the Black Lives Matters movement was actually needed.....and yet it goes on.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/linford-christie-athletes-met-stop-and-search-twitter-video-racism-a9602766.html

It doesn't shame me at all. I was not party to anything the USA police do to their suspects. And I and many others would appreciate not being labelled as part of a problem, which we do not support!

The police were acting accordingly, they suspected something about blacked out windows. I have been pulled over three times in the past 2 years for  random 'checks' on my car in various parts of Scotland.

We can't be going with the Police being afraid to stop and question people  if they suspect something, we can't be having another ASIAN RAPE GANG scandal getting away with it for years due to the appeasement. And not allowing their culture to be questioned.

More white people are stopped and suffer abuse by police than blacks.I ma a testament to that as mistaken for someone else in a serious crime- it was horrendous!If I were black I could play a race card!
Majority of people are white in this country- they get stopped and searched, questioned- No marches and no-one kneeling! Because white people are happy to be rid of such criminals from their communities- Certain black folks seem to want this lawlessness in theirs.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 06, 2020, 04:37:51 PM
The thing that shames us all is the Black Lives Matters movement was actually needed.....and yet it goes on.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/linford-christie-athletes-met-stop-and-search-twitter-video-racism-a9602766.html

Maybe if blacks tried committing less crime, then they wouldn't be stopped & searched as much.

Or is that too simplistic?
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: faithlilly on July 06, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
Aaaaaand this is where I take my leave. I am becoming increasingly aware that by posting on this thread I am giving you both a platform to spout your vile racism.

All I can say is I’m glad you’re not a part of my community.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 06, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Aaaaaand this is where I take my leave. I am becoming increasingly aware that by posting on this thread I am giving you both a platform to spout your vile racism.

All I can say is I’m glad you’re not a part of my community.


You are taking your leave because we do not share your views- you are a lone voice on this thread and as expected you pull the race card. You have no real argument to establish your claims of racism of posters on here.
If you have I would be delighted to read them.

You show yourself up to be intolerant of other peoples views, which is what all left wing Marxist/Stalinist do.


This guy looks a bit shifty> He was pulled over because he looks non white? OR maybe because the police caught him endangering life? Maybe the police were Celtic supporters? double whammy!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-star-jordan-jones-caught-22309681
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 06, 2020, 05:53:00 PM


In 2017 two thirds of knife crime offenders under 25 in London were black or minority ethnic.

https://fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/

Facts are racist.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 06, 2020, 05:59:42 PM

In 2017 two thirds of knife crime offenders under 25 in London were black or minority ethnic.

https://fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/

Facts are racist.


Also  more racist facts:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmeduc/142/142.pdf
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 06, 2020, 07:05:44 PM
Who wrote this?

“It is now completely clear to me that he, as is proved by his cranial formation and his hair, descends from the Negroes who had joined Moses’ exodus from Egypt, assuming that his mother or grandmother on the paternal side had not interbred with a n****r. Now this union of Judaism and Germanism with a basic Negro substance must produce a peculiar product”.

And this

“What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. … Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man—and turns them into commodities. … The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. … The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general”.

I’ll give you a clue - his tomb can be found in Highgate Cemetery where it is revered by members of the far left, many of whom are proud to label themselves his followers.  You won’t find many BLM or Jeremy Corby Fan Club members calling for HIS statue to be rolled across the car park and chucked in the Thames!
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 06, 2020, 07:11:12 PM
The racism of socialism

https://fee.org/articles/anti-racists-should-think-twice-about-allying-with-socialism/
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 07, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
Fidel Castro, hero of the far left, presided over an institutionally racist Cuba for most of his entire dictatorship.  Anyone who believes racism is a preserve of the far right needs to give their head a wobble.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Cuba#Cuban_Revolution
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 08, 2020, 06:29:27 PM


Fourth of July weekend shootings result in the deaths of at least 6 children


(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/07/1862/1048/gun-violence-deaths.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)

No protests, no riots, no looting, no golden coffins or televised state funerals.

