UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Rossb on January 20, 2022, 01:21:15 PM

Title: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on January 20, 2022, 01:21:15 PM
I do not understand where the idea comes from that Gerry is a mason and somehow is being protected at a higher level. Some other forums have mentioned this and various youtube comments. Having questioned some people no response of evidence has been provided. But people seem to think this is the reason they must be getting protected. Well i dont think so. I am more than happy to answer questions in relation as to why people think this of gerry.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on January 20, 2022, 01:55:34 PM
I do not understand where the idea comes from that Gerry is a mason and somehow is being protected at a higher level. Some other forums have mentioned this and various youtube comments. Having questioned some people no response of evidence has been provided. But people seem to think this is the reason they must be getting protected. Well i dont think so. I am more than happy to answer questions in relation as to why people think this of gerry.

Welcome, Rossb.

Why do some people think that Gerry McCann is a FreeMason?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on January 20, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
So Gerry has been accused of being a mason which ultimately and apparently helped the mccans out and gave them a lot of help or got off with it. Wether or not he is a mason would make no difference but to attach him to a lodge and that being the reason is dispicable imo. I was a former mason and i feel it is relevant to tackle if anyone has any such facts, opinions on the matter i would be happy to answer. That being said it would be the biggest cover up. Thanks for the welcome!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on January 20, 2022, 02:28:57 PM
So Gerry has been accused of being a mason which ultimately and apparently helped the mccans out and gave them a lot of help or got off with it. Wether or not he is a mason would make no difference but to attach him to a lodge and that being the reason is dispicable imo. I was a former mason and i feel it is relevant to tackle if anyone has any such facts, opinions on the matter i would be happy to answer. That being said it would be the biggest cover up. Thanks for the welcome!

I have no real knowledge of this accusation, if it is in fact an accusation.  But you might be short on answers if there is no proof.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on January 20, 2022, 02:33:01 PM
I do not understand where the idea comes from that Gerry is a mason and somehow is being protected at a higher level. Some other forums have mentioned this and various youtube comments. Having questioned some people no response of evidence has been provided. But people seem to think this is the reason they must be getting protected. Well i dont think so. I am more than happy to answer questions in relation as to why people think this of gerry.

It's of no importance... The McCanns are innocent and are not being protected by thee establishment
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 20, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
Now that's an accusation I've not heard since the late 2000s.  I wonder who's re-hashing that old myth now and why...?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: jassi on January 20, 2022, 02:44:44 PM
So Gerry has been accused of being a mason which ultimately and apparently helped the mccans out and gave them a lot of help or got off with it. Wether or not he is a mason would make no difference but to attach him to a lodge and that being the reason is dispicable imo. I was a former mason and i feel it is relevant to tackle if anyone has any such facts, opinions on the matter i would be happy to answer. That being said it would be the biggest cover up. Thanks for the welcome!

Strange thing for anyone to do. As far as I know, it's not an offence to be a member of a secretive organisation, such as the Masons.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 20, 2022, 05:19:30 PM
It’s undoubtedly true that some people believe that the McCanns are being protected by the High Ups as part of some vast conspiracy, but then some people believe the Queen is a lizard.  I guess some people are just a bit  *%87
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on January 20, 2022, 06:22:06 PM
Hi all, thanks for commenting. Yes, i just do not understand why people say this, but as a graduate a while back in psychology and also a former mason, wild conspiracies have emerged. I understand the claims to suggest this conspiracy may not be as popular as say CB is a patsy or others, but i thought it is important to try and see if anyone had any experience in anyone else suggesting those theories or similar. As i am a new member, i have read a lot about the mccann case but i also see their are so many threads, so i hope to contribute positively!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: misty on January 20, 2022, 07:07:18 PM
Hi all, thanks for commenting. Yes, i just do not understand why people say this, but as a graduate a while back in psychology and also a former mason, wild conspiracies have emerged. I understand the claims to suggest this conspiracy may not be as popular as say CB is a patsy or others, but i thought it is important to try and see if anyone had any experience in anyone else suggesting those theories or similar. As i am a new member, i have read a lot about the mccann case but i also see their are so many threads, so i hope to contribute positively!

Hi Ross & welcome.
As a newbie to internet chat fora on this case back in 2012, I can confirm that accusations that Gerry was a Freemason were rife on Yahoo comments (now defunct). Having just quickly googled & found this petition launched in the same year, the wording mirrors what was being written by certain posters at the time. (Brietta may remember it)
https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/42805

Rejected petition
"Remove Free Masons from places of power and public services
More details
The British government, police, military and justice system is over run by Free Masons, the following quote was taken from the Handbook of Masonry, page 183 "You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons...and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations". This is in conflict with government, police and the justice system.

We the signed demand Free Masons be removed from places of power."
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on January 21, 2022, 02:27:29 AM
Hi Ross & welcome.
As a newbie to internet chat fora on this case back in 2012, I can confirm that accusations that Gerry was a Freemason were rife on Yahoo comments (now defunct). Having just quickly googled & found this petition launched in the same year, the wording mirrors what was being written by certain posters at the time. (Brietta may remember it)
https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/42805

Rejected petition
"Remove Free Masons from places of power and public services
More details
The British government, police, military and justice system is over run by Free Masons, the following quote was taken from the Handbook of Masonry, page 183 "You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons...and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations". This is in conflict with government, police and the justice system.

We the signed demand Free Masons be removed from places of power."

The demands that Freemasons must deffend each other, even when they have done wrong, was the very reason why my Dad refused to join them, despite being invited by his boss several times.  His boss had quite a high position in the Masons
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on January 28, 2022, 10:39:49 AM
Sorry, i have been ill for a few weeks so not posted. What i thought was why people attribute if you attend a lodge therefore the theory must be masonic influence when in fact it can be just individual influence. I dont think the mccanns well gerry has even benefited from anything as their are still no answers to madeleines whereabouts. However thanks for posting in regards to this topic. I shall jump into another thread but this is still open if anyone feels any different.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on January 28, 2022, 11:15:33 AM
Sorry, i have been ill for a few weeks so not posted. What i thought was why people attribute if you attend a lodge therefore the theory must be masonic influence when in fact it can be just individual influence. I dont think the mccanns well gerry has even benefited from anything as their are still no answers to madeleines whereabouts. However thanks for posting in regards to this topic. I shall jump into another thread but this is still open if anyone feels any different.

Hope you have made a full recovery from your illness and good to see you back.

I look forward to your posts on whichever threads take your fancy but whether posting or just reading I hope you enjoy.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: The General on February 03, 2022, 07:22:03 AM
So has anyone been able to answer the question in the thread title?
It's only common courtesy, given that the thread was allowed to be posted by someone.
Tell you what, I'll have a shufty and see what I can find.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2022, 11:02:36 AM
I think Michael Linnett, who joined the Madeleine Fund as a director, was a Catenian. Perhaps Kate's uncle Brian was also.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/pdf/P35ATCsP3.pdf
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2022, 12:42:01 AM
The demands that Freemasons must deffend each other, even when they have done wrong, was the very reason why my Dad refused to join them, despite being invited by his boss several times.  His boss had quite a high position in the Masons

My grandad was a mason too and wanted my dad to join but, like your dad, he refused.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: The General on February 07, 2022, 07:15:17 AM
My grandad was a mason too and wanted my dad to join but, like your dad, he refused.
If Gerry wasn't a Mason I'd be surprised.
Would that have helped at all? No.
They're a bunch of overweight, deluded nobbers whose influence extends to 10% off at Toby Carvery.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 28, 2022, 11:13:32 PM
If Gerry wasn't a Mason I'd be surprised.
Would that have helped at all? No.
They're a bunch of overweight, deluded nobbers whose influence extends to 10% off at Toby Carvery.

.. and as a holy catholic, apparently Catholics were banned from joining by one of the many  Popes.
 Back in the day- when the pope was king of Catholics the Masons decreed that religion should not be brought to the table, the pope didn't like this...

Free masons  AKA Free men, were from King Solomon's day, he allowed many black and Jewish slaves who were mainly stone masons to be 'free men'. Solomon  what a guy- what a king!!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 09, 2022, 03:14:53 PM
The demands that Freemasons must deffend each other, even when they have done wrong, was the very reason why my Dad refused to join them, despite being invited by his boss several times.  -snip-

A popular misconception.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 10, 2022, 08:24:43 AM
If Gerry wasn't a Mason I'd be surprised.
Would that have helped at all? No.
They're a bunch of overweight, deluded nobbers whose influence extends to 10% off at Toby Carvery.

So what difference would it make then. Everyone in my lodge was spot on.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 10, 2022, 08:30:11 AM
.. and as a holy catholic, apparently Catholics were banned from joining by one of the many  Popes.
 Back in the day- when the pope was king of Catholics the Masons decreed that religion should not be brought to the table, the pope didn't like this...

Free masons  AKA Free men, were from King Solomon's day, he allowed many black and Jewish slaves who were mainly stone masons to be 'free men'. Solomon  what a guy- what a king!!

You are quote right, the church persecuted the masons accusing of going against them because it was classed as a secret lol. You do get asked if you attend church, that if it is ok to join when being questioned.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 10, 2022, 08:33:39 AM
I think Michael Linnett, who joined the Madeleine Fund as a director, was a Catenian. Perhaps Kate's uncle Brian was also.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/pdf/P35ATCsP3.pdf

If two people in a church help out one is a chief constable the other is a joiner. Would you blame the catholic church or would you blame the individuals?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 10, 2022, 09:07:01 AM
If two people in a church help out one is a chief constable the other is a joiner. Would you blame the catholic church or would you blame the individuals?

Why would I blame anyone if people help out? Whatever help out means.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 12, 2022, 04:58:02 PM
Why would I blame anyone if people help out? Whatever help out means.

Do you think the belief of masons helped mccann out and donr it u der the mason ptinciple?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2022, 05:59:30 PM
Do you think the belief of masons helped mccann out and donr it u der the mason ptinciple?

I've no idea. Surely no organisation would instruct it's members to help each other just because they belonged to the same group?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: misty on August 13, 2022, 02:47:39 AM
I've no idea. Surely no organisation would instruct it's members to help each other just because they belonged to the same group?

(I feel like I've travelled back in time 10 years to the dizzy heights of Yahoo message boards)

"You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons... and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations."

Ronayne. Handbook of Masonry, page 183

Complete handbook at this link.
https://archive.org/stream/HandbookFreemasonryEdmondRonayne1917/Handbook_Freemasonry-Edmond_Ronayne-1917_djvu.txt
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 06:22:09 AM
(I feel like I've travelled back in time 10 years to the dizzy heights of Yahoo message boards)

"You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons... and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations."

Ronayne. Handbook of Masonry, page 183

Complete handbook at this link.
https://archive.org/stream/HandbookFreemasonryEdmondRonayne1917/Handbook_Freemasonry-Edmond_Ronayne-1917_djvu.txt

Thanks Misty. So Masons are expected to break the law to protect each other? I wonder how police officers square that with their oaths?

"I (name) ...of (police force)... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law."
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 08:52:34 AM
(I feel like I've travelled back in time 10 years to the dizzy heights of Yahoo message boards)

"You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons... and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations."

Ronayne. Handbook of Masonry, page 183

Complete handbook at this link.
https://archive.org/stream/HandbookFreemasonryEdmondRonayne1917/Handbook_Freemasonry-Edmond_Ronayne-1917_djvu.txt

Lmao no they dont lol
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 11:14:39 AM
Lmao no they dont lol

Do you have evidence which contradicts that supplied by Misty?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 11:47:24 AM
Do you have evidence which contradicts that supplied by Misty?

It was wrote in 1904 or late 1800's - times were different and the paper is american not from the U.k  even if it was said it wpuld not mean life in general as if if no one knew who was a mason how could one from one the same lodge apply to cover up when if ypu were found to have commitred a crime you would be kicked out. Dont take things literally. Their are no secrets in freemasonry. Individuals get told to leave if behaviour outaide or inside is bad. Dont tell an ex mason on how it works.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 11:56:21 AM
It was wrote in 1904 or late 1800's - times were different and the paper is american not from the U.k  even if it was said it wpuld not mean life in general as if if no one knew who was a mason how could one from one the same lodge apply to cover up when if ypu were found to have commitred a crime you would be kicked out. Dont take things literally. Their are no secrets in freemasonry. Individuals get told to leave if behaviour outaide or inside is bad. Dont tell an ex mason on how it works.

No evidence then.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 11:58:14 AM
No evidence then.

So where is the evidence UGLE and gerrys local lodge helped cover up? Who are the participants. Im sorry but in order to understand you need yo be or have been a normal member lol
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: jassi on August 13, 2022, 12:01:29 PM
So where is the evidence UGLE and gerrys local lodge helped cover up? Who are the participants. Im sorry but in order to understand you need yo be or have been a normal member lol

Is there such a thing ? They all seem highly abnormal to me with their little aprons and secret handshakes.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 13, 2022, 12:02:51 PM
No evidence then.
What evidence would you expect to find that states masons must not break the laws of the land to protect each other?  Is such a clause written in to other similar organisations?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 12:11:12 PM
Is there such a thing ? They all seem highly abnormal to me with their little aprons and secret handshakes.

There must be rewards involved surely to be able to take it all seriously?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 12:15:13 PM
Is there such a thing ? They all seem highly abnormal to me with their little aprons and secret handshakes.

If you knew anything about it, its a grip not a handshake
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: jassi on August 13, 2022, 12:16:28 PM
There must be rewards involved surely to be able to take it all seriously?

Opportunities for gaining material wealth at a guess.
Are there any poverty-stricken masons ?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 13, 2022, 12:32:38 PM
There must be rewards involved surely to be able to take it all seriously?
Of course there are rewards, same with any organisation, otherwise why would they exist at all?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 12:41:59 PM
Opportunities for gaining material wealth at a guess.
Are there any poverty-stricken masons ?

People come from all backgrounds, retired, joiners, plumbers, sales, students, police, bank managers. Its no secret to be kept just old material and people to meet up that you usually would not meet depending your job
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 12:49:11 PM
People come from all backgrounds, retired, joiners, plumbers, sales, students, police, bank managers. Its no secret to be kept just old material and people to meet up that you usually would not meet depending your job

But why?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 01:23:12 PM
But why?

Helps bring people and communities together, a lot of vharity work done. Helps make ypu a better person. Its no biggy  just a club with no nasty intentions. Would love if someone can just give basics on meetings, when how often  what happens etc. No one can bcos conspiritaorial websites and rumours change peoples perceptions.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 13, 2022, 01:57:55 PM
But why?
mainly to protect the McCanns I believe.  And what a good job they are doing too!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 01:59:24 PM
Opportunities for gaining material wealth at a guess.
Are there any poverty-stricken masons ?

Also what can someone gain financially from it when you pay to go there, poverty stricken masons whats that meant to mean?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 13, 2022, 02:01:27 PM
Opportunities for gaining material wealth at a guess.
Are there any poverty-stricken masons ?
No, if someone in the lodge falls on hard times the masons go on the rob, hold up a couple of banks, problem sorted.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 04:39:04 PM
Helps bring people and communities together, a lot of vharity work done. Helps make ypu a better person. Its no biggy  just a club with no nasty intentions. Would love if someone can just give basics on meetings, when how often  what happens etc. No one can bcos conspiritaorial websites and rumours change peoples perceptions.

I see no need for secrecy; it's that which has aroused suspicion imo.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 13, 2022, 04:59:31 PM
I see no need for secrecy; it's that which has aroused suspicion imo.

Their is no secrecy of anything, its mysticism to induldge joining
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 06:15:24 PM
Their is no secrecy of anything, its mysticism to induldge joining

Mysticism? Are there religious beliefs involved?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 14, 2022, 01:39:22 AM
(I feel like I've travelled back in time 10 years to the dizzy heights of Yahoo message boards)

"You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons... and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him...It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations."

Ronayne. Handbook of Masonry, page 183

Complete handbook at this link.
https://archive.org/stream/HandbookFreemasonryEdmondRonayne1917/Handbook_Freemasonry-Edmond_Ronayne-1917_djvu.txt

This was precisely why my Father refused to join the Masons.   He would have no part in covering criminals up.

It was his boss, a senior Mason who kept asking him to join.   it would have probably been a good career move to join.   Masons seemed to get the better promotions, but Dad stuck to his principles. 

I seem to remember Faiths Father also sticking to his principles.   8@??)(
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 14, 2022, 10:03:17 AM
Mysticism? Are there religious beliefs involved?

None, its not a religion either. It just role plays things. Although i will say to enter you have to believe in any type of higher power and have no spent convictions. You will find some religious people in their but its more role play than anything. They are normal working people. Secrecy are no secrets just a good laugh
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 14, 2022, 10:07:29 AM
This was precisely why my Father refused to join the Masons.   He would have no part in covering criminals up.

It was his boss, a senior Mason who kept asking him to join.   it would have probably been a good career move to join.   Masons seemed to get the better promotions, but Dad stuck to his principles. 

