Author Topic: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party  (Read 4538 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2020, 09:28:16 AM »
Several countries have seen a second wave after relaxing controls slightly, the likelihood is the virus will return too later in the year when more deaths will be inevitable.  Should we start blaming the government for these deaths now, or wait till they happen, which they will if the lockdown is relaxed?

I'm interested in how Germany will go about it as they ease some restrictions.  They handled Covid-19 entirely differently from us right from the beginning and it might even have long term results for them that no one envisaged
https://thepienews.com/news/interest-studying-in-germany-grows-as-covid-19-response-praised/

Their strategy was tracing and testing and grasping the nettle right from the start.  Our strengths for protection has lain in that we are an island nation and we couldn't even carry out the basics as far as utilising that advantage was concerned.

I'm blaming the government for the manner in which they downplayed the seriousness of the situation initially.  Look no further than Boris Johnson's early sense of urgency https://www.axios.com/boris-johnson-skipped-five-virus-briefings-in-early-days-of-pandemic-968d6e1a-b89a-4ff1-b32d-580b8d51e7db.html in conjunction with what his thoughts were on social distancing for himself and the result of perhaps shaking one hand too many.

I've not yet had the heart to make any detailed comparisons with Germany of the deaths of care home residents and their carers but our figures are I think outstanding enough to raise concern.

Our unpreparedness for the initial arrival of Covid-19 (for which there was plenty of forewarning) and the glaring failures of PPE and testing are issues which I am expecting Keir Starmer to address in calling the government to account.

I think that much is owed to the people who have died as a result and when the lockdown is eased ... as it surely must be at some time in the future I hope the government doesn't do its own thing because I really don't think they are terribly good at it - but watches and learns from the experience of others.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2020, 10:11:12 AM »
I'm interested in how Germany will go about it as they ease some restrictions.  They handled Covid-19 entirely differently from us right from the beginning and it might even have long term results for them that no one envisaged
https://thepienews.com/news/interest-studying-in-germany-grows-as-covid-19-response-praised/

Their strategy was tracing and testing and grasping the nettle right from the start.  Our strengths for protection has lain in that we are an island nation and we couldn't even carry out the basics as far as utilising that advantage was concerned.

I'm blaming the government for the manner in which they downplayed the seriousness of the situation initially.  Look no further than Boris Johnson's early sense of urgency https://www.axios.com/boris-johnson-skipped-five-virus-briefings-in-early-days-of-pandemic-968d6e1a-b89a-4ff1-b32d-580b8d51e7db.html in conjunction with what his thoughts were on social distancing for himself and the result of perhaps shaking one hand too many.

I've not yet had the heart to make any detailed comparisons with Germany of the deaths of care home residents and their carers but our figures are I think outstanding enough to raise concern.

Our unpreparedness for the initial arrival of Covid-19 (for which there was plenty of forewarning) and the glaring failures of PPE and testing are issues which I am expecting Keir Starmer to address in calling the government to account.

I think that much is owed to the people who have died as a result and when the lockdown is eased ... as it surely must be at some time in the future I hope the government doesn't do its own thing because I really don't think they are terribly good at it - but watches and learns from the experience of others.

Excellent post Brietta and I, like you, hope Starmer has the courage to hold this government to account for its many, and obvious, failures.

Offline Davel

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2020, 10:16:22 AM »
Excellent post Brietta and I, like you, hope Starmer has the courage to hold this government to account for its many, and obvious, failures.

One of the first things hes done is to ask steven lawrences mother to look into the deaths of BAME in the covid outbrake...what aridiculous thing to do. Hes looking for a racist angle....any investigation needs to be carried out by scientists.....of all races

Offline Davel

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2020, 10:17:44 AM »
Excellent post Brietta and I, like you, hope Starmer has the courage to hold this government to account for its many, and obvious, failures.