Black Lives only matter to Black Lives Matter when they are killed by a cop or a white man.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fourth-of-july-weekend-shootings
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 08, 2020, 08:47:12 PM
Spam, using these poor children to make a political point is tasteless in the extreme.  do you actually give a shit about murdered black American children?  I very much doubt it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 08, 2020, 08:58:39 PM
Spam, using these poor children to make a political point is tasteless in the extreme.  do you actually give a shit about murdered black American children?  I very much doubt it.

It doesn't affect me personally no, but I do think it's disgusting that young children are gunned down on a regular basis by gangsta thugs, while the BLM movement focuses on the very tiny minority of people that are killed by the police.

There's a serious problem in the black communities that are mostly within democrat run cities.

BLM plays politics with peoples lives, Do you think any of them really gave a toss about George Floyd while they raided the Nike stores for free trainers?

I don't see the problem in me pointing out what a bunch of total hypocrites they are.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 08, 2020, 09:01:38 PM
It doesn't affect me personally no, but I do think it's disgusting that young children are gunned down on a regular basis by gangsta thugs, while the BLM movement focuses on the very tiny minority of people that are killed by the police.

There's a serious problem in the black communities that are mostly within democrat run cities.

BLM plays politics with peoples lives, Do you think any of them really gave a toss about George Floyd while they raided the Nike stores for free trainers?

I don't see the problem in me pointing out what a bunch of total hypocrites they are.
I think you’re conflating BLM supporters with rioters and looters.  There may well be an overlap, but to say that genuine BLM supporters don’t give a toss about actual black lives is ridiculous IMO.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 08, 2020, 09:11:23 PM
I think you’re conflating BLM supporters with rioters and looters.  There may well be an overlap, but to say that genuine BLM supporters don’t give a toss about actual black lives is ridiculous IMO.

So if they do give a toss.....where are they in relation to the deaths of the 6 black children that were killed at the weekend?

Have you seen them even mention it anywhere?

I'm a member of BLM on facebook, there isn't a single post about these children on their page.
No thoughts & prayers, nothing.

Like I said, there's is an anti cop movement with no real concern for black lives, unless they are killed by cops.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 08, 2020, 10:38:44 PM
So if they do give a toss.....where are they in relation to the deaths of the 6 black children that were killed at the weekend?

Have you seen them even mention it anywhere?

I'm a member of BLM on facebook, there isn't a single post about these children on their page.
No thoughts & prayers, nothing.

Like I said, there's is an anti cop movement with no real concern for black lives, unless they are killed by cops.
Perhaps you should make a post about it and see what the response is.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 08, 2020, 10:43:25 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/08/gun-deaths-affect-more-white-men-than-black-men/
A bullet lays beside an evidence marker at a crime scene in the Brooklyn borough of New York City on Sunday.
A bullet lays beside an evidence marker at a crime scene in the Brooklyn borough of New York City on Sunday. (Lloyd Mitchell/Reuters)
The “what about black-on-black crime” rejoinder usually is meant to imply that African Americans are indifferent to the thousands of young black men — and increasingly, black children — who are slain every year in gun violence. It insinuates that black people blithely accept killings by our own that have racked some communities for decades and only take to the streets when the crime is committed by white police officers.

Long before March for Our Lives and Black Lives Matter dominated the headlines in recent years, African Americans were marching in crime-ridden neighborhoods to protest the killings. Davon McNeal, an 11-year-old fatally shot in Washington, D.C., on July 4, had just left an anti-violence community event when he was hit by a bullet. The event was put together by his mother, Crystal McNeal, who works as a “violence interrupter,” a job that has been created in several urban areas with a goal to mediate neighborhood disputes in an attempt to break the cycle of retaliatory killings. Black citizens have formed hundreds of such organizations to save teens so often caught up in that world. Black artists have written songs and made movies, urging youths to stop the violence.