I seem to remember Faiths Father also sticking to his principles.   8@??)(

Seniority or degree in the lodge means absolutley nothing on the outside world. If i joined you really think a top ceo of a company would randomly give me a job or a plumbing company in a director position? Realistically you dont give people jobs if anything if companies are compatible then maybe it does happen. But its no different than top level workers who are members of a golf club, government, private schools, oxford, exhibition meetings etc. Ypu get my drift
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 11:56:32 AM
Seniority or degree in the lodge means absolutley nothing on the outside world. If i joined you really think a top ceo of a company would randomly give me a job or a plumbing company in a director position? Realistically you dont give people jobs if anything if companies are compatible then maybe it does happen. But its no different than top level workers who are members of a golf club, government, private schools, oxford, exhibition meetings etc. Ypu get my drift

I think it would be more subtle than that. A councillor supporting a fellow Mason's contract bid, or a policeman letting a speeding Mason off, for example. Nothing huge or really illegal, but still undermining standards  of fairness and impartiality.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 12:50:21 PM
This was precisely why my Father refused to join the Masons.   He would have no part in covering criminals up.

It was his boss, a senior Mason who kept asking him to join.   it would have probably been a good career move to join.   Masons seemed to get the better promotions, but Dad stuck to his principles. 

I seem to remember Faiths Father also sticking to his principles.   8@??)(

He did indeed Sadie.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 14, 2022, 02:36:57 PM
Is there such a thing ? They all seem highly abnormal to me with their little aprons and secret handshakes.
How can you even quote most of all 6 million members are highly abnormal? Is it abnormal to raise money for diseases and charity? Or is it abnormal to blame a cpuple with no concrete evidence about a missing child.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 14, 2022, 02:41:38 PM
I think it would be more subtle than that. A councillor supporting a fellow Mason's contract bid, or a policeman letting a speeding Mason off, for example. Nothing huge or really illegal, but still undermining standards  of fairness and impartiality.

Just as luck would have it being in the same lodge would give a high degree of uncertainty amd so what if they did? What difference is it in a pub, government, golf club etc?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 02:55:49 PM
I think it would be more subtle than that. A councillor supporting a fellow Mason's contract bid, or a policeman letting a speeding Mason off, for example. Nothing huge or really illegal, but still undermining standards  of fairness and impartiality.
So when a policeman stops a speeding car is there a point at which the driver and the policeman shake hands to ascertain whether each other is a mason?  Or does the driver get out of his car and roll up a trouser leg?  I’m not sure how it works, can you explain please?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 14, 2022, 03:02:27 PM
So when a policeman stops a speeding car is there a point at which the driver and the policeman shake hands to ascertain whether each other is a mason?  Or does the driver get out of his car and roll up a trouser leg?  I’m not sure how it works, can you explain please?

Haha great point, even hers about abnormailty. Raises millions to help people thats abnormal but blame a random couple for death a need to be?!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 03:44:44 PM
That the parents were given preferential treatment is beyond argument. You simply have to look at the money being expended on OG to other cold case reviews. That this happened because Madeleine’s father was a mason is highly improbable.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 04:06:12 PM
That the parents were given preferential treatment is beyond argument. You simply have to look at the money being expended on OG to other cold case reviews. That this happened because Madeleine’s father was a mason is highly improbable.
Newsflash!!  Operation Grange isn’t about the parents, it’s about Madeleine McCann, so if you like it’s her getting the preferential treatment, what a disgrace, far better that her disappearance was forgotten about 14 years ago (apart from by the McCann bashers and conspiracy loons of course!)
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 05:20:53 PM
Newsflash!!  Operation Grange isn’t about the parents, it’s about Madeleine McCann, so if you like it’s her getting the preferential treatment, what a disgrace, far better that her disappearance was forgotten about 14 years ago (apart from by the McCann bashers and conspiracy loons of course!)

I believe in equal treatment for everyone. Every child is precious.

Now if you can point me to just one case where so much time, money and resources has been expended then I’ll concede my point. If not then my point stands.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 05:38:05 PM
I believe in equal treatment for everyone. Every child is precious.

Now if you can point me to just one case where so much time, money and resources has been expended then I’ll concede my point. If not then my point stands.
My point is that iOperation Grange is about Madeleine not her parents so how does your point stand exactly?  Is your point that all investigations into missing children depend only on the social standing of the parents? 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 05:40:38 PM
My point is that iOperation Grange is about Madeleine not her parents so how does your point stand exactly?  Is your point that all investigations into missing children depend only on the social standing of the parents?

Are there any other cold cases that have had this much expenditure lavished on them? Simple enough question.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 05:47:40 PM
Are there any other cold cases that have had this much expenditure lavished on them? Simple enough question.
I have no idea.  I asked a simple enough question which you ignored.  Who are you angry with btw?  The McCanns, Madeleine, the police or the government?  Or is it the masons?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: misty on August 14, 2022, 05:52:27 PM
Are there any other cold cases that have had this much expenditure lavished on them? Simple enough question.

If Portugal had public CCTV, a criminal DNA database and a Sex Offender's Register in 2007 then I very much doubt UK would ever needed to launch Operation Grange with its associated costs.
How much did the Yorkshire Ripper cost the UK? It's probably not worth pointing out to you that the Lisbon Ripper was never caught.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 05:55:57 PM
If Portugal had public CCTV, a criminal DNA database and a Sex Offender's Register in 2007 then I very much doubt UK would ever needed to launch Operation Grange with its associated costs.
How much did the Yorkshire Ripper cost the UK? It's probably not worth pointing out to you that the Lisbon Ripper was never caught.

Thank you for the information but I’m not sure that any of it is relevant to my initial question.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: misty on August 14, 2022, 06:05:18 PM
Thank you for the information but I’m not sure that any of it is relevant to my initial question.

OG is unlike any other cold case investigation undertaken by UK. The judicial restrictions mean that there are no precedents for cost comparison.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 06:31:51 PM
I believe in equal treatment for everyone. Every child is precious.

Now if you can point me to just one case where so much time, money and resources has been expended then I’ll concede my point. If not then my point stands.
The phone hacking case cost UK taxpayers £95m and no one even died or disappeared as a result of the crimes committed - money well spent iyo?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 06:51:40 PM
This case was the most expensive in Australian history and cost over $11 million and many many years to solve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_serial_killings#Investigation
Money wasted iyo?  I mean they got a conviction in the end but just think if they’d given up after only spending a million or so how many other unsolved murders that money could have been spent on!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 07:03:01 PM
The phone hacking case cost UK taxpayers £95m and no one even died or disappeared as a result of the crimes committed - money well spent iyo?

I think you know that’s not comparable.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 07:20:28 PM
This case was the most expensive in Australian history and cost over $11 million and many many years to solve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_serial_killings#Investigation
Money wasted iyo?  I mean they got a conviction in the end but just think if they’d given up after only spending a million or so how many other unsolved murders that money could have been spent on!

Is $11 million dollars more than has been spent on OG?

Imagine child A was having millions of pounds spent on a her disappearance while Madeleine was being given limited funds. Would that be fair? Of course not yet this is the reality of several families.

Doesn’t every child deserve the same extensive investigation as Madeleine?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on August 14, 2022, 07:46:52 PM
Is $11 million dollars more than has been spent on OG?

Imagine child A was having millions of pounds spent on a her disappearance while Madeleine was being given limited funds. Would that be fair? Of course not yet this is the reality of several families.

Doesn’t every child deserve the same extensive investigation as Madeleine?

More sceptic junk...according to sceptics there are thousands..no tens of thousands who haven't been looked for...shouldn't be difficult for you to come up with a dozen names
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 08:46:42 PM
OG is unlike any other cold case investigation undertaken by UK. The judicial restrictions mean that there are no precedents for cost comparison.

I would put money on it for certain sure that the Duarte Levy's of the bottom feeders of the internet have ever found the necessity of pondering whether or not the father of a missing child is a freemason.

Usually the focus is on the missing child.  In Madeleine's case let's not forget there was a time when the great discussion was not about her disappearance but whether she had actually ever existed.

Just as there being absolutely no precedents for cost comparison has there ever been a case where a clone has been used to dehumanise a missing child and to steal her identity?
I think that must be pretty much unprecedented too.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 09:02:40 PM
The phone hacking case cost UK taxpayers £95m and no one even died or disappeared as a result of the crimes committed - money well spent iyo?

Raising the question of money and phones.

In real terms how much personnel time was expended in ignoring all the calls which might have thrown up relevant lines of inquiry (as was definitely the case when Scotland Yard started investigating) and concentrating only on a few individuals to no investigative avail.

Was this the root of the Freemasonry suspicions and speculations.

I didn't know Freemasonry was illegal?  Is it?  What makes it so hideously awful that membership has been equated as being a horrid slur?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 09:59:09 PM
Raising the question of money and phones.

In real terms how much personnel time was expended in ignoring all the calls which might have thrown up relevant lines of inquiry (as was definitely the case when Scotland Yard started investigating) and concentrating only on a few individuals to no investigative avail.

Was this the root of the Freemasonry suspicions and speculations.

I didn't know Freemasonry was illegal?  Is it?  What makes it so hideously awful that membership has been equated as being a horrid slur?

Historically the Catholic Church has been an enemy of Freemasonry. Weren't Catholics forbidden to join?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 14, 2022, 10:44:12 PM
He did indeed Sadie.

Good for him.   Sadly, not many  around like him and my Dad these days.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 11:31:26 PM
I think you know that’s not comparable.
Explain why it is not comparable. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 14, 2022, 11:33:59 PM
Is $11 million dollars more than has been spent on OG?

Imagine child A was having millions of pounds spent on a her disappearance while Madeleine was being given limited funds. Would that be fair? Of course not yet this is the reality of several families.

Doesn’t every child deserve the same extensive investigation as Madeleine?
OK so which families are we talking about here?  I agree every child who disappears in mysterious circumstances deserves to have that disappearance fully and extensively investigated.  So who is your beef with exactly?  The McCanns?  Madeleine?  The Police?  The government?  The Masons?  Who?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 11:48:09 PM
OK so which families are we talking about here?  I agree every child who disappears in mysterious circumstances deserves to have that disappearance fully and extensively investigated.  So who is your beef with exactly?  The McCanns?  Madeleine?  The Police?  The government?  The Masons?  Who?

And do you think that every child that has disappeared in mysterious circumstances has been as fully investigated as Madeleine’s disappearance?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 12:01:24 AM
And do you think that every child that has disappeared in mysterious circumstances has been as fully investigated as Madeleine’s disappearance?
So you refuse to answer my questions, fine.  Conversation over I’d say.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 12:11:26 AM
So you refuse to answer my questions, fine.  Conversation over I’d say.

No problem. It is rather an awkward question. You have to say no…as it’s so obviously true and it proves my point ie that Madeleine’s parents, as Madeleine’s next of kin, have had preferential treatment.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 07:11:01 AM
No problem. It is rather an awkward question. You have to say no…as it’s so obviously true and it proves my point ie that Madeleine’s parents, as Madeleine’s next of kin, have had preferential treatment.
Good for them then, they must be incredibly special and important.  Probably part of some secret cabal that includes past and present heads of state, probably something to do with the Rothschilds, almost certainly the Jews are involved somewhere if the masons aren’t behind this (which they probably are as well).
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 09:07:45 AM
Good for them then, they must be incredibly special and important.  Probably part of some secret cabal that includes past and present heads of state, probably something to do with the Rothschilds, almost certainly the Jews are involved somewhere if the masons aren’t behind this (which they probably are as well).

I am suprised david icke and co have not commented.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 15, 2022, 10:57:02 AM
I am suprised david icke and co have not commented.

You mean they haven't?  Then who in their right minds would pay the slightest attention!

Which leads me back to the questions raised by you in the opening post and charting the discussion to recent posts which betray the whole purpose of the whys and wherefores motivating the slurs.

We are informed the Church of Rome and Freemasonry are inimical one t'other.  Gerry McCann is a Roman Catholic.

Do you need me to take you any further down that track to explain exactly why the sceptic hate sites ran with the "Gerry is a freemason" thingy ~ or are you getting a picture of the way twisted minds operate.

You know something along the lines of the huge "scandal" manufactured in criticism of a loving Catholic couple using scientific medical advancements to procreate.
How thick do these sceptics think the Church is in combining moral leadership with modern living.  I believe there are certain branches of religion who would allow a child to die for want of a blood transfusion; Catholicism moves with the times a bit of O tempora o mores!
The Church produced document Dignitas Personae states "Medical efforts that assist procreation, are not to be rejected on the grounds that they are artificial. As such, they bear witness to the possibilities of the art of medicine. But they must be given a moral evaluation in reference to the dignity of the human person, who is called to realize his vocation from God to the gift of love and the gift of life.”

The sceptics display their ignorance with each and every slur they dream up but I think their piece de resistance has to be the vigour with which they raise objection to each and every initiative taken on Madeleine's behalf.

The planks of which are "the fraudulent fund" and ending with the "preferential treatment" and yes "the implied waste of money" invested taking meaningful action on her behalf.

The smokescreen is the slurring industry built around and supposedly directed at her parents.

My opinion?

The object of the hatred is Madeleine McCann.  Nothing at all to do with 'cafflicks' v Freemasons v IVF.  But all to do with a little girl whose fate they prefer remains a mystery rather than being solved.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
You mean they haven't?  Then who in their right minds would pay the slightest attention!

Which leads me back to the questions raised by you in the opening post and charting the discussion to recent posts which betray the whole purpose of the whys and wherefores motivating the slurs.

We are informed the Church of Rome and Freemasonry are inimical one t'other.  Gerry McCann is a Roman Catholic.

Do you need me to take you any further down that track to explain exactly why the sceptic hate sites ran with the "Gerry is a freemason" thingy ~ or are you getting a picture of the way twisted minds operate.

You know something along the lines of the huge "scandal" manufactured in criticism of a loving Catholic couple using scientific medical advancements to procreate.
How thick do these sceptics think the Church is in combining moral leadership with modern living.  I believe there are certain branches of religion who would allow a child to die for want of a blood transfusion; Catholicism moves with the times a bit of O tempora o mores!
The Church produced document Dignitas Personae states "Medical efforts that assist procreation, are not to be rejected on the grounds that they are artificial. As such, they bear witness to the possibilities of the art of medicine. But they must be given a moral evaluation in reference to the dignity of the human person, who is called to realize his vocation from God to the gift of love and the gift of life.”

The sceptics display their ignorance with each and every slur they dream up but I think their piece de resistance has to be the vigour with which they raise objection to each and every initiative taken on Madeleine's behalf.

The planks of which are "the fraudulent fund" and ending with the "preferential treatment" and yes "the implied waste of money" invested taking meaningful action on her behalf.

The smokescreen is the slurring industry built around and supposedly directed at her parents.

My opinion?

The object of the hatred is Madeleine McCann.  Nothing at all to do with 'cafflicks' v Freemasons v IVF.  But all to do with a little girl whose fate they prefer remains a mystery rather than being solved.

Because freemasonry is a conspiracy for people to accuse to run the world which icke does. I was a mason so i know what 'really' happens
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 12:00:40 PM
Good for them then, they must be incredibly special and important.  Probably part of some secret cabal that includes past and present heads of state, probably something to do with the Rothschilds, almost certainly the Jews are involved somewhere if the masons aren’t behind this (which they probably are as well).

I didn’t have you down as an ant-Semite but I suppose wait long enough and everyone reveals their true selves.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Because freemasonry is a conspiracy for people to accuse to run the world which icke does. I was a mason so i know what 'really' happens

My grandfather was a mason as is a friend so I don’t think you’re unique in knowing what ‘really’ happens.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 12:13:44 PM
I didn’t have you down as an ant-Semite but I suppose wait long enough and everyone reveals their true selves.

There has never been any suggestion that VS is an Anti Semite.  Other than from you.





Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 12:38:35 PM
I didn’t have you down as an ant-Semite but I suppose wait long enough and everyone reveals their true selves.

VS is stating its a jewish conspiracy like many others
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 12:39:40 PM
My grandfather was a mason as is a friend so I don’t think you’re unique in knowing what ‘really’ happens.

It is not unique to know what happens if you attend a lodge guess what once a month 8 times per year. Because i did for years j know
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 01:00:30 PM
There has never been any suggestion that VS is an Anti Semite.  Other than from you.

No real need that to bandy about dangerous Jewish conspiracies to point score then, even in jest. Posts like VS’s have real world consequences.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 01:04:42 PM
It is not unique to know what happens if you attend a lodge guess what once a month 8 times per year. Because i did for years j know

Not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest? You were a mason for years…well done. You know what happens within a lodge…me too.

As it would appear that Freemasonry played no part in the case we are discussing I’m not sure why you think that any of the above is relevant.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 01:31:23 PM
Not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest? You were a mason for years…well done. You know what happens within a lodge…me too.

As it would appear that Freemasonry played no part in the case we are discussing I’m not sure why you think that any of the above is relevant.

Yes, i feel that ppl who came up with the idea gm was a mason and had help purely from masons was why why he got away with what he or they supposedly done. So i gave my insigjts
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 15, 2022, 03:17:42 PM
Yes, i feel that ppl who came up with the idea gm was a mason and had help purely from masons was why why he got away with what he or they supposedly done. So i gave my insigjts

When one looks at the nature of the individuals and the hate sites which promulgate the suggestion as a slur directly aimed at Gerry McCann as the target, I think the reasons could never be fathomed.

Incidentally I've never seen Amaral making the claim.

The MI5 alleged "cover-up" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3393785/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-mi5-cover-up/

The alleged cremation https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4461526/Detective-claims-Madeleine-McCann-cremated-coffin.html

Amaral's a wee hive of invention and intervention when it comes to conspiracy theories such as 'Brueckner being the perfect patsy but for the fact he isn't dead'.

Yet not a word about Freemasonry.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 03:37:30 PM
I didn’t have you down as an ant-Semite but I suppose wait long enough and everyone reveals their true selves.
Please don’t be an idiot, you know full well I am the opposite of an anti semite and that my post was deeply ironic, and a reference to your bonkers theory that the McCanns received preferential treatment and also your utter adoration of the anti semite in chief that is Jeremy Corbyn.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 03:39:37 PM
There has never been any suggestion that VS is an Anti Semite.  Other than from you.
Quite, I would say if there was anyone on this forum supportive of anti semitism it is Faithlilly and her uncritical support of Jeremy Corbyn, a well know anti semite himself.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
Not sure what point you’re trying to make to be honest? You were a mason for years…well done. You know what happens within a lodge…me too.

As it would appear that Freemasonry played no part in the case we are discussing I’m not sure why you think that any of the above is relevant.
How could you know what happens within a lodge?  You are not a mason and I thought what went in in a lodge was supposed to be secret.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 05:43:45 PM
Please don’t be an idiot, you know full well I am the opposite of an anti semite and that my post was deeply ironic, and a reference to your bonkers theory that the McCanns received preferential treatment and also your utter adoration of the anti semite in chief that is Jeremy Corbyn.

Deeply ironic but deeply inappropriate.

I notice that while you call my claim, it’s not a theory, bonkers you have yet to post one case of a missing child who has had even near equal amounts of money spent in finding out what happened to them. That’s because there isn’t any, not one.

As to your snide aside….yet again Corbyn was right on so many issues…the need to nationalise the energy sector being but one. Not to worry I’m sure your righteous indignation will keep you warm this winter.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 05:51:28 PM
Deeply ironic but deeply inappropriate.

I notice that while you call my claim, it’s not a theory, bonkers you have yet to post one case of a missing child who has had even near equal amounts of money spent in finding out what happened to them. That’s because there isn’t any, not one.

As to your snide aside….yet again Corbyn was right on so many issues…the need to nationalise the energy sector being but one. Not to worry I’m sure your righteous indignation will keep you warm this winter.
LOL, the only righteous indignation I see on this thread right now is coming from you - calling me an anti-semite, not to mention your righteous indignation about the McCanns so called “preferential treatment “ and yet you can’t venture one single reason why they would be singled out for such special consideration.  I gave you a few (not serious ones) but still nothing from you to justify your beliefs. 

Why do you think the McCanns received preferential treatment and exactly how much money do you feel should be spent per missing child as a rule?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 05:53:08 PM
Quite, I would say if there was anyone on this forum supportive of anti semitism it is Faithlilly and her uncritical support of Jeremy Corbyn, a well know anti semite himself.

Have you read the Forde report?

Or for something shorter try this from the politically conservative Spectator.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-jeremy-corbyn-really-anti-semitic-

And…oh yes…do stop talking nonsense.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 06:03:11 PM
LOL, the only righteous indignation I see on this thread right now is coming from you - calling me an anti-semite, not to mention your righteous indignation about the McCanns so called “preferential treatment “ and yet you can’t venture one single reason why they would be singled out for such special consideration.  I gave you a few (not serious ones) but still nothing from you to justify your beliefs. 

Why do you think the McCanns received preferential treatment and exactly how much money do you feel should be spent per missing child as a rule?

One missing child that has had as much money spent on them as Madeleine, that’s all. Just one.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 06:26:14 PM
One missing child that has had as much money spent on them as Madeleine, that’s all. Just one.
I can’t think of any, so now you tell me why you think the only reason why Madeleine has had all this money spent on her is down to her parents and her parents alone.  Can you venture any plausible explanation?  What makes them above all other parents of missing children so very special? 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 07:08:54 PM
I can’t think of any, so now you tell me why you think the only reason why Madeleine has had all this money spent on her is down to her parents and her parents alone.  Can you venture any plausible explanation?  What makes them above all other parents of missing children so very special?

I don’t need to venture an explanation….in fact to do so would only be speculation. The point I made at the beginning of this dialogue is that Madeleine’s parents were given more support, especially financially, to find their daughter than any other parents in a similar situation. You appear now to agree with me.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 15, 2022, 07:12:08 PM
I can’t think of any, so now you tell me why you think the only reason why Madeleine has had all this money spent on her is down to her parents and her parents alone.  Can you venture any plausible explanation?  What makes them above all other parents of missing children so very special?

The reason is that this is not just about Madeleine, but about a other missing children and a massive global trafficking network that has to be stopped.

When searching the internet for documents and facts in my search for the abductors of Madeleine, I accidentally dug out two documents about the organisations that do this global trafficking/   They are absolutely cosher and will have given SY a massive starting point.


Also after long hours of work over many years they will have a lot of info from me to check out some unbelievably rich and important people.... ubtouchables?   !t is a very delicate situation IMO.


Personally I think that there has to be a major happening before any arrests are made.   I would like to be alive when it happens, but I am doubtful.


The above is all in my opinion only but there are hundreds of pointers that none of you have seen.   I think it will happen, but when?




I am not expecting any replies; there never are when I make a profound posting.

Maybe some abusive replies?   Dunno.   Probably just the freeze out, ignore treatment?   We shall see.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 07:22:37 PM
I don’t need to venture an explanation….in fact to do so would only be speculation. The point I made at the beginning of this dialogue is that Madeleine’s parents were given more support, especially financially, to find their daughter than any other parents in a similar situation. You appear now to agree with me.
You said the McCanns were given preferential treatment.  I replied that Operation Grange is not about the parents but about the missing child.  The money has not been spent on the parents but on a massive effort to solve a missing person’s enquiry.  What makes you think the expenditure has anything to do with the parents?  The money the Germans are spending on their investigations into CB - is that part of thr McCanns preferential treatment too iyo?  And of course you can’t venture any plausible or logical explanation for why the McCanns would be singled out for all this so called preferential treatment and there is one good reason why you can’t  - there isn’t one is there?  You just can’t admit it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2022, 07:55:27 PM
The reason is that this is not just about Madeleine, but about a other missing children and a massive global trafficking network that has to be stopped.

When searching the internet for documents and facts in my search for the abductors of Madeleine, I accidentally dug out two documents about the organisations that do this global trafficking/   They are absolutely cosher and will have given SY a massive starting point.


Also after long hours of work over many years they will have a lot of info from me to check out some unbelievably rich and important people.... ubtouchables?   !t is a very delicate situation IMO.


Personally I think that there has to be a major happening before any arrests are made.   I would like to be alive when it happens, but I am doubtful.


The above is all in my opinion only but there are hundreds of pointers that none of you have seen.   I think it will happen, but when?




I am not expecting any replies; there never are when I make a profound posting.

Maybe some abusive replies?   Dunno.   Probably just the freeze out, ignore treatment?   We shall see.

I think your thoughts about the case are unique Sadie so it's difficult for people to comment. For me, I see no evidence at all to support your views.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 08:00:37 PM
You said the McCanns were given preferential treatment.  I replied that Operation Grange is not about the parents but about the missing child.  The money has not been spent on the parents but on a massive effort to solve a missing person’s enquiry.  What makes you think the expenditure has anything to do with the parents?  The money the Germans are spending on their investigations into CB - is that part of thr McCanns preferential treatment too iyo?  And of course you can’t venture any plausible or logical explanation for why the McCanns would be singled out for all this so called preferential treatment and there is one good reason why you can’t  - there isn’t one is there?  You just can’t admit it.

You really are flogging a horse that’s not only dead but on it’s way to the glue factory and playing semantics won’t disguise that.

You can’t name one missing child who had has more money spent on their case than Madeleine…are you now saying that her parents efforts to gain funding had nothing to do with the money that was awarded? That just by dint of her being missing Madeleine was given unprecedented support?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 08:16:12 PM
You really are flogging a horse that’s not only dead but on it’s way to the glue factory and playing semantics won’t disguise that.

You can’t name one missing child who had has more money spent on their case than Madeleine…are you now saying that her parents efforts to gain funding had nothing to do with the money that was awarded? That just by dint of her being missing Madeleine was given unprecedented support?
You keep on proving me right.  Completely unable to proffer any explanation at all why the McCanns above all other parents of missing children should have been singled out for this so-called preferential treatment. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 08:36:23 PM
You keep on proving me right.  Completely unable to proffer any explanation at all why the McCanns above all other parents of missing children should have been singled out for this so-called preferential treatment.

Im not sure why you keep on asking this question when it’s really not relevant to the point I made and to which you have since given your tacit agreement. I think you are under the misconception that I somehow hold the parents responsible for this lack of balance in the resources afforded  to individual missing children, I don’t. Why the parents managed to obtain such funding can only guessed at and takes us no further forward.

No child should be valued any higher than another. At least that’s something we agree on.

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Im not sure why you keep on asking this question when it’s really not relevant to the point I made and to which you have since given your tacit agreement. I think you are under the misconception that I somehow hold the parents responsible for this lack of balance in the resources afforded  to individual missing children, I don’t. Why the parents managed to obtain such funding can only guessed at and takes us no further forward.

No child should be valued any higher than another. At least that’s something we agree on.
It’s entirety relevant to this thread as it’s often been mooted by your side of the argument that Gerry received preferential treatment owing to a secret membership to an organisation such as the Freemasons.  Just trying to keep things on topic dear.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 09:02:36 PM
If the McCanns are responsible for securing the largest spend ever on an investigation to find their daughter then they should be applauded for all their efforts in doing so.  Well done them, they would not let it lie.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 09:04:33 PM
It’s entirety relevant to this thread as it’s the ft been mooted by your side of the argument that Gerry received preferential treatment owing to a secret membership to an organisation such as the Freemasons.  Just trying to keep things on topic dear.

I very much doubt that Gerry received any kind of protection from the Freemasons or indeed was one.

I’m afraid that I can’t be blamed for what others believe.

Now shall we both agree that that presumption can be put to bed?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 09:06:15 PM
If the McCanns are responsible for securing the largest spend ever on an investigation to find their daughter then they should be applauded for all their efforts in doing so.  Well done them, they would not let it lie.

Hasn't been much success though has there, even with 3 investigative forces on the case they've drawn a total blank. So Amaral was right not to look for Maddie in the first place really.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 09:08:47 PM
If the McCanns are responsible for securing the largest spend ever on an investigation to find their daughter then they should be applauded for all their efforts in doing so.  Well done them, they would not let it lie.

And do you believe that Ben Needham’s mother did less? Deserved less?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 09:29:24 PM
I very much doubt that Gerry received any kind of protection from the Freemasons or indeed was one.

I’m afraid that I can’t be blamed for what others believe.

Now shall we both agree that that presumption can be put to bed?
We can indeed, but it still means that the reason for the extraordinary preferential treatment allegedly meted out to the McCanns remains unexplained.  How utterly perplexing!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 09:30:05 PM
And do you believe that Ben Needham’s mother did less? Deserved less?
Did I say that or any anything approximating it?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on August 15, 2022, 09:47:48 PM
Did the missing children in Jersey deserve 20 million ..oh..there weren't any. Strange sceptics don't bring up that vsse
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 10:08:43 PM
We can indeed, but it still means that the reason for the extraordinary preferential treatment allegedly meted out to the McCanns remains unexplained.  How utterly perplexing!

You agree that more money has been spent on this case than the case of any other missing child. Why do you think that was?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 10:09:50 PM
Did I say that or any anything approximating it?

Then why were the McCanns given more resources? Both children are still missing.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 10:11:21 PM
Did the missing children in Jersey deserve 20 million ..oh..there weren't any. Strange sceptics don't bring up that vsse

Perhaps because it isn’t comparable?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 10:11:58 PM
You agree that more money has been spent on this case than the case of any other missing child. Why do you think that was?
Why do you think I should I do you the courtesy of answering your questions when you refuse to answer mine?  Answer my question and I will answer yours.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 10:13:37 PM
Perhaps because it isn’t comparable?
Explain why not.  Your beef appears to be the disparity in the amount of money spent on criminal investigations involving children, no?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 10:15:53 PM
Then why were the McCanns given more resources? Both children are still missing.
That’s the question I keep asking you and which you refuse to answer.  What makes the McCannx so special?  You claim preferential treatment so there must be a reason. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 10:21:23 PM
Why do you think I should I do you the courtesy of answering your questions when you refuse to answer mine?  Answer my question and I will answer yours.

Again I really don’t mind if you don’t wish to answer. Perhaps the fact that we both agree on the veracity of my claim is enough for the purposes of this particular discussion.

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 10:26:19 PM
Explain why not.  Your beef appears to be the disparity in the amount of money spent on criminal investigations involving children, no?

No…missing child…singular.

Besides HLG was a child abuse investigation not an investigation into missing children.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 10:41:49 PM
Again I really don’t mind if you don’t wish to answer. Perhaps the fact that we both agree on the veracity of my claim is enough for the purposes of this particular discussion.
I don’t agree that the McCanns received preferential treatment.   Operation Grange is not about them, it’s about their daughter and about investigating her disappearance.  When the investigation was re-opened £14 m wasn’t thrown at it all at once.  But once the investigation established that there were many leads to be followed up then more resources were needed.   Do you think having spent a million or two and establishing loads of new leads they should simply have left it at that because a million or two quid is enough per child?  How much is too much to spend on trying to solve a case in your view?  Should an investigation continue until all avenues have been exhausted or when a pre-determined amount per child has been exhausted?  What’s the betting you don’t answer these questions either?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 10:47:25 PM
No…missing child…singular.

Besides HLG was a child abuse investigation not an investigation into missing children.
Why should the nature of the crime against the child be relevant wrt to the amount spent trying to solve the case?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2022, 11:14:13 PM
More questions for you Faith:

do you think violent and or sexual crimes are investigated by the police soley for the benefit of the victims and their families?

And name one other case anywhere in the world at any time  where the perpetrators of a crime have also been singled out for preferential treatment by having their own crimes re-investigated at their own insistence?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 11:37:42 PM
I don’t agree that the McCanns received preferential treatment.   Operation Grange is not about them, it’s about their daughter and about investigating her disappearance.  When the investigation was re-opened £14 m wasn’t thrown at it all at once.  But once the investigation established that there were many leads to be followed up then more resources were needed.   Do you think having spent a million or two and establishing loads of new leads they should simply have left it at that because a million or two quid is enough per child?  How much is too much to spend on trying to solve a case in your view?  Should an investigation continue until all avenues have been exhausted or when a pre-determined amount per child has been exhausted?  What’s the betting you don’t answer these questions either?

Absolutely every child should be searched for until the last snippet of information is investigated and discarded but in the real world and with the budget constraints placed on law enforcement agencies this is not feasible and  hard decisions have to be made.

Where is the multi million pound budget set aside to look into the case of Sandy Davidson or Holly Bringan or indeed Daniel Entwistle who went missing only a few short years before Madeleine? Where is their cold case review to see if any new leads have surfaced? Are their parents pleas for some kind of justice for their child any less important than those of the McCanns and if not why have they no police force following leads that may have been missed?

When a child goes missing it is their parents who plead for help and in those pleadings the McCanns were listened to where others weren’t. That is simply a fact. So yes, while  Madeleine was the object of the investigation, the preferential treatment of the parent’s pleas in comparison to many other parents in a similar situation is undeniable.

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 11:41:28 PM
Why should the nature of the crime against the child be relevant wrt to the amount spent trying to solve the case?

The bigger the investigation the bigger the budget.

Simple really.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 11:46:40 PM
More questions for you Faith:

do you think violent and or sexual crimes are investigated by the police soley for the benefit of the victims and their families?

And name one other case anywhere in the world at any time  where the perpetrators of a crime have also been singled out for preferential treatment by having their own crimes re-investigated at their own insistence?

 Tell you what VS I’ll leave those rather silly questions unanswered then at least you’ll have a readymade excuse not to answer the next time I ask you an awkward question.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 16, 2022, 12:59:42 AM

TOPIC, PLEASE?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 07:35:56 AM
Absolutely every child should be searched for until the last snippet of information is investigated and discarded but in the real world and with the budget constraints placed on law enforcement agencies this is not feasible and  hard decisions have to be made.

Where is the multi million pound budget set aside to look into the case of Sandy Davidson or Holly Bringan or indeed Daniel Entwistle who went missing only a few short years before Madeleine? Where is their cold case review to see if any new leads have surfaced? Are their parents pleas for some kind of justice for their child any less important than those of the McCanns and if not why have they no police force following leads that may have been missed?

When a child goes missing it is their parents who plead for help and in those pleadings the McCanns were listened to where others weren’t. That is simply a fact. So yes, while  Madeleine was the object of the investigation, the preferential treatment of the parent’s pleas in comparison to many other parents in a similar situation is undeniable.
As I understand it all the cases you mentioned are still open and active so who knows how much money has been spent investigating them over the many years since their disappearances.  You have to remember also that Madeleine disappeared in a foreign country and so costs involved in investigating her disappearance would have been greatly enhanced.  Finally, it is quite obvious to me that it was the massive and relentless media interest in the McCann case that kept the disappearance so prominent in people’s minds and which became part of the zeitgeist and a cultural reference point that played its part  in the decision to review and reinvestigate the case, that coupled with a sense that Madeleine  had been robbed of a proper initial investigation by the Portuguese of course.  These were all exceptional circumstances and as I have said before, if the case was only reopened and millions spent because of the parents unflagging determination to push for it then they have only to be applauded.  Remember how “if it was my kid I’d break down every door in Portugal”?  Well this is the same thing just by different means and still it’s considered outrageous and unfair by people like you. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 07:39:46 AM
The bigger the investigation the bigger the budget.

Simple really.
No it’s not that simple.  Nearly £100m was spent looking for dead bodies that in all likelihood never existed - just think of all the genuinely missing children such as the ones you mentioned in your previous post that money could have been spent on.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 07:42:44 AM
Tell you what VS I’ll leave those rather silly questions unanswered then at least you’ll have a readymade excuse not to answer the next time I ask you an awkward question.
Those questions are pertinent to the discussion we are having but fine, until they are answered by you I will feel under no further obligation to answer any more silly questions from you.  Good day to you madam.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 07:44:45 AM
TOPIC, PLEASE?
Is Gerry a Freemason?   If not, why did the McCanns get singled out for preferential treatment?  Is it coz they is white, rich, and drop dead gawjus?  That will be it.  IT’S SO UNFAIR!!!!  8()(((@#
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2022, 09:03:50 AM
Is Gerry a Freemason?   If not, why did the McCanns get singled out for preferential treatment?  Is it coz they is white, rich, and drop dead gawjus?  That will be it.  IT’S SO UNFAIR!!!!  8()(((@#

Operation Grange was set up following a campaign by the McCanns for a joint, independent and comprehensive review of Madeleine’s case. Perhaps a review by Operation Grange was seen as preferable to a review with input from both countries.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 16, 2022, 09:14:19 AM
Operation Grange was set up following a campaign by the McCanns for a joint, independent and comprehensive review of Madeleine’s case. Perhaps a review by Operation Grange was seen as preferable to a review with input from both countries.

Portugal didn't have any input.  They either ignore it or binned it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 09:19:58 AM
Operation Grange was set up following a campaign by the McCanns for a joint, independent and comprehensive review of Madeleine’s case. Perhaps a review by Operation Grange was seen as preferable to a review with input from both countries.
I don’t understand what point you are trying to make.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2022, 09:43:08 AM
As I understand it all the cases you mentioned are still open and active so who knows how much money has been spent investigating them over the many years since their disappearances.  You have to remember also that Madeleine disappeared in a foreign country and so costs involved in investigating her disappearance would have been greatly enhanced.  Finally, it is quite obvious to me that it was the massive and relentless media interest in the McCann case that kept the disappearance so prominent in people’s minds and which became part of the zeitgeist and a cultural reference point that played its part  in the decision to review and reinvestigate the case, that coupled with a sense that Madeleine  had been robbed of a proper initial investigation by the Portuguese of course.  These were all exceptional circumstances and as I have said before, if the case was only reopened and millions spent because of the parents unflagging determination to push for it then they have only to be applauded.  Remember how “if it was my kid I’d break down every door in Portugal”?  Well this is the same thing just by different means and still it’s considered outrageous and unfair by people like you.

Madeleine McCann's case was officially abandoned by the Portuguese after 14 months.  Although in reality they had given up on her many months prior to that when they concentrated all their resources on investigating Madeleine's parents.

It also raises a yet another conundrum regarding Amaral.
My bad!   I've posted this on the wrong thread ~ nary a word about freemasons or Gerry being one.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2022, 10:00:27 AM
Operation Grange was set up following a campaign by the McCanns for a joint, independent and comprehensive review of Madeleine’s case. Perhaps a review by Operation Grange was seen as preferable to a review with input from both countries.

Yet again the McCanns must demonstrably have been flogging Gerry's alleged freemasonry links to get preferential treatment for him and Kate.

Wait a minute ~ can that be right!  Wonder why this masonic preferential treatment didn't stretch to automatic implementation of their desire to have Madeleine looked for.  They had to pay for their own private detectives during the intervening years when NO-ONE else was bothered.  Luckily they were able to use the "fraudulent fund" money to finance the ONLY investigative process being carried to find Madeleine McCann
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 16, 2022, 10:02:12 AM
When one looks at the nature of the individuals and the hate sites which promulgate the suggestion as a slur directly aimed at Gerry McCann as the target, I think the reasons could never be fathomed.

Incidentally I've never seen Amaral making the claim.

The MI5 alleged "cover-up" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3393785/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-mi5-cover-up/

The alleged cremation https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4461526/Detective-claims-Madeleine-McCann-cremated-coffin.html

Amaral's a wee hive of invention and intervention when it comes to conspiracy theories such as 'Brueckner being the perfect patsy but for the fact he isn't dead'.

Yet not a word about Freemasonry.

Amaral changed his mind a few times lol, but some theorist has accused gerry as a mason which in itswlf is libel also. They must of had so many libel claims against them cant keep track of it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2022, 10:22:32 AM
Amaral changed his mind a few times lol, but some theorist has accused gerry as a mason which in itswlf is libel also. They must of had so many libel claims against them cant keep track of it.

I've never given the freemasonry slurs levelled against Gerry as anything other than just another nasty and vicious rumour amongst the uncountable nasty and vicious lies permeating the internet.

I live very close to the town housing lodge #0 but of course I know nothing because it is a secret 😉 but I must by definition know many of these shady characters covering up all sorts of alleged criminality.

I never really thought about it from their perspective before.  But undoubtedly that organisation is being maligned by inference too.

Next time they have an open day (and that is no joke, this secretive lot distribute literature and do have regular open days) I'll mibbe pop in and ask who they think is being slurred - them or Gerry.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 16, 2022, 11:09:17 AM
I've never given the freemasonry slurs levelled against Gerry as anything other than just another nasty and vicious rumour amongst the uncountable nasty and vicious lies permeating the internet.

I live very close to the town housing lodge #0 but of course I know nothing because it is a secret 😉 but I must by definition know many of these shady characters covering up all sorts of alleged criminality.

I never really thought about it from their perspective before.  But undoubtedly that organisation is being maligned by inference too.

Next time they have an open day (and that is no joke, this secretive lot distribute literature and do have regular open days) I'll mibbe pop in and ask who they think is being slurred - them or Gerry.

Lol, just see ur local lodge. Be all good. 😀
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2022, 11:35:34 AM
As I understand it all the cases you mentioned are still open and active so who knows how much money has been spent investigating them over the many years since their disappearances.  You have to remember also that Madeleine disappeared in a foreign country and so costs involved in investigating her disappearance would have been greatly enhanced.  Finally, it is quite obvious to me that it was the massive and relentless media interest in the McCann case that kept the disappearance so prominent in people’s minds and which became part of the zeitgeist and a cultural reference point that played its part  in the decision to review and reinvestigate the case, that coupled with a sense that Madeleine  had been robbed of a proper initial investigation by the Portuguese of course.  These were all exceptional circumstances and as I have said before, if the case was only reopened and millions spent because of the parents unflagging determination to push for it then they have only to be applauded.  Remember how “if it was my kid I’d break down every door in Portugal”?  Well this is the same thing just by different means and still it’s considered outrageous and unfair by people like you.

Much of what you say may be absolutely correct but it doesn’t detract from my point, made soooo long ago, that this case was given preferential treatment when it came to the funding and resources given to it.

As to the effort=result equation, doesn’t Kerry Needham deserve the same support and funding for exactly the same reasons? The Greek investigation was not as thorough as would be hoped and Kerry has fought tooth and nail, and with only a fraction of the media support afforded to the McCanns, to find out what happened to her son. Does she not deserve a multi-million pound review? The disappearance happened in the same circumstances so why not?

If there is still leads to be followed then they should be but if a full review of the available evidence, such as happened in Madeleine’s case, is not afforded to every missing child that is simply wrong. The right to a fully funded investigation should never depend on how interested the public or media are, as suggested above.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2022, 11:37:31 AM
Lol, just see ur local lodge. Be all good. 😀

Yes do. They obviously allow anyone in.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 16, 2022, 12:00:19 PM
Yes do. They obviously allow anyone in.

No they dont
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 16, 2022, 12:27:48 PM

My dad refuse the entreaties of my stepmother to join The Masons.  This was a pity because my dad could have done with a helping hand, while she just wanted to go to The Ladies Nights at which the ladies got expensive presents.

However, my brother was once The Grand Master of the local coven in Neasden, although I never found out what went on or even where they hung out.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 16, 2022, 12:34:40 PM
My dad refuse the entreaties of my stepmother to join The Masons.  This was a pity because my dad could have done with a helping hand, while she just wanted to go to The Ladies Nights at which the ladies got expensive presents.

However, my brother was once The Grand Master of the local coven in Neasden, although I never found out what went on or even where they hung out.

Yes, so the mens do have a ladies night. I think in october. But it usually gets hosted at a different event. Their is actually a womens masonry as well. But ladies night was fantastic. Dress up and meet everyone.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 12:38:12 PM
Much of what you say may be absolutely correct but it doesn’t detract from my point, made soooo long ago, that this case was given preferential treatment when it came to the funding and resources given to it.

As to the effort=result equation, doesn’t Kerry Needham deserve the same support and funding for exactly the same reasons? The Greek investigation was not as thorough as would be hoped and Kerry has fought tooth and nail, and with only a fraction of the media support afforded to the McCanns, to find out what happened to her son. Does she not deserve a multi-million pound review? The disappearance happened in the same circumstances so why not?

If there is still leads to be followed then they should be but if a full review of the available evidence, such as happened in Madeleine’s case, is not afforded to every missing child that is simply wrong. The right to a fully funded investigation should never depend on how interested the public or media are, as suggested above.
The penny appears to have finally dropped.   It is the case not the parents that appear to have received what you term as "preferential treatment".   Yes, in an ideal world where every single person was treated equally every single case of a missing child would have equal amounts of time, money and resources afforded to them but you would have to be hopelessly naive to believe that is ever going to be the case.  Ben Needham's case had far more time, cash and resources thrown at it than many other cases of missing children both here and elsewhere in the world, so should we complain about that too?  IMO obsessing about the perceived unfairness of the Madeleine investigation is petty and pointless.  Instead, pick a case you feel very strongly about, get behind it, contact the parents, start a campaign to get behind a review of their missing child's case, it would be more productive than spending time and energy whingeing about this case.  The money has been spent, time to get over it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2022, 12:54:09 PM
I don’t understand what point you are trying to make.

The McCanns wanted a joint review of the investigation. That would have involved the UK having access to the Portuguese files and the Portuguese having access to the UK files.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 01:26:08 PM
The McCanns wanted a joint review of the investigation. That would have involved the UK having access to the Portuguese files and the Portuguese having access to the UK files.
Yes, and?  What has that got to do with the post of mine you quoted?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2022, 01:48:24 PM
The penny appears to have finally dropped.   It is the case not the parents that appear to have received what you term as "preferential treatment".   Yes, in an ideal world where every single person was treated equally every single case of a missing child would have equal amounts of time, money and resources afforded to them but you would have to be hopelessly naive to believe that is ever going to be the case.  Ben Needham's case had far more time, cash and resources thrown at it than many other cases of missing children both here and elsewhere in the world, so should we complain about that too?  IMO obsessing about the perceived unfairness of the Madeleine investigation is petty and pointless.  Instead, pick a case you feel very strongly about, get behind it, contact the parents, start a campaign to get behind a review of their missing child's case, it would be more productive than spending time and energy whingeing about this case.  The money has been spent, time to get over it.

I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth from some when there was the perception that Madeleine’s parents weren’t getting the help and support that they deserved. Some have short memories.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 02:10:28 PM
I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth from some when there was the perception that Madeleine’s parents weren’t getting the help and support that they deserved. Some have short memories.
Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing now, about all the other missing children cases that you believe have been hard done by?  There’s nothing wrong with advocating for more help for a particular case, but there is something a bit “off” bemoaning the fact that more help has actually been granted in this case.  Would you rather the McCann case had remained shelved since 2008?  I rather think that would have suited you better….
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 16, 2022, 02:16:05 PM
I thought it was something to do with a British Passport and the right to protection while abroad.  And the decidedly iffy approach of The PJ to missing children.

Madeleine was only in Portugal for five days before she vanished.  And before you knew it The Portuguese Media was leaking all sorts of rubbish, followed by The British Media.  This did set a precedent.

Although I have no idea who started The Free Mason lark, but I do remember it from a very long time ago.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2022, 02:25:35 PM
The penny appears to have finally dropped.   It is the case not the parents that appear to have received what you term as "preferential treatment".   Yes, in an ideal world where every single person was treated equally every single case of a missing child would have equal amounts of time, money and resources afforded to them but you would have to be hopelessly naive to believe that is ever going to be the case.  Ben Needham's case had far more time, cash and resources thrown at it than many other cases of missing children both here and elsewhere in the world, so should we complain about that too?  IMO obsessing about the perceived unfairness of the Madeleine investigation is petty and pointless.  Instead, pick a case you feel very strongly about, get behind it, contact the parents, start a campaign to get behind a review of their missing child's case, it would be more productive than spending time and energy whingeing about this case.  The money has been spent, time to get over it.

The point has been made about the appropriateness of working the case of a missing child as long as there is evidence which makes continuation viable.

Investigators were not looking for Madeleine McCann for much of the fourteen months nominally allotted to her case which is just so wrong on so many levels - particularly morally.

The McCanns sheer perseverance won a review of her case for her.

Evidence led to her case being opened.

Evidence allowed her case to remain open over the years of bitching by some about the cost.

Freemasonry has absolutely nothing at all to do with it - the evidence ignored throughout the years by the Portuguese did that - and it is the continuance of developing that evidence that has kept it going.

What is it that drives the propaganda push against paying for an active police investigation into the case of a missing child for as long as there is supporting evidence?

Those seemingly advocating the release of a prime suspect on the say-so of a corrupt cop - and those advocating cutting off the funding to finish off investigating a case still with very active evidence to be dealt with - on the say-so of internet trolls is definitely the most morally bankrupt notion I have ever heard of.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 16, 2022, 02:48:07 PM

Amaral was about to be made an Arguido himself in the case of Torture against the mother of another missing child.  A crime of Perjury of which he was convicted.  Although we didn't know this at the time.  But The PJ did.  After that it all descended into any old accusation will do including Free Masonry.

The whole thing was an appalling mess during which the state of The PJ became all too apparent and riddled with corruption.  I doubt that Portugal will ever fully recover.  But someone had to try to sort this out.  And Madeleine McCann was and still is the responsibility of Britain.

There hasn't been a similar case in my living memory.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2022, 02:51:26 PM
Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing now, about all the other missing children cases that you believe have been hard done by?  There’s nothing wrong with advocating for more help for a particular case, but there is something a bit “off” bemoaning the fact that more help has actually been granted IMO.  Would you rather the McCann case had remained shelved since 2008?  I rather think that would have suited you better….

I think there are those who could not make it any clearer that is precisely what would have suited them better.

I think normal practice for police investigations into missing children is that they are either solved or they fizzle out as the supporting evidence never appears or the evidence runs out without allowing a conclusion to be reached.

But they remain viable and are subject to review periodically with fresh eyes.

The disgusting aspect of the complainers obstructing all initiatives made in Madeleine McCann's case, is the determined resistance against solving what happened in the face of fresh evidence allowing her case to be opened and the continuation of the active case allowing even more evidence to accrue.

This is not a campaign against a cold case.

This is organised resistance against a live police investigation designed to solve what happened to a missing child.

As such - why the complaining?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 03:09:28 PM
I’m guessing that for the likes of Faithliilly and her ilk no amount of taxpayers’ money would have been too much had the investigation continued to have been targeted at the parents.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 16, 2022, 03:23:54 PM
I’m guessing that for the likes of Faithliilly and her ilk no amount of taxpayers’ money would have been too much had the investigation continued to have been targeted at the parents.

Not much doubt about that.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2022, 05:11:47 PM
I’m guessing that for the likes of Faithliilly and her ilk no amount of taxpayers’ money would have been too much had the investigation continued to have been targeted at the parents.

I think you’re under the misapprehension that I’m unhappy with the amount of money spent on OG rather than the imbalance in funding compared to other, similar cases. The point is that all missing children deserve as well funded an investigation as Madeleine not that she deserves less of one.

I hope that’s clear now.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 05:21:47 PM
I think you’re under the misapprehension that I’m unhappy with the amount of money spent on OG rather than the imbalance in funding compared to other, similar cases. The point is that all missing children deserve as well funded an investigation as Madeleine not that she deserves less of one.

I hope that’s clear now.
Jolly good, I am very glad to hear that you are happy with the amount of money spent on trying to bring Madeleine’s abductor to justice. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 16, 2022, 05:42:37 PM
Jolly good, I am very glad to hear that you are happy with the amount of money spent on trying to bring Madeleine’s abductor to justice.

Not going well is it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2022, 06:56:25 PM
Jolly good, I am very glad to hear that you are happy with the amount of money spent on trying to bring Madeleine’s abductor to justice.

Oh has he been found then?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 16, 2022, 07:36:04 PM
Oh has he been found then?

We will have to wait and see.

One thing is certain and that is that OG have somethng keeping them investigating  and it doesn't seem to be the same as The Germans and The Portuguese.

They  are looking for a dead Madeleine or conclusive proof.

OG are looking for a MISSING Madeleine.   A mighty dfference.


Psychic Matt James also thinks that Madeleine is still alive.  He says that the worlds top psychics all believe Madeleine to be alive.   Even though Matt talked about further runes, it is strange how his Runes on the subject were suddenly stopped on April 26th 2022.   Who is hiding them and why?

 
They confirm the man who I suspect and also the reason Madeleine was taken in my investigation.  It is all about bloodlines, Power and family self agrandisment IMO.   One of the runes showed Madeleine with a tiny crown above her head, but that has vanished along with other runes.


When items /facts / pointers on the internet vanish or become altered by the perps. one KNOWS that one has found an important fact.   That it had to be got rid of , or alternatively vanished.   

The computer wizards and whiz kids are so clever.   
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 07:36:35 PM
Oh has he been found then?
Quite possibly, we shall know one way or the other in the fullness of time.  Meanwhile  I know you would favour an outcome which meant that all that money had been channeled correctly, resulting in justice for Madeleine, the evil predator put behind bars and thus keeping other children safe from befalling a similar fate to hers.  Wouldn’t you?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 16, 2022, 07:49:36 PM
Quite possibly, we shall know one way or the other in the fullness of time.  Meanwhile  I know you would favour an outcome which meant that all that money had been channeled correctly, resulting in justice for Madeleine, the evil predator put behind bars and thus keeping other children safe from befalling a similar fate to hers.  Wouldn’t you?

IMO, OG will keep going as long as there is info to be investigared, meaning quietly investigating people.

This the the main reason why it is costing more .... loads of info and quite a few people.   The people mainly being the upper echelons of society, so more difficult to bring down.



Plus i remain convinced that they are looking at global trafficking.


Some major event needs to happen before they move , also IMO
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 16, 2022, 07:59:49 PM
Quite possibly, we shall know one way or the other in the fullness of time.  Meanwhile  I know you would favour an outcome which meant that all that money had been channeled correctly, resulting in justice for Madeleine, the evil predator put behind bars and thus keeping other children safe from befalling a similar fate to hers.  Wouldn’t you?

You have some doubt about Wolters & the concrete evidence?


Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 16, 2022, 08:00:08 PM
I think your thoughts about the case are unique Sadie so it's difficult for people to comment. For me, I see no evidence at all to support your views.

Fair enough.   I have never followed the Madding crowd, but always thought for myself and followed my own route thru life, taking care to consider others.

I think Elli and I are a bit the same, but she has a wonderful humour which I am envious of.   Bless her.


I am very much "Right Hand Path" as are most on our side.   I think "Left Hand Path" people lack a moral compass tbh.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 16, 2022, 08:04:17 PM
IMO, OG will keep going as long as there is info to be investigared, meaning quietly investigating people.

This the the main reason why it is costing more .... loads of info and quite a few people.   The people mainly being the upper echelons of society, so more difficult to bring down.



Plus i remain convinced that they are looking at global trafficking.


Some major event needs to happen before they move , also IMO

Maybe a FIFA World Cup Final or something, when England win that, that's when the Grange team will be wrapping things up. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
Quite possibly, we shall know one way or the other in the fullness of time.  Meanwhile  I know you would favour an outcome which meant that all that money had been channeled correctly, resulting in justice for Madeleine, the evil predator put behind bars and thus keeping other children safe from befalling a similar fate to hers.  Wouldn’t you?

Absolutely.

I’m sure you would also join me in celebrating the fact that all the money still in Madeleine’s fund could, at long last, be given to help families in similar circumstances.

What joy.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2022, 10:56:39 PM
Absolutely.

I’m sure you would also join me in celebrating the fact that all the money still in Madeleine’s fund could, at long last, be given to help families in similar circumstances.

What joy.
Indeed, so glad we’re both on the same side after all these years, celebrating all the efforts of Operation Grange  to find Madeleine’s abductor and not resenting the many millions spent in that attempt.  I knew you would eventually see sense.  Let’s hold hands and sing kumbaya and fantasise about ways in which the  Fund money might be spent once Madeleine’s abductor is behind bars.  Should it all go to Kerry Needham or would that be a bit unfair on all the hundreds of thousands of other missing people around the world?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 08:22:19 AM
Fair enough.   I have never followed the Madding crowd, but always thought for myself and followed my own route thru life, taking care to consider others.

I think Elli and I are a bit the same, but she has a wonderful humour which I am envious of.   Bless her.


I am very much "Right Hand Path" as are most on our side.   I think "Left Hand Path" people lack a moral compass tbh.

I think that quite a lot of your ideas merit consideration, Sadie.  And jolly well done for sticking with it.

Thanks for the compliment, by the way.  I do try, but then someone has to.

I also believe that this Forum is a community and I very much doubt that anyone would come to blows if we were to meet, although I am not suggesting this.

There have been times over the years when I much depended on the communication and I suspect that a lot of others have as well.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 17, 2022, 12:53:55 PM
Absolutely.

I’m sure you would also join me in celebrating the fact that all the money still in Madeleine’s fund could, at long last, be given to help families in similar circumstances.

What joy.

I fear that a great deal of money will be needed for psychiatric help for Madeleine  8(8-))

I hope that I am wrong and that she readjusts easily and rapidly, ... then it would be wonderful if funds were available for the searches for other missing children and to support other families.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 17, 2022, 01:05:00 PM
I fear that a great deal of money will be needed for psychiatric help for Madeleine  8(8-))

I hope that I am wrong and that she readjusts easily and rapidly, ... then it would be wonderful if funds were available for the searches for other missing children and to support other families.

Yeah i remember this case in the US, starved and locked them in basement they needed speech therapy and social help. Was saddening watching the interview which she done.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 02:54:59 PM
Indeed, so glad we’re both on the same side after all these years, celebrating all the efforts of Operation Grange  to find Madeleine’s abductor and not resenting the many millions spent in that attempt.  I knew you would eventually see sense.  Let’s hold hands and sing kumbaya and fantasise about ways in which the  Fund money might be spent once Madeleine’s abductor is behind bars.  Should it all go to Kerry Needham or would that be a bit unfair on all the hundreds of thousands of other missing people around the world?

Or perhaps it could help Leonor Cipriano in her ongoing search to find her missing daughter? I seem to remember that the parents had a keen interest in that case at one point in time.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 03:05:01 PM
Or perhaps it could help Leonor Cipriano in her ongoing search to find her missing daughter? I seem to remember that the parents had a keen interest in that case at one point in time.
I guess that would be for Leonor to decide but she could probably do with the money, so yes why not?  Except that wouldn’t be fair on all the parents of other missing kids, so better to carve the fund up equally so every single parent gets a share, even if it’s only a couple of quid each.  After all everyone must be treated fairly and equally at all times, right?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 03:22:57 PM
I guess that would be for Leonor to decide but she could probably do with the money, so yes why not?  Except that wouldn’t be fair on all the parents of other missing kids, so better to carve the fund up equally so every single parent gets a share, even if it’s only a couple of quid each.  After all everyone must be treated fairly and equally at all times, right?

When it’s taxpayers money absolutely. This isn’t though so I suppose it would have to be awarded at the discretion of the fund directors.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 03:35:13 PM
When it’s taxpayers money absolutely. This isn’t though so I suppose it would have to be awarded at the discretion of the fund directors.
Quite.  It’s not for us to advise them what to do with that money is it (though no doubt you will have plenty to say on the matter whatever they eventually decide). 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 03:43:11 PM
Quite.  It’s not for us to advise them what to do with that money is it (though no doubt you will have plenty to say on the matter whatever they eventually decide).

Not advising, suggesting.

 What a lovely gesture it would be though by way of a thank you after Leonor and her family have done so much to help Gerry and Kate.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 03:48:00 PM
Not advising, suggesting.

 What a lovely gesture it would be though by way of a thank you after Leonor and her family have done so much to help Gerry and Kate.
Have they?  What have they done to help Gerry and Kate? 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 03:59:55 PM
Have they?  What have they done to help Gerry and Kate?

Of course if it had been me I’d have been appalled to have my name and that of my missing daughter associated in any way whatsoever with bottom feeders like the Ciprianos but hey needs must I suppose!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 05:05:28 PM
Of course if it had been me I’d have been appalled to have my name and that of my missing daughter associated in any way whatsoever with bottom feeders like the Ciprianos but hey needs must I suppose!
Sorry, that doesn’t quite answer my question - perhaps you could have another go?  Also why on earth would you be appalled to have your daughter’s name associated with that of another missing child who disappeared from the same area never to be seen again?  I’d not be appalled, it would be a red flag as far as I would be concerned, as it was for Mark Williams-Thomas for example.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
Sorry, that doesn’t quite answer my question - perhaps you could have another go?  Also why on earth would you be appalled to have your daughter’s name associated with that of another missing child who disappeared from the same area never to be seen again?  I’d not be appalled, it would be a red flag as far as I would be concerned, as it was for Mark Williams-Thomas for example.

And that would be your choice. Me…I’d studiously avoid my or my family’s name being connected to a murderer like Cipriano but perhaps I just have higher standards.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 08:16:42 PM
And that would be your choice. Me…I’d studiously avoid my or my family’s name being connected to a murderer like Cipriano but perhaps I just have higher standards.
Do you have some examples of the McCanns deliberately seeking out to connect their names to those of murderers?  You say you have higher standards but you seem very proud of your connection to convicted murderer Luke Mitchell.  How contrary you are!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 17, 2022, 10:20:06 PM
I've never given the freemasonry slurs levelled against Gerry as anything other than just another nasty and vicious rumour amongst the uncountable nasty and vicious lies permeating the internet.

I live very close to the town housing lodge #0 but of course I know nothing because it is a secret 😉 but I must by definition know many of these shady characters covering up all sorts of alleged criminality.

I never really thought about it from their perspective before.  But undoubtedly that organisation is being maligned by inference too.

Next time they have an open day (and that is no joke, this secretive lot distribute literature and do have regular open days) I'll mibbe pop in and ask who they think is being slurred - them or Gerry.

Nice building.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 10:35:01 PM
Do you have some examples of the McCanns deliberately seeking out to connect their names to those of murderers?  You say you have higher standards but you seem very proud of your connection to convicted murderer Luke Mitchell.  How comtrary you are!

I have no connection to Luke Mitchell other than I believe he’s innocent of the crime he was convicted of. Much as I believed that Paddy Hill and Michael Hickey were innocent of the crimes they were convicted of. Does that mean that I was ‘connected’ to them too?

An example of the parents seeking to connect their names to those of murderers? Eugene Zapata who admitted to murdering his wife and concealing her body exactly where cadaver dogs alerted.

https://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/mccanns%2Bon%2Bscent%2Bof%2Bdeath%2Balert/811347.html
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 10:45:57 PM
I have no connection to Luke Mitchell other than I believe he’s innocent of the crime he was convicted of. Much as I believed the Paddy Hill and Michael Hickey were innocent of the crimes they were convicted of. Does that mean that I was ‘connected’ to them too?

An example of the parents seeking to connect their names to those of murderers? Eugene Zapata who admitted to murdering his wife and concealing her body exactly where cadaver dogs alerted.

https://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/mccanns%2Bon%2Bscent%2Bof%2Bdeath%2Balert/811347.html
You and Luke Mitchell have a mutual friend who you have supported in her campaign to have him freed have you not?  That’s a connection is it not?  And I thought we were talking about the Ciprianos who you claimed the McCanns were keen to associate their names with?  Still no evidence of that so far.  As for Zapata I don’t think it was the fact of him being a murderer that the McCanns were keen to connect themselves to, in fact I don’t think he had been convicted at that point in time, so please stop with your silly accusations, there’s a love.  And we were getting along so well recently up until this point…
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 10:48:16 PM
Nice building.
Many masonic halls are, yes.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 10:59:00 PM
Nice building.
What would you expect!  They are masons after all.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2022, 11:06:17 PM
You and Luke Mitchell have a mutual friend who you have supported in her campaign to have him freed have you not?  That’s a connection is it not?  And I thought we were talking about the Ciprianos who you claimed the McCanns were keen to associate their names with?  Still no evidence of that so far.  As for Zapata I don’t think it was the fact of him being a murderer that the McCanns were keen to connect themselves to, in fact I don’t think he had been convicted at that point in time, so please stop with your silly accusations, there’s a love.  And we were getting along so well recently up until this point…

I was talking about the Ciprianos, who were convicted of murder, but you asked for ‘murderers’ so I duly obliged.

Once Amaral had been made an arguido in the Cipriano case the parents moved heaven and earth to hang on the coattails of that particular bandwagon…even to the extent of funnelling money through their detectives Metodo3 to Cipriano’s lawyer.

At the time the parents hitched their wagon to the Zapata case Eugene Zapata was on trial for murder, a murder he eventually confessed to.

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2022, 11:32:44 PM
I was talking about the Ciprianos, who were convicted of murder, but you asked for ‘murderers’ so I duly obliged.

Once Amaral had been made an arguido in the Cipriano case the parents moved heaven and earth to hang on the coattails of that particular bandwagon…even to the extent of funnelling money through their detectives Metodo3 to Cipriano’s lawyer.

At the time the parents hitched their wagon to the Zapata case Eugene Zapata was on trial for murder, a murder he eventually confessed to.
I believe at the time the McCanns mentioned the Zapata case briefly in some interview his case had been dismissed by a judge so I’m really not sure what you’re tryin to say or do apart from a desperate attempt to smear them by association.  Is that what you’re doing Faithlilly because if so that’s rather spiteful and silly isn’t it?  But if you want me to descend  to that level, how much money has your friend Sandra managed to funnel through to convicted murderer Luke Mitchell’s legal team? 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 12:06:22 AM
I believe at the time the McCanns mentioned the Zapata case briefly in some interview his case had been dismissed by a judge so I’m really not sure what you’re tryin to say or do apart from a desperate attempt to smear them by association.  Is that what you’re doing Faithlilly because if so that’s rather spiteful and silly isn’t it?  But if you want me to descend  to that level, how much money has your friend Sandra managed to funnel through to convicted murderer Luke Mitchell’s legal team?

The parents associated themselves with the murderer.

Further Zapata’s case was never dismissed by a judge, the cadaver dog evidence was. His trial ended in a hung jury. While a retrial was planned Zapata admitted to the killing and the dog evidence was found to be absolutely accurate.

As to Miss Lean I’ll certainly tell her you want to ask her a question.

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 18, 2022, 02:26:19 AM
Of course if it had been me I’d have been appalled to have my name and that of my missing daughter associated in any way whatsoever with bottom feeders like the Ciprianos but hey needs must I suppose!

How dare you !!!

That case and the Michael Cook case were the two most notorious cases of injustice I have ever come across.   Two Criminal PJ Officers leading the case.  Amaral and Cristavao.  Both making money on the backs of missing girls


Poor though they were, may I remind you that Leandro was an upright citizen who worked hard to make a living for them, Leonor and the children.

From photographs Leonor kept her home and childen very clean and she was loving to them all.   Leandro worked in a dirty industry, scrap metal and car breaking IIRC, so he looked dirty.   I worked in Engineering and many of the people there looked dirty after a days work, but as soon as they got home they showered  and cleaned up.   I bet Leandro cleaned up too.  He appears very caring too.

Please do not refer to poor people as bottom feeders.  I knew a guy in PT, a clever guy, who worked in a pharmacutical company.   No Brit would have got out of bed for what he earned; I was shocked.   Goodness knows how he managed to live

Your left wing ideologies seem to have slipped a bit there, Faith.   I think that you owe them an apology tbh.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 07:17:24 AM
The parents associated themselves with the murderer.

Further Zapata’s case was never dismissed by a judge, the cadaver dog evidence was. His trial ended in a hung jury. While a retrial was planned Zapata admitted to the killing and the dog evidence was found to be absolutely accurate.

As to Miss Lean I’ll certainly tell her you want to ask her a question.
As far as the McCanns were concerned their only interest in the Zapata case was the reliability and admissibility of the dog alerts.  They were not lending their support to a convicted murderer, certainly not in the way you and you mate have, so let’s get this straight: you claim to have higher standards than the McCanns and you claim you would studiously avoid lending support to murderers, but you’re talking pish.  As usual!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 07:20:00 AM
How dare you !!!

That case and the Michael Cook case were the two most notorious cases of injustice I have ever come across.   Two Criminal PJ Officers leading the case.  Amaral and Cristavao.  Both making money on the backs of missing girls


Poor though they were, may I remind you that Leandro was an upright citizen who worked hard to make a living for them, Leonor and the children.

From photographs Leonor kept her home and childen very clean and she was loving to them all.   Leandro worked in a dirty industry, scrap metal and car breaking IIRC, so he looked dirty.   I worked in Engineering and many of the people there looked dirty after a days work, but as soon as they got home they showered  and cleaned up.   I bet Leandro cleaned up too.  He appears very caring too.

Please do not refer to poor people as bottom feeders.  I knew a guy in PT, a clever guy, who worked in a pharmacutical company.   No Brit would have got out of bed for what he earned; I was shocked.   Goodness knows how he managed to live

Your left wing ideologies seem to have slipped a bit there, Faith.   I think that you owe them an apology tbh.
If there’s one thing champagne socialists like Faith have in spades it’s utter contempt for the poor and the working classes.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 18, 2022, 08:45:03 AM
Many masonic halls are, yes.

True
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 18, 2022, 08:51:29 AM
What would you expect!  They are masons after all.

Like “they are golfers after all”?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 18, 2022, 08:57:22 AM
Like “they are golfers after all”?

Not really
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 18, 2022, 09:03:25 AM
Not really

It’s the assumption made that having nice facilities is in some way an inditement of masonry…
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 18, 2022, 09:05:42 AM
It’s the assumption made that having nice facilities is in some way an inditement of masonry…

Quite a few are rented and actually outdated lol. But i bet gerry goes to a plush one.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 10:19:51 AM
Quite a few are rented and actually outdated lol. But i bet gerry goes to a plush one.
Only the best for our Gezza.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2022, 10:26:31 AM
Freemasonry is represented by Edward Smethurst, the McCann's legal coordinator who was made a director of Madeleine's Fund in January 2008.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 10:30:21 AM
Freemasonry is represented by Edward Smethurst, the McCann's legal coordinator who was made a director of Madeleine's Fund in January 2008.
Ah that will be it then.  It was Ed that pulled in the favour on behalf of his mates.  Say no more...  8(>((
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 18, 2022, 10:36:40 AM
Freemasonry is represented by Edward Smethurst, the McCann's legal coordinator who was made a director of Madeleine's Fund in January 2008.

And?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2022, 10:58:37 AM
And?

Just an observation.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 18, 2022, 11:03:25 AM
Just an observation.

Thanks
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 11:32:39 AM
As far as the McCanns were concerned their only interest in the Zapata case was the reliability and admissibility of the dog alerts.  They were not lending their support to a convicted murderer, certainly not in the way you and you mate have, so let’s get this straight: you claim to have higher standards than the McCanns and you claim you would studiously avoid lending support to murderers, but you’re talking pish.  As usual!

The parents backed the wrong horse and it backfired horrendously. That’s the truth. The dog alerts were, in the end, absolutely correct and the parents besmirched their names for no gain.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 11:36:08 AM
If there’s one thing champagne socialists like Faith have in spades it’s utter contempt for the poor and the working classes.

It’s not that Cipriano is poor that offends me, it’s that she killed her daughter.

Even socialists tend to baulk at filicide.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 11:50:23 AM
The parents backed the wrong horse and it backfired horrendously. That’s the truth. The dog alerts were, in the end, absolutely correct and the parents besmirched their names for no gain.
You don't half write some nonsense.  In what way did it "backfire horrendously"?  What were the consequences other than to give a few nasty spiteful folk on the internet alot of happiness and ammunition in their pathetic war against the McCanns and their supporters?  There were literally no other consequences for the McCanns in the real world - they did not get charged because of it, they did not get damning international headlines as a result of it, any harm they suffered from "backing the wrong horse" is all in your and your fellow [ censored word ]s' minds.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 11:55:10 AM
It’s not that Cipriano is poor that offends me, it’s that she killed her daughter.

Even socialists tend to baulk at filicide.

I don't think she did.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2022, 12:11:09 PM
You don't half write some nonsense.  In what way did it "backfire horrendously"?  What were the consequences other than to give a few nasty spiteful folk on the internet alot of happiness and ammunition in their pathetic war against the McCanns and their supporters?  There were literally no other consequences for the McCanns in the real world - they did not get charged because of it, they did not get damning international headlines as a result of it, any harm they suffered from "backing the wrong horse" is all in your and your fellow [ censored word ]s' minds.

It stems from conspiracy theorists' need to have a "conspiracy" to rail about.

Having had the misfortune of checking out the dark underbelly of the tripe they invent to slur the McCanns there is absolutely nothing their diseased minds haven't indulged and I mean nothing.
It is difficult to conceive of such malice ... but they have conceived it and never tire of spewing it out.

The use of their plucked out of the air world domination Freemasonry invention is nothing at all in comparison with some of the insane filth they are responsible for promulgating.

It is difficult to bear in mind they are more to be pitied than laughed at ... but my opinion is they have no redeeming features.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2022, 12:17:19 PM
I don't think she did.

I do not think there is one poster here who would not confess to whatever confession demanded if they had been held incommunicado and tortured to their sever injury for forty eight hours by five men.

NB The torture of Leonor Cipriano was proven in the Portuguese Courts!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 12:30:18 PM
It’s not that Cipriano is poor that offends me, it’s that she killed her daughter.

Even socialists tend to baulk at filicide.
Pull the other one, it's got bells on.  The term you used was "bottom feeder" which does not refer to actions but to social status
"a member of a group of very low social status who survives by any means possible".
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 12:30:26 PM
I do not think there is one poster here who would not confess to whatever confession demanded if they had been held incommunicado and tortured to their sever injury for forty eight hours by five men.

NB The torture of Leonor Cipriano was proven in the Portuguese Courts!

This is just another example of Portuguese Justice to me.  As if Michael Cooke wasn't bad enough.

Free Masonry?  Have they got anything like this in Portugal?  Or is Corruption the guiding light?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2022, 12:54:23 PM
The parents backed the wrong horse and it backfired horrendously. That’s the truth. The dog alerts were, in the end, absolutely correct and the parents besmirched their names for no gain.

I wonder who the source close to the McCanns' solicitors was who leaked the story in September 2007 that their legal team were in touch with Zapata's defence lawers. It seems the legal team saw the dog alerts in Portugal as a threat. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 01:05:35 PM
I wonder who the source close to the McCanns' solicitors was who leaked the story in September 2007 that their legal team were in touch with Zapata's defence lawers. It seems the legal team saw the dog alerts in Portugal as a threat.

Of course they did. Nothing but complete desperation would have driven  anyone to draw attention to the similarities between a man on trial for murder and their case. As it happened it was a terrible move and strengthened the case against them rather than weakened it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 18, 2022, 01:05:52 PM
Del.  Double posted
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 01:07:03 PM
I wonder who the source close to the McCanns' solicitors was who leaked the story in September 2007 that their legal team were in touch with Zapata's defence lawers. It seems the legal team saw the dog alerts in Portugal as a threat.

Well that was a waste of time.  Nothing ever came of The Dogs, especially after Jersey.  And nothing much happened in America either.

But was Martin Grime a Free Mason?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 18, 2022, 01:09:37 PM
I don't think she did.

Joana lived and still does, attached to a rich family.

I have three reasons to believe she lived and still does.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 01:10:07 PM
Of course they did. Nothing but complete desperation would have driven  anyone to draw attention to the similarities between a man on trial for murder and their case. As it happened it was a terrible move and strengthened the case against them rather than weakened it.

Don't be daft.  Nothing happened to The McCanns.  Perhaps it was they Free Masons after all.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 18, 2022, 01:15:42 PM
Don't be daft.  Nothing happened to The McCanns.  Perhaps it was they Free Masons after all.

Plush freemason. I didnt knpw about the chap earlier but hey ho maybe its a point or a pointless comment to make unless traction is made 😅
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 01:17:26 PM
Don't be daft.  Nothing happened to The McCanns.  Perhaps it was they Free Masons after all.

Ah you mean apart from their eldest daughter still being missing.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2022, 01:27:16 PM
I wonder who the source close to the McCanns' solicitors was who leaked the story in September 2007 that their legal team were in touch with Zapata's defence lawers. It seems the legal team saw the dog alerts in Portugal as a threat.

I wonder when on earth are people like you ever going to refrain from displaying your abject ignorance regarding all things canine and develop the requisite skills to post on topic.  What is the significance re the dogs and freemasonry.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 01:28:05 PM
Ah you mean apart from their eldest daughter still being missing.

I think we all know that.  But it was The Dogs who were in question, although we don't hear much about them these days.

American Dog Handlers were always much better at this than Martin Grime.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2022, 01:33:03 PM
I think we all know that.  But it was The Dogs who were in question, although we don't hear much about them these days.

American Dog Handlers were always much better at this than Martin Grime.

Many of their dogs actually were really Enhanced.  Not just pretendy ones.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 01:33:52 PM
As I mentioned earlier, my brother was a Grand Master at one point and he wouldn't have stood for any such nonsense.

But I did forget to mention that he is a Jew by right of birth through the female line.  So how does that gel?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 01:37:02 PM
Pull the other one, it's got bells on.  The term you used was "bottom feeder" which does not refer to actions but to social status
"a member of a group of very low social status who survives by any means possible".

Nothing to do with social status. I’d argue that Boris Johnson is a bottom feeder.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bottom%20feeder
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 01:37:54 PM
Many of their dogs actually were really Enhanced.  Not just pretendy ones.

I know, having watched a few things over the years.  And of course, American Dog Handlers always were more inclined to tell The Truth.

How does Free Masonry hang in America?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2022, 02:14:30 PM
I know, having watched a few things over the years.  And of course, American Dog Handlers always were more inclined to tell The Truth.

How does Free Masonry hang in America?

I watched a programme once following the Dan Brown books and movies and apparently it is rife over there.  We were told about all about the masonic symbols incorporated into the design of the paper currency.

The programme obviously had a pivotal effect on me because that is as much as I remember about it.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 02:16:08 PM
Nothing to do with social status. I’d argue that Boris Johnson is a bottom feeder.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bottom%20feeder
You'd argue that black was white.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 02:18:48 PM
Of course they did. Nothing but complete desperation would have driven  anyone to draw attention to the similarities between a man on trial for murder and their case. As it happened it was a terrible move and strengthened the case against them rather than weakened it.
Explain how, if it strengthened the case against them, that no mention was made of it at all in the archiving summary when they had their arguido status dropped for a lack of any evidence of the practice of a crime?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 02:40:38 PM
You'd argue that black was white.

And you don’t like to be corrected.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 03:22:51 PM
And you don’t like to be corrected.
you are simply ridiculous.  So when you referred to the Ciprianos which of these definitions did you mean actually?

Definition of bottom-feeder
1: a fish that feeds at the bottom
2: one that is of the lowest status or rank
3: an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bottom-feeder
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 03:34:10 PM

Meanwhile, Casa Pia was going on, which largely involved the upper echelons.

What ever happened about that I wonder?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 03:39:03 PM
you are simply ridiculous.  So when you referred to the Ciprianos which of these definitions did you mean actually?

Definition of bottom-feeder
1: a fish that feeds at the bottom
2: one that is of the lowest status or rank
3: an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bottom-feeder

This one

“ leech, or in other words a total lack of responsibility to provide for oneself. Relies heavily upon friends, neighbors or anyone really for sustenance. a slacker through and through.”

See link above.

You stated that the judge had thrown out the case against Zapata. That was incorrect. I corrected you.

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2022, 05:05:12 PM
I wonder when on earth are people like you ever going to refrain from displaying your abject ignorance regarding all things canine and develop the requisite skills to post on topic.  What is the significance re the dogs and freemasonry.

You tell me, you're posting about them too.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 18, 2022, 05:07:34 PM
Meanwhile, Casa Pia was going on, which largely involved the upper echelons.

What ever happened about that I wonder?

There is a new Casa Pia somewhere in PT.   Men of money and high status cannot be allowed to go thru life without their depraved wants.   

And the Masters behind this cruel and sordid trade have the know how and wealth to set up a new one/ ones.   Over centuries they have developed the ability to hide themselves; they have other bone fide businesses which mask their involvement and workers in the sordid trade who don't even know who their Masters are.


They themselves often are perverted and use the boys.   &%^^  Oh, and they need the Mega bucks, don't they?   Very clever.


Not sure everything I am saying is spot on, but I bet it is over 90% correct
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 05:21:16 PM
This one

“ leech, or in other words a total lack of responsibility to provide for oneself. Relies heavily upon friends, neighbors or anyone really for sustenance. a slacker through and through.”

See link above.

You stated that the judge had thrown out the case against Zapata. That was incorrect. I corrected you.
Anyone can write the definitions in the Urban Dictionary so if one person used a word to mean something it could appear under the word’s heading even if it’s not the usual widely understood meaning.  For example I could add the word “faithlilly” with the definition “irritating holier-than-thou internet pest who always thinks they’re right even when they’re not”.  I provided an actual dictionary definition.  “Bottom feeder” is most often used to mean in descending order the three definitions I posted above, none of which you will admit applying to the Ciprianos.  In any case the definition you have provided may not be appropriate- were the Ciprianos not gainfully employed at the time? What evidence do you have that they sponged off their friends and neighbours for sustenance?
As for your correction I did not argue the toss on that.  Always happy to be corrected if I am in the wrong, unlike yourself it would seem so you are incorrect to say I don’t like being corrected.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 18, 2022, 06:14:59 PM
I watched a programme once following the Dan Brown books and movies and apparently it is rife over there.  We were told about all about the masonic symbols incorporated into the design of the paper currency.

The programme obviously had a pivotal effect on me because that is as much as I remember about it.


https://www.fanpop.com/clubs/the-lost-symbol/images/9756724/title/masonic-pyramid-all-seeing-eye-photo?card


(https://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9700000/Masonic-Pyramid-the-all-seeing-eye-the-lost-symbol-9756724-421-454.jpg)

The lowest level is the common Mason , a good living respected man usually.   He supports the upper levels including backing the upper levels even in criminality.  The General public see these men as pillars of society, which they are generally.  Pity they are willing to support wrongdoing in the upper echelons

Each layer represents a higher status.

The top layers are untouchables, who keep themselves higher than anyone else and in between there are Aristocracy , Knights of xyz, etc. going down to Grand Masters and the common mason at the bottom.

I have done this from memory and it is incomplete.   Also a bit vague - soz.   But the role of the common Mason was purely, imo, to support the upper echelons.   That was why they were invited in, IMO.    In return the common Mason was part of a club that sounded posh and had members who were generally from a similar social background and this mystik club also had some impressive names in it including aristocracy.

We used to be invited to Masonic Ladies Evening and it was very nice, but I personally preferred the Rabby Burns Ladies evenings when we ate

                            *Rost Tit and Bubbly Jock*     

Very tasty it was too.

The kilted men all drank to Rabbie with their one foot on their chair and the other on the table.  Very dramatic and rather exciting.   


At one time there were lots of such masonic pyramids showing on the internet, but they seem to have vanished.   They differed a bit.    I wonder why they have vanished?

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 07:34:10 PM
Anyone can write the definitions in the Urban Dictionary so if one person used a word to mean something it could appear under the word’s heading even if it’s not the usual widely understood meaning.  For example I could add the word “faithlilly” with the definition “irritating holier-than-thou internet pest who always thinks they’re right even when they’re not”.  I provided an actual dictionary definition.  “Bottom feeder” is most often used to mean in descending order the three definitions I posted above, none of which you will admit applying to the Ciprianos.  In any case the definition you have provided may not be appropriate- were the Ciprianos not gainfully employed at the time? What evidence do you have that they sponged off their friends and neighbours for sustenance?
As for your correction I did not argue the toss on that.  Always happy to be corrected if I am in the wrong, unlike yourself it would seem so you are incorrect to say I don’t like being corrected.

II. RATIONALE

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:

a) the arguidos are siblings;

b) the arguido AA [Joao Cipriano] has never held a regular job or residence, living inside a vehicle or at his siblings' house, surviving on occasional jobs that he performed on diverse locations;

c) the arguido AA expresses contempt for human life – a result of a poor social adjustment and affective coldness – and has anti-social/psychopathic tendencies with a difficulty to control his impulses, which leads him to be aggressive, trying to solve conflicts through said aggressiveness, feeling no remorse for the consequences of the actions that he thus performs, despising other people's rights, wishes or feelings;

d) through a ruling that has been validated in court, and given on 10.11.1993, arguido AA was condemned to a 4-year prison sentence over the practice, on 2.10.1992, of a crime of attempted homicide, (...). Said ruling includes that the arguido was convinced, by a third party that lived with one of the arguido's sisters (GG) to take the life of another person who had left him blind, in exchange for 20.000$00 and a motorbike (...);

e) the arguida BB [Leonor Cipriano] manifests socially deviant behaviour at the level of norms, values and responsibilities, emotional instability and difficulties in expressing frustration, while her socialisation was marked by immature, superficial and narcissistic interpersonal relationships, where characteristics of manipulation (to satisfy her own needs) and aggressiveness (of mainly sadistic tonality) are stand out, while in her personality the absence of empathy and the insensibility are salient, leading to the arguida's despise for other people's rights, needs and sentiments, directing her aggressiveness towards them, with a weak capacity to feel remorse. She possesses a borderline personality with anti-social/psychopathic, narcissistic and schizoid traits;

f) the arguida BB, who has six children from five relationships, has been showing some lack of interest in her elder children, throughout her life;

g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;

h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;

i) the fourth child, HH, who presently lives with his father in Porches, was left home alone by the arguido BB at the age of 7 months, buckled to his chair, which is how he was found by neighbours who perceived the situation;

j) at that time, arguida BB started living with II [Leandro Silva], a relationship that produced two children, [Name removed] and KK;

l) the third child that she bore was CC [Joana], who was born on 31.05.1996, a daughter of LL;

m) minor CC, in September 2004, was aged eight, being thin and measuring between 1,20 and 1,40 metres; (2)

n) minor CC was sometimes sad;

o) the arguida BB did not exercise any professional activity;

p) when the arguida was living with partner II, minor CC helped her mother with some home chores, as she sometimes helped to clean the house, took care of her younger siblings and went shopping;

q) before arguida BB moved in with her partner II, she wanted to stop having CC under her care, and left her, at the age of 5 months, with her father, LL – with whom she had no relationship since the beginning of the pregnancy – who ended up 'returning' her 2 days later, and later, she once more handed her over to the father, who didn't want to keep her;

r) in September 2003, arguida BB left CC under the care of a couple of persons with alcoholism problems and with a bed-ridden child that had an infecto-contagious illness, in a house with no conditions whatsoever, for 2 or 3 weeks;

s) on the first day of school for minor CC at the Primary School in Figueira, in the school year of 2003/2004, arguida BB didn't walk the minor to school, and CC arrived with a neighbour, whom she asked for help because she couldn't find the way;

t) on another occasion, the same neighbour took the minor to hospital, at a moment when she was visibly ill with a strong cough;”




Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2022, 08:30:50 PM
II. RATIONALE

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:

a) the arguidos are siblings;

b) the arguido AA [Joao Cipriano] has never held a regular job or residence, living inside a vehicle or at his siblings' house, surviving on occasional jobs that he performed on diverse locations;

c) the arguido AA expresses contempt for human life – a result of a poor social adjustment and affective coldness – and has anti-social/psychopathic tendencies with a difficulty to control his impulses, which leads him to be aggressive, trying to solve conflicts through said aggressiveness, feeling no remorse for the consequences of the actions that he thus performs, despising other people's rights, wishes or feelings;

d) through a ruling that has been validated in court, and given on 10.11.1993, arguido AA was condemned to a 4-year prison sentence over the practice, on 2.10.1992, of a crime of attempted homicide, (...). Said ruling includes that the arguido was convinced, by a third party that lived with one of the arguido's sisters (GG) to take the life of another person who had left him blind, in exchange for 20.000$00 and a motorbike (...);

e) the arguida BB [Leonor Cipriano] manifests socially deviant behaviour at the level of norms, values and responsibilities, emotional instability and difficulties in expressing frustration, while her socialisation was marked by immature, superficial and narcissistic interpersonal relationships, where characteristics of manipulation (to satisfy her own needs) and aggressiveness (of mainly sadistic tonality) are stand out, while in her personality the absence of empathy and the insensibility are salient, leading to the arguida's despise for other people's rights, needs and sentiments, directing her aggressiveness towards them, with a weak capacity to feel remorse. She possesses a borderline personality with anti-social/psychopathic, narcissistic and schizoid traits;

f) the arguida BB, who has six children from five relationships, has been showing some lack of interest in her elder children, throughout her life;

g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;

h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;

i) the fourth child, HH, who presently lives with his father in Porches, was left home alone by the arguido BB at the age of 7 months, buckled to his chair, which is how he was found by neighbours who perceived the situation;

j) at that time, arguida BB started living with II [Leandro Silva], a relationship that produced two children, [Name removed] and KK;

l) the third child that she bore was CC [Joana], who was born on 31.05.1996, a daughter of LL;

m) minor CC, in September 2004, was aged eight, being thin and measuring between 1,20 and 1,40 metres; (2)

n) minor CC was sometimes sad;

o) the arguida BB did not exercise any professional activity;

p) when the arguida was living with partner II, minor CC helped her mother with some home chores, as she sometimes helped to clean the house, took care of her younger siblings and went shopping;

q) before arguida BB moved in with her partner II, she wanted to stop having CC under her care, and left her, at the age of 5 months, with her father, LL – with whom she had no relationship since the beginning of the pregnancy – who ended up 'returning' her 2 days later, and later, she once more handed her over to the father, who didn't want to keep her;

r) in September 2003, arguida BB left CC under the care of a couple of persons with alcoholism problems and with a bed-ridden child that had an infecto-contagious illness, in a house with no conditions whatsoever, for 2 or 3 weeks;

s) on the first day of school for minor CC at the Primary School in Figueira, in the school year of 2003/2004, arguida BB didn't walk the minor to school, and CC arrived with a neighbour, whom she asked for help because she couldn't find the way;

t) on another occasion, the same neighbour took the minor to hospital, at a moment when she was visibly ill with a strong cough;”

The court also considered proved that Joannas blood was found in the fridge...when there was no evidence to support this...never mind proof. They could have tested it fir dna but didn't bother.

Didn't they say in the proven facts in the McCann case the dog signalled cadaver odour.

It seems in Portugal they make the proof up as they go along.
It's better to look at the evidence rather than the proven facts
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2022, 08:35:34 PM
From the proven facts in the McCann case..

6. The dogs Eddie and Keela, from the British police, have detected human blood and cadaver scent in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club.

7. The dogs Eddie and Keela, from the British police, have detected human blood and cadaver scent in the vehicle rented by the applicants Kate McCann and Gerald McCann after Madeleine's disappearance.


Complete and utter junk from the Portuguese judiciary
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 08:38:49 PM
II. RATIONALE

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:

a) the arguidos are siblings;

b) the arguido AA [Joao Cipriano] has never held a regular job or residence, living inside a vehicle or at his siblings' house, surviving on occasional jobs that he performed on diverse locations;

c) the arguido AA expresses contempt for human life – a result of a poor social adjustment and affective coldness – and has anti-social/psychopathic tendencies with a difficulty to control his impulses, which leads him to be aggressive, trying to solve conflicts through said aggressiveness, feeling no remorse for the consequences of the actions that he thus performs, despising other people's rights, wishes or feelings;

d) through a ruling that has been validated in court, and given on 10.11.1993, arguido AA was condemned to a 4-year prison sentence over the practice, on 2.10.1992, of a crime of attempted homicide, (...). Said ruling includes that the arguido was convinced, by a third party that lived with one of the arguido's sisters (GG) to take the life of another person who had left him blind, in exchange for 20.000$00 and a motorbike (...);

e) the arguida BB [Leonor Cipriano] manifests socially deviant behaviour at the level of norms, values and responsibilities, emotional instability and difficulties in expressing frustration, while her socialisation was marked by immature, superficial and narcissistic interpersonal relationships, where characteristics of manipulation (to satisfy her own needs) and aggressiveness (of mainly sadistic tonality) are stand out, while in her personality the absence of empathy and the insensibility are salient, leading to the arguida's despise for other people's rights, needs and sentiments, directing her aggressiveness towards them, with a weak capacity to feel remorse. She possesses a borderline personality with anti-social/psychopathic, narcissistic and schizoid traits;

f) the arguida BB, who has six children from five relationships, has been showing some lack of interest in her elder children, throughout her life;

g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;

h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;

i) the fourth child, HH, who presently lives with his father in Porches, was left home alone by the arguido BB at the age of 7 months, buckled to his chair, which is how he was found by neighbours who perceived the situation;

j) at that time, arguida BB started living with II [Leandro Silva], a relationship that produced two children, [Name removed] and KK;

l) the third child that she bore was CC [Joana], who was born on 31.05.1996, a daughter of LL;

m) minor CC, in September 2004, was aged eight, being thin and measuring between 1,20 and 1,40 metres; (2)

n) minor CC was sometimes sad;

o) the arguida BB did not exercise any professional activity;

p) when the arguida was living with partner II, minor CC helped her mother with some home chores, as she sometimes helped to clean the house, took care of her younger siblings and went shopping;

q) before arguida BB moved in with her partner II, she wanted to stop having CC under her care, and left her, at the age of 5 months, with her father, LL – with whom she had no relationship since the beginning of the pregnancy – who ended up 'returning' her 2 days later, and later, she once more handed her over to the father, who didn't want to keep her;

r) in September 2003, arguida BB left CC under the care of a couple of persons with alcoholism problems and with a bed-ridden child that had an infecto-contagious illness, in a house with no conditions whatsoever, for 2 or 3 weeks;

s) on the first day of school for minor CC at the Primary School in Figueira, in the school year of 2003/2004, arguida BB didn't walk the minor to school, and CC arrived with a neighbour, whom she asked for help because she couldn't find the way;

t) on another occasion, the same neighbour took the minor to hospital, at a moment when she was visibly ill with a strong cough;”
So they weren’t both gainfully employed at the time?  OK.  So I guess it’s only right to call people without proper jobs, who are impoverished, backward and from dysfunctional families and with chaotic family lives bottom feeders then.  Thanks for the social sciences lesson.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 08:41:40 PM
The court also considered proved that Joannas blood was found in the fridge...when there was no evidence to support this...never mind proof. They could have tested it fir dna but didn't bother.

Didn't they say in the proven facts in the McCann case the dog signalled cadaver odour.

It seems in Portugal they make the proof up as they go along.
It's better to look at the evidence rather than the proven facts
The fact that they established all these so called facts in court in about three days stinks to high heaven to me.  Who ever heard of a murder trial of two individuals being decided so quickly? 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 08:51:52 PM
The court also considered proved that Joannas blood was found in the fridge...when there was no evidence to support this...never mind proof. They could have tested it fir dna but didn't bother.

Didn't they say in the proven facts in the McCann case the dog signalled cadaver odour.

It seems in Portugal they make the proof up as they go along.
It's better to look at the evidence rather than the proven facts
All those so-called proven facts quoted in the summary provided by Faithlilly are basically the prosecution’s opinion.  When and how were they challenged?  When the prosecutor called them psychopaths was the defence not able to question this or provide the defence’s own summary of “proven facts”?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 09:03:12 PM
The fact that they established all these so called facts in court in about three days stinks to high heaven to me.  Who ever heard of a murder trial of two individuals being decided so quickly?

A lot of the Defence Witnesses weren't even heard, according to what I read about it all.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 09:04:48 PM

Didn't one of The Judges disagree and thought they were innocent?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 09:18:53 PM
So they weren’t both gainfully employed at the time?  OK.  So I guess it’s only right to call people without proper jobs, who are impoverished, backward and from dysfunctional families and with chaotic family lives bottom feeders then.  Thanks for the social sciences lesson.

You may think that, I don’t agree.

I think it’s reasonable though to call a mother who murders her daughter a bottom feeder.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 09:21:11 PM
Didn't one of The Judges disagree and thought they were innocent?

One judge didn’t believe the case had been proven. The others however disagreed.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2022, 09:25:20 PM
One judge didn’t believe the case had been proven. The others however disagreed.
I prefer to look at the evidence..there isn't any apart from the confession beaten out of her...I'm not surprised you support police brutality...lol
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 18, 2022, 09:28:15 PM
One judge didn’t believe the case had been proven. The others however disagreed.

Thank you.

Doesn't Not Proven mean Innocent?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 09:34:36 PM
You may think that, I don’t agree.

I think it’s reasonable though to call a mother who murders her daughter a bottom feeder.
Murderer is not usually a dictionary definition of the term in question. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 09:35:34 PM
One judge didn’t believe the case had been proven. The others however disagreed.
How on earth was the case proven?  There was literally no evidence at all!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Thank you.

Doesn't Not Proven mean Innocent?

No…that’s why it’s called the b........ verdict. You’re neither cleared or convicted.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 09:42:56 PM
How on earth was the case proven?  There was literally no evidence at all!

You mean apart from her partner in crime’s filmed confession?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2022, 09:50:58 PM
You mean apart from her partner in crime’s filmed confession?
Your ignorance is laughable..just off for a run now..preparing for my next marathon
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2022, 10:06:02 PM
You mean apart from her partner in crime’s filmed confession?
Even confessions need supporting evidence as people do falsely confess often under duress. 
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2022, 10:06:31 PM
Your ignorance is laughable..just off for a run now..preparing for my next marathon

Make sure you don’t trip…it’s dark out there.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on August 19, 2022, 01:39:07 AM
II. RATIONALE

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:

a) the arguidos are siblings;

b) the arguido AA [Joao Cipriano] has never held a regular job or residence, living inside a vehicle or at his siblings' house, surviving on occasional jobs that he performed on diverse locations;

c) the arguido AA expresses contempt for human life – a result of a poor social adjustment and affective coldness – and has anti-social/psychopathic tendencies with a difficulty to control his impulses, which leads him to be aggressive, trying to solve conflicts through said aggressiveness, feeling no remorse for the consequences of the actions that he thus performs, despising other people's rights, wishes or feelings;

d) through a ruling that has been validated in court, and given on 10.11.1993, arguido AA was condemned to a 4-year prison sentence over the practice, on 2.10.1992, of a crime of attempted homicide, (...). Said ruling includes that the arguido was convinced, by a third party that lived with one of the arguido's sisters (GG) to take the life of another person who had left him blind, in exchange for 20.000$00 and a motorbike (...);

e) the arguida BB [Leonor Cipriano] manifests socially deviant behaviour at the level of norms, values and responsibilities, emotional instability and difficulties in expressing frustration, while her socialisation was marked by immature, superficial and narcissistic interpersonal relationships, where characteristics of manipulation (to satisfy her own needs) and aggressiveness (of mainly sadistic tonality) are stand out, while in her personality the absence of empathy and the insensibility are salient, leading to the arguida's despise for other people's rights, needs and sentiments, directing her aggressiveness towards them, with a weak capacity to feel remorse. She possesses a borderline personality with anti-social/psychopathic, narcissistic and schizoid traits;

f) the arguida BB, who has six children from five relationships, has been showing some lack of interest in her elder children, throughout her life;

g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;

h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;

i) the fourth child, HH, who presently lives with his father in Porches, was left home alone by the arguido BB at the age of 7 months, buckled to his chair, which is how he was found by neighbours who perceived the situation;

j) at that time, arguida BB started living with II [Leandro Silva], a relationship that produced two children, [Name removed] and KK;

l) the third child that she bore was CC [Joana], who was born on 31.05.1996, a daughter of LL;

m) minor CC, in September 2004, was aged eight, being thin and measuring between 1,20 and 1,40 metres; (2)

n) minor CC was sometimes sad;

o) the arguida BB did not exercise any professional activity;

p) when the arguida was living with partner II, minor CC helped her mother with some home chores, as she sometimes helped to clean the house, took care of her younger siblings and went shopping;

q) before arguida BB moved in with her partner II, she wanted to stop having CC under her care, and left her, at the age of 5 months, with her father, LL – with whom she had no relationship since the beginning of the pregnancy – who ended up 'returning' her 2 days later, and later, she once more handed her over to the father, who didn't want to keep her;

r) in September 2003, arguida BB left CC under the care of a couple of persons with alcoholism problems and with a bed-ridden child that had an infecto-contagious illness, in a house with no conditions whatsoever, for 2 or 3 weeks;

s) on the first day of school for minor CC at the Primary School in Figueira, in the school year of 2003/2004, arguida BB didn't walk the minor to school, and CC arrived with a neighbour, whom she asked for help because she couldn't find the way;

t) on another occasion, the same neighbour took the minor to hospital, at a moment when she was visibly ill with a strong cough;”

It has been wiped now but in one report it stated that a wealthy man saw Leonor working in the fields and likeing the look of her took her and raped her.   She was only 13 or 14 at the time   I cant remember which.   Poor girl, that was how her first baby was conceived.   Her prospects were ruined after that, but Leandro , a good man, loved her properly and made her his wife.   Poor woman, how she was abused by the PJ

As for point (m), there was nothing thin about Joana.   She was not short for her age; she was average in fact.


https://www.lifemeasure.com/height-charts/girls/8-years-old

(https://www.lifemeasure.com/height-charts/girls/8-years-old)



Tis a fabrication, and I have only looked at one point on the list, so far.

But then both the officers in charge of the case are proven liars and criminals
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 08:24:24 AM
Make sure you don’t trip…it’s dark out there.
Sage advice shame it was too late for this guy
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jeremy-corbyn-black-eye-tripping-over-tree-103029555.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH323sB7mO6tRiXEw_antMnnzlzt5zdonUu9B8hG4AcZ0ELIi_GsTqFwSmqfd6nPOylkkBseNvaWYTWYnG2_VN-KBUzmL4RyF44acN6twdWLpfjdaE1LMBMQUKBbYgr4A7aM_P7HMdYfZHd8A1ftY26nzHWnbsFZPs9Vwk7gxL6I
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 19, 2022, 08:36:03 AM

https://www.fanpop.com/clubs/the-lost-symbol/images/9756724/title/masonic-pyramid-all-seeing-eye-photo?card


(https://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9700000/Masonic-Pyramid-the-all-seeing-eye-the-lost-symbol-9756724-421-454.jpg)

The lowest level is the common Mason , a good living respected man usually.   He supports the upper levels including backing the upper levels even in criminality.  The General public see these men as pillars of society, which they are generally.  Pity they are willing to support wrongdoing in the upper echelons

Each layer represents a higher status.

The top layers are untouchables, who keep themselves higher than anyone else and in between there are Aristocracy , Knights of xyz, etc. going down to Grand Masters and the common mason at the bottom.

I have done this from memory and it is incomplete.   Also a bit vague - soz.   But the role of the common Mason was purely, imo, to support the upper echelons.   That was why they were invited in, IMO.    In return the common Mason was part of a club that sounded posh and had members who were generally from a similar social background and this mystik club also had some impressive names in it including aristocracy.

We used to be invited to Masonic Ladies Evening and it was very nice, but I personally preferred the Rabby Burns Ladies evenings when we ate

                            *Rost Tit and Bubbly Jock*     

Very tasty it was too.

The kilted men all drank to Rabbie with their one foot on their chair and the other on the table.  Very dramatic and rather exciting.   


At one time there were lots of such masonic pyramids showing on the internet, but they seem to have vanished.   They differed a bit.    I wonder why they have vanished?


You are David Icke and I claim my £5.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 08:49:46 AM
Sage advice shame it was too late for this guy
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jeremy-corbyn-black-eye-tripping-over-tree-103029555.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH323sB7mO6tRiXEw_antMnnzlzt5zdonUu9B8hG4AcZ0ELIi_GsTqFwSmqfd6nPOylkkBseNvaWYTWYnG2_VN-KBUzmL4RyF44acN6twdWLpfjdaE1LMBMQUKBbYgr4A7aM_P7HMdYfZHd8A1ftY26nzHWnbsFZPs9Vwk7gxL6I

Now that was really funny.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 08:52:36 AM

This Thread Topic seems to have fallen by the wayside.  Sorry, sorry for my contribution.

Gerry McCann a Freemason.  Anybody?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 09:46:20 AM
This Thread Topic seems to have fallen by the wayside.  Sorry, sorry for my contribution.

Gerry McCann a Freemason.  Anybody?
Yes he is, it's obvious you can tell by the way he rubs his ear.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 09:54:26 AM
Yes he is, it's obvious you can tell by the way he rubs his ear.

But Gerry was a Surgeon as well, according to Amaral.

Which ear did Gerry rub?  This is seriously important.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 10:21:04 AM
Now that was really funny.

Yep, the over 70s injuring themselves is always a hoot though it’s not so much fun I find if they don’t knock themselves out as well.

I’ll never understand the antipathy towards this man. Shame on him that he wanted us all not to have to chose between heating and eating….what an absolute ba**tard !
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 19, 2022, 10:23:23 AM
This Thread Topic seems to have fallen by the wayside.  Sorry, sorry for my contribution.

Gerry McCann a Freemason.  Anybody?

Would find it difficult for him to find free time tbh
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 10:31:14 AM
Yep, the over 70s injuring themselves is always a hoot though it’s not so much fun I find if they don’t knock themselves out as well.

I’ll never understand the antipathy towards this man. Shame on him that he wanted us all not to have to chose between heating and eating….what an absolute ba**tard !
It's a masonic plot - ask Gerry.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 10:42:39 AM
It's a masonic plot - ask Gerry.

Is he a mason then?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 19, 2022, 10:47:14 AM
Is he a mason then?

You able to tell me?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 10:57:21 AM
Is he a mason then?
see my post above
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 11:00:15 AM
Is it true that masons perform human sacrifice rituals involving young children or am I mixing them up with Satanists?  Or maybe I'm thinking of Socialists?  I forget now...
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 11:24:52 AM
Is it true that masons perform human sacrifice rituals involving young children or am I mixing them up with Satanists?  Or maybe I'm thinking of Socialists?  I forget now...

I think that’s Satanists you’re thinking of. Socialists usually stick to eviscerating capitalists.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 11:30:10 AM
Is he a mason then?

Who?  Jeremy Corbyn?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 11:35:10 AM
I think that’s Satanists you’re thinking of. Socialists usually stick to eviscerating capitalists.
And how's that going?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 11:45:14 AM
And how's that going?

Well, it isn't, is it.  I am a Capitalist with no money at all.  How is Jeremy Corbyn doing?  He is worth way more than I will ever be.  A Socialist with no principles.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 11:52:15 AM
Well, it isn't, is it.  I am a Capitalist with no money at all.  How is Jeremy Corbyn doing?  He is worth way more than I will ever be.  A Socialist with no principles.
Most of the socialists I know enjoy the finer things in life that the bottom feeders aren't able to afford, such as expensive designer handbags for example...  8(0(*
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 19, 2022, 12:03:04 PM
Is it true that masons perform human sacrifice rituals involving young children or am I mixing them up with Satanists?  Or maybe I'm thinking of Socialists?  I forget now...

Masons and illuminati of course
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Myster on August 19, 2022, 12:15:30 PM
Well, it isn't, is it.  I am a Capitalist with no money at all.  How is Jeremy Corbyn doing?  He is worth way more than I will ever be.  A Socialist with no principles.
Quite well it seems... now living in a £925,000 jerry-built, felt-roofed Islington hovel which leaks every 15 years, so probably looking around for a superior stonemason-built manse of equivalent value in Melrand for his retirement.  Any for sale next door?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html)
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 12:30:42 PM
Quite well it seems... now living in a £925,000 jerry-built, felt-roofed Islington hovel which leaks every 15 years, so probably looking around for a superior stonemason-built manse of equivalent value in Melrand for his retirement.  Any for sale next door?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html)
That was 2016 - it must be worth well over a £1m now - amazing what a million doesn't buy you in London these days!
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 01:00:16 PM
Quite well it seems... now living in a £925,000 jerry-built, felt-roofed Islington hovel which leaks every 15 years, so probably looking around for a superior stonemason-built manse of equivalent value in Melrand for his retirement.  Any for sale next door?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html)

Aux Camilia across the road from me isn't for sale for the moment, although it's a bit too Art Nouveau for my taste.  I just feed their cat when they aren't here.

Everyone else around here lives in a stone built hovel.  Some more hovel than others.  But no Felt Roofing.  That would blow away in the next storm.  As no doubt will Jeremy.  Besides which, we already have a Jeremy down the road a bit.  But he is a capitalist.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 01:37:06 PM
And how's that going?

Slowly.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 01:43:54 PM
Quite well it seems... now living in a £925,000 jerry-built, felt-roofed Islington hovel which leaks every 15 years, so probably looking around for a superior stonemason-built manse of equivalent value in Melrand for his retirement.  Any for sale next door?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928436/Was-nuisance-neighbours-Terraced-house-door-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Islington-home-sale-925-000-real-Champagne-socialist-afford-it.html)

A relative of a friend of mine lives in an ex council flat in a block of flats in Camden. The area is so bad that she has iron bars on her door after an attempted burglary but because it’s London the flat is valued at £600,000.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 01:47:44 PM
A relative of a friend of mine lives in an ex council flat in a block of flats in Camden. The area is so bad that she has iron bars on her door after an attempted burglary but because it’s London the flat is valued at £600,000.

Why do people stay in England?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 01:47:53 PM
Aux Camilia across the road from me isn't for sale for the moment, although it's a bit too Art Nouveau for my taste.  I just feed their cat when they aren't here.

Everyone else around here lives in a stone built hovel.  Some more hovel than others.  But no Felt Roofing.  That would blow away in the next storm.  As no doubt will Jeremy.  Besides which, we already have a Jeremy down the road a bit.  But he is a capitalist.

Next year Jeremy Corbyn will have been the MP for Islington North for 40 years. I think it’ll take more than even the strongest storm for him to blow away.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2022, 01:48:35 PM
Why do people stay in England?

To be honest Eleanor I wonder about that sometimes myself.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 01:50:39 PM
Why do people stay in England?
It does make you wonder why so many people are so desperate to come here.  There must be something about this god forsaken hellhole that people find appealing....
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 01:58:11 PM
Next year Jeremy Corbyn will have been the MP for Islington North for 40 years. I think it’ll take more than even the strongest storm for him to blow away.

I don't really care.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 19, 2022, 02:14:45 PM
It does make you wonder why so many people are so desperate to come here.  There must be something about this god forsaken hellhole that people find appealing....

It breaks my heart to see how some people have to live. We are so lucky to live in the UK and always have been. It's certainly not a god forsaken hellhole.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2022, 02:19:36 PM
It breaks my heart to see how some people have to live. We are so lucky to live in the UK and always have been. It's certainly not a god forsaken hellhole.

Try living somewhere else.  And then you might find out.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
It breaks my heart to see how some people have to live. We are so lucky to live in the UK and always have been. It's certainly not a god forsaken hellhole.
My tongue was in my cheek of course.  But things in this country are definitely on a downward trajectory and have been for years, not helped by the pandemic and Brexit of course which have both been hugely damaging.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 19, 2022, 07:47:03 PM
My tongue was in my cheek of course.  But things in this country are definitely on a downward trajectory and have been for years, not helped by the pandemic and Brexit of course which have both been hugely damaging.

The low point was the 1980's imo. Many areas have recovered since then. It was thanks to Brexit that the UK was able to respond to the pandemic quicker than EU countries could.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 08:15:07 PM
The low point was the 1980's imo. Many areas have recovered since then. It was thanks to Brexit that the UK was able to respond to the pandemic quicker than EU countries could.
Very debateable and by every other measure Brexit has been a disaster for trade and for numerous industries and organizations in this country including farming, fishing, social care, travel, the NHS etc etc etc etc. But at least we have our sovereignty and our blue passports so all good.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/03/spiralling-inflation-crops-left-in-the-field-and-travel-chaos-10-reasons-brexit-has-been-disastrous-for-britain

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2022, 08:54:35 PM
I know Brexit supporters aren’t keen on facts but here’s some about the vaccine rollout for you to ignore, as is your wont.

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: barrier on August 21, 2022, 11:13:09 AM
Was/is  GM a devout Catholic, Freemasonry and Catholicism don't go hand in hand.


https://catholicherald.co.uk/the-real-reason-catholics-cant-be-freemasons/
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on August 21, 2022, 11:25:45 AM
Was/is  GM a devout Catholic, Freemasonry and Catholicism don't go hand in hand.


https://catholicherald.co.uk/the-real-reason-catholics-cant-be-freemasons/

Historically perhaps but I have a friend who is a Catholic and a mason.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2022, 01:03:25 PM
Historically perhaps but I have a friend who is a Catholic and a mason.

Insurance for this life and beyond?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2022, 02:00:31 PM
Does the protection of your brother mason extend to also covering for his non-masonic wife?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 21, 2022, 02:35:50 PM
Was/is  GM a devout Catholic, Freemasonry and Catholicism don't go hand in hand.


https://catholicherald.co.uk/the-real-reason-catholics-cant-be-freemasons/

Maybe not from the church but fine with masonry
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 27, 2022, 08:24:42 AM
Does the protection of your brother mason extend to also covering for his non-masonic wife?

“I will support you in all your laudable undertakings”

Not quite the protection some assume.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 27, 2022, 09:01:01 AM
Insurance for this life and beyond?

Visit you're local lodge. Have a chat.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 27, 2022, 09:57:11 AM
Visit you're local lodge. Have a chat.

I have zero interest in anything that involves joining, apart from a couple of forums. I'm a member of nothing, be it a political party, a religion or whatever.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on August 27, 2022, 01:30:40 PM
I have zero interest in anything that involves joining, apart from a couple of forums. I'm a member of nothing, be it a political party, a religion or whatever.

I certainly was not tagging for you to join lol. But to get more of an understanding. Might help you comment with better creed.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on August 27, 2022, 04:32:44 PM
I certainly was not tagging for you to join lol. But to get more of an understanding. Might help you comment with better creed.

Well I don't think people join because they're stone masons. I think they join because they think it will benefit them in some way. What else do I need to understand?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2022, 04:44:33 PM
Well I don't think people join because they're stone masons. I think they join because they think it will benefit them in some way. What else do I need to understand?

The good they endeavour to do.  But they don't talk about it a lot.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 27, 2022, 05:25:20 PM
I have zero interest in anything that involves joining, apart from a couple of forums. I'm a member of nothing, be it a political party, a religion or whatever.
Not even the Tufty Club?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: The General on September 25, 2022, 12:02:06 AM
The good they endeavour to do.  But they don't talk about it a lot.
Such as?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on September 27, 2022, 06:57:28 PM
Such as?

Charity work, helping others.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: The General on September 27, 2022, 07:23:34 PM
Charity work, helping others.
Ahh, yes, the old 'charidee work'.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on September 27, 2022, 07:47:55 PM
Ahh, yes, the old 'charidee work'.

Quite impressive really, although it does derive from the home office.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: The General on September 27, 2022, 07:50:16 PM
Quite impressive really, although it does derive from the home office.
You seem to be speaking from experience, is yer arl gadgee one of those, like, mabeez from the shipyards, like?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on September 27, 2022, 07:54:44 PM
You seem to be speaking from experience, is yer arl gadgee one of those, like, mabeez from the shipyards, like?

I was one. Why i started the thread. Good laugh. Its amazing what the police can help you with and what jobs you can land. Why it went secret cos davey icke was onto everyone.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: The General on September 27, 2022, 07:57:45 PM
I was one. Why i started the thread. Good laugh. Its amazing what the police can help you with and what jobs you can land. Why it went secret cos davey icke was onto everyone.
Nowt wrong with a bit of mutual back scratching.
You were one? I thought it was like the Cosa Nostra and nobody left, unless it was in a box?
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on September 27, 2022, 08:08:17 PM

Oh God, not another load of old rubbish.  My half brother was a grand master somewhere or another but he couldn't have stitched up anyone.  He just wasn't bright enough.  Dear of him.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on September 27, 2022, 11:14:26 PM
Well I don't think people join because they're stone masons. I think they join because they think it will benefit them in some way. What else do I need to understand?

I think some join cos it is quite a posh club and gives them access to even posher people.   A status symbol.   A bit like the Golf Club or the Polo Club.

That isn't true of everybody tho. and I agree with Gunit (a first?) when she says that they join because they think it will benefit them in some way.  Also at a certain age * it is also the done thing to do *, cos their friends are joining.

The Masons were very kind to my daughter when she ran the London Marathan in aid of CLIC (Malcolm Sargeant Cancer fund for Children).   IIRC, they contributed £600 which was a lot of money about 25 years ago.   I thank them for that.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on September 27, 2022, 11:51:51 PM
I think some join cos it is quite a posh club and gives them access to even posher people.   A status symbol.   A bit like the Golf Club or the Polo Club.

That isn't true of everybody tho. and I agree with Gunit (a first?) when she says that they join because they think it will benefit them in some way.  Also at a certain age * it is also the done thing to do *, cos their friends are joining.

The Masons were very kind to my daughter when she ran the London Marathan in aid of CLIC (Malcolm Sargeant Cancer fund for Children).   IIRC, they contributed £600 which was a lot of money about 25 years ago.   I thank them for that.

Sadie, it really isn't that important.  It was always apparent in my young life but just a big boys gang.  My Daddy wasn't having it, but my brother eventually did, although God alone knows to what purpose.
I very much doubt that they did any harm.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: sadie on September 28, 2022, 01:27:08 AM
Sadie, it really isn't that important.  It was always apparent in my young life but just a big boys gang.  My Daddy wasn't having it, but my brother eventually did, although God alone knows to what purpose.
I very much doubt that they did any harm.

Not at the lower levels anyhow, but am not so sure higher up the pyramid at the Illuminati level

Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on September 28, 2022, 02:05:55 AM
Not at the lower levels anyhow, but am not so sure higher up the pyramid at the Illuminati level

My brother couldn't illuminate anything, dear of him.  And he was a Grand Master.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: barrier on September 28, 2022, 09:32:36 AM
My brother couldn't illuminate anything, dear of him.  And he was a Grand Master.

My eldest brother could illuminate anything, he was a master piss head.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: G-Unit on September 28, 2022, 10:08:25 AM
My brother couldn't illuminate anything, dear of him.  And he was a Grand Master.

I thought the Grand Master was the Duke of Kent.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on September 29, 2022, 04:30:46 PM
Nowt wrong with a bit of mutual back scratching.
You were one? I thought it was like the Cosa Nostra and nobody left, unless it was in a box?

Nah, it would not. Carpenter gets asked to a 150k Barclays director job. Just unreal benefits.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on September 30, 2022, 08:22:41 AM
Not at the lower levels anyhow, but am not so sure higher up the pyramid at the Illuminati level

It is a common misconception that a title at the lodge and the lodge only means anything of value on public life. It means zilch. Its based on something over hu dreds of years ago. Its art in essence not to be taken seriously as if you were in charge of a country. A joiner can be a grand master it just means you head the meetings, a ceo could just join. But am sure that ceo has more influence in public life.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on September 30, 2022, 08:44:46 AM
I think some join cos it is quite a posh club and gives them access to even posher people.   A status symbol.   A bit like the Golf Club or the Polo Club.

That isn't true of everybody tho. and I agree with Gunit (a first?) when she says that they join because they think it will benefit them in some way.  Also at a certain age * it is also the done thing to do *, cos their friends are joining.

The Masons were very kind to my daughter when she ran the London Marathan in aid of CLIC (Malcolm Sargeant Cancer fund for Children).   IIRC, they contributed £600 which was a lot of money about 25 years ago.   I thank them for that.

Certainly isnt posh lol. But its good they helped your daughter.
However, i cant see any evidence gerry is a freemason neither anyone of the masons got him off the hook. Peoples imaginations.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on September 30, 2022, 05:05:13 PM
I thought the Grand Master was the Duke of Kent.

Then you don't know much about The Free Masions.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: faithlilly on September 30, 2022, 06:41:44 PM
Then you don't know much about The Free Masions.

I believe Gunit is correct.

https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/kent/the-duke-of-kent-celebrates-55-years-of-being-a-freemason-113056/
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Eleanor on September 30, 2022, 07:07:48 PM
I believe Gunit is correct.

https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/kent/the-duke-of-kent-celebrates-55-years-of-being-a-freemason-113056/

The Free Masons are all nuts.  Been there and done that for most of my life.  Just don't treat me like a fool.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 07, 2022, 03:51:55 PM
The Free Masons are all nuts.  Been there and done that for most of my life.  Just don't treat me like a fool.

If you don’t want treating like a fool….

The Duke of Kent is the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, the Grand Lodge of Scotland and the Grand Lodge of Ireland have their own Grand Masters. Individual Lodges have a Worshipful Master.
Title: Re: Gerry Mccann a freemason?
Post by: Rossb on October 07, 2022, 08:33:47 PM
If you don’t want treating like a fool….

The Duke of Kent is the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, the Grand Lodge of Scotland and the Grand Lodge of Ireland have their own Grand Masters. Individual Lodges have a Worshipful Master.

Could you expand please. But expand on the thread Gerry being a mason and help from brothers