Hopefully hes got more sense than to use this situation as  apolitical point scoring exercise as you want to do

Offline Brietta

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2020, 10:55:31 AM »
Hopefully hes got more sense than to use this situation as  apolitical point scoring exercise as you want to do

I think when this is 'over' we are going to face huge differences in our lives as individuals and as a Nation.  I think Starmer will acquit himself well under those circumstances.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Davel

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2020, 11:03:49 AM »
I think when this is 'over' we are going to face huge differences in our lives as individuals and as a Nation.  I think Starmer will acquit himself well under those circumstances.

I'm not so sure... Appointing Baroness Lawrence to lead an enquiry seems to me he's approaching it with a bias.
Almost as if he wants to find a social reason he can blame the govt for... Which to anyone who understands the situation is ridiculous

Offline Davel

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2020, 11:15:40 AM »
I'm interested in how Germany will go about it as they ease some restrictions.  They handled Covid-19 entirely differently from us right from the beginning and it might even have long term results for them that no one envisaged
https://thepienews.com/news/interest-studying-in-germany-grows-as-covid-19-response-praised/

Their strategy was tracing and testing and grasping the nettle right from the start.  Our strengths for protection has lain in that we are an island nation and we couldn't even carry out the basics as far as utilising that advantage was concerned.

I'm blaming the government for the manner in which they downplayed the seriousness of the situation initially.  Look no further than Boris Johnson's early sense of urgency https://www.axios.com/boris-johnson-skipped-five-virus-briefings-in-early-days-of-pandemic-968d6e1a-b89a-4ff1-b32d-580b8d51e7db.html in conjunction with what his thoughts were on social distancing for himself and the result of perhaps shaking one hand too many.

I've not yet had the heart to make any detailed comparisons with Germany of the deaths of care home residents and their carers but our figures are I think outstanding enough to raise concern.

Our unpreparedness for the initial arrival of Covid-19 (for which there was plenty of forewarning) and the glaring failures of PPE and testing are issues which I am expecting Keir Starmer to address in calling the government to account.

I think that much is owed to the people who have died as a result and when the lockdown is eased ... as it surely must be at some time in the future I hope the government doesn't do its own thing because I really don't think they are terribly good at it - but watches and learns from the experience of others.

As regards PPE I don't think anyone knew we would need a completely different level of protection than has been used in the past.  These are not normal medical masks that have been used in the past... I managed to get some from Band Q.. Not a medical supplier.
Now as I understand according to the army who have been distributing it... It's not that we don't have enough. Some hospitals have too much... Some not enough. It's a failing in the NHS management that has resulted in poor distribution.
Whatever Starmers wishes he's hampered by a hard left Labour Party that has no future.  They don't want a Blair type centre party which is their only chance of electoral success

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2020, 11:39:22 AM »
One of the first things hes done is to ask steven lawrences mother to look into the deaths of BAME in the covid outbrake...what aridiculous thing to do. Hes looking for a racist angle....any investigation needs to be carried out by scientists.....of all races

I absolutely agree.

Offline Brietta

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2020, 12:03:08 PM »
I'm not so sure... Appointing Baroness Lawrence to lead an enquiry seems to me he's approaching it with a bias.
Almost as if he wants to find a social reason he can blame the govt for... Which to anyone who understands the situation is ridiculous

Sending government advisers to a supposedly independent advisory body is equally as incomprehensible to me.  But there we are.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-dominic-cummings-on-secret-scientific-advisory-group-for-covid-19?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTIwMDQyNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2020, 12:19:33 PM »
Hopefully hes got more sense than to use this situation as  apolitical point scoring exercise as you want to do

But the crisis is political.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2020, 12:20:53 PM »
I think when this is 'over' we are going to face huge differences in our lives as individuals and as a Nation.  I think Starmer will acquit himself well under those circumstances.