Many black people, desperate to stem the homicide rate that spiraled in the ’90s, even supported the Clinton crime bill, although some now criticize it as having hurt the black community more than it helped. A Gallup survey in 1994 found that nonwhite citizens favored it to a greater degree than white citizens, 58 percent compared with 49 percent.

As a group, African Americans are consistently more likely to be concerned about crime than white Americans. They also are the staunchest supporters of tougher gun control laws, with 72 percent saying that controlling gun ownership is more important than protecting gun rights, compared with 40 percent of white people.

White men, in fact, are the demographic most likely to oppose gun control laws of any kind, although statistics show that they might benefit most from them.

That’s because the majority of the gun deaths in the United States are not homicides but suicides, and white men account for 74 percent of them. More than 288,000 white males fatally shot themselves between 1999 and 2018, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Having access to a gun triples the risk of death by suicide. In other words, if white men didn’t have so many guns, they would be much less likely to die.

Despite the evidence, 60 percent of white Americans say gun ownership does more to protect people from crime than to put their personal safety at risk (35 percent), according to Pew. Black people by a similar margin (56 percent to 37 percent) say that gun ownership does more to endanger people’s personal safety.

While most violent crime has fallen dramatically since the early 1990s, gun violence began rising again in recent years. In 2018, the most recent year for complete data, more than 22,000 Americans intentionally killed themselves with a gun and about 11,000 people were gun homicide victims. The suicide numbers inched up from the previous year, while homicides were down slightly.

Efforts to reduce firearms deaths have been hindered not by community indifference but by a Congress afraid to cross the National Rifle Association and gun-rights supporters. Federally funded research into gun violence solutions ground to a halt after lawmakers passed the Dickey Amendment in 1996. The provision, pushed by the NRA, cut funding for the Centers for Disease Control’s study of the issue out of fear that it would be seen as federal agencies advocating for gun control.

Even faced with repeated mass shootings that have killed hundreds of innocent people, including schoolchildren, Congress has refused to act. That’s how strongly Republicans and some otherwise liberal Democrats fear offending white voters in swing states more concerned with protecting Second Amendment rights than saving lives, including their own.

Suicide affects white males in nearly every age group, with numbers beginning to rise in the late teen years and peaking in the mid-to-late 50s. But the rate remains high even among men in their 70s and 80s. The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention says that suicide most often is the result of treatable mental health issues and is related to brain functions that affect decision-making and behavioral control. As with the homicide rate, however, the reasons behind suicide are more complicated than a single issue. “Life stresses combined with known risk factors, such as childhood trauma, substance use — or even chronic physical pain — can contribute” to someone taking their life, the AFSP said.

Similarly, research has found that many young black men — the group most likely to be perpetrators and victims of gun homicides — suffer from a condition similar to PTSD, brought on by repeated exposure to violence, extreme poverty, high unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse and other social ills that create a sense of hopelessness. A 2017 report in the Guardian newspaper found that much of America’s gun homicide problem “happens in a relatively small number of predictable places, often driven by predictable groups of high-risk people, and its burden is anything but random.”

With so much media focus on urban homicides — many local news outlets keep a running tally — suicide, which kills twice as many people, gets comparatively less coverage. Some argue that suicide is a private matter that doesn’t impact the broader community. Prevention experts discourage news media from reporting intimate details of suicide cases because research has found that can lead to imitation in vulnerable people. But even general news stories about suicide have tended to focus more on the increasing rates among other demographic groups than on white men’s stark over-representation in the statistics. That seems to be changing now as the numbers climb. Still, the result of such historically lopsided coverage is that the public face of gun violence in this country is that of a young black man rather than a middle-aged white one.

“Reporting the truth about who’s committing suicide would require acknowledging that the contemporary narrative — in which men in general and white men in particular are a universally privileged class and have no legitimate problems — is false,” columnist Armin Brott wrote last year in a health and wellness newsletter.

When white men respond to their life circumstances with gun violence, it’s treated as a public health problem, brought on by mental illness and stress. When black men do, it’s portrayed almost solely as a criminal issue, caused by lawlessness and moral failing. The multiplier in both epidemics is lawmakers’ blind devotion to the NRA. Zealously protecting their right to bear arms has come at a huge cost, and as quiet as it is kept, it’s not just the black community that is paying.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 10, 2020, 01:27:20 AM

Putting up posters displaying the phrase  'It's okay to be white' is now considered a hate crime worthy of police investigation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-53246478

What are we to make of this?

Is it not okay to be white?

That seems rather racist to me.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2020, 08:53:49 PM
The racism of socialism

https://fee.org/articles/anti-racists-should-think-twice-about-allying-with-socialism/

I always take every opportunity to point out that Nazis were National Socialists so, socialist are more nazi than I every could be! But oh...
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2020, 09:03:53 PM
I think you’re conflating BLM supporters with rioters and looters.  There may well be an overlap, but to say that genuine BLM supporters don’t give a toss about actual black lives is ridiculous IMO.

I disagree with that VS.

 Many blacks do not subscribe to the political where for all with BLM. Many shun it and denounce it. now they lose jobs and homes because of speaking up against a very small minority, and this is because as Spammers points out BLM is a political movement and they require 'useful idiots' to carry out their fund raining hell raising agenda!

I also agree that if BLM really thought black mattered they would look at themselves as a community and stop the crime if they do not want the 'white police' to try and stop it. Because many black folks are sick of having to live in crime ridden thug controlled areas!  Many black women are fretful of their children being 'adopted' by brotherhoods in neighborhoods- who incidentally 'hate the police' for 'picking' on them.

Those gorgeous little girls deserved better- shame on the BML for not mentioning it.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 11, 2020, 11:40:04 PM
I disagree with that VS.

 Many blacks do not subscribe to the political where for all with BLM. Many shun it and denounce it. now they lose jobs and homes because of speaking up against a very small minority, and this is because as Spammers points out BLM is a political movement and they require 'useful idiots' to carry out their fund raining hell raising agenda!

I also agree that if BLM really thought black mattered they would look at themselves as a community and stop the crime if they do not want the 'white police' to try and stop it. Because many black folks are sick of having to live in crime ridden thug controlled areas!  Many black women are fretful of their children being 'adopted' by brotherhoods in neighborhoods- who incidentally 'hate the police' for 'picking' on them.

Those gorgeous little girls deserved better- shame on the BML for not mentioning it.
Black Lives Matter exists to address the issue of racism against blacks, specifically institutionalised racism in organisations like the police.  So demanding BLM focus on the issue of black on black crimes is missing the point somewhat.  I have no doubt that you can be a BLM supporter AND care deeply about the issue of b on b crime, it’s about finding the right ways of addressing the issue, and the article I posted above touches on that.   I do agree that BLM is a now far left political movement even if that’s not how it started out, and that its agenda is worrying for blacks and whites alike. 
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 12, 2020, 12:18:43 AM
Black Lives Matter exists specially to address the issue of racism against blacks, specifically institutionalised racism in organisations like the police.  So demanding BLM focus on the issue of black on black crimes is missing the point somewhat.  I have no doubt that you can be a BLM supporter AND care deeply about the issue of b on b crime, it’s about finding the right ways of addressing the issue, and the article I posted above touches on that.   I do agree that BLM is a now far left political movement even if that’s not how it started out, and that its agenda is worrying for blacks and whites alike.

Yes, and as with  institutionalised racism, and cultural profiling which is abhorrent and should be addressed. This is a policing issue,individual officers behaving like that, not with the blessing of the public in general or their Commanding officers. So white people do not have to accept responsibility for their crimes!  However, this has grown into something much bigger and deadlier.

I had this discussion with my husband who isn't white.  He was very honest about what it feels like being the target of racists-(Not the idiot name calling and chants for the sake of it) he described it as, you know that feeling of being a woman who has to put up with unwanted groping on tubes,workplace etc and you feel belittled and self conscious and aware people, mainly men think it is ok? that is the same feeling.  I thanked him for acknowledging discrimination- as that is what real racism is and not the name calling. He also confirmed that in many countries name calling is rife among different factions- no one died from name calling- people died through hatred of others ideology! aint that the truth.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 13, 2020, 02:12:53 PM

BBC Children in Need has announced it will be matching Stormzy in pledging £10m to fight racial inequality in the UK.

It'll donate the money over 10 years and work with Radio 1Xtra to develop young black talent in the media.

Stormzy says the money will help "in supporting and strengthening the young black community".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53388774

I heard this news on the radio today & thought.....


Could we have a white celebrity donate to & create a fund to support & develop exclusively young white talent in media ?

Or might that be considered a bit racist?

Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 02:19:54 PM
BBC Children in Need has announced it will be matching Stormzy in pledging £10m to fight racial inequality in the UK.

It'll donate the money over 10 years and work with Radio 1Xtra to develop young black talent in the media.

Stormzy says the money will help "in supporting and strengthening the young black community".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53388774

I heard this news on the radio today & thought.....


Could we have a white celebrity donate to & create a fund to support & develop exclusively young white talent in media ?

Or might that be considered a bit racist?


Yes, very racist, because no people with black skin have managed to get any success in the Uk  media or anywhere else due to being held back and not developed/supported properly.

Sport
music
no blacks are allowed to take part due to racism.  oh wait...
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 19, 2020, 09:02:18 AM
An example of the world we live in today

“An eminent professor of history asserts that not absolutely everything about colonialism was bad, even if in general it was “bad”. He is denounced by all of his colleagues as a white supremacist and a petition is got up to have him defrocked, or whatever you do to dodgy academics. And yet the suggestion “not everything that came from colonialism was bad” is patently true — even if it was only the building of a railway, or a bridge, or a school — and his infuriated colleagues know this. But they cannot bear to accept it because it introduces that awful thing, nuance.

As Orwell had it, in a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act”.

Rod Liddle today’s ST
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 19, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
An example of the world we live in today

“An eminent professor of history asserts that not absolutely everything about colonialism was bad, even if in general it was “bad”. He is denounced by all of his colleagues as a white supremacist and a petition is got up to have him defrocked, or whatever you do to dodgy academics. And yet the suggestion “not everything that came from colonialism was bad” is patently true — even if it was only the building of a railway, or a bridge, or a school — and his infuriated colleagues know this. But they cannot bear to accept it because it introduces that awful thing, nuance.

As Orwell had it, in a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act”.

Rod Liddle today’s ST

And sadly he isn't the only one.

This is a very good write up ok daily mai,l but still, very to the point. Don't read if you are a left wing nazi.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8537583/JOHN-GRAY-not-exaggeration-compare-methods-new-woke-movement-Maos-Red-Guards.html
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 19, 2020, 10:40:57 PM
And sadly he isn't the only one.

This is a very good write up ok daily mai,l but still, very to the point. Don't read if you are a left wing nazi.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8537583/JOHN-GRAY-not-exaggeration-compare-methods-new-woke-movement-Maos-Red-Guards.html
Left wing Nazis are the ones who need to read this article and then explain why they think cancel culture and shutting down free speech is such a good idea.
Title: Re: British History Matters!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 20, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
Left wing Nazis are the ones who need to read this article and then explain why they think cancel culture and shutting down free speech is such a good idea.

Yes. wouldn't it be great if someone from the MSN did ASK those difficult questions. Although, It looks like we are too late the foot soldiers have been brainwashed already.
Who would be eliminated when the powers that be (not known to them,YET) have no further use for those 'useful idiots'.

The Thunberg cult will disperse when parents die and they have to do EVERYTHING for themselves.

It is also interesting there were no riots and kneeling when it was shown that two non white billionaires were using cheap labour with harsh working conditions to make  'designer' clothes. Funny that!

Cancel culture? I want more of the same- cancel funding to 'universities' which are not really academic places of learning. Just old done up collages.