Letís hope so. We need a robust opposition, at this time more than ever.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2020, 12:22:49 PM »
As regards PPE I don't think anyone knew we would need a completely different level of protection than has been used in the past.  These are not normal medical masks that have been used in the past... I managed to get some from Band Q.. Not a medical supplier.
Now as I understand according to the army who have been distributing it... It's not that we don't have enough. Some hospitals have too much... Some not enough. It's a failing in the NHS management that has resulted in poor distribution.
Whatever Starmers wishes he's hampered by a hard left Labour Party that has no future.  They don't want a Blair type centre party which is their only chance of electoral success

Google Operation Cygnus. They should have known.

Offline Davel

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2020, 01:03:01 PM »
Google Operation Cygnus. They should have known.

It's the type of ppe that is required that is the problem... Ppe never before being required... Apart from Ebola type diseases
It's very easy to criticise with hindsight which is what you are doing. It's the stupid public... Not obeying social distancing rules that are and will be the problem... Not the govt

Offline Brietta

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2020, 01:53:11 PM »
As regards PPE I don't think anyone knew we would need a completely different level of protection than has been used in the past.  These are not normal medical masks that have been used in the past... I managed to get some from Band Q.. Not a medical supplier.
Now as I understand according to the army who have been distributing it... It's not that we don't have enough. Some hospitals have too much... Some not enough. It's a failing in the NHS management that has resulted in poor distribution.
Whatever Starmers wishes he's hampered by a hard left Labour Party that has no future.  They don't want a Blair type centre party which is their only chance of electoral success

I think there will be a new realism in the country about a lot of things some of which arises from the effects of the pandemic; and I imagine the scales will fall from the eyes of not a few informed Tory voters too over how bad the Government reaction has been in many instances.

The handing of PPE has been Pythonesque in its ineptitude https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8243479/RAF-plane-flying-desperately-PPE-FINALLY-leaves-Turkish-airport-UK-coronavirus-battle.html  with Downing Street allegedly manoeuvring to shift the blame for failures ~ where is Jeremy Corbyn when you need him? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8248685/Downing-Street-told-not-publicise-PPE-shipment-Turkey-case-didnt-turn-up.html

We don't have the measure of Starmer's performance at the dispatch box yet but when we do I think we will be pleasantly surprised as he holds the Government to task.
There has to be a total evaluation of the reaction of Government to what was done well and what was not in this life changing National Emergency for so many Britons.  Reading some of the introductory information posted about him by Faithlilly it is my opinion Starmer's CV makes him ideal to have a meaningful lead in that.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Sir Keir Starmer Appointed Leader Of The Labour Party
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2020, 10:41:01 PM »
I think there will be a new realism in the country about a lot of things some of which arises from the effects of the pandemic; and I imagine the scales will fall from the eyes of not a few informed Tory voters too over how bad the Government reaction has been in many instances.

The handing of PPE has been Pythonesque in its ineptitude https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8243479/RAF-plane-flying-desperately-PPE-FINALLY-leaves-Turkish-airport-UK-coronavirus-battle.html  with Downing Street allegedly manoeuvring to shift the blame for failures ~ where is Jeremy Corbyn when you need him? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8248685/Downing-Street-told-not-publicise-PPE-shipment-Turkey-case-didnt-turn-up.html

We don't have the measure of Starmer's performance at the dispatch box yet but when we do I think we will be pleasantly surprised as he holds the Government to task.
There has to be a total evaluation of the reaction of Government to what was done well and what was not in this life changing National Emergency for so many Britons.  Reading some of the introductory information posted about him by Faithlilly it is my opinion Starmer's CV makes him ideal to have a meaningful lead in that.

Oh I am expecting much more. I want him to tell us what he was advising as an MP. Is it written somewhere as the news broke he took the bull by the horn and told the government what they were doing wrong and how to do it properly, surely he had a duty of care for his 'voters'. No? OK.  not shocked at all.

Erm yeah with hindsight  what he would have done is... blahblah blah.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin